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Scott Melker
We have a massive breakthrough for Bitcoin and that is that J.P. morgan. Yes, that J.P. morgan led by Bitcoin skeptic, even hater Jamie Dimon is going to allow their customers, their high wealth, high net worth customers to borrow against their crypto, meaning it will be a part of their normal portfolio for securities lending. This is one of the most major unlocks that we could possibly have for the space with institutional and high net worth individuals. We're going to talk about that and everything else that's happening in crypto right now with James Butterfill, hopefully Yago supposed to be here and of course Dan from Chart guys on the back half. Let's go.
Dan
Let's do.
Scott Melker
What is up everybody? I am Scott Melker. As you know, the Wolf of all streets. Like subscribe, do all the things, but you should really be liking our amazing guest. We got Yago. I didn't know if you're gonna make it. You're in the background. And of course, and of course, James Butterfield from Coin Shares. James, let's talk about this first story that I, I mentioned before because I think it's the biggest one and maybe is not getting enough attention. I got to bring my screen up here. We're having a glitch, but here we go. We have JP Morgan plans to offer clients financing against crypto ETFs. You obviously heard what I said about it in the beginning. Is this as big as I think finally?
James Butterfill
Right. They've been preventing their clients from quite a few years and we have some of those clients ourselves from buying Bitcoin ETFs. So it's been a huge frustration for them. But finally they come in line with a lot of other platforms and allow people to buy it. There was this kind of rumor that they were going to launch their own products and that's why they're preventing their clients from buying Bitcoin ETFs. But maybe now that's not true and it's just kind of a risk consideration and it's taken a while for the bureaucracy to move and allow it. But this is good news. They can move in line with other big banks like Goldman Sachs who let their clients buy it.
Scott Melker
Yeah, but this isn't just about buying, right? I mean the ability to include these ETFs as collateral alongside all of your other assets, this is the great unlock for buy, borrow, die for wealthy people, right? So now if you can borrow against it, you don't have to sell it. It reduces selling pressure. So Yago, to me, this is One of those things we waited for, for a very long time to just see it. Now Listen, this is ETFs for now. So it's crypto linked products. This isn't your Spot bought Bitcoin yet, but that is coming very soon.
Yago
I think it's, it's only going to have a muted impact in reality because this kind of product has already been offered by others. But it continues to, it's, it's sort of a continuation of the momentum and the, and the, and the overall sort of what we're seeing in the market where Bitcoin is being consolidated further and further as a true commodity asset accepted by basically everyone.
Scott Melker
Yeah, but JP Market is the largest skeptic that we have. And James, to your point, like they were getting in line to allow the buying and selling to some degree. They already had that for their high net worth clients but for everybody. But to actually be ahead of the curve on the lending side I think is very interesting.
James Butterfill
Yeah, I think who this really helps. Well I was going to say crypto natives but it doesn't because it's ETFs only. But most investors can leverage off the back of assets own and most asset classes. So it is again there is this broader sort of trend happening and it's just part of that. Bitcoin treasury stocks is now a big trend and just a part of a bigger theme of greater corporate and governmental acceptance that I think is incredibly encouraging longer term for Bitcoin prices.
Scott Melker
Yeah. And there's a really interesting piece here on who's actually involved in buying these ETFs. Investment advisors now are the top holders of spot Bitcoin ETFs. Ether ETF demand rises so now we're getting I think a very clear picture of what, why these ETFs are so popular and where that demand is coming from. And this is the answer I think that we wanted which is that if it's investment advisors, this is on behalf of their clients. This is also money that sticks. Right. If you had an investment buyer buying this, you're not flipping these and trading them like a degenerate gambler. You're holding.
James Butterfill
Yeah. So definitely it's known that if you're on the advisor side, so you, you have retail clients that are buying these assets, they tend to be much stickier investors. They tend to have a longer term investment horizon, less so rebalancing strategies. So there's a lot less selling going on in that respect. We've just about to publish actually on the 13F filing data because I think some quite interesting stuff, top level, quarter on quarter. What we've seen actually is a decline in 13F filing holdings of Bitcoin ETFs. But if you look underlying that, we've seen a big increase in the advisor side, big increase from banks and funds and various other things. But hedge funds, we've seen a big decline and what we think is that hedge fund managers have basically unwind, they unwound the basis trade and they're not getting back into it as much as they have done in the past. So I think to be understood, the prices rose to 107,000 at that point at the end of the last quarter. So, you know, you've got to understand that. But I think it's incredibly encouraging to see pretty much every class of advisor or investor type, as you can see in this list here, rise, just with the exception of hedge fund managers.
Scott Melker
Yeah, but that just means. Okay, go ahead.
Yago
Yeah, no, I'm just curious, why do you feel like the hedge funds had to unwind at this point? Is the basis trade no longer attractive?
James Butterfill
The basis trades, it becomes kind of, I think it's better classed as a momentum trade. When the price is strong, you see people really pile into the basis. It's when there's a bigger between the futures and the spot market, it's when they exploited the most. And since then, yes, we have achieved new all time highs. But we're seeing, if I speak to one of my traders like I did this morning, he's in a bit of a negative funk. The volatility is super low, the leverage is lower at the moment. They see less catalysts for upside at the moment and therefore they're in a bit of a negative funk. And so there is less opportunities, I think in the basis trade at the moment, partly because of not really clearly defined price momentum and that kind of lower volatility. And so I think until we see the combination of those two come back, we won't see that basis trade really pick up again.
Scott Melker
So what's so interesting to me here. Yeah, go ahead again. Sorry.
Dan
No, I just.
Yago
It seems to me like what you're saying is that we're actually in the continuation of a consolidation phrase where we're moving from frothy hot money to long term sticky money.
Scott Melker
Yeah, the traders out and the investors in. That's exactly what I was going to say. Isn't that what this indicates?
James Butterfill
Yeah, I mean the fund flows year to date, globally, now sits at before the prior highs and out at 11.6 billion. So really strong inflows, not quite strong as last year, but that could all change, particularly if monetary policy becomes looser this week despite the trades being slightly negative. It's not reflected in fund flows at all. We've seen another 530 million in a week today. But there is a bit of a switch around. There's a bit of a shuffling debt chair as people seem to be buying a lot more Ethereum at the moment.
Scott Melker
What do you make of that?
James Butterfill
Well, there is rumors that BlackRock's buying, selling some Bitcoin and buying some Ethereum.
Scott Melker
I'm not seeing themselves or their clients like BlackRock is literally actively doing that because usually.
James Butterfill
This is a heavy dose of rumor here. Let's carry out. This isn't. I've not seen this in the data just yet, but there's definitely like, aside from blackrock, we've seen seven consecutive weeks of really strong inflows into ethereum totaling nearly $1.6 billion. So there seems to be like a step change in sentiment towards Ethereum and I've not seen for a really long time. With the exception of a little flurry post US Election, this is the best moment for Ethereum, I think, for a couple of years now. And maybe there is evidence to suggest that people are starting to switch a little bit out of Bitcoin and into Ethereum, despite the assets being completely different. Maybe there's evidence of that.
Scott Melker
That's reflective of the good old fashioned crypto cycle though, right? Bitcoin gets boring here, you know, in the hundred thousands, which blows my mind that Bitcoin's apparently boring.
James Butterfill
No one's buying altcoins. The Solana is not popular at all at the moment. I mean, I think it's been marred by institutional investors, by Trump Coin and Melania Coin and all the other kind of nasty coins.
Scott Melker
Having a little ICO action, you know, for like $4 billion. To me, that's a very toppy meme salon.
James Butterfill
Well, absolutely. You know, 80% of volumes on Solana are meme coins, so that is a house card and I think investors realize that. But you know, they do see the, the, the potential in Ethereum and there's this early signs of a turnaround in sentiment there. I'm not sure we can extrapolate that yet, just yet and say now it's altcoin season. I think this, this time around is different.
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean we will have altcoins explode left and right, but it'll be individual ones or very small sectors. And I have my doubt that it'll ever be all of them at once. Because I just don't think there's enough money on the planet anymore to pump the supply of altcoins coming onto the market. And that already exists.
James Butterfill
Well, we're seeing that shift of there's this pool of liquidity, right? And it's moving in different places. And we're theoreticizing now that maybe that money that used to buy altcoins is now perhaps buying bitcoin treasury stocks. If you look at Meta Planet, they're just incredible prices, 800% in the last quarter or something like that, and MicroStrategy and a whole lot of GameStop, a whole lot of others, and they're all getting in on this game because it tends to be incredibly flattering for share prices. And there's a little bit of jitters in the trading floor about that. Is this sustainable? But certainly that seems to be where the hot money is going. It's not going to altcoins, it's going into these.
Scott Melker
You just vindicated my anecdotal theory that I've been saying over and over again, which is that all the hot altcoin money is going into the hot new ICO skinned as Bitcoin treasury companies. But it's the same ICO people, it's the same investors, and they're making 25 X's behind the scene already on bitcoin treasury companies. And that's the money that would have played in the altcoin market so heavily. But clearly this is the trend for now. I think it's hard to say, hey, we've topped on bitcoin treasury companies. I mean, we got NASDAQ listed K pop media firm K wave stock rallying 130% after announcing Bitcoin acquisition strategy. You could take a look over here. I mean, interestingly, the American companies who are doing this right now, their stock seems to go down when they add. But when you get an international company doing this, like a Norwegian company a couple days ago, they go up massively. I think there's a huge market for this abroad.
James Butterfill
What are we talking about when it comes to American companies except GameStop, we're talking about MicroStrategy. He's kind of shot himself in the foot a little bit, hasn't he? Because he's gone around telling everyone all these companies, you must have bitcoin on balance sheet, which I agree with. But then that makes his stock less attractive. It hasn't behaved like the leverage play it has done in the past on the bitcoin price. Bitcoin price was up, Microstratch was flat or down a little bit. And I think it's partly because there's a lot more options for investors in the US now and across the world. If you look in the UK, for instance, retail investors can't buy our ETFs, but they can buy MicroStrategy. I think on Hargreaves, Lansdowne, I think there's some crazy step like 30% of all stock volumes or a microstrategy alone. So it's clear there's demand for it. And the same in Japan. It's hard to buy ETFs, so people express that demand through meta.
Scott Melker
Yeah, I agree. So Iago. But this trend is, like I said, is massively increasing. It's happening all over the world now. It's almost not news. When you get a bitcoin treasury company, there's a. Like three a day.
Yago
Yeah, Yeah. I think there's going to need to be more interesting and more sophisticated plays. And the. The likelihood, in my view, is that where it goes from here is companies going to seek to deliver some kind of return or yield on their holding. We're already seeing 21 and the more recently announced Nakamoto both positioning themselves to try and. And provide that. And so I think that's. That's one plan. And I think what we've been discussing here for a while is there's going to be a compression of the. The premium on the. On. On the nav.
Scott Melker
Yeah, James, that how you think this plays out as well? I mean, it makes sense, right? The more competition you have or you get them trying to compete to get further out on the risk curve, and that's how they blow up. But I think that naturally competition will.
James Butterfill
In our active fund, which two guys on my team run, we've been looking at Bitcoin treasury stocks have been a big theme of ours for the last two years. And trying to find companies that do that has been quite hard, actually. So MicroStrategy has really dominated. And this discussion about where they go next, we haven't quite figured it out. I mean, exactly to your point. I agree. It makes absolute sense that you start lending, almost become bank like in that respect. I do that. I wonder if that's the next move with. So he's not said it yet.
Scott Melker
He said that. I mean, he said he's going to be a bitcoin bank. Right. So is this. Let's circle back to the original topic here. JP Morgan to lend against your crypto. JP Morgan is trying to sort of preempt what's inevitably coming from Sailor here. Right, I'll go. I mean, this is. Sailors laid this playbook out and there's no way the banks want to be left on the outside of that.
James Butterfill
Yeah.
Yago
It'S true, it's true. JP Morgan are competing for that. I think if we see the. The mate, I. I think MicroStrategy would likely be the last player to actually start lending out btc. First of all, they have pole position in the market and second, ideologically, culturally, and also from a structural sort of legal structuring, I don't think they're built for it. Nakamoto 21 are more likely to do that. What that would potentially entail is a substantially more BTC coming onto market, which would mean that the borrowing cost for BTC to be able to borrow BTC would be impacted. And so it'd become cheaper to borrow btc, which might mean more hedge fund activity around btc.
James Butterfill
If you're a bitcoin treasury company, though, you have to think about the next move and it's absolutely right. Some of them considering offering a yield potentially to clients. I mean, Michael Saylor's delivered a yield through his STRK share class. Is that sustainable? I don't think it really is. And it's much easier actually to lend out the Bitcoin. And we can see just in the SEC consultations on ETH recently, there's this huge demand for an ETF that offers you a staking yield. And so if you can own a company that say, 100% Bitcoin treasury stock and nothing does nothing else, has no other forms of income, it then becomes quite important. Quite. You know, if one or two players start doing it, the others have to follow suit, otherwise they will look a lot less attractive.
Yago
I think there's another thing here which we, I, I think are likely to see later in the year, which is that up until now, sort of Binance Coinbase have been the largest places to trade tokens. But we've already seen a Solana treasury company, we've recently seen the introduction of an Ethereum treasury company, and I think that that's going to start moving out towards smaller projects higher up the risk curve. And so by creating these vehicles, I would expect to see more and more tokens effectively. Right. We've been talking about tokenizing equities for years. We're going to be equitizing tokens and the NASDAQ is going to become one of the biggest trading venues for tokens over the course of the coming year I think is a very likely scenario.
Scott Melker
They just want me to be stop token.
James Butterfill
I've always been slightly confused by real world assets because they don't appeal to someone who's outside of the crypto world. They really only sort of tap into the wealth that's been created within onchain and that's who they appeal to. And we're seeing that growth, 23 billion or something in real world assets, which is great. But you're right, suddenly if you can equitize tokens, there's suddenly a whole, there's a huge demand out there. There's $14 trillion of assets in the United States that could start buying this stuff. So I think, yeah, that could be a big thing.
Scott Melker
Yeah, I understand some arguments for real world assets though. I mean, a tokenized equity is largely or existing equ only available to Americans. So unlocking that for everybody around the world by tokenizing in equity and giving faster, cheaper settlements, that, that makes a lot of sense to me. If you're sitting in a foreign country and you want to own Tesla stock and you can't, doesn't a tokenized version unlock massive capital?
James Butterfill
You have to operate as an institutional investor. You can do that because you have to operate on chain. It's very hard for a regulated fund anywhere in the world to kind of operate on chain in that way. If you can operate within your existing financial framework, then a regulated framework, then it's a lot easier to buy stuff. It's still a big hurdle for our fund that's regulated to suddenly start going on chain and buying would be other than our ETFs, of course. It would be very challenging.
Scott Melker
Yeah. We already see though, even the DTCC and the clearinghouses and the incumbents and the third party toll collectors in the United States that, that are deeply entrenched looking at blockchain technology to do this. I think the problem there though is even if we tokenize all these things, as I kind of hinted to, that doesn't mean that there's an investable crypto asset that you can capture that value in. Right. It's the technology being used for faster and cheaper. But it doesn't necessarily mean that some altcoin goes up. Unless it's all like built on Ethereum or Solana or something.
James Butterfill
Yeah, well, there's already that. If you look at the aum, my fund flows work. You can see the Aum and I think something like 90, 95% is in Bitcoin and Ethereum and there's the other 5% go around all the other altcoins. So it's clear investor they have the option to buy. Well, I'd say in Europe, not in the US they have the option to buy a lot of other assets, but they're just not doing it. They're even selling out of XRP now in quite considerable sums. I think XRP has something like 80 weeks of inflows. And now in the last three or four weeks, it's had just constant outflows.
Scott Melker
Yeah, I think all of that makes sense. I want to highlight this story because I think it's obviously a huge one. No surprises here, but stablecoin firm Circles IPO raises 1.1 billion in upsized deal I think they started looking for about 600 million at 24 to 26 a share. Then I saw an offering 27 to 29. They basically ended up at 31 per share with almost twice as much money as anticipated. Obviously a very, very, very bullish market here for stablecoins in the United States. We've talked about that here before. What I actually want to talk about Yago specifically. I had a conversation in Vegas with David Marcus, who obviously launched Spark, and he believes that all stable coins are coming back to Bitcoin. You're building on Bitcoin, obviously, and providing the infrastructure that can allow things like that to happen. So stablecoin seem to be the thing right now, logically. How does that come to Bitcoin? When does it come to Bitcoin? Does it come to Bitcoin? And what does that mean?
Yago
So the primary barrier I think right now for bringing it to Bitcoin is the ability to have programmable tokens on Bitcoin. There are no token standards on Bitcoin today, and that includes BRC 20s and runes, which would really be appropriate for Stablecoins because neither of those are truly fungible token standards, and neither of those allow you to programmatically increase or reduce your issuance. In addition to that, there's obviously sort of the, the throughput and, and speed issue, but that exists on Ethereum as well. And so I think when we start to see financial institutions in earnest begin to bring stable coins, they're going to have effectively three choices. They will either be looking to do it on Ethereum, they'll be looking to do it on Bitcoin, or they'll be looking to launch their own sort of blockchain platform on which to do it. And we'll probably see a mix of these different strategies. One of the things that we're doing right now is building the technology which makes it possible for Bitcoin to be a contender in that space. And I think the big advantage that Bitcoin has is, just as James was, was, was pointing out, the vast majority of financial institutions, their holdings, their AUM and their experience has been with Bitcoin and to a lesser degree with Ethereum rather than anything else. And then going and setting up your own sort of blockchain is a huge infrastructure and marketing lift, which if you look at sort of the experience of other chains, has proven usually to be a failure. And so I think we're ultimately going to see consolidation not just of stable coins, but across the space, more and more into Bitcoin and Ethereum as Bitcoin increases its programmability. And Ethereum sort of is able to play almost the role that Litecoin was playing, you know, the silver to Bitcoin's gold.
Scott Melker
James, what do you make of the idea of stable coins coming to Bitcoin? Is that needed? Is it important?
James Butterfill
This could be huge. I, you know, I had thought that maybe tap route would enable it. I suppose maybe it's the early signs of it being able. The mempool is a bit small. Will it clog up their mempool? I don't know, but I think it could be absolutely massive. And if someone like Circle gets involved in that. Yeah, that'd be incredibly positive. I mean, I was looking at Circle, so I read the stats, I'm like 25 times over subscribed or something. Their timing is just perfect.
Scott Melker
Yeah, I'm very lucky that it was so difficult in the last administration because now the timing is perfect. Yeah, and they tried before.
James Butterfill
The stablecoin market is ripe for disruption. You know, 90% of Bitcoin volumes are on tether, so there's huge. They are killing in terms of, I read their quarterly reports and the income they're making is just incredible. But that does tell you that someone else want a slice of that pie. And yeah, I think Circle is really well positioned to take a lot more market share than it currently has, about 10% market share. It could take a lot more than that, particularly if they can work it out with Bitcoin and a stablecoin of some sorts of.
Scott Melker
Yeah. Before I let you go, Yago, any final thoughts on that?
Yago
No, I, I, I think that, you know, we have two killer apps really, Right. We've got BTC and we've got stable coins and you combine those two and I think James probably, you know, feels the same way I do. That is potentially Huge.
Scott Melker
Absolutely. Guys, we're right up against time, so thank you so much as usual. I will be back Diagonia, of course, next Thursday. And James will have you on soon. Guys, give them a follow. Check out all of the research on Coinshare is really, really powerful stuff. Thank you, gentlemen.
Yago
Thanks, guys.
Scott Melker
All right, guys. And since it is Thursday now, we move on to Dan from chart. Guys, take a look at the actual market, figure out what the hell is going on here. And bitcoin is super, super sideways.
Dan
Yeah, I mean, bulls will take sideways just because, you know, we were at a point where we were riding up daily EMA 12, daily uptrend time, and that did shift. We did confirm a little downtrend. We lost the EMA 12. So that tells us, okay, be ready for weekly consolidation. But the bulls are playing a little defense. We've got the pattern of a higher low every single week. And the bulls did defend it to start this week by, you know, $600. So we got right down to it. Still holding it. And yes, you're right, we are very sideways. And that tells us, you know, if we form a second weekly inside bar in a row over the next few days, then we know next week volatility is going to pick up on bitcoin when this tightening range breaks. And the bulls are comfortable in the sense that even if it's a bear break, we're definitely scouting a weekly higher low. There's a lot of space for it to form. And of course, if we don't break the pattern of a higher low every week, we're heading back up to test all time highs. So bulls are doing a good job playing defense. The NASDAQ has been strong this week. That's only helping. And we're just in a patient wait and see mode to see if this tightening range breaks bear to have us look for that weekly EMA 12 test or can bulls fend off that weekly consolidation again?
Scott Melker
So as bitcoin's been consolidating sideways, as we heard from our previous guests, we're actually seeing some youth action. I never get excited about eth action anymore. But I see you got the charts lined up there.
Dan
Yeah, this is a sideways range. And I've got here, Jeff, Jesse Livermore's pivotal point three theory. And essentially what it is, is, you know, you got a sideways range, you bull break, and then every sideways range, you look for a bull break to get another leg up. And then once the sideways range breaks bare, you know that, you know, a major pivot is underway. And so how that applies to ETH is, you know, we had this sideways range, we got a little leg up, sideways range, leg up. And now we've got another sideways range. And so what he would do, and he's a, you know, famous stock trader from back in the early 1900s, but he was very much into adding to winners where, you know, every time it gets that bull break of a sideways range, he's taken on more position even though he's already got a fat position up a bunch. And so we're just waiting to see how this sideways range breaks. And again, holding on better than bitcoin. We got to see eth BTC break this sideways range, bullish with eth. And it was a little red flag where ETH USD broke resistance. And it's not surprising you don't follow through there because eth BTC did not break resistance. And if you're watching the BTC pairings of altcoins, you can get little clues like that. And it's just essentially a little, hey, you know, be a little cautious because this is not the ideal scenario. If it were ideal and if eth USD were going to see follow through, we would have wanted to see that break as well. But both sideways again, volatility coming probably next week. And considering where we're coming from, the youth bulls are definitely not complaining with the price action.
Scott Melker
Yeah, they got to be happy. So what else are you looking at in the meantime? I see some miners up there.
Dan
I'm still watching. Yeah, I'm still watching for the minor rotation. We had COIN and MSTR leading May or April and May. And I'm just watching for the rotation because I do believe that the MSTR premium has peaked. If you look at MSTR divided by bitcoin, we topped out in November. That. That looked like a peak to me. And now the question is, if we go to the monthly chart, are we setting a monthly lower high to see the premium continue to erode a bit? That remains to be seen. But again, being a trader is all about where's the money rotating to next. And that's of course why we're focused on eth. But for, for these names, you know, Riot just confirmed the first weekly uptrend in six months, Tom, and it's the strongest. It's been comparative to bitcoin in three months. And Wolf is the other miner that's standing out to me as a bit stronger. But they've all had a nice few days here. And so just keeping a close eye, if that is the rotation that is going to take place. And, and another thing that goes along with that is because the miners have been trading so similarly to the altcoin space. Just in the sense that, you know, they've been underperforming and dropping for months and months. I'm going to be watching. Does a shift to miners also coincide with the potential shift towards altcoins? I'm certainly not the one that's been saying alt season all season, alt season and jumping the gun eight times. I'm being very patient and waiting for the signal and for me the signal is the dominance chart, losing the weekly higher lows which have been months in the making. But again, just keeping an eye out for it. And the miners do have my attention after this past week.
Scott Melker
So it'd be kind of dropping below that green candle four weeks ago, right?
Dan
Yeah. If we do that, that's the first significant shift towards looking to altcoins that we've seen in yeah, six, six months.
Scott Melker
So what else you got up there?
Dan
Silver. I've been focusing on silver and the miners and for three weeks it's just been a top watch because again, you know, when you get real tight and just go sideways, volatility is coming. And the reason I like silver is because we were on the verge of breaking a double top and 13 year highs. And so again, as a trader, you know, if something's consolidating, okay, I can keep an eye on it, but I want to be focusing on the things that are breaking the consolidation, tightening range. Bullish. And now we've got silver 13 year highs. The miners, GDXJ GDX, they're hitting 13 year highs. So that's breakout mode now. And the big question for silver is, you know, we've heard silver squeeze a hundred times, you know, the institutional shorts and all that. Well, if there's going to be a silver squeeze, this is the time for it to happen. So we're looking back up, not a ton of resistance levels. 37, 50 and then it starts to open up a bit. 44. But definitely keeping my focus on silver as long as the daily chart is in breakout mode.
Scott Melker
Yeah. And then I see you got one more thing up there.
Dan
It was the miners that just watching them with silver, they'll, they'll keep performing. Gold's just under all time high as well. So yeah, lots of bulls still out there. The NASDAQ is up at bounce highs. So as long as the NASDAQ maintains the daily uptrend, definitely keeping a bull lean and watching that daily uptrend as well.
Scott Melker
Of course we'll keep the bullying. I love it. Thank you, Dan, as always. Well, I actually took you off instead of your chart. That was awkward. Hey, guys, give chart guys a follow. Obviously, on X, YouTube, everywhere else. We always love having you. Come on, you, like, nail it like six. You get through all of it. It's perfect. You give me the time to go to my call on Sirius, which comes right after. Perfect. I really. Guys, go follow him. Seriously. And otherwise, I will be back tomorrow, of course, with the. With the Friday five with nlw. Thanks, man. Have a good one.
James Butterfill
You too.
Scott Melker
Let's go.
Dan
Let's do.
Podcast Summary: "Massive Breakthrough For Bitcoin? JPMorgan To Lend Against Crypto"
Podcast: The Wolf Of All Streets
Host: Scott Melker
Release Date: June 5, 2025
Introduction: A Major Breakthrough for Bitcoin
In this episode of The Wolf Of All Streets, host Scott Melker delves into a significant development in the cryptocurrency landscape: JPMorgan’s decision to allow high-net-worth customers to borrow against their crypto holdings. This move, led by JPMorgan’s traditionally skeptical CEO Jamie Dimon, marks a pivotal moment for Bitcoin’s integration into mainstream financial portfolios.
JPMorgan's Crypto Lending Initiative
Scott Melker kicks off the discussion by highlighting JPMorgan's plans to offer financing against Bitcoin ETFs (Exchange-Traded Funds), emphasizing its potential impact on the crypto market.
“This is one of the most major unlocks that we could possibly have for the space with institutional and high net worth individuals.”
~ Scott Melker [00:01]
James Butterfill from CoinShares elaborates on JPMorgan’s shift, noting the bank’s previous hesitance and the significance of finally aligning with other major financial institutions like Goldman Sachs.
“They’ve been preventing their clients from quite a few years... but this is good news. They can move in line with other big banks like Goldman Sachs who let their clients buy it.”
~ James Butterfill [01:39]
Scott underscores that this development isn’t merely about buying crypto ETFs but also about using them as collateral, which can reduce selling pressure—a crucial factor for Bitcoin's stability and growth.
“The ability to include these ETFs as collateral alongside all of your other assets... this is the great unlock for buy, borrow, die for wealthy people.”
~ Scott Melker [02:42]
Institutional vs. Hedge Fund Involvement in Bitcoin ETFs
The conversation shifts to who is predominantly investing in these Bitcoin ETFs. James Butterfill points out that investment advisors are now the top holders, indicating a trend towards long-term, "sticky" investments rather than speculative trading.
“If you’re on the advisor side... they tend to be much stickier investors. They tend to have a longer term investment horizon...”
~ James Butterfill [04:58]
He further contrasts this with hedge funds, which have shown a decline in holdings, suggesting that the speculative basis trades favored by hedge funds are currently less attractive due to low volatility and reduced catalysts for price movement.
“The basis trades... it becomes kind of, I think it's better classed as a momentum trade... they’re in a bit of a negative funk.”
~ James Butterfill [06:31]
Yago adds to this by interpreting the shift as a move from "frothy hot money" to "long-term sticky money," reinforcing the idea that traders are stepping back while investors remain engaged.
“It seems to me like what you’re saying is that we’re actually in the continuation of a consolidation phase where we’re moving from frothy hot money to long term sticky money.”
~ Yago [07:30]
Shift Towards Ethereum and the Altcoin Landscape
The discussion then transitions to Ethereum (ETH), where James Butterfill notes a significant increase in inflows, suggesting a shifting sentiment among investors.
“We’ve seen seven consecutive weeks of really strong inflows into Ethereum totaling nearly $1.6 billion.”
~ James Butterfill [08:17]
Scott muses on this shift, hinting at a possible "crypto cycle" where excitement moves from Bitcoin to Ethereum as Bitcoin reaches high valuations.
“Bitcoin gets boring here... Bitcoin’s apparently boring.”
~ Scott Melker [09:14]
However, Butterfill cautions that this doesn't necessarily signal an "altcoin season," as the broader ecosystem remains diverse and not all altcoins are benefiting equally.
“I think this time around is different.”
~ James Butterfill [10:08]
Scott reinforces this viewpoint by expressing skepticism about widespread altcoin growth, suggesting that capital is limited and likely concentrated in select sectors or projects.
“I just don’t think there’s enough money on the planet anymore to pump the supply of altcoins coming onto the market.”
~ Scott Melker [10:27]
Bitcoin Treasury Stocks and Fund Rotation
James introduces the concept of Bitcoin treasury stocks, highlighting companies like MicroStrategy and GameStop that hold significant Bitcoin reserves. He discusses the challenges and potential strategies these companies might adopt, such as lending out Bitcoin to generate yields.
“I do wonder if that’s the next move with... some of them considering offering a yield potentially to clients.”
~ James Butterfill [16:11]
Yago adds that as competition increases, Bitcoin treasury companies might need to develop more sophisticated financial products to stay attractive.
“The likelihood... is that companies going to seek to deliver some kind of return or yield on their holding.”
~ Yago [13:15]
Scott observes that the trend is not only prominent in the U.S. but is rapidly spreading globally, noting the positive reception from international markets compared to the more muted response in the U.S.
“There’s a huge market for this abroad.”
~ Scott Melker [12:05]
Stablecoins and Their Integration with Bitcoin
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the future of stablecoins and their potential integration with Bitcoin. Scott highlights Circle’s successful IPO, which raised $1.1 billion, indicating strong market confidence in stablecoins.
“Stablecoin firm Circle’s IPO raises $1.1 billion in upsized deal... very bullish market here for stablecoins in the United States.”
~ Scott Melker [20:38]
Yago discusses the technical barriers to bringing stablecoins directly onto the Bitcoin network, such as the lack of programmable token standards like those on Ethereum. Nevertheless, he remains optimistic about Bitcoin’s increasing programmability and its potential to consolidate as a primary platform for stablecoins.
“We’re ultimately going to see consolidation not just of stable coins, but across the space, more and more into Bitcoin and Ethereum...”
~ Yago [21:32]
James sees the move as potentially monumental, especially if major players like Circle engage with Bitcoin, which could disrupt the current dominance of stablecoins like Tether.
“This could be huge... if someone like Circle gets involved in that. Yeah, that’d be incredibly positive.”
~ James Butterfill [23:42]
Future Outlook: Tokenization and Real-World Assets
The guests explore the broader implications of tokenizing real-world assets on blockchain platforms. Yago envisions a future where equities and other assets are tokenized, potentially unlocking vast amounts of capital from global markets.
“We have two killer apps really, Right. We’ve got BTC and we’ve got stable coins and you combine those two and I think... that is potentially Huge.”
~ Yago [25:03]
James agrees, pointing out the vast untapped market of $14 trillion in U.S. assets that could be brought onto the blockchain through tokenization, significantly expanding the investment landscape.
“There’s $14 trillion of assets in the United States that could start buying this stuff.”
~ James Butterfill [17:56]
Market Analysis with Dan from Chart Guys
In the latter half of the episode, trader Dan from Chart Guys provides a technical analysis of the current crypto market trends:
Bitcoin: Dan notes that Bitcoin is in a sideways consolidation phase, holding a higher low despite minor downtrends. He predicts increased volatility in the coming weeks, contingent on breaking current tightening ranges.
“We are very sideways... the bulls are doing a good job playing defense.”
~ Dan [27:00]
Ethereum: Dan observes similar consolidation in Ethereum but points out mixed signals when comparing ETH/USD with ETH/BTC pairings, suggesting caution.
“If eth USD were going to see follow through, we would have wanted to see that break as well.”
~ Dan [27:11]
Miners and Silver: He highlights recent performances in mining stocks and silver, indicating potential breakout opportunities and watching for momentum shifts that might signal rotation into altcoins.
“The miners do have my attention after this past week.”
~ Dan [30:41]
Dan also touches on the potential for a silver squeeze and the performance of gold, indicating underlying bullish sentiment despite broader market consolidation.
Conclusion: Optimism Amidst Consolidation
Scott Melker wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of JPMorgan’s move and the broader positive trends in institutional adoption and stablecoin integration. The combination of Bitcoin's foundational strength and the evolving financial products around it presents a compelling outlook for the cryptocurrency space.
“Guys, we’re right up against time, so thank you so much as usual.”
~ Scott Melker [25:21]
Final Thoughts
This episode encapsulates a transformative period for Bitcoin and the wider crypto market, driven by institutional acceptance, innovative financial products, and evolving market dynamics. With major players like JPMorgan stepping into the space, coupled with advancements in stablecoin integration and tokenization of real-world assets, the future looks promising for cryptocurrency investors and enthusiasts alike.