← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:00]
Scott
Morning everybody. Welcome to crypto town hall. Happy Wednesday. We are here every single weekday 10:15am Eastern Standard Time. Bitcoin continuing to push upward. Yesterday having once again after doing the same on Sunday having its highly day highest daily close ever. Sunday was the highest weekly close ever. So right now Bitcoin up about 2.77% trading at $107,535. Most of the major large cap altcoins up about the same. So not necessarily suffering versus bitcoin, but certainly not in a period right now where they are wildly outperforming. Here we go. Bitcoin prints highest daily candle ever. New one today. I have no idea. Dave, I know you have to leave us pretty soon so love for you to jump in here, we can get this started. Talk about what's happening here at Bitcoin.
- [00:58]
Dave
Yeah, look, there's, there's irresistible force meets a movable object there. I read a couple things over the, you know, last couple days. People doing on chain analysis saying that, you know, older OG Bitcoin guys selling at 100k, we know the buyers have been mostly, you know, large, large pools of capital who have a holding period that's long. I thought that Eric Balconis made the, the most important point. Everyone who looked at basis trade this, that, fuck that. He basically showed that IBIT is one of the is in the top five of ETFs. Full stop. Not.
- [01:37]
Scott
And where was gold, Dave? Where was gold was number 14.
- [01:42]
Dave
And the reason that's funny for those of you don't get the inside joke is that I had to listen to for two weeks Mike McGlone prattling on about how gold was about to reverse Bitcoin again and be in the ascendancy and get more money coming in. Come on, you know, gold is a mature asset. Gold is almost 20, you know, $22 trillion, 90% of which. And I, and for those who want to understand the math, I actually posted all the math this morning on a post. 90% of gold's 22 trillion is from monetary use. Not jewelry, not the small industrial use, whatever. Assuming Bitcoin has no use, which of course is not true. Bitcoin has significant utility for incentivizing energy, rescuing standard energy, et cetera. But just assuming it is no utility, that puts bitcoin when it reaches parity with gold at somewhere around $950,000 per coin. And that's in 20, $25. And we haven't even gotten into talking about what's going to happen from here in terms of the big beautiful bill, which isn't going to cut anything. And so people who thought austerity was coming are realizing, wait a minute, maybe we need to be a bit more aggressive in accumulating Bitcoin. And I think that's exactly what's happening. I think that these, the, the selling is slowing. And, you know, I made a joke a few weeks ago, Scott, remember that? I said, hey, maybe we'll never be able to buy bitcoin under a hundred thousand again. It's still unlikely to be true. It's still somewhat joking, but it's getting, you know, it's getting closer to what seems to be reality. Until the next big, you know, dump, which might be from 200, it might be from, who knows what it will be from, but the next big dump, who knows, we'll get a candle that might pierce it. But it looks like there's plenty of demand here, and that's what we're seeing. And even though this morning, I didn't check now, but earlier when bitcoin first got up over, in fact, it's still true. Risk assets today are having kind of a crappy day. I mean, NASDAQ is flat. Russell's down close to a percent. The S& P is down a bit, and bitcoin is ramping. So this narrative of bitcoin as a risk asset, when that finally collapses, that's when you're going to get the, that you're going to look at that point. FOMO is going to be setting in. And we haven't had any fomo.
- [03:53]
Scott
I mean, on Monday we looked at it. But if you looked at credit default swaps lately, the market's certainly not thinking that the United States is going into austerity and going to be fiscally responsible.
- [04:05]
Dave
No, of course not, because we can't. Our political system is so screwed up. I mean, look, we. The stablecoin bill is a perfect example. Yes, we got the Klotcher vote, and if those don't change, it will get passed. But the banking lobby is effectively capable of convincing 40 senators that it's okay for the banks to be subsidized by over $20 billion a year that could be going to their depositors in interest. It's okay for that to happen. It's okay for them to get paid their bonuses, and it's okay for the government to provide insurance for the extra risk that the banking system needs because of the way that they handle fractional reserv.
- [04:45]
Scott
You.
- [04:46]
Dave
If you could convince 40 senators of that, how hard is it going to be. You know, just think about that now. How hard is it going to be for those same senators to be able to cut something that might bother their constituents? The answer is when it's other people's money, people like to spend it, and it's really, really hard to do anything about it. And so that's what's going on.
- [05:03]
Scott
Yeah, I just actually put in the nest above Austin Campbell, who's friend of the show, obviously here all the time. His amazing tweet about what you just described. I'm assuming that's what even made you think about it, because I. Yeah, Austin.
- [05:19]
Dave
And I being, you know, center right versus center left, but we. We realize we agree on about 80 to 90% of all issues. You know, it doesn't matter, you know, what. What our registrations are. And. And that's really the point. I mean, this is something that, you know, we are all in crypto. This is crypto town hall. Why are we in crypto? People will hate to admit the first one. The first one is we're in crypto to make money. Okay, cool. But the other thing is, we want. We're in CR because we believe it's a better way forward. Yes, Many of us can't stand the grift that happens, and we don't like when we see bad things and bad actors and it gets us pissed off. But ultimately, it's a more inclusive system that is more competitive system that provides more power to the user than to the central oligopolistic companies in the financial markets and in other verticals as well. And that's a perfect example of that. But if you want to know why bitcoin is rising, Bitcoin is rallying because it's the best asymmetric bet people can make. You want to why all coins are rising because they're drafting off of bitcoin at the same time. People understand that basic narrative. And so, yeah, that's what I think this morning. I mean, am I getting excited?
- [06:26]
Scott
No.
- [06:26]
Dave
I mean, it's not fomo. This is a mild move. This is a hated rally. It's exactly what we want to have happen. We want it to grind higher.
- [06:34]
Scott
So, Bracey, good to see you. I think I just saw you in Dubai for about five minutes. I saw you somewhere recently in person. You're obviously, as CEO of Bitget, you can track what behavior you're seeing from traders. Dave's actually been pointing out pretty frequently that the bitcoin move to the Upside has really been driven by spot, just people buying spot and not really crazy funding rates or anything crazy on the derivative side. Is that what you're seeing at Bitget?
- [07:04]
Bracey
Well, yeah.
- [07:05]
Gary
Again, very, very happy to see you again, Scott. And by the way, I'm also in London now, so get to travel a lot recently and talking to. Always, always traveling.
- [07:18]
Scott
I think I've seen you everywhere. Every time I've traveled, I've seen you.
- [07:21]
Gary
Yeah, a little bit too much travel though. So I get to hear lots of experts from various industries, especially Tradfi and within our crypto industry. But back to your question. While running a crypto exchange, we actually see both gains from derivative side and spot side. So the fact that Biget were pretty strong on derivatives since 2018 when we started and we just grow our spot market about two years ago by having more listing strategy, very good on chain offering to our users, especially this year. So I wouldn't say that what we see is that spot is just like leading everything then derivative. We do see growth from both sides, but I think that might be biased due to, you know, who we are and what we're good at.
- [08:17]
Scott
Yeah, that, that makes sense. I guess. Then the next question is when we see these sort of lower funding rates, does it mean that there's no major consensus or just like huge FOMO in the market that would be driving everybody in one direction? Because it seems pretty even.
- [08:34]
Gary
Yeah, I agree on that. Though if we look at bitcoin price when it was 75k, which was just slightly more than a month ago, at that time we see a much clearer direction. Everyone especially who are more like traders and experts do think that's very much like the bottom that we see in this cycle, which I personally agree. I also bought lots of bitcoin that day. So glad that I did that.
- [09:03]
Scott
Me too.
- [09:05]
Gary
Kudos to that. So at that time the direction was much clearer. But Once Bitcoin surpassed 100k, which is, you know, psychologically a very important point since last time, like the all time high was pretty much here. We never really, you know, surpass 110k which again we see lots of resistance now. So the in terms of funding rate and we measure, you know, direction and how people think about the market. I think right now it's much more vague. There are slightly selling pressure, especially from the OGs who holds lots of Bitcoin from early days versus lots of institutional adoption. So one interesting data I want to point out is that if we look at Google search on bitcoin right now, it's actually at a five year low point in 21 May ish. It was like 100 in terms of the Google index and now it's only 25. So as a comparison bitcoin price is at its all time high, very much like the all time high but the interest from the retail side is actually pretty low. So I think that also points out to the fact that the current adoption is very much driven by institutional and also national adoptions like us passing bitcoin as part of strategic reserve as well as some states and some other nations versus just retail users buying the previous cycle that we saw.
- [10:39]
Scott
Yeah, we keep discussing this narrative that the OG whales are selling. What do you make of them deciding to sell at. At this point? Don't usually we. I mean maybe they're just funding their lifestyle. It's a great price they've been in since it's pennies so it makes a lot of sense. But it seems when you see it as a trend it's worth watching.
- [10:58]
Gary
Yeah. Why they are selling? I. I would say people. There are still people who think that bitcoin will just act as the four year cycle as we. However I don't really agree on that. I think like I said right now it's largely driven by M2 supply and institutional adoption which doesn't really care about the four year cycle as we did before previously bitcoin price was largely affected by mining which will be affected by the four year cycle. So I think this is a mindset shift. And also within the past two years, one or two years after the ETF was approved in the US by cc, we also kind of see this shift from Again the previous OGs Wells retails to institutions. So it's a shift of users and adoption that we are seeing and I kind of see this becoming a shift. Part is very much towards the end. Lots of users exiting or have exited in terms of retail users and lots of institutions are coming in. And another data I want to share, as you know I'm a statistics person. Another data I want to share is that in the US sorry in the world that by end of 2024 there are actually 75 public companies in the world including US, Canada, Japan, various jurisdictions who holds Bitcoin as part of their companies reserve. And we are seeing a lot more companies doing that this year. Just like Microstrategy which everyone you know respected. Michael Saylor, we think he's a little bit crazy buying a lot. But also what he has been doing for the past few years after the pandemic is a miracle which I have to admit and Lots of other companies using SPAC ETF also trying to mimic that.
- [13:08]
Scott
I guess what, since I have you, one last question before we kind of go to the rest of the panel. What kind of behavior are you seeing in bitcoin versus Altcoins right now? Because I, I mean anecdotally this move we saw sort of from the mid-90s on Bitcoin up to where we are now. Actually as big as it was, it was the first time in many years really that altcoins performed stronger sort of on that move, you know, bitcoin dominance went down, bitcoin price went up. So what do you make of sort of that interplay between bitcoin and right now the altcoin market? Does that indicate maybe there's actually new money coming in or there's more speculative interest? How are you viewing that?
- [13:45]
Gary
Well, from a larger aspect in terms of the whole industry, I think bitcoin is very much dominating. And since there's mainly institutional adoptions coming in, they are comfortable holding, you know, btc, Eth, Solana, but they may even not feel comfortable holding Trump, Memecoin and a lot more other coins. So from the general perspective, I would say we still see a lot more trends in terms of bitcoin dominating the user's interest and users attention. However, since I'm running a Centrix exchange which offer more than 700 tokens in the world, we are not an ETF provider. We are not also we don't have like a listed company, spac, et cetera. So we are still targeting mainly retail users and from their behavior, they are very much interested in altcoin and we are probably one of the major altcoin exchanges providers in terms of that. Again, I think this data is biased. That's why I kind of want to divide that into two categories. Like if we look at the industry as a whole or if we look at the centralized exchange change business as itself.
- [15:02]
Scott
That's really interesting. But you know, we don't often get the perspective from CEO of a centralized exchange to share it with us. So I think that that's really valuable even if it's not necessarily reflective of the entire market. So interesting to hear what you're seeing there. I would love the rest of the panel as well, feelings on bitcoin's current price where we are now. I think we have this split and Gracie said it even anecdotally from what they're seeing on the, on the exchange. But I think there's a lot of people saying, hey, we're going straight to 150 here. It's pressing up against resistance and then flip side, people saying we're at resistance. This thing's about to drop. Right. So it's one of those moments where it feels very 5050 in sentiment. Mark, go ahead. And then Joe, I think I saw you lift your mic as well. So after. Mark, go ahead. Mark.
- [15:47]
Mark
Hey, hey sky, thanks and thank.
- [15:49]
Scott
We got you up here.
- [15:51]
Mark
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Grace, thank thanks for that insight on the retail side. So I'd like to share sort of a barbell approach from my aspect more on the institutional side. That's where I grew up and now I'm speaking to both, you know, the registered investment advisor community but also traveling. I'm here in Texas following a couple of events that Adam Back's group is hosting and the one comment I'll say is, you know, Adam Back, one of the nine people mentioned in the bitcoin white paper, in my opinion, incredible guy. He knows what he's doing. He's been in space. It's drawing like as if there was a minor league baseball player coming to town. It's still not getting the throngs. So we are still early in that realm when we're hitting major cities and you're getting real people in the room but they're only like five or six managing directors from banks or it's not drawing everybody. So it's growing but it's totally not there. On the other side, Bitcoin is dug in in my opinion like a Georgia tick into our system now. And I think the, the, the most impactful statement came from Bessant on Sunday. I don't know if you guys saw that Jake Tapper interview. And Dave, I don't know if he's still on the, on the call here, but anyone who ever managed or risk managed to a institutional portfolio. When you have a portfolio manager come in your office and say I just inherited a portfolio, which is what Besson said, I inherited a 6.7% deficit. His words. I just inherited that. I think instead of trying to reduce it, which is what you want to hear out of your portfolio manager, I have a problem, things are not going great. I want to reduce my risk. He said I want to gross up. We're going to grow our gdp. He is hammered down, deficit's getting bigger, GDP is going to try to grow his way out of the debt. That is I think one of the top three statements I've heard out of an official that has a decades long implication. So I don't know the near term directions to the team here about where bitcoin's going. But you know, use leverage at your own peril in bitcoin. But hold on. Because it has a ratchet one way. Scott, I think given what Bessem said and the realities of the debt.
- [18:13]
Scott
Yeah, I agree with that. Joe, did you have a comment? And then after Joe, David Garrity for sure.
- [18:19]
Bracey
Yeah, morning Scott. And yeah, I think we gotta. Gracie, we gotta get your data updated. We can't just use Google search. You gotta use Lunar Crush data and understand how many people are talking about bitcoin on social. But the sentiment's still right. We are seeing a all time interim low of how many people about bitcoin and specifically Altcoin. Don't want to go down the meme rabbit hole but it's absolutely silent over there right now compared to where the market is at, which is pretty incredible to, to be honest. And then, you know, looking at bitcoin treasuries, it's a great point, right? Three or four people at the market. You're holding bitcoin now you have 400 public companies.
- [19:02]
Scott
Hey Joe, your mic is super glitchy. Can we bring you down and up? I can't hear what you're saying, unfortunately, is that for everyone else it might just be on my end, but I think it could be me.
- [19:12]
Bracey
I'll try, Scott, thanks.
- [19:13]
Scott
Yeah, okay David, go ahead and then we'll bring Joe down and up. Yeah, I just wanted to dovetail on the remarks about Scott Bessant. There is a G7 finance ministers meeting this week up in Canada and you know, if Bessant wants to try to grow the economy, it seems to be part of the policy of the administration to talk down the dollar. And the dollar on its own has been at like 20 year high levels previously weakening during the early days of the administration. I think it's got further to go. One might argue, you know, dollar hedges historically would be seen as perhaps being gold. Obviously this is the time for bitcoin to actually walk, you know, move into that space as well. So I think in terms of the call being up and to the right, can't disagree at all. I actually think it's better for positioning. Yeah. Florian, where do you stand on the current bitcoin price action? Where it's at, as usual. Go ahead, Florian. Yeah, just want to make sure we can hear you. Yeah, thanks for having me again. Well, I think it looks all pretty, pretty promising here. As you know, seasonality should be good into mid June.
- [20:27]
Dave
I would say so I think we're.
- [20:29]
Gary
Going to see a new all time.
- [20:30]
Scott
High rather sooner than later. And my price target, best case 125 is I would say that's the target out of this big cup and handle pattern. And then we should get a summer doldrums pullback towards September, October and then into the last quarter. Yeah, I guess the, the, the grand finale of this cycle. So that's my take right now. Just trying to get Joe back on stage. I mato. I can't hear either because, because it's X. Joe, go ahead, try again. Can anybody hear Joe or is this just a game of testing one? There you are. I mean it's almost. Sometimes I wonder, sometimes I wonder if it's the tech or if you guys just like have a call right before to fuck with me.
- [21:26]
Bracey
Yeah, whenever you close and open the app too, it messes with it. So it's like you can't check anything else. You have to just be completely focused on this space when you're on here. So that's what you got to do.
- [21:36]
Scott
Yeah, it's basically like you guys all get together and say hey, we're going to not answer anything Scott says. Just as many awkward silences as possible. Okay, go ahead. Your mic sounds right.
- [21:44]
Bracey
Sorry about that. Yeah, I mean something that's interesting that we're looking at too is a lot of people are, you know, it's all about bitcoin right now and Bitcoin, treasury companies and sovereign entities. Everyone's buying bitcoin and everyone said, oh, there's not going to be this rotation into altcoins. Bitcoin Treasuries is everything but lo and behold, bitcoin being up 30 to 40% in the last month, Ethereum's now up almost 60% in the last 15, 16 days. And we are going to see some sort of rotation into the rest of the market. It's adding might seem small to a lot of institutional folks, but adding 160 to $180 billion in market cap to Ethereum is a pretty big impact, can have a pretty big impact on the rest of the market and the rest of the utility tokens that are going to be launched. And it's a lot of money locked and loaded with really interesting, a lot of cool startups that are going to be coming out. A lot of stuff we're seeing on gaming, a lot of stuff is focused on Bitcoin specific technology and payments. You're going to see as bitcoin gets adopted more, you're Going to see cool technologies come out around payments. Lightning Network is out there. We're seeing some fast food chains adopting that and people are going to be able to pay in bitcoin and they're going to start bypassing this other fiat system pretty easily and utilizing stablecoins, utilizing Bitcoin specific. Gemini launched a credit card, get 4% back on Bitcoin. You're going to see the integrations happening where people are just going to tap their phone and pay with Bitcoin. They're going to pay with Ethereum, they're going to be able to pay with 10,000 other different cryptocurrencies. And that's a really interesting place for the technology adoption that everyone keeps having questions about. You know these are all things that it's kind of all things that like tried to be launched 4 or 5 but the adoption isn't there. But now we're actually seeing the adoption happening.
- [23:36]
Scott
Yeah, your mic was starting to glitch there. Yeah at the end but we caught all of it. But I actually something just you made me think of this. It's kind of not directly related but something I hadn't even seen it. Now it's A friend of a friend of mine uses Robinhood as his main platform for effectively everything. I guess taxes just rolled around and he looked at his account and he's holding, you know, multimillion dollar portfolio we'll say but primarily crypto, primarily spot crypto, a lot of mining stocks and then maybe 40% of it, other securities. And he was able to take a cash out margin loan at sub 5% for the entirety of his tax bill against actually his spot crypto holdings on Robinhood. And I was, had zero idea that that was possible on Robinhood now. And he said they just launch that. I haven't seen the announcement about that. I haven't seen that mentioned. But we sit here talking all the time about like what if you were on Schwab and you could just put your bitcoin holdings on Schwab and like the rest of your portfolio take a margin port. And this isn't even just like margin on the platform. He was literally able to take the cash out, pay his taxes. Then everything went up 25% right after he did that. He paid back the loan, had profit and his taxes were paid.
- [24:54]
Bracey
There's too much news, you can't, there's too much happening where you can't keep track of it. I mean even some of the defi protocols, I mean that's been possible for a long time. You just had to make one more little jump right back through a stable coin to fiat. Robinhood's going to make it a lot easier, but the adoption is coming. Once the banks let you hold Bitcoin, that option is going to be there. They're eventually going to let you hold a lot of the altcoins, especially some of the more decentralized ones. You can take margin out there. It's just going to happen.
- [25:22]
Scott
Robinhood is a bank. That was the news last month. Robinhood Bank. Right. That was effectively missed. Coinbase obviously is going for a banking charter. I mean, this is the absolute future, is that this just becomes a part of your overall portfolio that you can use in all the ways that people, especially wealthy people, have used to, you know, be tax efficient and move their money and grow it in the past. Mark, go ahead.
- [25:48]
Mark
Hey, Scott. Yeah, I was saying that is the financialization of Bitcoin is, you know, something that, you know, Maxis are a little nervous about, etc. It's going to happen. And it's one reason why people say, you know, not your keys, not your coins and hold your Bitcoin because eventually you can borrow against it and move it and you can't do that with an ETF as easily. And what you're saying now is that if you have that ETF at Robinhood, you can borrow against it.
- [26:16]
Scott
It wasn't even etf, Mark. It was a spot Bitcoin on Robinhood.
- [26:21]
Mark
That's awesome. At sub 5.
- [26:26]
Scott
I asked him, he's actually getting it for me. He said he didn't really look. I was wondering what the breakdown was on the interest rates on the different assets in the portfolio. But he said that more than 50% of his assets were spot crypto assets. And this is anecdotal, so I'm going to get the evidence. But still, absolutely crazy to me that he was able to do that. And it was about, I think, you know, it's about 50% of his portfolio he was able to take. So I mean it's, it's wild that.
- [26:52]
Mark
Yeah, that's just going to, you know, people say spend Bitcoin because that's good borrowing. That's a buy, borrow, die. Yeah, that's that, right? Well, not much I can say after that, Scott. That's exactly the answer. And one, one other anecdote is, you know, we all talk to our friends normies about bitcoin, etc. One of my good friends said, Yeah, I bought two. I'm like, that's awesome. You bought two Bitcoin went, you know, and he didn't. He bought $2 million worth. The other two, like the other two.
- [27:24]
Bracey
The other two.
- [27:25]
Mark
And he said when it went down to 75, I got a little. So now you have normies who took a 30% or, you know, they've already endured it over the last little while. So I'm very constructive again on that barbell approach. Like Grace was saying, retail's in. If you make it easy for me to borrow against it. They've endured a drawdown. We're going higher from here. It's a pretty constructive environment. I just as. Who said it's the news. There's too much news. I don't know. I think that was.
- [27:51]
Scott
Joe jumped in and said there's too much news. It's true. I mean, you can't keep up with what these platforms are doing. I mean, somehow. It was only our topic for like 20 minutes that JP Morgan is opening Bitcoin trading to 90 million customers.
- [28:02]
Mark
Customers, yeah.
- [28:06]
Scott
Well, always begrudgingly, but they love money. Gary, you had your hand up. Go ahead.
- [28:12]
Joe
Yeah. I love the comment Mark made about the tick, the Georgia tick. The analogy I use, you know, when I met you, Scott, three or so years ago, the analogy I use is, oh, bitcoin's like mercury. It's going to find every big crevice crack and inefficient margin that's being, you know, taken by a monopoly construct and it's going to eat it up. And that is exactly what's happening. This lending thing, I've been shopping these lending rates around for 12 months. I have literally seen rates go from 15 from a Bitcoin company. I just said, don't ever call me again. Your offer is so antithetical against bitcoin. It's like, it's so obscene. 15%. I'm now getting rates below 8 and everything you guys are saying is it's 5 and 6 and this is most certainly happening. We're at 107, 800. Meta Planet had a 50% move today. They're trading at 53.54 move today, they're trading at what, 12, $11. Saw 12 print. You know, there is so much news here and I don't think anyone's in this. I think there's a lot of players to your point, Scott. Hey, he bought two. Or whoever shared that story. I'm hearing that story all the time. Yeah, I put 40 to about 40. It's like 40 million. That was his first entry. 400 million, you know, billionaire. So my brother's Sitting there, he's going to do 13 of these funds. He's gonna have to buy a thousand bitcoin at some point, you know, and he's just seen a 30 move against him. So that's wild. We are living in the middle of history and this is happening right now. The tick is so buried in this is the greatest Trojan horse story in probably 4,000 years. It's just amazing. So thank you for letting me share.
- [30:19]
Scott
Yeah, I agree. And Gary, to your point, the crypto, and I guess we'll call them crypto native even though they're bitcoin native. But bitcoin lending, from what I've seen, primarily the ones I've talked to and I've tested it actually primarily it's your bitcoin gets converted to wrapped bitcoin and then it goes into defi. Right AAVE or some secure kind of OG protocol for the safer ones. When you go from that and even at 7, 8% that's good, but regardless, the platform may not have counterparty risk, but you always have some sort of defi or smart contract risk. I'm not saying that's not worth taking, but it's there when you're on Robin Hood or Schwab and it's just bundled with the rest of your portfolio at sub 5%. You're. I don't know what they're doing with it precisely. I can't tell you what they're doing with the spot bitcoin or, or doing it, but seems like a safer bet in the legacy system even than probably being, you know, on one of the native platforms. I'm wondering how they actually, you know, are able to do the lending on that, on, on a Robinhood or something similar. I'm a tail. Go ahead.
- [31:25]
Ryan
Yeah, I just love these comments. I, I think in the short term, you know, as we push through all time highs, we'll, we'll get a big push up and then we'll get one of your classic bearish divergences, Scott. But I don't think it's going to be much for a long term time frame now. Yeah, exactly. So I mean I, I think we're, we're starting to print that in which will cause a little bit of a correction and we'll probably get a lot of noise that the top is in and I just don't think the top is in. I don't think anyone here thinks the top is in. The headlines definitely don't communicate that. Another piece of news that had happened was that Bybit was getting approved to allow equity trading with usdt. And I think ultimately what we're going to start to see is just this embedded element of where Bitcoin becomes hyper fungible with all the other assets. And then we get real world assets come on chain and then you have this, an actual commodity that is digital, that is secure, that replaces gold, that can be borrowed against, that can actually be leveraged into the rest of the economy. That's just remarkable. And when you look at the BTC market cycle ROI from the bottom, one of my favorite charts into the cryptoverse chart, we're way under trend. And even if you assume diminishing returns with how much liquidity it takes to move this thing, it just shows that we have such a long way to go before we start to print a top here in this cycle. I don't think the headlines are slowing down. I don't think the integrations of bitcoin into the global economy is slowing down. And certainly corporations, sovereign wealth funds acquiring isn't slowing down either.
- [33:11]
Scott
I mean as you're talking I'm really quickly scanning through the news headlines in our, in our group and I had to the point of there's so much news that we can't even keep up with it. There's things in here that I literally had no idea had even happened that in and of themselves in a vacuum or two years ago would have been massive stories. For example, according to a recent portfolio filing, Blackstone's alternative Multi Strategy Fund disclosed holding 23,094 shares of IBIT. This marks the first time Blackstone has publicly reported a bitcoin related position. I did not see that. We've barely even been talking about the fact that the Texas House of Representatives has passed the strategic Bitcoin reserve bill at its second reading. We've obviously talked about Arizona and New Hampshire, but Texas very, very close to getting this done. And then I don't know if you saw Vivek Ramaswamy's Strive plans to establish a bitcoin reserve by acquiring 75,000 bitcoins. That's $8 billion from claims related to the Mt. Gox bankruptcy. So this is Strive obviously trying to compete as a bitcoin treasury company but finding a more, I guess, novel or interesting way to gain that exposure than just through the debt offerings that we've seen from others. I mean this news is crazy. Blackstone. Did anybody even see that? Blackstone news.
- [34:29]
Bracey
This thing's embedded deeper than Georgia Tech.
- [34:31]
Scott
Scott, that is a Georgia tick the size of a Godzilla.
- [34:35]
Bracey
I'm Using that, by the way, Mark, I'm sending that to a bunch of CEO banks in, in Georgia this afternoon. I'm using that line.
- [34:42]
Mark
Good.
- [34:47]
Scott
There you go. 1084. I wonder what alternate expression might be dug in deeper than a chigger as opposed to a Georgia tick. We talk about chiggers a lot more in Florida, to be honest. Yeah, but yeah, chiggers. I haven't heard those mentioned in quite a while. But this is, I mean this, I think that really is just a huge story right now. The velocity of news and that there's no way to keep up.
- [35:12]
Mark
Yep. And, and Scott, on that point about Vivex buying of the Mt. Gox paper at a discount back in 23 Fir Tree, you know, wrote something out against GBTC. They were buying this stuff at a discount. They were trying to force a, you know, a collapse of the discount. A lot of folks bought all those claims out of the Celsius stuff. So Wall street started getting involved in 23 through the distress guys because distress guys, I go, I don't know what freaking Celsius does, but once it goes through a bankruptcy claim court and goes into their process, then they can see it in that language. So you have these firms like Blackstone, other ones, they've been doing work for years because their turnaround groups got involved through the distress process in the last winter. So now when summer comes, it'll go to the liquid folks, to the current guys, they'll pass along the information. So it's already in the system through the distressed cycle. So this is phenomenal. So it's news, but it actually has been happening for a few years.
- [36:15]
Scott
Yeah, I mean, there's a guest we have quite often, Thomas Brazil, who's been here and specializes in those bankruptcy claims and they just absolutely cleaned up on those FTX claims because if you remember in the early days of the FTX claims and to your point, it was a lot of institutions that cleaned up as well. Those things were selling for, I think less than 10 cents on the dollar. You know, before Anthropic and before they got, you know, managed to find, you know, $8 billion and all the investments went well and Solana obviously went up. I mean, those claims ended up paying at par or something and they were buying up 10 cents on the dollar.
- [36:53]
Mark
Yeah. So Wall street, the distressed guys bought those claims at 10 cents on. They got paid out, you know, 10 times their money. The people who lost obviously were the people who put their coins in at, at FDX at, at full par. And they got 16 they got $16,000 back. So they got paid the cash value when it went under in November of 2011. But the Wall street guys got paid 10, paid 10% of 16,000. So it's just classic how fraudsters just destroyed retail and then Wall street came in and cleaned up. So when Wall street comes in now, their eyes wide open, they know it and we should all be paying attention.
- [37:36]
Scott
I mean the bankruptcy process is the biggest scam. I mean speaking of those claims, I think I've shared this story before. Charlie Shrem, both of us were involved in the Voyager bankruptcy. Sadly, you know, had a large amount of assets on that platform. And he calls me, must have been November 2nd or 3rd of I guess 22 and says listen, I just Sol Voyager claim to this guy Thomas, the same guy, he says, you know, they're selling at 75 cents on the dollar or something, they're buying them up. I was like, wow, that seems really high. Let me talk to the guy. So I'm walking down the street, calls me and he says, yeah, we can do that. I said, okay, I'm, I'm out. That's great, let's do it. Let's go through the process, let's circle back tomorrow. FTX collapsed that day and then the claims went to like 20 or 30 cents their offers. So I missed it by 24 hours on the exit. But I did get a window into the fact that was wildly popular and will continue to be. But I didn't know that the Mt. Gox claims were still out there like this because there's been so much promise of the payback. I don't understand why at this point someone would be selling a Mt. Gox claim. Like where's the market for that?
- [38:48]
Mark
Yeah, when you find out, just drop that phone number in the chat here.
- [38:52]
Scott
Exactly. When you find out, call me and let me know what the discount is. Yeah. And so interestingly, I mean do we have any indication I think like of why Bitcoin is pushing so hard right now? I mean Gary, like you said, it's at, it's 109. I mean it's 108, 851 is what I just saw. 100, 824.
- [39:11]
Joe
We're going to test the all time high today, buddy. I, I don't see like, I mean it's there.
- [39:16]
Scott
It depends on the exchange.
- [39:17]
Joe
But that momentum here.
- [39:20]
Scott
Yeah, it's crazy. Gracie, you're not watching this in real time. I assume on the exchange to see what's happening, right? You're a Little too busy for that.
- [39:31]
Gary
I'm not. But yeah, Exchange ETF like institutions are also adopting a lot. Depends on what time.
- [39:41]
Mark
Right.
- [39:41]
Gary
Right now it's basically driving by the US market since Asia is sleeping already.
- [39:47]
Scott
Yeah. It feels like the big price moves actually generally happen on US hours now, which is a big change because I remember always, you know, like I was going to sleep and I would see a huge move because Asia had just woken up.
- [40:01]
Gary
That's a quite clear.
- [40:03]
Joe
What are we pegging the all time high? I guess.
- [40:06]
Scott
I mean it was just over 109.
- [40:09]
Joe
Yeah, 109 even. Okay.
- [40:12]
Bracey
Yeah, there's, there's been liquidations above 193 on Binance. Yeah. Scott, I think, you know, something people aren't paying attention to, I mean not, you know, so much news, but bringing it back to macro a little bit is the bond yields, right. Like we're seeing these bond yields specifically in Japan just shooting through the roof and you know, where's the rotation, where's the safety? And you know, bitcoin is it now. And you know, the bitcoin treasury companies, it's a huge diversification and everyone's adopting as fast as they can. You know, we kind of peg back to that microstrategy or that strategy conference in Florida. It was insane what was happening and how many people were down there trying to adopt the strategy. Every phone conversation I have now is not even just about adopting bitcoin. It's about, you know, which company is going to be the strategic reserve for all the different layer ones that are out there, the mature ones, right? And like that's. You talk to any of the heads of some of the foundations at a lot of these layer ones and that's what they're talking about, right? And then you've got other foundations that hold a shit ton of bitcoin too. I mean, look at people like Tezos, right? Look at people like Block one, right? They're going to. Some of this deployment is going to go out there. Yeah, there's a great website. It's. I don't even know this is what they do, but it's just Bitcoin. Treasuries.net and it's kind of people are, that's where the people are going now to kind of check who's got what.
- [41:39]
Scott
Block one blows my mind, man.
- [41:41]
Bracey
Yeah, I mean 160,000 Bitcoin, I mean.
- [41:44]
Scott
There'S 160,000 Bitcoin because of the, because of the ICO for EOS.
- [41:50]
Bracey
Hey, more power to them. Every maxi in the world would love that.
- [41:54]
Scott
160,000 in Bitcoin and I'm not sure if EO, and this is not fun. I literally have no idea if EOS still exists or is built. Is that the thing you would know.
- [42:05]
Bracey
Yeah, they exist still. They run like bullish.
- [42:10]
Scott
I know they run Bullish which owns Coindesk and all those. I just didn't know if EOS as a chain was something that was still in theory being built.
- [42:18]
Bracey
I don't know how much building is. Is actually happening over there, but it's definitely, you know, people still buy and sell. I'm sure Gracie knows how much volumes over there.
- [42:27]
Ryan
Scott, do you remember their social platform that they tried to launch?
- [42:31]
Scott
Which one was that? I don't know.
- [42:33]
Ryan
I'm trying to remember. I think it was connect something. But they invested a lot into it. It went belly up. And after that it just seemed like they, they pivoted to sort of building on chain, to building the reserves and going a different route.
- [42:47]
Bracey
$1 billion market cap with 200 million traded daily. So you know that all that market making money is just getting pumped right back in to maybe buying other assets.
- [42:59]
Scott
Incredible. What a time to be alive. What did they raise in their ICO? 6 billion, 8 billion, something like that. I mean, and then that money just gets to sit there at $160,000 bitcoin. I think you just gave me the greatest seg. I see that we have wonder social on stage. Obviously EOS had that social network. We've seen quite a few attempts, I think over time at decentralized social networks to some degree. And you guys are here. I see you on stage. And aren't you literally launching today, or at least token?
- [43:32]
Kaden
We certainly are. 4:00 clock UTC.
- [43:36]
Scott
Fortuitous timing. I'm AO. You're hired for doing segues. Well, since we have you guys here obviously as a sponsor today, maybe you can give us the breakdown I'm reading right now on your page. Decentralized social platform has launched its native Token, empowering creators and users to own their identities, earn rewards and shape a community driven web3 social ecosystem. There's a movement to redefine the Internet with user ownership at its core. And as I'm going through here, you guys raised, raised a ton of money. It's very real, right? You raise like what, 50 million more?
- [44:11]
Kaden
Yes, we have. We went for an initial equity round at the start just to get us off the ground. And then we launched initially as a, as a Web2 initiative and then to tackle some of the issues that we're facing or that we're trying to sort of tackle. We then look down the Web3 route and just the, the, the sort of use of the Web3 technology. So that's when we decided to launch Token. But yeah, the funding side of it has been quite.
- [44:34]
Scott
And what is the issue that you saw on the Web two side that Web three actually solves?
- [44:40]
Kaden
Well, the whole idea came around actually during lockdown. To myself, it was, you know, I think everyone sees it in the paper, in the news every day. Just regarding sort of toxicity around social media. It's just turned into a bit of, a, bit of a cesspit. So it's like initially we looked at why the big boys weren't doing much to tackle these things and we did a hell of a lot of research with the first investment round to sort of try and establish, you know, why they weren't doing anything, what we could do about it, what was out there, what, you know, what sort of Gen Z initially were sort of looking for where their pain points were. So, yeah, we feel like a lot of the toxicity and authenticity will be based around our fully verified element. So to get into our platform, you have to be fully verified. That's something that none of the big guys can just pivot on and do straight off the bat. You know, they'll lose a lot of users and most of them are public companies and that's just not viable. So, you know, when you're looking at verification. So SSI is obviously a great way to get around that. There's other elements. We've got money moving around our app giving back to users in the form of our ad share revenue, which they can then pay forward to good causes. We've got, you know, we share revenue with creators, so there's money flying around. So the Web3 tackles a lot of those elements for us.
- [46:09]
Scott
So effectively it's adding the ability for someone to actually monetize their own work and data to some degree and earn rewards, rather than a centralized company like a Google or someone like that. Is that correct?
- [46:24]
Wonder Social Team
Yeah, in a nutshell. Sorry, Kane here.
- [46:27]
Scott
I was like, damn, your voice just changed dramatically. Can you just give us a preface? How many of you guys are there? I just wanted three of us.
- [46:36]
Wonder Social Team
Yeah, we got Ryan, the cmo, myself, Kaden.
- [46:39]
Scott
I could have just brought you guys all up, but I love this. At the end, if you guys don't do a Backstreet Boys song, I'm gonna be very disappointed.
- [46:46]
Wonder Social Team
You don't want to hear that. Believe me, you don't want to hear that.
- [46:49]
J
We're all huddled around the mic. We got together for a big week for tge, so we thought we'd just jump on one space with you guys.
- [46:53]
Scott
So, yeah, continue on. You just threw me off there for a second. I love it. That's right.
- [47:00]
Wonder Social Team
Well, yes. So from it, basically, it's all driven by the wonder identity. So the premise of it is give people power to own their own identity. Don't give that to the centralized organizations. We were all guilty of doing login with something at some point or other, whether that be like Facebook or Google or whatever platform is your preference. But you're handing over the power of your data to those platforms. And it's exploited. We've seen it over countless time over the last few years. It all started with, you know, the big Cambridge Analytica scandals, and then we're seeing more and more whistleblower stuff. You're handing over the power to your data to a centralized organization to exploit. The thing is, all of that is driven by the. The fact they want to sell your eyeballs. They sell your eyeballs, they get the data, they re pump that back into the platform, they give that to, you know, to support their ad spend and so on and so forth. It's a perpetual cycle because the whole model is driven by that ad revenue. There's no alternative, so they can't step away from it. By introducing blockchain technology, we provide additional revenue streams not only for the creators, but us as a business, and then we don't have to sell our soul to then sell your soul. You know, we can approach it in an entirely different way to the rest of the market. We can say, okay, we'll provide the conversation space. You bring the conversation and you own the conversation. We're not here to be draconian. We're not here to mute you, shadow ban you, silence you. You're in your own communities. You support one another and you make the decision. But ultimately all of that data resides with you. Now, that can then be further monetized, and we do have mechanisms in place to monetize that data, but it's all done in a revenue share model. So if we sell the data, then we share that revenue back to the data candidates. You know, you. You ultimately own it. And it's all done on chain. It's all done with secret contracts because we've partnered up with the guys at Secret Network and we're and with the guys at Silent Swap. So all of it happens under the hood. And it's all kind of between you.
- [48:54]
Scott
And you said Secret Network and SilentWob, those are both effectively privacy protocols. Right. So that's clearly that's an important element of those are the partnerships that you have.
- [49:07]
Wonder Social Team
100%. Yeah. It's privacy driven privacy first. Right. It's all about giving privacy and ownership back to the consumer. So we were using secret network, secret AI. We're leveraging that to create secret algorithms. So you privately own your experience on the app. What you see, how you see it, you create your own social graph. It's nothing to do with us. If you want to expose that social graph, you'll get paid for it. Right. It's as simple as that. And you're sharing the revenue from it. If you want to stop other AI bots training their data on yours. That's what our AI is all about. It's all about having an agent based AI that wraps up your privacy. We're doing this from a protocol level and social wonder Social itself is the first outlet for that. But we expect in the future, once we've built this social experience for everybody and people have their Wonder identity, we'll be opening up that protocol for other platforms to then come on. So you know, as an example, once you've got your Wonder identity, which is delivered via a ZK proofs method, you own that in your wallet, so it's held inside your application locally to you and obviously on chain, you then can use that to get in and out of other platforms like traditional SSO platforms in the Web2world. So we'll be bringing people in, but you build up a reputation score over time and you build up information that's all done on zero knowledge proofs. So if another platform comes on and says, which is a big talking point at the moment, you've got to be over 16 to be on our social network. Okay, great. Boolean goes across and says, this person's been verified. They are over 16. They have not to share any information, they haven't had to infringe on their privacy and away they go. And they do that with wonder off the bat. And that one of the things we are tackling because we believe deeply and about it and we all have children and we want to protect, protect their well being in the future is actually have the right people on the platforms. If this isn't suitable, if we're seeing now that the rise of social media from Web2 over the last two decades has had a negative effect on young people where there is a push to remove people from those platforms, the platforms have A responsibility to do something about it and they're not willing to do it. We believe without infringing someone's privacy and data, we can do that. And that's where Web3 technology is just so important and why the Wonder token is so important because that powers that entire ecosystem and that's why we've done it. So we ended up here organically. We never set out to do this, it's just the way it's fallen out. Web3 is the way to combat the issues in the Web2 world. So we had E commerce, we've had social media. That's Web two. Great. Web three is about ownership and that's where we.
- [51:31]
Scott
So is this a layer for social platforms or is it a fully built out social platform of its own? Because obviously it says, I'm looking at your site says you guys are launching June 25th coming up, as you said, 77,000 handles reserved creators on board, 23, 432. So is this going to be a full standalone platform and what's that going to look like, you know, in comparison? In comparison to, I mean we're on X right now or an Instagram or a Snapchat face chat, Snap book, whatever. I'm a boomer, I have no idea.
- [52:00]
Wonder Social Team
But so it's listen familiar but different is what we're all about, right? It's Web two powered by Web three. So we're not trying to reinvent the gimmick. What we're trying to do is provide a feature parity experience where you can enjoy social media the bits that you love about it, without the negative, without having to sell your soul, without having the toxicity, without having the bad side of it. Right, but it's self governed. This will be rolled out in stages. It will be a fully fledged social media platform. But when we build out the infrastructure and architecture for what we're doing, that will become available in the Wonder protocol over the coming years. So for example, tokenization of real world assets, platform minting on chain and ownership on chain storage of creator content that could be accessed by rapid access systems. So like putting a caching layer in over the top of it, you then because you control your data when other platforms come along the way it goes. If you want to build your own platform on top of it and use your own data, you can do. We're trying to get that Web3 Web2 Parity experience into Web3. But our first outlet is Wonder Social where we bring everyone together, we give them a reason to have the Wonder ID which we've got lots coming up in our go to market strategy which I'll hand over to Ryan. But. But yes, in answer to your question, familiar but different. We are in a social media platform. Why reinvent the wheel? We all like social media for its positives. So let's just remove the aspects that, that people just don't like and it's, and it's all over the media at the moment.
- [53:23]
J
And just to jump on there, Brian, the, the cmo. I've got rich experience from social media, right? So I was at TikTok for six years from when it just launched in Europe and helped build that business, working across different roles, but primarily as marketing and helping scale and diversify that audience. So I understand how social media platforms work and how they think and what they really want to do. And it was the exploitation of users and creating an experience that wasn't right for young users particularly that really drove me to leave and ultimately to join Wonder. And. But when you look back at TikTok, what they really did is they democratized creativity by putting in an editing suite into the platform. So anyone who had no idea about how to edit videos, they were just suddenly given something that was almost comparable to Final Cut. And hundreds and thousands, millions of creators around the world have learned how to do video editing through TikTok and subsequently Capcut. We believe that we can do the same thing for Web3 via Wonder. So we're here to democratize access to Web3 technologies. So all of the things like SSI, decentralization of your identity, the tokenization of real world assets, all that stuff that Keynes has talked about, we believe that Wonder has the power to democratize that and make it really easy and understandable for people to use simply by hiding the wires, talking about the benefits rather than getting too hung up on features. The details obviously there, but we'll talk about the benefits, hiding the wires and just having a really, really slick and sexy UI to make it.
- [54:48]
Bracey
Scott, take care if I ask a quick question?
- [54:50]
Scott
No, I would love. You're the perfect person to be on stage today for this conversation. Go ahead.
- [54:54]
Bracey
Yeah, just. And I know Gary's like harder than a titanium etched seed phrase right now with Bitcoin approaching 110. But you guys, social, decentralized social has, you know, it's kind of been out there, you know, Noer Farcaster and Warpcast kind of took a run at it. You know, there's only one new large scale social media network like a decade, right? Maybe one or two. And it sounds like if you're a tick tock, you kind of understand that. And it just seems like the consumer behavior is that consumers don't really care too much about privacy or ownership yet around their social media content. Right. And it's like trying to get people to move over to create content on a new network seems insanely difficult. You know, have you ever thought about potentially just logging the social media content that's created on the other networks to provide some sort of layer, like logging layer for ownership versus necessarily trying to get like the new algorithm, you know, because cracking that new algorithm to get people like, you know, for lack of a better term, addicted to your platform versus the other ones that we all elephant in the room are addicted to. You know, what are your, what are your thoughts there? A little bit around, you know, there's only one social media network that comes every 10 years. Like why is it you guys?
- [56:24]
Wonder Social Team
Yeah, you know, it's a, it's actually something that we did explore interestingly enough. And what, when we got through the research and as Jay said at the beginning, right, we spent the best part of the initial investment just researching this and talking to Gen Z and spending time with them and the bits that matter. The underlying issue was the privacy and the exploitation because you hear the stories around like, you know, loss of income, loss of revenue, shadow bans, all these things that impact them and stuff like that. And then they see all the exploitation and they're fed up with it. And without saying they're fed up with a centralized platform under the underlying situation. Is that the control and the power? But we always realized when we were doing that, that actually trying to shift the entire space, 4 billion people, over 6 billion people, over to a new platform wasn't the way to go. So from our perspective, it's all about providing creators with the tools to protect their content and their future and get them to work with wonder first and share with us first and bring the communities. We actually have a large amount of people that have left or exited social media for some of the issues that they've been involved or they've had over in social media, saying look, we'll come on board initially and start working with you guys. We, we kind of mint it with us first, right? Start with us and then push out from there. We don't expect people to exclusively have their content with us and we do want them to bring their libraries to us, but continue to work with those. They are huge revenue earners for those and they have massive audiences. Right. And there is an experience there. But ultimately down the line. What we expect to happen is us to become a conversation piece with all of those other platforms and hopefully those platforms will be able to embrace some of the technology to work with them, because it's not unheard of that these platforms copy each other, become interoperable with one another. So it's, it's the social platform is one element of it, but actually the infrastructure is the other. And it's whether and what way that the creators choose to embrace that, that's entirely up to them. We're just giving them the choice to do that. But we do know there is a huge appetite for it when you show them the alternative revenue models, when you show them the alternative to what's there right now. And that's the, that's the approach we're taking, right? We're not unrealistic and we know we've got an enormous task on our hands going up against these guys, but we think that we've got the right angles and the right approach to it. And it's not, you know, we're talking to you guys about privacy and security because we're Talking to a Web3 audience, right? This is a Web2 audience that are buying it. If you look at our website, we don't really.
- [58:40]
Scott
That was my next question is how much will that be abstract? You said it's going to be a slick UX UI. That's always been the Web3 problem, right? Is it's just not abstracted away enough and Grandma's not getting a MetaMask wallet.
- [58:52]
Wonder Social Team
100 and, and the wonder identity. And that's why we've chosen that as the step in the door is, is the key to that, right? Because if we unlock that, we make that super, super enjoyable and it's like, oh, okay, cool. Like this, this, we obfuscate all away, all of the stuff that is confusing. We work forwards, right? We don't want people needing a PhD in, you know, how to open up a trust wallet to, to, to, you know, worry about this stuff. We just want people to come on and enjoy and if we can get that right, we're probably 50, 60 of the way there of getting more and more people engaged with Web3 technology over time. And that's only going to be positive for the industry. We're not, you know, it's not about the 6% that are Web3 natives and that, you know, love this already and they know the benefits of it. They're going to make, they're going to benefit from the token because they're going to be in early, right. Everyone else is going to come on that journey over time and then they'll, they'll move across because we hope this will be the gateway to other platforms in the future and we'll start setting that UX experience for others to kind of follow. You know, we're web2natives, so we bring that first and we focus on our Web2 audience because we know if we get the app right, the Web3 stuff will take care of itself.
- [60:00]
Scott
That answer your question, Joe?
- [60:03]
Bracey
Yeah, I mean it, it's tough. It, you know, a lot of the social media networks, the new ones are created, you know, like TikTok, it's 12 to 15 year olds, right. And those are the people that can't really, you know, be on here anonymously, but that's where the virality kind of starts. And so, but I, I do, you know, it sounds like you are taking into account, you know, for some of those larger creators that logging and hey, I'm like, I'm going to create this piece of content so that I can like mark back and prove that I was the first person to create that. And then what, what can happen when that kind of gets extrapolated out to the other networks is that that you can verifiably prove that you are the one that created that and that's your ip. Because I think the huge piece here, and you guys, this may be why you're doing this, is that there's so much AI generated content and copycatting right now, you know, that you have to have some sort of verifiably provable place that you did that. And I love silent swap. I think you guys should definitely check out Houdini Swap. You know, there's a couple of these kind of privacy swaps coming up up too that, that could be really impactful. But I'm, I'm definitely a cheerleader. I love the idea. I want it to be real so bad. It's just such a hard problem.
- [61:14]
Wonder Social Team
No, listen, we know we've got an uphill battle and we really appreciate you saying that. And I think you hit the nail on the head, right? Authenticity is lost when things like AI take over. And immutable proof of ownership on chain allows us to build things like our licensing and protection platform, our relicensing of content platform to build royalties off of your platform, your content as you know, a secret contract between you and someone who wants to remix your contract, your content, it is there, it's available to you. A brand wants to come on and work with you and do Work with you, you make the content with us and where you post it, well that's all to. That all creates and builds into the secret contract between you and the brand. So it's about the tools to give you more protection and ownership of your content as well. And the IP is a massive one. You know, we're even exploring, exploring, should I say tokenization of future royalties on artists albums. So you take a band, huge following, you know, want to make the next album, want to bring their community closer, tokenize that, that asset, tokenize the album sell off in the, you know, pre, pre sell access to that album to their community so they can help fund it. They invest in it. They're invested in you. They're going to shout about your, your project because they're going to get royalties on it if the public buy it. So the revenue comes back through it. And we've been talking to major record labels about this stuff. We've got artists very interested in it. We're talking to huge ticketing companies about tying this in with, on chain ticketing and that whole reseller market and protecting the public's interest. The knock on effect from proof of ownership is huge. So we've got to start and follow that line. Right. This isn't all going to happen tomorrow, but the more and more you explore it, the more and more these large organizations that we're connected to are kind of, of knocking on the door going, could this be possible if, if you did this? Yes, it is. Okay, great. And, and that's where we're going with it. So yeah. And you know, AI is just, it's almost like the easy win. Right. When, when Facebook turned around and said they didn't want to validate anything anymore, it was almost like kicking a door open for us. We're like, thanks very much guys. Because that's not what the public want. Right. They want to. They're so bamboozled with fake material and AI and, and, and, and stuff that is really quite toxic. They, they want to move away from that and we know the market sentiment is there. So like thank you very much for saying that because we're going to go the other way.
- [63:26]
Scott
Fascinating. I literally was just reading as you were talking. I didn't. Your token literally launches in like 40 minutes. Right. So I guess people want to participate in that. How do they do that? Yeah.
- [63:38]
J
So we're going live across Mexi in as you say, 40 minutes time. All the info is available on our X pages telegram. So come join the party. Yeah. Going live in 40 minutes. So we've got to have an afternoon.
- [63:51]
Scott
Before I let you guys go. Any final thoughts I might have missed something important, I don't know everything obviously.
- [63:58]
Kaden
No, I think the, the only thing I would say is, you know, I, I knew from the start that this would sort of live or die based on who we could attract to the project. And you know, we've got some, some major names invested both from an equity and a token point of view. We've got, you know, numerous big named musicians, actresses, actors ready to join the platform that are completely backing it. I think that's, that's my final word.
- [64:22]
Wonder Social Team
Yeah, we're just grateful for you guys giving us the space and the time to, to share the message of Wonder. We, we do believe we will be the platform that will take Web3 to the Web2 community and its masses. We get this UX right, you know, the world is our oyster. So yeah, we really hope that everyone has enjoyed what we had to say today and come along for the journey. We appreciate.
- [64:44]
Scott
Yeah, they can follow all three of you together at once here at Wonder with it. Wonder. Come on guys, I want it that way. Come on, you can do it. Big moment. We've been dying to have a new British boy bands. The world needs it.
- [64:59]
J
Yeah, we're five Westlight.
- [65:02]
Ryan
Yeah, called the Beatles, Scott.
- [65:06]
Scott
Whatever man. God damn it. Hey Jude. Okay, yeah, that was better. You win, Joe, you win. Sorry, I lose.
- [65:15]
Wonder Social Team
He's from Liverpool.
- [65:16]
Scott
There you go. Well guys, yeah, so obviously check out Wonder Underscore Social. They're right here on stage, so really easy to follow. Sounds very exciting. Good luck guys today. I know that's always a big day, but I guess more importantly, good luck in June when you actually start to heavily roll the cell to Joe's point. I hope you beat the odds and become better than your former employee, TikTok.
- [65:41]
Ryan
Thanks.
- [65:42]
Scott
Yeah, to everyone else we do. The title today was, is Bitcoin about to finally break out to a new all time high? I cannot have predicted that that would happen during the show, but Bitcoin did hit a high of about 109,400, 500 depending on the exchange. Currently trading at 109,168. So if you're the type to fire off rocket emojis and reggae style foghorns, this is the time to do it. Because we did officially make a new all time high today. Congratulations to all of you. Probably just the beginning. Otherwise we will be back tomorrow obviously. 10:15am Eastern Standard Time. Thank you to all of our amazing guests. Today. A lot of you stuck around for the the last 20 minutes while we talked about British boy bands. Everybody on stage deserves a follow. So please, give them all a follow. And I guess most of the people here will probably see you all in Vegas next week anyways, right? So until then, see you tomorrow. Bye, guys. I want it that.