The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni

Episode 101: Silver Linings After Layoffs
Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Patrick Lencioni ("Pat") and Cody Thompson

Episode Overview

In this episode, Patrick Lencioni and co-host Cody Thompson explore how layoffs—while painful—can offer unexpected opportunities for growth and fulfillment, especially when viewed through the lens of the Working Genius model. Drawing on personal anecdotes, practical advice, and their expertise in team dynamics, they make the case that losing a job can serve as a catalyst for realigning your work with your true strengths and passions. The episode addresses the fears and uncertainties associated with layoffs, examines how most people end up in roles misaligned with their natural talents, and delivers actionable steps for anyone facing job loss or career dissatisfaction.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reframing Layoffs as Opportunity

• Layoffs as an Acceleration Tool:
  Pat opens by emphasizing that setbacks like layoffs can act as the "dip" before major growth, offering the chance to realign with more fulfilling work.

  • “Sometimes to take three steps forward, you have to take a step or two back.” (00:00)
  • “If you found that job that actually fed you and gave you joy and energy, you're going to be a happier person.” (00:36)

• Not Minimizing Hardship:
  Both hosts repeatedly acknowledge the fear, stress, and uncertainty of layoffs but clarify that taking the right approach can minimize pain and uncover positive outcomes.

  • “We're not diminishing the fear and anxiety and like all of the things that come with being laid off.” – Cody (04:18)

2. The Working Genius Lens: Beyond Job Titles

• Rethinking Career Identity:
  People often limit their job search to their last role or industry. The Working Genius model shows that your true talents are transferable and can shine in unexpected settings.

  • “When you know your working genius, you don't think about it that way. You think this working genius is applicable in many different jobs in many different industries.” – Pat (03:27)

• Breaking Free from Narrow Role Descriptions:
  Many get stuck in industry-specific thinking (e.g., “I’m a programmer”), instead of focusing on broader, more portable capabilities (e.g., “I galvanize teams, set priorities”).

  • “There's a way of reframing it... from saying, oh, I have seven years’ experience in this industry to being able to describe the work that you could do that is across any industry because those working genius [skills] would translate.” – Cody (05:14)

• Personal Anecdote – The Lawyer Turned Tech Leader:
  Pat recounts a story of a lawyer who discovered “invention” as his genius and transitioned from law to driving technology innovation, showcasing the power of knowing your gifts.

  • “He left the law practice completely because... the company needed somebody to really help them figure out the future of their technology.” (06:06)

3. How Many People Work Within Their Genius?

• The hosts estimate that less than 20% of people are fully leveraged in their working genius.

  • “I think it's under 20%.” – Pat (08:01)
  • “Certainly more than half the people in the world, so many of them don't know what their geniuses are, so they don't understand why they might not be satisfied.” – Pat (08:16)

• Breaking the Handcuffs:
  Layoffs can forcibly remove “golden handcuffs” and prod people to seek alignment between joy, energy, and occupation.

• Laura’s Story:
  Pat shares how his wife Laura’s layoff—due to illness—prompted her to become a contract recruiter and trainer, ultimately leading to far greater fulfillment.

  • “She will tell you, had I not got laid off, I would not have left that job. And it was leaving that job that allowed her to find something that actually suited her skills more.” (08:53)

4. Practical Coaching: Navigating Career Reinvention with Working Genius

• Start with Frustrations, Not Passions:
  Pat walks through a mock coaching session, suggesting that starting by identifying your working frustrations can help you avoid bad fits in future roles.

  • “First of all, don’t take a job where you are going to be asked to do something very specific that you’re not necessarily interested in, and then you have to go do it perfectly.” – Pat (10:46)

• Be Clear and Bold in Interviews:
  When interviewing, be honest about roles you’re not suited for; this saves time and frustration for everyone.

  • “When you go to interview, if somebody presents you a job that's not good for you, say ‘Oh, that wouldn’t be a good fit.’” – Pat (12:47)

• Short-term vs. Long-Term Survival:
  They acknowledge realities: it’s sometimes necessary to take interim jobs for financial survival, but stress that long-term satisfaction is about finding roles in your genius.

• Cultural Values Matter:
  Cody adds that beyond working genius, organizational culture and values (“humble, hungry, smart” in their language) are critical for satisfaction.

  • “If you find a job that suits your working genius but doesn’t necessarily fit culturally, you might be just as dissatisfied as you were in a previous role.” – Cody (13:47)

5. Questioning Life Circumstances & Economic Assumptions

• Geography and Lifestyle Overhaul:
  Pat proposes that people often feel stuck because of geography or cost of living, when moving to a different city (with a lower cost of living) can increase happiness even if salary drops.

  • “A happy school teacher in Boise can live. A schoolteacher in Walnut Creek, California, struggles. Sometimes it's okay to go. If I'm meant to be a schoolteacher... I'm going to make some other changes in my life that are going to make everything better anyway.” – Pat (16:24)

• Zero-Interest Loan for Life Transitions:
  Pat floats the idea of a charity offering no-interest loans for people needing a financial buffer to make a courageous move or career transition.

  • “I wish there was a charity in the world where people could go and apply for a zero interest loan just to make a transition.” (14:48)

• Fulfillment vs. Income:
  Cody reframes the question:

  • “How much would you pay to come home from work fulfilled?” (17:10)
  • And Pat adds:
  • “The secret about this whole thing is when you’re working in your working genius, you tend to succeed... and then you make more money.” (17:34)

6. Key Takeaways and Calls to Action

• Layoffs as Hidden Blessings:
  Even though they’re scary, layoffs can push you to question what truly brings fulfillment and align your work—and possibly your whole life—accordingly.

• Do the Working Genius Assessment:
  Both hosts urge listeners:

  • “If you're getting laid off, do working genius. If you know somebody that is, please get them a working genius assessment and help them think through that.” – Pat (18:48)

• Self-Initiate Before the Crisis:
  “Maybe if you're a person that's thinking, ‘Man, this job doesn't feel very stable right now’ – Start that process now. Get ahead of the curve.” – Pat (19:27)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes to take three steps forward, you have to take a step or two back.” – Pat (00:00 and reiterated at 17:56)
• “If you found that job that actually fed you and gave you joy and energy, you're going to be a happier person.” – Pat (00:36)
• “There’s a way of reframing it… being able to describe the work that you could do that is across any industry because those working genius [skills] would translate.” – Cody (05:14)
• “She will tell you, had I not got laid off, I would not have left that job. And it was leaving that job that allowed her to find something that actually suited her skills more.” – Pat (08:53)
• “When you go to interview, if somebody presents you a job that's not good for you, say ‘Oh, that wouldn’t be a good fit.’” – Pat (12:47)
• “How much would you pay to come home from work fulfilled?” – Cody (17:10)
• “The secret about this whole thing is when you’re working in your working genius, you tend to succeed... and then you make more money.” – Pat & Cody (17:34)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:51: Pat introduces the silver linings of layoffs and ties the episode to a recent article.
• 02:46–05:51: Discussion on why people end up in the wrong jobs and how Working Genius transcends job titles.
• 05:51–07:23: The lawyer story (career reinvention via working genius).
• 08:01–09:48: Estimating how few people operate in their genius, leading into Laura’s career transformation story.
• 10:41–14:27: Coaching and tactical advice for career reinvention using the Working Genius framework.
• 14:27–17:34: Rethinking money, relocation, and quality of life.
• 17:56–19:31: The value of temporary setbacks, reinforcing the role of Working Genius.
• 19:32–19:44: Episode conclusion and call to action for listeners.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a powerful, practical reframing of layoffs—moving from fear and scarcity to opportunity, reinvention, and joy. Pat and Cody skillfully blend expert advice with real-world stories while providing a toolkit (Working Genius) for anyone looking to thrive, not just survive, after job loss.