← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:01]
A
There is one specific thing that is standing between Bitcoin and a new fresh all time high. Just one thing. This is according to our friend Matt Hogan. And I'm not going to spoil it. I'm going to go ahead and talk about it when we start the show today with Andrew and Tillman. Let's go.
- [00:24]
B
Let's do. Let's do.
- [00:39]
A
Good morning Wolf Pack. Happy Tuesday and welcome to the show. We have Andrew and Tillman here. You guys gotta like and subscribe. I never asked you to do that. But apparently algorithm cares. Smash the like. Subscribe. Did you guys see the new Chappelle special where he's talking about Martin Luther King? He's like like and subscribe. Smash the like button.
- [01:02]
B
He's the best. Good morning guys.
- [01:04]
A
You know what? Andrew showed up really angry.
- [01:07]
C
Yeah, well I fixed it. It's cotton headed mini muggins is what it is.
- [01:12]
A
Mini muggins. He called me a cotton headed something.
- [01:16]
C
Yeah, I screwed it up. It's. It's gotten headed nanny muggins and I was wondering if, if Scott was wearing a Wawa sweatshirt.
- [01:23]
A
It's not Wawa, it's Bucky's. I've never been to a Buc EE's.
- [01:28]
C
But I actually heard, I actually heard that it's pronounced Bussies.
- [01:35]
A
You're a. But I can't wait to see how big the BUC EE's is in Greenland. But anyways, let's, let's talk about, you know, things that people actually care about here, which I, I don't think actually is BUC EE's in Greenland but we have, I'm going to try to bring it up. We have the one thing, the one big thing standing between Bitcoin. New all time highs. Of course for anybody who doesn't know, it's the Clarity act. And this is according to Matt Bogan from Bitwise. We're going to get clarity and then Bitcoin's going to act and we're going to go to an all time high immediately and it's going to be amazing. What do you think?
- [02:14]
C
I was unaware that we were in a crypto winner. When did that happen?
- [02:19]
A
I don't know. A negative look at most crypt. Crypto cryptos and you might feel a.
- [02:25]
C
Negative 3% bitcoin years now. Crypto winner. What a world we live in. Yeah, I mean betting on politicians to somehow bring us out of a crypto winner is. Is. I don't know. I'm not entirely sure I'd put any money.
- [02:40]
A
Very cypherpunk. Yeah.
- [02:45]
C
Betting on frankly the banking lobby to find a way to bring us out of crypto Winter is probably a better way to say it, because the banking lobby is in overdrive to try and shut down the idea of yield with stable coins and yield and defy and all the things that are connected with innovation currently in the crypto space. I hearken back to something Tillman had to say maybe a few weeks ago, that even if the Clarity act just doesn't happen, it doesn't stop the fact that there's yield to be had on Coinbase and all other exchanges and it's already happening and available to you and is not going to turn off Clarity.
- [03:27]
A
Doesn'T happen, then we know that we'll have yield.
- [03:33]
B
It's kind of my point. It's like, what are we even talking about? It's happening right now as we speak, and it's happening by the largest exchanges on the face of the earth. So we've got some pretty good weight in our corner. The things that I think are still holding it up are quite honestly the bipartisan get rich, politicians get rich. It's okay for, for, you know, every politician to have insider knowledge and trade stocks literally straight from the floor on their phones, but it's not okay for Trump's kids to own a crypto exchange. I really think at the, at the bottom down, you know, boiled down bottom line, that's probably what we're dealing with is just, you know, the same old garbage that we always have to deal with politics. And, you know, that I don't, I don't think that the yield on stablecoins is as big as a issue as they're making it out to be again, because it's already happening and you see the largest banks in the world already getting ahead of it so that they can do it too. I think that, that probably in my mind is the scapegoat. So they don't look childish as it pertains to why it's really not being, you know, being finalized.
- [04:57]
A
Right.
- [04:57]
B
Because there's been a lot of talk about, you know, self dealing and I know how important it is to the left side of the aisle that Trump walks away from this as wounded as possible. And that's not going to happen if the current lay of the land plays out the way that we think it is. Owning a crypto exchange, having a bank license is, is, in my opinion, probably the ripest place to be as it pertains to catching low hanging fruit in the world right now. And, and they're in that spot. So I You know, I don't know, it's just more, you know, politics is, I guess that's now a four letter word for me. So every time I say that, I want you guys to think of it that way. Yeah, exactly.
- [05:43]
A
I've been saying this. I literally like tweeted and I remind everybody once every three to six months because either they think I have BDS against Democrats or TDS against Trump. I've never been prouder to be an unaffiliated voter because I too view politics as a four letter word. And I can't imagine like identifying wholesale with any politician or party. And that has nothing to do with them. It has to do with being a free thinking human being that can't be put into two buckets. But call me crazy for that. But before Andrew, you jump in, I want to just give the update because there is actually news. Senate panel releases bill allowing some stablecoin rewards. So obviously Coinbase made a big stink. Yeah, but so listen, this was basically like litigated and discussed and put to bed with genius, we thought. Right. So the banking lobby obviously seeing Clarity as an opportunity to reopen the yield conversation. But now this was enough, apparently, that Coinbase will be happy with it and the big ones, but they change the language and there's a manager amendment, but this is bipartisan coming out of the Senate Banking Committee. So it looks like at least they've come up with some sort of compromise that will allow some sort of yield that's sufficient. And Lummis is saying, hey, we're ready to go. Right? Like, this is markup in two days. Let's get it done.
- [06:59]
C
So, you know, the devils are always in the details. Two points that I'll make that are somewhat disassociated from each other. First, some of the lobbying that went on last week in earnest. You know, there was documentation out there. There was actually a visual that was being done by one side of the aisle that was, you know, concerned about yield and concerned about other stuff, was on the banking side saying, stop defi because defi would hurt innovation. And I looked at that and I'm like, who put that out? Like, who?
- [07:31]
A
They have their own definition of innovation. Their definition of innovation is their own bank deposit.
- [07:38]
B
So defi is suicidal because it is innovation.
- [07:42]
C
So, you know, I couldn't believe that I was even looking at it. I'm like, what in the world? And so. And then secondarily, I've seen some things this morning where they're, you know, there's a little bit of language in, in the current iteration of the bill that talks about cold storage, wallets, that is a little bit concerning. So yeah, the devil's in the details on this stuff. And again, once politics joins the party, nothing ever gets better. Nothing.
- [08:13]
A
I believe the language that you're looking at is that they've decided you can have up to 1.1% yield, but you're. You go to jail if you self custody or assets.
- [08:27]
B
Come here for the hot take on the news this morning.
- [08:32]
A
Jail. Jail for self custody. Straight to beaming.
- [08:38]
B
No, listen, we knew self custody was always going to be something that bothered them, but we also knew it's something that they can do absolutely nothing about. So, you know, again, good luck talking about these things. Unless that would be no different than me saying, listen, dryers are outlawed. You can't dry your clothes at your house with any means other than hanging it on a line. You know, good luck enforcing that. It doesn't work that these protocols were built for self custody. Unless you want to scrap the protocols themselves and try to reinvent bitcoin from square one. Ethereum from square one. Like unless you want to basically scrap the current crypto landscape and try to rebuild it from its ashes with a protocol that does not allow self custody. There is absolutely no way to enforce that. There's not there. In fact, I would argue that anyone talking about that on the floor pertaining to this bill just is showing how unknowledgeable they are about the industry and, and really showing how, how stupid they are, honestly. So, you know, it's not even worth talking about.
- [09:45]
C
It's also the law of unintended consequences. So yeah, you can't stop that. But that doesn't mean if for some reason you get yourself in a position where you're dealing with an issue with the IRS or some level of the government and they tack on an additional something associated with, well, you've got these, you know, self custody wallets, which in this previous thing you're not supposed to have those at this amount, this amount or that amount. And now you're, you've got additional issues that you're dealing with, associated with, with.
- [10:17]
B
The law, but you really don't is the point, this is all a talking point just to try to sound smart when they're not smart. Think about it. It's the same thing. There's taxable events that are outside the irs. Privy right now, Andrew, if you go to somebody and you sell your car and you take that cash and you buy a baseball card and that baseball card goes up in value over 10 years. There's all sorts of stuff like that that isn't, here's the point. If you make the on ramp and the off ramps easy to use and you allow the banks to be competitive so that they can offer the best reason why I would want to hold my money on their exchange versus my cold storage wallet. Free market incentives are the way we should be responding to this. Not with, oh, you know, we're going to enforce this at a level that can't be enforced, but we're going to scare you with a lot of words so that you do what we want you to do. How about you incentivize people to do what you want me do what you want them to do. And the way you do that is by literally cutting the red tape for these banks and cutting the red tape for the exchanges so that they can offer defi on their platform. You know, what's a better thing than defi and getting the yield of defi, getting it without the hassle of defi. And that's literally what we have to offer the people with this exchange based defi integration. And that's what politicians should be focused on, is taking the world stage in that regard so that people are going, oh man, if I put my money on this exchange that's based in America, I can earn 8% yield. I mean, yeah, that's a no brainer.
- [12:07]
C
I would simply add that, you know, JP Morgan has a wallet now Morgan Stanley is going to have a wallet. Coinbase has wallets, everybody has wallets. My guess is, is that the way that they're thinking about this is we like those wallets. Those wallets are good and okay, but we don't like the wallets that are self custody, that aren't connected to any of that stuff. We don't like those. So you know how they go about doing that.
- [12:32]
B
I'm just, you know, cautioning, let's dissect that statement. They're not, they're not distinguishing amongst the wallets because the wallets are the same. They're just distinguishing amongst the wallet holders. They're not saying we don't like these wallets, they're saying we don't like, we like these people. They're allowed to have wallets and we don't like you because the wallets are the exact same. There's no distinction they are.
- [12:55]
A
But to Andrew's point, a Morgan Stanley wallet, I'm quite sure that if you do something that they don't like, they can enter said wallet and do with the assets as they please. Not necessarily the case of the self custody wallet. Like if you have a ledger, they can't come take that. They can come take all your data every three to four years and then use it to fish you.
- [13:17]
C
Especially if it's a ledger. Yeah, that's true.
- [13:22]
A
Once every three years like the clockwork. But you know, they can't take your assets. Yeah, but yeah, you're being way too rational because it would seem that the bank lobby, if they didn't want to get replaced after seeing what happens to incumbents, the Sears Roebucks and the blockbusters of the world, they would say let's look for ways to incorporate this so that we can give our customers yield. But no, it shows a much more nefarious intention beneath which is that they need to protect the fact that they're the ones who keep all of the yield that already exists in or outside of defi and not pass it off to their customers. Correct. They intentional system meant to enrich the banks and to keep you poor or just enough yield not to riot and show up with pitchforks and torches.
- [14:14]
B
Well, if you're a bank that's a slave to yield, then you're not going to like this. If you're a bank that's not. Then you are. And if you look at the segment of the population of what we'd call bankers, like the Larry Finks of the world, they're not looking at this for yield purposes. They're looking at this for transactional volume, for depth of liquidity. They're looking at it because they're market makers. And that's how it should be looked at is because there's a much bigger pie to create here. It's always the age old question in business businesses, do you want a big piece of a small pie or a small piece of a big pie? And by opening up this innovation and allowing people in every corner of the earth to find a safe haven of depository of crypto in the US and be able to utilize that crypto with clarity to generate yield and then pay taxes on that yield just like every other thing we do. It's not like we're saying don't pay taxes on it. We're saying the on ramps and the off ramps are sufficient to govern the taxable events that are needed to be governed as it pertains to hard or cold storage, wallet, self custody. That's the same mechanisms that we have today. No different than, you know, any other industry. It's really about their lack of understanding of our Industry and their fear of being displaced tomorrow. And here's the truth. There's going to be a lot of slow adopters and there will be a final hammer that strikes the gavel. And when that hammer does, the people who haven't been, you know, actively trying to adopt blockchain as a bank, people who haven't been researching this, people who haven't hired crypto departments, they deserve to go extinct. Well, they've been burying their head in the sand for two decades. So like, you know, that's the nature of the free markets, that's the nature of capitalism, is the slow adopters are making a bet. Whether they like it or not. They're making a bet that Bitcoin and this whole blockchain thing is not as disruptive and it's not as permanent as we all think it is. Good luck with your bet. I'm making the opposite bet.
- [16:26]
A
It depends on which corner of that market and industry you go to. This is an interesting story. Monero hits record high after 44% rally just hours after UAE privacy token ban so listen, we saw the privacy narrative catching a hell of a lot of tailwinds over the past few months, obviously on the backs of Zcash pulling 10 12x in 3 or 4 months. But then we started to hear a lot more about even privacy at the corporate and institutional level. I had on Yuval last week from Canton Network who had the announcers with TTTC and JP Morgan and such, and he made the point that, well, I used to work for Ken Griffin at Citadel. Citadel can't have their orders broadcasted to the world. They need privacy if they're going to do these things on blockchain. So there's a level of privacy there. But at the personal privacy level, I was scratching my head when zcash went flying and said, why not Monero? Monero is the og. This is the original.
- [17:21]
B
It's a better protocol too. It's layer one security.
- [17:24]
A
I guess at the first level my answer was because it's already been banned from all the exchanges, so all the speculators can't get it, but they're finding a way. I think that this just speaks to the overarching conversation that we're having about good luck banning this stuff or getting rid of it or no self custody. Because where there's a will, there's a way. And I don't think there's a better example than Monero making a new all time high here and doing it when people are trying to ban privacy.
- [17:53]
B
Yeah, well, banning this is like trying to ban violence. It's been around since day one of humanity, and it'll be around till the end. It's just, it's just, it's part of humanity. Markets create themselves arbitrage opportunities. When governments come in and create legislation that artificially suppresses industry and growth that is naturally occurring based upon market dynamics that are uncontrollable to man, when that takes place, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. And when the cat finally does come out of the bag, it's, it's an extinction event for a lot of people. And so they're just. The longer we delay, the more damage is done, is the way I like to put it. And we're at a point now where I think everybody's kind of fed up. We thought we were going to have clarity a long time ago. And, you know, can they just get something in place that allows us to look like we have leadership in the world in this area? Like, can we just convey some confidence? That's what I'd like to, considering that we have the smartest people in the world working on this right here.
- [19:08]
A
Literally three of them.
- [19:10]
B
Literally.
- [19:12]
C
They certainly don't reside on Capitol Hill, that's for sure. But just a quick pivot to the whole Fed thing with Jerome Powell and.
- [19:23]
A
And.
- [19:26]
B
Talking about Andrew. Is that another big story that's going on right now?
- [19:29]
C
Yeah, it's, that's a, it's a, it's a different story, but it, it kind of has some of the same strings to pull on. Right. So, you know, it feels like what a, what an overreaction and sort of, you know, the, the lady protesteth too much. Right? Like, holy cow, the entire world of federal, you know, reserve type bankers came, came to his, his defense and there hasn't even been an indictment. Like, what, what are we talking about here? It seems as if, please don't pull the curtain this way or that way because we don't want you to see whatever is going on behind here that we don't want to talk about. Really interesting stuff. And again, just goes to, you know, bitcoin as an ethos, bitcoin as a movement, crypto as a movement, versus the idea that, you know, there's, you know, a few people sitting around a conference room table making decisions around money for the entire world for forever.
- [20:28]
B
Well, I think it shines a light on a more pressing question, Andrew, which is should a, should a sovereign nation control its own monetary policy?
- [20:39]
C
Yeah, because the, the interesting. I, I read something from Jeff park yesterday that talked about when the Fed kind of came into existence. And it was in connection with the treasury, by the way. It was in connection with the treasury and it was, you know, talking about. I don't remember exactly what, how he put it together, but it was well written. And it talked about the fact that their job was not to be political. Their job was to simply, you know, find a way to, to have common ground with the Treasury. Right. So the whole idea of Fed independence, when it came about it was not to be independent at all. It was to be in lockstep with the.
- [21:24]
B
Yeah, but it can't. It's not even. It's me. Gets to a rudimentary level of simplicity, which is that unless you're a single entity, there's always a conflict of interest when you're governing other people's affairs. And so the question becomes, is like, who should be setting monetary policy? Should it be the government and the people that are literally working to pay off that debt that's being printed, or should it be a third party that's supposed to be outside of that governance? And I'm not asking facetiously. I'm literally asking because there's a lot of smart people out there. I have read a lot of. Of books on this subject, and, you know, the Federal Reserve and the way in which it was created, I don't know if it would be created today. That would be my, my question. So the question is, is if it wouldn't be created today, and it is created today, and there is a power struggle between the two entities that we look to for leadership, which is them and our government, who wins that battle at the end of the day, because somebody has to. We have to. The government is all about having rules of engagement and power structures that are delineated in writing before the conflict takes place so that we don't have to argue and we can all get behind democracy and go, okay, in a situation where you have found both of those entities as opposing one another, what, what's best to.
- [23:00]
C
So I found the Post, and it says, you know, people cite the 1951 accord as kind of the birth of Fed independence, but then there's, there's quotes from when that happened. It says, the treasury and Federal Reserve have reached full accord to pursue their common purpose, to assure successful financing of the government's requirements, at the same time, minimize monetary monetization of the public debt. They asked a couple questions. He says, what is successful financing of government's requirement, if not explicit commitment to the Treasury? What is to Minimize, if not specifically to eliminate. And what is common purpose, if not political.
- [23:38]
B
That's exactly what I'm saying. There's a conflict of interest by very definition inside of those walls.
- [23:43]
C
Right. So. So, you know, so you add those thoughts, which are real and for some reason have been lost, and then you add to the fact that, you know, it's a reasonable question to ask, you know, why does the Federal Reserve need $3 billion in improvements to their facilities like that? That seems a little strange.
- [24:05]
A
They can do better monetary policy.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah.
- [24:08]
C
So they can sit around and talk and then once a quarter have a common, you know, have a conversation about.
- [24:13]
A
In the bathrooms in that old building.
- [24:15]
C
Yeah. Conversation about, you know what? Should we or should we not. I don't think we're going to do anything this quarter. We're going to leave things alone. Like, seriously.
- [24:25]
A
But the budget is congressionally approved, so, I mean.
- [24:28]
C
Yeah. So there's other things, like, you know, are there going to be like, gardens on the top of the. Frank, it's, it's all nuts. Is it? Is what it is. Like, okay, it was a version of what's born out of this is the excesses of, let's call it four or five, three years ago, where nothing was being checked. Nobody was ever asking any questions. It was just government spending as much money as they could possibly spend and nobody, nobody cares. Right. Well, now when somebody asks a question, it's kind of tough to go back and say, well, yeah, we, you know, we, we think there's a real reason to have gardens on the top of all of these buildings for monetary policy discussions. Like that sounds ridiculous, right? That, that doesn't make any sense. So it's just interesting how this, you know, something like this plays out. And also, okay, it's, it's, it's more.
- [25:22]
B
It'S more insidious, honestly, than that. I live in a place where gardens on roofs are mandatory in some of the counties near me. And, and I'm not kidding, they're mandatory. And it caught, it drove the cost of building up like 5x, because to grow grass on a roof and have plants and stuff, you basically have to put a concrete, you know, barrier this thick, which requires a crane on site during construction. Like, it adds a level of cost and ridiculousness that you wouldn't believe if I told you, but they do it because it's green. And so once you find yourself in these circles, and Aspen is the town I'm talking about, just FYI, and once you find yourself in those circles where everyone agrees that this is the standard operating procedure going forward. There is no questioning it, Andrew. There's no cost analysis beyond that point.
- [26:24]
A
More or less than 30% of the year because I. Aspen and it's really cold.
- [26:31]
B
Yeah, it grows like three months out of the year. And you know, I, you have a dog elevator to take your dog up there so that he can go up there versus down on the street. That's an added rich list bonus.
- [26:43]
A
Rich people do not like stepping in dog feed.
- [26:46]
B
I told you, Timmy, the dog should go on the roof. Get them outside.
- [26:50]
C
You know, it's like there's nobody in that, in those rooms saying, what are we even talking? What are we talking about?
- [26:59]
B
There's no audit. There's no questioning. Listen, if you question the, the group think, you're out of the group. That's the, that's the rule of the group think, by the way.
- [27:08]
C
It is. So point is, is that it all paints a picture, right? So, so this particular, you know, the last 24 hours with the whole Fed thing, it paints a different picture of the body language when Trump's standing there in a, with the, with the hard hat and pulling out papers and, you know, this Fed chair is like, I don't know.
- [27:28]
B
Well, you know what, the picture it paints, it paints. The picture for me is like that these things go to sleep for a while, but they're not dead. That they, they rise back and we have to deal with them. Because the whole interest rate thing, we could feel the tension two, two rates ago, you know, when we were kind of going like, what are they going to raise her? Are they going to raise 100 basis points? 50, 20, like, what. What's going to take. And you could, you could feel the tension between the two parties back then. So to think that it's not gonna go, it's, it's gonna go away is a naive of us. It's just going to resurface and resurface until one party finally wins or capitulates.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah.
- [28:09]
C
It's again, what ends up at the bottom of that argument are actual rates that affect actual normal people. And so to have two parties warring against each other, and one might say, well, I'm going to piss you off, so I'm going to raise interest rates in January just before I leave. Like, that hurts regular people. Right.
- [28:32]
B
But it also hurts. And here's the problem. It's like we all have our opinions, but at the truth of the matter. There's very complicated issues here that are like, okay, should a president be able to raise interest rates for short term, good for political reasons to get votes. Absolutely not. Is that what's being done? Absolutely not. So it's just hard to divide the baby. I don't think anybody has the skills to do it. But the reality of it is if you have a maestro leading your financial orchestra and you believe that he can create economic growth through his natural tendencies, honestly, then why wouldn't you trust a president that has proven to have those types of tricks in his bag? Why wouldn't you take his advice on when the interest rates should be dropped and how much they should be dropped? Doesn't mean have to do what he says. But it's obvious that there's a resistance to doing anything that he says. And that's the problem is like you can't go into a role or a duty like being the Fed Chair with such an opposition to the President that you can't even hear the words that are coming out of his mouth at face value like that. That's we're all screwed if that's where.
- [30:00]
A
It does not matter what the message is. All that matters is the messenger. That' the way that this works. I don't know if you guys have seen the video of the woman tragically dying in Minnesota, but even if your eyes have seen it, your interpretation of that video is likely determined entirely by your politics and not by what your eyes are seeing. I'm not making judgment either way, but basically everyone who I know is on the right thinks that it was justified. And basically everyone I know who's on the left thinks that it was murder. Politics don't determine like facts when or opinions when you're viewing things, but it's an example of just how politically divided and that all that matters right now is the messenger.
- [30:42]
B
Well, listen, the murder comes to the man's heart. No one knows that but him. We can look at evidence against a murder and we as a society can say that that's murder and we can determine that it's murder if we choose to do so. But really the definition of murder comes from within someone's intent. So. So if that cop knew exactly what he was doing and he was trying to bait her to make a move to be justified in shooting her, then it was murder. If, if he was just doing his job, oblivious to that and felt threatened for his life, and he acted upon that in his sovereign rights as an officer, you know, then he. It wasn't murder. But for us to sit here based upon that video and determine that it's impossible. That's why they Court cases where they have, you know, jurors and months and months of deliberation and all that. That's due process. Right? It's America. We just want whatever confirmation bias that we have to be supported with the headline. It's insane. I don't, especially around somebody's life, like, can we not pull the political curtain.
- [31:52]
A
Back a little bit, way down a slippery slope that I did not intend and that that's my fault. But I want to go back to crypto a little bit. Mike Novogratz tells Scaramucci Crypto treasuries will trade below nav without real strategy. Not going to get shareholder value just by that was all of us falling asleep was reflective of all of us reading headlines about digital asset treasury companies. But listen, we know that you have a fund that actually takes cash flow to do this, so I think everybody here agrees. But yeah, maybe buying a whole bunch of bitcoin at the top and then hoping for the best isn't an actual corporate strategy.
- [32:34]
C
Well, Novogratz and Scaramucci are in unique positions within the crypto industry. Whatever you think of them and the different moves that they've made, they've made some moves that have been really extraordinary. Like Scaramucci's Skybridge Capital essentially seed funded BlackRock's iBIT product, which is their most successful product in the history of blackrock. That seemed, you know, pretty good move there by Scaramucci. Novogratz has been on the cutting edge of, of the crypto movement from the get go and walked away for all intents and purposes from a tradfi career that was wildly successful in the first place, to go all in on crypto. So those guys carry enormous weight. It's concerning a little bit that it's taken them this long to kind of come out and say what you were saying almost a year ago now, Scott, that digital asset treasury companies were a bubble back at the bitcoin conference and they've shown themselves to be a real bubble devoid of actual ongoing revenue streams to justify the purchase of whatever digital asset they're interested in. So, but again, that's how far the tide has turned associated with these types of companies. You have to have meaningful revenue generation. There's got to be a plan associated with that that's probably equally as important, if not more important associated with the movement of a particular digital asset treasury company or a fund of any kind of. It's the ongoing revenue that's being generated and the quality of that revenue, the quality of the companies associated with that revenue. So that the entity, on an ongoing basis, stays healthy for a long time. Specifically when we have, according to, you know, bitwise, we're in a current, you know, crypto winner. So when you have crypto winners, you got to be in a really, really good spot foundationally if you're going to run a digital asset, treasury company or a fund, because those companies that are inside of, of the fund itself have to be doing well. You know, they have to be an ongoing entity that, that does really well to fund the purchase of Bitcoin or Ethereum or whatever asset you, you believe in. So, you know, it's, it's adjusted and changed and for the better. Jack Mahlers has been talking about this for a couple months now. But some, you know, they're, they're struggling to make the adjustment. The reason why they're struggling to make the adjustment is when they got $700 million immediately said buy everything and have no options. You don't have any more money left.
- [35:23]
A
I mean, if they believe that the gravy train would continue, that they could just pull a strategy and do what he was doing no matter what. And then all of a sudden, nobody had any interest in structures that they were trying to, you know.
- [35:36]
C
Yeah, but honestly, that wasn't even pulling out.
- [35:39]
A
Taylor's buying 1.25 billion last week in CR in Bitcoin, as, I mean, but.
- [35:44]
C
He was, he's been doing it with different levers for a long time. First it was revenue from, you know, whatever work microstrategy and software and the stuff they did as an actual company. And then it morphed and then it was some debt and then it was equity and then it was let's create additional equity and debt type stuff and, and, and fund it that way. There's been a bunch of different ways that that sailor has funded the, his bitcoin purchases over the past five years. A bunch of different ways as opposed to let's go raise debt, buy a zombie company and then buy, you know, $500 million of Bitcoin right now, Click, you know, that's just not.
- [36:24]
B
Well, cash flow is king, right? And in any business, and when you are void of cash flow, if the market timing that you're betting on doesn't work out the way that you think it is, you're either going to have to be really patient or you're going to be a forced seller. And we're, we're seeing, you know, like you said, if you look at markets like bodies of water, you need fresh movement of water into A body or it turns into a swamp and everything kind of gets dirty and grimy and slow and smelly. You need fresh like a river is fresh liquidity flowing in. And if you look at these treasury companies, there's no fresh liquidity. It's all stagnation. It's just the same money, recycling, hoping that they're going to take more from the next guy. And in, in some regards, you know, without new liquidity, you are relying on the greater fools theory, right? You're relying on somebody to pay more than you did for the same. And as time goes on, if you don't have new fresh liquidity to place into the market that doesn't have a negative impact on your current shareholders, you're forced to shove a negative impact and dilution down all your shareholders throats. And that's exactly what we're seeing right now. And so I think a lot of the treasury companies were baited into the same thing that gets a lot of people in trouble, which is like fame. They'd rather announce that they're buying $700 million of Bitcoin than actually think about how they should buy $700 million in Bitcoin. And you know, that's a very tempting thing to do when you can take the world stage for your own. And I think that's what a lot of, a lot of people fell into, honestly. Just kind of the simple thing that.
- [38:17]
A
I asked how they should be buying it. Oh no.
- [38:22]
B
Keeping dry powder and raising money on the back of net operating income to buy it is what we believe here at Arch Public. So it's the Bitcoin's most potent characteristics are its hedge against inflation, its savings power in the form of increased purchasing power at a future date. All of those things are what make it the best hard asset in the world. And so buying it on debt is literally combining something that has pristine class with something that has low class. And so what we believe is both from our fund and from our software perspective is buy incrementally, use your net income to produce value in your life and then store that value in something that has shown to be an incredibly effective tool to store it in. And whether it's 3% allocation, 10% allocation, 50% allocation, that's up to you. And our tools help you decide how to do that and make it very easy to get to that allocation percentage. That's what they're about. But really at the core of what we believe is don't buy bitcoin with any debt. That is a bad move. It will force you to be a forced seller at some point. Don't buy bitcoin when everyone's talking about it on all the pumps. Use strategic automated tools like we have at Arch Public to set parameters in place that say, if bitcoin dips by this much, I want to buy some bitcoin. And then you define how much that is. You spread your capital out over a long period of time so that you get a really healthy exposure to the cost curve that bitcoin provides you. And bitcoin's cost curve is an asset because it's extremely volatile and there's a lot of yield farming that can be done with tools like this if you are patient and know how to do it. If you ape in and you smash by at the very top and you have all of your powder allocated at that price point, you're out of the game until you're right. And even when you're right, you're faced with kind of a, a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of a decision, which is, you know, I'm up in my position. Do I sell my winners to pay for real world expenses? That's a bad, that's a bad way to go. You should be riding your winners and cut losers quickly off. And so, you know, those are, those are the types of things that we believe in. Those are the types of tools that we've created to help people manage the markets in a way that's completely hands off, but at the same time incredibly sophisticated. Our team loves to do it. And if you want to use our products for absolutely free to see what we're talking about, go to our website.
- [41:15]
A
Archpublic.Com and my favorite thing is now Sunday nights are my favorite thing because I got so used to the dopamine hit of having my buys trigger when we actually had volatility in this market, which was awesome. I'd wake up in the morning and be like, yeah, I just bought the dip. This is amazing. My favorite thing that stopped happening because bitcoin is glued to like $91,000 perpetually now. But on Sunday, I have the intelligence algorithms, three of them set up and they fire off on the weekly generally and buy me more bitcoin on Sunday night, Regardless of what's been happening throughout the week. I think that I have what I would describe as a God tier setup. Yeah, algorithms.
- [41:59]
B
It's taking you two and a half months to get exactly dialed into what you want. But you, I would agree with you. You've got. You've got it dialed in for sure.
- [42:08]
C
Your journey, frankly, was exactly what we're discussing with, you know, digital asset treasury companies. Like you got into it, you're like, wait a minute, it's starting to move up. I, I need to get in now because what I, I don't want to miss this. I, I, now we're like, okay, well we can set some of that up and it's going to grab some stuff now, but I'm telling you, you're probably going to change your tune a little bit. And then there was an adjustment and then another adjustment and then another adjustment. Then finally you got to the point where, you know what, intelligent accumulation, some arbitrage. This, this stuff is just better than my emotions at this. It's way better than my emotions at it. And effectively the tools themselves have now retrained the way that you think about it. It, and it's, it's, you know, they've.
- [42:52]
A
Retrained me not to think about it.
- [42:53]
B
Well, I was, I was gonna say something. I got the, well, I got the highest compliment from one of our customers this week that I've gotten in the five years of, of being in business. And he's a very high net worth guy. He's at our, one of our top tiers. I had not met him before this call and he said, you've given me 50 hours a week of my life back. How much value is in 50 hours of his week to him? It's priceless. I know that feeling. I've had that feeling. I've had my phone on every alert by my bed. That is no way to live and you shouldn't have to. There's literally tools that have been built to avoid all that.
- [43:36]
A
Well, Twitter's offline right now. It's down. So if it can just stay down, then I can get back at least.
- [43:48]
C
Crypto. Twitter has probably stormed the gates and found what, found the kill switch with Nikita beer and, and all the commentary over the last. Yeah, that, that, that's been an interesting story to follow as well. Oh, it's back, it's back, back up. By the way. I find it, I find it interesting. That's the best word I can put it for adults on social media who talk about their disappointment in likes or follower counts or I'm not happy with the platform because it's not giving me as much dopamine as I actually want. Somebody needs to pay for this. Like, I look at that and I think, how old are you? Don't you have anything else in life better to do than actually write this post and click send. I don't understand.
- [44:39]
A
I mean, I kind of listen. Like, I guess. I guess to some degree it's important how much engagement or hardship, little tacos you can give me or whatever. Like, I don't know, but I was.
- [44:49]
B
Back to the police officer.
- [44:52]
A
This content right now, not like this, but like, if you're tweeting a chart and you used to get tons of engagements on your chart, nobody's trading crypto. They all lost their money. And so why would the X or the listen. YouTube, they said, lowest views on crypto content since January 2021. Like, knowing that and it's a flywheel. But, like, do you think the algorithm is going to be like, you know what Joe in Nebraska, who's watching videos about re. Like. Like about, you know, refreshing his car battery, you know what he wants to see right now, what we're going to show him?
- [45:28]
C
Yeah.
- [45:30]
A
The Wolf of All Shades podcast.
- [45:32]
C
Here's the thing. Like, if you're at Lowe's since January 21, that's an opportunity too. Like, just keep doing what you're doing, and then you'll be in a better position. You know, six, 12, 18 months down the road when something happens and it comes back. I mean, you know, you should be.
- [45:48]
B
Doing everything in your life not for other people's approval, but because you're passionate about it, and you should be doing it whether no one's listening or everyone's.
- [45:57]
A
I sometimes forgot, people actually are monetizing their audience to some degree. So it's probably very disconcerting if they can't get the engagement they need. That's what I'd imagine, you know?
- [46:07]
B
Yeah, I would agree. I would. I would understand that.
- [46:11]
C
Well, what. What is sad for me is I know how badly Tillman wanted to truly become a Kol, and it's.
- [46:18]
A
That's a key opinion leader. I apparently, by the way, I have found myself to be thrown into the Kol bucket.
- [46:26]
C
It.
- [46:27]
B
You think you're one of the kings of the K, but you got this Piper Flute that. You just look at y'. All. Y' all got your black shirts on, you know, you know the recipe. Is that blue? No, it's black.
- [46:45]
C
No, his shirt is blue. He just. Blue.
- [46:49]
A
Pretty blue.
- [46:49]
B
It's black.
- [46:52]
C
I mean.
- [46:52]
A
I mean, it's. I guess everybody sees colors differently, but, like, you're broken.
- [46:59]
C
Yeah. You know, it's all politics now. We're seeing colors differently on each side of the political spectrum. Right.
- [47:07]
B
Listen, words. Do they even mean anything? Why are we Even using them anymore. We should just act on our instincts at a primal level with no communication to anyone other than ourselves. Helps.
- [47:19]
C
I mean, you're the one with the polar bear spirit back there. Okay, we want to talk about that.
- [47:24]
A
Is that.
- [47:25]
B
Is a polar bear sphere?
- [47:27]
A
Is that like from Minecraft or something? Or is that like a real.
- [47:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's a. No, it's. It's, you know, it's like a conversational piece that you hang on your wall. So people say, what is that giant spear you have? I. I've never. I've never used it, Scott, if that's what you're asking.
- [47:42]
A
Yeah, but what do you like? What. What is it? It's just a speaker spear.
- [47:45]
B
It's a spear. It's a giant metal spear that you. I guess if you were back in the day and you and your tribe were going out to kill a polar bear, that's what you armed yourself with.
- [47:59]
A
They did it different back then.
- [48:01]
C
Yeah.
- [48:04]
A
47. And from a helicopter, you know.
- [48:07]
B
Yeah, yeah. They. They didn't have those tools. Again, that's. You know, if you stifle innovation and one country created guns and no one else was allowed use them, what would happen? That's exactly what we're saying with crypto.
- [48:20]
A
That spear is symbolic of trading without arch public.
- [48:25]
C
That's right.
- [48:25]
B
That's right.
- [48:26]
C
You only get one shot, you know.
- [48:28]
A
Gotta use the new tools. Gotta use the new tools. The AK47s from the helicopters in Greenland. Or.
- [48:38]
B
Or the sound gun that makes your ears bleed and your eyes pop out of your head.
- [48:43]
A
Have you guys heard about that Stranger Things reference or is that.
- [48:46]
B
No, it's one of the tools they used when they went over. Out Madora.
- [48:49]
A
They are.
- [48:50]
B
Yeah, they. They evidently unleashed some weapon that somebody has. Is testifying from the other side that it made his ear, his nose bleed, his eyes, like he couldn't see anything. He was disoriented.
- [49:04]
C
He throwing up? Yeah, yeah.
- [49:05]
A
Started throwing up pretty tight that he's here to talk about that. Like that feels like you wouldn't be around to report the results.
- [49:18]
C
This year's bitcoin conference in some way.
- [49:21]
A
I'm going to use that. We're going to use that laser. Every time someone says Ethereum on stage, the audio laser comes on and makes her ears pop out. Taylor's getting one of those for sure. Ethereum, the fartcoin laser. Anytime somebody says anything about meme coin, by the way, I don't know if you guys saw this. I went and interviewed Eric Adams and I tried this Is so crazy, though. Like, I just don't understand this. So, a, I have to default. So Eric Adams launched a New York City token, or at least he tweeted about it, and rug pulled immediately, like $2.1 million in liquidity or something. But a, how does the mayor, who's not the mayor anymore, launch a token for New York City to help anti Semitism and anti American? Like, he's not the mayor anymore. So how was this pitch even a thing? How did they run.
- [50:12]
C
How did he fall for it? Is the reason.
- [50:14]
A
How did they run this up to 580 million? When's the last.
- [50:17]
B
Well, I tell you this. Have you guys watched some of the documentaries about how these things run? A lot of the people who are the public facing people are victims. They don't even.
- [50:28]
C
No, wait.
- [50:29]
A
It's like he. I mean, you read these. They're like, I can't believe he pulled the liquidity from the liquidity pool. I'm like, I. He does not know what a liquidity pool is.
- [50:39]
B
Yeah, it could have been a sp.
- [50:41]
A
Listen, it's happened in Mola and Melee and all those. The Gail radio the guy gets promised to tweet for, however, and then you're scamming his name. Whatever. It just like, my God. But yeah, Meme coins still. Still can run a meme coin up to 500 million. I'm gonna buy this token because it's helping the homeless of New York from a guy who has no power to help the homeless of New York anymore.
- [51:06]
B
And somehow it should tell everyone something. There is some value in these stories. And. And I use meme coin valuations all the time to illustrate something, which is valuations mean nothing. You shouldn't base your investment based upon. You shouldn't say to yourself when you're about to buy sheep, oh, this thing's bulletproof because it's got a $3 billion market cap. Those market caps literally mean nothing. In my opinion. The depth of liquidity that can drive a market cap up to 500 billion is obviously very, very small, or these projects wouldn't be reaching those heights, because the amount of money that is being injected in them in most cases is not $500 billion. Not even a billion dollars. Not even a hundred million dollars. So the question is, like, if I can take $50 million and make it look to the world like $500 billion, that attracts a lot of attention, a lot of money.
- [52:08]
A
All that. I just saw a comment, and I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not. Venezuela has the two largest operating gallium mines. Nothing else needed to know. Is gallium a real thing?
- [52:27]
C
I don't know.
- [52:29]
A
Not.
- [52:29]
B
Not where I thought you were gonna go with it.
- [52:33]
A
I just saw that and I was like, am I in black pants?
- [52:37]
B
No.
- [52:37]
A
What? What he's alluding Avatar.
- [52:40]
B
What he's referring to.
- [52:43]
C
It works all the time.
- [52:45]
B
Well, well. So I made a tweet on 2 January. Obviously you guys don't follow me.
- [52:56]
A
No, it's the algorithm. It's the algorithm.
- [53:01]
B
I'll retweet it for you guys right now just so you can see it.
- [53:05]
A
But it says it's atomic number 31. In case it's on the periodic table. In case anyone's wondering.
- [53:11]
B
Silver restrictions kicking in now more than is more of the preview 2026 real drama will be rare earths choking AI and mining growth, including galadium and in the memory tech and utridium in the semiconductor space. That is the. If you follow this, this disruptive tech called AI and blockchain. And you go to the, the, the. The pinnacle of where the pinch point is. It's real world materials. It's rare earth materials.
- [53:44]
A
I know utridium is real because I had that my sophomore year of college.
- [53:51]
C
And it wasn't an easy solve either. Yeah.
- [53:57]
B
No, you're not getting troll.
- [54:02]
A
Your urethra. Yeah, I'll never forget. Like, I know I joke. I've told the joke many times, but like I was getting my hair cut. It was peak like 21. I think it was 21. Like bull market. And my barber's cutting my hair. You know, talk to sky all the time. He's like, so what's up with, you know, erythrium? I don't know.
- [54:24]
C
What's up with yours?
- [54:27]
A
Carry them. He's like, yeah, whatever. He's like, I heard I need to buy some erythrium. And if there was ever a moment, I should have just sold everything.
- [54:40]
C
Yep, yep, yep. You learned.
- [54:44]
A
Is acting up too right now. So we probably should go. But yeah, but I mean before we do, we've got two things for you guys. Check out. We brought up their future fund. One for all of those accredited investors, AKA those who can afford to go to the dog gardens in Aspen, you can participate in future fun. One, if you're poor or the government thinks you're poor, but you're actually rich, you cannot participate. Arch public, anyone can participate in this. Even if you can't afford to bring your pit bull to the roof and Aspen to take a shit, you can participate up to $10,000 for free with these algorithms. And I've just been pounding the pavement on these, not only because I am a. I'm not only the CEO of Hair Club for Men, but I'm also a customer. I bought a whole lot of bitcoin at a really good price and Urethra and Selena as well, using this. And I love it. I love it. I'm in love with it. It. If it was a person, I would adopt it. It's amazing.
- [55:51]
C
And you're going to be at Bitcoin Investor Week with us in the February 9th through the 13th.
- [55:58]
A
Do. Can you imagine anyone there being a bitcoin investor not using this like it should? This is a Bitcoin Algorithmic Investor Week.
- [56:05]
C
Yeah.
- [56:06]
B
One step at a time. We're spreading the word.
- [56:09]
A
What does it cost to change the name of the sponsorship?
- [56:14]
C
You know, it costs a lot. Yeah, I'm sure.
- [56:18]
A
Algorithmic Investor Week. Should we do. We should do a conference.
- [56:21]
C
We should do a conference.
- [56:22]
A
Actually think about this. I'm in Tampa, obviously, and this amazing screen I have here.
- [56:27]
C
Yeah.
- [56:28]
A
Comes from. Well, between.
- [56:29]
C
Between you and Gary Cardone. We could probably pull a few.
- [56:32]
A
Yeah. So it comes from this place called View. And I knew the guys and I bought the screen. I. This, this screen actually was. Was the background for Sesame street, this actual screen, which is hilarious.
- [56:41]
B
Are you serious?
- [56:42]
A
This is the Sesame street screen. I got it for a discount when they bought a bigger screen screen. But they have their main studio here in Tampa. They have three of them now, but it's all walls of these screens, ceilings of these screens, background of these screens, and they're like jumbotron size. So, like, we did not do a conference where it's like the three of us and Sail are having the last supper. And it's like. And you can fit 500 people in the room.
- [57:08]
C
Yeah.
- [57:08]
A
Okay. So like, can you imagine like a conference in a place like that where like every panel you watched was like, I don't know, let's do it in the. Let's do it in the Mona Lisa's mouth. Yeah.
- [57:20]
B
Or we could just do it in the sphere. I mean, the sphere would do. Accomplish the same thing.
- [57:24]
C
Now.
- [57:25]
A
Now I can't. I can't. I don't have a connection there. Oh, I could do it in this studio. Now you gotta go sphere. I was like, kitchen cookie. That I thought was pretty cool.
- [57:37]
B
I didn't see the angle. Scott. Sorry, buddy.
- [57:40]
A
Next time in the sphere. Your.
- [57:42]
B
Your, yours. Your Sesame street screen's awesome, buddy. I. I Think it's amazing ways.
- [57:47]
A
You know what? Tomorrow when you're not here, I'm gonna have snuffle up guest. Yeah, that's my background. All right, guys, you can check out archpublic.com it's right there, I think. And of course, I highly recommend futurefund.archpublic.com and we got OKX coming really soon. So that's the next thing. As they make their push into the United States, we'll be collectively doing that together. And I'll be running a second portfolio there. One on Robinhood, one on OkX. I hope that I can improve my business because I'm going to run out of money super fast.
- [58:25]
B
I will. I will also reiterate that our employees love to help people. They if you never pay us a nickel and use the free product forever, feel free to still call and schedule a time to talk to us. All of our employees really are passionate about what they do and we'd love to help set up the software with you.
- [58:46]
A
I mean, I don't know what era you guys are from. I am going to stop this show soon. But I keep seeing comments that I love. And Queen who's always here, she said boofu. You guys know that reference?
- [58:58]
C
No.
- [58:58]
A
God. It's from the movie How High? With Redman and Method man. And they're all wearing the clothes and they get pulled in front of the dean and there's a little Asian guy and he's like, what are you wearing? I guess boofoo. You.
- [59:16]
B
Fubu.
- [59:17]
A
Rat bufu.
- [59:18]
C
Yeah. Was a thing for about three years.
- [59:25]
A
You know, like half baked, kind of marijuana adjacent.
- [59:30]
C
Yeah, half baked work. So they did a version of it that was a little more. Let's just call it Street.
- [59:35]
A
Yeah. All right, that's all we got for you. Check out Arch Public. Go watch How High and Sesame Street. We will see you guys soon. Thank you, guys. Bye. Everyone's looking for smarter ways to build their bitcoin stack. Well, here's one most people overlook. You can earn bitcoin every single time you spend without ever buying it directly. That's where today's video sponsor Gemini comes in. The Gemini credit card gives you instant crypto rewards on every purchase. And there's no annual free fee. It's a MasterCard World Elite, so you can use it anywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Gas, groceries, travel, all of it. Now, here's the breakdown. 4% back on gas, rides and transit, 3% on dining, 2% on groceries, and 1% on everything else. The best part, you're earning Bitcoin or one of 50 plus other cryptocurrencies automatically deposited to your Gemini account. For me, it's been a really effortless way to build exposure to Bitcoin just by spending like normal and doing the things that I do every day.
- [60:36]
B
Day.
- [60:36]
A
I've literally earned Bitcoin just from filling up my car with gas. And historically, bitcoin Rewards held for one year have appreciated 279% on average. You're not just spending, you're building a portfolio. This is the Gemini credit card. Sleek, straightforward, and one of the easiest ways to turn everyday purchases into long term value. To get started, look at the link in the Description and get $200 in Bitcoin when you spend $3,000 in your first 90 days days. Click the link in the description to apply and start earning instantly. See rates and fees in the description for more info.