← The Wolf Of All Streets
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- [00:01]
A
Wall street continues to make huge bets on Bitcoin and Ethereum. And Ray Dalio is once again joining the chorus, warning of an impending debt crisis, but this time saying that it's coming during this Trump term. Not putting very long dated guesses ahead of him, saying it's coming and it's coming soon. We're going to talk about this and all of the news that is relevant today with my friend Gareth Jo Jenkinson. Let's go.
- [00:29]
B
Let's do. Let's do.
- [00:44]
A
Good morning, everybody. It just occurred to me that in all the conversations I've had with today's guest, I'm not sure we've ever done it on the 9am Show. Is this the first time?
- [00:54]
C
It is the first time and I've been awake a lot longer than you.
- [00:56]
A
Horrible of me. That's horrible of me.
- [00:59]
C
I'll forgive you.
- [01:00]
A
All right, well, Gareth is the crack reporter over at Cointelegraph, among many other things, arguably the most on top of the news person that I know in the entire industry because it's his job, so perfect person to unpack all the things right now that are happening in markets right now. I think we can start with Ray Dalio, right? It's not like this is anything new. Ray Dalio says America's dead induced heart attack will happen under Trump 2.0 and no one's brave enough to stop it. Continuing on to saying that he does think crypto is here to stay, but maybe it could be really risky in the future. So not even convinced that crypto is the solution. Obviously a massive gold bug here. Listen, is this the boy who cried wolf?
- [01:49]
C
I think so. I mean, look, I don't think so. I think, you know, Ray's made some, some pretty encouraging remarks about Bitcoin in the past. So, you know, for him to come out and say this is probably really good for bitcoin and I mean more so for gold. If you go and like Google the headlines today, Scott, a lot of it is talking about, you know, gold as the hedge. And, you know, Ray sort of pointing to these safe, safe haven assets over holding loads of dollars just because of the inflationary nature of the dollar and how much it has been devaluing, especially in the last five years, the inflation rate and just the amount of new US Dollars that have been printed by the Federal Reserve in the last five years, it eclipses everything in the past, basically 50 years before that. So I think that these fears are warranted. But the question is, what is the ultimate safe haven asset? And I'm sure, we can chat about this a bit more as we go on, but it's raised some interesting questions about Bitcoin and gold as the hedge against a failing fiat currency system. And if you speak to some economists like we have been at Cointelegraph recently, some of them have suggested that bitcoin is great, it's a great store of value, it's a great savings tool, but maybe it's not a great money because of its finite supply. And when I first heard this argument I was kind of skeptical about it. But I also think in the lens of it being finite and therefore not manipulable in terms of the amount of supply or being able to change the amount of money in the system, you can't do that with bitcoin. And it requires a real paradigm shift that most people aren't willing to make and especially most policymakers and the people that are managing central banks around the world. So Ray saying this like sounding the alarm bells on soaring US Debt is nothing new really. Should we be fear mongering? To be honest, I think yes, I agree with that. It's the first time in a long time that people are kind of openly talking about it and really criticizing.
- [04:07]
A
Yeah, I mean, let's take a look at gold really quick. Holy crap. I mean, gold's trading at 3554, but this is a clean breakout above all time. Highs, major volume. Clearly something going on behind the background. I showed a chart on Monday, which I'm sure you've seen going around that shows that foreign central banks now hold more gold than Treasuries, which is leading a lot of people to kind of refuel the narrative that gold is now the reserve asset and not the dollar. So listen, maybe it takes a signal like this for people to start listening to the Ray Dalios of the world, but gold's clearly trying to tell the world something.
- [04:45]
C
Yeah, it definitely is. And as much as I'm a big proponent for bitcoin, when I read the bitcoin standard and the way that Safedin Amus, the author, ties bitcoin's value to gold in terms of explaining why it has value is very important. And once I kind of considered that, it made me realize that gold still probably the most important monetary tool outside of the fiat currency system by far, and it is a hedge. Most governments and central banks have a repository where they're holding a load of gold. No one's audited Fort Knox in a really long time. But we're led to believe that there's Tons and tons of gold there. And even though the dollar is not backed physically by gold, you can't go and redeem your dollars for gold. There is still supposed to be a significant holding of gold that is part of the U.S. strategic Reserve to have a hedge against something bad happening. I do think that a lot of countries around the world are starting to look for some sort of a hedge. And of course, gold has been around for so long, it's hard to mine more of it. It's hard to inflate its supply. So it has utility in real world commerce and industry. So a lot of people still hold it as a fantastic store of value. And we're at all time highs never seen before. So it speaks for itself. I think bitcoin catching up to that still requires a lot of education, right? Let's be honest, Scott, outside of our echo chamber in the bitcoin and cryptocurrency space, a lot of people still don't know what bitcoin is. I mean, I'll be honest with you. I've had a couple of family members message me in the last month saying, hey, it's finally time. I want to start investing in bitcoin.
- [06:33]
A
Oh, I'm short it, you know.
- [06:38]
B
But.
- [06:38]
C
It'S been 16 years since Bitcoin's been around. And, you know, suddenly people are saying.
- [06:42]
A
And you've been working in the industry for how long?
- [06:45]
C
Since 2017, you know, so many years. But I didn't, I didn't even understand the full value proposition of bitcoin up until like four years ago. And when I did, I was like, man, I'm an idiot, you know, and even I still feel like I'm late to the party and I, you know, I dollar cost average invest into bitcoin every month because I just want to acquire as many satoshis as I can so that I have enough of them when we move to a hybrid system where satoshis are money, you know, and I believe that that is the future in five to 10 years.
- [07:20]
A
Yeah. We talk about how few people still understand bitcoin or maybe have even heard of it. Right. I think as you said in our echo chamber, we take for granted that this is an everyday topic of conversation for everyone, because it isn't. But you have to imagine that the Trump family's involvement in it is bringing that much closer to reality. I can say it definitely is here for better or for worse, right? But in this case, breaking Trump mining company American Bitcoin will go public on the NASDAQ today. Today they hold 2400 Bitcoin worth 260 million. This is huge. I think they're going under Ticker A, B, T, C. We got some Gemini news, some ideas on how they're going to price their ipo, the raise the and when it's likely going to launch, which will be very, very soon. This is kind of the Wall street bets big on bitcoin part of the title. We're not seeing any slowdown in the adoption or at least exposure by Wall street in countless ways.
- [08:17]
C
No, not at all. Weirdly enough, I feel like the Ethereum treasury company Meta that's happened in the last month took a little bit of shine away from Wall Street's involvement in bitcoin and the inflows into Ethereum ETFs. Eclipsing Bitcoin ETFs again in the last month has taken away a bit of shine. But let's make no mistake about it. The sheer amount of capital still flowing into bitcoin is, is by and far above everything else. And you would be stupid to say that major institutions and Wall street in general is not piling into bitcoin. I think we're going to chat about it a little bit later on the show. But if you went and looked at like bitcointreasuries.net, you made mention of Trump's new. Or the Trump family's new mining operation that they set up in collaboration with Hut 8, going public today, holding a huge amount of bitcoin is starting to mine bitcoin. Trump media holds 15,000 bitcoin. You know, like the. I feel two ways about this. It's great for bitcoin.
- [09:25]
A
Billion dollars worth of Kronos token.
- [09:27]
C
Yeah, this is what I was going to say, Scott, is like, it's great for bitcoin that the Trump family are so bullish on bitcoin. But, you know, I've never met these people in person. I'm pretty skeptical by nature. I think what they've done is great for bitcoin and bitcoin adoption, but they're business people and they are spreading and hedging their bets across the entire industry. They're invested in bitcoin mining. They've got a media company that's basically employing a bitcoin strategic reserve. But then they're doing business with everyone else. They're pushing really hard with World Liberty Financial. Obviously that token dropped last week. There's been a lot of news about that. And yeah, they're just pushing forward on all fronts. They've got a Huge Kronos reserve, like you mentioned, with that partnership that came out with crypto.com last week as well launched. You know, they've got a huge stablecoin operation on World Liberty Financial. So they, they're doing a whole lot of different things in the industry, which is just smart business. And if you're going to be really critical and put your bitcoin maxi hats on, you're going to say these guys are being pretty disingenuous. But they're probably just going to say, hey, listen, we see the crypto industry as a holistic thing and we're doing what we can to help that along. So can you criticize them? Yes, but they've probably done a lot more for bitcoin in the last year than most other people have. Whether you like that or not, the.
- [10:50]
A
Beauty of bitcoin is when someone does something good for themselves, they do something good for bitcoin. Bitcoin is for enemies. The sort of ideal, everybody's self interest is aligned without harming the other people that are utilizing or buying bitcoin. That's always been the game theory that's been so brilliant and so unique to this asset. Even the idea that you would try to 51% attack it to control the network means that you would destroy the price and there'd be nothing left when you hacked it. Right. So there's literally zero incentive on any side for anyone to hurt bitcoin. And even people who want to outplay each other with the network or helping each other.
- [11:30]
C
Yeah, exactly. I completely, I completely agree with you. I, I think at this stage, everything and anything is good. And look, I've, I've got a lot of like bitcoin maxi friends, you know, Joe Hall. Joe Nakamoto's is probably chief among them. And you know, he, he's, he's very critical of a lot of things that are happening in the industry. And he doesn't like just number go up. But on the flip side of that, I've had many conversations with David Bailey. We chatted to Pete Rizzo yesterday, who's been in bitcoin journalism for longer than most. They've evolved with the industry and the institutionalization of bitcoin is just a process of all of this. And it also just takes me back to the conversations I had with people at Bitcoin Las Vegas. Jack Mellers, Dylan Niclaire. You don't get to choose who uses bitcoin and you don't get to choose how people use bitcoin. So some people are using it as a freedom tool in developing economies that are struggling with hyperinflation. They're using bitcoin as money. Wall street is using it as a financial instrument. Michael Saylor is rewriting everything with what he's done with strategy. I mean, like, if you want to bring back that list again, Scott, strategy has 636,000 bitcoin. The next closest company to that is Mara the miner with 50,000 Bitcoin. I mean, it's just, it's, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable.
- [12:55]
A
Here's strategies purchases. Good luck keeping up with these.
- [12:59]
C
I mean, no one's catching up with the amount of bitcoin that they have. But the interesting part of that is, like if you just looked at it on paper, you know, strategy sells business intelligence software. I've never used the software. I can't tell you if it's good or not. But some of the other companies on this bitcoin treasury list are great companies and they're just adding to the actual business case or their cash flow or their financials by holding onto a finite scarce asset that is now a proven store of value. So that's the interesting thing for me. Some of these companies are simply just using various vehicles to raise finance, whether that's through debt, to buy more bitcoin. Like strategy and Mara, like they're not exactly buying bitcoin. They're mining bitcoin and then they're holding it on their balance sheet.
- [13:46]
A
They also did the convertible notes to buy. This is true, it's a mix. But mostly they, they hodl what they what they mine as opposed to like an iron who basically sells it all as part of their business operations.
- [13:58]
C
Precisely, precisely. And I mean, some of these companies are still figuring it out, you know, like XXI, you know, 21 Capital, which headed up by Jack Mellors. You know, a lot of the bitcoin they have is seeded by Tether and Bitfinex. They haven't even announced what they're doing yet, you know, because I think they're still going through a lot of legal stuff in the background with the conversations I've had with the Tether guys and, and Jack himself. So we haven't even heard what they want to do yet. But I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot broader than just, you know, taking on debt and buying more bitcoin.
- [14:28]
A
We recently even saw a Treasury company delisted from the NASDAQ because they got over their skis and were actually unable to get close cleared for the operations. They were doing. I've heard quietly that that's been the case for a lot of treasury companies. They made big announcements, they got committed capital and then even this friendly SEC requires you to actually change your operations, which takes time. You can't just say one day I'm no longer a medical company, I'm a bitcoin buying company and start buying bitcoin. That's, you know, that's unfortunately a no no in the United States when you're regulated as a medical company and registered as such and all those things. So I've actually also heard privately that with some of these the investors are pretty pissed off because at the end I'm sure that time they actually they thought they would be able to transfer or their bitcoin in a tax efficient manner or very quickly buy it back if they couldn't do that. And what ended up happening was these raised when bitcoin was in the 80s or 90s that thousands they sold it and there's been no avenue to really recoup that. So you ended up with a lot of bitcoin sellers at much lower prices.
- [15:39]
C
I think it.
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A
And then the multiple after the launch compressed anyways, so.
- [15:43]
C
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was just going to say I think it's worth people realizing that there's a lot of affinity marketing going on here. And of course not all of these companies will earnestly do what they say they wanted to do or do it as well as someone like strategy or made a planet, you know. And I like the main a planet story is a fantastic one and very unique just given how things work in Japan. But that's a, that's a great example of like you can't copy that playbook everywhere and there are going to be some failings. And that's the goal though.
- [16:16]
A
Yes, the goal is so just to be clear for those who don't understand the treasury model, even the people who are the most bullish on the treasury model, like a Nakamoto for example, maybe a 21, I don't know, are investing in other treasury companies and leading that charge. They want the arbitrage of going into a market first and being the exposure to bitcoin that doesn't exist in public markets. Meta Planet is so successful to Garrett's point because if you buy and sell bitcoin you pay much higher taxes than if you buy or sell a stock. So gaining exposure to bitcoin through Meta Planet gives you like a 20% discount on taxes and they have the MicroStrategy 2020 thing where there's no ETF, no other vehicle, so they're the sole vehicle and you get better tax preference for buying it. So the future of bitcoin, treasury companies that really want to succeed is go find a market where people can't get exposure through the stock market to bitcoin, create something and if you could even get a tax benefit, even better. So it's just a really. They're a unicorn in Japan.
- [17:20]
C
They are a unicorn in Japan. And like, I just want to caveat that because, you know, I've always tried my best to, to ask fairly hard questions. And I guess the only person I haven't had a chance to speak to yet is Michael Saylor. But, you know, I asked Jack Mallows and Dylan Niclaire like, quite clearly, like, what are the, what are the risks here? And of course, taking on a load of debt, you know, is, is the risk and not being able to, to, to manage that debt. But the other thing you have to consider and, and one of the things I ask them is like, people in Japan that are buying Meta Planet shares, it is because of the way that the stock market works there and how they tax bitcoin trading. It's going to be the best way that you can buy and sell bitcoin through a proxy, essentially. But you never get to be part of the bitcoin ecosystem itself because you're not holding the bitcoin. And I said the same thing to Dylan Niclaire. I can buy made a Planet shares or I can buy 21 shares, or I can buy strategy shares, but I never have the bitcoin and it excludes me from that. And pretty much all of them are bitcoiners. And they were like, we're not sitting here saying buy our shares only if you want to use bitcoin, buy Bitcoin. But the fact of the matter is there's lots of places where you can't just buy Bitcoin. Or there are certain type of investors or companies, et cetera, that cannot buy and hold Bitcoin. So they need a proxy to do it. And this is that market that these companies are looking to serve. And again, it speaks to Bitcoin's sort of multifaceted use case, right? If you need to use it as money, you can use it as money. If you want to hold it as a savings asset and use it as store of value, you can use it as a store of value. Whether you buy the Bitcoin and hold itself, hold it itself, or you buy Meta Planet shares or strategy shares and you just hold onto those for a long period of time.
- [19:05]
A
I asked Jack the same question in Vegas, because within five minutes of walking into that conference, I was pitched 25 treasury companies. And at the time there were two. Right. It was Nakamoto and Strategy, and 21 had just announced. And yes, there were balance sheet companies like Tesla and Block, who obviously added. But as far as the financial engineering, buy more Bitcoin as the sole operating ethos, it was pretty new. And he was like, yeah, they'll go under, they'll go to a discount, and we'll just buy them. It's like the big ones will buy the small ones and life will go on. The thing I question, though, is, in the United States, I totally understand that there are a lot of different kinds of money that can or can't buy bitcoin in different ways, as you said. But if you can buy kindly MD Nakamoto stock or 21, you can buy a BlackRock ETF, which is actually more. I. I can't believe I'm saying this, because it's deciding who to trust, I guess. Right. And it is going to do it. But you could pretty much be sure that BlackRock's holdings are well audited, their fees are low, and you're tracking the price of bitcoin exceptionally well. With a Treasury company, you're trusting that they're going to financially engineer something to beat the others. Like, if you're at 1.7 Mnav and 2.5 Mnav, you're not tracking the price of bitcoin.
- [20:26]
C
No, you're not. And, like, for your viewers out there that don't really understand how that works, like, one of the reasons it took so long for Bitcoin ETFs to be approved is because the SEC has a load of rules, obviously, that you have to meet or the financial regulators in the United States. And one of them was having sort of a custodian that has fantastic financial tools that can measure the market. So keep tabs on how Bitcoin is trading, what the supply is like, what the volumes are like, what the volatility is like. And it took a long time for the market to mature enough to get to that point, and now we have it. Right? And pretty much all the Bitcoin ETFs use Coinbase as their custodian. So, to your point, Scott, like, if you're buying a Bitcoin etf, which is most of these financial advisors and those sort of things in America, they know that, look, there's an element of trust and this is supposed to be trustless, but if you don't have a choice and you can't just buy Bitcoin, you're probably going to go there and yeah, the treasury companies is a bit more of a risk app, like a bit more weighted towards risk. Even if you want to look at.
- [21:34]
A
MicroStrategy, we've seen what he's had to do, right. Since the ETFs were approved, he's had to find much more creative offerings and ways to keep the interest and to be able to buy more bitcoin. Right before BlackRock ETF was approved, you bought Micro Strategy or I guess GBTC or you bought Bitcoin. Those were your options, even as an American. So it's really interesting, the Ethereum treasury thing is mind blowing. I mean you kind of touched on it earlier, but I don't have the exact data in front, but I looked, it's not just August, so August, actually Bitcoin spot ETFs had outflows and the Ethereum ETFs had 3 or 4 billion net inflows. So that was a pretty big gap. But if you actually go out over the whole summer, June, July and August, Ethereum outpaced Bitcoin, by the way, I don't think that lasts. But what I do think is it's interesting to see the echoes of previous crypto cycles come to the stock market because this is exactly what used to happen. Bitcoin used to top. There'd be a bunch of interest in Ethereum for a little while and then the money flows back into Bitcoin and it flies. Interesting to see that with treasury companies. The thing is there's not 100 other assets represented by treasury companies now to trickle down from eth.
- [22:48]
C
Yeah, and I also just to this point, like myself and Robert Baggs, my co host of Cointelegraph's daily show Chain Reaction, we often talk, talk about this and like when Tom Lee from Bitmine and Fundstrat started buying ETH or announced this strategic Ethereum reserve with Bitmine. And for your viewers they hold 1.8 million ETH, which is a huge amount. Now it's $8 billion. I think if I'm looking at the numbers correctly, you can bring that up on Coingecko if you can find it quickly, Scott, but like Bitcoin is cut from a different cloth, right? I think most, most of your, your viewers are very well educated on the subject. But you know, Bitcoin is really a monetary protocol and you can look at Ethereum as much more of a sort of a new age Internet. Right. And, and ETH is the, is the oil that, that runs this Internet. You know, like Bitcoin's a commodity and I would, I would like, I'm not going to say ETH is a security, but it's a lot more similar to that than it is what Bitcoin is. So for these companies to be buying and holding Ethereum is really interesting to me. And just so your viewers understand, like Tom Lee was very bullish on Bitcoin for a very long time and now he's changed tech and he's gone there. Sharplink, which is the second on the list, there is a gaming company like a gambling company, Ethereum Foundation. Yeah. And Joe Lubin, who is the director of the board there now, was one of the co founders of Ethereum. He is the founder of Consensus. He has a very big vested interest in the future and success of Ethereum. And look, all these people believe in Ethereum and I'm not sitting here saying that Ethereum doesn't have value or isn't a useful protocol because I genuinely believe that it is a fantastic piece of blockchain software and it invented smart contracts. Right. We wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for Ethereum. And to see this kind of conviction is crazy and it actually makes me pretty optimistic for Ethereum as well. But I still don't think it's the same thing and I still find it crazy that they're willing to just grab this much Ethereum and put it into a Treasury. Like what are they going to do with it? What's the long term game plan here?
- [25:07]
A
I mean as I'm kind of mentally looking at this, right, you have MicroStrategy for looking at all of the treasury code. You got MicroStrategy bit mine I guess is second of all treasury companies and then the Kronos one would be third I believe, which is just crazy when you think about it.
- [25:22]
C
It's a huge amount and you have.
- [25:23]
A
A whole bunch of. Then you have a whole. Then you have Sharp Link and a lot of other Bitcoin treasury companies that'll be in the like 1 billion, 2 billion and down range. But with 8 billion, I mean this is massive. And you can tell Tom Lee's very smart, knew exactly what he was doing, he knew exactly what shot to take. And, and when he understood the cycles he saw when Ethereum was its most depressed, he came out, created a narrative that was really palatable for Wall street, which I actually don't necessarily even agree with, I don't think because of stablecoins that's the value of Ethereum. I think stable coins are commoditized across every chain and they'll all kind of accrue value as a result of that. But I mean, just crazy that he's gotten to 8 billion and that's all because he's taken on the sailor of Ethereum role. I mean, let's be honest, that's kind of what he said.
- [26:09]
C
Yeah. And just on this point, like the kind of future of Ethereum, we put together a small mini documentary while we were at ECC in Can a couple of months ago and that's on the Cointelegraph YouTube channel if you want to go and check it out. But I spoke to some of the big minds in the Ethereum space, including Tomasz Stanshak, who's one of the co directors of the Ethereum foundation, and there's definitely a lot of optimism about the future of Ethereum and and the likes of Robinhood launching a tokenization L2 that's running on Ethereum I think has played a lot into this narrative. But most of the conversations, like Sandeep Nelwell from Polygon hammering home the importance of there being 60 or 70% of all sort of stablecoin value or volume happening on Ethereum is a big use case. But then the future of RWA and tokenization happening on Ethereum, that's the as well.
- [27:04]
A
It is the biggest story. Listen, Tom Lee knows that. He just tells the story of stablecoins because it's the thing genius act passes. The entire world sees the Circle ipo. The entire world starts talking about stable coins. He says I'm investing in this thing because of stable coins. And they say oh, they believe it and they go But I mean to your point in mine earlier, stable coins are going to be everywhere and companies like Circle are launching their own blockchains. So we know why they're doing that. Right, because they don't want that to be on Ethereum or Tron or Aptos, which is their wherever else it's going to be. That's not their plan. Listen, I know we're kind of up against time. There is one more story I wanted to bring up and get your opinion on though because it's nice to see reasonable SEC and CFTC here. US regulators clarify rules for spot crypto trading. I don't need to get into all the nuance. There's all kinds of structures for exchanges to operate. This saying that national securities exchanges designated Contract markets and foreign boards of trade will be allowed to list spot crypto products or actually clarifying that they never weren't allowed to. I guess in theory, depending on how you read it. But this actually opens the door a for all the existing banks to offer spot crypto crypto services where maybe they couldn't. So it's clarified, go ahead. But there's also from the FBOTs, the foreign boards of trade. This kind of means that if a Binance or someone else comes in and registers, you don't need Binance and Binance US or FTX and FTX us. This has opened the door for Americans to trade on foreign exchanges.
- [28:40]
C
Yeah, it's a, it's massive news and, and like you say that's, that's been the biggest problem for the United States for the past 10 years basically and that's why everyone was scared to do business there. And, and frankly I remember having conversations even with Joe Lubin from Consensus like two years ago and I, I literally asked him, I was like, was there ever a time where you thought man, consensus needs to move out of, of the US and, and like he didn't explicitly say it but you know that you could feel that it was like, yes, it's so hard to do business here and it's so hostile that yes, we would rather go and do business somewhere else. And now it's like 360, well, 180 degree turn like hey, we're open for business. If you're a registered financial institution and you meet all the rules you can, like you don't even have to, you don't have to do much. You can just plug in some of the Software or the APIs into some of these exchanges and offer these services as you know, through custodians. So I think it's going to be a huge race for everyone to get back into the United States and you might just see a lot of these big players. I'm sure Binance are probably thinking really long and hard now about going back to the US.
- [29:53]
A
Sort of operates. I think it's a thing again to some degree. I don't know if anyone, it's like twice.
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C
Once, but twice. Yeah, precisely. I mean, are you going to go and use them when they launch again? I don't know but I think the.
- [30:07]
A
Cgc, I wouldn't use Binance US but if Binance the, the actual Binance was available to me as an American, there are definitely things I would use it for. I wouldn't use it as my customer, but I Don't. I don't know, hold my Bitcoin. But I would trade there.
- [30:20]
C
You tell me. I. I think like, Americans are spoiled for choice now. You got Coinbase, Robinhood, Kraken. I mean, those three names just come come to mind.
- [30:30]
A
We have a lot. But I still think there's things that if you're not down the decks, rabbit hole, that you can't trade in the United States or that you're still not comfortable that you won't get in trouble for down the road or something. But also, I mean, it's nice to have choices, you know, Like, I know like OKX has been talking about going public in the United States and they had ok Coin and they were trying to launch, you know, there's a President of the United. Of the US operations. This might give a lot of clarity where these companies can basically fold whatever they were planning separately in the United States into the international operations. But who knows, right? That doesn't mean still that everything would be available to us because we still don't necessarily have security versus commodity clarification. All those things a lot.
- [31:10]
C
But you should have it to be answered, right?
- [31:11]
A
Yeah. I think there's a lot more questions still to be answered, but these are huge steps in the right direction. And when do you get the SEC and CFTC making statements together? They've been as contentious as regulators have been with the crypto industry. They've been equally contentious with one another in the battle for whose turf this is. So it's really encouraging.
- [31:31]
C
Yeah, it is, it is. I mean, I honestly, I've said this all year. I'm very jealous of everyone living in the United States. I'm in the Netherlands. Like a lot of stuff happens in Europe, but it just seems like everything is happening in the US right now and kind of wish I was a journalist working there, but I'm here for now.
- [31:48]
A
Did you miss the memo that we were making America great again over here? Clearly, clearly. Obviously. All right, Gareth, man, I kept you over time. Thanks so much for joining. Great to finally have you. We'll have to make this a more regular thing.
- [32:03]
C
Definitely.
- [32:03]
A
Thanks for Gareth to start hosting shows over here, but he's got bigger plans than. Than me.
- [32:09]
C
No, no, no, Definitely not. But it's good to be here and. Yeah, invite me again, Scott. I'm always happy to come and chat.
- [32:15]
A
You're. You're always welcome. Good to. Good to get you into the cadence here. It'll become a regular thing. Thank you so much, man. And guys, give Gareth a follow and obviously check out all his work at Cointelegraph and he has a daily show himself, so you should be checking that out.
- [32:29]
C
Cheers, guys.
- [32:30]
A
Thanks, Gareth. Have a good one. All right, guys. Funny that we were talking about stablecoins because before we jump to Chris, we have our weekly Wednesday with ap, who is number three in usdt. As I said, they are the third blockchain right now for stablecoin transactions, specifically with usdt. Working directly with Circle here, as you can see. And of course doing all of these things. I tell you about them every week. We don't talk about the token at all. We talk about the tech and what's being built on aptos and it's pretty incredible when you take a look at how much they're doing. I still believe the world's going to be interoperable. I definitely don't think Ethereum is going to be the only one. And I think that this could be one of the big winners. So if you are a developer or, you know, interested in building something in crypto, take a look over there at our good friends over at Aptos. And without further ado, the man, the myth, the legend whose mic may or might not work on any Wednesday, Any given Wednesday, there's that movie. Any given Sunday. We're gonna call this Any given Wednesday Talk. Proof of life.
- [33:42]
B
Hello. It's a lie, you know, it's so bad. It's so bad. It's. It's only. And for whatever reason, it's only this show.
- [33:53]
A
It's been a while. We're gonna stop making it a thing. It's fine.
- [33:56]
B
Well, and then it'll come and do it right. So it is what it is.
- [33:59]
A
We'll work across that bridge across the jump the creek.
- [34:04]
B
That's right. How you doing, man?
- [34:07]
A
I'm doing good, doing good. You know, just enjoying the gold. All time highs. Feeling a little tinge of Peter Schiff, you know, feel a little shifty.
- [34:18]
B
Have you seen silver?
- [34:20]
A
That's a 1440 bucks, man.
- [34:22]
B
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I had that target, so it looks like we might actually get there. The gold, you know, gold, gold was just this large triangle. It's been consolidating forever in a day and man, oh man, we finally got that breakout. It looks good. I'm excited about it. But you know bitcoin, right? Yeah.
- [34:46]
A
It's not doing much at this moment, but that's okay. It is looking like that spring you were promising us last week.
- [34:51]
B
Potentially. Potentially. Right? Yeah. So for me, really, I mean, we're. I, I don't like the way that it's kind of hanging out here, it hasn't really kind of taken off back into the range yet, but really just kind of looking for a daily candle. Impulsive, you know, breakout and close really above this monthly pivot here at 113, 329. If we can get that, that's going to say, you know what, this is probably the low and we're ready to head higher. Breaking out above that 117, 440 area, depending what chart you're looking at, is going to add confidence to that. And so I mean, if we just look for a simple price action target based on the height of this pullback here, that gives us a 135,6 target, $135,611 target. But if it's doing what I think it's doing, I'd actually be looking up closer to 155,000 really is kind of the next move up in there. So I, you know, I like the way we're set up here. If we jump over the weekly. Come here, as you can see, we've got weekly is resetting down and oversold with the stochastic RSI there, RSI remaining bullish above neutral here. You know it. We were looking for a bullish cross next here above the sma, but overall and see if we can get that pulled out there. I'm not hating the weekly. Realistically, as, as far as pivots go, we came back here, you know, we kind of came in sideways between the yearly pivot and the yearly R1, pulled back, found support at the yearly pivot, rallied up to the R1, which is what we look for. And then we usually look for a pullback, you know, if we've got this sideways action toward that. So we've got it here and then we've got it here and so we've kind of pulled back toward that. So I mean, realistically, if I'm looking at this, I'm not, not really hating it at all. Even if we were to come down further, you know, I think it would freak everybody out if we were to come down to a hundred thousand or something like that. But honestly, nothing really, really scary about that at all for me. At least not on the macro time frame. Right. You know, I'm not one of those guys who's looking at the daily time frame for a multi years, you know, cycle of movement and saying, oh my God, the top's in. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But right now, definitely Want to see this breakout and you know, nice impulsive break. I want to see some volume, largest daily candle kind of breaking through that113,329 area and closing above it. As my first real kind of, I guess my first bit of confirmation that that low may be in here. But you know, if we do break down below our swing low here, first target is this 105, 907 area and then second target below, if it continues down is this 102, 380 and a half area. So I mean it really is just kind of, you know, a sit and wait to see if we can get that movement up. If you're not already in it. There was a lot of reason to be in long down here. Let me zoom in here a little bit. You've got this nice range right here and then you have this spring, this little dip just below the low there and it went up. So I mean there was every reason in the world, you know, if, if you follow along with what I teach, why you should have been in down in this area. But if you're not now, you know, we did get this nice good bit of volume spike there. Decent candle spread comparatively as we broke out here above the found support around whatever around this pivot. So you know, we'll see if we can get this move up here. I'm looking forward, we'll see if we can do it. But until then, you know, you still want to be, you know, you still want to be careful in there as far as, you know, if you're a shorter term trader, if you're not, even though, if you're not like looking a year plus out or something like that, you want to get a little bit more confirmation.
- [38:51]
A
So what else are you looking at in the meantime?
- [38:55]
B
So in the meantime, let's see here. I've got a few all charts here I'm kind of really interested in. This is lqty USD liquidy.
- [39:05]
A
That's not real. You made that up.
- [39:08]
B
Well, it's there, but here on the week or here on the daily, I mean I love the volume coming out of this nice big volume on this breakout through this area here. I think we kind of get this, this run up here toward probably about, you know, 80, about 89, 90 cents here right prior to the yearly pivot. So I think we get a movement up there and then a pullback down toward maybe like 81 cents and then we get the real breakout. That's my setup I'm looking at at the moment here. So you know, if you wanted to go long, I would expect it to get rejected around this 89.90 area. But then I would look to potentially go long again right around 81 cents here. And that would, you know, set off for the big move up through here and kind of head up higher, in which case then, you know, we'd look for this to continue up here past A$36 and kind of continue its move up. So really a nice reset here if we can get that. That movement up there, the pullback set up for that breakout. I have ondo here. Ondo. I'm liking the breakout here. We're getting some follow through this morning on this. And so really looking for a breakout above 102 1.02955 now. And getting that is to me is going to likely say that that low is most likely in here. And you know, I'll be looking for this target up here at around $2.34 as my next target up there. So, you know, with this one here, we've got what appears to be a nice spring down here. Rally up a pullback. Rally up, pullback. And so it's that wave three, that participation wave that gets us with Wyckoff, what we call our jump across the creek, which is just that push through the. The supply, which is clearly sitting, you know, right in this area here. So that wave three should give us that breakout, that jump across the creek and have us looking up there toward again that $2.34 and a half 34 cent areas as the next kind of target. On the way up onto had some.
- [41:16]
A
Big news too yesterday. I can't remember what it was, but yeah, they did have a big news story. I mean, they're really legit. That's not like whatever those other letters.
- [41:23]
B
You put up there are LQ2 LQTY saying too many letters.
- [41:29]
A
LQTY no posts on their twitter since 2023. Lol. Doesn't mean you can't trade it.
- [41:34]
B
Exactly. Exactly. You know, people are worried too much. Especially I think with crypto, people are so focused on there has to be a narrative. Well, not usually in crypto. You know, crypto's kind of funny that way. You know, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna say things that most people hate to hear, which is pretty much everything in crypto is there to be traded on, you know, on. On the charts. Most of this stuff is not going to be there. There's gonna be a lot of new other. A lot of other new Stuff that's a bunch of crap that's going to come out and take its place. Right.
- [42:09]
A
How dare the nerve.
- [42:10]
B
So. But it is what it is, you know, it's there. It's to trade. Are you here to make money? Are you here to pretend like whatever it is that you're interested in really is going to make some differences?
- [42:18]
A
I heard lqty is curing cancer.
- [42:22]
B
Well, don't be saying stuff like that. They're gonna hold you to that and.
- [42:25]
A
Then, you know, that's what I heard. Heard it was the next big thing in medicine. Important company I've got. Just waiting to tweet. They're just waiting to tweet till they have go ahead. Sorry.
- [42:38]
B
STX here is another one. I've got. We've got kind of this consolidation heading here. I think we've got like a one two and potentially a one two here. I like the breakout we're starting to get here. We had some good volume. You can kind of see it here at that swing low and then we had similar volume on the next one here, pushing up and now we're pushing up. So I'd like to see this volume kind of increase as we're continuing up here. But initially what I'm looking for is a daily candle, impulsive breakout and close above this monthly pivot at 68 cents. We can get that. I'm feeling pretty good that that low may be in and we're probably headed up higher. Breaking out then above this $0.81 area is going to add some confidence to that idea. And based on this, you know, I'll be looking up here toward A$95 and a half as that next kind of upside target there. So, you know, about 300.
- [43:34]
A
I own some stacks. I think I'm in from roughly 90 cents. So that's a really nice. From a long time ago, but that's a nice price. I would like that. I like those guys.
- [43:43]
B
You've had multiple options, you've had multiple opportunities at 90 cents.
- [43:49]
A
Long, long, long, long term holder. Good, passionate community member.
- [43:54]
B
Right?
- [43:54]
A
Passionate community member. Whatever, man.
- [43:58]
B
But yeah, yeah, I mean it looks like the setup is here, but again, you know, I talk about this often. You know, setups can look like they're there all they want. You need that follow through. You need to get through those areas of confirmation. So again, for me, breaking out through here is the first bid, the second move is that, you know, impulsive breakout and close of a daily candle above that 68 cent area. And then the third step, you know, to Add even more confidence to it, be that breakout above $0.81 here. But you know, I mean, realistically, if you're, if you're trading correctly, you can sit here, let me see, you can probably get in. Yeah. Stupid Mouse. 0.55. Let's pull this up a bit here. You could probably get in about where it's at here. If you're using proper risk management the way I teach it, and you've got a pretty good chance for potentially, what is that? About a 21 and a half R from entering here, heading up to that target. Two dollars and sixty six and a half cents would be the next target after that. That would even potentially give you a 33R return. So, I mean, yeah, 20 $33 return for every dollar that you risk here. But you have to use proper risk management. It's not like you go all in here. No, stop loss. Don't know what you're doing. You know, you want to limit your risk as appropriate. But man, oh man, that return, you know, it's hard to be upset about that kind of return, though some people will. What do you mean? It's not going to do 100x in one day? Yeah, that's what I mean.
- [45:31]
A
But why not?
- [45:33]
B
Because that isn't the way the world generally works.
- [45:36]
A
Whatever. Whatever, man.
- [45:39]
B
But yeah, so that's what I've got here. Those are the kind of ones I'm really looking at here. But again, you know, as I've been talking about the last few weeks, you know, much of your alts look the same. So if you're seeing similar patterns as what I'm showing here on. On different alts. On alts, maybe you're interested in. If you're not interested in these, treat them the same way, look for the same kind of movement to get it. And you, you know, you can look for that same kind of idea.
- [46:05]
A
Good.
- [46:06]
B
That's it.
- [46:08]
A
Liquidy. Liquid. Liquidy.
- [46:10]
B
Liquidy.
- [46:11]
A
Yeah, Liquidity. Liquid.
- [46:13]
B
I want to say liquidity, but it says liquidy.
- [46:15]
A
So it's liquidy. I think it's liquidy. I have heard of it, I think along the way somewhere. All right, guys, give Texas West Capital, TX West Capital. Follow on X. We're glad we've had these few weeks of uninterrupted bliss without technical issues. We're going to keep it going. Give Aptos. Give Aptos a look and we'll see you next week. Thank you, man.
- [46:35]
B
Take care. Let's do. Let's do.