SOL Leads Majors, DOGE ETF Delayed! Alts to Explode? | CryptoTownHall

Summary

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The Wolf Of All Streets – CryptoTownHall

Episode: SOL Leads Majors, DOGE ETF Delayed! Alts to Explode?
Host: Scott Melker
Date: September 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

Scott Melker and a rotating panel of industry voices dissect a whirlwind week in crypto and finance, centering on Solana’s continued leadership among major tokens, the surprising cash dynamics behind recent crypto company raises, the implications of a delayed Doge ETF, and the muted-yet-bullish sentiment surrounding altcoins. The episode weaves between deep market analysis, philosophy of money, meme culture, and a dash of trading war stories, providing a tapestry of where major players think crypto sits in both the market cycle and culture as of Fall 2025.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Solana Leading Majors & Cash-Backed Treasury Developments

• Muted Hype vs. Real Value: Despite Solana's surge towards its all-time high, panelists (notably Dave) argue the market’s excitement is surprisingly subdued compared to prior cycles. Dave references a statement by Mike Novogratz highlighting Solana’s capacity to, in theory, handle the world’s equity transactions—a capability even Ethereum lacks natively ([01:00-03:00]).
• The $1.65B Ford Industries Raise: Contrary to expectations, the raise was done in cash, not in-kind Solana. This means actual buying pressure for SOL in the market and signals non-reliance on just crypto-insider capital ([03:38-04:47]).
• Quote – Dave:
  “So they raised 1.65 billion dollars ... it was all raised in cash, meaning that is $1.65 billion that will be used to buy Solana rather than $1.65 billion of Solana being transferred into the treasury company.” ([04:13])
• Implications: The trend is compared to MicroStrategy’s BTC accumulation, suggesting a new era of “strategic asset” accumulation but with less euphoria than historic bull runs ([04:53]).

2. Alts & ‘Altseason’ Sentiment

• Altseason Indicator: Scott questions the value of an “altseason indicator,” noting he prefers observing actual price momentum. The group agrees we’re not in a period of retail-driven mania; actual froth and euphoria appear absent, but that may foretell future explosive moves ([00:05-06:00]).
• Dartboard Markets: Dave notes we're far from the “throw-a-dart-at-the-board and get rich” environment—a signature of true altcoin manias ([08:30]).

3. Ethereum vs. Solana: Usability, Fees, and Institutional Preference

• Usability Insight (CJ):
  • Ethereum offers superior liquidity but becomes slow and expensive (high gas fees) in high traffic; Solana offers speed and low cost but gives up some reliability and has higher technical barriers for validators ([06:09-07:56]).
  • Quote: “With Solana, things happen very cheaply and very quickly... the speed and ease of use is just not understood because not many people are making markets and using Defi right now.” ([06:09])
• Institutional Adoption:
  • Ongoing debate about which blockchain ("rails") will underpin the next-gen financial system: ETH (favored as “institutional” by Tom Lee) or Solana (favored for speed and cost). Dave likens recent Treasury raises for Solana to Bitcoin’s own “MicroStrategy moment” ([07:56-10:20]).

4. Macro Backdrop & Asset Repricing

• Asset Inflation & The Dollar: Every major asset—from stocks to crypto—is rising. Dave and Scott debate whether this is genuine appreciation or merely US dollar debasement ([11:15]).

• Money Markets & Wall Street Influence: Mark cites over $7T in money market funds as a sign of potential capital rotation. More Wall Street involvement could mean more volatility, particularly in under-owned altcoins. Institutional involvement remains in its infancy ([12:52-15:22]).

• Quote – Mark:
  “We still have so few people talking about even bitcoin, let alone Solana versus ETH, modular versus monolithic... so the investment is still way early.” ([14:17])

5. Tokenization – The Coming Wave

• BlackRock & NASDAQ Moves: News surfaces that BlackRock plans ETF tokenization and NASDAQ is seeking to tokenize stocks.
• Implications for Blockchain Choice: Whether these institutions select ETH, SOL, or build proprietary chains (“BlackRock Chain”) could shape the next few decades of financial infrastructure ([18:28-21:38]).
• Philosophical Angle – Tomer:
  • Critiques confusion between decentralized assets (bitcoin, no issuer) and tokenized stocks (centralized, with issuing entities and regulatory intervention) ([21:38-24:16]).

6. Bitcoin as Opt-Out vs. Ethereum/Solana as Financial Rails

• Bitcoin as Engineered Money: Several speakers (Seb, CJ, Tomer) underscore Bitcoin’s singular use case: preserving value against fiat debasement and “definancializing” traditional assets, freeing up their utilitarian value ([24:16-31:59]).
• Societal Consequences: Seb links the financialization of everything (houses, land) to broken money, suggesting a Bitcoin standard could restore utility to assets and reduce systemic anxiety ([29:40-31:59]).
• Quote – Scott:
  “Do you know what's backing your money? And they say, well, Fort Knox...” ([29:40]) – discussing the mythos of the US dollar’s backing.

7. DOGE ETF Delayed & Meme Economy Talk

• DOGE ETF Delay: Scott breaks the news; Tomer calls it “a relief,” but both acknowledge the absurdity and inevitability of meme assets reaching ETF status. Dave notes Doge’s persistent top-10 ranking and its “proof of the insanity” in crypto ([33:01-34:30]).
• Market Entertainment vs. Fundamentals: The discussion segues into the entertainment aspect of meme coins, NFTs, and even “zombie tokens.” The meme asset trend is linked to the “financialization of social trends” ([35:35-36:05], [48:22-48:59]).
• Quote – Tomer:
  “Is it entertainment or is it reality?... What's the genre of entertainment you're getting?” ([35:35])
• Cultural Phenomenon: Noah and Nicholas liken meme coins and NFTs to cultural collectibles (e.g., Pokémon cards), recognizing that while most may fade, some could persist and acquire nostalgic or speculative value ([41:07-44:19]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave (on Solana’s muted price action):
  “All I could say is this. When the four year cycle is completely debunked, many things can happen at once... we haven't seen any of those days yet. Not in a while.” ([05:00])

• CJ (on DeFi and adoption):
  “What does it take to get mass adoption? What does it take to onboard a billion people? It takes ease of use…” ([06:09])

• Scott (on Bitcoin, ETH, and Solana coexisting):
  “I kind of default to the very classic meme of the little girl shrugging that says why not both, you know?” ([15:22])

• Tomer (on blockchains’ role):
  “Bitcoin has no other utility than being money… It doesn't have an opportunity cost. You can't live in it, you can't grow food on it, you can't use it to store something else in other than value.” ([31:59])

• Seb (on broken money and society):
  “What does the world look like when we have an ability to save, when we no longer have to worry about what our money is doing and then we can direct that capacity towards our family and our hobbies…?” ([28:43])

• Noah (on memes as culture):
  “What they represent is more of a deeper cultural phenomenon and not necessarily an asset class for gambling on, although that's kind of like the undertone of the whole thing.” ([41:07])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:05] – Intro; recap of market-moving news: Solana, DOGE ETF, IPOs
• [00:55–04:47] – Solana strength & Treasury company cash raise
• [06:09–07:56] – Usability comparison: Ethereum vs. Solana (CJ)
• [07:56–10:43] – Institutional interest, tokenization, and “MicroStrategy moment” for Solana
• [11:15–15:22] – Macro conditions: asset flows, money market funds, Wall Street involvement
• [18:28–21:38] – BlackRock, NASDAQ, and the blockchain race for tokenized assets
• [21:38–24:16] – Philosophy: decentralized vs. centralized assets; regulatory issues (Tomer)
• [24:16–31:59] – Bitcoin vs. Everything: societal impact of fiat debasement (Seb, CJ, Tomer)
• [33:01–36:10] – DOGE ETF delayed, meme coins, and financialized social trends
• [41:07–44:47] – Meme coins and cultural collectibles – Pokémon cards analogy
• [54:00–54:53] – Episode wrap-up and poker banter

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation oscillates between technical, philosophical, and irreverent. The roundtable format allows for smart banter, pointed critiques, market tales, and cultural musing—retaining Scott Melker’s trademark blend of down-to-earth skepticism and broad curiosity. Sarcasm, self-reflection, and financial war stories give the episode both credibility and a warm, club-like vibe.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

This episode offers a granular snapshot of where sophisticated market participants see crypto as of September 2025: Solana’s rise isn’t driven by mania but careful strategic plays; altcoin euphoria is (for now) absent; and meme assets, for all their seeming absurdity, reflect deeper currents of culture and market structure. Meanwhile, debates about what blockchain underpins a tokenized future remain front and center, as new institutional money gingerly enters and contemplates the rails of tomorrow’s global markets.

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Host: Scott Melker
Notable Panelists: Dave, Mark, CJ, Tomer, Seb, Noah, Nicholas, Gary

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Transcript

[Dave]

Foreign.

[Scott]

Everybody, welcome to Crypto town hall. Every day here on exit 10:15am Eastern Standard Time. Dave, I think we have to start with the market today. Right. We've got Solana leads majors. Does ETF today alts to explode. I've seen a lot of tweets with the alt season indicator hitting 69 and it needs to hit 70 and then we're magically an alt season. So I have no idea if that's worth discussing or not because I don't use an alt season indicator. I just look at the prices of things and if they're going up, generally think that we can gauge the sentiment. Solana obviously leading here as we've been discussing was possible for a very, very long time. Apparently a doge ETF hitting today we had the figure markets IPO which did exceptionally well this week and Gemini IPO today. There's a lot going on.

[Dave]

Yeah, I mean look, Solana in particular the news is just, it's actually muted. I mean compared to the response to Oracle, compared to the response to what was it Open door compared to what we're likely to see in the Gemini ipo. Solana still came towards its previous all time high that it's like less than 1/4 the value of Ethereum with the power behind the people talking about it. I mean Novogratz came out and said yesterday something very specific. He said and this is the reason why I own some Solana is that it has the capacity to handle all the transactions in the world equity markets more or less. I mean you could go dig up the quote and find out exactly what he said. That is an extremely important point. So you know there's Ethereum can't. Ethereum could with level 2 layer twos but it's not the same. And so if you're really talking about the total, the, the use case of being the underpinning for new modern financial markets, Solana is one of the ones that could actually do that. Right. That that matters. And, and you know if you look at that and you say to yourself okay, you know what could that mean and why is it 1/4 where Ethereum is and at the same time holding the thought in your head that Ethereum might be undervalued relative to everything else, one could see very explosive growth. So I'm actually surprised that Salon is only sitting around 240 to be.

[Mark]

Dave, Dave, who said that that it could handle all the.

[Dave]

I read it on Twitter quickly. That's what I saw Mike Novogradz saying it might have been taken out of Context. So take it with a grain of salt. So that's why I asked if someone wants to look up that interview. But truth is that the holy grail for much of the, of the crypto ecosystem is to underpin a new, more modern version of the financial markets. And that total addressable market is really, really large. Right. And so that's really the point. And look, you could take into, take valuation metrics however you want to take them. I mean the fact that it's TVL is at all time highs, it's transactions all times, that doesn't mean anything to me because what you really care about is what could it do? So in terms of hype, it's actually in my mind very, very muted relative to what we've seen in the past. And so by the way, that's right.

[Scott]

Did you see that the pipe for Ford Industries which was trading as for the. That's the Galaxy Multi coin jump crypto was all cash.

[Dave]

What do you mean?

[Scott]

All $1.65 billion raise. And everybody assumed since it was multicoin galaxy and jump, that it was in kind, they were all going to be contributing their very large bags of Solana that we know they've had forever. It was raised entirely in cash. No, in kind. Zero.

[Dave]

So once again, I repeat my statement. Sorry.

[Scott]

So they raised 1.65 billion dol in their reverse merger with Ford Industries. Everyone assumed that because multicoin obviously led the first rounds of Solana, this was a way to effectively transfer exit Solana positions for large entities, which has been what treasury companies have largely done. Payal Simani, who will be the chairman of this and is the head of multicoin, clarified that this was all raised in cash, meaning that is $1.65 billion that will be used to buy Solana rather than $1.65 billion of Solana being transferred into the treasury company.

[Dave]

And with that information it's up a few percent.

[Scott]

Yeah, right.

[Dave]

That, that, that's my point. My, my point is that those who think that crypto is in the middle of a hype cycle, all you gotta look, yeah, crypto stocks might be. The traditional world wants it. There's, you know, look, they, it's, it's obvious that there's needs for it, but it's pretty clear that the crypto world itself, the actual tokens, is not in a hype cycle. I mean, I'm saying it's not bullish, but it's not. We are so far from euphoria, it's not even funny. And that to Me matters. I mean I keep like jokingly, not jokingly. I tweeted yesterday at some crypto influencer saying this time when we see you get a rally, you really have to take profits. And we're hearing a lot of that. And that is the opposite of what you would see in a hype cycle. And that's the wall of worry that. All I could say is this. When the four year cycle is completely debunked, many things can happen at once. And we always talk about how you need to be in the market for the 10 most important days. Well, we haven't seen any of those days yet. Not in a while. Okay, so now that I've said this, we're starting to get some hands.

[Scott]

You have at it. You do it.

[CJ]

Yeah, that was, that was great. I, I couldn't agree more with what you were saying. And I just want to add some perspective from the usability side from the experience of using and making markets on Ethereum versus using and making markets on Solana. So a lot of people might think, you know, Ethereum is superior and I think in terms of liquidity it's very obvious that it is. But the problem with Ethereum versus Solana is that Ethereum is, is slow and when it gets busy, the gas fees are outrageous. I mean just to provide liquidity in some pools could cost a couple hundred dollars to execute those contracts. When we're in the middle of a real bull market with Solana, things happen very cheaply and very quickly. But the trade off is sometimes, you know, they have to reset the chain and you know, it's 32 ETH to validate. But the, the stakes are pretty high and the hardware and technology education is pretty high to, to validate on Salana. So there, those are some of the trade offs so that the, the community can understand what's happening here. But ultimately my feeling is what does it take to get mass adoption? What does it take to onboard a billion people? It takes ease of use and the, the state at which Defi is in right now, it, it's not ready for a billion people to join. And the question becomes is it going to be a forward facing UI UX that comes from an application that plugs into Ether or is it going to be a UI UX that plugs into Solana? And I think the speed and ease of use is, is just not understood because not many people are making markets and using Defi right now. But that's the big advantage for Solana and I think it's relative to Ethereum it's underpriced.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, look, I think we can get a lot of people to debate that. I mean, that's my thesis pretty much as well. I don't really care about what's happening today. The biggest news that we've seen recently is, you know, NASDAQ putting $50 million into Gemini. And as the big exchange groups and the big brokerages and the big firms start to move towards tokenization, what are they going to use? And we've seen a lot of, you know, statements. Tom Lee has told everyone who wants to listen that he thinks that Ethereum will be the institutional blockchain. He, maybe he'll be right, maybe he won't. It's, this has got to be one that a lot of people have opinions on. But to me that, that matters in the long run. In the short run, if we're talking about markets, you ask yourself the question is, is, is Solana with the big. Remember when Solana lost its all time high the first time? It was because of the, the, all that ftx, Solana being sold and all the major unlocks, all that. I'm not gonna say it's gone, but it's unlocked. There's no more shoes to fall. And if what we now have is a Treasury company supported by actual users on a strategic basis, it feels a lot like the microstrategy moment in Bitcoin, you know, several years ago that Saylor has described much more than anything else. Just like Tom Lee, you know, going into Ethereum, he's trying to do that, but it's not nearly as much in terms of how it will get used in his case. It's, it's as a strategic asset. So to me it feels like that's a big deal. And all I, all I'm saying is, is I'm not seeing froth or euphoria yet. And a lot of the coins in the crypto world really rely upon that sort of, you know, euphoria or animal spirits for them to get moving. And so if we think that will happen, then sure. You know, Scott, you always talk about the dartboard. You know, you could just throw a dartboard, you know, a dart at a board and whatever it is is going to go up, whatever huge. We are very, very, very, very far from that. And whether or not this will get there, I think it's going to matter, you know, in terms of, you know, macro stuff and what's going on in the main markets, et cetera. But the truth is that it feels very muted that the market isn't really, you know, exuberant about this. That's really the point that I was making.

[CJ]

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And as stablecoins being the first iteration of real world asset tokenization, kind of being the proving point, the starting point, that is really what's going to accelerate us into eventually that psychology of the market cycle euphoria stage. And yeah, I agree with you. Right now we are nowhere near that.

[Dave]

Yeah, but it's a positive day no matter how you want to slice it. Right, Scott?

[Scott]

Yeah, I mean, Bitcoin is trading 115,000 above the 50mA on the daily, again, clearly holding for two to three days now above 112K, which technicians are obviously pointing at. Like I said, you've got IPOs left and right. They're all doing well. And it seems all systems go right now. Plus, I mean, we didn't even talk about the fact that obviously the S and P and NASDAQ are trading at all time highs.

[Dave]

Well, yeah, I mean it seems like every, and I mean every asset is moving up at the same time. I mean it's, you don't see this very often. Obviously the reason if you think about it is are these assets moving up or is the dollar being debased? And people are just kind of reflecting that in the prices of assets. It's. We'll, we'll see what actually happens. But I mean, it's hard not to look at this and, and see, you know, and see yourself, you know, with the, the 10 year. Even, even, even on the long end, the 10 year is, is still under, you know, what 4.067 is the yield. I mean, whatever. I mean it's under 4.1. People were worried about 450, you know, not too long ago. So it really does feel like, like money is kind of sloshing around here. And so we'll see. I mean, we've seen this in September to have to be met by October surprises before. It's definitely, I know on your show yesterday, you know, you got to hear Mike, I'm sure I didn't listen, I'm not gonna lie, but I have a pretty good idea that he said that. And yeah, you know, and, and, and it is. There's lots of barometers that are saying, okay, there's crazy shit going on. But the truth is, if there is crazy shit at this point, will the reaction to that crazy shit be good or bad for, for Bitcoin and for coins like Solana and Ethereum and the I Don't want to call them quality, I don't want to call them blue chip. We'll just say large cap memes. I see Mark with your hand up. Mark.

[Mark]

Hey Dave. Yeah, hey Dave. The just talking about the macro part. Just some, some data. I think one of you guys, either Dave or Scott might have put out the 7 trillion dollar money market fund stat that I think Balconis from Bloomberg was.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Was promoted. And it's absolutely true. You know T bills and chill sounds great at four and a half five but a two and a half or three, you know that three is going to be the number. You know the whole yield curves globally have pivoted around the two year point. Two years haven't really moved much and that's right out about cpi. So I think we're going to have some bleed out of there and there is money sloshing around. But the more Wall street gets involved the more volatility we're going to have with all the altcoins because it's still so under owned. I mean the world financial going back to that, you know, quote failed ICO which was far from it. I learned yesterday a guy that I know got into, got bought into it right at the election. So I think it was a penny. It was a penny, right?

[Noah]

It was one.

[Scott]

Yeah. So I, yeah, the first round I think was one and a half. I don't want to misquote but some. The second was in the ballpark at 5 cents and that was last October.

[Mark]

Yeah. And it was I think surrendering eth is how it was. And eth was in the hole so it was a huge boon for those folks. It was more than a 15 bagger. It was 15 bagger in I think ETH terms and it was more when you talk about dollar terms. So I think we are early innings. Every indication as Dave said about where we are with froth not there. But it's all Wall street, you know, talk. Call it financialization. We still have so few people talking about even bitcoin, let alone Solana versus ETH, modular versus monolithic. All those discussions. 50 million from NASDAQ is basically firing one consultant and taking money from one pocket and delivering it to another. So the investment is still way early on it. And as far as is it ether Solana, you know I, I think that's going to take a long time to figure out which one carries the rails of tradfi assets.

[Scott]

Yeah, I kind of default to the very classic meme of the little girl shrugging that says why not Both, you know. Yeah. I think that ETH may catch the main institutional involvement, but Solana could catch up and capture another entire part of the market. I think it's clear there is place for both of them. And also, I mean, you just have the playbook. Right. And Matt Hogan and I discussed this not long ago when we were bull posting Solana at much lower prices and saying that this was the likely rotation. Whether you like it or not. You have, you know, the etf. Solana will get an etf, Right. Of course. You get the. Or futures trading, or whichever one comes first, then the etf. Then you start to get the proliferation of treasury companies or treasury companies, then etf, which gives you the flows, which gives you the bullish narrative. Which price goes up. Right. And we saw it with Bitcoin. We saw it with eth. We're seeing it with Salana. Pretty straightforward.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Lawyer Scott, what are we seeing with Naka and Meta Planet? Sorry to interrupt you guys, but where.

[Scott]

Is NA trading today? I mean, I know it went down to eight bucks to four bucks.

[Dave]

They're.

[Noah]

They're at$3,310. They dropped 28% today. 20%, 21% today. And met is down 8% percent.

[Scott]

You're seeing that the market really does not like Nakamoto's model. And you're seeing that people are now aware that their second raise was five bucks. And it's trading under that. It's not trading under nav, to be clear. There's people saying that, but, you know, they raised a bunch of money. I think one or two dollars the first round, and the second was five. It's trading below that. I think that it's confusing, but maybe there's just not a thirst for the model of a Treasury company that's buying treasury companies. I mean, that's what they did, right? They bought Meta Planet stock and then they dumped 50%. Is that accurate?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Fund of funds. That's what it looks like to me. Question is, when does it become valuable, if it ever does? I mean, are we going to have failures right out of the gate?

[Scott]

Yes. I don't think it'll be that much, but yeah. I think we're in this interesting situation where there was a lot of hype, a lot of money raised, and then a lot more roadblocks to actually buying the bitcoin than was anticipated. Does not. I actually don't know. How much Bitcoin does Nakamoto own? Do you know? I don't know anybody.

[Noah]

I'm having a hard time keeping up with all these guys quite frankly coming so fast. Does anybody know? Because I think that's a great question. And what is their nav right now?

[Mark]

No, don't know. But this is where first principles come in on this guys. And it brings to mind a plaque at my in laws Shorehouse that says friends of friends cannot bring friends. So the further away you get from the bitcoin I think is not really where you want to be. A little bit attenuation happens.

[Scott]

That is absolutely incredible. Incredible platform.

[Dave]

Lawyered.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Gary]

I saw an article yesterday about BlackRock talking about tokenizing. I don't know if this is just old news.

[Scott]

No, it's new. Yeah, it's new. It came alongside with the NASDAQ news that the NASDAQ was applying to basically tokenized stocks. And then BlackRock very quickly announced they wanted to tokenize the ETFs.

[Gary]

I like to imagine myself as like being the nerd, like Top Nerd at BlackRock. The guy who gets to ultimately decide guy or girl who gets to decide who what blockchain they use or do they make a blockchain for all this because that will be ultimately where this all goes, right? If they were to use Solana or Ethereum or blackchain blackrock chain that will dictate the entire future of on chain tokenized real world assets and stocks.

[Nicholas]

I think.

[Scott]

All BlackRock.

[Tomer]

Can we get an ETF of the tokenized version of the ETFs of the.

[Gary]

I mean I don't see why existing.

[Scott]

Inception we need wrappers for our wrappers.

[Gary]

We can, we can, we can give them really cool names too. Like not based on the quality of what's wrapped up in them. We could, we could basically mimic the entire financial system.

[Tomer]

I mean like with a little bit of seriousness it is. We've got two different competing technologies that do that are promising to do what each other does with, with various trade offs and you know, so you've got, you've got an ETF of tokens that are on blockchains and then you've got tokens on blockchains that are meant to represent what's traded in the traditional system. One of these systems is going to go away at the end and I don't think it's blockchain that. The blockchains that are going to go away because you can't make them go away. I guess they could lose adoption, they could fail to have the critical massive adoption or someone could just say you know what blockchains are really only they're so inefficient we can just make the databases really efficient and then you lose the distinction between which one was what. But having two different systems trying to do the same thing, they eventually become the same thing because, because of where they're done, you, you worry less about the underlying technology and more about what, what's the thing getting done and what's the best way to do it again.

[Scott]

Okay, go ahead.

[Gary]

Yeah, I mean, so the difference I think is if you had everything, if you have sort of a centralized financial system on blockchain, you then normalize the sort of non centralized transactions and assets. Whereas when it was all finance, all on the, you know, just centralized ledgers, there was no other way to do it. It was just, I mean, I guess cash and barter. So now we have this. At least if we normalize the blockchain, even if it's all through some sort of centralized NASDAQ and BlackRock system, it still normalizes what we are all sort of, many of us are believers in, which is the transactional freedom and the ability to start something up that competes with that.

[Tomer]

Yeah, I'm just saying there's a lot of like categorization and distinguishing to be done. Like, you know, the reason bitcoin has a blockchain is because it's meant to be. It has no issuer that it's issued by its own network and the rules are there and nobody can change the rules and nobody can interfere. When a company issues stock, the company is the issuer and the company has the right to retire stock, suspend stock, issue more stock. It doesn't make a commitment at its inception of what it will be for all eternity. And so the requirement for many of the elements that are in blockchain as it was designed for bitcoin, the rules are enforced by everybody and therefore hard to break by anybody and also hard to stop by anybody. You don't expect that want it needed in securities. You expect there to be new things issued all the time and issuers and that issuers actually do have some degree of control over what they're doing with it. So I think this is where the different classifications of systems needs to be clearer in some people's minds. Otherwise you end up, you end up making bad comparisons of what a system is trying to do. Like just as a straw man, I would say, you know, if you could get the regulate, you know, whether you're going to get the regulators in on the securities being traded on blockchain or get the regulators out of the database, that is the current stock Exchange. When you do that, the two different technologies become indistinguishable from one another from a utility point of view. And I guess that to me is where this point lies. And I think this will be the back and forth, the battle regarding the kind of joke that I made is like, will these systems coexist where you can actually buy a share either on one of these blockchains or through an exchange? Can you trade one for the other? How do you trade one for the other? Like it all, it's going to be an interesting transition. We, you know, and it probably won't take more than a decade or 15 years tops. Kind of like how it took all of telephony to become voiceover ip, but you still have, you know, you still had the telephones until people realized they didn't want to talk to each other, they wanted to send text messages to each other, which, which might be another breakthrough that none of us can see coming. And in stocks.

[Seb]

I would also argue that what Tom was saying about the kind of the distinction of things, I think when you step back and you ask like, what is the role of the financial system? What is the role of crypto? I think many people are trying to escape a system that no longer protects our purchasing power. And so there's a distinction between saving versus investing. And I think when money is broken, we can no longer save. So everyone's pushed to the world of investing and taking risk. And so if we just had an asset that preserved our purchasing power, I would argue that the financial system would be a minuscule fraction of what it is today. And so a lot of these discussions wouldn't be being had because our hurdle rate would be 40, 50% or less if we had mass global adoption. And I think a lot of people would just be saving in Bitcoin as opposed to trying to escape this debasement.

[Dave]

I think that it's important to understand that there are two or three things in what you just said. I mean, the average human being sadly doesn't even understand that when they're saving in a 401k or they're whatever, that they're escaping the basement. In fact, the percentage of people who understand that dollars are fiat and not backed by something in the actual real world is staggeringly low. I mean, we have lot of innumeracy and economic illiteracy. But look, even among main mainstream economists, they don't look at it that way. We do, but they don't. So that's, that's point one. Point two is that there's a track record here. And the. If there's one thing you learn when you talk to pension fund consultants and pension funds and I used to run transition trading so I did the tour of all the state capitals to talk to all the state pension funds in the United States. All is probably wrong, but probably 25 to 26 of them, a little bit more than half. What you learn is that one of the most important things people care about are track records. And bitcoin isn't a phenomenal track record for 15 years, but it's small. What they care about is the track record of multi billion dollar assets. And they'll look at it as one asset. They're not looking at it as an opt out for an entire system. We are a long way from that. I'm not saying we're not going to get there. I actually think that there's a pretty good shot that what you're saying 20 years from now may be true, but today we're not close. And the kind of price that you're implying for bitcoin in that is orders of magnitude higher than it is today. And so the real question is how do we get there and what happens and are we likely to. What's the market doing right now? And I'll come back to this. The bitcoin market and in fact all the coin markets are being buoyed but the money moving into it from the outside feels like a trickle compared to what it would be in a euphoria situation.

[CJ]

I love the direction that Tomer and Seb took this because it really is two different use cases altogether. Bitcoin is helping people preserve wealth through massive debt derivative dilution, this fiat currency just being printed to infinity all across the globe. So it's solving that problem. But institutions are coming into Ethereum and Solana and I think this, you know we, we had that guest last week from Ondo Finance, you know, globalizing and, and opening up the realm for access to U S Capital markets. So what do they see in it? They see faster transaction and settlement times and they see more access to a global audience, more way to, to raise money and tap into to global liquidity. And then the bitcoiners are a whole different group that are looking to avoid dilution from the abuse of of government deficit spending. So two different use cases. And I think sometimes we can conflate that these systems are competing each other. But honestly nothing can compete with bitcoin. It's engineered money. All of these other tools, Ethereum and Salana as Tomer brought up, you know, phone calls, but then we had text messaging. What is the next thing to come? We don't know what it is. We don't know if there's going to be a new chain, as lawyer said, what if it's Black Rock, an independent chain? These things can be. Be replaced on a whim. Bitcoin cannot be replaced.

[Seb]

I wholeheartedly agree, CJ And I think that Dave, like, absolutely agree with every single one of your points. And I should preface kind of what I should, what I said previously with the fact that, like, my expertise or my interest doesn't necessarily lie in crypto. It lies in bitcoin. And it lies more in the philosophical discussions and the big picture discussions. And I would say that the world we live in today, unfortunately, everyone and their dog has to become an investor and try and figure out this complex market because money doesn't hold value. And I think that what does the world look like when we have an ability to save, when we no longer have to worry about what our money is doing and then we can direct that capacity towards our family and our hobbies and the things that challenge us in our career. And I think the world looks like a profoundly different, more connected, more collaborative world than the world today. I think that when everyone is worrying about money, the amount of stress, the amount of tension that underpin everything is just. I think that is why we're seeing a lot of the decay and the divisiveness.

[Dave]

I think that's exactly right. And it's one of those things that it's sort of like when you see my favorite. One of my favorite memes, it's not really a meme is what the hell happened in 1971? Memes where you show whether it's. It doesn't matter. I mean, there's multiple versions of this. There's a one that shows housing affordability, there's the ones that shows the wealth gap, et cetera. And people say that, and the average human being doesn't have a clue. Now, we all know that it's because that's when Nixon finally closed the gold window and the Fiat Arrow in full steam was born. And there's all these pathologies that the average person has no idea. When you start talking to people to orange pill them, and I do this a lot, you always start with that. It's like, do you know what's backing your money? And they say, well, Fort Knox. It's like, well, really, you start talking about it and it's this idea. It's like the two pillars of American society financially are housing ownership and stock ownership. And in both, the point is made so often that it's almost like religious dogma, which is these investments will go up. Right. Over the long run, they go up and you need that wealth. And while that is absolutely true, we all understand that part of the reason for that, a large part of the reason for that is because we're printing more money. So of course the denominator is changing. Of course the nominal value goes up. Right. And that's the philosophical point that you were talking about, correct?

[Seb]

Absolutely. And like, so I live in the little ski resort of Whistler, British Columbia, and it's mind blowing because we have 61% of houses empty while the average house price is three and a half million dollars. And we have a housing crisis. And so you're wondering, you're just like, how is this possible? And it's because when money no longer stores value, people look for other things to store that monetary premium. And so house prices go up, farmland goes up. People no longer use farmland for its utility value growing crop and providing for their community. Instead they use it to store purchasing power. And so you end up taking all of these assets that were once utility pieces for society off the market, pushing up prices. And so you can see a lot of the, the issues we face today stem from broken money. And I agree with all your points, Dave. Absolutely.

[Tomer]

Yeah. One thing that I like to throw out, since we're getting a little bit philosophical here, the very quick point is bitcoin has no other utility than being money. It doesn't have an opportunity cost. You can't live in it, you can't grow food on it, you can't use it to store something else in other than value. And so in demonetizing or definancializing all these other things that have become financialized and therefore had their utility taken away or their pricing rocketed up above beyond where the market demand for the utility of the thing is, if we can get bitcoin to be the money, we can liberate all this utility. And SEB's example of $3.1 million houses, 60% of which are unoccupied or whatever his statistic was, just really lands home. The point of the monetization, taking away utility from things that can be used as financial stores of value, but ought not in an ideal world be used that way.

[Scott]

By the way, since we're having a philosophical conversation about the importance of bitcoin that we all agree on, I would sadly like to report that the Doge ETF has apparently been delayed.

[Tomer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Scott]

I know.

[Tomer]

What a tragedy.

[Scott]

I know, I know, I know.

[Tomer]

It's almost like that's one of those things that is like the world is Monty Python, right? This joke coin somehow became something that Wall street is now, you know, as it embraces crypto. It. It's trying to create an ETF of a literal joke. And it's a. It's a bit of a relief that it's been delayed, although it'll probably still happen.

[Dave]

There are a lot of. There are a lot of jokes out there, right? You know, and we always make fun of them, but, you know, Doge is the only one that's in the top 10, so, you know, so be it. It's like, you know, it's like as long as Doge is $40 billion or just pushing up against it, you know, I get every Monday to hear Mike McGlone talk about how it's proof of the insanity of the 20 million cryptos and all the other crap that we get said. But it is sort of like that sharp stick in the eye to, you know, not. Not Doge and, you know, itself, but the fact that there's this whole meme economy that's worth more almost. There are dozens that are worth more than the average Russell 2000, you know, company, which are the. That's the small cap index that is considered investable by institutions, and that just drives people in financial markets crazy.

[Scott]

Do you know, it's so interesting, Dave, on. On that note, obviously, listen, Zombie tokens, memes. Dead zombie companies exist everywhere in the stock market. And here. What's. Actually, I think what's put a huge spotlight on that is how many of these empty shells treasury companies have been able to find to merge into. It's like infinite dead companies publicly trading.

[Dave]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, well, look, but those infinite dead companies aren't like. Let's see where the first. The first big one is. I'm looking for bitcoin cash. I mean, is anyone using bitcoin cash for anything these days?

[Scott]

Does anyone remember that bitcoin cash was airdropped to everybody for free?

[Tomer]

Yeah, I remember because I got a couple of bitcoin.

[Scott]

That was like the best weekend ever, because I was fully in my trading degeneracy, and all of a sudden all this money appeared in your account. And the swings hourly were 300% violent. Just short any rip and long any dip. It was one of the most fun trading environments ever. But what nonsense.

[Tomer]

Well, I mean, I think this is where it comes down to is it entertainment or is it reality? And some of this stuff that's comedy going to become a tragedy like in the real world for people, or some of this stuff going to become a horror. What's, what's the genre of entertainment that you're getting?

[Scott]

That's a very fine line. But if you're buying a doge ETF with the expectation of massive returns, I would assume you either know what you're buying or you're functionally, I'm not gonna say the word but, you know, dropped.

[Tomer]

On your head too many times.

[Scott]

Yeah, you should know exactly what you're buying if you're buying an ETF of a meme.

[Dave]

Yeah, you should.

[CJ]

It goes right back to what you guys were just saying though, which is about that coming from the philosophical angle. People are forced to do this. They have to gamble to get ahead. They don't understand bitcoin, they don't have a savings technology, they're forced to gamble. And I think it brings us full circle back to Mark's original comment, which I think went a little bit too low. And Scott, I know you know this, but I've been, I've been shouting this from the rooftops, that seven plus trillion dollars in money market funds is a very big deal. And it ties into what we were talking about philosophically because right now at 425 to 450 basis points, people feel comfortable that they're, that they're keeping up. I'm not sure they feel like they're getting ahead, but at least they feel like they're keeping up. And perhaps real rates of return are keeping them even. But as the rates come down, those savers are no longer going to be incentivized to save. And that's going to turn them back into investors. And when that money floods into the market, it's going to rush out into stocks, real estate, bitcoin, gold, silver and goods and services. And what's interesting about the four year cycle is just at the time that we would anticipate to be heading into the depths of a bare market, pal's term is going to end and Trump is going to put in a printer, we know that. And rates will probably fall further. We may even go back to ZURP and the liquidity will flow and the, the four year cycle I think will break down and we can get, you know, the last couple cycles we had the China mining ban, throw a wrench in the, into the, into the cycle and then in the next bull market we had the lowering of interest rates throw a wrench into the euporia euphoria part of the cycle. And now we're moving into a time where finally there is a macro element which is going to be the lowering of rates that delivers a boost rather than a wrench.

[Scott]

Mark, Mark, you're up.

[Mark]

Hey, thanks. Back to the Doge thing. I forget the name of the gals that you have on Scott, sometimes the global cryptos.

[Scott]

Noel Atchison.

[Mark]

Yeah, Noel.

[Scott]

Yeah. Crypto's macro.

[Mark]

I like her background and in her approach, she, she favors. She's in a discussion, said, you know, I'm, you know, all about Bitcoin. And she goes, and I think dogecoin.

[Dave]

And.

[Mark]

And she went into it because what dogecoins represents is, you know, is like the I'm going to Bring in the Pink song. What about us, the people who were lost? You know, you, you talk about the, you know, the dead money, like the FTT coins that are worth 300 million. Scott and I kind of understand that you can't push things to zero. But something like Doge, which expands with it and maintains a certain dominance, it reflects people want to belong to something. And for some, you know, and Doge has it, I'm not supporting its value, but I'm reflecting that. I'm not going to say it's a. It's. It's an indication of the lack of connection in community and, you know, fall of family and all that, although it's probably a little bit of that. But it, it's something to listen to and understand. And bitcoin also offers that. But that's why Doge is there. And it's, it's a lesson that people should, as they market and everything else. I think it's an indication about community that for some reason, people are embracing.

[Scott]

I came into crypto in late 2016, kind of early 2017, simply trading. And Doge was my first love, right? I backed into bitcoin. But those Doge cycles where you could only trade it versus Bitcoin, and you bought it at 15 to 24 sats, and it pumped to somewhere around 180 to 200 sats. You sold it, you waited three months and it did it again, was such an incredible joke and such easy money that that's what brought me in before I really went down the rabbit hole and was orange filled, right? So I have. Doge has been doing this for a very, very long time. And, you know, it's more similar to bitcoin than most altcoins as well, but not, not making the case for it. One of the, like, the worst conversations of my entire life was when my. When Doge absol up out of nowhere, right? You could have never known. We didn't even know its value in dollars or in USDT when we were trading it. But when it went to a penny and then, you know, all the way to $0.70 on Elon Musk one day, my wife was like, you know, go back and look at your Doge trades. You just held the Doge that you bought for, you know, a few thousand bucks here and there, and it was like $60 million at the peak or something. Yeah, but I made a few grand and had a good time. What price can you put on good time with friends? Trading means.

[Mark]

That's it. Like the MasterCard commercial, right?

[Scott]

Nicholas?

[Noah]

That's.

[Unknown]

God, I felt that one in my heart because, yeah, I had, I had, I did the same thing. Went and looked back at my very old dogecoin wallet, only to be completely dismayed by the millions I squandered. But just to the, to the meme coin point, you know, one of the things that I have discussions about, you know, in this, in, in my technical circles, where everybody's kind of like just absolutely dismayed at the, the amount of meme coin activity and in, in crypto and they want to see, you know, more serious development, etc, I just think about as I, you know, I have kids that are growing up, you know, in, in middle school and elementary school and see really the, the Internet native generation growing up and then try to extrapolate that into the future. And honestly, honestly, what, what I see happening is meme coins really not going away and becoming kind of like a cultural phenomenon of the, of the Internet native generation. And we're seeing the beginnings of this right, right now. And I can only anticipate that it's going to grow and become these like, collectible things just like, you know, Pokemon cards or, or baseball cards before it. So I do think that they, what they represent is, is more of a, of a deeper cultural phenomenon and not necessarily an asset class for gambling on, although that's kind of like the undertone of the whole thing. I definitely think that they're, they're just going to continue to multiply and become just a kind of like a mainstay in everybody's daily life.

[Tomer]

I beg, I beg to differ. I think they're like, like what we saw with NFTs. There's like fat. They're like fashion, and fashion goes in and out of Style. And so you know, what may be a popular meme today may not be a popular meme tomorrow. Maybe to try to stretch the analogy, Doge is going to be like the Levi.

[Scott]

I think Doge transcends that a bit.

[Tomer]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Just because of its staying power. It's tied to Elon Musk, and it's been there since the beginning.

[Dave]

Right.

[Tomer]

And we stick around. But like, like other fashion symbols, it may go through hard times when whatever happens to it, you know, it's like, I don't know why Levi's at one point went out of. Of style after being a mainstay for a hundred years. But. But it is. It's like, it doesn't. It doesn't have the fun. None of it has a fundamental sticking point, a fundamental value proposition. The value proposition is it's cool now, but we all know that what's cool now is going to, by, by the definition of cool, not be cool in a generation. Almost. Almost certainly. So that's, that's. So what might stay is the churn of doing, Trying to do fun things and having them be purely financialized fun things. Like there's no, there's no actual fashion element. Doesn't make you look good, doesn't make you high, doesn't do, you know, doesn't do whatever the style thing of the time may be. But, but now that you can create something that has nothing but financial value in it, if you can hype it up enough, it can be in style for a little while. But that's certainly, you know, that's the tragedy of, I mean, there's Scott. Lost $60 million worth of bills.

[Scott]

Did not lose $60 million, my friends.

[Dave]

Right.

[Tomer]

You never had it to begin with.

[Scott]

Taking profit. Okay, I made $10,000. Opportunity cost is not the same as lost money.

[Tomer]

And you had a good. And you had a good time.

[Dave]

Right.

[Tomer]

It's kind of like if you traded. If you traded hockey cards and you had a rookie Wayne Gretzky or something, you had fun trading. It's the same kind of thing.

[Scott]

By the way, we actually know people.

[Gary]

Who lost 100 million, so it's not even a distraction.

[Scott]

Yeah, I don't know what part of their simulation we're in, but I just happen to be scanning Poly Market and Poly Market has tweeted. Breaking Nepal elects interim prime minister via Discord vote after Gen Z overthrew the government. Anybody see this? Like, literally, Discord bots just elected a prime minister because there's no way there's humans in the discord. Are you Reading the Onion? No, that's polymarket's actual Twitter. I have no idea.

[Unknown]

Yeah, no, this, this actually, this actually happened. And, and the government is choosing. They held a vote in Discord, obviously, and the government is choosing to support it.

[Scott]

Yeah, they're actually going to build the. I heard they're going to build the new Prime Minister's house in Minecraft. The fuck is happening right now?

[Dave]

Hey, Noah, you have something more substantive than this fun stuff?

[Scott]

Sorry, we're talking about memes while literally reading that a government was elected, likely by non humans in the Discord chat.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, I mean, let's face it, Scott, New York's about to elect a meme, right? You know, you know, what else, what else is there? I mean, we've. Our society, you know, has lost the plot in so many places for so many reasons. And I say it that way, it's because, I mean, if you would ask someone 20 years ago could forget the views. I couldn't care less. This is not about. I'm not going political here. I'm just saying elect some, you know, a 30 year old who has literally never administered even, you know, small company anything. No administrative experience, no governing experience whatsoever. You just said it's impossible. But these days, you know, some of our biggest and most powerful congress people were, you know, were effectively human memes also. So, I mean, it's definitely where we're going as a society anyway. You know, be that as it may, Noah, you did have your hand up.

[Nicholas]

Yeah. So on the, on the memes. I'm old enough to have been a kid in the late 90s and collected a lot of Pokemon cards. And I'm young enough to have been told by my dad and my uncle and the boomers around me that I'm wasting their money by begging for all these booster packs. Opened my binder a couple of weeks ago and I didn't get through the whole thing, but I went online and I checked and I did my own estimates. I need to get them graded. But about halfway through the binder, my cards are worth like 70 grand. And so with the meme coin thing, I think a lot of them. And back then in the late 90s, we had a lot of different cards. We had Dragon Ball Z cards, Digimon cards, Magic the Gathering. I mean, there's so many different cards and most of them are Yu Gi oh cards, and a lot of them are just not worth what Pokemon cards are worth. But to Nicholas's point, I think that we're going to see in 10 20, 30 years, whenever. The same thing with specific NFTs and even specific meme coins. So, yes, while most of them are meaningless, or I guess they're all really meaningless, Pokemon cards are meaningless. People will, down the line, find certain meme coins and certain NFTs to be very nostalgic. And they'll be willing to pay a lot of money for them. Just like they're willing to pay, you know, 100 grand or 200 grand for a first edition, first generation Charizard Pokemon cards. I just. I don't think you should completely throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Dave]

I don't think any of us are. I think we all. We all kind of understand the, you know, that this is. This is a sign of the. Of what's going on. It's just the financialization of social trends. I mean, what's the difference if Birkenbag.

[Nicholas]

I think there was a comment. I think there was a comment made about them being useless or something. Maybe, Maybe I misinterpreted, but I just. I. I'm not advocating for going out and buying meme coins, but I. I do think that some of these things down the line.

[Scott]

Dave, I think Birkin bags might be a better store value. Yeah, sorry, no, I didn't mean to interrupt. I think might have proven to be a better store value than bitcoin coin so far. So. Yeah, there you go.

[Dave]

Well, certainly a good store of value anyway, but, you know, lots of other bags are. Well, I know bags are a great store of value. Then my wife may be the ultimate investor, so, you know, who knows?

[Scott]

Mine too. But crypto. Crypto bags could be a good investment. We'd all be doing a lot better. I think I would rather bitcoin back then. Yeah, exactly. I think we should vote for the mayor of New York City on crypto Town hall. I mean, as long as Nepal is doing it, can we, like, do a meme coin and vote or something here? Is that possible? I don't know. Seems like a good. By the way, I know we got only a couple minutes left and Gary's here. Gary, Are we playing poker tonight?

[Dave]

Dude, Damn.

[Scott]

He's not here. His face is here.

[Noah]

Yeah, I'm playing. I'm playing. I might play.

[Dave]

Heads up with you.

[Noah]

Bring your thoughts on.

[Scott]

Is it just us?

[Noah]

We got a pool table. Be fun. Be a lot of fun.

[Dave]

Good.

[Scott]

Bring your car keys, buddy.

[Noah]

Bring your Solana.

[Scott]

Driving home. Driving. Driving home on your car.

[Noah]

Bring your Solana, boy.

[Scott]

We see what we need is Dave Weisberger.

[Dave]

What. What stakes Are you guys playing? Actually, you know, what's one of the lines?

[Noah]

It's starts at 5, 10, starts at 5, 10.

[Dave]

And then what, you're allowing straddles?

[Noah]

Well, you know, don't let them fool you.

[CJ]

They go all in.

[Noah]

It is Cordone's home.

[Scott]

I'm yet to join the game, so I look forward to, you know, to, to the carnage by the end. Hopefully we're playing like completely nonsensical games that require absolutely zero skill. Like Gary and I did in Vegas. What was it called? Double down Blackjack. Let's do that.

[Noah]

Bring your Solana, son.

[Dave]

You're doing, you're doing, you know, two board. Yeah, there's some two board, you know, Omaha.

[Noah]

We're not playing that. But Dave, I'm happy to play a game called three card Brag with you anytime you want.

[Dave]

I don't know what's that? Is that like pineapple or is that something different?

[Noah]

It's a British game, dude. Shoot pontoon.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And three card Brag. Three card Brag, I think was the game played in lock, stock and two smoking barrels.

[Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Noah]

The most brutal card game ever invented in history.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Have you ever played the game? I don't know if it's the official name. Clump K L U M P King Pot King. Little multiplying pot is basically poker. But this, the lowest card in everyone's hand, they get to use as a wild. So if you have two of like, if you have two of them, they're wild and kings are wild. Straight flushes beating bigger streets. Just shoot me.

[Dave]

I, I, I. Yeah, well, you know what, Whatever. Just easier just to play, you know. Well, never mind.

[Noah]

Pick a card.

[Dave]

Yeah, exactly. But why not play War?

[Scott]

Oh yeah. Ends up war. Let's do it. Ton. Sorry, guys. I didn't mean to hijack the space. I just saw that, you know, we were at kind of coming to the.

[Noah]

Conclusion it's your space, bro. You could do whatever the fuck you want.

[Dave]

Yeah. You know, but it is emblematic, Scott. I mean, you know, a lot of this stuff is we're kind of waiting to see what's going to happen. And you know, it's like we keep talking about, you know, will bitcoin break out? And the technical side, guys are like, like, well, you know, it's, it's, you know, take profit, do this, do that. It really is a question of all when the money spigot starts to flow, what happens? And you know, who knows, you know, the, the, the, the is the data. Like, you know, I was Just looking at Poly Market, whereas. Where's Poly Market? Where the hell is it? Oh, there it is. Fed decision. Right. You know, it hasn't budged. You know, markets are acting like, you know, like it's, like it's budging. But the December. December decision seems pretty damn close to obvious. It's going to be 25. I mean, there's a smidge that's at 13, which means if you get 25, if there's no. If the tone of the press conference is even neutral, the mark, one would think the market will sell off. Right. You know, just. Just based on expectations.

[Scott]

Now, that said, but 50 also could be an indication, which won't happen, but it would be an indication that Powell is panicking.

[Dave]

Right. Which he won't. But, you know, it. Look, the real question is, is the. There's a Goldilocks thing, and you won't know it until the press conference. But here's the funny part. So anyone who's trading at the time, so they're going to announce whatever they're going to announce, and in between then the half hour between that and the press conference or the 15 minutes or whatever it is is literally like. Like playing Blind Man's Bluff. Because it's all about what they say. That's. That's all. All I got to say. It's like, you know, so I would say whatever the move is, immediately fade it. If it's a big move. It's not a big move. You know, wait, you know, etc. But the press conference is the only thing that matters. And so we're going to talk about it a lot more next week.

[Scott]

Yeah, maybe we should live stream it. What time is it? At 2. It's usually like a 2pm thing, huh? We used to do that. We used to actually join up. We used to, like, launch the spaces to listen to the press conference and heckle him. It's fun.

[Noah]

Scott, bring your Solana and I'll. I'll live stream our game. We'll put the YouTube, bring 20,000 Solana, and we'll just, you know.

[Scott]

You want me to bring 20,000 Solana or 20,000American dollars worth of Salana ad?

[Noah]

I'm thinking 20,000 Solana would be funner.

[Dave]

Yeah, well.

[Scott]

It'S your house. If you get kicked out and I end up with the keys, that's not on me.

[Noah]

I have a house. You bring your Solana, I'll bring my house.

[Scott]

You bring your house. See you there.

[Noah]

I got it.

[Dave]

You guys are funny.

[Scott]

We did it, Dave. Yeah, I think we're gonna go ahead and wrap.

[Dave]

That's been one of those weeks where we could all use a laugh.

[Scott]

Yeah, it was a good way to end. Perfect. I can't wait to lose some money. Yeah. Guys, we'll see you Monday. Thanks for joining Crypto Town hall, everybody. Have a good one.

[Dave]

Later. Bye.

[Seb]

Thanks, guys.