← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:01]
Scott Melker
It's Liberation Day in the United States. We're finally going to be freed of the chains of tyranny in this country that is the freest in the world. I don't really know what Liberation Day means. I don't know what we're being liberated from. But apparently it means that we're going to drop a tsunami of tariffs on friends, enemies and everybody in between. Markets are holding their breath waiting to see what will happen. In the meantime, I have one of my favorite classic guests. It's been a long time, Stephen Stoneberg here to talk about everything happening in the market, but also some surprise things that maybe you guys haven't heard about. We're going to dive into that right now. Let's go.
- [00:41]
Stephen Stoneberg
Let's dope.
- [00:56]
Scott Melker
What is up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, also known as the Wolf of Allstreets. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and hit that like button. Going to bring on Steven right now. Good morning. It's been a very long while.
- [01:09]
Stephen Stoneberg
Yes. I've been busy building the next project now.
- [01:13]
Scott Melker
I think last we spoke you were the CEO of Bittrex. So it's been a while, obviously. And happy Liberation Day to you.
- [01:20]
Stephen Stoneberg
Thank you. It's exciting, but I'm doing insurance now which isn't quite so exciting. But hopefully your listeners will. You know what, there's so much going on. I just, I read the headlines. At the end of the day, I'm too busy to follow everything he does.
- [01:35]
Scott Melker
Yeah. Well, before we jump into what you have been busy with, I think it's worth discussing. Trump tariff plans are being ironed out and they're due today. Interesting. As you sort of watch them deliberate on this, it seems like they don't even know what they're going to do today yet to be quite well.
- [01:48]
Stephen Stoneberg
That's the perception they want you to have. I think it's more, you know, I don't. We all sort of speculate. I think it might be sort of more orchestrated chaos for some decided effect.
- [01:58]
Scott Melker
I'm quite sure that's exactly true as a bargaining tactic. When I look at this, my natural gut says whatever happens should be somewhat priced in because it has been so chaotic. What could they possibly announce that would be so dramatic that the market would react in either direction?
- [02:18]
Stephen Stoneberg
I agree. I think it's hype on both sides. I think there's the negotiating of the people who are going to be tariff to have had an unfair advantage perhaps. And like it's me taken away. It's like any classic Negotiation. I think it's recency bias. People think the world should be like it was recently and this is more like 1880s or 1890s. So nobody remembers this. But I mean this is like mercantilism. And if you studied economics like you know, we've had, the world has operated this way, just not in anyone's lifetime.
- [02:44]
Scott Melker
It's interesting. Yesterday China announced already that they were going to stop allowing or restrict allowing Chinese from investing in the United States. And Chinese investment in the United States is obviously huge. So there seems like they're getting ahead of what's coming to some degree. But sort of as we alluded to, all of that can change in 24 hours at any given time. Whatever he says another way. So it's great theater in my opinion.
- [03:12]
Stephen Stoneberg
It's a full time job if you want to follow it. Some of you know, we all have to kind of like work. So I think we have to, we need to know what's going on. But you read at the end of the day and you get the headlines and move on.
- [03:22]
Scott Melker
Yeah, I mean, crypto traders brace for Trump's Liberation Day tariffs Amid forgotten strategic Bitcoin reserve developments. It's pretty crazy. I have to say that all we talked about for six to nine months was this impending strategic Bitcoin reserve. We finally got exactly what we wanted, or maybe some version of it with an executive order.
- [03:41]
Stephen Stoneberg
Nothing happened. Exactly, exactly. No. It's fascinating what's going on.
- [03:46]
Scott Melker
Okay, well let's dive into what you're doing now because I find this so important and something I've often talked about is sort of the missing Lego in the stack here for crypto. So former Bittrex execs, that's you, raised 40 million in Bitcoin to back Barbados licensed insurance firm. Barbados regulator Taybit Insurance raised a 40 million insurance facility funded entirely by Bitcoin. One of the biggest problems we have in this industry. Now listen, I think the libertarian self custody people will tell you your keys, your coins, your.
- [04:22]
Stephen Stoneberg
You can keep your key with us. So I can talk about this. So I think. So there's.
- [04:27]
Scott Melker
Let's dive into what you're doing.
- [04:30]
Stephen Stoneberg
I mean this is a lot. So I think, look, insurance, first of all, people glaze over and like I'm not. My background was what I guess within Tradfi it was capital markets and banking. I guess that's like to like one.
- [04:41]
Scott Melker
Kind of cabal and then you have something as well.
- [04:44]
Stephen Stoneberg
So yeah, like big banks like Goldman and Deutsche and J.P. morgan and. Yeah, but I moved into Crypto, you know, I was employee 90 at Binance, so in 2017 and then I, you know, work with CZ. Great guy. I think they built in something incredible. I just thought their tolerance for maybe regulatory risk was a bit higher than mine. And I decided to, you know, I have a lot of respect, but, you know, I'm an American, I've worked in regulated things. I just, I didn't have the risk appetite, shall we say, your own ass. I. No comment. But I went to, you know, I went, I'd already known Bill in the Bittrex, you know, it was. And when I joined cz, it was interesting, you know, but no one, it was very early, like he aspired to be Bittrex, but then it like surpassed it very quickly. But I think, you know, depending on one's interpretation of regulations at the time that affected a growth trajectory. And I just, you know, so Bitrix is smaller and, you know, it was still like very respected in one of the top exchanges. You know, I left three months before FTX to work on this project again. I look omniscient, but it just was interesting timing and we can talk about. I was already thinking like, it's time to do the next sort of convergence play. So anyway, so I think insurance is this big untouched thing, even in like take away crypto. And then when you add crypto in, then you've already lost like 90% of people because it's the intersection of like capital markets, banking, insurance and crypto. So you have to know sort of all three. So anyway, that's, that's kind of what we're trying to humbly attempt to do here. And it's taken a long time to find a regulator. I'm working. My, my partner is Bill Shahara, who is one of the three Bitrix co founders. And you know, this is sort of what we view is like the next big ecosystem to disrupt. And this is just the first kind of commercial step that we think makes sense to sort of attack it. If that gives you kind of our entree and then we can dive into what we're doing here.
- [06:36]
Scott Melker
Well, yeah, I'm just interested as to how this actually functions. Right. This market has obviously lacked protections and I'm assuming that one of the major impediments to institutions and governments and sovereign wealth, everyone else coming in, is what happens if we blow it if I hit the wrong button or if we get hacked or something. You know, how can this possibly be insurance?
- [07:01]
Stephen Stoneberg
They're like, no, they're hard. They're way more so Again, take crypto out of her for a second. Like the capital markets, the bankers, they tend to be more the aggressive ones. It's higher paying that attracts more the best and brightest. You know, insurance is kind of, unless you're Warren Buffett or guys who bought these and run them like financial plays less, you know, not so much just to run them. You know, for insurance, it's like a steadier, stable career path. But you know, it's low risk by definition and it's fragmented, it's regulated by jurisdiction. You have insurance, you have reinsurance. So I think you step Back to like 2013, like what is blockchain done for banking? And you sort of knew the applications, but they created this whole new set of assets that these crypto exchanges. Well, what is that? There's already a stock exchange. You have a parallel set of infrastructure, but there was a parallel set of assets. In insurance. You don't have that. You have all the same problems. You know, it's backward, you know, your balance sheet. What assets can you put on the way they settle trades? Nothing's on the blockchain. It's all paper. And that's how they want to do it. So I think it's ripe for innovation. But you have to sort of, you can't do it all at once. You have to say, okay, where can I start and make money? And then hopefully you aspire to do what's happened to kind of the banking sector. And that's kind of our pragmatic approach. So, you know, I think there's two things on an insurer. Again, let's put crypto aside. There's the insurers. Who are you insuring? Is that a person? Like is it you for your house, your car? That's insurance. If we do it directly, Reinsurance is when you do a big lumpy trade. And I insure another insurer who then just does like a CDO of insurance. And they just want to get rid of like a whole big portfolio and that's reinsurance. That's the two like high level products. And that's all done in dollars on paper and that's institutional product. Right. And then you have separately like the balance sheet of the insurer, like the regulatory capital, like a bank has to put up capital and then you have to have reserves like you hold. So those are your kind of like the basic model. So, you know, I think a lot of people have looked at the insureds like I'm going to be a crypto insurer because I insure you Scott because you're touching crypto and it's like this banking problem. Nobody, you're automatically a criminal. Like you're debating, you can't get insurance. And now you're regulated because they have all these lovely digital assets licenses but nobody will insure you because the insurers don't want to touch. They don't understand it. Like there's just blanket crypto exclusive. You have to have boring things like directors and officers. You have to have it now, you didn't have to before, so you can't even buy it. So that's one way of innovating. But that's still all done in dollars. There's nothing innovative on a piece of paper through a broker. So that's crypto insurance. But then there's the balance sheet of the insurer. Even the companies doing that, they hold dollars. There's nothing innovative. We actually wanted to innovate the balance sheet and put bitcoin on it, maybe other tokens. And then you're solving two problems. A capital constrained industry, new source of capital. Bitcoin alone 1.7 trillion sitting there doing nothing. And we also wanted to create a use case for bitcoin. And that's like, that's all we wanted to do. Obviously there's tons to innovate, but you can't, you have to walk before you run. So that's the problem we, we've been going after and that's what we're trying to solve to start with with tape it and quietly.
- [10:13]
Scott Melker
There's another problem coming from the EU that you alerted me to that this actually solves. But EU watchdog wants insured crypto holdings 100% covered citing volatility. So this is blasting us back to the Stone Ages is in Europe, of course, but the pre sab 121 days. If you have crypto liability and you need to have an asset on the other side of the balance sheet and all these crazy rules, which is insane.
- [10:40]
Stephen Stoneberg
Mercifully we're not in the eu, you know, so we're so the eu. So the way that again insurance banks have the bis, the bank of International Sentiments and these Basel rules and like that defines how they have to hold capital. So you know, a bank can hold crypto if it's holding as a custodian, it's your crypto. If it's holding it on its balance sheet, it's heavily risk weighted. So you know, banks already are inefficient places. Insurers didn't. It wasn't an inefficient No, I mean, there's very few insurers that even have it on their balance sheet. So they're just sort of front running this and saying, hey, now that BlackRock is doing ETFs, like, don't you think you're going to go do this on your balance sheet? Which is fascinating. So they're not even doing it, but they're basically telling them, don't even try, like you're going to get ma, which is insane because, like, why would they. They can hold real estate, they can hold stocks, they can already hold all this weird stuff and not have punitive capital charges like a bank. But you're basically telling them that an asset like Bitcoin that's more liquid is going to be a punitive. So I just. It's really interesting to see that when.
- [11:42]
Scott Melker
You do take it, the mechanics, I'm assuming it's at a tremendous discount. Right. For you to have it on the balance sheet, you can't value it at 100%. A Bitcoin's not $85,000 in dollars for insurance 101.
- [11:57]
Stephen Stoneberg
Like I said, they call them the solvency rule, so they're Solvency 2. That's what European Union insurance and reinsurance firms have to abide by. Interestingly, Bermuda, which is offshore, opted into solvency too. So I think this might apply to this sort of will apply to them. You chose to be under EU rules, like, mercifully, Barbados came in. The United States used solvency one. So this doesn't apply to the United States, which seems to be. So I think you're going to see already a big schism between, a growing schism between the US which is now going so pro crypto under Trump versus the euc, which was, I thought, more proactive, pro crypto versus like the previous regime. Now it seems to be going. Everything changes.
- [12:40]
Scott Melker
When you think about that in the, in the past and obviously like you were at Binance and Bittrex. So, you know, I've spoken, I'm sure.
- [12:47]
Stephen Stoneberg
Because you couldn't do it in the US like, it didn't make sense.
- [12:49]
Scott Melker
But even when Mika was happening, there was this fake cautious optimism that was like, any clarity is better than no clarity, even if it's bad. Right. And so they were making these rules of the road and we were like, at least we're getting something. We know what we can do in the eu. But now when all these things are enacted, we're seeing what's actually happening. Right?
- [13:08]
Stephen Stoneberg
Yep.
- [13:09]
Scott Melker
And this isn't ne. I don't know if this insurance part is part of MICA at all, but.
- [13:13]
Stephen Stoneberg
No, that is, that's all Mika. I mean they have, it's different roles. They have M for like.
- [13:18]
Scott Melker
I mean, yesterday Binance removed USDT from their European exchanges. Right. Because of mica. And we've had Palo Arduino from Tether come out and say the biggest risk to Tether is MICA rules that require us to put our backing, our dollars and euros into fractional reserve banks in Europe. Right. And there's limits on how much.
- [13:40]
Stephen Stoneberg
Assuming they'll give you a bank account that's like, will they even take you as a client? Like you can't make them.
- [13:45]
Scott Melker
I think it's a cautionary tale, right, because you're looking at stablecoin legislation in the United States. By the way, it was kind of just breaking this morning that Congress and the senators are basically holding the line on yield bearing, stable coins, which the industry wants, industry battle. But that's one of those things where if they're earning a yield on it, you would think the customer could get it. We're probably not going to get that. But here's the cautionary tale is that we're cheering for legislation, we're in a great legislative environment, but there could be a lot of unintended consequences to the way they structure it because they don't understand necessarily exactly what they're doing.
- [14:22]
Stephen Stoneberg
That's the whole thing. So they mean well, but they actually like the law of unintended consequences and they just, you know, the market reacts. But it's interesting. So we, so it was just. That was just very timely, I thought, since we were speaking. That came out Friday, so that hasn't passed yet. But that's. It just shows you that's kind of draconian on insurance. If that happens in Europe, not for us, I guess it's better for us because we're out of it. So it makes it worse for them. But you know, so we went to, we talked to, you know, the three major reinsured, you know, insurance captive jurisdictions. They're called like in the Caribbean and they're the biggest in the world. It's like Bermuda came and Barbados and we. Barbados is less well known in the US but they have like hundreds of captives there. So it's not like we chose the Seychelles. We want to be regulated. It's like a proper, proper. You know, I just came back last week from their big insurance conference with the regulator. So unfortunately, no, I. Everyone jokes like I never see the beach. My co founder like gets he Likes that a bit more. I, I don't have time. I'm not there to go to the beach. Go to another beach. But I'm there to work. But the, you know, we, we approach the regulator again, we just try to keep it really simple. Like, we're doing nothing innovative in insurance. On the insurance side of the company, we want to innovate the balance sheet. So on insurers, you can already hold like an asset liability mismatch. Like, everything's in dollars, but you don't have to always hold dollar, red cap. Like, you can have real estate, you can have stocks, they give you a haircut. So this is not a new concept for this industry. But we were like, okay, well, bitcoin, let's just start with that. The biggest, the most liquid, the easiest to understand now. Very institutionalized. You know, I've been watching some of your show episodes. Like, it's sovereign wealth asset. It's on BlackRock's balance sheet. Like, it can't get more vanilla now for crypto. No.
- [16:04]
Scott Melker
Yeah. When you've got the president talking about strategic reserve, you got the president's son.
- [16:10]
Stephen Stoneberg
Meme coin and his wife.
- [16:12]
Scott Melker
Yeah. So why is this even a question mark in any other industry at this?
- [16:16]
Stephen Stoneberg
It's more liquid.
- [16:17]
Scott Melker
Like, I can get why they're not going to allow you to put bonk on the balance sheet or Shiba Inu. Right. But bitcoin, as Michael Saylor has often said, it's the most pristine collateral there is.
- [16:30]
Stephen Stoneberg
But it's on the blockchain. Well, guess what? Every stock is now getting tokenized. So the whole. Everything is going on the blockchain because those are inefficient settlement systems, the old ones. So what does that mean? So when everything's tokenized, does that mean if you won't touch crypto, you'll have no clients because there'll be nothing. That's not. I mean, what is crypto if it's. It's on the blockchain. Like, what. How do you define that? Like, what does that mean? So people don't even understand. You know, they just have, like this fear with. Exactly. It's just, it's unfortunate. A lot of education. It's, you know, it's shocking how, like, it's 2025 and like, it's like we're in 2016. Like, people haven't moved on. But at any rate, we went to the regulator. It was again, this is a. And we talked to multiple regulators. This is a very easy chat. So you already do this for other Assets, this one's more liquid. Can we do the same thing? Give it a haircut, call it dollars, There'll be margin call and you're collateralized. So we got them to agree to a 50% haircut on Bitcoin, which is the market for lending right now. If you want to do a loan against your Bitcoin, they make you collateralize it like that. So that's very conservative. So on our balance sheet, which accounts in cash, let's say that we put in $100 worth of Bitcoin, we get to count $50 as if we have $50 in cash regulatory capital. In insurance, you get what's called insurance leverage. You can write like a multiple of that in terms of how much premium. And then you just go off and do what you're licensed to do. And you were in a real jurisdiction, obviously from a credit standpoint, we're holding twice as much cash value as we need. So we're actually massively over collateralized. Right. And so we're actually safer than a normal insurer. And by the way, we're the first ones, I think globally, where all of our reg cap is held in Bitcoin. It's all on the blockchain. Guess who has a login to our Fireblocks vault for view only access our regulator, our insurance manager. So you have the first insurance company where all the like it's all there. And there have been cases in other jurisdictions where there's fraud. Like the reserves aren't there. If it's cash, you report it every quarter. So that's not possible here. Like it's. So not only is it over collateralized, it's like totally transparent. So that's really, I think that's where we're innovating the balance sheet, not the other side yet. Because you can't attack it all. So keep it simple. So that's what we.
- [18:42]
Scott Melker
Yeah, so we're talking about stablecoins, obviously. And one of the biggest pieces of news yesterday that was lost in the Liberation day madness is that Stablecoin issuers circle files for IPO showing revenue gain. So for anyone who remembers they kind of tried this in the past through reverse, through a SPAC or reverse merger or something. And it wasn't happening with Gensler and Biden, obviously, much like we had no IPOs basically in any industry under that administration. But what I found so interesting about this is guess who's leading the I.P.O. scroll way down, crypto lovers. I'll just tell you. J.P. morgan.
- [19:19]
Stephen Stoneberg
It's J.P. morgan. But the irony of that is, even when it was peak, like Jamie, like, I hate crypto, like the London office of JP Morgan was one of the largest, so which I'm sure he had to be aware of that. So like the official party line under. Because I have to like not piss off whoever was running the government at that point. So it's smart, like he's not going to piss them off, but the entire London office, they were one of the biggest whales in the crypto industry. So I just think that, you know, there's what they say and it's all very political and then there's actually, you know, markets are very commercial, including, you know, him, he wants to make money. So I think he has shareholders to be accountable to. So I think it's a, it's a tricky dance they all have to do. So But I think always sort of, they tell you one thing, always do your homework and see what they're really doing.
- [20:05]
Scott Melker
Yeah, but I think the situation now is that we're going to see an absolute onslaught of companies going public in the United States, which will more, which will unlock more exposure for institutions and all of these things, what you're doing, I mean it all speaks to more ways that the big wall of money is going to find exposure to this industry.
- [20:26]
Stephen Stoneberg
Well, what's interesting when you talk, I was looking at relevant to Circle's ipo. Bill and I were looking at their balance sheet. And like a lot of crypto companies, they're sitting on a massive balance sheet of tokens. And so, but those tokens, remember, most of what do you do with your bitcoin, you hold it, it's gold. Like you actually pay to store it. So you lose money. It's like a negative carry trade. Like gold, you pay for storage, it doesn't give you a return. Now you don't think about how can I make money off my gold? Like, well, you can think that way about bitcoin. You can do a few things with it. They're basically, they amount to unsecured lending, where you're effectively lending it, meaning it can be rehypothecated. You're taking full counterparty risk to earn 3%, maybe 6%. So remember, if there's an FTX type event or a 2008 type event, whoever you've given it to can go out of business, meaning you could lose it all. So is that a good trade? Like, what do you think? Bitcoin, it's at 100 or 80 and it's going up to a million. You want the capital gain, like is it a good trade? I can earn 3% and lose all of it. That's probably a really bad trade. I don't think people think these things through. So I mean the institutions know not to. So it does nothing, it doesn't generate a yield. So ironically, although we've solved a problem for insurers, right, bringing new capital in, we've also solved the problem for the capital holder. Because in our setup where you put the bitcoin into this regulated insurance company, it's actually regulated. You get your own segregated cell. It's called like, it's like a managed account, just your. No commingling of your assets. We're not allowed to rehypothecate your assets. They never leave our balance sheet. You get the exact same bitcoin back. You're long in the capital gain. There's no step up in basis because that's insurance companies are just tax efficient. That's nothing to do with crypto. This is like an old 1960s technology. Like we didn't invent this, we just adapted it. And then you can generate by doing boring insurance. On the other side, US dollars come in and build up and it's all done under insurance accounting. So it's like a, we call it a reinsurance overlay. We can generate cash and this is a boring trade in itself that's pitched to dollar holders like right now for their portfolio. So we're just giving you access to this. It's tax efficient and you're long your bitcoin. And it's regulated. It's one of the few regulated, no counterparty use cases for bitcoin. So we're obviously going to be talking to a lot of crypto holders like you're doing nothing with your bitcoin, which you like. Here's a safe way to earn some yield on some of it. And you can also insure yourself if you wish, like you can solve a bunch of problems on the other side. So that's how we're thinking about this and just trying to baby steps, innovate the balance sheet and help holders of crypto.
- [23:00]
Scott Melker
I mean it's sort of a last topic before I let you go zooming out. You know we have this title tariff tsunami incoming will bitcoin boom or bust. I think what's interesting about that isn't what's going to happen with the price action, but how inextricably tied we now are to a macro and B, trump as an industry. I mean, does that surprise concern anything? I mean it's literally like now our assets move based on whatever he says on truth social on any given day. It's never supposed to be that way.
- [23:30]
Stephen Stoneberg
Well, I think, you know, there's, I mean that I think the whole world's moving this way. I think so it's not. Is it the Trump effect or is it just how we are as a global society communicating? He's just, you know, doing it much better than other politicians. I think it is interesting and it was, in fact I was, as I was walking, it's all very exciting. I do like my morning talk walk and I was thinking, well, what happens if he doesn't win? And like you just don't know what's going to happen.
- [23:52]
Scott Melker
And if you go Elizabeth Warren to be the chair of the Financial Committee. No, I mean like she's the ranking member from the Democrats. If they lose the Senate, she's in charge.
- [24:00]
Stephen Stoneberg
Yeah. So it's fun. It's. You actually, you know, everyone's like, bring your things onshore and do it all onshore. But is that the right. So I mean, it's sort of interesting. You have, I think you raised a very good point. I mean it's fascinating what he's doing. Obviously, you know, I think anyone in the industry, it's positive for our industry. But you also have to think, you know, going back to the Jamie Dimon comment, well, what happens if you hope for the best, prepare for the worst? Perhaps one still has to assume we could go back to a less but so you have to. Now it's very tricky navigating, but I don't think that's crypto. I think that's just life. You know, you have to, you know, put that into account. But obviously our industry is much more in sort of regulatory crosshairs and gets a lot of attention.
- [24:38]
Scott Melker
Awesome. I love what you're building and can't wait to see what comes of it. This industry desperately needs.
- [24:44]
Stephen Stoneberg
Yes. And the insurance, it's just, I mean it's a great industry, but it is. So you know, it. They're not. They don't like innovation, period.
- [24:52]
Scott Melker
Like, this is so scary, insurance. Right. I mean their job is to be risk averse. I can get that.
- [24:58]
Stephen Stoneberg
This is actually de risking and like that's the irony. Like even they're so risk averse that de risking is too risky for them. So at any rate, it's creating opportunity if one has the patience. That's why you haven't heard from me in a while. Taking a long time to get here. Now I'm allowed To talk. Yeah, we have my licenses on that's Barbados flag. So we're, you know, we're very happily regulated and licensed. So, you know, great to be back, Scott. Happy to come on anytime. And, you know, thank you, Stephen.
- [25:26]
Scott Melker
Guys, give him a follow on X. It's right down in the description. And Stephen will speak very soon. Thank you.
- [25:32]
Stephen Stoneberg
Thanks.
- [25:34]
Scott Melker
All right, everyone. Obviously we usually have Christopher Inks here on Wednesdays, but he is not present. He is sick today. And he usually takes a look at the bitcoin charts for us in his honor. I'll just take a quick look at the bitcoin chart, which I think is the snooze fest of all time. And honestly, at this point, I don't think the chart has been telling us very much. I think we are being Trumpified and we're just waiting to see what he does. But from a charting perspective, I mean, we do have kind of a clear, symmetrical triangle forming whatever. We have a support and a resistance. If you want to choose a direction, you're looking for either a breakdown, I think, of this ascending line or a breakout of the descending line right above. And a lot of people pointing out this death cross coming from the 5200 Ma, not guaranteed. But in my humble opinion, those are not tradable because they're a result of what's happened before, and that's what's going to happen in the future. I mean, in my mind here on the daily chart, we still have an intact bullish divergence when it was oversold. My bias still for bitcoin, although it's not very popular, it's to go up. And if it goes up tomorrow or in six months or in a year, I think it's going to go up. That's my bias, and I really believe it. That said, all coins have just been a dumpster fire wrapped in a, you know, just absolute shit show. It's been horrible. And I think a lot of people and myself included were expecting that we would see this massive Q1 run from Altcoins, as we have every four years at this point in the cycle when bitcoin goes up and finally goes sideways. And instead, what we've seen is 17 million tokens launched on Pump Fun and a bunch of degenerates pumping and dumping on each other and with minimal interest in utility, which is a nice segue to the one Wednesday sponsor we have here, which is aptos, as you guys know, because. Because you watch this show every Wednesday for many, many months, and you've seen Avery on here and all the amazing things that they're doing. But just to keep you updated, because utility does actually matter, Aptos stablecoin market cap has hit a new high of $1.05 billion. That's 680.3 million in USDT and 284.5 million in USDC. Obviously, this is a very good check on the health of the system or how much interest there is. Their Dex volume is up 53.5% in one month. Of course, they've had an incredible first quarter. 70 million active wallets, 2.5 billion in transactions, 1 billion in TVL and stablecoins increased X volume, increased perp volume. And I was talking to Avery about this. You guys know Avery Chang, obviously, who's the CEO and founder after Mo left, became CEO. They've also, much like everyone else, been in Washington lobbying and working to make sure that we get that reasonable and smart regulation that we were discussing just before. I'm pretty hopeful that we're actually going to get the stablecoin legislation that we want and market structure beyond that. I think it's anyone's guess what's going to happen, but you guys should absolutely check out aptos, everything that they're building. For those who don't remember, this is, you know, they were the original team from Libra at Facebook, which then became Meta and then it Libra became dm and then Mark Zuckerberg went in front of Congress to try to pitch private money and a stable coin from Facebook and got absolutely eviscerated and it was never going to happen. Right. And then I think David Marcus, who is leading the team, went and started building on Lightning PayPal guy. These guys went, they built Aptos, and I think everybody's pretty happy at this point. The irony is that I think once we get stablecoin rest, stablecoin legislation will probably end up with Facebook money again because I think we're going to get private stable coins from pretty much every huge tech company in the world. Guys, that's all I got for you today. I'll be on crypto Town hall on spaces at 10:15am Eastern Standard Time. Check that out. And of course, be back tomorrow with Iago. That's all I got for you guys. Have a good one.