← The Wolf Of All Streets
The Wolf Of All Streets
Trillion Dollar Power Play Behind Bitcoin & Crypto Treasuries Revealed!
00:42:05
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- [00:02]
A
Seemingly the only topic worth discussing right now, outside of course, of legislation, regulation, is bitcoin and crypto treasury companies. We're seeing stories that some of the appetite for them might be decreasing, but that doesn't mean that there are not certain treasury companies that are going to continue to thrive and thrive massively. Today's guest, David Namdar, actually running one of those treasury companies and one that's very unique and definitely worth discussing. Of course, we're also going to talk about markets, all of the news and everything that's driving crypto at the moment. But luckily we finally have someone to do a deep dive on treasury companies with, who's actually built a Treasury company. Let's go.
- [00:46]
B
Let's dope.
- [00:59]
C
That's dope.
- [01:01]
A
Morning, everybody. Happy Wednesday and welcome to the show. And also welcome to the show. We've got a guest. Never been here before. David, good morning. How are you?
- [01:11]
B
Good morning.
- [01:11]
A
Very good. We've done spaces, but haven't yet had you on YouTube. So listen, there's a lot going on in the market. I remember when we used to have one story to talk about a month and it would drive bitcoin up and down 30, 40%. Now every single day we have a new story about some regulation or some legislation. I think it's fair to say that we're playing in the big leagues now and I can't imagine that that was the case when you started it. For those who don't know, I mean, you were one of the co founders of Galaxy Digital alongside Mike Novogratz. You have a long, long history of building institutional products in this space.
- [01:52]
B
Yeah, thanks for that intro. And I believe in last night I was at the New York Stock Exchange for an event and, you know, it's kind of remarkable. And I was with a number of my kind of earliest friends in the crypto space, a number of other builders, a couple CEOs of other treasury companies. And to think how far we've come from where we began. Nick Spanos was actually there and him and another friend of mine, Austin and partner Austin Alexander, started the Bitcoin center back in 2012, 2013, down on Wall street to try to force TRADFI and Wall street to open their eyes to bitcoin and crypto. And so, you know, it's amazing that now we're infiltrating the New York Stock Exchange, the nasdaq, every, every stock exchange around the world soon.
- [02:33]
A
Yeah. So listen, let's dive deeper into that. First of all. Right now we have a report coming from US Lawmakers seeking the Department of the treasury to report on feasibility security of government held bitcoin. This, of course, around a strategic bitcoin reserve. We have Lummis, who's obviously long been a champion of the space, saying, listen, we're getting market structure, but then we're moving right on to strategic bitcoin reserve. And this is one of the first times we've actually seen meaningful movement, I think, in that direction. It's been a huge talking point. We had the legislation right when basically Trump came into office, but now we're actually seeing movement on whether this is feasible or not and trying to figure out how it would be done.
- [03:14]
B
Yeah, so actually, you know, another big headline today, more on the international side was Kyrgyzstan announced a strategic bitcoin reserve. And so we kind of forget sometimes, you know, how global the market is. You know, I always like to bring up what El Salvador has achieved in a short period of time. Really putting themselves on the map by adopting bitcoin and attracting capital and innovators there. I've been down there, meet with the government myself a couple of years ago, actually I was there with CZ a couple of years back. And then, you know, all of these other countries are copying now at this point, like every government, every central banker has to be thinking about a street of bitcoin reserve. And then you have some, like Germany that have sold off their bitcoin holdings and that could change the fate of their nation. When we look back on it decades from now.
- [04:02]
A
Yeah, it's really crazy to see it finally happening. Even if it's happening in these smaller countries. There are quite a few of them that we just don't talk about because we're so heavily focused on everything that's happening in the United States. But bitcoin adoption is happening all around the world. And you kind of talked about the fact that bitcoin and crypto are taking over public markets. I think the next big story here, and I know you're close with these guys, is Gemini Lift's IPO price range targets 3 billion valuation amid crypto boom. This has to be the next kind of, I guess, weather vane bellwether for how the market is being received on the stock market, like how much appetite there is for crypto. We saw Etoro did way better than I would have anticipated. Bullish did exponentially better than I would have anticipated. And here we are now with Gemini.
- [04:52]
B
Well, you know, so this is where, I mean, these are all close friends of mine who I've known for a long time. Yoni At Etoro's built an incredible business. Was very happy to see the success there. Brendan Bloomer and Bullish have kind of surprised people with. People have forgotten about Bullish and still very few. It's something that's kind of known among institutions but not really among any retailers and whereas Gemini is kind of the opposite. Whereas Gemini's quite known much more among retail and has taken an institutional approach. So it's been really fighting on a number of different fronts. But I have so much respect for the Winklevoss twins and you know, what Tyler and Cameron have done over the years is like they, they've been fighting it out in New York despite over regulation, NYDFs, BIT license, all of that. And now you know, I'm happy to see I'm actually participating in the IPO and a big supporter of theirs.
- [05:45]
A
Weren't you? Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you participate in their early efforts to get an ETF in 2014?
- [05:54]
B
Well, not in their efforts but with my own efforts. We were, we were actually the first two in the world. The twin wake of us and myself and my team at SolidX at trying to do a Bitcoin ETF I think we filed within a couple weeks of each other and you know, it was a 10 year battle. We helped VanEck BlackRock. You know, you can't imagine how many hours I spent at all these financial institutions and banks and PE firms trying to educate them on the space. And then, you know, it's a bit bittersweet when the ETFs were finally approved last year, like partly for me because I really wish like, you know, we'll never know what damage kind of the SEC and kind of regulation did to not allow US investors to get into Bitcoin and mass at 100 to $300 per Bitcoin instead of 30, 40,000 when the ETF was finally approved.
- [06:42]
A
Okay, so you obviously were on the forefront of the ETF push which was the first I think iteration of bitcoin and crypto exposure on Wall Street. We obviously saw how that was received when we finally got the BlackRock ETFs and the rest of them. Now clearly, clearly the big trend is treasury companies, right? I mean we saw this announcement yesterday. Qmm source over 600% after unveiling 100 million crypto treasury plan. This is a Treasury company that's going to hold a bunch of different tokens in and of itself not a huge story. I think just the fact that it went up 600% still in this market where you have articles that say crypto treasury frenzy is already running out of steam, seem to be conflicting, because I think there's a sentiment that it might be running out of steam, but there's still people certainly finding a way to make announcements that cause massively huge bumps in. In these stocks. And some of those actually sustain.
- [07:36]
B
Well, I guess, you know, and I've seen this with. I've had a lot of reporters reach out to me and, you know, I get contacted by everyone you can imagine from between reporters. Retail institutions really, of like hedge funds, longer institutional investors, sovereign funds, and then entrepreneurs in the space. And so I do think the market is reaching a. A bit of an exhaustion point in conversations around Treasuries. And we're seeing a lot of people kind of just throw really bad ideas against the wall. And so that's the stuff that happens whenever any point in the market's kind of overheated. But at the same time, what gets me excited is I just use that as a way to filter out that noise. And the ones that kind of rise to the top, they're still. I'm still looking at treasury companies every week and looking at making new investments. And so that's really where, you know, it. It lets me kind of have a bit more clarity and differentiation among the good teams, the good projects and the bad ones.
- [08:37]
A
And we were kind of talking privately before, and we've talked about it on spaces. It seems like maybe you actually have to have a novel plan or a different plan than all of the other ones that are flooding into the market right now. Obviously, we saw some exhaustion on the bitcoin treasury side. I know that you were pitched that idea sort of conceptually. So I want to dive in more to what you've actually built because it's a different play, right? You have a BNB treasury company, BNB Network company. And there's a lot of reasons that to me makes a hell of a lot more sense. I've been actually pushing the narrative for months since the bitcoin treasury companies launched, because I was struggling with it as a sort of existential risk to the market, maybe that it's almost impossible to beat bitcoin using bitcoin. Right? You just could have to take on some sort of risk to actually increase your value of your share per Bitcoin, because there's no native yield, nothing like that. Altcoins, whether you believe in them as treasury assets or not, they have proof of stake and yield and defi. And there's ways to justify beating the benchmark. On a lot of these coins. And that's become sort of my base case. And you chose bnb, so maybe we can dive into why that is.
- [09:53]
B
Sure. So actually one of the very first recorded kind of talks I ever gave at a crypto conference in 2013 or 14 was bitcoins versus altcoins. And me and a close friend, we flipped a coin and who would take which side. I took altcoins. And you know, I think since then bitcoin has grown from, you know, close to 0 to 2 trillion in market cap and altcoins have grown from 0 to 2 trillion market cap. So we've both been right. But you know, for me, looking ahead, it's. Look, I'll, I'll always. I've been a crypto and bitcoin believer from the very beginning. I'll always be and always proudly carry the bitcoin flag. But it does. There are certain things that worry me. We don't need 10, 50, 100 treasury companies in every market. We do need and we'll see hundreds of companies put crypto on their balance sheet when they, you know, I think one of the key things there is like, especially as you look outside of the us, a lot of companies in all different markets around the world, both public and private, have realized the benefit of holding US Dollars or euros on their balance sheet instead of their local currency. Well, thanks to Saylor and a number of other of us who are out there talking about the merits of bitcoin, people have realized, well, it's actually maybe better to hold bitcoin on our balance sheet than US Dollars or any other fiat currency. So now as we look at some of the other crypto assets, not every crypto asset is the same, right? There are very, very few that actually have passed and surpassed and outperformed bitcoin or even kind of kept almost like kept track with bitcoin over the last couple of years. And for me, one of the very special ones that I've followed for a long time and been involved with is bnb. And there's a number of reasons why. So BNB was started in 2017 and its ICO back then and it was tied to Binance Exchange, which as you know, as many people, by far the largest exchange in the entire crypto market. And yet to me, it's a story that's still not very well known in the US and so I like to find things, this is how I pursue things as an investor and kind of buy side mentality myself. I like to find things that are Underappreciated, under known, underexposed, and also massive and things that I would want to hold onto for a long time. So for me, having exposure to the largest exchange, the entire space that is under kind of under known and at the same time is growing massively. So BNB is one of the few coins that actually outperform bitcoin. And then even since we started this company or started the treasury strategy at BNC, BNB I think has outperformed by about 10 to 15%. So I've had a couple friends that pointed that out to me.
- [12:29]
A
Yeah, it's outperformed and kind of, as you hinted at, it's been one of those Persona non grata assets in the United States. Like, you know, you couldn't even, I could be wrong, but I feel like you couldn't even get BNB on Binance us back then.
- [12:46]
B
I don't think so. And then if you could only, I mean, you probably see this more than anyone. If you could imagine just how every time I see a chart or when people are talking about crypto assets or comparing it, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, Bitcoin, xrp, Solana, Right. And people just completely overlook it. And they also often mention a lot of things, Algorand, swe, all these ones that are much, much smaller and much less kind of important to the crypto ecosystem. And so a key thing I came up with, and now gold was breaking out to new highs this week. Bitcoin, I think is 10 12% off the highs. And I as much conviction as ever that bitcoin has won this gold narrative. Digital gold, and we'll pass gold at some point. So that means passing a 15,20 trillion market cap. Ethereum's caught a lot of momentum in the market in the last couple of months where it's this digital oil, right? And it's looked at as, you know, not quite like gold. Not a store of value, more of a commodity. And now people have gotten very excited about the stablecoin theme with the circle ipo. But it's, I think people don't understand what BNB is. And BNB has a similar stablecoin theme to Ethereum, but it also has and touches every part of the crypto market, right? Trading and defi and decentralized exchanges and NFTs in every part of it. And it's sort of this digital infrastructure equity. And so to me, you know, it's one of the few things that when I look at the crypto market that I want to have exposure to for the long term.
- [14:20]
A
And a lot of us just can't get exposure to it directly.
- [14:22]
B
Right? Yeah. And that it's, it's not listed on Coinbase. There's no other way to get exposure to it in the US markets. And so I like, you know, when things are going back to when I started my career and in the crypto space, the first thing I tried to do was start the ETF and also create total return swaps. And what that is, that's a kind of derivative instrument to give exposure to difficult to access investments. So I was trading at UBS at Millennium. I was investing into the Korean market and Indonesia and India and all these difficult to access markets. But I would do a total return swap with a bank in Hong Kong or London so they would make it the biggest banks, Goldman, UBS would enable me to get that exposure. So what we've, what I tried to do at Solid X was do that for Bitcoin and Ethereum. And now what I'm trying to do is, you know, utilize this, this trend and opportunity within the public markets to give people exposure to this really unique and special asset in bnb.
- [15:17]
A
So outside of the fact that you're giving exposure to an asset that generally people can't get exposure to the treasury company model, there's an expectation that you're going to somehow beat that asset. Right. So at least, certainly with all of the other ones, Bitcoin, Ethereum, you can just buy Bitcoin Ethereum. So they really have to beat it because this isn't just exposure, but in this case, structurally, how does this work? How do you, I'm sure you get the questions on how much BNB per share are we going to own and all of that. Like how does that actually work? How do you make sure that you don't trade at a discount, things like that.
- [15:57]
B
Absolutely. So I think it's really two components that now we haven't kind of put out all of the details and plans on that, but it's something that we will be providing more and more disclosure and kind of going forward. I was just on the phone prior to this with Simon from Metaplanet and I think they've really, they're one of the best at putting out metrics on, you know, the, the Bitcoin per share and everything that they're doing and kind of also putting out a cadence of their buying plan and telling people what they're going to buy and then going out and buying it. So I think we're looking at, you know, we know we're very well connected in the space. We know a lot of the CEOs and teams behind many of the other treasury companies. So we're, you know, in conversations and looking at the, the right way to kind of reveal some of those plans to the market. And then similarly like or separately, you know, the, the other thing is just that compared to these other assets there's a lot more opportunity within the BNB ecosystem towards, you know, and just as an asset it has this utility and scarcity value where there is a deflationary aspect to it and that makes it very different than really any of the other large crypto assets.
- [17:06]
A
Makes a lot of sense. So what are those specific things that you can do maybe for people who don't know in the BNB ecosystem? I mean people have seen the Ethereum treasury company pitches where they're like yeah, we could just stake it 3%, we can go into AAVE, we can go into DeFi, we can do all these things to earn a relatively safe yield outside of maybe smart contract risk or the asset dropping 50%.
- [17:29]
B
Well that's one of the key interesting things here. With a lot of these you have kind of very big differentiation in the teams that are running these, right? Where you have some that are doing a very good job of being on TV and promoting the stories and getting a lot of hype. Right. And then you have others that really are the founders of these different projects and crypto ecosystems and really understand all the nuances of them. And at the same time there's a lot of people that don't understand the regulatory side of it and how to actually deal with the markets and financial markets infrastructure. So I think one of the Ethereum treasury companies was kind of surprised to see with the liquid staking that actually that's different than holding the assets directly. And for accounting rules they had to mark a significant loss because they had to mark down the value of those assets. Right now again, it's just an accounting loss, but it still is a, an on paper loss that they had to recognize, you know. And so I think that's where, you know, when I look at it as, as a Treasury company and really as an investor in Treasure companies, you know, the teams are being paid, right? And you're kind of empowering the management teams to execute on their plans to accumulate more of the underlying asset. You're not paying them to take risks on, on losing the asset. So even something as, you know, as I was talking to some other teams before and they were talking about doing something, a strategy where they sell calls right now as, as a derivative or option on it. Well, you're not paid to take that risk in selling a call because if the market price of that asset shoots up, if bitcoin shoots up to 200, 000 or BNB shoots to 2000 and you had sold calls and you're taken out of the position, right. You can't have your treasury assets go down. Right. And, and so I think it's, it's a tricky thing that not what I'd say is, you know, as I meet and a lot of other management teams of different treasury companies, you know, I really try to think about who are the teams that I would bet on to execute on the strategy over a multi year view. Not just playing into this like couple month hype cycle.
- [19:35]
A
I mean, which is interesting because then you're really looking at a team with talented investors. And I've called a lot of these, they're basically just hedge funds, right? A lot of them are just, it's a hedge fund and you got to choose the right to. Nothing wrong with that if they say it. But you're looking at people who you think are more talented and can beat the market better than others.
- [19:57]
B
I actually see them. It's a funny thing. We'll come up with what I love about the crypto market and we kind of force, we create a lot of chaos. And I do personally, I know, but we kind of force a lot of new terms and innovation on kind of on regulators, investors, VCs, lawyers, everybody. And I kind of see these, they're a little bit more closer to mutual funds, like actively managed mutual funds than hedge funds. Now personally, one of the things I love about this is like really in order to make money, everyone has to make money. It's a very beautiful strategy. And like I look at it like, you know, it's, I'm hoping to play my part and you know, with bnc, but also, you know, with being involved with some other treasury companies and investing in them and helping the space grow. I, I've always. The kind of approach I've taken is, you know, I love the crypto market. I'm a crypto geek and futurist first and you know, I will always be. And I look at it like it's the most beautiful non zero sum game the world's ever seen, right? So everybody who's trying to do stuff in the space, I mean I look at what you're doing, building your media empire, right? And you've been playing, look all of these things are coming at the crypto angle from multiple ways and helping, you know, caution people and helping people kind of step into the crypto space in whatever ways comfortable for them for investing in it through direct access through public market vehicles, you know, protecting them, understanding the Treasuries, not just buying into the hype, but trying to buy into and understand kind of the potential of them and then also getting jobs in the space, starting new companies. You know, I think I'm super collaborative across like one of my friends who runs FG Nexus, she posted a picture of us at the New York Stock Exchange yesterday and you know, like Ethereum and BNB communities coming together. So I played the support all of these and I actually know that, you know, what played out recently with some of the Ethereum treasury companies and now there's a couple of Solana ones that have launched. There's actually and I fully expect there's going to be quite a few more companies that launch focus entirely on BNB as a Treasury asset.
- [21:59]
A
Yeah. So I guess from the perspective of myself, the viewers, your average person, how do you differentiate between these, how do you evaluate what treasury company you might want to buy? How do you evaluate whether you should buy treasury company stock or the underlying asset directly if you have actually that option?
- [22:20]
B
Sure. So, you know, we're starting to see this number of dashboards or like look for there's people putting out information. Blockworks has put out a Treasury dashboard and they're, you know, things are moving so quickly so it's hard to have all the information be perfectly accurate. But you know, I would really caution people from buying into anything after the hype and announce or into the initial hype and announcement. Right. We were talking about this on your show the other day of like and there was just another one this week, the World Coin one. And I followed the World Coin story very well. I think Tom Lee investing in it and becoming a part of it. I'm a bit surprised. And my Partner's actually at 10x we were talking to the Worldcoin teams and involved and I know a lot of Worldcoin investors and everything. I actually had been telling people that in order for it to do well, they really needed Sam Altman to get involved and put fresh cash in and ultimately they found Tom Lee. So they went a different direction but they, they got the result they wanted for now. But even now I'm. The first thing I'm doing is trying to caution everybody from, you know, just buying into something because of the names involved and not looking at you Know the, I think the underlying price was around a $50 and it was trading up to 40, 50, $60. Right. So in my mind, you know, again, people don't understand that you would need a world coin price. They didn't even buy the world coin yet. But you need a world coin price of 30, $40 to kind of justify that price level that you're buying into it. Right. So I'd say wait until after the hype, really get to know the teams, look into buying at some reasonable multiple to MNEV and not chasing it.
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A
So clearly there's the hype cycle at the very beginning. A lot of these will wash out. I think everybody agrees with that. So let's talk about what these look like long term. Let me even ask you more specifically bnc, like what's the plan for this long term? What's it look like in 2, 3, 5, 10 years as opposed to everyone's just looking at 2, 3, 5 weeks on these things right now.
- [24:18]
B
Sure. So, you know, I think this is where it's a little tricky what I can say and can't say, but I'll paint a little bit of a vision here. We put out this kind of ambitious target just to accumulate 1% of the total BNB supply. That's a starting point. And I think other treasury companies who've put out similar goals as they've executed on it, they've managed to kind of exceed and raise their ambitions. So I'll tell you, I'm very ambitious and my team is. And then over time as you get to, and you accumulate kind of larger positions in these ecosystems, then you really get to kind of get involved with more things and help drive the direction of the, of the, of the ecosystems. Like, you know, I was at the New York Stock Exchange a couple weeks ago for a demo day of teams building on bnb and then I think they had, it just had its five year anniversary as BNB chain. And you know, they've done events in markets all over the world, back to back, five days in a row. And you know, I think there's, there's a lot of activity. So what you'll start to see with some of the treasury companies and actually as we were talking about like with a microstrategy, when you get to a certain level of scale, all of a sudden these treasury companies start to become systematically important in their own ecosystems and more broadly. And so you start to see them as kind of like something in between Endowments and Berkshire, like holding companies that really can actually play an important part in the next wave of growth in each of those ecosystems.
- [25:49]
A
You'll be interested to know that as we're speaking, BNB made a new all time high.
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B
There we go.
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A
I think it hit 904. 72 depends on the exchange you're looking at, but right around 904. So clearly the market gods agree with all the things that you're generally saying here and think that it's the right asset for this plan. And maybe then what do you see the entire treasury land. I know we're kind of against time, but the entire treasury landscape as moving forward, do you think that it does consolidate into a big few big players inside each one? Like should BNC have a whole bunch of extra capital aside for the other five BNB ones that completely fail so that you can just buy up their Treasuries when they're at a discount?
- [26:34]
B
You know, I mean, listen there, there was, I'm, like I said, I've been in the space a long time. I'm super collaborative. I want everyone to succeed, you know, everyone who is out there. And every time like I saw Faraday Future announced that they're putting some money into BNB and everyone that's out there doing it, I want to collaborate with them and support and help. You know, I'm out here telling the story and there's, there's a lot of people out there, I'm following in CZ's footsteps who's been telling the story and carrying the BNB flag, you know, and the bitcoin flag as well, better than almost anyone in the space. And so, you know, for me, I, I think when, when I've seen some recently, some Treasuries trading below their MNEV kind of investor in me, the first thing I'm thinking is, all right, at what point are they going to buy it back? Or at a certain point do I need to go raise capital to come in and buy it? Because I'm kind of, I'm compelled. If I ever see something, you know, that's worth a dollar selling for below a dollar, I want to go and you know, do what I can to buy that and accumulate it. Now some will be trickier than others, but absolutely, like actually I think even strive with Vivek Ramaswamy, he put out something interesting. They were one of the first ones to make a comment that they would buy up companies that were trading at negative net cash. So even just one sitting in the stock market, if you have a company that has 50 million of cash but enterprise value of 25, 30 million. Why not go and buy that and then put the balance into crypto?
- [27:56]
A
Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. So listen, we kind of ran out of time fast but anything else I might have missed?
- [28:01]
B
No, I mean, listen, I can tell this is such a great conversation. I'm so happy to be here with you that the fact that my eyes have been glued to screens and markets and been working 247 and so the fact that I was with you during an all time high is a nice moment and to many more all time highs ahead.
- [28:18]
A
Yeah, it's interesting. The market is kind of pushing so hard. Bitcoin's at like 13,005 which is the highest. It's actually been kind of throughout this little correction for the past few weeks and maybe it's ppi, I don't know.
- [28:30]
B
We got, I got actually one question for you, put you on the spot. So I know we're talking a lot about interest rates. I liked your take about how look, sometimes with interest rates getting cut they're not always, it's not always a positive thing. Now again we like to be hopeful. I'm very optimistic. What's your, what's your prediction for, for the interest rates cuts or not down then up?
- [28:49]
A
I really don't know. But I think that if you look historically, if jobs are really this bad, you are making the argument that the Fed rate cuts are coming to fix something from breaking. That's not usually the best environment. You know, I think that people were looking for the Fed to cut before there was bad news and maybe not happening now.
- [29:13]
B
I thought we just found out that the jobs numbers are just a picture that's painted and then gets painted over and they're not really.
- [29:19]
A
So if everybody accepts that the job numbers are fake, it's irrelevant. But when you revise down 911,000 more jobs on last year, you know that the entire job market is strong narrative was fugazi for another year even though they did the same thing the year before. And now if you have inflation coming down, I think it gives him a lot more cover to cut actually. So yesterday I would have said, I would have said bad for markets yesterday. And now if inflation is actually coming down, I say maybe a little bit better for markets. So every day's data changes the opinion.
- [29:49]
B
Complicated. It's a complicated game we're playing. Actually one thing I want to put out there just because I've been struggling with this and I need some help to find it and maybe your readers watchers can help with this. That Sort of one of the most fascinating things, if I go back to when I was at Millennium, so It was over 10 years ago that I saw was actually historically, whenever the Fed cuts rates or rates go back to this historical medium between like 3 and 5% is super bullish. So when interest rates are above and they go back towards 3%, it's very bullish. When they go below 3%, it's bad. Or when they're very low and the market's so hot that they start kind of raising rates back to that 3, 4% level is bullish. But when they go above, it gets bearish. But I haven't been able to find that data anywhere.
- [30:33]
A
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I didn't really consider that. But that there could be a basically a Goldilot locks range that you're trying to reset to where markets do particularly well. And it can't be considered a panic or that something's broken unless you're outside that range. Right. I like that. Gave me something to definitely think about here. David, man, everybody. You can give David a follow obviously on X and highly encourage you to check out everything that BNC is doing. It's a really compelling case because some of these I just yawn, you know, when I see them. But there was actually a lot of time where I personally wanted to trade BNB and couldn't, you know, so it's really compelling, especially from. From that perspective. And obviously having someone like you who's been in the market for so long building these things behind it when we talk about the team should give a lot of confidence. So I hope everybody gives you a follow and checks it out. Thank you so much for coming on, man. I really appreciate it.
- [31:28]
B
Of course. Thanks for having me, Scott. And keep rocking on your end too.
- [31:31]
A
All right, man. Great. I'm sure we're going to have David back a lot of times, hopefully in the future. Is really great conversation and has so much insight on the topics that we discussed. Another person who has a whole lot of insight is Christopher Inks. And we know that his mic's going to work because it just works now.
- [31:47]
C
That's right. It just works. Right. How are you doing, man?
- [31:52]
A
I'm good. And you showed up at the right time. If we're gonna have a chart day, we finally get to have one where it appears a bunch of things are breaking out. David and I obviously just talking about the fact that BNB made a new time high, all time high. We couldn't. We didn't plan that. You know, I Didn't say, hey David, we're gonna have you on, on all time high moment. So that was very cool. And bitcoin, you know, looking strong through this kind of obvious 112 area that it's been struggling with.
- [32:18]
C
Yeah, exactly. I mean as far as BNB goes, that's the one. You know, you were with us back then TWC when it was launched and I completely missed the launch on that, but you know. Yeah, well, you know, and after that first, I've been really a big fan of it. I was the guy, you know, when it was pulling back there toward that 180 level and it was like gonna free fall through if it fell through. And everybody was like, oh my God, it's the end BNB and you know, Binance is having all these issues with the US and, and you know, CZs going to jail, prison and all this, you know, and everybody's like, oh, it's dead. I was like, no, wouldn't it be a shame? I posted on Twitter, I said, wouldn't it be a shame if it just held here and took off? And it did. And you know, I've been a big proponent of it as it continues to go higher. So you know, I like them. I like Link, I like Saul. Those have been the three that I've been pretty consistent on. But you know, bitcoin, man, this is kind of the area I'm looking to get through. I need a daily candle. I need a daily candle to break out and close impulsively above this. 113, 329. That's that monthly pivot. If we can get that, it suggests the bottom is, is probably in. We want further breakout above 117, 440 and a half to kind of add confidence to this correction being over. And you know, locally here I've, I've got this potentially as a 1 and a 2 as a flat here. And that gives us a minimum of five waves up around 118, 841. So that'll get us above that area there. So I could see basically a move kind of like this. As long as we can get this continuation through today, get maybe like a move up to that R1 pivot back down here to the pivot and then a takeoff there up through into a new all time high. So, you know, we'll see if we get it. I'm cautiously optimistic this morning. I do like the setup here. I like the, the follow through so far after PPI was released. And so, yeah, you know, it's just can we do this? You know, we got that, you know, multiple hits there. So we are breaking out above it technically. Coming off the swing high here, we've got this bearish market structure, and we did break out now above that last lower high there. So again, a lot of things happening a lot of different ways. You can look at this technically, and it looks like the setup's good. It looks like we may potentially get that breakout. We'll just have to see how this day ends, so. And, you know, when bitcoin's good, everybody's happy. Everything else seems to do pretty all right as well.
- [34:50]
A
Funny how that works.
- [34:52]
C
Amazing, isn't it? Let me see here.
- [34:57]
A
What else are you looking at in Cont? I mean, if we get a nice bitcoin breakout here. And by the way, even on this little breakout, I mean, it's not a big move, but bitcoin dominance is still kind of flat. So alter keeping up at least.
- [35:09]
C
Yeah, yeah. You know, total three was up to last night, up to like 1.08 trillion. So it continues to, you know, to push higher here we've got Ethereum. We've had this, like, this range here sitting on top of the monthly pivot for a while now. And, you know, it looks like we've got a one and a two here, and we're starting to get a breakout through this kind of descending resistance area. I'm really looking for a. A daily candle to break out and close above this 4,498, basically 4,500 area. And I think if we can get that, that'll probably signal that that low is in. We can look higher. So based off this here being a 1 and a 2, I've got minimum expected wave 3 target at 5818, basically, and wave 5 up there at 6275. That isn't the, you know, the top or anything, but, you know, for this particular set of waves coming off here, that would give us minimally 5 up. Now it could also go higher than that, of course, but I'm really kind of looking at that as. As this kind of next move up here through it. So, you know, like you said, you know, bitcoin doing its thing. Bitcoin dominance still kind of flat. Alts are still moving. So as we see it, we'll see it right here with Ethereum. I've got XRP here for your XRP army. I know you've got such a huge, big of, you know, group of fans from XRP that watch. Yeah. So we've got this, this great looking range right here. This looks like a spring down here on a potential reaccumulation. Again we're trying to break through that monthly pivot. We do have this descending resistance we're coming up above. So it's looking pretty good at this point. Breaking out above 3.38 and a quarter of a cent there. 3.3, 3.3825 is going to add confidence this overall correction being completed here and that'll give us a pattern target next step up here probably around $4 and 42 and a half cents or so. So XRP really kind of setting up for some potential move. But again we do want to see some follow through here. And then we got link and link looking a bit like Ethereum there with the pullback to that monthly pivot. Oh that you getting that breakout there above that descending resistance looks like it's ready, it wants to go. I would want to see, to add some confidence. This like the other ones there. I would want to see a breakout above. Let me see here. You know what? Yeah, let's do this one right here. Let's say we, we are breaking out right here. So we'll say this one right here, this $26 area. If we can get that, that should indicate the low is in and we're heading up here. Pattern target is 32.46. So that would be the next kind of move up I would look for on that one. And so you're seeing a similar thing across a lot of alts. They're looking, you know, similarly either breaking up through these pivots, these monthly pivots and a lot of them with some real kind of, real kind of impulsiveness, large candles, large spikes of volume really kind of getting through there or they're finding you know like these, where they're finding support on those pivots. And you know, I like to see that when we're looking at alts, when I'm seeing a lot of the alts kind of looking that way where they're finding support around there and or head drop below it and they're really kind of busting their way up through usually sets up a good run to come up. So you know, as I'm looking there and with bitcoin continuing to do its thing, you know, I'm feeling, feeling pretty good at the moment. So. But we still need, we still need the follow through, right? I mean I can feel good all I want but unless price actually gives us a bit of follow through, you know, we're just Going to be sitting there going, dang it. It can't do it. It hasn't broken through yet.
- [39:01]
A
Yeah, so that's a nice candle today. Almost hitting 14, 000 now. So. But yeah, you know, we were up at. Where were we yesterday? We got up to 13, three and all the way back down to close, you know, almost 11. So. Yeah, yeah, really got to see this confirmation, as you said.
- [39:17]
C
Yeah, and it's still going right here. So since we just talked about a minute ago, it's still pushing up higher there. So, you know, definitely what we want to see. You know, I've been talking about this structure for a bit, this reaccumulation here on top of reaccumulation. So you've got your. Your initial reaccumulation here. You know, according to Wyckoff, you know, you get this back up the edge of the creek here, which is this whole thing, and that just becomes a secondary reaccumulation sitting on top of your other reaccumulation. And so looking like maybe a spring down here, we're getting some movement back up, you know, it's looking. It's looking. It's looking constructive, so just need to follow through.
- [39:57]
A
Yeah. Anything else on your radar as you're looking at all this? No, just kind of look the same. So we gotta just see what bitcoin does now. It's over 114 now. Looking pretty good. It's definitely the highest it's been since it dropped on like the 25th of August. So we're, you know, a couple weeks into that little kind of correction below 112, and we're, you know, getting there now.
- [40:18]
C
Yeah, exactly. I think people will be scared to get in, though. I think a lot of people, unfortunately, you know, it is. It's the tale of what it always is. You know, in the markets, people get scared down at the bottoms when they should be paying attention and potentially building positions, you know, and they get all excited at the top. They want to buy that breakout, you know, and of course, as you know, that's something I teach. We don't do. Right. You build your positions down that. You get in lower, and then when it gets up to that breakout, you let everybody else kind of, you know, FOMO in and carry you higher. And you've got a lot of cushion in there because you did get that position down lower. So, you know, that's the way you should be looking. If you're trading, if you're buying breakouts, you're probably a lot less effective than you want to be. And so, you know, if you can learn to, to understand these structures and get in down in the lower ends of it, it gives you a lot of room for whatever happens at the breakout. Whether it breakout goes, whether it breaks out, pulls back and goes whether it just breaks out, fake comes back in. You've got a lot of time to think. You don't have to worry about stressing out and being, you know, worry about FOMO and all the other crazy stuff that goes in on it.
- [41:25]
A
You got it. All right, well, we're gonna see how the day ends. Gonna hope that it just continues to at least stay here, go higher, Look a lot different if we do. Oh, I think closing above this area. So guys, give Texas West Capital, TX West Capital next a follow. Check out everything he's got going on and otherwise we'll see you guys next week. Thanks, Chris.
- [41:46]
C
Thanks, man.
- [41:48]
B
That's dope.