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- [00:02]
Scott Melker
Bitcoin is currently trading at 87,000American dollars, roughly $10,000 above the recent bottom leading. Many to ask, is the bottom in? Was this just another normal 30% ish correction in a bull market, or should we be waiting for lower prices? When I want to talk about markets and what's happening in the industry, we bring in the best, like David Young from Coinbase and of course, we have Andrew Parish from Arch Public and the ghost of Tillman, who has decided once again not to join us when we're expecting him. We love you, Tillman. It's going to be a great show today, guys. Let's go.
- [00:42]
Andrew Parish
Let's do. Let's do.
- [00:57]
Scott Melker
What is up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, also known as the Wolf of all streets. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and hit that like button. I feel like you're all subscribed to the channel and you don't care about the like button, if we're being honest, but it's become such a routine thing to say. I wouldn't even know how to start the show otherwise. Maybe next time I will just bring on our amazing guests. You, Andrew and David. And no, Tillman. Thought he was coming. Thought he was coming, but Tillman's not joining us. Good morning, gentlemen. We were just talking off camera before about how incredibly boring the market is. It feels like we're holding our breath and waiting for something. But today in particular, David, I went through the news this morning and it was a couple stories that are sort of from yesterday, you know, sailor obviously buying a whole lot of bitcoin and passing 500,000. I think that's meaningful and worth talking about. But then a whole lot of nothing. Some inflows here and there, some tariff news. Trump tweeted about his token. I mean, what's happening here?
- [01:58]
David Young
Yeah, I mean, it's the really first relief I feel like we've gotten in a few weeks. So I want to enjoy it, to be honest with you. I. I think that a lot of people are waiting for tariffs. It seems like there could be some, you know, moderation in terms of what we're going to get on April 2nd. So I think people are incrementally starting to position again because really, it doesn't matter what, I mean, it matters, but I think, like, what actually happens on that side of things, like, what the problem is really just the uncertainty of. I don't know when these tariffs are coming. I don't know how much they're coming. Like, it's the win. How if all those things make it really hard to kind of position yourself from investment perspective, if you are a treasurer who's trying to invest in different projects, or if you're an investor who's trying to bet on the markets, you just can't do it ahead of that kind of uncertainty. So I think that with the prospect of that relief kind of coming, FOMC is now over. I think people are looking at the macro environment and saying, like, maybe here is where we can start kind of putting some money into work.
- [03:00]
Scott Melker
Interesting though, because even if we get tariff quote, unquote, clarity on April 2, don't we all know that it could just change on April 3rd or any day based on a tweet or a comment? Right. I mean, every single day it's, this will be what the tariffs are. Then a week later it's like, maybe there'll be some relief and then it's a different number and then he backtracks. And I know it's all a sort of negotiating technique, but even when we get certainty, it feels like markets don't have certainty in the current environment.
- [03:28]
David Young
Yeah, you're kind of operating on the information you have rather than the idea that you could have potentially more uncertainty. And we know there are two big dates. There's going to be April 2nd. Well, I would say, like there's a few dates in a row. April 1 is when we see that there's going to be a slowdown of the pace of quantitative tightening from the Fed, which is going to be hugely important because that's going to introduce more liquidity into the system. There's going to be then the tariff announcement, but then the EU is also going to have a tariff announcement sometime in mid April as well. So we do have those kind of three dates, plus the first week of earnings, I think, is going to tell us a lot about how much actual consumer demand there is. Because so far I think people have been really concerned about the survey data, but the reality is that the hard data, we don't have a ton of it. So I think people are also waiting to see what the actual earnings look like from a lot of these companies, what their forecasts are. And I think that will also probably determine whether we've actually reached the bottom of the bottom of the bottom or if there's a little bit more to go.
- [04:32]
Scott Melker
Yeah, what I hear is that the crypto market is still pretty inextricably tied to what's happening in the macro and still looking for certainty to get the next move. I mean, Andrew is That kind of how you're still framing it, because I still. Just nothing but good news in crypto still.
- [04:48]
Andrew Parish
Well, there's, you know, bitcoin in particular has become very, very tied to tradfi assets and tradfi narratives because there are huge, massive tradfi hands that exist associated with bitcoin now. Right. So, yeah, there's going to be a, you know, watching the wires, you know, watching what the FOMC does, watching what Trump has to say, watching what, you know, macro news is associated with. There's going to be movements. It's interesting that, you know, Thursday, Friday of last week, you know, bitcoin moved. Just didn't do anything.
- [05:32]
Scott Melker
It was 84, 000, basically.
- [05:33]
Andrew Parish
Yeah, it basically flatlined at 84, 000 for, for almost 72 hours. And, you know, the point that I made was just a, a couple sentences on, on X. I just simply said, don't get bored with bitcoin price action. Just don't get bored with it and do something that you may regret. Like, you know, don't get bored and say, I'm bored, I'm going to do something with my bitcoin position. And the next thing you know, it bounced immediately to, to 88 and change, you know, not the biggest move in the world, but again, don't get bored. And so, you know, maybe that's the upshot here. There may not be an enormous amount of news to talk about today, but bitcoin doesn't read the papers. Bitcoin doesn't scan the Internet for news to associate itself with. Bitcoin just is. And so, you know, whether it's Michael Saylor and his movements and his, you know, gymnastics that he's doing with traditional financial levers and pulleys, whether it's perpetual strife or whether it's perpetual strike or whether it's something else, you know, supposedly there's something else that he's got under, you know, under his sleeve that at some point will be announced, you know, whatever it happens to be. It may be interesting and it may grab headlines. Bitcoin will react to it because he's a. He's a significant player at this point given, you know, owning a half a billion bitcoin. But at the same time, the overarching theme and has been for its entire life cycle is bitcoin is going to eventually go higher, irrespective of the. Irrespective of the headlines, whether good or bad. So act accordingly.
- [07:23]
Scott Melker
Let's talk about Saylor. Okay, so obviously, David, we have this new Offering which is, as he said, perpetual strife. The utestrf. Oh, the irony. But it's completely a cash dividend, basically, right? I mean, you get 10% on your money. There's really no bitcoin involved. And that's obviously based on some sort of performance metric and couldn't possibly be guaranteed. Right. Because obviously if bitcoin goes down massively, it would be very hard to pay people a 10% dividend on their cash, but still seemingly very popular, and they're still able to buy a ton of bitcoin. I mean, I guess the question is, is this getting to be too much? I mean, how many more instruments, how much more demand can there possibly be?
- [08:08]
Andrew Parish
When.
- [08:08]
Scott Melker
When has microstrategy basically run out of ways to buy bitcoin or find dry powder?
- [08:14]
David Young
Yeah, I think this was one of the more complex ones. And even having worked in finance for a while, I still had to sit there and kind of, kind of think through all the conditions that are tied to this new offering of like, okay, these are junior bonds, but still senior to common stock. They don't have. I don't think it ever has to be paid back, by the way. I think that's. That's part of the deal when you hand them this cash. You know, it. It does pay, as you mentioned, that relatively pretty high, like, cash dividend. And, you know, theoretically you could convert it into common stock, I believe, with this one. So, I mean, there's. There's a lot to kind of think about if you're. You're kind of doing this. But I. I think, you know, this is something that I would have probably seen at the peak of, you know, the. The bull run. Not kind of where we are right now, where bitcoin is kind of just, you know, to be fair, holding in relatively well, all things considered, but certainly not performing as well as we would have liked at this point. But it seems that he's still able to kind of raise cash through these means. And I think people are playing the long game here.
- [09:20]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I agree that bitcoin has held in well. When you actually look though bitcoin on track for worst Q1 close since 2020. But analysts predicted Q2 rebound. That actually, it doesn't feel that way. So I remember, I remember 2020. Yeah, it was brutal. You know, I think. But when you look at fear and greed and things like that, we do have some negative sentiment, I think, you know, largely because of all coins. But I was actually kind of surprised that it's been that bad. When you look at you know, the, the metrics for the whole quarter.
- [09:49]
Andrew Parish
Well, it's the, it's the pace at which that, that drawdown happened, happening in that tight, that tight quarter, you know, time frame. Right. 2020 was a more elongated draw down that was much worse. Right. But because it happens to land in, in Q1, that makes it relevant. What I would say is I'm reminded of, of CZ's tweet from 2020 that I believe said, just wait until the headline that says, you know, bitcoin crashes from 100,000 down to 85. I mean we're, we're living that particular tweet. We're living that now meme in real time. And so, you know, I, I will say to pivot a little bit from Bitcoin, you know, maybe a little bit of news associated with BlackRock adding Solana to their, their money market fund. Anything that BlackRock does in crypto is very, very meaningful and should be not only talked about but it, you know, potentially should be acted upon. The reality is, is that, you know, blackrock has become not, you know, Larry Fink himself has become a bitcoin evangelist and BlackRock has become crypto evangelist. It's extraordinary. Every time they're in public, whoever it happens to be associated with their firm, they're talking about crypto. They're not even talking. So they're not using the term blockchain all that much in these moments. They're actually talking about crypto. They're talking about crypto assets and it's, it's their version of convincing their constituents to get long with them, obviously get long crypto. It, it is, it is, it is a as big and a bigger a movement than what Sailor is doing over the long term. No doubt about it.
- [11:43]
Scott Melker
The other thing that they're doing, I don't know if you saw this news, but BlackRock launches Bitcoin ETP in Europe following US success, so finally expanding beyond the United States. Euronext Paris Extra Euronext Amsterdam on Tuesday marks BlackRock's first introduction of crypto backed ETPs outside North America. I don't think there's anything surprising or huge here, but very clear that BlackRock's not stopping and I think that's what's meaningful here. David, I mean you're obviously on the institutional side. I mean, do you think that we're going to soon start to hear about some of these bigger names participating that we've been waiting for? I saw a whole lot of conjecture, Andrew, was from you that, you know, we have going to have another microstrategy or someone much larger that's coming in. And I've heard that rumor multiple times. But I guess like is this, are we finally going to see the promise of the Morgan Stanley's and the JP Morgan's maybe ramping up activity?
- [12:38]
David Young
I think so. I mean we actually ran a survey very recently where we talked to I think like 300, 400 different institutional entities and we asked them like how they want to participate in crypto markets for example. And still I think we saw in 2024 it was somewhere around 75% that invest via spot and ETF ETPs. That number has gone up for the 2025 year of to around 87%. So you see a massive increase in people wanting to participate in market through these vehicles. So I think that they are still very meaningful. And we haven't seen a lot of these RIA slash. These investment advisors necessarily allow their, you know, their representatives to actually speak to clients and advertise these clients. Some of these companies still do it only through like, you know, you have to ask them in order for them to actually offer to you. So I think that that probably will change. We are seeing that a lot of them have finished their due diligence for example and you know, some of that range from like three months to a year for different places. But I think now we're starting to see the inflow coming from these RIAs. But that said, like the way ETFs work in the US and Europe, I will say that, you know, they, these investment advisors use them differently in the U.S. eTFs are the main vehicle through which they create portfolio construction. It's not necessarily the case in Europe. So I still tend to follow the US market when it comes to the flows and their impact on the markets.
- [14:09]
Andrew Parish
There, you know, the, the rumor kind of swirling around that there's going to be a larger corporate entity, larger than strategy that ends up, you know, putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet, that, that chirping has got a little bit louder and you know, there's, you know, without naming what I've heard, you know, I'll throw some names out there like whether it's Meta, whether it's Dell or whether it's some others. You know, at some point the, you know, the movement, the corporate balance sheet movement associated with Bitcoin is going to turn into more than a movement. At some point it will switch to a must have. It's just a question of the scale of that must have. Right. You know, as has been discussed a lot, you know, in the space. You know, having Bitcoin on your balance sheet adds a plus plus to the overall performance of your, your stock. I mean that, that, that's just absolutely the truth. It avoids short sellers in a big way because they, they have a difficulty shorting something with, with Bitcoin on their balance sheet. They don't understand it and how to treat it. And then secondarily it adds some level of street cred with a bit know a portion of your customer base. And that's helpful as well. I will say that the, the, the rumor mill associated with this is not associated with GameStop. That's not a big enough entity also, you know, because Strategy and Micro Strategy and Sailor lives in our silo, our Bitcoin silo. You know, Micro strategy is not a massive company, right? It's not a massive. Yeah, it's a, it's a fairly small entity. And so, you know, a Dell or a Meta or something like that that is immeasurably larger by a factor of 10 at minimum of a company like Strategy. So yeah, I would expect that in the coming months and you know, we may be bereft of, of headlines today, but that, that's not all. Always the case with Bitcoin. Something like this would, would, would adjust the narrative again to the upside.
- [16:29]
Scott Melker
I mean, are those the names that we're looking at here? Meta?
- [16:34]
Andrew Parish
Yeah, Dell, Apple.
- [16:36]
Scott Melker
Dell. Are these the people that could be buying bitcoin quietly? You were very specific. Now I gotta find the tweet. But you're like not GameStop, right?
- [16:43]
Andrew Parish
Yeah, right. No, it's not GameStop that I'm hearing and talking about being told and oftentimes my, you know, when I send out fairly cryptic stuff like that, it's coming from legal folks associated with, you know, the world of Bitcoin ETFs that, you know, that, that have to, to, to be involved in the policies associated with adding Bitcoin to a balance sheet or approving a sale of some sort or a purchase of some sort. You know, in the corporate world, you know, this type of stuff has to be approved. It has to go through approval process. Boards have to get on board. So yeah, it's a, it's a thing and at some point it will happen. It's just a question of who, you know, what, what's, what entity of size takes the next step. You know, Michael Dell has been fairly, you know, not, not necessarily overwhelmingly vocal about Bitcoin, but he's, he's nibbled around the edges, no doubt in a public way.
- [17:48]
Scott Melker
So let's. I want to switch topics here and ask David a question. We have all of these potential altcoin ETFs coming, Salon, XRP, Doge, you name it. Trump literally will, you know, theoretically could see ETS filed for everything. Who's buying these? What's the, what's the prognosis for these? I have a funny feeling they won't be hugely popular, at least initially. I would think we'd see indexed ones, maybe be popular, but I've gotten some pushback on that. But do we need. I mean, Ethereum's been fine, maybe. I think it's actually been good. People just view it in the lens of the Bitcoin ETFs, which is unfair. But who's buying a Doge ETF?
- [18:35]
David Young
Yeah, I think all of the things need to be seen relative to how bitcoin performed, because if you look at the ETH etf, the flows there were fairly decent. I mean, for something that launched in July of last year, like, I think they got somewhere around like 3 to 4 billion dollars worth of inflows, which pretty decent. I mean, like you remember the gold ETF back in 2004, the first year, they only gained around $3.8 billion, which 20, 25 terms still around like 5 billion. It's not like, it's not a bad number, but like that was our benchmark before and just bitcoin just blew right past that. I mean, like 10x over. So everyone's kind of now expecting every ETF to kind of launch in the same fashion and it's like, no. Well, if you look at market caps, look at the way, like, you know, like some of these, like grayscale kind of entities, for example, kind of like held in trust, for example, kind of operated like you have to look at everything else after bitcoin as a fraction of that bitcoin number. So I think that's kind of what we can expect. But certainly I wouldn't expect the same kind of flow to kind of come in. It depends on the market environment, it depends on when it's launching, who's launching it. So there's a lot of variables.
- [19:49]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean, I guess another way to frame that, since you're obviously deep in this world, do you hear chatter that institutions are interested in other individual assets beyond Bitcoin and maybe eth. Are they even asking?
- [20:05]
David Young
So many of the new entrants on the institutional side are still pretty anchored to bitcoin. Maybe eth, maybe Seoul at the margin. But honestly it doesn't go very far because I mean we have time theoretically to research all this stuff, but they don't. You got to keep in mind that this isn't 90 of their portfolio. This is a single digit percentage of it. So, so they can't spend that much time on it because they have to worry about their greater allocations, which means they don't really veer far from the blue chip names in the space.
- [20:41]
Andrew Parish
Well, the difficulty is that think if you're bitwise as an organization and you're going out and you're having conversation after conversation after conversation with RIAs financial advisors, they're doing the work at the ground level. So easy conversation to have about Bitcoin as it relates to its narrative a little bit more difficult with Ethereum. You know, okay, they figured that out. So you know, inflows have, have, have leveled out and are. Okay, what are the narratives associated with Solana, H Bar Doge and some other assets? What, how do you create a compelling narrative that says hey, 2 billion dollar RIA team, this is why you should allocate capital to the XRP etf? How do you create what, what's the narrative there other than maybe you should have some exposure in case it goes up?
- [21:43]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I don't want, I don't want to get in trouble with the XRP army because it's nothing. But in this specific case, even verse in hbar or Solana or something which is entirely token based. I think an RIA would have an easier time selling Ripple stock exposure than XRP token or ETF in some way, shape or form because there's two other, you know, you can get exposure to the actual company which maybe is easier for an investment professional to understand what the token does.
- [22:11]
Andrew Parish
And that's my point is that, is that the narratives there again, the narrative with Bitcoin digital gold, simple, easy. The narrative with Ethereum, it's the new Internet or something. I, I don't know. And, and, but then after that it, it begins to break down a little bit as to how are you selling a compelling narrative that says allocate capital as a percentage into this, you know, one asset entity etf that, that gets fairly difficult. And by the way, you know, at the wealth management level, that's where the trillions of dollars of actual retail assets live right again here in our crypto silo. Yeah, we've, we've got a couple trillion and change, but you've got trillions of dollars at these wealth management assets across the globe. So I, I always come back to the bitwise idea of you're standing in front of a group of, you know, 15 guys that have, have their hands on a couple hundred million in client assets each and they're a group that equals 2 billion. What does that narrative look like for an HBAR, an XRP, a Solana, a Doge, Whatever it happens to be, it's, it's hard for me to find, it's hard for me to make sense of.
- [23:31]
David Young
Yeah, I think there will be a future state where index products are going to be the norm, just like in equities. Because I don't think that many of these RIAs are doing the research on 500 companies either.
- [23:41]
Scott Melker
But they kind of don't pick individual stocks. Right. I mean most people passively invest in some sort of index, whether it's a, you know, so like if you can't get your average person with a 401k or institution to be like I want to buy Nike, you know, like you, I would. They just want the S and P. Then how do we get people to say I want an H bar? And it's nothing against these individually? I just think that the farther we get down the, not Bitcoin or even Ethereum curve, it's just, they have never even heard of it.
- [24:11]
David Young
No, but the mentality there is, I want to get the systematic risk exposure to US Equities, I want to get systematic risk exposure to Asian equities or European equities. It's not necessarily like I want to get specific exposure to Nvidia. You know, like I think that that mentality will shift as our space matures as well. And then they'll say okay, cool, cool, cool. I don't want to just, you know, just buy Bitcoin, but I want exposure to meme coins and infrastructure and Defy and Deepin. So just put that all in a basket and give it to me. You know, like that moment will come.
- [24:48]
Andrew Parish
And ergo, where has blackrock pointed associated with this conversation? They have their, they, they have their, they have their Biddle portfolio. Right. And what has happened with that Biddle portfolio? It's gone from 500 million to over a billion in the last few months. Oh, by the way, it hasn't done that just because those assets have got, have gone up 2x. That's not the case at all. So point being is the, the, the basket, the, the opportunity to index this stuff. I absolutely agree with David here that the, the indexing ETFs over the longer term or will be a Bigger play again. Even BlackRock's done that, where they're including their bitcoin product into different versions of their portfolio products across their own, their, their own line and offers to, to institutional clients. So that's where we're headed. It's why I, I wonder, you know, if you're, you know, if you're out there talking about an individual, you know, hbar, etf, like, what, where does, where does that go? I mean, what, what's the reasoning behind supporting it? I don't, I don't know.
- [26:00]
Scott Melker
I should be clear. I think we're in an amazing place that we're having this conversation. I just question if we're in the place where the demand will exist, exist yet. But if that narrative change and that demand does arrive, it'll be incredible that these products exist. David, before I let you go, I just kind of want to give a very brief update on what you're thinking about the market in general. Right. I mean, right now, obviously, as I said, we've had the worst quarter since 2020 for Bitcoin, but still, $87,500 Bitcoin on March 25, 2025 seems really good to me, especially going back a year or even seven or eight months. And altcoins have obviously languished. So, I mean, let's assume we get some sort of macro clarity. What do you think the rest of this cycle or the coming year may likely look like?
- [26:49]
David Young
Yeah, I came into the year moderately optimistic and that view fell flat on its face, so I got that wrong. But of course, trying to reevaluate this, I'm trying to think, do I stick with that constructive view or do I let it go and just kind of like shift into neutral? Like, what do I take for the next quarter, for example? And you know, like, after a lot of, like, soul searching, definitely thinking about how the macro markets are going to develop, I still remain constructive. In fact, I think that probably if this isn't the low, I think we're gonna get the low sometime in the next few weeks, and that'll be the low for the year. And once we get that, I, I mean, like, that will be the opportunity to see new highs later this year. Whether that's going to be in the second half, whether it'll be sooner, I think that's gonna, we have to watch. But I don't believe that the environment, the macro environment itself isn't conducive to this. I think that people are kind of being scared by the idea of like, oh, are we going to see a recession or this, I don't believe in those things. I think that probably we will get a soft patch and it will be fine. But a lot of the positive fiscal developments are going to happen later in the year in terms of like tax cuts, in terms of deregulation. Not to mention that there are a lot of secular trends still in place coming from AI and other things that are like contributing to productivity that I think are going to be there for in a multi year kind of phase that I think are still going to be there. And if the Fed is going to continue increasing liquidity, because it's all about liquidity. And liquidity just came down over the course of almost all of 2024, but really kind of hit starting in July of last year. And we just basically caught up to that trend. Now that we're seeing that liquidity is coming back, I think that we could be in for a much better market probably in the quarters ahead.
- [28:36]
Scott Melker
I mean, I know Raoul Paulo says it, but many do that bitcoin price or asset prices sort of lack liquidity by three months or something. So you see sort of that ramp up and it takes a few months to get it through the system and then all of a sudden assets start rising. It did feel like we were extremely hyperbolic about the drop though, as a community and across the globe for even a 10% correction in the stock market feels like everyone's on a razor's edge of expecting the next depression. Maybe it's just because we've been hearing about the incoming recession that hasn't or maybe has happened for the last few years. It didn't happen that people are just so skittish that every drop feels like the end of the world.
- [29:17]
David Young
Yeah, I mean they're. The two words that I think people are most afraid of is like number one, recession, and number two, if people understand it, the fear of stagflation. And I think based on what the Fed said in the meeting last week, a lot of people started to say, well, is stagflation a possibility given that the projections for growth coming down, inflation are coming up. And I don't believe that's a firm possibility. I don't think we've moved away from this inflationary trend, for example. But it's hugely important to understand this because if you get this right, if you get that macro view right, then you're set for the rest of the year. Because really, like in any given year you're usually playing just like one or two big macro trends. And that is the Key to really getting your portfolio right side up. So I do think that it's going to be hard for crypto to really stage a massive rally until traditional risk assets also are doing better. But if that's the environment we're in, which I do believe is going to happen soon, sooner rather than later, then I think that it's. It still behooves us to, like, need to have a position inside of crypto because once it starts running, you're not gonna be able to catch it. You're gonna try to, like, try to catch that low and like, within like a few hours, it's gonna like break like 20 higher. I'm just making up numbers, but, you know, like, that's, that's the trend we see.
- [30:35]
Scott Melker
Awesome. Well, we kept you three minutes over time. I'm sorry. Actually, it looks like. I know you guys are having the Coinbase sort of conference in New York City in June. I think I'm gonna come up there. Hopefully we can get together in person, bringing a crew covering it. We could do an interview in person if they're listening. I think maybe some time with Brian for the first time ever, maybe.
- [30:57]
David Young
Maybe I don't have that level of influence, but. But yeah, definitely.
- [31:02]
Scott Melker
No, I think. I mean, it's. It's supposed to kind of sort of happen, but I, you know, I don't like to count my. As. My dad always said, you know, don't celebrate the check till it's in the bank, you know, so a lot of those things that are gonna happen. But yeah, I've actually never sat down with him and I have a great question. I need to ask him about a friend of a common friend that we have in person to confirm a story. So that's all I really want. I don't want to talk about crypto. I just want to make sure that my friend is actually telling me the, the truth. But that's what we got for you there. David, man, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to have you on the show. Andrew and I are going to continue on here for a couple more minutes, guys. Give David a follow and hopefully see in June in person. Are you going to Token or any other conferences in between then I'll be.
- [31:43]
David Young
In Paris Blockchain week, if you're going to be there. I think that's in two weeks from now.
- [31:46]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I was supposed to, but actually just confirmed. I don't even know if I should say this either, but I'm supposed to interview Dana White in Miami the same day. So I'm Going to do that, but I would have been in Paris otherwise. But yeah, Paris is an amazing conference. All right, David, I'm let you go. Thanks, man.
- [32:02]
David Young
Thanks, guys.
- [32:03]
Scott Melker
Look, Andrew, I remember the scrolling thing at the bottom.
- [32:06]
Andrew Parish
Dude, that's fantastic. You do good work. You know, if Tillman was here, that picture that I just sent you would have made more sense, right? The photo. That would make more sense, the three of us. But yeah, let's talk about Arch. Yeah, yeah, there it is. You know, I mean, that, that would make more sense. I mean, after. After which one am I. You're. You're definitely. You're definitely the. First of all, you're definitely the. The. I can't remember now, but the captain. You're Captain Gene, right? Because he's just trying to get through life. He's got two jobs, trying to put his son through college. Wants to be a dj, right? He wants to be a dj.
- [32:54]
Scott Melker
Tough out here, man. Tough out here. Anyways, let's. Let's talk about it. That, that was in context, you being like, hey, man, you should bring up this tweet. And I was like, I already got it, dude. Do you think I'm not on top of this? But holy crap, good job.
- [33:07]
Andrew Parish
Yeah. Our algorithms and their executions are. They do exactly what we say that they do, meaning they're just way better than you are at attempting to trade. I mean, period, end of story. And the, the algorithmic, you know, executions, you're. You're seeing them there in, in, in real time. You know, to be able to top tick a green candle at 142, you know, after buying at 128, 127 is, you know, that, that, that's nearly impossible to, to pull off. And so if you're building a Solana position over time, which a lot of people think that they should, but at the same time, they're leveraging volatility to build that accumulation and generate cash yield. That is best case scenario for anybody that's attempting to, to trade. These markets, they're difficult market markets to attempt to trade because they're on 24 7. They never turn off. Some of these executions are in the middle of the night when you're sleeping, or in the middle of dinner when you're having it, whatever it happens to be. There are three reasons why people should, should take real notice of what we're doing. One, our products don't exist anywhere else. We don't have a competitor. These algorithms and the arbitrage strategy and everything that's going on here, there are no competitors to us. This is institutional level tools for retail. And, and by the way, these don't even exist at the institutional level. In crypto. You can't go to an OTC desk or an institutional desk and say, hey, I need to grab a couple of your algorithms and let's make those happen again. That doesn't exist anywhere. So the fact that we're giving you this for free and giving you an opportunity to use these tools with even small amounts of money, when people actually go and do it, their minds are blown. They're like, I'm watching this happen, I'm watching these executions happen. And it's extraordinary. Here's an interesting story about what we do and how we do it that I think will bring it home for people. The last three people that we've hired at Arch Public in the last month, they started using our products, our algorithmic products. On the crypto side, we're so blown away that they sent us emails and said, I've never seen anything like this. This is extraordinary. I want to be involved in something that I think is going to make a difference in some way. Do you guys have opportunities at your firm? And we, we brought those folks on. So it is, you know, what we do and how we do it is something that you should take a real hard look at. And we're incentivizing people beyond it being free. So let's talk about that. We're running a giveaway right now where if you download our free Bitcoin algorithm, which by the way, our Bitcoin, Ethereum and Solana algorithms are all free right now. If you download it and then you follow Arch Public on X tri Arch Public, you're going to be in a giveaway to get two industry passes to the Bitcoin conference. You'll be invited to the, the meal that we have together.
- [36:25]
Scott Melker
I've been at some meals with you guys.
- [36:27]
Andrew Parish
Yeah, you've been at some meals that, you know, I can't prom. Promise anything, but it's possible that Melker may make an appearance. Proverbial meal.
- [36:34]
Scott Melker
It's so fun to eat food that Andrew pays for him to be honest.
- [36:39]
Andrew Parish
Right.
- [36:40]
Scott Melker
We did. We may or may not have ordered the most expensive wine on the menu. Maybe.
- [36:43]
Andrew Parish
Of course, of course. Why not? You know, in that, in that moment, why not?
- [36:48]
Scott Melker
Wasn't even there so we could spend his money too.
- [36:51]
Andrew Parish
Right, Right. So, you know, we're doing a giveaway where if, if you follow us and you begin to use our product, you're gonna, you're Gonna get two industry passes. And by the way, industry passes are significant stuff. At the bitcoin conference, you get to all three days. I love industry day because there's like, you know, 10 of the people. Yeah, yeah, there's 10 of people there. And they're serious people. There's not 50, 000 people. And you're trying to get into rooms. So we're doing a giveaway. Get involved in that giveaway. Get involved with us. Use these products and experience what it is to, you know, reach your goals without having to make difficult decisions associated with fear and greed. What's going to happen next? Am I prepared for what's happened going to happen next? Should I buy? Should I sell? All those conversations are gone because you have an intelligent algorithm that's making those decisions for you. Yeah, we, we love what we do and how we do it, and we want people to be involved. We want people to. To be able to benefit from it. So that's why we give it away for free. Our concierge program also exists if you want to trade more capital, up to 200 other assets.
- [38:05]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I was gonna say somebody asked a question. Now I'm scrolling back to find it, but they said, weren't these fellows promoting a different algo a few months back? What's the difference? Well, listen, we're a crypto show and you guys are innovating and making new things, but all those are still crushing it behind the scenes, and a lot of people end up participating in that. But at the time, it was trade station only and it was trading effectively equities. Right. And you've done the deal with Gemini, offered a free product and moving crypto, which a lot of people watch here.
- [38:31]
Andrew Parish
Yeah, so, so, so there's still there. Yeah, yeah. So there's a reason for that too. The reason for that too, is that our futures algorithms, you know, have a. You have to have a minimum of 10k to get involved. Even on our 99 product, you have to have a minimum of 10k capital portfolio. Not everybody had that with our Bitcoin algorithm or Ethereum and Soul. You can put 700 into your Gemini account and watch it work and buy $50 at a time, sell $20 at a time. Right. So there's a. There's a larger community available to folks on the, on the, on the crypto side. Yeah.
- [39:07]
Scott Melker
I mean, I just want to point out also, like on the big, we showed the Solana performance has been insane, but in context of the fact that I just showed you guys that the last three months have been the worst quarter since 2020 for Bitcoin. Specifically, running the Bitcoin algorithm, you're up 17% on your Bitcoin and earn 77, excuse me, and earn 7% cash on the side in the last 60 days. While Bitcoin has been chopping with extreme fear and panic in the market, this is just in the background earning you cash and more bitcoin at the same time.
- [39:39]
Andrew Parish
That is the question we get asked the most often when people are asking about our concierge program because they're talking about more capital, they're like, well, well, you know, does it beat buy and hold? Why don't I just buy and hold? And so we put out a case study that goes four years back, March of 21 until March of 2025, basically a full epoch. And the point is, is that yes, we beat buy and hold by two and a half times. There was a 270 plus percent return versus 185% return. So there are extraordinary outcomes associated with this. And you're not just trading one algorithm. You have the ability to take the arbitrage strategy and the cash yield that it generates, put that into an intelligent accumulation strategy inside of the bitcoin algorithm. Now you're taking what happens with the arbitrage strategy, you're funneling it back into intelligent accumulation. It's buying more bitcoin. Buy more bitcoin here, buying more bitcoin here. Extraordinary stuff that you simply cannot find anywhere else. And it, and it, and it crushes buy and hold. I mean we could ask that question a million times, which is why we have tons of data that says, yeah, it destroys buy and hold it absolutely.
- [40:54]
Scott Melker
See, there's a scrolly thing at the bottom. People were asking, where do I get it? I'm super scrolling it. It's right there. It's like going across the bottom. It's so easy. I'm pushing it myself. I would speed it up for you guys, but I don't want to like freak you out. But you can also read about it all in the description, right? Lol. They ain't giving you the algo.
- [41:15]
Andrew Parish
Yes, yes we are. I mean that, that's kind of the whole point. We absolutely are giving you the algo. It's free.
- [41:20]
Scott Melker
Instead of just firing off comments if.
- [41:22]
Andrew Parish
Somebody, somebody asked, you know, how come it's free? So we get asked, why is it free if it's free? You know, there's. So what's the back end? The reality is, is we think everybody should own bitcoin. Right. The free algo allows you to buy up to $10,000 worth of Bitcoin annually. Right. That's not a huge number, but it.
- [41:39]
Scott Melker
Is a pretty huge number for most people. That's a. Yeah, yeah.
- [41:42]
Andrew Parish
That is a big number for most people. And if you do that over a five year period, that's $50,000 worth of Bitcoin that you were able to grab with an algo at prices that you wouldn't have been able to do for free. It's five years, use it for free. So that's why we do it. Everybody should have access to bitcoin and own some bitcoin and that's why we do it.
- [42:01]
Scott Melker
I mean the reality is like, and I said it before, but I've been working very closely with you guys since inception.
- [42:07]
Andrew Parish
Right.
- [42:07]
Scott Melker
Like this is like, I, I love you guys. I never would have put this all over the shows this often if it wasn't performing. But there was very constant feedback at the beginning, like I'm not rich enough and I don't trade equities, I don't have a trade station account. So we listened. You listened to what everyone said. You got on a crypto exchange, there will be more. You added more crypto based products, you gave them dollar cost averaging which they're more comfortable with in unique ways with more assets and you made it affordable.
- [42:40]
Andrew Parish
Yeah. And we have more.
- [42:42]
Scott Melker
I wouldn't be hating in the comments when like they listened very clearly to the feedback and gave our audience specifically what they wanted.
- [42:51]
Andrew Parish
Yeah. And there's more assets coming again for free. Next month there's going to be 4, 4 more crypto assets that we add and that, that will, will announce that, that, that people will love. So you already get three for free and you.
- [43:06]
Scott Melker
An idea.
- [43:06]
Andrew Parish
Go ahead.
- [43:07]
Scott Melker
An idea.
- [43:08]
Andrew Parish
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Scott Melker
Should you like. I won't talk about it offline but then like a cash and carry algo, once the, you know, with, with doing basically what the institutions do. I know it's sort of habit, but being able to, when futures going far into Contego, just press a button and buy the spot and short the future and make the same everybody else is making. That's what we should.
- [43:29]
Andrew Parish
As you can imagine, that is in the works. As you can imagine, that's in the work.
- [43:34]
Scott Melker
I mean that's the way that a. That's why I've had outflows for five sustained weeks. Right, but you would have been closing it as well. But I mean imagine like a retail product where you can do all the things we always call It a hedge fund in your pocket, but yeah, giving them that trade, that would be sick.
- [43:50]
Andrew Parish
Yeah.
- [43:50]
Scott Melker
Does Andrew still offer a demo scheduling calendar? I guess I could check the sites.
- [43:54]
Andrew Parish
Yes, I do. And I will tell you that through Thursday it's completely booked, so you'd have to grab something on Friday. It's. It's been extraordinarily busy over the past couple of months because again, this product is very, very popular and people are getting their hands around how powerful it is. Right. Again, this is not just a binary algorithm. This is an algorithm inside of algorithms. You can run five different versions of the algorithm at the same time. So, yeah, sign up, let's do a demo. Love to talk to you.
- [44:31]
Scott Melker
Yeah. There you go, Clint. Guys, that's archpublic.com down below. I'm going to be joining spaces a little late today. As I told you, Andrew, I'm interviewing Charles Hoskinson in 15 minutes. It's been since 2022, since I've done that. If you guys haven't, by the way, been listening to like my. My long form. I, you know, it used to. Before I had. It's funny, before I even had YouTube or started doing daily shows, I had my podcast. It was like a long, four hour long interviews. I mean, I. Now I have to remember myself, but like Sunday was Richard Tang, the CEO of, of Binance. Sunday before that was Sergey Nazarov from Link. Before that, Dan Tapiera. Before that, Stani from Ave. Before that, Scaramucci. Before that, Caitlin Long. I mean, yeah, there's I, you know, short. Short of Coinbase CEO and the tall Gemini guys who we're talking to. Like there's very few people who haven't been on even just in the past few months.
- [45:22]
Andrew Parish
Well, and. And before that, you know, RFK Jr. Right. Serious stuff. You're. You're the best. You're the best in the business. No doubt about it. Hey, hey, hey.
- [45:34]
Scott Melker
I'm not the guy with the gun then. All right, guys, that's what we got. I gotta go take. I'm gonna actually prep for this one. 12 minutes. I never prep for anything. I'm gonna Prep for just 12 minutes. Gotta get some questions in there. All right, guys, check out archpublic.com as it's scrolling right below. Maybe you'll actually get a call with Andrew, his very own self. Otherwise, see you guys tomorrow. Thank you and goodbye, sir.
- [46:03]
Andrew Parish
That's dop.