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- [00:00]
A
One of the best benefits of working genius is self awareness. There are people out there who have these geniuses that are not mapped right next to each other. They've probably wondered, like, why does it seem so easy for other people to get on board? Why does that look not stressful to that person? But it gives me lots of pause or anxiety, hey, there's nothing wrong with you if you're self aware enough to know, oh, that's my wonder kicking in. It might not be at the right time. It might not be the right moment for me to extrovert the wonder, but you don't have to walk around thinking, oh, that's so easy for all of them. And it's not easy for me. Something's wrong with me. It's like, no, that's really, really helpful.
- [00:38]
B
Welcome to the working genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts you and your life. I'm Pat Lin Choney. This is Cody Thompson, and we are here to talk to you about what today, Cody?
- [00:51]
A
The distance between geniuses.
- [00:53]
B
Yeah. You know, we love opening up our developmental discussions and our experimenting to this audience because it's fun. And working genius is only five years old. And we were talking just in the last few days about the challenge of when there's a great distance between your geniuses. And wt, of course, is what we've always talked about, because W is the highest level, 50,000ft in the clouds. T is the lowest level in terms of implementation, 5ft off the ground, implementing things. But I don't think we've looked at I and T and W and E as much as we could, because I think they have not quite as much, but almost as much what we'd call altitude sickness in terms of going from something really high up there to something really down here. And we had a breakthrough today, Cody. Right when we looked at it on the scale.
- [01:40]
A
Yeah. And I would just say this. Probably people that are new to working genius one minute in, realize this is probably not the first podcast you should listen to because we're using W and T and I and E. But like wonder being the highest, tenacity being the lowest. There's total of six geniuses we've covered the biggest difference, like you said, wonder to tenacity. What does it look like if somebody's living with two geniuses that are the second biggest distance apart? And. And I love how you teed this up because so often we are having these discussions like we were having it yesterday. In a meeting, and we decide, you know what, let's just have that discussion and hit record and invite people into the exploration process. We have a few leaves on the tree, but oftentimes, as we have conversations over the podcast, we. We sort of formulate more of our thoughts around it.
- [02:29]
B
Yes, yes. And I think, Cody, there's two things that people who have these big gaps between them experience, and that's stress and frustration in a way that's different than others. So, like, you're a dg, Cody, so your letters are right together. So when you discern and galvanize, there are two things that actually happen in sequence pretty easily. I'm an id. It's pretty easy for me. My wife said wi. And then there's people that have two. Like our producer Matt said wd, there's one in between, but they're pretty close together. And. And we. Tracy's a de. But when you have more than two spots in between and for. For wt, it's only with four. We're talking about doing two different activities that are pretty far apart in the normal sequence of getting work done. And that I've seen this in my friends and family members that have this. There is a unique kind of stress that's involved in that, and they're often misunderstood as well. And let's take these one at a time. So we've talked about the WT in the past where somebody wonders and they've got to get things done. It's really stressful for them because they're both, is this the right thing to do? And, oh, my gosh, we've got to deliver. Let's talk about the it now. The person that has one genius of invention and one of the tenacity, and that is much more challenging than sometimes we recognize.
- [03:54]
A
Yeah. It's interesting because there's. I think there's a handful of ways we can look at it. The first obvious is just the gap between. There's three other geniuses that should happen in sequence after invention, before you get to tenacity. So it should go invention. Here's an idea discernment. Oh, people kind of evaluate, judge, refine the idea. That's awesome. Then we galvanize people around the idea, and then people, you know, with enablement support the idea, and then it goes across the finish line. So that's sort of the natural flow. Like, this is one of the ahas of working geniuses that work happens in these six activities. We're often warning teams like, hey, don't skip one of these you know, if you skip one, it will. It will actually not, you know, materialize the way you hope, but at a person, a single individual doesn't have the, you know, the. The people around them to maybe, you know, fill in the gaps of those other geniuses so they can go right from invention right to, I need to get that done right now. I need to push it across the finish line. So I love the words like stress, attention, angst. They might even feel some angst about that.
- [05:02]
B
Yeah.
- [05:02]
A
Because they may not even know how to articulate it. But the process of saying, here's an idea, and then feeling naturally wired to say, now I have to complete it is a. Is a stressful place to be.
- [05:14]
B
I think I just figured something out, Cody. There's so much patience that has to be involved in that. I think about this because think about IGs. We know a lot of IGs. They're inventors, galvanizers. They come up with great ideas, and they're like, let's do it. And they have to have the patience to slow down and consult with a discerner to go, hey, before I drive this car a hundred miles down the road, I'd like to check in with you about my idea and make sure I'm not driving off a cliff. And it takes patience for them, because they want to go from I to gain. Well, that's hard enough, but that's only one letter. Let's just say you're in it, and you go, I have this idea. It's like, oh, well, I want you to be patient. Why don't you run it by somebody with discernment? Okay, I've done that. All right, let's implement it. No, no, no. Before we do that, let's get somebody to get people excited. Okay. Okay. Are they excited? Good. And before we implement it, let's make sure people are on board and they sign up to help. Think about the patience that's involved to go from I to T. And yet most of us want to do both of our geniuses, like, simultaneously.
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A
Simultaneously.
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B
And so to be an it means you have so much, so many gaps to fill before you get to exercise the second part of your genius. And that's really hard. I mean, I'm an I.D. so I go, I have an idea. Let me evaluate it. Then I can pass it on to people who are going to do G, E, and T. But, man, to be an it is hard. And I've seen people who are. It's go, how come that didn't work? And it's like, because there was so much that needed to be done before you're ready to implement.
- [06:40]
A
Yeah, the patience thing is really interesting. I love. I love thinking about it that way. I also, as you were describing that, I was like, yeah, the idea that we. We use the word responsive disruptive to represent, you know, certain geniuses, you know, that are responsive ones are wonder, discernment, enablement. The disruptive ones are invention, galvanizing, tenacity. And so it has an. Another layer of friction in some way, like not internal friction, sometimes external friction, where they're double disruptive as well. And another sort of way I like to think about it, because I love the patient analogy, is there's like an inhale, exhale as you go through the working genius. So wonder sort of inhales and thinks about the environment around them. And then invention is sort of an exhale of ideas, you know, so what you're doing is exhale, exhale as an it. You're like, here's an invention. It's disruptive. And then they go right to implementation of that idea as a tenacity genius. So there's a. There's a lot of layers here. There's even more layers than I thought when we started the podcast, as you
- [07:46]
B
said that, I was like, you're right, it's double disruptive. And for a disruptor to slow down and have to fill in the gaps with two additional responsive geniuses and is asking a lot, and that's hard. Now let's go to we, which is wonder and enablement, a double responsive.
- [08:06]
A
Same gap, though, like, still three letters
- [08:08]
B
in between three letters. But you know what's interesting, because they're responsive for some reason, and this is where the audience gets to play along, because we're actually doing development right here. And Matt, our producer, who is involved in development, and Tracy will be talking about this. I think it goes in the opposite direction. I think what provokes the we's tension is when somebody says, I need your help. And their natural inclinations go, yes, I will. And then they go, oh, but I have questions. And they have to back it up. Three letters to get all the way up here. Whereas all they want to do is be helpful, but they can't help but think, oh, but wait, I have a bunch of questions and thoughts about this. And. And oftentimes they don't ask them. They don't get to exercise that, because when the person asks them to do something that's close to finished, and there's this tension, they feel of like, I don't want to be the thing in the gears that slows everything down.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So they have to eat all of their great questions and they feel this sense of guilt and angst about I want to help them but maybe this isn't the right thing to do. But it's too late to ask questions and they can often feel a sense of being overwhelmed and misunderstood. We's are frequently misunderstood.
- [09:32]
A
Yeah. What an interesting way to think about it is the desire with enablement to want to help and a natural proclivity and enjoyment of asking questions. When most people expect help, they think it's advice or action or some. That's how we kind of perceive like I need help in this area. And I wonder if what would give them some peace or some way of contextualizing. The W part is like, I've had plenty of people in my life who use the sort of Socratic method of coaching that just ask questions that provoke you to have to answer. You know, there are bunches of coaches out there, probably a bunch of them who are inventor galvanizers. There's like, I have an idea and you should go after it. You know, like, this is the way I think about coaching or helping. But that tension, I wonder if there's any relief in thinking like, no, these questions are valuable. That's how I will help you is by provoking you to think about the right the answer yourself.
- [10:30]
B
You know, it's funny, my son, my 19 year old son is an E W E and he has terrible fomo. But I think more than fomo, what happens is somebody says, hey, do you want to do something? And his first answer is always, yeah, sure. I really think he wants to say yes. And he's in college and people are like, yeah, Michael, you're always going out with people. And he's like, yeah, they asked me and I think, yeah, of course I'll go out with you, you're my friend. And then he's like, oh, should I be here? Maybe I should have been doing my homework. But he feels like after he says yes, it's too late. And I wonder it'd be interesting to hear from people. And I know some other we's that say yes very fast. And then I think they go through a lot of like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said yes, but it's too late to change my mind and think
- [11:19]
A
of that in the context of work too. You get asked for help all the time. They have a proclivity to want to engage with people and come alongside and support and then they bounce between the tension of like wondering if this is the right thing. Are we? Remind me again why this is important. Like, is this the best use of our time? Is there a different way to do it? All of that is in service of whatever we're doing at work. But out in that tension, I'm sure people experience a lot of stress and angst.
- [11:48]
B
Gosh, you know, if you know what a person's working genius is and you can meet them halfway and their patients or impatience or things like if you're dealing with a we and you say, hey, I need your help. And they say, yeah, sure, I'll help you. And you know, they're a we. You should go, hey, I want to give you a chance to ask questions. Now before we go forward, I want to make sure that you should be saying yes to this. Let's go through that process. Or if an it comes to you and says, hey, I have this idea, you should go, oh, you're in it. You're going to want to jump right to this. Hey, can I help you? Slow down and process all the rest of this. I know it's hard. If you can actually anticipate the challenge they have, you can give them permission to either be patient or to back the process up to the beginning. But because it's tough to just say, well, you're going to have to do that on your own.
- [12:36]
A
Yeah. I think it goes back to one of the things we talk about frequently. Pat is one of the best benefits of working genius is self awareness.
- [12:44]
B
Yes.
- [12:44]
A
So there are people out there who have these geniuses that are, that are not mapped, you know, right next to each other. And they've probably wondered, like, why does it seem so easy for other people to get on board? Why? Well, like, why does that look not stressful to that person? But it gives me lots of pause or anxiety. It's like, hey, there's nothing wrong with you. But if you're self aware enough to know, oh, that's my wonder kicking in, I have to go, that's totally fine for me to have wonder. It might not be at the right time, it might not be the right moment for me to extrovert the wonder. But you don't have to walk around thinking, oh, that's so easy for all of them. And it's not easy for me. Something's wrong with me. It's like, no, that's really, really helpful.
- [13:29]
B
I remember that we worked with somebody who was a W.T. and, and we were like, and the advice I give to WTS is the same one I'm going to give to WE's. And it's. When you have so much in between, it's try to separate them. Try not to do them at the same time, because they don't really. There's a lot in between. And what I say is, so if you're doing tea work, do t work, and try to allow your W to rest. And if you're doing w work, set aside your T and your desire to make sure it fits in the budget and let yourself W. Because, like, we. We had this woman on our team, and this was before we knew working genius. And we were like, we knew she could get a crapload of work done. She was really good, but she was a wt. And we didn't know what that meant then. But we'd bring her in and go, okay, we got to get a bunch of stuff done. And immediately she'd be like, why are we doing this? Is this really worth it? And I don't know, are we in the right business? And we were like. And what I would say now is, we kind of need your tea right now.
- [14:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [14:29]
B
And we love your w, but we've w this a long time ago, and I need you. And similarly, like, one of the people I work with is an it. I'm going to slow her down when we. When she's doing I work and say, we're not even close to teeing this. Let's just allow you and all of us to live in the I space for a while before we move on to the next thing.
- [14:51]
A
Yeah, no, it's a great reminder. It's even a reminder. I mean, every. Every genius should think of it in context, you know, like whether I'm a discerner galvanizer, right in the middle, I still have to think about, because my tenants, even though they're close and I don't experience the same anxiety, is like, just discern and get people moving around the idea, you know?
- [15:10]
B
Right.
- [15:10]
A
I will say, too, Pat, as you were saying, our colleague, that was a wto. I was like, this is why some frameworks that we have are really helpful, too, because by definition, a thematic goal is what we had wondered, invented and discerned as the most important thing. So I remember working with this individual and going like, okay, let me just remind you about the. The context. This is how we. This is what we decided was the most important thing. Now let's activate your tenacity around the objectives that support the most important thing.
- [15:41]
B
Right.
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A
And oftentimes the W is just needing a reminder to say, like, it sounds like a question, like, read. Do we need to reevaluate whether that's the most important thing? I think a lot of times they just need a reminder. Can you just tell me again why this is important? Can you just, like, get me on track again and then I can activate the tenacity?
- [15:59]
B
That's a really good point. And that's why in our conversations, if we can be using these letters and we can say, hey, I've just E'd you on this. If you're a W, E, can I W? Yeah, we all go, oh, okay. I'll remind you why. I was at a church yesterday, my parish nearby, and I walked into the office and a woman had her working genius on her desk. I didn't even know she had done it. And she had the thing there so people could walk in and look at it and go, okay. And they're all in the process of buying the desk plaques where you have all six letters. And I just think those things are so important because when somebody walks in your office and goes, oh, okay, now I know. And they can even say, are you eating right now or are you W. Yeah, are you I. Are you teen? So the more we can keep this in the forefront of our brains, the better it is. One of the things, Cody, just for the purists out there, because there's so many great people that listen to this know working genius so well. One of the things that's interesting is if you're a we an IT or a wt, the three we're talking about here, by definition, what you're doing is you're going directly from ideation to implementation.
- [17:06]
A
You didn't say that earlier in the stages of work. We haven't said that yet. Right.
- [17:10]
B
The definition of all three of those is you're skipping from one kind of work ideation all the way to implementation and skipping over activation. By definition, that's what's going on. So we looked at our consultants because Joe and Hoel put together this list, and of our 51 consultants, I think all but three had had geniuses that were either in adjacent types of work or in the same type of work. Very few of them actually skipped them. So we had very few wt's, we, which just means that that's a unique challenge. It's a brilliant challenge. It's a great thing to have them that far apart if you know how to use them and if other people understand the tension that that involves.
- [17:58]
A
Yeah, that was fun. I Mean, a little exploratory. I think we got to put more leaves on the tree than I thought when we started, so there's something there. And I think, like, the goal of this podcast, obviously, is for people to leverage working genius in their life. And so the idea that, like, if you're experiencing some of that tension, some of the stress or that it's, like, spilling out in work or relationships, you have at least a container to put it in and kind of explain, like, yeah, that's. How would I go about that better? I like this separating them. I like the idea of, like, pausing and asking yourself, like, how many. What letters belong in between these two things? How can I leverage other people to activate their genius in those ways? So I think there's a lot of, like, really practical things, too.
- [18:39]
B
Yeah, I love it. By the way, I was over at church this morning, and I talked to the pastor. He's actually getting certified today. Isn't that great? I love that. Who knew that the priest at my church is actually decided I want to understand this and get certified. So he's going through it right now. And if you want to get certified, it is so worth it. It's two days, four hours a day. You come out of that, and it's really fun. We have great instructors, great lesson plans, and so everybody that's gotten certified really loves it. So if you want to do that,
- [19:10]
A
I'll say this, Pat. I didn't plan on doing this, but I'm doing a webinar, a preview of certification webinar, later this month in February. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I want to know more of what that is. Email carry C A R R I E@workinggenius.com she can get you the link to register for the webinar. It's a half hour trying to do it during lunch break. So if I'm boring, you can just eat pizza and turn on a YouTube video. But if you're ever curious about what a. What a. What it would look like to get certified, that's what we're hoping to accomplish in that webinar.
- [19:41]
B
All right. Look at that. We actually marketed something. We did a commercial.
- [19:44]
A
How about that? You better end it now because this is uncomfortable. Right?
- [19:47]
B
Hey, everybody, thanks so much for following this, for being advocates of this, and we really appreciate you, and we will talk to you next time on the Working Genius podcast. God bless you all.