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The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni
102. Working Genius and Emotional Intelligence
00:23:44
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- [00:00]
A
The greatest gift you could ever give somebody is to give somebody a better understanding, a loving understanding of how they can improve their emotional intelligence. Because it is the key that unlocks so many doors in life. So many people that have low emotional intelligence have nobody around them to say, I love you enough to tell you you're a great person. But when you do these things, I'm not sure you're understanding how it impacts others and how it impacts me. Not because I want to make it easier for you to deal with me, but because I want you to become more effective in your life. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. This is Pat Linon, your host, joined by Cody Thompson, my co host. How's it going today, Cody?
- [00:45]
B
I'm doing really well, Pat.
- [00:46]
A
That's good, that's good. You're a little under the weather. Your kids gave you a cold. It sounds like.
- [00:50]
B
They sure did.
- [00:51]
A
They love us so much. They like to give us even their sicknesses. And it's a delight. Hey, Cody, what's the topic today?
- [00:57]
B
We're calling it WG and eq.
- [01:00]
A
That's right. Working Genius and Emotional intelligence, if you will. Eq. And it was fun prepping for this because we learned a lot just going through this. And we should say right away that emotional intelligence, most of what we know about it comes from Travis Bradbury, who's written a number of great books about it along with Jean Greaves and, and he is like the guy that, he's the expert. And EQ is one of those things, Cody, we talk about in our practice all the time. And I've said many, many times when I work with executive teams that I would trade off a lot of IQ points for more EQ points with the people I work with. Because when people are emotionally intelligent, it changes everything in their career, in their lives and on their teams. But somebody recently asked me a question and that was, is there a correlation between different working genius pairings and a person's eq? And so we're going to talk about that today. We definitely have some strong opinions about this, but as always, we like to work this through with our audience because you're insiders and Working Genius is only five years old. So it's fun. As much research as we're doing, it's fun to open it up and have this be kind of open source material with people that listen to the podcast. So what do you think, Cody? Is there A correlation between a person's working genius pairings or types and their level of emotional intelligence?
- [02:28]
B
Yeah, it's a great question and one that we, like you said, we kind of explored the core of that. And so I think there is some connection, but it might not be the one that we thought initially. So in as much as maybe the most succinct way of saying it is, in as much as eq, the first step is self awareness. Then maybe working genius is connected to emotional intelligence. Right, right. But what people were actually asking in that question is like, are, are certain geniuses more self aware than others? Like a obvious one would be like, are discerners? Do they have some level of like, better understanding of self, who they are and how other people operate? Is that the thing? And so that's what we can explore is kind of two parts, is like, does it go by genius or by the very nature of working genius itself?
- [03:16]
A
Yeah, and I think we would come down on a hard no, we do not believe there's a correlation between some people with these working geniuses tend to have higher emotional intelligence. We think they are totally independent. But as it turns out, the more you understand yourself and others and can manage that, that is where emotional intelligence lies. And I think it's important for people to understand that. Travis Bradbury believes very strongly, his whole business is predicated on this, that you can improve in emotional intelligence. You can work on it and get better. Yes, some people seem to have an easier time of it. Maybe how they grew up, their social situation, we don't know. But everyone can improve their emotional intelligence. And we believe that a great tool for that is working genius. But, but I want to make it very clear again, when people say, well, I'm this working, I'm an ID or a we, that means my, my emotional intelligence is probably pretty high. We don't think there's any correlation or causation between the two.
- [04:14]
B
Well, and Pat, like, I bet it wouldn't take long for listeners of this podcast or for us to come up with a bunch of examples of like, well, name a two letter combination of working genius and someone you've experienced who has that combination and no emotional intelligence versus somebody who has it, you know?
- [04:30]
A
Right.
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B
Because this is what I actually think. Even as we were prepping for this, it was like, oh, you know what? A lot of what we've done on this podcast is try to help people become more self aware and gain more EQ points by saying, you know, when we do the Rough edges podcast and we go through and we say, hey, if you're wired as a discerner galvanizer like me, here's how some people might experience you on the other side of that. Or we do the rough edges or we do the celebrate your frustration. So it's like there's other ways that we've tried to help people kind of socially put it out there that I'm aware that this is how I come across, which is a great first step.
- [05:10]
A
Yes. Self awareness, Travis Bradbury says is, is at the heart of emotional intelligence. It's not enough, but it's critical. You know, it's interesting, Cody, what we thought we'd do today is what we found somebody that we work with that has zero emotional intelligence. We're going to bring them on and talk. No, of course not. Wouldn't that be awesome though?
- [05:29]
B
I thought you were setting that up for me to be the guy.
- [05:33]
A
But that would be an amazing, I mean, and I mean this in a kind way. It would be interesting to talk to somebody who scores really low and kind of help understand why is that what is true? And maybe just having that conversation would probably raise their level of emotional intelligence because they might become self aware. But so, so the first thing that a person needs to do and this is you always say, Cody, what's the best kind of CEO in terms of working genius type? The self aware one. And so no matter what your two letters are in working genius, if you understand yourself and that you're wired that way and of course other things about yourself like your Myers Briggs type or your, the way you grew up or your values. But if you understand yourself, you have a huge advantage in being self aware. So people that are really understanding of their, of their working genius types, step one is, is pretty high.
- [06:23]
B
I actually I'm, I'm back on the. If we could observe somebody without any self awareness, like I almost picture it like a Steve Irwin is commentating like somebody in the wild in the workplace. Like watch this, watch this leader walk into this meeting with zero self awareness and watch what happens or some Planet Earth documentary about like we're observing these. But honestly you could, if you could find an environment you'd be able to predict, like, okay, now watch this person who's not self aware and watch the interactions they have with their colleagues. And here's what this is going to lead to. Like you know, you're observing them in a meeting or in a hallway conversation or at lunchtime. That would be fascinating and really go very far in proving that this is a necessary first step for lots of people in the workplace.
- [07:12]
A
Something just occurred to me in the TV show the Office. I think so much of the humor and you look at it, most of the characters on that show had zero self awareness. Now obviously Jim and Pam do and that's kind of. They're how we see the Office. The looks on their faces like these people are crazy. And maybe Oscar had some too, but Michael and Dwight and Creed and for those people that didn't watch the Office, I'm sorry but. And Angela. There was just so little self awareness. Kevin, you know, and it's kind of delightful if you didn't have to rely on them to get things done or to help you out in your friendship. Watching people without it is quite comical and I think that's probably why that show was so funny. And Michael Scott, the leader, it's just like, oh my gosh, he really doesn't know how people see him.
- [08:00]
B
Quite frankly. It's not that dissimilar from real life. Like those knowing glances that Jim and Pam would shoot to each other. Jim would look directly at the camera. That's what happens when somebody is on a team and lack self awareness is like this kind of side glance to people who have it that are like, can you believe that that is happening right now? Like, you know, there is a really interesting correlation to that. But I think that's, you know, when we talked about. Okay, so knowing yourself is the first thing. Being aware of your own self and.
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A
Just as much to know your working genius and your frustrations and yeah, both.
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B
Because not just one side is like, oh, okay, this also impacts the way I show up. So knowing yourself and then knowing others and I think that's what you were talking about is like working genius puts some language and some handles to both of those things in some really practical ways to say, you know, we joked earlier like there are some specific geniuses that are especially like double disruptive geniuses. Like a person that has galvanizing and tenacity. If they're not self aware, they could show up on a team and it's really disruptive and they're unsure why.
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A
Yeah, you're going to notice a person who's double disruptive their lack of self awareness far faster than you are. Somebody with. With it's double responsive, probably it's going to be out there.
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B
And I'm not picking on galvanizers and tenacity folks. The gts of the world. But. But they're even because there's so much about rallying people around initiative and wanting to get things done. The very nature of self exploration is kind of like, what are we doing here? Like, I was just in a session with a GT explaining working genius. And for the first 45 minutes, I could tell that person was uncomfortable and they were like, I'm ready to get out of here and get real work done. And then there started to be some, like, real aha's around. Oh, that's why. Because I. I am wired in this way to want to go do that. And so I think that the. The handles that working genius puts on self discovery and self awareness is. And a very, very valuable first step for anybody.
- [10:03]
A
Absolutely. You know, you said the old proverb and is it from proverbs in the Bible?
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B
No, I think it's attributed. I tried to look it up. I think it's attributed to Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain. But it says it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
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A
Right. So when it comes to emotional intelligence, two people that are both emotionally unintelligent in the same way, one's a W E and one's a gt people are gonna notice the GT more.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:30]
A
And then there's introvert and extrovert and all that stuff. But here. But again, there's not a correlation. It's just how you're gonna see somebody. One person will let you in on that. The other person, not so much now. So self awareness is critical. By the way, I just thought of something, a great way to ruin the office. If you could do a show about, we're gonna ruin this show. We're gonna go to the writers and say, hey, just make all those characters self aware. So Dwight comes in, hey, everybody, I want you to know I'm very rude. I don't understand things. I'm dorky. And I say, silly, you would be like, oh, well, that's the end of that show. So self awareness takes that away now, but what about understanding the aware, the working genius of others? Because that's where social awareness comes in. There are people that understand themselves but don't really understand others, and that limits their emotional intelligence.
- [11:21]
B
Yeah, I love the application because again, it. It's only half the battle, like you said, if you know yourself. But then how do you fit that on a team that you work on? Like, what sort of handles do you have to put that into practice? And I think that's one of the ways that working genius accelerates this for you, is to say, like, okay, I know who I am and how I'm Wired. Now I know how you're wired. Even if I'm relatively bad at managing the relationship between those two things, at least I'm aware. And that's the first step.
- [11:50]
A
And that requires curiosity, too, which is a separate thing, but it requires curiosity that I want to understand those other people. So some people can be really into understanding themselves, but then they don't understand. Others are like, oh, I don't really care how they act. And that's going to be a huge limit in their emotional intelligence. And, you know, it's like what St. Francis of Assisi said, seek to understand more than to be understood. The point there was, demonstrate a concern for others more than even yourself. Well, self awareness is a lot easier now. Take the time to be curious about others, to find out what their working genius is, their Myers Briggs, what's going on in their life. Because a big part of an emotional intelligence is combining both of those things. And I think this is where emotional intelligence can also slide into virtue, because having that natural desire to understand others is virtuous. It's selfless. And I think that humility probably goes with emotional intelligence more than we realize.
- [12:50]
B
I like that you connected to humility. I was about to make the leap to vulnerability because part of it is just saying, hey, here's what I. I know I rub people the wrong way in this context or I'm wired in this way, and if I'm, if I don't regulate it, it can come across, you know, a certain way. And, you know, Krista, who is on this podcast, gave me some feedback a year and a half ago that said, you know, curiosity is vulnerability. And so when you say, like, curious about other people, in fact, I would. I like, I like saying that, like, sometimes when we use working genius, what you don't want to do is then make assumptions, like, you know, everything about the person sitting across from you. It's so great to be curious and say, tell me about how that plays out at work or at home. And so there's a certain. I love that we're getting all the way down to vulnerability being a key component of self awareness. You can't have it without it.
- [13:40]
A
Yeah. And, you know, it's so interesting because I've been writing notes here and you were asking about this earlier. I think that being emotionally intelligent probably requires some level of emotional health because curiosity, being willing to ask other people questions is not insecure. People have a hard time with that. And I think one of the most truly attractive qualities in people, and we talk about humility we talk about Jesus is. I am just as interested in your life. In fact, I would rather talk about your life than mine. Now, if you have questions about mine, I'll share that and be vulnerable. But I really do. I love what Krista said. Curiosity is humility and vulnerability. And so. So we have to understand ourselves and we have to understand others, but we have to want to understand others. I don't know if that's necessarily a skill set as it is a desire.
- [14:31]
B
Yeah, I like that. And in some ways, like sitting down and asking questions and. But this gives you more because oftentimes I feel like when we go to coffee or at the water cooler or whatever, those questions can kind of be like, more, hey, how was your weekend? But when you get really to the essence of, like, who are you and why. Why do you operate the way that you operate, what it does to sort of knit the social fabric? Like, I love the idea of, like, a socially healthy relationship is really unique.
- [15:01]
A
Yeah. Boy. I tell you what, the idea that I might talk to people and not ask questions about them, but talk about myself is just cringy to me. We all do it sometimes it's something I would hate to do. And I think about that and I think, oh, I never want to be that person. And I'm sure I have been so self, aware, socially aware. I know my working genius. I know yours. Now the next question becomes, what do we do with that? Because emotional intelligence is how we display that as well. It's not enough to be aware and then how do we act on that? That's what we need to talk about next.
- [15:35]
B
Yeah, I love the handles of that. I mean, it's still. Step one is start with yourself. Right. Like you. I think if you don't understand and can be whole in your own understanding of yourself, the last thing you want to do is jump to let me understand all of the people on my team or in my life and let people like that.
- [15:53]
A
Yeah, there are people like that, we talked about this before that, that seem really curious about everybody else, but it's like, have you looked at yourself? And there's probably wounds that go into that as well.
- [16:01]
B
I think that there's a, you know, there's a whole. I don't want to add too many models in here, but I did think about the Johari window in advance of this podcast. And as much as you understand, you know, what you know about yourself, and then there's this whole quadrant, the one that you. You're most afraid of is other people know it about you and you don't know it about yourself. And the best one is I know it about myself and other people know it about me. That's a great place. But what working genius does. So once you understand yourself, I think step two is go tell the people in your life about the be vulnerable and say, hey, in moments like this, like I can talk about myself too much or I don't ask questions or hey, I'm a discerner. Sometimes I think I'm right way too often. And I want the, the, the part of that conversation that people are surprised by is they're like when, when it's been long enough of you lacking self awareness and they go, oh, you finally know that about yourself. That's terrible. But if you're proactive in that it's really, really well received, you know.
- [17:00]
A
And for those people who don't know what the Johari window is, it's J O H A R I I think right. But it start it came from a guy, Joe and Harry, but they called it that who came up with this. And it's a look it up online. It's really interesting. It's so simple and so fascinating. And the window they're talking about is when other people understand things about you that you're not aware of about yourself. This, this is the essence probably of, of low emotional intelligence. And you know, I have a friend, Cody, I want to put this person now I have a friend who he really struggles to compliment other people like he you. I know that he wants to be complimented and so people do that because they love him and they care about him but he's so reluctant to comment on other people's stuff. And we know that it's because of wounds and other things, but it really limits his ability to build relationships with others. And so when I think about what should he do? It's like understand yourself, understand others. Now when you interact with others, focus more on the other than on yourself, right? Regulate who you are, knowing what your working genius, your Myers Briggs and your stuff is. But spend most of your energy trying to interact with others in the way that works for them. When you do that, it's amazing how everything changes. Does that make sense?
- [18:19]
B
It totally does. And it doesn't mean just one little nuance. It doesn't mean only talk about them. What you can do is say here's how my behavior impacts you sometimes, you know, like that's still a them focus conversation to be able to like say to them hey, by the way, now I know this. I Know that, how that feels to be on the other side of me.
- [18:40]
A
Exactly. That's that vulnerability. Because you know what all of this leads to. And I didn't even think about this when we started, but what it leads to is then you gain the credibility and the trust with that other person where you can finally do the thing we're meant to do, and that is talk to them about how they can increase their self awareness. Now we need to do that after we've understood them and complimented them and acknowledged our own impact and interaction with them. But at the end of all this, if we can go out into the world with the people we work with and live with and love and even the ones we don't love and help them understand themselves better so that they can be the greatest gift you could ever give somebody or one of the greatest gifts would be other than your kidney maybe. And that is to give somebody a better understanding, a loving understanding of how they can improve their emotional intelligence. Because it is the key that unlocks so many of the doors in life. And so many people that have low emotional intelligence have nobody around them to say, I love you enough to tell you that when you do this. And I'm going to commit to actually talking to this guy. And we've kind of done it before, but I think I could sit down in vulnerable love and say, you're a great person. But when you do these things, I'm not sure you're understanding how it impacts others and how it impacts me. Not because I want to make it easier for you to deal with me, but because I want you to become more effective in your life. Because I know we see people with low emotional intelligence, it really hurts them in so many different ways.
- [20:18]
B
Yeah. And I think that just like in any marriage, relationship, anything, if they know you've done the work, first to understand yourself. And you have examples of like, hey, this is how this helped me. That conversation goes so much smoother.
- [20:33]
A
You know, I'm going to explain something that's on a very spiritual personal note. But I've been in my life learning to receive the love of God more. It's something I always struggled with. Like me, I understand why God loves everybody else, but maybe not me. And now I realize my desire to understand his love, which is always a great thing, is so that I can better share it with others. Because when I can't receive it, it's harder for me to share it. And now my desire is both I want to feel it and, and I want to get better at sharing it with others. And so people listening to this, get better at your own emotional intelligence and go read Travis Bradbury's book. And you can do that. So now you can go help others. Your colleagues, your friends, your neighbors, your spouse. That's the greatest thing. To develop something in yourself so that you can bring that to others. That would be, boy, what a wonderful thing in life to help others become. Imagine if people said that Cody, man, just being around him, he's really helped me improve my emotional intelligence with both how I see myself and how I see others and work with them. That would be a great gift.
- [21:41]
B
Imagine. Nobody said that, but imagine one day.
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A
Cody, this is my intervention to you.
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B
Yeah. Thank you. I look forward to this hypothetical conversation you're having with a hypothetical friend who doesn't.
- [21:56]
A
The message here today is emotional intelligence is really critical in life. And your working genius, how you understand yourself and others is a huge tool for improving in that area. And yet do not get trapped into thinking, well, my working genius type or my pairing makes it harder for me or easier for me. It's just how people see you. But your awareness and awareness of others is really how you get there. Does that make sense? I hope this episode has been helpful for people. I think it's been really interesting having this. Many things have come to mind to me just in the course of talking about it.
- [22:30]
B
Yeah. I think the self awareness side of this whole conversation, like all hundred plus episodes we've done around working genius is so tied to what we're doing and so critical that you can't divorce it from the conversation around working genius.
- [22:46]
A
Yeah. And you know, I'm going to end with something and it goes with what you've been saying and we've been talking about and that is this. People will often go, man, I wish I had a different working genius. And usually because it's like they don't appreciate their own, like, I wish I were more practical or I wish I were more creative or whatever else it is and say, hey, you can't control that. God made you the way you are and he loves you the way you are. What you can do, though, is increase your ability to understand what that means in you and to let other people know that. And that will make you exponentially more effective than if you actually changed your letters. So gets back to that thing. Self awareness is key. Alrighty. That's it for today, I think, right, Cody?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You've not coughed very much at all.
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B
I was trying not to cough. I was like, just wrap it up, Pat. I can. I can hold on a little longer, but you just kept going.
- [23:31]
A
Alrighty. Okay, everybody, thanks for joining us. We love talking about working genius. We love hearing from you. We will look forward to our next conversation about all this. In the meantime, God bless.