B (3:28)

Well, and we, we do this often. I mean this is the whole point, right? Is you, you find the type of work somebody enjoys and then you release them to do that work. And so, you know, I remember we worked with somebody who came in thinking their type was a, you know, a certain type and we started giving them work as if, oh this, you'll love this stuff and you'll be great at it and we'll enjoy it and we'll, we know what to expect from you as a result of your working genius. And that type. And I love like the way you described it, there's, it creates a lot of friction, both interpersonally and as your friction as, as it relates to like your ability to get work done because you're, you have these certain expectations like oh, this should go. Not that we're pigeonholing people into their types, but knowing what they're, how they're wired and then giving them work in that inside that framework should be like friction free. And sometimes when you're experiencing that, it's worth going back and saying, do we have it wrong?

A (4:23)

Yeah. I was trying to think of an analogy, and one that just came to mind was imagine if you went to somebody and they said, I love ice cream. And you're like, really? Oh, I want to make you happy. I'm going to give you ice cream. And then you found out they were, like, deathly lactose intolerant, and every time you gave it to them, it got sick, and you were like, dude, I don't think you like ice cream. And so sometimes when a person now they might like it and it makes them sick, that's different. But the point here is, when you think you know what somebody's type is, you want to allow them to work in that genius.

B (4:56)

And.

A (4:56)

And so you give them opportunities to do this. And you go to meetings and you have conversations wanting to draw out their genius. And when it's not really their genius, it causes you to. It makes you feel frustrated about yourself, like, what am I doing wrong? How come I can't draw this person out and please them as a colleague or an employee? And until you. And then I've had people where I missed the boat on who they were. And then when I finally. When they come back and they go, hey, you know, I redid the test, or I really thought about it and I was answering it because of the way I was in my old job or what my parents said, and I'm really one of these. And it'll be like I'm looking at them for the first time.

B (5:34)

Yeah.

A (5:34)

I'm like, oh, that totally makes sense. And now I'm completely interacting with them differently, appreciating them differently and connecting with them. And it just. I think it surprised you and I how uncomfortable and out of place it can be when we have the wrong idea about a person. Yeah.

B (5:51)

And I think that's why it's worth a whole podcast, Pat, is because the. The implicit, like, the outcome of that can be really damaging, both in relationships and at work. And because there's a little bit of nuance. You know, I was just in a room last week doing a working genius session for a group of, like, 25 leaders. And I remember I got done presenting the model, and somebody said, yeah, we did this on my team. And they're. The thing that we were confused by is we have this other person. Turns out this person was actually in the room, but she was speaking, like, sort of in generalities and saying, like, it says he doesn't have galvanizing but he's a great speaker. And so we, you know, we were, we were really trying to understand, like, how that works. And so it turns out as we kind of, you know, go through the layers of what working genius is, the idea that, like, speaking is not speaking is not speaking. Depending on who does it the way you do speaking is invention and discernment, like, you coming up with new ideas. Well, as we got further down the line in the day and some of the content, that guy ends up saying, hey, I'm the guy she was talking about earlier. What I realized is when I speak, I have enablement. And I love watching people, like, win. Like, I want to coach them, I want to cheer them on. Like, and so his, the way he was approaching that. And so I say all this because of the nuances of, like, how people can misinterpret even their own actions that can lead to mistyping somebody because they could be like, oh, you're a great speaker. You must have galvanizing. And so, so much of this conversation is saying, like, no, no, no. What is it about that activity that you love? It might appear on the face of it that it's, you know, one of the other letters, but the reason that you do it and the reason you enjoy it can be totally different. If you get those wrong, it can be really limiting.

A (7:33)

Yeah. And I believe people have asked me this on stage. I know I've said this from stage before. Like, if you don't have galvanizing, but you like speaking, it looks like you're galvanizing.

B (7:42)

Yeah.

A (7:43)

And I said, oh, no, I can do it once, but if I had to remind you tomorrow and the next day and keep you going, it would drive me crazy. So I love getting up and, and, and trying to inspire people with ideas and judgment, which is why I love taking questions. But the idea of having to get them to do something that they don't want to do is anathema to me. And that's very different than giving a speech.

B (8:06)

Yeah. And I think that's why we called it square peg, round hole Pat is the idea that, like, you really want to. Obviously, you know, the, the report itself is very accurate. So if you take the question, if you, if you answer the questions as if it's joy and energy, honestly, it's not your environment that's affecting you. Typically, you know, you're going to get really accurate results. But then the second layer is just the face validity of what you're reading and experiencing in your own body and in your own wiring. Right. So, like, in that same room, I got to one of the tables. So out of 25 people, everyone mostly agreed with their results. And I got to one table and the guy was like, this feels off to me. And I said, oh, well, read these one. These one sentence descriptions about the combo and let's see if we can change one of your letters. And when we finally got to the appropriate letter, it was like, oh, yeah, that's it. That, you know, it was like this, this moment where he was like, oh, that feels more right to me. And so, but. But if you just get this, and this is what happens tragically for so many people is you get the results if they're wrong or somebody mistypes you. Like, let's say somebody knows working genius and they say, oh, I think you're this, and you're trying that on and it doesn't fit, but you're forcing it. It's going to lead to a lot of friction and pain both in your life and in the work that you do.

A (9:22)

Yeah, I think about all those tests that people get in high school that are just so bad and they're like, fill this out. You should be a janitor or an astronaut. You know what I mean? And first of all, they're ridiculous. All of my kids have done them. And we just laugh about it because it didn't really. But imagine that you actually said, I guess that's. I guess I have to major in that, and I guess I have to do that. And it's not accurate. And that's what sometimes happens when we fill this out in a way. And no, no test, no assessment is going to be 100% accurate for all kinds of reasons. We have our own biases. And some of them, like, one of them that I think is really interesting is a lot of people with W have never really felt like they were supposed to acknowledge that they had W. And so. And in fact, I've known a few people that had taken the test and didn't see their W. And then we went through it, they're like, actually, I'm that. And then it all made sense to them. So there's certain kinds here that people tend to underestimate a little bit. And until they really land on the right one, they don't feel that sense of liberation that they need to have. And W is a really interesting one because. Cause when I think about the people I know that have taken this and told me the wrong type, you know, I think I'm. I guess it says I'm this oftentimes it's the W that's missing. And they're asking tons of questions, and it's like, are you sure you're not a W? And then they look at and they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm totally a. Wow. When you don't think a person's a W and they're asking questions and they're kind of doubting things and wondering about things, it can actually be annoying. And then once you recognize they're a W, you're like, oh, that's so great to understand. And you can actually embrace something about them joyfully that 15 minutes earlier you were kind of annoyed by.

B (11:11)

Yeah, I love that, Pat. Like, the practicality of pointing out what letters are most often confused. So, like, wonder is definitely one of them. The other one I've seen is enablement. Because somebody with enablement, as you're asking, like, they're so. They have such a desire to help and serve. They're like, well, I guess if you need me to be an inventor, I could do invention. Or if you need me to galvanize, I'll do that for you. I'll make sure that you don't have to do that. You know, so they can kind of be a chameleon in their desire to serve and help and be helpful. And so they can you know, even kind of slide into some of those other. Other letters unknowingly, when really the. The crux of who they are is really that enablement. Genius.

A (11:49)

Yes. You know what's interesting? Because sometimes people. People for the wrong reasons, can be a little stubborn about their thing. Like, we've talked to people that have a deep spiritual life, and so they. They think discernment has to be one of their things because they're like, well, I can discern the gifts of the spirit. Different things like that. And of course, it's a different thing. That word discernment is very different. It's about gut feeling, instinct, looking at things, pattern recognition, all that. And I've had people be stubborn and go, no, I have discernment. I have discernment. And a great way to talk them out of it, if that's appropriate, is to help them realize. If you claim that as one of your geniuses, because you want to have it, but you don't, you're going to annoy the crap out of people because they're going to assume that when you say, my gut is telling me this, that you have, that it's not a good thing to market yourself as having a genius that you don't have.

B (12:43)

Right.

A (12:43)

And it's really, really, really good to get this right so that when you go to a person, they can completely understand you, put you to the best use and have patience and grace for your areas that aren't genius. But when you advertise yourself as having a genius, you don't. It's harder for people to give you grace.

B (13:05)

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Like, to sell yourself as something else is a lose, lose. It's a lose for the person on the other side of the sale. And then they're asking you to do something that you have claimed you like and are good at, but in reality, you. You're frustrated by or they're drained by every time you do it. So I love the. I love the wisdom. And just being like, yeah, don't. That would be like me going on the first date with my wife and be like, you know what I'm great at is checking things off lists and doing the lawn care, you know, and then having to live up to that expectation for the rest of our marriage. That would be terrible, you know, or.

A (13:39)

Better yet, and never seen anything inappropriate or making jokes. We didn't talk about that last night. About how our wives are like, don't say that. In mixed company. And we're like, sorry, sorry. Imagine going home to a basketball court and going, okay, we're picking teams. We need another. A shooter. And a guy's like, oh, I'm a great shooter. And then you put him on the team, he can't shoot at all. And you're going to be like, kind of pissed off.

B (14:02)

Yeah.

A (14:02)

And if a guy came and said, hey, I'm good at rebounding, I play great defense. Don't expect me to shoot. And he, he shoots and misses, you're going to go, yeah, you said that. But when you try to portray yourself as being good at something you're not, it is so bad for you and for everybody else around you.

B (14:16)

Well, I think that's a great. A better analogy because one, it's on a team, and so there's these expectations for everybody else. And two, it's observable. So. So, like, if somebody says, hey, I'm great at shooting, and then we watch you play basketball, it's the same on a team. And saying like, well, I really like tenacity. And the team members around you are watching you not finish projects and not push things over the finish line. And. And it's both frustrating to, to you and to them. So I love the idea that, like, if you're if you're overselling it or you're, you're, you're even wrong. Just like whether you're selling it or you just have received it and you're wrong, your team is should know. And this is why we eventually get there. Pat, like, with, with people we've worked with, that doesn't feel like the right fit. It's like it's repeatedly looking at work or projects that we do and saying like, well, it's not that we're typecasting someone. It's like if you had that, you would have done this differently, you would have enjoyed this more. We would have gotten further, faster, like, those sort of things. It's an observable thing to realize that somebody's type is not exactly accurate.

A (15:21)

You know what's interesting, it just made me think about the fact that we were looking at some data yesterday around the most recent people that have taken working genius, like almost 300,000. And it said that the least frequent one of them is galvanizing. People say that it's far more common that other people report different types. And galvanizing is one of the ones that people that don't have it are. They're so fast to say, no, no, I definitely don't have it. Because nobody who doesn't have galvanizing wants to be put in a position of having to galvanize. Yeah, I'll say, please don't make me get up in front of people and tell them to do something they don't want to do. And so it, because it's so observable, it's easier for people to say, no, that's not mine. Whereas discernment is harder to see right away.

B (16:09)

Well, you can't, you can't watch somebody discern, but you can watch the result of their lack of discernment. You know, yes, you can see the fallout from that.

A (16:19)

Right. It just takes a little bit longer to see the outcome of that.

B (16:22)

Yeah.

A (16:23)

And I think wonder and discernment are two that people under misunderstand because it is hard for somebody to go, no, you're definitely not that one. I think GTs. There's very few people would claim to be a GT that aren't. Because most people, they go, I'm a GT. And people are like, oh, you definitely are a GT. Yeah, it's very interesting. So the message here is just when you do this, really work hard to look at your results and look at the descriptions and be super honest about what you are and help others do that too. And because as soon as the square peg fits into the square hole, it just slides right in and suddenly everybody breathes a sigh of relief. The person with that and the people around them and said, I totally get you. I understand what you're great at. I can celebrate you. And when I ask you to do something that's not yours, I'm going to have a ton of grace for you. It's such a win win for everybody when people accept and understand what they really are.

B (17:25)

Love it. I think that's it.

A (17:27)

That's all. Stop when you're done and we're done. Hey, thanks for listening to us on our 100th episode. If you want to like it and subscribe and do all that stuff that people do, we would appreciate it a lot. Also, send us your ideas if you have any. The people listen to the Working Genius podcast are a lot of them are just so into this and when I'm out in an airport or I have been lately or on vacation and I meet people who are Working Genius folks and they recognize my voice from the podcast or they know our stuff and it is so fun to hear them tell us stories about how it's changed their life and their work and their their home life too. So thanks for reaching out to us and doing that and we'll talk to you next time on the Working Genius Podcast. God bless.