← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:01]
Scott Melker
Pump alert. Bitcoin's about to explode. What a title. Obviously, the reason that we're looking for bitcoin to potentially pump and explode and explode in a pump is because we are finally going to get a vote, a final vote in the Senate on the Genius Stablecoin act today, which we'll pass with flying colors. Then we'll go to the House. Pass with flying colors and then we'll go to Donald Trump's desk where it will be signed with said flying colors. Will the Genius act and stablecoin legislation actually move the price of bitcoin? We don't know. But we do know that this is a huge move for the industry. We also have a lot to talk about in the ETF world. And when we want to talk about stablecoins, ETFs and everything else, we bring on Matt Hogan to join myself and Andrew and the ghost of Tillman Holloway. It's gonna be a great show, guys. Let's go.
- [00:51]
Andrew
Let' let's do.
- [01:06]
Scott Melker
Hey guys, you know that I've missed two Macro Mondays in a row, which should be a literal sin. It will never happen again. I will be back for Macro Monday next week, but due to situation beyond my control, had to miss a couple of shows here and there of late. But Noel and Peter joined yesterday with D, Dave and Mike. They held it down admirably. But I'm here today because I can't trust Andrew to be here without me.
- [01:31]
Andrew
No, no, you can't.
- [01:33]
Scott Melker
I wasn't gonna come, but you would have been alone, you know, it would have been you and Matt. It would actually be an interesting, interesting conversation because Tillman didn't show up. Matt, you are not in a hotel room. It's nice to see. Congratulations.
- [01:47]
Matt Hogan
It does happen every once in a while. Gotta go home and do the laundry.
- [01:50]
Scott Melker
Yeah, you know, so, yeah, taking a break, that's important. But I can tell you that whatever you have been doing on the road has been working exceptionally well. I just want to highlight a tweet I saw from Hunter yesterday because. Wow. The bitwise Bitcoin Bitcoin ETF took in 83 million last week. The second most inflows of any Bitcoin ETF globally. Bitwise Ethereum ETPs in US and Europe took in a combined 28 million last week. Investors seem to be taking another look at Ethereum and then all kinds of disclosures because regulation is so stupid. But I mean, listen a, this is indicative of what's happening market wide, right, with ETFs. But you guys being crypto native and being second, you know, we obviously have seen a lot of Fidelity being second and some of the bigger names, but you guys are crushing it. What's going on here?
- [02:40]
Matt Hogan
I appreciate it. Yeah, it's beautiful to see. You know, we've actually had a lot of wins on the national account level. We've had a number of big play platforms that have opened up to us specifically over the last three or four months. I tweeted this a little while ago, but it felt like every week like another $5 trillion of assets opened up to Bitcoin ETFs, and a lot of that was to us. So we're starting to see flows from those platforms, from the Morgan Stanley's, from the Wells Fargos, from the Stifels, from the others. And they like us because we provide research about Bitcoin. Right. That's why they want a specialist provider in amongst the mix. For a while it was just blackrock and Fidelity and now we're starting to make our way in there. So it's beautiful to see.
- [03:24]
Andrew
Yeah, Ronnie, Ronnie kay on the 12th floor there in St. Louis. It's Stifel is they're a leaning forward type of organization. They always have been. Yeah. Opening, opening up the platforms like that is a big deal really. For one reason, it's because ETF buyers, you know, have been taught and it's been pounded in their head, you know, buy low and sell when you die, not sell, sell high. Right. So, you know, the inflows that come in, generally speaking, 90 plus percent of those inflows are going to stay there for a very, very long time. And it's why you, you know, you, you found an ETF company because assets that flow into those ETFs, based on the way that an investor sentiment has adjusted over a period of 30 or 40 years is these aren't traders, they're investors and they're going to stay for a very long time. So those inflows that came into Bitwise's Bitcoin ETF and Ethereum ETF last week, they're not going anywhere. They're staying there for a long, long time. And so, you know, it's the reason why boots on the ground with Bitwise's team associated with opening up national accounts, you know, that that's been the focus for the last 18 months for these guys associated with both, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs being approved. And it's a, you know, it is a strategy that has worked in spades. If I'm not mistaken, you guys have gone from something like 1 billion in assets to 12 plus billion in assets in about, you know, 24 to 36 months. That's an extraordinary, that's, that's extraordinary by any measure. And it has to do with, you know, relationships that you've built at those organizations like Stifel and others.
- [05:21]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, I appreciate that. It does take a while. You know, I, I, it took us three years to get to $100 million in assets. And as Scott just showed, we almost did that last week. You know, you keep pounding. We have an incredible team out there and, and I think these flows will continue. Right. I think these are, these markets are just opening up. There really are trillions of dollars that are just starting to allocate. And you know, I think it's going to be a strong second half of the year for us as well.
- [05:49]
Scott Melker
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean we look at the numbers across the board. This from Coinshares global crypto funds at further 1.9 billion in weekly inflows despite geopolitical tensions. And listen, I don't, we don't get into geopolitics per se here, but it's been a rocky time for markets and these inflows continue upward. I like it. Maybe one thing if it was just kind of sideways, they were slowly trickling off. I think this speaks to the unlocks that you're talking about, which is that this is kind of, we're kind of immune to what's happening in the greater market because there's still just a lot of people on the sidelines who haven't been able to get access and slowly are.
- [06:23]
Matt Hogan
That's right.
- [06:23]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [06:24]
Matt Hogan
We have this secular trend that just overwhelms everything else and I think that will continue for a while. I also think it is worth noting this is a major series of macro shocks and bitcoin is virtually at its all time high.
- [06:38]
Andrew
Right.
- [06:39]
Matt Hogan
That was not the case in previous major macro shocks. This is really the first one where we've experienced that. And we all think. I forgot what the title is. Bitcoin going to the moon or Bitcoin radio?
- [06:50]
Scott Melker
It's pump alert. Bitcoin about to explode. Sir.
- [06:52]
Matt Hogan
Oh, sorry.
- [06:55]
Scott Melker
I was sleeping. My pump alert went off. So we thought we'd make it. Never happened to me before.
- [07:00]
Matt Hogan
But, but I think the reason, I think the reason for that is this is like a, a classic situation where you wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin would sell off. And we're seeing the opposite. We're seeing strong long Term flows. We're seeing it like poking at its all time high. So I think the pump alert is on.
- [07:18]
Andrew
Well, it's, it's, you know, ever since the great financial crisis, we've been in a, let's just call it a generational bull market. You know, whatever the headlines throw at it, you know, the markets just basically brush it off. I mean, we, you know, we've stopped talking about tariffs. You know, there's been some tariff agreements that have finalized and nobody cares. Now we've adjust, you know, we've turned to geopolitics. And again, not only does bitcoin not care, but essentially, you know, we'll get a little bit of a move in today's markets, but overall were at what, you know, we're at significant highs on both the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ or close to them. Right. So there were moments in history where these types of headlines would cause significant shakeout associated with the markets. But again, that goes to investor sentiment. Right. Investors have been taught because of this generational bull market, which you could probably, probably go all the way back to, you know, the dot com bubble where these lessons have been learned. Just keep investing. It's always going to come back. It may take a while for it to come back. You know, it's not fun to hold Amazon when it goes down to, you know, $9, but now it's 30, 40.
- [08:37]
Scott Melker
Years if you're Japanese.
- [08:39]
Andrew
Yeah, so, but at the same time, they've learned those lessons. Investors that are 50, 60, 70 years old, which is the lion's share of, of folks that have 2 to 25 million dollars in their accounts, they have learned over time that anytime there's a dip, all dips are for buying like, you know, whether it's a meme or whether it's reality. That's how people react to dips nowadays. And so again, to the point I made before about bitwise, you know, finding itself on national platforms as quickly as possible, even though it seems like it's taken a long time, they've gotten themselves on these platforms oftentimes first, you know, they benefit because investors are simply like, we want to have access to this stuff. We're going to allocate 1 to 3 or maybe 5% of the portfolio to this asset. And we're just going to keep doing it. We're just going to slowly keep doing it. So whether it's broader markets or whether it's bitcoin, investor sentiment rules the day. You can have all the headlines in the world, but Investor sentiment and the actions that they take is what wins time and time and time again.
- [09:53]
Scott Melker
Yeah. And Matt, I want to switch gears slightly, but stay in the ETF world. It seems like we're getting a bit of a groundswell now for Solana. You and I talked about this on Spaces last week. Obviously we're seeing some success with Ethereum, but it seems like the crowd is now coming for the Solana ETFs. Coinshare shares joins Vaneck Finale and others and race for spots on ETF approval files S1 with SEC. Obviously you guys are far ahead of the curve on this one once again, but we also have Cancer Fitzgerald saying that Solana makes sense as a Treasury asset amid outpacing eth. And we've seen some success, I guess with companies or at least attempts with companies making Solana treasury assets. So is this just kind of the next natural darling for an ETF approval? Because a lot of people say, listen, if we get a Solana etf, you and I joked about this and all of a sudden we start getting Trump ETFs. And I think I made the come rocket ETF joke. But I don't think it slides that far. Just because of Solana.
- [10:52]
Matt Hogan
I don't think it slides that far, but it does open a pretty major door. You and I have talked about this before. The historical precedent for the SEC is there must be a parallel large regulated futures market, right? There was a Bitcoin futures market, so we could get a spot Bitcoin etf, an ETH futures market. So a spot etf. The Solana regulated futures market is nascent and small. So if we do get a Solana etf, I don't think we go all the way down the spectrum, but I do think it opens the door to, you know, relatively broad based exposure. Something more like what we see in Europe where you can get the top 10 crypto assets in ETFs. Ultimately, I'm not sure people want to buy the 10th largest crypto asset in an ETF. It may be that Solana is sort of like the end of the tail. Maybe there's one or two more, but it does look, you know, it looks promising. And based on the filings we're seeing, that's the indication that people are getting closer to approval. There's no guarantee, but it does look like we're going that way. And I think there'll be a bid. I think people will want Solana ETFs. I think index based ETFs are going to be a bigger Deal. But I think, I think people will be excited about Solana ETFs. I think we'll see a bump there too.
- [12:06]
Andrew
Well, if you think about it, in traditional finance, right there, where do all the flows go? Where did they start and where's the lion's share of the flows go? They go to s P500 ETFs. So VVV and Spy, those are the biggest ones that have ever existed. And so again, investors are trained this way. Well, you know what, let me allocate a certain percentage of my capital to the conglomerate of crypto assets. Right. I'll have it covered at that point. There's a major move in either direction. You know what, I'm good. So there aren't a whole lot we don't talk about in traditional finance. The Microsoft etf. Right. We don't talk about the Google etf. I mean, I'm sure there are some weird ones out there, but they don't have meaningful size.
- [12:56]
Scott Melker
I mean, single security ETFs have never really made a thing.
- [12:59]
Andrew
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, you, you can, you can have conversations about 2x long Nvidia or 3x short Nvidia or whatever. But those are trading ETFs that, you know, people goof around with. They, they're not allocating meaning meaningful capital to. That's the same way that ultimately the crypto ETF space will go. People will have allocated to, to Bitcoin and we'll see how it shakes out with Ethereum or Solana or whatever. But you'll find that Bitcoin will stay at the top and probably three years from now there'll be a version of, you know, a conglomerate ETF which will be in second place. That, that, that's my guess.
- [13:41]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, I totally, totally agree with that. And the SEC is looking to uplist. You know, we, we were trying to uplift our index ETF this summer. Grayscale has a similar one that they're working on. There are a few others in the market. I think those, I agree those will be the second biggest products and I think they'll be big. I think they'll have tens of billions, you know, maybe more in assets because it is how most people invest. So I think those will be a big deal.
- [14:07]
Andrew
You know, if I may be the moderator for a moment and ask Matt a question. The reality associated with the growth of Bitcoin ETFs just has blown out every projection that ever existed. I wonder internally with you guys, you know, you guys had, you know, you're publicly have conversations, you're on this podcast, you, you know, you're running around doing speeches all the time. But internally, when this thing started, did you guys ever believe 16 or so months out that we'd be at 125, 130 billion in assets in Bitcoin ETFs? That, that's just astonishing, isn't it?
- [14:48]
Matt Hogan
No way. No way. You know, as, as you guys know, before I was at Bitwise, I was the CEO of ETF.com. i've watched this market for 15 years and it's just, it's so much bigger. I mean, it is astonishing.
- [15:03]
Andrew
Right?
- [15:03]
Matt Hogan
People, people say things like it's the biggest launch of all time, but the degree to which that's true is crazy. Before these, the biggest launch did $6 billion in inflows in year one. Was that GLD? Yes, that was QQQ. GLD was. QQQ did about 3 billion. So it was 6 and 3. And Bitcoin ETFs did 37. I mean, it's, it's, it was 6x the size. It's, it's absolutely incredible. Yeah, I didn't expect it to be this big.
- [15:33]
Andrew
I was around when QQQ was launched and the CNBCs of the world wouldn't shut up about it for like three years. It was the ticker, you know, it was like the second or third ticker that they talked about every day for forever. And again, you just said 3, 6 billion. That's, that was basically about three months of inflows for just Ibit, not to mention the entire sector. Yeah, it's just the demand is extraordinary. And by the way, it hasn't slowed down.
- [16:05]
Matt Hogan
You know, it hasn't slowed down. And I think it'll be bigger this year. I think we're going to end up with more flows this year than we did last year because we're getting these national account approvals. And because I said this before, people who buy bitcoin the first time, that's not the last time they buy bitcoin. So all the people who bought this ETF last year are going from 1% to 3% or 5% now.
- [16:27]
Andrew
Right.
- [16:27]
Matt Hogan
Because they've learned they've seen what it's done in their portfolio. So I think, I think the flows are just going to go up and.
- [16:33]
Andrew
We'Re, we're smack dab in the middle of selling May and go away, by the way. So inflows in, you know. Yeah. In the second week of June of, of that scale are, are really something to pay attention to.
- [16:49]
Matt Hogan
Yeah.
- [16:50]
Andrew
You know, you, you don't often get escalating inflows into an asset, you know, effectively, you know, at the beginning to slash middle of summer. This doesn't happen.
- [17:01]
Matt Hogan
No. And big numbers. I mean the one thing about crypto is we, we get anesthetized to these numbers. We did a billion dollars in bitcoin ETF flows in the last five days. It's totally, dude, totally nuts.
- [17:13]
Scott Melker
I mean if we're going to do that thing, talk about becoming immune to things just as a quick pivot. I mean, this guy. Where is it? Come on. It's not working. There it goes. He bought a billion bucks just casually on a Monday. I don't know if I'm glitching a little bit, I don't know if it's glitching for you guys, but a billion bucks, man, 10,000 Bitcoin on just, you know, it's Monday, need 10,000 more Bitcoin. We're literally immune to anything with a billion in it. I remember when that was a lot of money, right?
- [17:42]
Matt Hogan
It's totally crazy. You know, I tell this to Ethereum people all the time. Ethereum is a 300 billion dollar startup 10 years into its growth. It's like the most successful startup launch of all time. And Ethereum people are all sad. No, you're doing just fine. Like 300 billion is a lot.
- [17:59]
Andrew
Right?
- [17:59]
Matt Hogan
Like you're doing just fine. You're only 10 years in. If you were a company, you'd be amazed. So we do get an exercise to these numbers.
- [18:08]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean, speaking of things that are doing just fine, let's pivot to stablecoins, which are likely to get some legislation today. But I mean, circle if you want a barometer for what's happening with institutional appetite for crypto exposure and specifically around stablecoins. I mean, holy wow, man, this thing was up to 165. It's trading at 151 bucks. This is wild. Wow. 157 pre market. Like I've said many times, friends were sending me screenshots that this was available on Robin Hood pre IPO 12 hours before the launch for $27.
- [18:42]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean this is wild that that's not going to slow down the crypto IPO market. Let, let, let's put it mildly. The crypto IPO market over the summer and then into the fall is going to be sort of shock and awe if I can borrow a term from Dick Cheney. So it's not going to slow down the pipeline. And Matt knows this. On Wall street, you have a slate of IPOs that you have on the table and that you're working with, that you know that Wall street is working with and the companies that do IPOs that are working with. If the beginning of that IPO slate goes terrible, those all get pushed back by like a month or two or three. Or do we?
- [19:37]
Scott Melker
You need perfect market conditions for launch. Welcome to crypto also, by the way.
- [19:43]
Andrew
But if Circle happens, all of those get pushed up. They get pushed up. So these are all probably going to happen even faster than they were were going to in the first place, because you don't get immediate, like immediate that's gonna happen.
- [19:59]
Scott Melker
Tron is going public. I did not have that on any bingo card that ever existed on the planet.
- [20:07]
Andrew
Why? What's the reason why? And you know this, Scott, because you talk about it a lot. They're essentially, you know, the Tron stablecoin movement. Right? I mean, that, that's, that's the, that's the narrative because Circle did, you know, it's gone up 300. So what is Tron going to talk about when they do their IPO? Oh, our stablecoin does 27,000 billion dollars across the rest of the globe. And, and, and we're first in line when it comes to, to global movement associated with stable coins. That's what they're going to talk about, right? That's what they're going to talk about.
- [20:41]
Matt Hogan
100 and they're charging, you know, they're charging 5 or 6x the fee that you're seeing on layer twos, and they're holding those margins like. It is actually a remarkable business story. Yeah, completely crazy. You're, you're absolutely right. The IPO window is going to explode. The second corollary that is venture capital is going to explode as well, because all of a sudden my PE comp is not 20, it's a hundred. Right. So the valuation window jumps up and then these companies flush with cash are going to do significant M and A. And absolutely, you're going to see all these companies rush. I mean, it is going to be a gold rush for Wall Street. And I think the demand is, is really significant. You know, for what it's worth, when we go and talk to institutional investors, the story about stable coins is, is like, you know, setting candy in front of them. I mean, they can't get enough of it. They all want to invest in it. So I'm not surprised at Circle. I'm not surprised at Tron even though it makes us, you know, remember we're living in a simulation. But I do think it's going to be, I think it's going to be explosive. You're going to see, you know, a dozen companies come to market pretty quickly.
- [21:57]
Andrew
Yeah. And again, that liquidity into crypto again is, provides a base layer associated with, with price movement. Right there. There's now like four or five levels of base layers associated with just, you know, go all the way to the top with Bitcoin price. Right. We've got treasury companies, we've got BTC ETF inflows, we've got companies going public. And where do they put all that new money that's floating around that's called equity shares that they now hold that are up 4x from where they, they actually got it and that's going to continue. So that's just three base layers of fresh continued capital that's flowing in the crypto space way beyond anything we've ever seen before. So it's a, you know, here's a question.
- [22:46]
Scott Melker
Bitcoin treasury companies are obviously all the rage. We have a new announcement, I think basically every single day about one of these. Right. Just too hard to even keep up at this point. But I'm actually a bit surprised that they haven't been using ETFs to do it. Like they're actually buying bitcoin most of these. Right. I mean, do you think we're going to see a trend where it's just easier for them to buy Bitwise ETF as a Bitcoin treasury company than to buy and custody Spot? I'm not saying which one would be better or worse. I mean, I think we're all here for people buying Spot Bitcoin and custody. Right. Even you as a at Bitwise. But I'm surprised that hasn't been a bigger trend. Maybe it just isn't as marketable yet.
- [23:28]
Matt Hogan
I think that may be it. I think, I think it may be a marketable question. I do think it's more efficient for some of them to gain exposure through the etf, depending on their size and scale, Certainly for the smaller players, you know, we've had conversations with a few folks and they haven't, they haven't gone anywhere. I do think it's that marketable question. You know, I wouldn't be surprised.
- [23:51]
Scott Melker
The Maxis would lose their minds.
- [23:53]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, the Maxis would lose their minds. They would call it not a real treasury company. Right. And screen paper Bitcoin at the top of their lungs. Even though it's not true. But these are effectively marketing engines. So maybe that is the reason.
- [24:10]
Scott Melker
Yeah, Long Island Blockchain iced tea. Yeah.
- [24:13]
Andrew
Well, it's interesting because we're probably three to six months away where we, we, there's a, there's an adjustment to the whole process with how Bitcoin ETFs buy and sell spot bitcoin because cash create will go away. And so how do you make the claim that it's paper bitcoin at that point that, that you can't, you can't make the claim. Right.
- [24:39]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, I, I, well, I don't know. Having watched the gold ETFs for years and people have claimed that they haven't bought gold. These conspiracy theories can last a very long time. But you're right, we're going to move to in kind Creations. And anyway it's not, you know, we publish our bitcoin addresses. You can go online, you can see our bitcoin is right there. So you know, it is, it is a, a false claim. But yeah, look, I think this trend is going to continue. I know a lot of people think we're at peak Bitcoin Treasury. I think peak Bitcoin treasury company is, is still three to six months ahead from now. There are a lot of deals coming through the pipeline. For every one you see announced, there are three in my inbox talking about their pipe.
- [25:25]
Scott Melker
So there's going to be hundreds.
- [25:28]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, they're going to be hundreds. And eventually some of them will trade at discounts to their net asset value. And, and it'll be interesting to see what happens. But it's, it's, this is a trend that's going to continue. It's going to accelerate in the fall.
- [25:41]
Andrew
Well, and there's a difference between bitcoin treasury companies and bitcoin balance sheet companies. Right. I think that trend is going to have a longer tail because you can be any company that's public or not public and you're putting 10, 15, 5, whatever percentage into Bitcoin associated with your revenues or net profits or whatever it happens to be and you're getting a significant benefit to the valuation of the company in the short and long term associated with that move on your balance sheet. I think that is going to be, that, that will be a longer term trend and we're seeing a ton of that. I mean, heck, at little old large public. I mean we're working three deals right now where national companies are putting bitcoin on their balance sheet and they're looking to us and saying, hey, can, can we you help us raise some capital for this and can we use your product to, you know, intelligently scale in whenever we're making these purchases? So, you know, show up at the bitcoin conference this year and stuff will just fall into your lap.
- [26:47]
Scott Melker
Not that I'm trying to give away privilege information, but I got a couple more of those coming your way. There you go. I, I do think names, but yeah, it's, it's.
- [26:56]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, I think there'll be thousands of those. I think there are already companies that are doing it that you don't know about. I mean, we pay ourselves in the Bitcoin ETF in Bitcoin @ Bitron. We take.
- [27:05]
Scott Melker
Quickly. Matt, when you say thousands of them, do you think if we're making that differentiation between treasury companies and balance sheet companies, do you think there'll be thousands of treasury companies like people that are financially engineering their balance sheet to buy bitcoin? You're saying there'll be thousands of companies that say, hey, this is better than cash. If I put 5%, this same thing that any investor should do.
- [27:24]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, the latter. Yeah. No, we don't, we don't need a million bitcoin treasury companies. We're oversaturated there.
- [27:31]
Scott Melker
Well, we're gna get a lot though.
- [27:32]
Andrew
If Tillman was here, he, he does a better job of explaining it. But if, if, let's say you're a franchise of some sort, right? And half of your franchises are putting 10% of their profits into bitcoin and the other half aren't, which of those franchises, over a three to five year period, which group is, is, is one worth more, right? It's, there's a, it's a no brainer, right? It's an absolute no brainer. It's the, it's the group that has put bitcoin on their balance sheet, right? And you can do that for any company anywhere, no matter what industry that they're involved in that now the base value associated with that entity is, is coupled with the bitcoin that they hold on their balance sheet. Even if their business just absolutely, you know, stops working, they still have bitcoin left over as the value associated with that entity. Right. It's no different 25 years ago if you had a business that went belly up, but they owned 74 commercial buildings in Los Angeles, New York City and Chicago, right? Oh, okay. I don't care what the business does that's valuable and it has value. And so we're going to Buy that company based on the value of its commercial real estate. Now, that's not the case anymore. Commercial real estate isn't what it used to be, but Bitcoin certainly is and will certainly continue to be. And so that's the story. Right, with balance sheet type companies.
- [29:05]
Matt Hogan
Yep.
- [29:06]
Scott Melker
Yeah. We have to go back to stablecoins. Before I let you go, Matt, I hope you can stay a couple more minutes because we didn't even talk about the Genius act yet, but Genius stablecoin Act headed to final vote in US Senate amid scrutiny of Trump's crypto interest. So it does look like this is going to happen. So this is the Senate, obviously, which means it'll need to pass the House, which I'm sure it'll get some sort of revisions over there, but we know that this will get signed into law if it hits Trump's desk. Desk. Last time I looked, this had like 68 votes in the Senate, which is like seeing a unicorn on Mars seaside apartment. It's impossible to get that kind of bipartisan support for anything. So this should pass, even with Democrats losing their minds over Trump's interest in the crypto industry and his obviously potential conflicts of interest there, as they would say.
- [29:58]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, and it's a, it's a massive deal for a couple reasons. I mean, it does show, yeah, it's unique, that crypto is the only thing that can unite America on a bipartisan basis. It's kind of a beautiful thing. You know, look, it's really important for crypto, broadly, to get our first positive piece of crypto legislation. I don't think we can overlook the degree to which that's important. I do think it's a catalyst for why I'm really optimistic for the second half of the year. And then obviously stablecoins are going to be everywhere. I think it's worth investors sort of closing their mind and imagining a world where every investor has a crypto wallet or every person in America or, or every person around the world has a crypto wallet, because that's the world we're going to live in in a couple years as Stablecoins go from 250 billion to 2 and a half trillion to 10, 20 trillion dollars, which is the direction they're on, and every major firm. And just think about what that world means. That means you're one. One click adjacent to DeFi. Yeah, exactly. J.P. morgan, right. Everyone, yeah, Hell freezes over. But, you know, but here we are inevitable. Everyone's going to be one click away from Defi. They're going to be one click away from bitcoin. Crypto is going to be completely normalized. People aren't even going to think about it. Single sign on with a crypto wallet onto every major shopping and website is going to be how people interact with the Internet. That's the world we're going to be in in two to three years. And what does that mean for the value of these other assets? I think it's extraordinarily bullish for defi. I think it's quite bullish for bitcoin. I think it's bullish for a number of other assets as well. I think it's a really big deal.
- [31:45]
Andrew
Well, it, it's why the speakers so, so to. At the, the Coinbase conference last week were of interest. Right. So Shopify was there, the CEO of Shopify, talking about, you know, stablecoin usage inside of their ecosystem. Well, if you haven't noticed, Shopify runs like two thirds of all website shopping.
- [32:07]
Scott Melker
I think they're doing it with base.
- [32:08]
Andrew
By the way, forever. Yeah, right. So, so that, that it's going to be ubiquitous, if for no other reason than cost savings. You know, and again, to, to, to Matt's point that, you know, we're, we're going to hit an inflection point. You know, PayPal, you know, has, we're already there with PayPal Cash App. It'll come, it'll come to all these apps fully integrated. Right. It'll come to every app that you use that has anything to do with a buck. And so no different than the. It'll. It'll happen so much faster than say, cash to credit cards or cash to debit cards. Right? So much faster. I mean, that took, let's call it a decade. This will take 18 months.
- [32:54]
Scott Melker
I like Matt's point, obviously, about the future of everybody having a crypto wallet. And I think then that's just one step because I think the next step with real world asset integration and the explosion of stablecoins is that everybody just has a wallet and they don't even know it's necessarily a wallet. You just do everything in there. You trade your stocks because they're tokenized and you, you know, you can move around your assets, you can take loans against it. Maybe I'm crazy, but I really do think that that's the eventual future that we're looking at.
- [33:22]
Matt Hogan
I think that's absolutely right. And I sort of always wondered how we would get to that future, what the path would be. But this is clearly the path, right? This is the, this is the giant leap that gets everyone into the ecosystem. And then all of those other things become infinitely easier once everyone has their crypto wallet integrated with their bank account and their browser, etc. Which is where we're going to be, right? All of a sudden, all those things are just half a click away. As opposed to like, what. What is a wallet? What is the seat that's just going.
- [33:53]
Scott Melker
To be your wallet? That's the point is we'll find the abstract away, the crypto and the blockchain and the NFT and the. Yeah. Chain and all of it. It's just gonna work. And that's where you're gonna.
- [34:03]
Andrew
And we'll, we'll go through iterations though, too, because traditional finance will. They'll put up some roadblocks along the way.
- [34:10]
Scott Melker
We'll also blow it like five times on that path ourselves, repeatedly in the feet.
- [34:16]
Andrew
So, for example. And again, Matt knows this, in traditional finance, if you're going to move money from your Merrill lynch account and move it over to ubs, there's a thing called an ACAT transfer. It's not any fun, right? You got to fill out paperwork, your assets are moving, and it doesn't matter what the price does in the time frame that it's moving for two or three or four days from one firm to another. They make it intentionally difficult to do because no company wants to give up a seven million dollar account to another company. Now, is. Is that ripe for disruption associated with a, you know, a quote unquote crypto wallet or tokenized assets, all of those things? Absolutely, it is. But that's an area where, again, you know, traditional finance will. Will put up some roadblocks, right? Like, oh, okay, yeah, you can move some dollars back and forth on this whole stable coin thing. That's pretty cool. But I think we'll keep our paperwork associated with some of this other.
- [35:13]
Scott Melker
Yeah, dude, it's not, it's not like the GTCC and Citadel and friends are gonna just move over and say, hey, you know what? This is better. Let's not make money anymore.
- [35:22]
Matt Hogan
It won't go easy. We'll still be doing medallion guarantees in five years. But we're. We're making progress.
- [35:29]
Andrew
Yes, we are. Yes, we are.
- [35:31]
Scott Melker
Matt, before I let you go, anything else on your radar we might have missed that you're looking at, you know, specifically from Bitwise's perspective or just something exciting on your radar?
- [35:40]
Matt Hogan
Yeah, we're really excited about this index opportunity. Assuming it happens, you know, we'll, we'll find out from The SEC from that perspective. Otherwise, you know, after this week at home, Scott, it's back on the road. I fly out Sunday. So, you know, there are more. There are more national accounts to open. We're just going to do the same thing for the rest of the year, meet with all these investors, get them off zero. And I think it's going to be.
- [36:02]
Scott Melker
I know it's in the interest of Bitwise, but like, I think you as a company, but you yourself, just seeing your schedule and talking to you, are doing more to push this industry forward than literally almost anyone. And really, I. It deserves a. I mean, I don't know if we can do a round of applause. I have a foghorn. I can't tell if it worked. I do have an air horn plus for Jamaican reggae DJing. But seriously, like you, like I said, I mean, I know it's so that you can beat the other issuers and you can be the one that. The winner, but the. You're unlocking more bitcoiners on the planet than anyone else. Even more than Sailor, I would say.
- [36:39]
Matt Hogan
I don't know about that, but I, I appreciate the kind words. We're doing. We're doing our best. We're doing our best. Takes a village. Takes all of us. You guys, too. So we'll keep. We'll keep.
- [36:49]
Scott Melker
Well, we love watching it from close and from afar, obviously. And you know, you're on TV every day, so we can always find you. It's amazing. And if you're not randomly seeing Matt on tv, please give him a follow on. On X because absolutely great content. Incredible. Thank you, man. And enjoy your time home.
- [37:07]
Matt Hogan
Thanks, guys. Good to see you.
- [37:09]
Andrew
You bet.
- [37:10]
Scott Melker
All right, Andrew, I'm doing again. Look.
- [37:13]
Andrew
You hear it?
- [37:14]
Scott Melker
I can't hear it. It's not in my headphones.
- [37:16]
Andrew
That's. That, that's a Gen X moment right there. I mean, we, we kind of created that foghorn. I'm being honest. It's, you know, bitwise, I, I've gotta say, there's a lot of crossover between my old world of tradfi and what Bitwise does now in the. The world that I live in. And it's. It's really cool to watch them, you know, get in rooms with people that I've known for a long time, you know, off air. He's in Maine, and Cheryl Penny's the CEO of Dynasty Financial, which is a really, really big RIA platform. And I've known Cheryl for, I don't know, 15 years.
- [37:57]
Scott Melker
Cheryl.
- [37:58]
Andrew
Yeah, Cheryl. S H I R L. Cheryl don't know the genesis of the.
- [38:05]
Scott Melker
Cheryl.
- [38:06]
Andrew
Yeah. Not Cheryl. No, not at all. I'm sure it's been. I'm sure he's been called that a time or two.
- [38:10]
Scott Melker
Cheryl.
- [38:11]
Andrew
He has uncomfortable conversations, but girl, he has. Yeah, it's. The work that they do is extraordinary. You know, with Stifel, you know that we mentioned.
- [38:31]
Scott Melker
That's not a real world.
- [38:32]
Andrew
Yeah. Being on this, Being on the. Being on the 12th floor in St. Louis. I was around Stifel when they bought that building, and they build out the 12th floor floor, and it's almost built like a spaceship. The conference room is circular. It's just. It's just cool to know that they're in those rooms making meaningful impacts.
- [38:53]
Scott Melker
Our people are so mad about the air horn. They used to like it. Now everybody's like, dude, I'm driving. Like, I thought the police were here. Driving a lot of my headphones. You guys are old. Have fun. Hey, dude. Okay, well, we're about to talk about arch public. But look there. I just saw a new button on streamyard above. It says, show comments on stage.
- [39:10]
Andrew
Beta, Beta.
- [39:13]
Scott Melker
Should I hit it and just see what happens?
- [39:15]
Andrew
Fire it up, see what happens.
- [39:16]
Scott Melker
Comments, take the stage live. Comments, reviewers will appear on screen.
- [39:19]
Andrew
Yeah, there it is.
- [39:19]
Matt Hogan
There it is.
- [39:20]
Scott Melker
A little conversation going and make. Oh, they're. But they're tiny.
- [39:23]
Andrew
Yeah, it's tiny. You really can't see.
- [39:25]
Scott Melker
Read that. That's cool, though. I like that. I like that. Look, you guys can get famous. Des and Queen. You guys are famous right now. Anyway, so should we talk about the thing? Nobody wanted to talk about anything else, actually. They didn't even want Matt here. They just wanted us to tell them about the performance of our public.
- [39:47]
Andrew
Right?
- [39:48]
Scott Melker
So they're dying. I mean, they can't. Like, it's like, it's almost uncomfortable. They want it so bad.
- [39:52]
Andrew
Yeah, so we. We had our. Our data and research guys do some work yesterday and just take a look at, look at the last 60 days, right? Because I. I don't know what day we're at where we've been above a hundred, but it's a pretty extended period at this point, so. But there has been volatility, right? There has been significant.
- [40:15]
Scott Melker
May 8th, it looks like. So, yeah, we're about five and a half weeks into that. Staying above 100, that's significant. Back to this. Sorry.
- [40:24]
Andrew
So. So, you know, what does volatility mean? So we, we talk about our bitcoin algorithm. We talk about a specific strategy associated with yield, right? It's our bitcoin yield algorithm that does 20 a year in yield and 25 CAGR in terms of total return. But just in the last 60 days, you know, we see Bitcoin, that's, that's done 8% in yield. We see Solana, that's done better than 8%. XRP, that's done better than 8 percent. So just, you know, what does that mean? That simply means that you're using volatility to extract cash yield from your crypto holdings. Right. We always get the question when we talk about, you know, where does the yield come from? Where does it come from? And of course, trolls on, on Twitter, where's the yield?
- [41:14]
Scott Melker
Apparently I am the yield. According to them, if I don't know where it's coming from, I am the yield. And I did actually that, that's a good lesson because Voyager, it is, it is a very. It's different here.
- [41:23]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [41:23]
Scott Melker
This time is different.
- [41:24]
Andrew
So the point being is, it's a very simple answer. Where does yield come from? It comes from volatility, right, that you, you get volatility in these assets significantly more than traditional financial assets, and then you harvest yield from that volatility while continuing to build a bigger and bigger and bigger stack of that particular asset. Right. So you're building a huge stack of Bitcoin, but you're also generating cash yield. It's just a question of how you want to use that yield. Do you want it for lifestyle purposes? Do you want it to build a bigger stack of Bitcoin? Do you want to use it on another algorithm of some sort and build a stack of solana? Because the ETFs are coming and maybe Solana goes to new all time highs. So it's just a question of how do you want to do it and the ability to compound on top of compounding, on top of compounding. When you get into our sort of ecosystem and work with our team and see that you can be running seven different versions of algorithms that are working in tandem with each other to create yield to accumulate these assets so that you get into a mindset. We have customers that are this way now and they thank us for our products turning their mindset into something different. If it goes up, I'm thrilled. If it goes down, I'm just as thrilled. Because I know, yeah, I know it's doing. It's going to be taking trades for me and accumulating in ways that I emotionally would not be able to do. And I'll share one story that proves that we were Talking with a customer that was going to come onto our concierge program. They had like 14 bitcoin at the time. And this is when we were down in the 80s and we had to move lower into the 70s. We talked to that customer. Two days later we talked to that customer again. He said, well, I was going to do it, but I kind of panicked and I sold all 14 of my Bitcoin at 74 and change. Right? Yeah. So guy that's built up years and years of investing into bitcoin and building a stack and in one moment he panic sells at 74. So I think it's going to 60s or the 50s because his emotions. It's very difficult to manage your emotions associated with fear and greedy. Our products do that for you. And you can turn your emotions off knowing that, hey, if it moves one percentage or another, the algorithm is going to make a decision. Go ahead.
- [43:56]
Scott Melker
Could he have. Okay, so I, I obviously run. Okay. First I want to run a bigger public portfolio. There's something you and I have talked about maybe with the next launch portfolio. But I'm just going to start running this big and very public.
- [44:08]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [44:09]
Scott Melker
And then somebody's going to hack me and kill. Try to kill me or something. But can you deposit both dollars? Can you take a core bitcoin position, deposit it into the exchange and trade around your existing position? A lot of people do that. I know you can. This is anecdotal. You know, just asking for the rhetorical, I should say, but. And then. Or most people just depositing cash to start a position. How are people generally using it?
- [44:36]
Andrew
Most people are depositing a larger portion of bitcoin and then they add a bit of cash. Because a lot of people are using our arbitrage strategy. And so the arbitrage strategy is going to both buy and sell. It's going to buy more than it sells. That's why it's arbitrage to the upside. So you're accumulating a. A larger position, but you want to have a small cash position in there. So when there is an opportunity. So that guy, when it bounced to 74,8 and he hit sell all of my bitcoin, if he'd have been using our arbitrage strategy, he would have purchased more bitcoin in that moment and not sold any. Right. So therein is the difference. Right.
- [45:16]
Scott Melker
Okay. So what if I just thinking out loud, let's say we just for round numbers, I'm asking the audience. This will be interesting. If I deposited one bitcoin and an Equivalent amount of dollars, and we see how it goes. Absolutely, yeah. So basically, $105,000 in Bitcoin, $105,000 in cash. Guys, I'm freestyling here, but I want to wait till. Nothing against Gemini, but I happen to know what's coming, and I think it'll be good to do it with some of the future partners. Just for fun. I highly recommend Gemini as well and see how it goes. Or most people would it be, like, do a bitcoin, then add, like, 20 grand. You know what I mean? Like, is it equivalent? Where can I maximize what we're showing off here?
- [45:57]
Andrew
What you're doing is you're giving people a very, very unintentionally good commercial for our concierge program because you're able to ask all those questions inside of 15, 30, 45 minutes, and they'll say, well, if you deposit 80% of your assets in Bitcoin and 20 in cash, this is what it has done in the last six months. So, you know, maybe that. Maybe that's fine for you. If you flip it in 80 cash and 20 bitcoin, this is what it would have done. If you go 50, 50, this is what it would have done. Because all of our stuff connects to tradingview, and we can spin out things like that.
- [46:35]
Scott Melker
We're doing it to show it off. Right. So if we're doing it to show it off because we know that people can do a million instances of this.
- [46:42]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [46:43]
Scott Melker
Since I have you here on the specific. Because I have you here on this customer service call, would I run your base layer algorithm? Would we do a whole.
- [46:51]
Andrew
It would be.
- [46:52]
Scott Melker
Should I get aggressive with it? We're trying to show it off, so people want to use it.
- [46:56]
Andrew
So here's what. Here's what I would tell you to do. You'd use the bitcoin arbitrage strategy. You'd also use the Solana arbitrage strategy. You're going to get a lot of action on Solana because it's more volatile than bitcoin. Right. And then you can take the yield that you get from bitcoin, which is significant. Get from Solana, which is significant. Bitcoin, Put it back into that arbitrage strategy. On Bitcoin, it's compounding on top of compounding on top of compounding.
- [47:22]
Scott Melker
Seriously, guys, I'm asking seriously to the chat, and I can see you on Andrew's face, so I know you're there. Would that be interesting to you? Because I know every once in a while people are like, you're talking about it every week. Like if I just. And we, and we started with the equity portfolio, which by the way is still up 40%. So. Awesome. But this is obviously where the focus has gone because it's a crypto show and we're bitcoiners and the goal was always to get more bitcoin. Like, would that be more interesting for you for our Tuesday show to every week be able to just.
- [47:52]
Andrew
Oh, I think so. Show the screen in the chat. I think if, if we talked about and showed your portfolio moving, which by the way, John Deaton does portions of that where he just shows his trades on Twitter. You know, he just watches it happen, right? He just.
- [48:09]
Scott Melker
Yeah, we're just gonna run it. Yeah, we're gonna run it. I'm gonna put like 200 grand in there or something and we're gonna run it. I'm gonna go 50, 50 and we'll see. And we can benchmark it to what if I just bought a hundred, you know, bought one more bitcoin with the cash at that moment and I would say that would be our benchmark. Do I end up with more bitcoin? And by the way, I, like I said, I'm running this in the background, so I kind of know the answer, but anything could happen in the future. So this is us putting our mouth, money where our mouth is to some degree because if it went bad, that would be pretty embarrassing.
- [48:39]
Andrew
Well, here's the thing. It's going to, the, the, the algos are going to do what you say that, you know, so you've got bids down at 88 for Bitcoin. Bitcoin, right. So you're going to see is, is, you know, Scott Melker's intuition better or just as good as arch Public's algorithms. When we get to that spot, are you, you know, are you, are you going to be right or do we go down to 86. 5 and the algorithms buy more for you down, down there after it's gone? You see what I mean? That, that, that's, that that'll be the telltale sort of sign that again, there's so many stories of people that are using our, you know, we've got more than 3,000 people that are using our, our products at this point. And so the, the fact of the matter is, is that the proof's in the pudding, right? There's nobody, there's nobody on X or online anywhere saying, hey, what these guys say is not true, that, that this doesn't do what it's supposed to Do. Everybody says that it does what it does and if they have the capital to use it at a higher level, they absolutely do. In a three to six week period, they get on our free version. Oh wow. It took a trade. A trade, a trade, a trade. When I probably would not have been able to make those trades because I was either asleep or I was too nervous or scared. It was going lower or it's going higher. So let me leave it alone and not take a little bit off the table. All those scenarios. The Algos make decisions for you that just, you know.
- [50:12]
Scott Melker
Yeah, yeah. I think it's time to go back to just showing it because I think it'll be a lot easier and I have. Yeah. And it's going to be. This is going to be available in a lot more places to a lot more people and it's a good time for us to make sure that people can actively see that it's continuing to work. So you don't know that we're not just talking. And I may or may not now to be totally transparent, be a part owner of said company because.
- [50:40]
Andrew
Yeah, we're gonna make an announcement. Yeah, we're gonna make.
- [50:45]
Scott Melker
Am I in trouble? It's telling me.
- [50:47]
Andrew
No, you're not in trouble. No, no, we're gonna, we're gonna make an announcement, you know, a little bit bigger than. Oh, by the way, I, I have. Yeah.
- [50:54]
Scott Melker
Oh hey Andrew, on that note of things that I, I now have randomly announced. Can I send you. Send you a bottle of bourbon?
- [51:02]
Andrew
Yeah, absolutely.
- [51:03]
Scott Melker
Have you seen this?
- [51:04]
Andrew
I like it. Yeah. No, you show me that at the bitcoin conference. Right? You're working on it. That's very cool. Very cool. Obviously the, you know the bitcoin color, so it's you know, almost orange and so the bitcoin bottle.
- [51:17]
Scott Melker
Yeah. I don't know if we could like market a food colored bourbon that's bright orange, but it would be sweet. Those Gemini Teslas though, I mean those cyber trucks we were rocking on, those like. I feel like those cybertrucks, I don't know why I just did that were really awesome. I was trying to bring up arch public but like it might get robbed with an orange cybertruck that says.
- [51:37]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [51:39]
Scott Melker
I might rewrap it to be a little less conspicuous. It was great for the floor. Well, it's really awesome. I'm just not. I can't do the bitcoin like rob me. Your license plate also says rob me.
- [51:51]
Andrew
It depends on where you're located. Right. So if you're in the state of Tennessee. That might go over well. Orange is pretty popular. Or in Texas. Right. Where again, orange is fairly popular. But maybe not, you know, Massachusetts, that might be problematic.
- [52:09]
Scott Melker
Yeah.
- [52:11]
Andrew
So we'll see. Everybody go to archpublic.com all. Currently, four of our algorithms are free for you to use. Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, xrp. We have more assets coming to market and so use it for free whether you, whether you think it's the real deal or not. We dare you to go and try it and see how it works because we've got a lot of people dare you. Yeah, we've dared people to do it and they've done it and it's been, been an extraordinary ride, you know, over the blast. I, I will tell you that the future side of things is rocking right now too. Just Yesterday we had two trades that were more than 7% inside of one day.
- [52:55]
Scott Melker
I think we're at like 46. I don't know, I haven't even looked today.
- [52:59]
Andrew
So, so the, that that portfolio is near 50 again over a 16 month.
- [53:03]
Scott Melker
Period and I just lied. Somebody asked me where it was and I said up about 41, 14,100, give or take. But yeah, yeah.
- [53:12]
Andrew
Yeah, because late last week we had a trade that was up like 4.4% in that particular portfolio. But in another version of the portfolio that trades the NASDAQ on a daily basis, we did like 7.7% just yesterday. So, you know, extraordinary things. I will say that our, our futures program, our futures algorithm is invite only. So if you want to be involved there, you're going to talk to us and be invited into that program based on again the scale and so many people that we got involved. We book know, got to be careful about volumes and the futures and CME exchange. So. Yeah, yeah, when you get involved, you know, things are revealed about liquidity and the like associated with it.
- [53:58]
Scott Melker
So crazy, crazy size. All right, well, we've, we've done good here. I like the comments down there. I don't think you can really read them. Yeah, it's, it's just cool. Yeah, it makes people feel like they're a part of it, guys. Okay, so we're gonna, in the coming weeks. I can't say by next week we'll get that set up. But I am committing to setting that up so you guys can harangue me and harass me in the chat. There's just a new potential partner that I want to do it with because I think it'll be a Great for a push. And I have a reason to. To do that, so. And that's it. I don't know where Tillman is or people making fun of him earlier in the chat.
- [54:34]
Andrew
You know what?
- [54:36]
Scott Melker
They would have been making fun of Tillman, and we could have all read that.
- [54:38]
Andrew
Well, I've got a injury report with Tillman. He. Throughout his back playing pickleball.
- [54:43]
Scott Melker
This guy gets hurt a lot.
- [54:45]
Andrew
Yeah, well, you know, he's a former athlete. It happens to us. We break down.
- [54:49]
Scott Melker
Things don't work. God. Yeah. Two of my friends played pickleball for the first time, like, two years ago. I've never played because of this. They went out and. So, like, our third friend is this guy, Caleb Sturgis, who was like a. He was a kicker for the Eagles and the Dolphins and for the. For the Gators. But he's like a freak pickleball player. And he was like, all right, guys, come out. Play pickleball. One guy left with, like, a horribly sprained sprained leg, and the other one left with a torn Achilles. And one of the guy who tore his Achilles, like a great tennis player, was a college tennis player, maybe not, like, in his prime at exactly this moment, but played pickleball once and, like, everything fell apart. It's like the CrossFit of our generation.
- [55:29]
Andrew
Right, Right. Injuries abound because we think we're as good as we used to be. Be and can move as quickly as we used.
- [55:36]
Scott Melker
I'm better than. I don't. You're.
- [55:37]
Andrew
And. And especially in pickleball, where you're contorting and turning and trying to get somewhere. Start and stop. Achilles. Yeah. Achilles doesn't surprise me at all.
- [55:47]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I'm just gonna go for long walks. Maybe in the future do yoga because I'm not flexible. All right, we gotta go. I don't know if I'm supposed to turn the comments off before we go. What's gonna happen? I don't even know.
- [55:58]
Andrew
Pump alert. Pump alert.
- [55:59]
Scott Melker
I'm turning off. Oh, here, guys, cover your ears. I can't hear you. I have no idea what's happening. There's eight sound banks there, and I don't remember what's in any of them, but they're. They're hilarious. One was that song Pump it Up. One of them is Benny Hill. Is this Benny Hill? Tell me. Yeah, yeah, we used to do those all the time. When I did chart streams, it was a lot of fun. And on that note, before I get myself in any further trouble, guys, obviously you could see it. Archpublic.com give AP/abacus a follow and we will see you next week. Thanks, Andrew.
- [56:34]
Andrew
Yo, that's dope.