← The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni
Loading summary
Transcript107 lines
- [00:00]
Pat Lin Choney
Foreign. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything related to the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm Pat Lin Choney. I'm your host today. Joined by the full crew. Got Tracy, Cody, and Beau. It's good to have you all here. We're all back from vacation. Karen is still on vacation. Matt's producing, though. He's here behind the glass. And what is our topic today, Cody?
- [00:30]
Cody
Questions that activate each genius.
- [00:33]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah, we really struggled with that word activate part of it. We were going to say questions that galvanize each genius and provoke each genius. It's like, how do we bring out the geniuses? And we're really going to leverage something we've talked about before, the cravings. Every genius has a craving, and if we can ask questions that activate that craving, we get the best in those people. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. And this is really interesting because there are certain questions that bring out the best in all of us, but they're very different for every person's genius.
- [01:05]
Cody
And I think, Pat, in a lot of ways, you hope, like, if we have a team that has all the geniuses represented, you hope that they come to the surface just naturally. Oh, if a person loves invention, they would lend their invention to the discussion. But sometimes even when they are represented well, you need to create time and space and. And sort of these sparking moments to invite that stuff. And so I think this is really practical. It's like we. We can't skip any of these steps. And so when we have questions that we can, like you said, provoke people to it, to use their genius, it will help teams. Just that in and of itself, aside from just hoping that it happens naturally.
- [01:45]
Tracy
Yeah, I love these questions. I think we all have felt some degree of stuck, especially when you're an inviting a genius that you don't have. How can you do that? You can't just say, hey, wonder. Can you just wonder for a little bit for us? And so these questions help give a little more specificity to collaborating and creating space for the other geniuses that you might not have at the table.
- [02:06]
Pat Lin Choney
Right. Because if you're a minority genius, because what we've seen is people do the team map and they look at their genius and. And there's this person on the team that they've never really appreciated, and they're like, we need to appreciate their W more because we need W. And then like, like you said, you can't just Go. So do that W thing.
- [02:24]
Tracy
There's.
- [02:24]
Pat Lin Choney
You have to be intentional about what you say and do to bring that out. And what's going to be interesting here is we're going to do this by the six different genius types, but then do the combo and. And how to. How to integrate these questions for somebody who's a, a W and an I or a W and a D or, you know, whatever their combination is, I think that'll be interesting. So let's go through these.
- [02:46]
Tracy
I love it. So, Pat, let's just start with wonder. When you're. If you're working with and collaborating with a wonder, what might be a specific question that you might ask to elicit that genius to spark it?
- [02:58]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah. And we only have one wonder on this. On this podcast, and that's Matt behind the glass. So I want to ask Matt to jump in and tell us if we're getting this right. But one of the questions is, hey, what do you see as the real opportunity or problem that we should be solving for? So it's. It's stepping back and opening it up. And the other thing is, what are we missing here? Is there something that we're missing here? And this gets. And the. The core thing that a wanderer wants is people to consider their perspective. So you have to say, we want to know what you're wondering about right now. And before we go any further, I'm going to say, hey, Matt, does that seem like we're getting at that?
- [03:40]
Matt
Yeah, definitely. Those. Those questions make me. And again, I always. It might be a WD thing, not just a W thing.
- [03:48]
Pat Lin Choney
Right.
- [03:48]
Matt
But those questions definitely make me think that we're addressing the right part of.
- [03:54]
Pat Lin Choney
It and that you're allowed to call things into question rather than being.
- [03:58]
Matt
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Rather than feeling like I'm. Like I'm getting in the way of progress or people actually getting things done and slowing it down, it actually makes me feel like they want my opinion and they want it around the things that I sometimes don't have the ability to question.
- [04:14]
Pat Lin Choney
And that wouldn't happen if we just said, hey, Matt, what's your wonder telling you? You know, it's good to be more specific, right?
- [04:21]
Matt
Yeah. I mean, if I'm asked, what do you think? Sometimes I still would be hesitant to talk about the. To. To back things up and talk about the why or maybe question something that we had already discussed. But if. If the questions are the ones that you. That you just listed, it actually makes me feel like I can say whatever I want, and that it's invited instead of stepping on toes.
- [04:41]
Pat Lin Choney
Right. So when we say, what are we missing? We're actually giving you permission to back us up. We're saying, if we need to back up, Matt, please show us where we need to back up. So you, like you said, you don't feel like you're doing that at your own expense or at taking a risk?
- [04:55]
Matt
Totally.
- [04:56]
Cody
You know, it's interesting, too, Pat, like, if you just think, I don't want to get too nuanced in the model. But we. We have talked on this podcast before about responsive and disruptive geniuses, and it's so interesting that the entire widgetmodel, the six types, start with a responsive genius, because if you're in a room with a team, it's. It's very natural for the disruptive invention to lead the way sometimes, you know, like, without pausing to consider the wonder as the first step in initiating, what direction should we invent towards? And so I love these questions because it does, like you said, it allows you to back up first and respond to the untapped potential or respond to what the wonder has had, like a little yellow flag or pink flag in their gut of, like, this is the real problem we should solve. So I think these questions are excellent at provoking the right stage of work first in saying, let's isolate what the problem is before we ever move on to invention.
- [05:52]
Pat Lin Choney
Right. And we should say a lot of these questions. And this whole concept came from the people who teach our certification classes who work with people. They're getting certified in working genius. And we have thousands of people that are now certified and doing this out there. And when they're teaching these things, this is what's coming out. People are like, we love to be asked these questions.
- [06:11]
Tracy
Love it.
- [06:12]
Pat Lin Choney
Great.
- [06:12]
Tracy
Let's. Let's talk about invention. Pat, we're both inventors, but I'd love for you to speak to. What's the question that could elicit invention on a team? If somebody's collaborating and they see that gap, how could they invite that?
- [06:24]
Pat Lin Choney
Well, you know, but what I love is that if we know the craving, the questions make sense. And the craving that we want is the freedom for somebody to say, I'm going to give you the freedom to come up with ideas without restraint, because when you're inventing and you feel like you don't have that freedom, it's hard. So. So here's the one of the questions that they came up with. We're stuck here. What are your ideas and thoughts on how to solve this like, please exercise your freedom, because we are stuck. What do you got for us? And, man, and you know this, Beau, as an inventor, when somebody asks us that, we feel like we're walking into a candy store and they're like, eat whatever you want.
- [07:07]
Tracy
I was going to say, it feels like being invited to a playground of, like, go take this blank slate. Do anything you want. We're not here to shoot down your ideas. We're actually inviting you to be creative. What are the wild ways that we might be able to solve this?
- [07:21]
Cody
Yeah, it's sort of interesting, Pat, because, you know, we talk about, like, oh, there are no. No bad questions. You know, the wonder might. It's. It's actually really great to say, like, hey, wonder a bunch of these questions. Just like, there are no bad ideas in the. In the sense that if you have the freedom to come up with ideas, we have not gotten to discernment yet. And sometimes more ideas help us get further along to discernment. And so I love when you talk about the freedom of it, because the goal isn't saying, like, only come up with quality ideas. It's like, we might go through a lot of iterations of this idea to make sure we get to the best, most quality one.
- [07:58]
Pat Lin Choney
Yes. And when an inventor knows that the moment the invention is coming out of their mouth, somebody is discerning it. Or worse yet, a DT is discerning it for its reality. Like, no, we don't have the budget for that. We could never get that done. We tried that two years ago, and it didn't work. Then you're kind of like, you're. You're gun shy. And I think that's. I think that's what this is about is like, how do we ask questions that don't make someone gun shy about engaging?
- [08:23]
Tracy
I love that. And I think the first of all, Cody, I've definitely had a lot of bad ideas, so I appreciate the sentiment that there's no bad ideas, but I've had plenty. You know, you should know better by now.
- [08:33]
Cody
I retract my statement. Yeah, I've been in rims with you.
- [08:36]
Tracy
I love that you brought up responsive, disruptive. Because as inventors, we know our invention is disruptive, and that question invites the disruption because we know what it's like. We've seen the look on the DT's faces when we go to the whiteboard, and they're like, what is he about to try to convince me over, sell me on? And so inviting. It creates this. Okay, there's no pressure. They actually Want me to do this?
- [08:58]
Beau
Yeah, we were. We were talking about this when we were prepping for the podcast. This is like your love language, and I love that. Cody, you talked about the responsive, disruptive, especially for the disruptive folks. Because like you said, Beau, you come alive when I ask you these types of questions. I've seen it Pat, with you. I've worked with you for so many years. You're just like the kid in the candy store. Like you said, when these questions are asked.
- [09:25]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah, it is true. It is true. And what a great thing to be intentional and go, hey, let's give him. And by the way, and when you're in a different phase of work and you don't want to activate them, don't ask these questions. Don't go, hey, do you want to look inside the candy store? You can't eat there. Let's keep the candy store door closed, because right now, this is not a good time to let them in.
- [09:47]
Tracy
Okay, so, Tracy, after invention comes discernment. And you're a discerner. Actually, all three of you are discerners. But I'm asking, Tracy, what's the question that we could ask to solicit or activate the discerner?
- [09:59]
Beau
Yeah. So the first question is, I trust your intuition. Could I hear your perspective on whether you think this idea will work? That is. That question is so fantastic. It's so on the nose.
- [10:12]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah. And you know what? It does. And I think about you. I mean, I'm a discerner, too. So are you, Cody, and Matt is. But it for you, Tracy, I know that you don't want to rain on someone's parade, and when you say, hey, it's time, if there's rain that needs to fall in this parade, please shower us with that rain, as opposed to making you feel guilty for doing it.
- [10:33]
Beau
That's right. And that. That speaks to the craving I crave. We crave trust. And by you asking that question, it's it. It says you trust me.
- [10:43]
Pat Lin Choney
Right? You know, when I think about, like, one of the things that you do, which is so much discernment, is you edit my books. And people that hear that think it's like copy editing. Like, there's a comma here. No, no, no. I'm like, you are the guide. I send you a chapter. And when I send it to you, you know that I'm saying I really want to know what you think. I'm not asking for your encouragement. I'm not asking you to affirm me. Your job is to do it. So there's no hesitance on your part to say, oh, no, this doesn't work.
- [11:13]
Beau
Sure. Exactly.
- [11:14]
Pat Lin Choney
So you have that trust.
- [11:16]
Beau
Yes.
- [11:17]
Cody
You know, Pat, as we're going through this, I think it's really interesting that one of the things we talk about being the very foundation of teamwork is vulnerability. And when you ask questions, it is, in essence, being vulnerable. You don't have the answer to that question. You're saying, hey, you're better at this than me. You know what? Krista, one of our great consultants who helped put this together, she once said to me, as a dg, I have a tendency to, like, hey, here's what we should do, and just move along. And she said, you know, curiosity is vulnerability, like you being curious and not knowing. And so I love. As you go through these, it's like sort of inviting people into their genius is also building trust by being vulnerable, saying, like, I don't know the answer, but you have great intuition. I trust that. Will you help us refine this? Will you help us, like, select the right idea that it's so interesting that just those questions can help build the cohesion on the team?
- [12:12]
Pat Lin Choney
Absolutely. Again, being intentional and giving people permission. I'm. I'm loving this, because as I'm thinking about this more, these should be right on my desk. When I'm working with people and I know they're working geniuses, how can I allow them to play in the way that gives them joy? And these are, like, the keys to opening the door for them.
- [12:32]
Cody
It's funny, just this morning, Pat, Bo, and I were in a different room of the office, and Alan came In after about 90 minutes of meetings, and he. Alan, on our team, is an enablement and tenacity et implementation, all about implementation. And he. He came in, he goes, oh, boy, that was a lot of discernment for a Wednesday morning. Like, after this meeting.
- [12:51]
Pat Lin Choney
And.
- [12:52]
Cody
And I was like, oh, man, I wish I could have been in there, you know? And he's like, I should have pulled you in there. And it really is such a gift. Like, what? He came in exhausted by. I was like, oh, Alan, if you had come to me and say just for even five minutes, hey, can you help us refine this idea? Or one. You know, the question that you just asked Tracy, I trust your intuition. Can I hear your perspective? That would have been life giving to me and actually preserve some of Alan's, you know, fulfillment and joy for the rest of the day.
- [13:21]
Pat Lin Choney
You know, deep down inside, I think we. We wonder or. And I don't even. I don't even think it's conscious, but there's a part of us that. That asking somebody to do something that we don't like, even when we know they like it, I think I still feel guilty. Like, if I were to ask Alan to do something for me, I'm like, oh, man, I feel so bad. And he's like, are you kidding? I love this. And there's part of me deep down inside that goes, you don't really love this, do you? Because I wouldn't love that. And we have to really realize his treasure is my trash, and we can actually give each other our trash, and it's their treasure. And what a wonderful thing in life when people will take one another's trash and turn it into their own treasure.
- [14:03]
Tracy
I felt that yesterday, Pat. I at least once a week called Tracy. And every time, I'm like, I don't want to disrupt her. She's got a lot going on, a lot on her plate. And then she'll pick up cheerfully every time, and I'll say, hey, I'm dialing for discernment. And then I can just hear the smile on the other side of the phone. I'm like, oh, she loves to get to speak and discern things. Yeah, Way better, especially for her as a double responsive. Way better for the discernment to be invited than to try to force it on somebody. And so just being able to say, hey, I've got some ideas I'd love for you to help make better is like is and allows us to be able to use her genius without exhausting her having to disrupt or force that discernment on us.
- [14:43]
Pat Lin Choney
What's funny? You use the word disrupt twice, and not even in the working genius kind of way. I just don't want to disrupt her. But it's like if you're disrupt and you're double disruptive, but if you're disrupting somebody in order to activate their genius, that doesn't feel like a disruption to them. That's like, oh, you're, you're, you're. You're turning me loose.
- [15:01]
Tracy
That's right.
- [15:01]
Pat Lin Choney
So it's one thing that's. That's not actually disruptive in the non working genius sense. It's, it's. It's a wonderfully inviting thing.
- [15:09]
Tracy
Let's talk about galvanizing. So I don't know, do you have to invite galvanizing or do. Do us galvanizers just do it without being invited? I'm not sure, but.
- [15:17]
Pat Lin Choney
Well, this is the interesting thing is when we were on the thesaurus looking for the right word for this, and we settled with how to activate each genius, the word galvanize came up too. So this is probably particularly important for galvanizers to know. Like, if you want to galvanize people, here's the thing. How you can galvanize them by asking the right question. But how do you galvanize a galvanizer? Right. Well, I think again, it's giving them permission. And what does a galvanizer really crave? They want a response. They want to know that when they galvanize, somebody's going to respond. So one of the questions is, hey, we need to get this moving. Can you help us rally everybody around this? In other words, don't feel guilty for pushing people out of their comfort zone a little bit and being what other people would consider over the top. But for you, it's needed and you're good at it, you know, so to ask somebody, please rally us, we're looking for that, you know, that you're going to get a response because it's being asked of you.
- [16:18]
Cody
You know, Pat, I hope everybody that's listening to this is having the same experience I'm having is like when you got to discernment and galvanizing, my two geniuses, that question that you just asked, if you were like, hey, we need to get this moving, can you help us rally everyone around it? I even the fake ask of that question, I'm like, oh, I can't wait. I bet I can get them going, you know, and so, so I didn't have that response to wonder or necessarily to invention. And I hope as people are listening to this, that invitation to spark, that it should compel you to want to jump in. I was like, what project is it that I can go galvanize people around? It sounds really life giving.
- [16:57]
Tracy
This is a great manipulation tool, actually, I'm learning is if I need Cody's attention, I can just say, hey, Cody, we need to get this moving. But before we get it moving, we need all these boxes moved.
- [17:06]
Pat Lin Choney
So. Exactly. If you're using this dishonest like anything else, if you're using it dishonestly, it's not good, but it really is. Here's a tool for how to use this dishonestly. But you're going to lose friends and people are going to be pissed off.
- [17:21]
Tracy
Yeah.
- [17:21]
Pat Lin Choney
But you know, this reminds me of when, how this whole thing came about because every day I was coming to work and having to galvanize and because it's not a Genius of mine, I hated rallying the troops when I thought they didn't want to be rallied. Whereas if we say, hey, Cody, I think everybody's a little bit, you know, lethargic today, or we need you to rally them, he's like, oh, yeah, I love doing that. But even when people asked me to do it every day, it was burning me out because I was like, oh, I don't love that. That is not my treasure. So interesting. The other question we have is like, hey, it feels like everybody's kind of going in different directions right now. Can you help us get realigned around what's most important? Now, let me be very clear about this. That is not the same as saying you'd figure out what's most important.
- [18:08]
Tracy
That's right.
- [18:09]
Pat Lin Choney
It says, we've already determined what's most important. Can you get us re centered around that? Because if we're asking Sammy, can you help us figure out what's most important, then that goes back to the D. And for Cody, that's a DG thing. I mean, that would be a party for him. I think we've forgotten what's most important. Cody, we need to rally around that. Can you help us figure out what's essential and then get everybody going? That's like the. That's the dg. Wonderful question. For some people, they're like, well, I don't know what's most important, but if it's the same thing we decided last week, then, yeah, I'll just get people moving around that. Does that make sense?
- [18:42]
Cody
Totally. And I think, you know, in our language, the what's most important, the rallying cry we collectively discern together, you know, so that a lot of times that happens on teams. Like, we've decided maybe it's two months ago that this is the most important thing. Well, two months later, people are moving in all sorts of different directions. And as a galvanizer being asked to say, hey, let's recircle the wagons and focus on the thing that we said we were going to focus on. Sounds incredible. And sometimes I'll even go a step further, Pat, and say, here's how I do that. And I sometimes just use working genius and retrace all of our steps. I'll say, hey, here was the problem we were trying to solve, what we wondered about. Here's a bunch of solutions we came up with. We decided on this one, remember? You know, so we went through invention and then discernment, and now we're like. And now we need everybody, you know, marching in the same direction around what we decide is the most important. So even sort of contextualizing that all the way back down so that people really are marching towards the same thing.
- [19:39]
Tracy
Yeah, I love us.
- [19:42]
Pat Lin Choney
How to galvanize a galvanizer. Those are two questions to do that.
- [19:45]
Tracy
So I love how we're tying this to what people crave and are crushed by. So let's talk about enablement. And the thing that the enablement genius craves is appreciation. Right. They crave that being seen as crushing to them when they are overlooked. So with that in mind, Tracy, enablement is one of your geniuses. What are the questions that help spark or activate that genius of enablement?
- [20:10]
Beau
So the first question is, this project needs support and momentum. Can you help us get started? So that is just a natural. Hey, we need help. Can you help us? I love that question, because I will be the first one to step up.
- [20:26]
Pat Lin Choney
You know what's amazing, Tracy, though? That question is, so the nuance of this. This project needs support and momentum. Can you get everybody excited? Oh, that. You don't want that.
- [20:35]
Cody
No.
- [20:37]
Pat Lin Choney
Can you help us get started by jumping in and. And. And. And helping us? So it's a very important nuance because for you, the G is in your working frustration.
- [20:49]
Beau
Yep.
- [20:50]
Pat Lin Choney
So, like, get up there and tell everybody they have to work harder. You're like, couldn't I just start working harder?
- [20:56]
Beau
That's right.
- [20:57]
Pat Lin Choney
Which is important to understand.
- [20:59]
Cody
You could say, too, that if the end of that sentence was, can you help us get it finished? That doesn't speak to the. To the enable. Enablement genius either. It's the initial momentum, the initial stage of implementation. And so, Tracy, it wouldn't resonate with you the same way if it said, can you help us get this all the way done as much as it does get started? Right?
- [21:22]
Beau
Absolutely. Yeah. That's. That's really important to recognize, because a lot of people get the E and the T confused. I do not. I like to start the support and the momentum around things, but I don't like to get it across the finish.
- [21:36]
Pat Lin Choney
Line, which is not to say that you can't, because you're really good at that, but it doesn't give you joy and energy. And if we rely on you to do that all the time, we're going to burn you out. You know what I'm noticing is that if the neighboring geniuses can sound alike until you get to the essence of it, because as I was reading that this project needs support and momentum. Can you help us finish it? No, I Mean, can you help us get everybody else excited now? Can you help us by diving in and getting it started? Yeah. So the nuances are very real.
- [22:06]
Tracy
Tracy, if somebody asked that question, like, I need support, can you help me? Would that also invite the same level of activation from somebody with enablement?
- [22:17]
Beau
Yes. For me, absolutely.
- [22:20]
Tracy
It's so interesting, Cody, you had just said when you asked the right question about our geniuses, even as we're recording this, it's making me energized. And enablement's probably my sixth genius. When you read that question, even though it's right in front of me in the same handout, I felt dread. I felt this, like, we need help getting this thing, having to be supported and getting it started. Could you help? I felt tired just you asking that question.
- [22:47]
Pat Lin Choney
Hey, you know what I want to do? I want to start, I want to go back to this question and think about how the second part of it could be asked in a totally different way for every genius. This project needs support and momentum. Can you help us figure out if we were missing something and that's why we don't have support? That'd be the W1.
- [23:05]
Cody
Right.
- [23:05]
Pat Lin Choney
Can you help us think of a new way to go about this so people would like it more would be the invention. Can you help us rethink why people might be frustrated this and. And who should dive in more? You know, I mean, like, because the beginning of the question makes me excited. It's the second half that either crushes me or gets me going.
- [23:26]
Cody
Yeah.
- [23:27]
Pat Lin Choney
And in this one, for an, for people with enablement, it's like, can you just help? Can you help? Like, yes. What do you need me to do?
- [23:38]
Cody
And you know, Pat, I think the one other nuance that I've noticed as we sort of extricate the difference between enablement and tenacity is enablement is a very people focused want to support, and tenacity happen tends to be more project focus. So, like, when you hear support, and this kind of lends us off to the second question, it says we need help anticipating how this project will impact others. Can I get your perspective? There's a very people centered approach to enablement, whereas there is a very task oriented, project centered approach to tenacity. And Tracy, does that resonate with you more?
- [24:19]
Beau
That absolutely resonates with me. I'm working on a big project for us right now around our move. We're getting a new office in Tennessee.
- [24:28]
Pat Lin Choney
And.
- [24:28]
Beau
And my motives, I actually have to get stuff across the finish line, but my motives are all around people. They're all around the. Our employees in Tennessee and how this is going to impact them. So it has very little to do with the task, but I'm motivated by the feelings that they're going to get when they're. When they're there. And so absolutely, Cody and people with.
- [24:51]
Pat Lin Choney
Tenacity and nobody associated with this podcast right now, the six of us that would be associated with this have tenacity, but people with tenacity love getting it done. The task itself, finishing it gives them joy, and we have to believe that and know that to draw them out. But, Cody, I don't want to glance over the. Or lose the second question that you said there. The second question for enablement is we need help anticipating how this project will impact others. Can we get your perspective? And basically what we're saying is about how do you think this matters to people? And people with enablement usually have a sense of that.
- [25:31]
Tracy
I love it. Well, that's all the geniuses. Good episode today. Let's talk about tenacity. How do we spark tenacity?
- [25:44]
Pat Lin Choney
Cody, nobody here has tenacity.
- [25:47]
Tracy
Yeah, we have to do this all the time. We actually have to invite tenacity of the teammates around us and try to.
- [25:52]
Pat Lin Choney
Tracy and I were just talking about one of our colleagues today that has tenacity and Alan has tenacity, and it is really easy for us to lose sight of them, which is crazy because they're the ones who finish things, and we all know how desperately we need them, but we need to not only know how much we need them, we need to understand how to feed them and to draw them out. So the first question is, hey, based on what we're trying to accomplish here, what do we need to think through and what deep details might we be missing? We want you to tell us where we're. We're. We're not complete here. You're allowed to. To essentially castigate us a little bit about what's missing and what's going to prevent us from finishing this so they don't feel guilty for saying, come on, you guys, don't you know that this is never going to work? We have to say, hey, tell us what's preventing us from getting this finished. We need you to do that. And you're not. You're not a pain in the butt to us. You're actually serving us by doing that.
- [26:46]
Tracy
So I have a question about that. Is that only tenacity or is that discernment plus tenacity? To be able to see what Tasks are essential to get done versus all the tasks that might need to get done. Does that question make sense?
- [27:00]
Pat Lin Choney
Yes. And there may be some discernment baked into that. Although at some level, people with tenacity have this ability to go, I'm supposed to finish this, and I don't think it's realistic because I need these tactical things thing. So maybe it depends on what we're asking them for.
- [27:18]
Cody
When I think it goes back to what tenacity craves, which is clarity. So it's really like the project plan, like, hey, can we get, can you help us get really clear on if we were to get this over the finish line, what that, what that would look like, you know, and so I think that's everything from resources and timelines and project management stuff that people with tenacity, probably that's how their brains work. And maybe there is a little discernment baked in there. But I think a lot of times, Pat, when you talked earlier about, like, if we're in the invention or discernment phase, they're already thinking about tactics. And this is now where we say, like, we want to invite that. How do we have the plan? We figured out what the right thing is, or we have the right idea rather, and we need the plan to execute on. How can you help us with that?
- [28:05]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an interesting thing. Now, if we said, hey, help us figure out whether or not this still makes sense. And if we didn't evaluate the goals correctly at the beginning, that might be leading more into the discernment part. Of course, a DT would go, hey, I want you to ask me about both.
- [28:24]
Tracy
Right?
- [28:25]
Pat Lin Choney
The second question is, can you help us get this done? Basically, can you help us move this initiative to completion? And look at that sentence. How many? How many? That's nine words. Can you help us move this initiative to completion? Tracy would go, oh, help us. Oh, if you need help. And they're like, move this to completion. Yes, different words are going to resonate this. Well, I'm going to give them permission to do whatever they have to, to push us through.
- [28:54]
Cody
And it's probably really interesting the way Tracy talked about anticipating how people are going to feel in the new office, you know, as a discerner, enabler. And if you gave that project to Jackie, who has galvanizing into nasty and said, can you help us move this to completion? It would be very task oriented. It would be like, well, they need Internet and they need a desk and they need to make sure that the doors are open when they get there, you know, and. And she would get all that done. But it's a totally different approach to getting a project, you know, all the way through to completion versus. Versus the people oriented side of the enablement. Genius.
- [29:29]
Pat Lin Choney
Right, Right. I hope we'll just kind of to take the word from the people that put this together that that satisfies the people with tenacity, because none of us have that. But I do think people with tenacity would go, yeah, you know, and here's another one. Can you do. Can you make tell us anything you need us to do to get this finished? Yeah, I think a person with tenacity would be like, oh, thank you. So I don't have to dance around things. You want it finished? Let me not hold back anything that is necessary to get that done. That's permission to be the most disruptive of all the geniuses.
- [30:05]
Tracy
Yeah. This is great, fun conversation.
- [30:08]
Pat Lin Choney
Yeah, I love it. Hey, can we put these questions in the show notes? Can we do that, Matt?
- [30:13]
Cody
Thumbs up by Matt.
- [30:15]
Tracy
We can also link to this PDF.
- [30:18]
Pat Lin Choney
Oh, that would be great.
- [30:20]
Beau
Yeah, I think we should share the whole PDF. It's fantastic.
- [30:23]
Pat Lin Choney
All right. This has been fun. I love this, and I want to thank Krista and everybody else who helped Jonathan, I think, and everybody else who put this together and thank everybody who's listening. This is really fun. This podcast is growing faster than anything we're doing, and we appreciate that and we love your feedback and we will talk to you next time on the Working Genius podcast. God bless.