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- [00:00]
A
When a manager is listening to an employee talk about their working genius pairing and describing themselves and what resonated with them, they're going to feel so seen. They're going to be like, I can't believe my manager is listening to me talk about what I love to do, what gives me joy and energy. So much of management is more about asking questions and listening and then having a conversation rather than telling it is one of those crazy, simple things that is going to make them feel more known by you than they've ever been. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast where we discuss anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm joined by Cody, my special guest today. Cody.
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B
Thank you, Matt.
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A
We're going to mix it up today and have Cody on as my what are we talking about today?
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B
Five tips for managers.
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A
That's right. We are going to do something that's really simple, but we are going to talk about how a manager can have a great conversation with an employee in not a long time that can make working genius sticky and usable and can change the culture and the relationship between the manager and the employee. And these are really simple pieces of advice. But again, it's usually the simple stuff that we need.
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B
Well, and Pat, I actually think this is very practical because we actually kind of sit in our offices and obsess about like, how do we help them have more aha moments around their results. Right. Like we do our best in the report. When someone gets the report to write in there. Yeah, here's your pairing and here's what your working genius is and you're working frustration. But the gap between like reading the report and really understanding some of the really low hanging fruit implications is it can be a little tricky. So these five tips will help someone get from like a little bit of understanding to some real practical, you know, here's how it will change my work in my life.
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A
Absolutely. And the first pre step, the zero step, if you will, is when you have your people take the working genius, make sure they spend 15 or 20 minutes reading through the report because it's so easy to go what's my letters? And then just jump right into a conversation. Taking the time to read through the description and to look at the 15 different pairings. 15 minutes of that will be like, okay, they're going to come there ready to actually have a more informed conversation. And I know every time I take an assessment, you know, I just want to jump right into the conversation about it. Sometimes, but give people a chance to digest it just for 15 or 20 minutes. It's not that hard to understand.
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B
Very regularly people will say in the first pairing page or like the description right away that describes me as well as anything I've ever taken. It's not that there's this giant gap that they need to know, digest and understand it. It's simple there, but it's. Then the model can get. It has so many applications. And that's where I think managers can take it a step further and say, here's what that means for your day in and day out work activities.
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A
Yes, exactly. So take a few minutes. Let. Let give them a little time to digest it. Then the first step is. And. And the key here is let them go first. Let them go first and say, tell me about your working genius pairing. What do you think? Describe it to me, what resonates with you? And let them actually take the time to do that. They're going to buy in so much more when they describe it and discuss it. And it's so easy as a manager to talk. I know it is for me as an extrovert, but let them take the first step at like, here's what I thought was interesting and here's what this means and let them be the first to go do that. And there's some other things in this first step as well.
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B
Yeah. I think that even my own reaction to the first time we were like, putting this on the whiteboard. There's some initial aha's that happened. Like, I. People didn't have language. I think part of it is digesting the language. Like, we talk about creativity and people think like, oh, you're in a. You know, we didn't have the language that you're an inventor and I'm a. I'm a discerner. But they were so interconnected that sometimes I felt like before we had the working genius, I was like, oh, people think of me as a creative, inventive person when really I was doing the discernment and like evaluating ideas. So my initial aha just sitting with my geniuses was like, yeah, you're right. I actually don't love the coming up with the idea. I actually really love the evaluating and vetting and picking and tweaking the idea. And that alone was like a very freeing aha moment for me.
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A
Right. And if I'm talking to an employee about this, I would probably want to just say, what do you think of your type? Like, describe it to me. What aha's are There. What, what surprises you about it? What about the words used to describe it? Man, I'll tell you what. And we're going to, we're going to talk about this a little bit later just doing this alone. We talk about in the book the three signs of a miserable job, which is the truth about employee engagement. We retitled it. It's the number one thing your employee wants from their manager is to be known and seen and understood by their manager. And when, when a manager is listening to an employee talk about their working genius pairing and describing themselves and what resonated with them, they're going to feel so seen. They're going to be like, I can't believe my manager is listening to me talk about what I love to do, what gives me joy and energy. I mean, it is one of those crazy, simple things that is gonna make them feel more known by you than they've ever been.
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B
We love talking about ourselves. We love discovering what our gifts are. And so when your manager is sitting across from you and like acknowledging, hey, you know what? I see this in you. I see that you're, you know, or they're describing it themselves and he's acknowledging, or she's acknowledging, like, yeah, I've seen that play out and work. That's a real bonding moment. Like, like you said, the idea that they feel well known and not just known, like, what's your dog's name and what's your kid's name? It's like, you know, what I bring to the table is a game changer.
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A
Yes. Probably one of the deepest ways to understand another person is how God wired them. And then part of this first step is in the. Now tell me about your other letters, especially the last two. Tell me about your frustrations. What an incredibly liberating thing for them to go, yeah, boss, it says here that I don't, I don't get joy and energy out of doing these things. And. And they're not admitting they have fault. They're just admitting who they are. What an awesome thing for a person to say. I'm really great at these things, and these things are really hard for me. Again, they're going to feel so seen and known, a little bit vulnerable. But in the context of something that makes it okay.
- [06:43]
B
That last word to use, I think is the most important one, Pat, the vulnerable word. Because what this does, this is one of my favorite parts of the interactions with people that I'm debriefing. Their report is like, the geniuses part is really fun. But the relationship building Happens around vulnerability. And we talk about teamwork happening. The foundation of that is around vulnerability based trust. And so this is probably the simplest and easiest way for people to enter into a vulnerable conversation. If you're sitting across from your manager and it's not like you said, it's not a defect or a flaw, you're like, hey, it says right here that I have a really hard time getting things over the finish line. That's not because I hate this job. It's not because I don't love my team, like, I don't love the work. It's like it's innate in me and the manager being able to receive that information that will build relationship and trust in a, in a really significant way.
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A
Yeah. So this first step is let them tell you about themselves in light of this. And it's a game changer. And so the next step is to talk about, okay, what are the implications of now that you've just understood them? Tell me the implications of this for your job. In other words. Now let's talk about applying this. So what does this tell you about the way your job is organized if you're doing well, where you're struggling, all of those things. And when we were prepping for this, Tracy said, don't go to application right away. Let them just talk about what, who they are and then talk about now. So what does it, what does all this mean that we've just talked about for your job? They're going to be so much more open to talking about that. And they're probably going to say, so it's probably not a surprise that that project didn't go very well, but this one went really well. And now I kind of get this and probably I need to, you know, they're going to be asking somebody to critique themselves and to analyze themselves is often the best way to get them to be completely honest.
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B
Yeah, you said, like, what resonates with you to start this? And then I like what you just described. I often will do this and say, hey, can you think of a recent project or an initiative that we did where it either like fed you and was really aligned with your geniuses, or maybe it was one that we put you in the wrong sort of seat on that project and it drained you. And before we even think about future implications of it, that they're starting to really process, like, oh, that does make sense. Like when we were doing this initiative, I had more of the work in my frustration than in my genius, and that's probably why I got stuck. Or Why I got frustrated or why I didn't deliver as well, and my overall enjoyment was low.
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A
Yeah. You know, Cody, I'm gonna stop here. So the first thing is to have them present to you what. And to talk about it. What resonated with them. The next one is to talk to them about, so how does this apply to your work? And what. What do we learn from this? About what you're doing really well and what you're not doing well. And it reminded me of something that Matt said before we went came on, and that was, what's the context for this conversation? This is not a performance review. It's not a. I think I'm going to let this person go. I better figure this out. This is like, listen, I want to talk to you about where you're working genius, because I want it to improve our relationship and our. And your ability to do the best you can and my ability to manage you. It's purely to be helpful. So when you set the context that way, it's a lot easier for them to go, oh, okay, yeah. This is what I've resonated with. This is how it applies in my work.
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B
Yeah. And even saying, like, my goal as a manager is to make sure that I'm putting people in the right positions and they are assigned work that aligns with things that give them joy and energy. Far too often, I think if there's some fear that people have around assessments, it's because they'll get pigeonholed, or they think like, oh, this is just going to be used to kind of like, monitor my performance or tell me why I'm not particularly good at a certain task. And when the manager tees it up in the right context, all of that goes away.
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A
And you know what's amazing, Cody? Because you're totally right. We've used so many different assessments over the years, and people will say, ah, I think you're putting me in a box and you're pigeonholing me. This is one where they're going, please put me in the right box. My. You knowing my box actually makes me excited. And people look at it and go, oh, I want everyone to know the box I'm in. Not because it limits them, but it gives them permission to know. This is why I love this and why I'm good at it. It's liberating, not constraining.
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B
Yeah. I think I've said before on this podcast that some of those others feel like it talks about our differences in some ways, the way that working genius is connected that all of these activities are required to get a project done, that none of us have all six of them. That we implied in that is that we need a team to be able to do this. It's more like a relay race of different players on the team.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so it makes you sort of run towards each other. It doesn't feel like there's as much of a separation mentality. It's more of a, how would I, as a manager leverage you in the context of the team and their geniuses?
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A
Yeah, it's almost like, hey, we're you, you've got a spot on the field, but let's figure out what position you want to play. Cause if you, if they, if the coach put you at your receiver and you're supposed to be a left tackle, you're not going to be a good receiver. You're like, please let me play left tackle. So everybody wants to be in the right position, the right seat on the bus, as long as they know they have a place on the bus. So, so as long as they're not afraid of getting kicked off the bus, it's like, oh, please understand me because I want to be in the right position. Okay, the third step. So you've, they've, they've digested it and they've shared it with you, then they've applied it to their job. The third step is. This is kind of crazy. It seems counterintuitive. Show them your working genius as their manager and say, what do you think? Does this resonate with what you've experienced with me? What about this? Do you go, do you look at and go, oh, yeah, that's true. Or I, I had never seen that before. Let them interact with you around your working genius.
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B
Yeah, I love that you put this in here, Pat, because I think you've already allowed them to share their report and there's some trust building there, some vulnerability there. Teeing up your own results and asking them, hey, can you interact with my results and my geniuses and frustrations? They've likely worked with you long enough to observe some of these things. So it's an innate trust building activity to say, tell me what you think. So I'm a Galvanizer, and the people on my team, if I show them the personality type that I am, the discerner Galvanizer, they're going to be like, yeah, I see that. You know, sometimes it feels like you're pushing or trying to inspire us to get more done or to, you know, get momentum around a certain project. I didn't realize that was part of your wiring. And on the flip side, like, I've. I lack tenacity. Like, there are times where I frustrate the people that work with me because I see the finish line and I'm move on to the next thing.
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A
Yeah. And I think that frustration part, I think it's great when your employee can talk to you and go, yeah, I've noticed this. Or I've never noticed this. So you don't like doing this. And you can go, no, I'm not good at some of the things that I have to do. Or if I am good at it, I don't even enjoy it. And I think again, there's a vulnerability there and a trust there that makes them go, oh, okay, so you're human. You're telling me the things you're not great at. And I get to have a conversation with you about this. I think this, I mean, in 45 minutes, a relationship between a manager and employee could change drastically just in these three steps.
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B
Well, and juxtapose it with what normally happens in a one on one path is like somebody writes goals at the beginning of the year. It's one way sort of communication of like, how are you doing against your goals? The fact that you're having a conversation about who. Who they are, you're building trust. You're inviting their input to your own wiring. As a manager, I mean, if you put those two meetings next to each other, I'm choosing the working genius. One on one, 100 out of a hundred times.
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A
Yeah. You know what I was thinking? We talked about where they're doing a performance review. This should be a performance preview. Let's talk about what's gonna happen going forward. And so often we think it's about goals, but if we can get this stuff down, the goal part becomes so much easier.
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B
Yep.
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A
Okay, so the third step is letting them analyze you. The fourth step is now sit down and say, let's brainstorm, you and I both, about how we can, if there's any way to help you, help you lean into your geniuses more and lean out of your frustrations a little bit more. And not only do I want to talk about you about that and get your thoughts, I'd love any advice you have for me. I mean, sitting down with an employee and brainstorming about, hey, what about this? And letting them say, hey, you know, when those meetings that you do this, it says here you don't have. Maybe you could have me or somebody else do that. Oh, my gosh. Suddenly this employee is like, engaged in helping solve problems for the team with the manager. If every manager had employees willing to do that, it would be fantastic.
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B
You know, Pat, I didn't really think about this in the context of this point you made, but as you said, it is like, we talk often about team number one and that we, when we're on a team, we want to, like, the goal is results of the team, not my own performance, not necessarily my own title, my own salary. I think the conversation, the way you teed that up is like, it sort of implies like, hey, our goal as a team is to get this stuff done. The way we allocate our team members to the tasks that we need to accomplish is like, pretty open handed. And I think that really resonates with team members and employees to say, like, hey, oh, if, if we're a team, like, imagine, imagine on a basketball team saying, like, well, it's only the forward's job to rebound.
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A
Right, Right, like, exactly.
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B
That's not ever going to work to help you win. But if everybody is, is sort of participating as a unit and we're all filling in where we have like, geniuses and we're covering for each other's frustrations, we're more likely to succeed.
- [16:52]
A
Oh, yeah. And if everybody feels like they have some input. Now, if you're a manager, listen, like, am I going to ask all of my employees to give me advice about how I do my job? Well, the answer is you're going to make it possible for them to, because they're going to come up with stuff that you don't see. And it's not like you have to do it. But when you say to them, hey, if you see, knowing my geniuses and frustrations a way I could go about helping the team even more, what a fantastic thing that everybody's willing to weigh in on that. Okay, and the fifth step is very simple, but it's just say, hey, let's talk next week or in a couple of weeks and let's, let's take that. And what we're saying is let's take the next week or two and to practice and see how this goes and what did we learn from it? And inevitably they're going to come back and go, I never realized that this part of my job is why I get so excited. I could do more of that. Or there's going to be new discoveries about self and other and this is going to. I'm going to read what I wrote at the end of this. Cody, I said, your Relationship with your employee is going to change in very real ways because they will feel seen and you will have a practical, tangible handle for managing them better. Like things to talk about. And it will become part of the way you interact with them and the vocabulary you use in talking about how to get work done. And that's when working genius gets put to its full use. When people start saying, hey, you guys, we got to galvanize people around this. You probably need to help us do that because I'm not good at that, that kind of stuff.
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B
Well, and Pat, I will say it's hard to overemphasize this ongoing sort of check in process because everything we just described is like, we almost called this, you know, working genius for dummies. Like, what's the first conversation, the first most simple, practical way to get started? And there's all this other application for them. It's like, but you don't want to fire hose them right out of the gate. The application can come from like, hey, here's how it explains some of the way you show up in a meeting because it matches your genius. Let's talk a little bit about the elevation of each genius and why you might feel more inclined to work at higher elevations because of your genius or whatever the case may be. Here's what it looks like. When you're on a team, I would say one of the important parts is don't overwhelm them out of the gate, the personal ahas, the practical implications, and then continue to kind of expand the way that we can use this in our team.
- [19:22]
A
As you were just saying that, Cody, I just realized this is just a reminder that so much of management is more about asking questions and listening and then having a conversation rather than telling. But when we're busy, we think, oh, let's just dive right in here. I'm going to tell them, here's what I see, here's what I see. You need to do this. And it just never works as well. So this is just a very simple five simple tips. You know, have them tell you. First of all, have them take it and digest it and then ask them to tell you what they, what they think about their geniuses and their frustrations. Just two, how does this apply in your job? Three, have them look at yours and have them ask you questions. Four, brainstorm with one another about how you can actually lean more into the things you love and maybe not have to do quite as many of the things you don't like. And then finally agree to check in to make this a regular conversation. Simple tips. Simple stuff is usually what works best. And that's all I got. I'm out of time and out of ideas.
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B
Out of time. There's a timer.
- [20:20]
A
All righty. Very good. Hey, thanks, Cody. I appreciate it. We really appreciate the audience. We know that there's so many wonderful consultants out there using this, managers, people using it in all different ways. So we hope this kind of practical stuff helps you, and we'll talk to you next time on the Working Genius podcast. God bless.