The Wild Ride of Trump’s Memecoins! What’s Next? | Crypto Town Hall

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Wild Ride of Trump’s Memecoins! What’s Next? | Crypto Town Hall"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Wolf Of All Streets
• Host: Scott Melker
• Episode: The Wild Ride of Trump’s Memecoins! What’s Next? | Crypto Town Hall
• Release Date: January 20, 2025

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Introduction: Inauguration Day and Meme Coin Launch

Timestamp: [00:00] – [02:07]

Host Scott Melker opens the episode by highlighting a tumultuous weekend marked by significant events:

• Inauguration Day & Martin Luther King Day: A confluence of major national events.
• Trump’s Meme Coin Launch: Donald Trump introduced two new meme coins, coinciding with Bitcoin’s volatile performance—dropping below $100,000 before soaring to a new all-time high within the same day.

Scott remarks, “We have a few things to unpack, gentlemen. We have to start at the meme coin launch. It's the first show that we've had since it happens.”

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The Nature of Trump's Meme Coins: Grift or Genuine Crypto Advancement?

Timestamp: [02:07] – [05:17]

Panelists delve into the implications of Trump's move:

• Tom’s Analysis: He describes the rapid price surge from $1 to $30, followed by fluctuations settling around $70. Notably, 80% of the tokens are held by insiders, presumably Trump himself. Tom asserts, “this is tokenized attention... they weren't really grifting people.”

• Scott’s Inquiry: Scott challenges the definition, asking, “How about cash grab?”

• Dave’s Perspective: Dave categorizes the launch as a “cash grab,” expressing skepticism about its ethical standing but acknowledging it could boost crypto visibility.

Notable Quote:

Tom: “[...] it’s tokenized attention that we're all trying to buy a piece of Trump’s attention.” ([03:30])

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Regulatory and Legal Implications

Timestamp: [05:17] – [16:59]

The conversation shifts to the legal landscape surrounding crypto:

• Scott’s Observation: Highlights the timing—launching before an incoming SEC chair and during a regulatory vacuum. “World Liberty Fi, which is kind of the holding company, [...] DECISION to open up an additional block of 5% of token supply.”

• Carlo’s Legal Insights: Asserts that the Trump family anticipated the regulatory landscape, leveraging the power vacuum pre-inauguration. He forecasts that post-inauguration, regulatory bodies will target outright scams but won't sanction the entire meme coin phenomenon. Carlo concludes, “...we're still going to see a massive growth cycle.”

Notable Quote:

Carlo: “[...] there is nobody who can gather and leverage attention better than Trump. [...] This is the ultimate use case for the attention meme economy.” ([37:22])

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Impact on the Crypto Ecosystem and Public Perception

Timestamp: [09:19] – [25:26]

Discussion centers on how Trump’s actions influence crypto’s image and adoption:

• Scott’s Dual Perspective: Sees a “golden age of innovation” alongside a rise in “grifting and scamming.”

• Simon’s Take: Welcomes the free-market approach, emphasizing education and community vigilance against fraud. “Everyone can disagree, everyone can agree, everyone... Some get wrecked, some don't.”

• Tom and Jake: Highlight that despite potential scams, the influx of attention could onboard new users. Jake remarks, “it onboarded 400, 500,000 people into crypto by himself alone.”

• Alex’s Concerns: Warns of increased scams due to regulatory delays and the lack of structured oversight. “We are still at regulation by enforcement.”

Notable Quotes:

Simon: “...our job is to call out scams, warn people, educate people.” ([16:55])

Jake: “...the total market cap didn't increase with the same amount as we've been marking this total market cap drop.” ([33:55])

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Future Outlook: Regulation, Innovation, and Community Response

Timestamp: [25:26] – [38:35]

Panelists project future scenarios based on current developments:

• Regulatory Response: Anticipation of stricter regulations post-inauguration as new SEC and CFTC leadership takes office. Carlo suggests that while short-term chaos may ensue, long-term growth remains probable.

• Innovation vs. Ethics: The balance between fostering innovation and curbing unethical practices is a central theme. Carlo advises, “...you are really putting yourself in danger if you think that this is now an era of absolute wild west lawlessness.”

• Community Division: Alex emphasizes the risk of further partisan divides within the crypto community, potentially hindering widespread adoption. “It further drives a wedge between both sides here.”

• Potential for Growth: Despite challenges, there’s optimism about crypto’s resilience and ability to attract genuine investment, provided that the community remains vigilant against scams.

Notable Quotes:

Alex: “...the regulation by enforcement makes us look like kind of a joke when the President... uses our industry to personally enrich himself.” ([25:22])

Carlo: “...memes are the new paradigm here and we're just going to continue to see more of this.” ([37:22])

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Security Concerns and Mass Adoption Readiness

Timestamp: [38:35] – [47:49]

The panel discusses the preparedness of the crypto ecosystem for mass adoption:

• Zach’s Point on Security: Highlights the vulnerability of new users to scams and the lack of robust security measures. “Web3 is not ready for mass adoption.”

• Operational Security: Emphasizes the need for better education on operational security to protect new investors from phishing, wallet hacks, and other common scams.

• User Protection vs. Decentralization: Debates the tension between maintaining decentralized principles and implementing user protection mechanisms. Scott mentions the CFPB’s guidance suggesting potential legal repercussions for wallet providers, which could stifle innovation.

Notable Quotes:

Zach: “...these people are just going to get scammed by the next hacked Twitter account or the Google advertisement at the top of their screen.” ([47:28])

Dave: “People just get so deep into it, they're like, 'I spoke to the Prime Minister,'... you need to figure out your operational security.” ([45:30])

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Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Crypto Amidst Political and Economic Shifts

Timestamp: [47:49] – [38:51]

In closing, the panel reflects on the broader implications of Trump’s meme coin launches:

• Regulatory Landscape: Anticipates a shift towards more structured regulations once the new administration settles in, aiming to tackle scams while fostering legitimate growth.

• Community Responsibility: Stresses the importance of the crypto community’s role in educating new users and maintaining ethical standards to sustain the industry's progress.

• Optimism for Growth: While acknowledging challenges, there is a hopeful outlook that the crypto sector will continue to innovate and expand, leveraging both technological advancements and increased public interest.

Notable Quotes:

Scott: “...we can get a responsible SEC that isn't overbearing and over regulating, but can provide like a roadmap.” ([61:05])

Carlo: “...meme coins are driven by an attention economy and there is nobody who can gather and leverage attention better than Trump.” ([63:03])

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Final Thoughts:

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the intersection between politics and cryptocurrency, using Trump's meme coin launches as a case study. The panelists offer diverse perspectives on the potential benefits and pitfalls, emphasizing the need for regulatory clarity, community education, and robust security measures to navigate the evolving landscape of crypto.

Disclaimer: This summary excludes sponsorship segments and non-content discussions as per the podcast guidelines.

Transcript

[Scott]

What a weekend. Monday morning, January 20th, Inauguration Day, Martin Luther King Day. Trump launched two meme coins this weekend. Day Bitcoin down below 100,000 and then back to a new all time high day. I think we have a few things to unpack, gentlemen. We have to start at the meme coin launch. It's the first show that we've had since it happens.

[Alex]

Scott, I didn't see you post anything or have any commentary on it whatsoever.

[Scott]

I would just say, Alex, that some people actually possess testicles and are willing to utilize them and say what they think on social media regardless of the hyper emotions of the community. And I am one of those people who is always going to say what I think regardless of, of the situation and the optics and how it's likely to affect me on a day to day basis. I've been re reassessed by the physician community on X as having a severe case of TBS for saying that Trump and Melania were gratuitous Griffs, bad optics. But I've also pointed out, as you know, listen, Ryan Selkis is one of the biggest Trumpers in the world. He wrote a post that said, hey, listen, like fire whoever did Melania, it's terrible optics. They don't have your best interest at heart to Trump. Like, you know, I deeply, I said this, I deeply love my children, but they piss me off all the time. You can deeply love your president and say that something they do is wrong. Everything they do doesn't have to be right. In my opinion. This will probably be very good for crypto. I mean it's very clear the governor is off. You could do whatever you want in the United States in crypto for the next four years. This will probably bring a whole bunch of new money into the space. As for like the morality or ethics of it, I mean, we can discuss it. I think everybody knows where, where I stand, you know, and you guys can feel free to jump in. Anybody who wants to give a memory of what happened, feel free. Like, go ahead. Yeah, Tom, go ahead.

[Tom]

So, I mean the brief summary is Trump launched a meme coin listing the contract address across both his true social and Twitter accounts. People didn't know if it was real for a little while. You know, folks checked the, the websites, they checked a few of the particulars that escaped me and, and seemed to think it was real. The price went quickly from, you know, 1, 2, 3, $4 all the way up to 30 overnight and then subsequently had a, a brief sell off the 20 before moving to 70. All of this 80% of this is held by insiders, which is presumed to be Trump. He effectively moved his net worth from what was 6 billion to, on paper, 60. Obviously, you can't sell all those tokens, but on paper, you know, he. His entities control them. So the broader point is like, okay, is this good for crypto because the President is launching a meme coin, or is this bad for crypto because it seems like somewhat of a grifty thing to do? And then there was the subsequent Melania launch yesterday. That sort of lean into this, and you just might as well start looking at the Trump family tree right now and picking out other names who are gonna start launching meme coins over the next few months, weeks, whatever. In terms of whether this is grifty, you know, my, My opinion is like, this is very eyes wide open. Like, exactly. Like, he wasn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes on what this is. Like, he explicitly said it's a meme coin. It's, you know, it's. It's basically like tokenized attention that we're all, you know, trying to. To buy a piece of Trump's attention. Everyone's thinking, hey, this thing's gonna go up. That's why I'm buying it. Not because I'm expecting a cash flow or a real world return, whatever. Like, I think this is pretty eyes wide open, what everyone bought this thing for. You weren't really, you know, grifting people. Now, whether it's. It showcases that to the rest of the world that, you know, crypto is not a serious industry, I think that's like, a very valid point. But in terms of whether this was like, a big grift on everyone, I guess I'm not, I'm not in that camp.

[Scott]

I think it depends on how you define grift. How about cash grab? Yeah.

[Dave]

Like, I don't think it's not good.

[Scott]

Right?

[Dave]

Like, so. Well, here's how I see it. There's two ways to onboard a lot of people to crypto, and one of them is by helping them make money and see the free, the beauty of freedom to transact. And the other one is by, like, doing something kind of useless and slimy and then, you know, trying to pump value into it. Unfortunately, this is the second one, but it also will bring a lot of eyes. And, you know, I think what's interesting is I think the only way you can really pump this now is by going out and talking about great American made crypto, and maybe he can talk about Solana I don't think he's going to go, say, buy Trump coin. So I think he. I think it means he's going to be, you know, chilling our bags. Like, I don't want to be too pedantic about the nuances of the ethics of all this because it doesn't feel like the greatest thing, but I think they're probably going to throw it into a defi system and their world liberty, and it's not going to taste that bad in our mouths at the end of the day. And it is just ultimately pro crypto.

[Scott]

I mean, they really threaded the needle here from a regulatory and ethical and legal perspective some degree.

[Alex]

Right.

[Scott]

You had Garrett Gendler out last week. You don't have an SEC chair yet. The inauguration is today. We all know that the Constitution states that the president and this up for debate as to whether it is. But, you know, it's not allowed to abuse or utilize the power of the presidency to personally enrich themselves financially. That's in the Constitution of the United States, not my words. So they got two of these in before that happened. Right? And I think, interestingly, I don't know if you guys saw today, but there was a piece of news, and I don't want to misquote it, but it kind of came across the tape when I was actually on my show this morning. World Liberty Fi, which is kind of the holding company, you know, the team that's behind all of this, we've completed our mission and sold 20% of our token supply. Due to massive demand and overwhelming interest, we've decided to open up an additional block of 5% of token supply. Please be patient while our team works to relaunch the sale. We'll share updates here as soon as we're live again. So just, I mean, am I missing something? That they're just changing the vesting schedule because there's an opportunity to sell more tokens? Because this was like, these are, you know, that. And that's fine if that's what we accepted as. But isn't that what's happening here? Carlo, you're a lawyer. I mean, those 5%.

[Carlo]

What a day to be a lawyer. First of all, I got to warn you, Scott, Emily is in the house, so you better behave.

[Scott]

Now, that's not going to change much for me. Sorry.

[Carlo]

I agree you put out one of the best comments over the weekend that this is probably a net positive for crypto, but definitely questions the future of humanity. Look, I'm going to give you a hot take. I just, I just posted it, and I'm just going to kind of reiterate it. What did we all think was going to happen? I mean, for years this space has been clamoring for reregulation of crypto and for confirmation that digital assets are not securities. Well, here we go. Right now we are in a complete power vacuum when it comes to how these assets are going to be regulated. And it is absolutely, in my estimation as a strategist, as a lawyer in this space, totally predictable that the Trump family would seize on this opportunity before the inauguration and before an incoming SEC chair to launch these things. I don't know what the end game is here. I'm not even going to pretend to speculate, Tom. I don't know what they're going to do with all this liquidity that just got drained out of the sector. But I also know that a lot of the, and I, I this is the hot take, Scott. I think a lot of the pearl clutching and I think a lot of the engagement posts that have been going on with the outrage about all this are going to very quickly subside and degens will go back to trading these things and people are going to do very dumb shit in the midst of this power vacuum. When we get back to the work of running the country, when we have a new CFTC and a new SEC chair, I think they're going to get to the work of prosecuting outright scam. So I don't think this is in any way a green light to just complete commit criminal debauchery as many people are speculating. I just think people are seizing on what is a period of complete uncertainty. But when we get back to the work of doing and building in this sector, I think we're still going to see a massive growth cycle. Is this a net bad for humanity? I don't know. I'm certainly clutching my popcorn and watching this unfold. But I think we're going to probably see all this stuff go exponentially higher after all the outrage subsides. If I'm wrong about that, history will, will judge me. But that's my take.

[Scott]

Yeah, I mean, like I said, the governor is off. I mean, everybody should be able to do everything. And I think that that will give us a golden age of innovation and crypto in the United States and also a golden age of grifting and scamming in crypto in the United States. And those two things are likely to come hand in hand. And a lot of people, I think now, I mean, Tom, Tom, was you at the beginning kind of like they had the disclosures here.

[Buzz]

Right.

[Scott]

Like it's a meme coin. Don't buy it for financial gain, Whatever. And Dave Weisberger pointed out this morning on my YouTube channel, he said Atkins and Purse, like these are disclosure regulators. Right. As long as you make your disclosure, it's up to the public to decide what they want to do to give the proper disclosures. So I mean, does it mean everybody can just launch a meme coin snipe, you know, 80% of the 10% that's launched, keep 80% and then say, listen, this isn't for financial gain while making money.

[Tom]

So. But I think the important. Yeah, sorry, an important point here is he listed the contract address. You had to figure out and know exactly what the contract address was. I mean, you could buy. Yeah, a little bit on your credit card or whatever, but this wasn't listed on major exchanges yet. You had to be.

[Scott]

This is crypto natives.

[Tom]

Exactly. So like if a crypto native sees this and they look at the, you know, 80% was held by Trump and they still decided to buy it. Like there was, you know, I'm sure there's going to be others that don't have deep disclosures. Whatever, whatever. But you know, for this one, I think generally like everyone knew what they were.

[Scott]

Anyone who's here knows exactly how this works. It just speaks to the fact, like, should the President be taking advantage of exactly how this works? And that's up to each person to decide for themselves.

[Simon]

Simon, Go ahead, everybody.

[Carlo]

Yeah.

[Simon]

What a wild weekend. So what do I say? Look, just welcome to the Trump administration. Expect more. This is exactly what is going to be happened. It is a free market and it is a deregulated market. Our job is to call out scams, warn people, educate people. And that's what we've always done in the, in the crypto market. Everyone can disagree, everyone can agree, everyone. Some get wrecked, some don't. If somebody commits fraud, then you have fraud laws and you have recourse and you have community shaming. But if you want the regulator to protect you from the fact that the economics on this token suck, then now is the time to work with the Trump administration in order to determine how much you want the government to look after you. Because what most people want is they want the ability to invest in anything and when it goes wrong, they want the regulator to find a way for a refund. And that's what brings us to things like accredited investor rules, where people say, well, you want a one way bet, which is not how Markets work. So, look, here's the reality. What has Trump done? Trump has tried everything in crypto. Now, he started with NFTs, made a bunch of money with that. He then did an ICO dressed up as a governance token for World Liberty Financial. He's now doing a stablecoin and a DeFi platform. And now he's got. This is just a meme. There is no value and it's a reflection of your desire to have a collectible. And guess what? I'll do one for my wife as well.

[Scott]

So, no, not a single person bought it for that reason, though. I mean, if we're being intellectually honest, nobody bought it because they wanted to support the presidency and like, like own a collectible. Of course, maybe the NFTs.

[Simon]

Of course. So, so now Trump has said, look, here's how I do things. I'm going to use my presidency to make as much money as possible. I'm going to invite anyone that wants to come along and join me. I'm going to make an environment where now, if the SEC wants to come after meme coins, stable coins, DeFi NFTs, and, and, and anything else, then they're going to have to come after me, too. So I'm gonna set the parameters for what, how this is all done and we'll, we'll see how it all. We'll see how it all works out. And yes, I'm gonna make a ton of money. And if anyone wants to join me or get scammed by me, then call me out. I don't give a. We're moving forward. America is going to be a part of crypto. We're going to have. Then I ask the question, well, what do I care about? Well, is this more likely that we're going to have a Bitcoin strategic reserve? Is this more likely we're going to have things that might be able to take on the Federal Reserve? And no, I'm not saying that Trump coin or a meme coin, because the wild thoughts of everyone this weekend that Trump is about to do 5D chess, take down the banking system with a meme coin and pay off the national debt. The imagination was completely wild over the weekend with the MAGA crew, but this is welcome to the Trump administration. And this is as far away from what we had under the Biden administration. And it is a free market. It's buyer beware. Will I be buying Trump coin? Absolutely not. I think the economics suck. I think it's a money grab and I think he just made a massive amount in Net worth. But don't complain about it. Just decide what you're going to do and join the free market.

[Scott]

Alex. And then Buzz. I saw you had your hand up before.

[D.B.]

Alex.

[Tom]

Buzz.

[Buzz]

Yeah. I was just going to ask Carlo if what Trump just did from a legal perspective, did he just put a playbook out there that people can now follow to launch meme coins with the same disclosures, with the same vesting periods, with the same distribution of tokens? I mean, as builders in the space, we've been trying to use examples at least to follow in the past. Is this the example that everyone's been looking for?

[Simon]

Yeah, that's his next business. It's a white label platform where you can copy and paste.

[Carlo]

I don't think so, because I don't think the average builder in this space has the unfettered freedom and cover of the presidency to do things in this fashion. I'm not saying because again, I think it is still early. I've got to be a lawyer and I've got to look at it from both sides and I've got to wait and see and look at all the evidence. However, I think if you are a builder in this space, I think you now have assurances that it is safe to come back and it is safe to execute. But you're not, in my opinion, relieved from your ethical duties to the people who buy and from your obligations to not engage in fraud. So if you look at this as a green light that you can launch any shitcoin, make any amount of promises, pump it through celebrities, do all the stuff that's been targeted in the past and think you're going to get a green light this cycle. I don't think so. Because I think at the end of the day, serious people are being put in charge of these agencies, respected people, they just happen to be people who believe in the future of this tech and they come from this sector. But I don't think that these people are going to tolerate absolute lawlessness. I think that is a bridge too far in my opinion. But again, in this period of uncertainty as we transition from a over regulated, regulated by enforcement crypto sector to now, all the fetters have been taken off and the, the horse is leaving the barn. We're going to see a lot of dumb. Alex.

[Alex]

Yeah, so I think the issue is like, I think Carlo, what you're saying sounds great in an idealistic world, but the thing is we are still, until there's like a market structure bill, and an actual regulatory setup, we are in a place where we're still at regulation by enforcement. And my concern over something like this is twofold. Number one, it's further partisanizes the crypto industry and makes us look like kind of a joke when the President, and I'm sick of people being like, he's not the President yet, he's the President Elect, he's the fucking President, come on. He's taking advantage of like that platform and our industry to personally enrich himself, which like, sure isn't illegal, but it makes us look bad. It further drives a wedge between both sides here. And if we want this technology to actually spread and be adopted, we need that to not happen. But it is also going to lead to a wave of really scammy crap happening. Because even if you have very serious enforcement, reasonable enforcement minded people at the sec, at the cftc, bringing these kinds of cases takes at least a couple of years. And we know that because you can just look back to how long it took them to bring cases, you know, from the 2017 to 2019, even under the last Trump admin on it. So like, even if it is not outright that like outright fraud is now legal, which it certainly of course isn't, you are going to likely have a ton of just absolutely wild scammy stuff of people thinking that they can do it because they're going to look over and see that they think there's this precedent that's been set. And also just that there's a lot of money willing to chase after and get put into anything that comes out.

[Scott]

Carlo?

[Carlo]

Yeah, I can't disagree, Alex. That, that's my concern and that's why I put in my lengthy post this morning. Don't do dumb shit. There are going to be plenty of opportunities to make a lot of money in this sector legitimately. And you are really putting yourself in danger if you think that this is now an era of absolute wild west lawlessness. And I agree with you. And I was actually on Mario space the night that this thing went live. Look, full disclosure, I bought it. I mean, I'm a trader. You know, I look at an opportunity, I see it and I bought it and I covered it all night. I was in that space till three in the morning and I. One of the first thoughts that came to mind was this was brilliantly played because it was in the vacuum between him taking office so he doesn't have the legal burdens of being president. Secondly, I was opining as to whether Elizabeth Warren's head was about to explode. So yes, there is going to be a clamoring in the halls of the legislative bodies for investigative panels, for hearings. And on the other side of that, because the majority is pro crypto right now, we're going to see massive re regulation of the space. But that doesn't mean deregulation. The rules are still going to apply. And yes, Alex, you're right, a lot of people are going to do a lot of dumb and a lot of consumers are going to be taken by that dumb. And you know, that is really the challenge of a nascent technology. We either have regulators completely clamped down and nobody can invest in anything unless they're a certified and verified investor under Reg. D or we have this extreme. So somewhere in the middle, we have to find a compromise. And unfortunately, we're not there yet. The bills haven't been passed. So. So people are going to take advantage of.

[Scott]

I mean, Carlo, people are going to say, the President did it, I can do it.

[Carlo]

Yeah, but that doesn't. That doesn't.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Carlo]

Come into my office and tell me that, you know, I defend criminal cases and I've been doing it for 30 years. And if your defense is going to be that, you're going to stand up and point at somebody else and say, well, they did it, so I should be able to get away with it, that it's not going to fly because no one enjoys the privileges that he does. And we.

[Scott]

So do you think this was. So do you think if this was you doing it, that it would have been legal?

[Carlo]

First of all, I would never do it because I would. I would. I know too much about the.

[Scott]

Okay, excuse me. If this was another American person with a significant following you like, and they launched this in this exact structure, do you think that right now without law changes, that this would be legal?

[Carlo]

You know what? I can't answer that just yet because, yes, there's a lot of funky going on on the blockchain.

[Scott]

That's the beauty of it.

[Carlo]

There's a lot of funky going on right now on the blockchain with these tokens. We don't know what these unlocks are going to look like. We don't know who's holding. We are seeing some really interesting movements. We saw a massive acquisition of ETH out of this token. I don't know what the end game here is. So it's for me, because I believe obviously in the presumption of innocence. And I'm not going to just say that this is an outright scam, but I understand people's concerns and I understand the red flags that we're Seeing, but I don't know what the end game is. I'm puzzled. Is it possible that this is a massive grift? Of course it's possible. This is a massive grift. All indications are that it possibly is a massive grift.

[Simon]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[Dave]

Sorry. No, you go, go ahead.

[Scott]

Just go ahead. Lawyered and then. Yeah, just. Okay, go ahead, Go ahead.

[Alex]

Oh, I think there's a difference between.

[Dave]

Griffin and making a joke. Go for it.

[Alex]

Sorry. I would say there's a difference between a.

[Scott]

Stop making joke.

[Alex]

Right. I don't think this is a scam in the sense that, like, it is him offering it. I don't think they're going to like get rid of it tomorrow. But a grift is different, right? Grift is, is relying on, you know, the power of the office to enrich himself in a way. Like, I mean, it's Donald Trump. He wants to be really, really rich. Like, that's what he's going for. And on one hand, I don't fault him for that. Who doesn't want to? Like, if I could sell $70 billion worth of tokens to people and have that, I probably would want to do that too. So, like, sure, I think the, the interesting dynamic and I think I kind of wish, you know, like one of the BA guys were up here because I'd love to get their take on this too. Is comes down to what this means on the regulatory side because, you know, when it comes down to Trump doing this, the meme coins have been legal, right? They've been the only thing that's been legal for the last few years because of this SEC stance and larger projects and things and utility and people actually being able to set up here is not going to be super viable until we get a market structure bill. And so Trump's actually threading this really narrow line where he can do whatever the hell he wants because the Republicans have a three seat majority in the House and a six seat majority in the Senate. And so he can't get impeached. Right? There's, there's no trouble that he can get in from government, so he can kind of go and do whatever he wants regardless of whatever constitutional violation there is. And I'm not saying there is one here, but I'm saying he can do whatever he wants because he's not going to get in trouble. But the more that he makes this look like a joke house or whatever, the less likely it is that we actually get a regulatory bill. Because if all the Dems line up against it, because they're just seeing this as an industry that Trump's using to enrich himself. They can basically. They can't impeach him, but they can block us from actually getting the progress that we want at the legislative level that we need. And then you have blue state ags and blue states who will go after the bad actors in the space, because there's no federal preemption on securities law around this kind of thing or on fraud statutes. And so, like, that's where I come down to on the worry is, do we end up in this really bad place where it ends up killing our ability to get the actual structure and regulation that we want while still letting, like, the worst actors off the hooks because there's not sufficient resources to go after them?

[Simon]

And you don't think they'll all just grift. You don't think they'll all just grift and copy and there'll be a flurry of these, and everyone's gonna say, hey, let's join the party. You think there's something.

[Alex]

I think that's exactly what may happen. Yeah.

[D.B.]

Yeah.

[Simon]

So they'll all be.

[Scott]

My concern that I kind of. Yeah, Simon. I mean, my concern that I was expressing last week, but for. For the last few months was we have this interesting scenario where now we've gotten everything we want. Right. Whether I. I assume we'll get some sort of legislative and regulatory. Regulatory clarity, but we certainly have the sentiment that it's all systems go in the United States. It's sort of a similar phenomenon to when one party controls everything and how easy it is to scream from the sidelines about how bad things are. But then once you get control, it's very, very difficult to govern. Well, now the crypto industry has control, and I think we're in a situation where we have to prove the worth of the technology and the industry as a whole, because this is our chance. Who knows what will happen in two years? Who knows what will happen in four years as things change? And this isn't, to me, the ideal start for our industry being taken seriously in the United States and showing its worth. But it's the very, very early days. I also think to that end, there's a major fear, and this is something we've discussed here before, that our lobby in the government came together to defeat a common enemy in Biden and Gensler and Warren, who obviously didn't lose herself, but has lost her power to some degree. And now that they're all here, I think we're going to see very fragmented lobbying and very mixed interests from that side as well, where maybe we're not cohesive. And Coinbase's interests might not be the same as Ripple's, might not be the same as a heavy bitcoin lobby. So it's an interesting time that the industry has to prove itself. Lawyer, go ahead.

[Dave]

Yeah, like, so it's, it, maybe it's not ideal for some people to be on ramped in that way, but I think it's really hard to not just look at this and say, at least we know it's better than the anti crypto army. Like people will learn, people will lose money on this and other things and they'll learn to find the better things. And it's so much opportunity for good projects to show what they can do and how they can actually change, you know, the rails that we use. No matter what happens, it's. This is better than the anti crypto army, I think.

[Scott]

I mean this is, nobody's disputing this is good that this is in any way not the best case scenario for crypto in the United States, regardless of, of any of it. Go ahead, Tom.

[Tom]

Yeah, money drives attention. So you, you could bet that all those people who saw this token go up and say, wow, I wasn't able to buy this thing like, because I didn't understand it, like, let me figure out how to do this for the next time. Or like, oh my goodness, like Melania just launched and now it's fucking $10 billion. Like I, I don't know, you guys. I have friends texting me, asking can I buy it on Coinbase? Where is this? Which contributes a bit to the, to the grift and the investor protections we need, but it does onboard a ton of people to say like, oh my God, I need to figure out how to use this stuff because I just missed out on a ton of potential money. I don't think people immediately look through to say like, wow, I would have lost money. They just look at and say like, wow, I could have made a lot of money. Like, let me figure out how to use this crypto stuff.

[Zach]

So real quick, a couple. And I don't think you're able to see my hand, Scott. No big deal. But interesting point by Tom there. And I want to kind of.

[Scott]

I don't know who's talking.

[Zach]

Oh, D.B. sorry. Yeah, you said.

[Scott]

What happened?

[Zach]

You gotta love Twitter spaces. Yeah, they, they mess up all the time. But yeah, the interesting part about the adoption is I see the, the opposite side of it. And I had people reaching out to me that are they have no interest in ever returning because of stuff like this or my father in law, no matter what I say to him, cannot convince him that this magical Internet money is legit and it's going to have a future. He sees something like this yesterday and he uses it as further evidence that the entire thing is just a giant scam. So yeah, while some people see it about money making and coming in, I see the other side because I have so many people in my life that have been burned by stuff like this and have no interest in ever coming back. And to Carlo's point, it was really interesting to hear Carlo's thoughts on this because the biggest question I had was what's going to, what's this going to open up for? And is there's going to be so many people thinking is everything on the table at this point? Can I just do whatever the hell I want? And I think we're going to see a lot of it and it's going to be an interesting couple weeks or months. And I definitely lean more towards the, the net negative side of the entire experience just because of the, that I know it's the whole double edged sword of any publicity is good publicity but seeing the way retail is going to act to some of this stuff, especially those that are going to get wrecked by it is it could set the entire thing back. So I'm torn. But I definitely lean towards the whole net negative at least on the short term for sure.

[Jake]

Guys, you hear me?

[Tom]

Let's be real though. We need marginal net new buyers and your father in law is not going to be a marginal net new buyer of anything but maybe Bitcoin if you can convince him. Right. If you want people to move into all coins and stuff like this, you need to give them the opportunity to make money. And those are the fast movers, the slow movers like your father in law and my father in law. Hey, they're going to buy these things on Coinbase a year from now when and if they've proven themselves.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Everything else.

[Jake]

Hey guys, can you hear me? Scott, I've been trying to fix this thing here.

[Scott]

Yes, I can hear you now. There's so many.

[D.B.]

Oh my God.

[Scott]

Yeah, thank you. Interrupting.

[Jake]

Yeah, I don't know, I was like on and off. Anyway. Yes, I just wanted to, I don't want to steer the conversation here but I really wanted to reflect on the, on the grifting part. And a lot of people say this, that it's been grifted and all that. But if you look at this, this is a token with a billion dollars in liquidity, like grifting or not. There has been plenty of opportunities to buy and sell this token. Whoever wanted. I do believe it's a free market. It's not like he sold. Also, people said that 80% of the token has been sniped, and that's true. But it supposedly is locked. And if he promises that it is locked based on the token distribution, which bubble map shows exactly what is being told to us, like, that would be a crime if he would not follow what he promised. So I do think that that's not like he sniped up and then he dumped on his own people. I do believe that this is, so to say, a fair lunch. He published it on his own. I was actually. I completely right curved the whole Trump coin thing because I didn't believe it was real. I even tweeted about it. Nobody retweeted from his circle. Nobody. There was no retreat from Worldly body finance. There was no retreat from Eric, from anybody, basically. But it was a fair launch. You could have bought it. People I know bought it at like 250 and 300 million and wrote it all the way up to like 20 billion. It was a complete fair launch. The token distribution matches, as you see on chain matches, with what they promised. So there. It's not like they launched it and they rocked their own community. So I don't think that we can talk about when it comes to this.

[Scott]

Perhaps we even said this before. Perhaps it's the wrong word or a misdefinition cash grab, I think is my more appropriate term for it.

[Jake]

Yeah, but Scott, you know.

[D.B.]

Exactly.

[Jake]

We are living in an attention economy and he is the attention. Whatever he does. I do think if you look at it short term, he onboarded 400, 400, 500,000 people into crypto by himself alone, breaking all records. Solana 24 hour volume amount metric.

[Scott]

Moonshot.

[Simon]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Based on moonshot.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Scott]

See, I would argue that most of those people are not new, but I mean, we can debate why would they buy a moonshot how much they represent a person. Because it was quicker and faster and there are so many people. I know. Listen, I saw this on my phone. I have good opsec and I cannot participate in crypto on my phone. Obviously. Like, maybe some people, like, have the ability to access their wallets on phones. I don't. But I know a lot of people who said, listen, are like me and just went to moonshot because it. It was the quickest way to get access. And those are people who are deeply crypto native.

[Jake]

Yeah, but okay, fair, fair point, fair point. We can't deny though, the volume that it was generating. Solana broke 11 billion, 10% of NASDAQ volume. It's insane. And it's all because of Trump and sucking the liquidity out of all the tokens. The only reason why I do believe that you could have a point there actually is because, you see, the total market cap didn't increase with the same.

[Scott]

Amount as we've been marking this total market cap drop.

[Jake]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott]

Just a black hole. It was a black hole from every other altcoin. I mean, it went up and everything else went down 20%. Yes. The rotation of the washing machine. This is the same. And I'm not saying it won't onboard a lot of people. Today is Monday, it's inauguration. I believe a lot of people are going to want this token. I have heard anecdotally of people saying, hey, like calling their crypto friend and saying, hey, how do I get this Trump token? It's definitely out there. I do think it's going to onboard a lot of people. But I think those first, you know, hours or days was that was the crypto casino being as wide open as it's ever been and everybody fomoing into this and out of other things. Now, whatever will happen, that's what the evidence.

[Jake]

I think the biggest problem is that they launched Melania. That's the biggest problem. Like I think Trump and itself, it was. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that's a big mistake. And I'm just hoping, and I know it's just hoping because the likelihood of it is very small, that they give some kind of integration and utility into somehow something. Because if they would do this, this would not go to complete zero.

[Scott]

Then it's a security. So they may do that. But then that, that's, that's where, that's where they'll actually need some regulatory or legislative clarity first.

[D.B.]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jake]

But if they do that and you're no longer.

[Scott]

Their disclosure is no longer valid. Saying, this is a fun, like collectible.

[D.B.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott]

So, yeah, that's, I think that's, you know, Carlo, you're the lawyer. You can unpack this. Lawyer, Carlo, you two next. You know, but, but like Carlo, that's where it becomes a problem. Right. Start adding utility. Oh, and by the way, you said fefe, you know, if they stick to their release schedule. I just pointed out it was announced on World Liberty Financial and I Don't know legally what this means, but they decided to release 5% more supply. That was on the schedule.

[Jake]

Yeah, but that's, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not the Trump meme. But I see what you're saying.

[Carlo]

I think, Scott, it all depends on where the regulatory pendulum swings as to what is defined as an investment contract. Whether the Howey test is going to continue to be the standard for evaluating whether a digital asset is a security or not. All of that is still up in play. But one thing that I'd like to zoom out and talk about, which was amazing and stunning to witness, is meme coins are driven by an attention economy and there is nobody who can gather and leverage attention better than Trump. And what we witnessed happen with the launch of this token was an absolute masterclass in how to leverage the attention economy. I don't think we will ever see Tom, anything like this. Watching that chart and covering it overnight was like watching a Category 5 storm come on shore. It was incredible to see the momentum, the amount of users, the amount of wallets. And it just illustrates that this is probably the ultimate use case for the attention meme economy. And it's a powerful economy that can be used for good or can be used for grift. It really depends on the intention of and the motivation of the founders. But there's no denying that this is the new paradigm here and we're just going to continue to see more of this.

[Scott]

Yeah, I mean it was already on the line to face point before, you know, when they launched Trump. The Melania thing. I don't think anyone is. I'm curious what people think about this as a potential avenue for like foreign influence. I think that is a lot of the narrative we're going to see from the left that like foreign countries are going to buy this. It becomes like an emoluments clause problem. Like this is just like a very direct line for corruption that's maybe harder to block off. Yeah, Zach, listen, I brought up the emoluments clause earlier, that perhaps that's why he launched it before the inauguration. Obviously, as a sitting president is not allowed to, you know, enrich themselves financially through these means. But are you saying. But the, the enrichment he has to be selling down. The argument is that the would be later when he's selling. When he's selling or when, you know, if like Saudi Arabia decides to do a strategic Trump coin reserve, right. And they take a big position and they, they boost the market cap, like that is the type of thing that you could say, okay, that is the emolument in question. And I'm not a sort of legal scholar on this issue.

[Alex]

What if.

[Simon]

And does it change?

[Alex]

What if they do the same thing with, with djt? Should we be concerned if they do the same thing with dj?

[Scott]

I mean, I think the deal, if the people who are critical of Trump in this way say that, yes, him not divesting himself from these like very easy avenues to enrich him creates a conflict of interest problem that might be illegal because of the clause. Right.

[Alex]

So we don't know where the funds will go.

[Jake]

That's the thing, we don't know where.

[Alex]

The funds will go over the weekend. It, this is, this is a pattern over the last four years. Remember four years ago, Trump was essentially sent to the dark web. He was removed from everything, everywhere. Had to create his own social media company to be, even to get to people. And then he created a SPAC that SPAC merged with another SPAC that created djt ultimately. And so the question is, was that a grift? Was that a problem? Was that illegal? Was that fraud? It's interesting that regulators across both traditional finance and quote unquote crypto regulations, they've already blessed the gamification of markets. I don't know if people know this, but the top ETF of 2024 was the 2x levered Nvidia ETF. I don't know if you guys are aware of the comings and goings of 2x levered Nvidia ETFs, but it's quite volatile. I'd say it's near Vol. Volatility weapon options. So it's interesting that Meme Coins, nobody's been taken to task legally associated with Meme Coins. They've effectively effectively been blessed as legal by even the previous regulatory regime. So it's an interesting case study in where markets are going over the next four years and then into the future that there's absolutely a gamification. And remember this gamification didn't start this weekend. It didn't start over the last three or four years. It started with Renaissance technology about 40 years ago. That firm, which is the original high frequency trading firm, don't care in any way, shape or form about the real world value of the underlying stocks that they engage in. It's simply the gamification of grabbing small parts of performance in any position that they take for 1 second, 2 second, 5 seconds. Virtu Financial, Citadel Securities. All of the realities associated with the gamification of any market has existed in traditional markets now for decades. We're just seeing it now here in our little piece of the world, and everybody has a reaction to it. So I found this weekend quite compelling.

[Dave]

Yeah. I actually had another thought. Are we so sure that Melania's, like. It felt a little bit more haphazard. The bubble maps didn't line up as far as I'm concerned, as far as I know. Like, there's a lot of stuff that made me feel that maybe, like, her team, she was like, hey, I want one, too. And then her team's like, yeah, we're gonna do it. And then Trump's like, better do it before tomorrow. And then there it totally, like, vamped all of the liquidity out of the other token. I don't think it was a net benefit for them, so I do. We do. People on the panel think that this.

[Scott]

Is, like, a net loss of market cap. It was a net loss of market cap collectively. And, of course, they lost more at that time on Trump than they added on Melania. So either way, it was a failed experiment at that time.

[Dave]

It doesn't seem like I have to.

[Scott]

Imagine nobody called Trump about any of this. Like, my feeling, and maybe I'm wrong, is that, like, he has his team, it's his sons and Chase and these guys, and he's basically said, listen, like, use my likeness. As, you know, listen. He's a marketing genius. He puts his name on brands like tweet, do whatever you want, and tweet from my account. I trust you.

[D.B.]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So that team Melania was probably just them getting exceptionally greedy and making a bad decision. I doubt they called and said, can we launch Melania Token? As he's like, literally getting ready to be inaugurated.

[Dave]

So what I'm wondering is it is the same team or is it her team that found guys to launch a token? And they're like, fine, you can do it, because Trump will let you do what you. Whatever you want. But it was about, like. What I'm wondering is, it was the plan. It seems like this was in motion for a while.

[Buzz]

It was a different team. It was a different team. We. We confirmed yesterday on a Mario Spaces, and people were actually looking into the domain registration for the website as well. The domain was registered two days before the Melania Token launch, and it was a different team that did it. So a lot of people were talking and concluding. Right. That this was very reactionary, just about the success of Trump Coin.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dave]

So if it was a different team, then the. The next question is, was it planned in advance as like to go with the Trump coin. And I agree with you. I think probably not on the looks of it.

[Zach]

DB so one thing that hasn't really been brought up here and it's rarely discussed is the security. And so let's say 500,000 brand new people did get onboarded this weekend. What's going to be the impact of having 500,000 brand new people in the space that whose primary goal is to find the next 10,000x and jump on it as soon as they think they found it? I hate to say it, web3 is not ready for mass adoption. The security is lacking when it comes to wallets, token structures, everything. These people are just going to get scammed by the next hacked Twitter account or the Google advertisement at the top of their screen that's talking about the next big mean token. That's the issue I see with all this and that's why I have people that aren't interested in coming back too because of the security in the space. Smart contract based assets ERC disaster.

[Scott]

I don't know how we solve for that. Yeah, I don't know how we solve for that in the short term.

[Zach]

Yeah. And that's the issue I see in the, the mid to long term. These people that are probably going to get wrecked in the next month or two because scammers are going to have a field day with these new people and it's just going to set everything back.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think, I think the SEC has always created this false sense of security. You know some of the biggest mistakes people could have made as an investor is were blessed by the sec. So someone really should come out with authority or so that people listen to and be like look this is fun but just keep in mind the big difference here is no one's pretending to protect you so you better do your due diligence and figure out OPSEC and all that.

[Scott]

The SEC's job isn't to decide what's a good or bad, that's the disclosure. Their job is to make sure people do the proper disclosures and then don't lie in those disclosures. Like that is the role of the SEC in protecting the consumer. It's not to say that's what I mean.

[Dave]

Things like Enron. No, no, I mean things like Enron have gone wrong and things like FTX.

[Scott]

And those are both cases where people lie in their terms of, you know, the security after.

[Dave]

Yeah, well what I say it was a false sense of security that they were blessed by the sec. I mean that's I think that's a fact. Whether or not that's how it should be is, is, you know, I agree with you, that is because of fraud. But what people need to realize is that you don't need fraud to get screwed here on two levels. One, you know, even on the face of it, it's, you can get scammed without any tricks because it's all, there's no promises being made. And two, you really need to figure out your operational security. One thing is I happen to SEO for some crypto stuff though. I get a lot of emails and calls from people who are scammed and I can't even try to help them anymore. They're so deep into it, they're like, no, no, I spoke to the Prime Minister or whatever. So, you know, you're very, you're right that people really need to get serious about informing people about being protected about broader scams. A lot of involve crypto. But it's like you, all you have to do to say to these people is like, are you surprised that you made, you know, $800,000 trading Bitcoin? Do you know what Bitcoin is?

[D.B.]

Fully.

[Dave]

They just get so the, the, the, the psychology of if at all, they're getting pulled in so deeply that I think we, like, regardless of whether or not, you know, this has changed that or people are going to get sucked in, we really need to make a concerted effort to treat, teach people about operational security and just, you know, not buying anything until they're realizing that it's. They may lose their money or I don't know, I don't know what, how to educate people, but realize they're not, they're not in Kansas anymore.

[Zach]

Yeah, and that's the tricky part, that we're 30 plus years into the Internet and people still click links that they shouldn't put in Web two. If something happens, what do you do? You call your bank, they reverse the charge. You call your credit card, they reverse the charge, everything's fixed the next day in web 3, you click the wrong link, you're. And that's why we're not ready. We need a lot more things in place before people are going to be secure. Unless we just go with the complete custodial route, which would be a disaster. But it's not like Web2 and people have that Web2 security mindset of, well, it's okay, someone else will fix it for me if I make a mistake.

[Scott]

No, not because of the sec. Right. And we had a, the CFPB put out a guidance that they wanted to hold. At least the way it was written, it looked like, including non custodial wallets, legally responsible for people losing their funds. And there wasn't a restriction on that. So at least the way it was written, it looked like if you type in the wrong address and you send your Bitcoin into a black hole, then you can sue ledger to get your Bitcoin back because they didn't put adequate protections in place. I don't think that's what we want as an industry. And then in terms of enforcement actions, I think we are going to see, you know, the sec, I think, is going to back off. I think there will be way fewer enforcement actions in cases not involving fraud. But then I think private, like the plaintiff's bar is going to come and fill that role. I'm very surprised that there have not been more class action lawsuits so far. I think this is an absolute gold mine, at least as long as the sort of current howey test is in place. That's a giant legal vulnerability for anyone who launches a token. Plaintiffs lawyers get generally get to keep about a third, somewhere between a quarter and a third of what they win in a lawsuit. We're talking about sometimes billions of dollars of losses. I just lost Zach, but I'm not sure if it's.

[Dave]

Yeah, I can't hear him anymore.

[Buzz]

No, it was Zach. He had the same reaction as me. I thought it was myself.

[Scott]

Yeah, Spaces is just incredibly, incredibly glitchy. Glitchy today. But Zach was making the important point. I think that's like theoretically, the SEC's job is to provide disclosures that allow people to know exactly what they're doing and investing in. Right. And make their own decisions. And maybe we'll get a little more of that from regulators like Paul Atkins and Hester Purse. I think we can hope. I mean, I know Buzz, you're going to take over in a minute, but Brian, I saw you jump up on stage. I'm sure you had some thoughts. No, I think what Zach was saying is kind of important. I think that the civil lawsuits are going to be, I think, important here at holding people accountable. More so than maybe the SEC will be moving forward over the next few years. There's no doubt in my mind that this is like a massive opening that Trump and Melania coin launch for basically anybody to say, hey, I'm going to launch a coin. Whether it's a meme coin or maybe a utility coin or. Or even a coin associated with a business. I think there's a blueprint There now and before there was a lack of clarity. The SEC was responsible for basically pushing businesses aside, having American businesses not, not reach your full potential because they didn't provide clarity. Now there is, you know, that actually flip things on its head and now there's basically, there's no need for clarity because we can see what, what Trump, Trump and Melania have done and just follow that. So it's going to be interesting. I, I do fear there's going to be a lot of people hurt, a lot of ignorant people who aren't familiar with crypto who are just jumping headfirst into the space and it might not be just rug pulls and scams. I think there's just so much, so much other horrible things that can happen, like losing your keys, you know, like just, just falling for, for phishing, phishing emails, stuff like that. And, and, and I, I hope, I hope that despite all of this, we can get a responsible SEC that isn't overbearing and over regulating, but can provide like a roadmap, a road map. I think that's what's going to come. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I do think, listen, like, I mean Trump did this in sort of this perfect moment. Right. We've discussed that kind of over and over again. But I, I don't think that this reflects on Paul Atkins beliefs or how. Yeah, and Atkins has done but like besent, for example, treasury diversity Secretary, he did his entire hedge fund that he spent a lifetime building to become the Secretary of the Treasury. Right. So it's not like everybody is doing the exact same thing necessarily as Trump or following the same roadmap or playbook. And I really do think that an SEC dominated by Atkins, Uyeda and Purse, who have been very reasonable I think is going to be good for consumers and for the industry. But we're going to still see a lot of huge holes here. It's going to be better. Buzz, did you want to jump in?

[Buzz]

Yeah, sure. We do have a sponsor today. It's Quantix AI and just a disclaimer before we get started and then we'll be wrapping the space in about 15 minutes. Is that Mario's company? IBC does marketing, incubation and investing. Sponsors on the show are sponsors working with IBC and not specifically crypto town hall Scott, or even myself. IBC is hiring for writers, journalists and moderators. So if you are looking to join a great team or your project wanting to work with Mario, just DM the crypto town hall account who's up here in the host spot. So I'm not sure who's behind the Quantix Capital account, but happy Monday. It's been a big weekend. Why don't you start it off by just giving an overview of what Quantix AI is?

[D.B.]

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for the stage. Been a really terrific space thus far. My name is Jake Seltzer. I'm the managing director of Quantix Capital. We're a licensed and regulated investment fund and asset management firm based out of the uae. Pretty excited to use this space to have some exciting announcements, such as our $100,000 donation to the Trump campaign. I think there's been a lot of really good points about obviously sort of a crypto party happening within the inauguration and so excited to be part of that and really just excited to kind of share a little bit more about our project and what we're doing.

[Buzz]

Yeah, well, welcome to the show. I mean, it's certainly been a an exciting weekend to say the least. And AI coins were. Were really the dominating headline of the last two weeks. And that sentiment has certainly shifted to all eyes on Salana and meme coins here in the last 48 hours or so.

[D.B.]

Definitely. So I think obviously with. With Trump and Melania, there's been a lot of attention, whether you view that as positive or negative. I think one thing that Trump has shown us is that not all news, even bad news, is negative. Right. Just so you know, bringing a lot of spotlight and a lot of attention on the space is not necessarily a bad thing. But I think that there's been obviously some really good points made within the legal structures and confines of what might come and potential narrative that might come from this. So I think there's definitely been some interesting points that a lot of the speakers have made, but definitely really excited to kind of dive a little bit in on what we do and the potential effect of how Americans potentially could be involved post legislation. So definitely super excited and looking forward to this.

[Buzz]

Well, the AI sector in general, despite losing a little bit of mind share just with inauguration here today, even Deepseek today made an announcement that their open source model is seemingly going to be able to compete with OpenAI. So I don't think at any degree that the AI sector is something that is going to go away just because of the noise of the politify tokens over the course of the last few days. So why don't we kick it off with just an overview of what quantics AI is and how it differentiates itself in the Market?

[D.B.]

Yeah, absolutely. So I think one thing that we've definitely seen with, with obviously Trump and Milani is that there's a need for trading products that essentially offer new traders and first time traders the ability to capitalize on potential market opportunities. And so that's what we really focus on. Right. So spent the last three and a half years developing this tech. Originally started off as a quant trading fund based out of Singapore. So obviously a pretty experienced team, pretty big developer team as well. So we wanted to create a product that essentially used technology that a lot of the large firms that were sort of quant trading were using and make that product available where non subscription. Essentially it's a stake product where you can essentially stake, whether that's usdt, USDC or qai. Rewards are actually earned in usdt, USDC and QAI as well. So the, the ecosystem is very open for everybody. We don't believe in subscription models. That's not something that we've never really focused on. So we kind of just wanted to make tech available for people who didn't necessarily know how to operate those systems on their own accord. So a lot of what we're focused on around is education, helping people know how to manage and navigate markets that are typically complex. So that's really been a lot of our strive and focus since day one. Sorry, am I lost on the space at all? Because I know sometimes not sure for.

[Buzz]

Yeah you did cut out a few times there. But I'm not sure just because spaces is very glitchy today whether it was just me or if it was for all the listeners too. So for people who are listening in emojis definitely help as a host and speaker to know that we do have good audio quality. So if everyone can hear, if we could get some emojis that'd be very helpful. But there's a QAI token as well. Apologies if maybe. Okay, good, I got some thumbs up emojis. Apologies if you did touch on the token, but I would like to go in a little bit deeper to see how the QAI token works within the ecosystem that you're building.

[D.B.]

Yeah, so we've actually had a pretty amazing rise this year. We launched our token at 22 cents, currently sitting I believe at 91 as of today. Essentially the way our token works is the liquidity that goes into the buy orders essentially pulled out, used to trade within our algorithm and then the actual profit of the trading algorithm and goes back into purchase and buy order. So we've seen a 36,000% rise this year we've achieved top 200 on CoinGecko. We actually listed on our eighth exchange today. We'll be on 10 exchanges by the end of the month, including MEXC and another top 10 exchange. So we've had a really good start this year. We're really excited about where our potential is. I mean we're pretty close to that 1B market cap, which is always an amazing milestone and achievement. So from the token perspective we've been, you know, really excited. There's a lot kind of going on and, and it's been great because we actually get to kind of expand our educational tools and show how our bots actually work and, and how our trading solutions are actually somewhat profitable. Right. And so it's kind of great to give that real life case study and, and usability factor. So that's been really great to kind of show within our product and, and I think our community, community has obviously been a reflection of the success that we've had.

[Buzz]

That, that, that one, I mean first off, congratulations on that success thus far. But that 1:1 billion market, is that an FTV? I think a lot of listeners just especially in the last 48 hours are now looking at token supply and things like that. Is that an FTV number? Because when I was looking at that.

[D.B.]

Is that an FTV number? Right now I believe our market cap is somewhere around 400 million which puts us in the top 200 on CG. We're awaiting verification right now from CoinMarketCap. That should be done here in the next few days which will put us in the top 200 on CoinMarketCap as well. So right now FDV is yeah, about 900 million as of today with about 400 million actual market cap, non FTV.

[Buzz]

Awesome. And what's the distribution of the tokens that are currently not in circulation?

[D.B.]

Yeah, so most of the tokens that are in circulation now are held by either the trading bot itself, which provides liquidity to the bot to actually drive profits for the stakeholders and the ecosystem. The team itself actually is on a two year vest. We've actually made our wallets public. All of our distribution is available on our site, so you can actually see bubble maps, everything. We come from a very strong tech background and obviously we're very strong on community as well. So we wanted to design a tokenomics that was obviously really fair. We did no pre sale, so there's not a huge venture fund or huge whales other than, you know, early people who believed in the project who, you know, saw us on centralized exchanges and decided to ape in. But really our distribution model is extremely fair. We didn't want to give, you know, too much power, especially with where we're seeing a lot of the community based back tokens. We really didn't want to have that sort of pre sale and eliminate any potential gains from, from, from buyers. Right. So we really free marketed that and gave it the ability to users to where they could kind of grow with the project. So we actually have a pretty good distribution model now. We're about 1.4% releases every month. A lot of that is actually released directly into the foundation. Foundation does things such as charitable things. We're actually working with Reef Project right now to help potentially restore a number of barrier reefs around the world. So we obviously want to do kind of a crypto cares. We're doing a donation to Trump's campaign and different things like that. So obviously the foundation does not only kind of support the bot itself, but it supports the efforts of the community that reflect our token.

[Buzz]

Awesome. And many market participants, probably many listeners who are listening right now too, have experienced volatility. Especially considered their first site, unprecedented volatility just in the last 48 hours and even today in the morning. How does the, the product help users or sort of manage that volatility and become profitable in an environment like that?

[D.B.]

Yeah, so definitely. So that was something we obviously took into major concern just because, you know, obviously being a licensed and regulated fund within the uae, we have to be careful about the volatility of our products. And so one of the things that we do is the bot essentially takes liquidity from the depth, uses it to trade and then puts it back into the depth and actually does strategic buyback. So as of right now, we have a pretty much bottom line of around 74 to 76, which is great because we know that there's really not a bottom out factor. And this is something that we've kind of shown to VARA as well as other legislators. Here is sort of the strategic buy that we do. And it's great for the community because obviously if you were sort of in the early stages or if you're staking your product, you know that essentially when your state comes, you're not staking to earn half of the capital that you're kind of working with there. So it's been really great. And a lot of people who are within our community really appreciate the work and the backbone that we've really done and created here to create obviously not a stable coin, but what we believe a stable store of Value them.

[Buzz]

Can you touch on the real time data processing and sentiment analysis that the product uses as well? I think that's also a very hot topic in the market now, especially with the emergence of different accounts like AIXBT and things like that. I think listeners would be very interested in that.

[D.B.]

Yeah, definitely. So we use real time data processing tools. So tools like Apache, Kafka. Right. So we ingest a vast amount of data pretty quickly and accurately. So essentially we use NLP sort of techniques and what it really allows us to do is use models like Bert to assess things like social media, financial reports, news in real time. And so this really allows the bot to essentially gain deeper insights into sort of market psychology and trading strategies. And so we believe that gives our traders the edge and data driven informed decisions. And so that's really been the basis and backbone of the bottom layer of our technology.

[Buzz]

You mentioned at the top of the show that you had a few announcements to make. You already kind of dropped one and that the foundation was making a donation to the Trump campaign. I assume another is perhaps around your staking product. But I do want to give you some space here to make those announcements directly on the show.

[D.B.]

Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to actually be launching our Velvet Capital portfolio. Velvet Capital is a binance backed product. So Velvet actually gives you the ability to create individual portfolios with tokens that we've invested in from our fund itself. So one thing we're actually doing is announcing our partnership with Velvet Capital. We'll be opening our portfolio there with tokens such as like NFAI standard protocol, different tokens that we've sort of invested in, different things that our foundation and community have wanted us to invest in.

[Scott]

So.

[D.B.]

So it's been pretty exciting from that perspective. So as well as our RWA platform is actually going to be released here in two months. So again as a license and regulated fund, we have the ability here in the UAE to do financial product offerings. And we've seen pretty huge growth within the RWA sector. We've touched with a number of different governments on CBDCs and how that potentially could look with stablecoin issuance on assets. So we're going to be looking here to launch our RWA platform at the end of next month. Our staking platform goes live at the end of this month. A lot of that sort of coincides and ties into with our major exchange listings. So obviously as we were starting to do a lot more of our top 10 top 20 listings, we obviously wanted to launch products as our community Grows. So some really exciting things kind of happening within the product development. One thing we really wanted to focus on before we launch tokens and kind of had anything is we wanted to really build out our product set. So whether it's the staking, the rwa, the trading infrastructure, the trading platform. Right. Whatever it is that you're looking at, it's a pretty vast ecosystem and a lot of that is supported by us as a fund. And so I think that's a pretty unique product where we're not really seeing a ton of venture funds, incubators launching a token that they kind of use to back other products. And so I think that's incredibly unique of what we've done. So yeah, definitely wanted to use the stage to make our announcement in regards to we're going to be supporting Trump pretty publicly. I think a lot of us are pretty bullish on, on the American economy and, and we see a huge opening here in regards to American policy and what that might mean for the crypto space. So you know, me being an American originally from the US wanted to obviously have a part in that and have been in the space for quite some time. So it's pretty exciting to see the development of that. So obviously you wanted to have, you know, our name in the mix there. So we have some, you know, members obviously attending DC and so it was, it was a really great way to kind of be involved from that perspective. And so between the product developments, between the partnerships that we have, as well as supporting the incubated projects from our fund as well as sort of growing communities together, it's been, it's been pretty exciting. So those are a few of the announcements and look forward to kind of getting a little bit more into some, maybe the nitty gritty of the product and potentially a roadmap of where we see ourselves by end of 25.

[Buzz]

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to, to get into that. Specific to the RWA platform is what I had a question on is, is how that would kind of differentiate from other RWA platforms that are seemingly coming out in the market at an increasing pace here in the last six months, which speaks towards a really growing sector there.

[D.B.]

Yeah, so I, I think there's been a lot of platforms that have taken sort of fractal real estate. We've seen a lot of platforms sort of come in from the gold backed assets which is not something we're really focusing on. So we're looking to do more financial products, equity backed investments where potentially companies can issue equity shares. So obviously I Know, potentially there's some security issue there, but equity shares represented by token users can use our token. We're also in talks. We actually just invested a million dollars into the Tezos ecosystem. We're currently actually looking to invest about another million to two million in the Gala ecosystem. So users from the Gala ecosystem and Tezos ecosystem can actually be investing into equity products as well as token holders from obviously, our ecosystem. So we're trying to kind of bridge a lot of the different technologies together and do offerings that are not necessarily available. So, for example, farmers here in the UAE who are looking to bring truffle farms actually indoor. So we're going to be doing a 5% equity offering of a truffle company here, there. So it's just kind of opening them, the users right. Of our space, up to new product offerings that are not typically afforded to them. I think there's obviously a huge group of degens, and obviously we really respect that style of the space. And, you know, there's obviously a huge part of the space that's really focused and driven on meme coins with what we've seen with Trump and Melania. But I think a lot of people in the space understand investments from the perspective of having new offerings or maybe something that's a little bit more financially secure than just putting money in a meme coin and doing a quick trade. Right. So that's something that we wanted to offer to users, and I think it's something that we're doing that's relatively unique compared to what others are doing in the space.

[Buzz]

What's next on the roadmap?

[D.B.]

So for us right now, obviously, we want to do a little bit more in terms of the exchange offerings. We've obviously had some people come to us with Dexs. We're a little bit concerned in regards to deck offerings and how that will be looked at from a legislative perspective. So right now we're really focused on. I think a lot of what we're focused on is community. Right. And that reflects into our roadmap. So right now, obviously, looking to expand our exchange offerings currently on eight exchanges by the end of this year. We're hoping to be on at least 14 to 15 exchanges by end of this month, potentially 10 end of next month, 12. A lot of that focus on top 20 exchanges. Again, sort of listing here on Mexc in the next few days, which was really kind of our big kickoff into the top 10. And so looking at other platforms, you know, such as Bit and Gate and Kucoin, so that's definitely on the roadmap for us here near and then obviously sort of launching a lot of our real products and products that people can use that are tangible. Right. So obviously wanted to come out with pretty big partnerships with Gala and Tezos and how we integrate that into our system. So obviously looking at more layer one chains to potentially invest into Bridge and just find ways to expand our ecosystem. So really right now I would say our major focus for 25 is expanding our ecosystem in terms of community as well as showcasing our products and letting people actually take advantage of everything we've been building for the last three years.

[Buzz]

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you joining the show. For anybody who is listening in, make sure that you're giving Quantics Capital follow. I know Spaces is a little bit glitchy today for me. You're still showing up as a listener, but I'm sure that the audience can see you in a speaker spot and click on the profile, give them a follow. As same with goes with all of the other speakers here as well. I do want to plug that. The inauguration is going to be happening in about 30 minutes and on Mario's main account, we'll definitely be hosting many Spaces throughout the day to follow the inauguration. But as we're wrapping up here, Quantic, what are some final calls to action for people in the community? How can they get involved if they're tuning in?

[D.B.]

Yeah, we would love for you guys to join our telegram. We're really active there. We try to be as interactive with our community as possible. If you're a project looking for funding, please reach out to us. We're always looking at new opportunities in regards to exciting technology. But I would say final sort of call to action would be to just get involved. Right. Whether it's using our products, exploring our tech developers who are looking for, you know, support. We, we really just want to grow our ecosystem. So join us, talk to us, email us, text us. We're always available. 75 of our investments have been from. From cold Leads. So we really just are passionate about the space. We're really excited to see the space grow and again, thank you guys so much for, for giving us the platform and it's been amazing. We really enjoyed being kind of the sponsor of this, obviously with the inauguration and stuff. This is something that we timed and wanted to be precise on. So really appreciate you guys giving us the platform and, and it's been really great sort of just being part of this.

[Buzz]

Yeah, thanks for joining and for, for people who are tuning in. Again, make sure to give them a follow and make sure to tune in in 30 minutes for the inauguration. There's, there's going to be a lot of volatility today. So remain safe and hope for, for green candles. I know that that's what I'm hoping for. So quantics, thanks again and everybody have a great Monday. Happy Holidays for those who are celebrating in America and just praying for green candles. So thanks everyone for tuning in.