The Word on Fire Show – Episode 498: How to Strengthen Catholic Identity in Catholic Schools

Date: July 14, 2025
Host: Matthew Picusik
Guest: Bishop Robert Barron

Overview

This episode of The Word on Fire Show addresses the pressing concern of Catholic identity in Catholic schools. Host Matthew Picusik and Bishop Robert Barron explore what constitutes authentically Catholic education, how schools have sometimes deviated from their Church-ordained mission, and practical steps to renew, safeguard, and integrate Catholic ethos across all levels of Catholic educational institutions. The conversation ranges from philosophical principles to concrete policy recommendations and responds directly to cultural challenges facing Catholic schools today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Strengthen Catholic Identity? (00:01–03:27)

• Many Catholic schools, both K-12 and higher education, lack a strong Catholic identity, sometimes promoting values antithetical to Church teaching.
• Examples: Fundraisers for organizations that contradict Church morals, parents establishing independent academies due to dissatisfaction.
• Bishop Barron’s background: Grew up in Catholic schools, witnessed the shift from religious to lay teaching staffs.

Quote (Barron, 03:49):
"The most significant, as everyone points out, is the transition from a time when Catholic schools were largely staffed by sisters and brothers and people with an explicit vocation in the church to largely lay led... That's probably the largest change.”

2. What Makes a School Catholic? Evangelization as the Core (05:28–07:36)

• Catholic identity is not peripheral: Evangelization—proclaiming Christ and inviting others into Church life—must be the animating principle for all Catholic institutions.
• Schools should close if evangelization is not their central ethos.

Quote (Barron, 05:44):
“What makes a Catholic institution Catholic is it’s declaring the lordship of Jesus and inviting people to share his life in the Church. So if our Catholic hospitals don’t do that, they should close. If our Catholic schools don’t do that, they should close.”

3. The Catholic Approach to Core Academic Disciplines (07:36–13:54)

Mathematics (07:54–09:28)

• Math exposes students to the reality of immaterial truths, which undermines materialism and points toward the transcendent.
• Mathematics embodies "created invisibilities"—a gateway to discussing realities beyond the material.

Quote (Barron, 07:54):
"Mathematics introduces you to a higher world, indeed a world that can’t be seen...they’re created invisibilities. But we affirm that every time we recite the creed."

Science (09:41–12:09)

• Science presupposes that the world is intelligible—a profoundly religious idea asserting divine intelligence as the source of order and logic in nature.
• True science and authentic faith cannot contradict, as both are rooted in the truth of God.

Quote (Barron, 09:41):
"All science rests upon the idea that the material world as we know it is radically intelligible...That’s a religious idea."

Humanities (Literature & History) (12:09–13:54)

• Literature reveals the human pursuit of ultimate meaning and longing for God; great Christian artists and novelists engage the world's brokenness because of their deep faith.

Quote (Barron, 12:13):
"Religion corresponds to the deepest desire of the heart...all beautiful things speak finally of the source of all beauty."

Encountering Worldliness and Sin in Education (13:54–15:16)

• Catholic confidence enables openness to the world, not fearful retreat.
• Exposure to sinful realities (as in literature) is not sheltering; rather, it's equipping students to confront and understand sin with faith’s perspective.

Quote (Barron, 14:19):
"I think a Catholic sensibility makes you confidently open to the world in all of its dimensions..."

Religion & Theology (15:18–16:55)

• Religion must permeate all subjects; it cannot be "one subject among many."
• The aim is to foster an ethos that suffuses every discipline, just as God permeates all things non-competitively.

Quote (Barron, 15:23):
"Don’t treat it as one subject among many...allow religion to pervade all of those disciplines."

4. The Unifying Principle: Christ the Logos (16:55–17:55)

• Jesus Christ, as the Logos, is the unifying core of all learning and teaching.
• Drawing from St. Bonaventure and Newman, the episode argues for Christocentrism in Catholic education.

Quote (Barron, 17:04):
"It’s Jesus...Christ the center of the sciences. That’s a medieval idea, right?"

5. How Did Schools Lose the Narrative? (17:55–21:13)

• The decline began when religion became marginal or isolated, losing its unifying, pervasive function.
• Anecdotes reveal that some school administrators prioritize facilities and academic programs over spiritual life.

Quote (Barron, 19:04):
"If our Catholic schools don’t do that, they should close. The church doesn’t need to be sponsoring one more STEM school, one more public school..."

6. Dangers of “Ghettoizing” Catholic Identity (21:14–23:07)

• Catholic studies departments or mission offices risk relegating faith to a minor segment of the campus, rather than enabling it to permeate everything.
• Religious witnesses among faculty (e.g., habited sisters) previously helped unify school life.

Quote (Barron, 21:29):
"It becomes this one little discipline among many, but not affecting the whole life of the place."

7. Integration of Clergy and Religious in School Life (23:07–24:36)

• Priests and vowed religious should be visibly present and engaged in the daily life of Catholic schools.
• Their presence provides living testimony to faith's compatibility with all study.

Quote (Barron, 23:12):
"Your presence means the world to those kids...that you’re there precisely as the priest, as the pastor, and that you’re in that school, you believe in it. That’s hugely important."

8. Catholic Identity in Higher Education (24:36–26:09)

• Catholic universities should not mimic secular ones with superficial Catholic elements—faith must deeply inform all aspects of academic life.

Quote (Barron, 24:57):
"No, that’s a dodge. That’s ridiculous...[Catholic identity] applies, I think, even a fortiori in a university setting."

Frequently Asked Questions and Policies (26:09–34:44)

On Gender Ideology (26:09–28:00)

• Policy: Catholic schools must not adopt or promote gender ideology, use non-biological pronouns, nor display LGBTQ symbols in contradiction to Catholic teaching.
• Approach: Love and infinite dignity for all individuals, but truth requires opposition to ideologies repugnant to Catholic anthropology.

Quote (Barron, 26:34):
"No. And we have protocols in my diocese...we love everybody...but it’s appropriate to use that word, ideology. There’s an ideology that is repugnant to our anthropology..."

Mass Attendance (28:00–30:15)

• Weekly Mass is strongly recommended; it sacramentally expresses and reinforces Catholic identity.

Quote (Barron, 28:06):
"We have [Mass] once a week here in our diocese, which I think is good. The Mass is the source and summit of the Christian life."

Welcoming Non-Catholics (30:15–31:14)

• Non-Catholic students are welcome but must understand that participation in Catholic rites is intrinsic to the school’s life.

Quote (Barron, 30:32):
"Don’t come to Catholic school. If you’re coming to a Catholic school, you should expect that you’re going to do Catholic things."

Eucharistic Adoration in Schools (31:14–31:50)

• Encouraged where feasible, at the discretion of local administrators.

Quote (Barron, 31:35):
"If it’s feasible and it’s something that corresponds to prudence, why not?"

Non-Catholics Teaching Theology (32:00–32:36)

• Sometimes permitted, but only in exceptional cases with strict conditions of fidelity to Church teaching.

Quote (Barron, 32:00):
"I think it’s acceptable, but as an exception and with the right provisos in place..."

Statements of Faith for Faculty (32:36–33:04)

• Schools should require teachers to contractually agree to teach and live according to the faith.

Quote (Barron, 32:46):
"Yeah, sure. Absolutely...you can’t be teaching against Catholic doctrine, and you can’t live in a way that's repugnant to our teaching..."

Homeschooling and Parish School Relationships (33:12–34:44)

• Dialogue and mutual support between homeschooling families and parish schools are encouraged to avoid isolation and sectarianism.

Quote (Barron, 33:12):
"I’d like to see as much dialogue and connection as possible...maybe each one influencing the other to some degree."

Reforming or Departing from Schools (34:44–36:18)

• Reform from within should be attempted first; if a school systematically spreads teachings contrary to the Church, parents may need to seek alternatives or start anew.

Quote (Barron, 35:10):
"If a Catholic school is indeed advocating for things that are repugnant to Catholic life and teaching, yeah, that's a sign of a deep rot has set in..."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "[Religion] should be the dominant ethos of the institution... Are we evangelizing here?" (Barron, 05:44)
• "Mathematics... introduces you to a higher world... they’re created invisibilities." (Barron, 07:54)
• "All science rests upon the idea that the material world is radically intelligible. That's a religious idea." (Barron, 09:41)
• "Don’t treat [religion] as one subject among many...allow religion to pervade all of those disciplines." (Barron, 15:23)
• "No, and we have protocols in my diocese...we love everybody...but...there’s an ideology that is repugnant to our anthropology." (Barron, 26:34)
• "Don’t come to Catholic school. If you’re coming to a Catholic school, you should expect that you’re going to do Catholic things." (Barron, 30:32)

Listener Question: Loving God as Love Itself (36:18–38:10)

Question from Bill (36:29):
If love is "to will the good of the other as other," how do we love God, who is love itself?

Barron's Response:

• We can't add to God's good; rather, we rest in and conform ourselves to the pure good that God is.
• Worship and praise don't benefit God, but sanctify us.

Quote (Barron, 36:29):
"When you love God, God doesn’t need anything. God has no lack...You’re loving the good that God is. Your will is resting in the good that God is."

Takeaways for Listeners

• Catholic education has a unique mission: evangelization through the permeation of faith into every subject and school activity.
• Recovering true Catholic identity requires confident, non-compartmentalized faith, visible witnesses among faculty, centrality of the sacraments, and clear boundaries in curriculum and policy.
• Reforms should prioritize dialogue but not shy away from starting anew where schools have lost their Catholic character.
• The episode provides both philosophical foundation and practical tools for leaders, parents, and teachers seeking to foster faithful, vibrant Catholic schools.