81. What's Your Third?

Summary

The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni

Episode 81: What's Your Third?
Date: August 21, 2024
Host: Patrick Lencioni
Guests: Cody, Beau, Tracy, Karen, Matt

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Pat Lencioni and his team delve into a nuanced discussion about the "third letter" in the Working Genius profile—the competency that sits just outside your two "genius" gifts. The conversation centers on how this third area of competency influences the way our main geniuses manifest and interact with others, why it's often misunderstood, the risks of overusing it, and how teams can leverage this knowledge for better teamwork, hiring, and personal well-being.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What is the "Third" Letter? (00:27)

• The third letter in your Working Genius profile represents your primary competency. It's a skill area you perform well and can rely on, but it doesn’t give you energy and fulfillment like your true geniuses do.
• Understanding this third competency is critical because it “colors” and influences how your true geniuses show up, both for yourself and in the eyes of others.
• Pat Lencioni:
  “That third letter can be so important because it really colors how the first two letters show up, and yet it’s not one of your geniuses... knowing that third letter in someone really helps you to interpret how those first two letters, their genius pairing, is going to show up." (00:27)

The Coffee Cup Metaphor for Genius, Competency, and Frustration (01:10)

• Pat Lencioni:
  • Your genius = "A Yeti mug: pour hot coffee, screw the lid on—stays hot all day. Lots of energy.”
  • Your frustration = "A coffee cup with a hole—energy leaks out instantly.”
  • Your competency = "A paper coffee cup: stays warm for a while, usable, but not like a genius. You don’t get sustained energy."
• Cody:
  “We are most likely to accidentally overuse the first competency that somebody else has because it can stay hot for a while.” (01:57)

How the Third Letter “Colors” Your Genius (02:27 – 05:06)

• The competency isn’t your main gift, but it’s easy to slip into, sometimes leading others (and yourself) to misinterpret your actual strengths.

• Example: Tracy’s tenacity as a competency “influences my discernment and enablement,” making them look a little different from someone whose third is invention or wonder.

• Pat:
  "When I invent and discern things, I often look like I'm actually galvanizing people… I have to tell people all the time, 'Hey, I'm I-D here, I promise I'm not G.'” (02:44)

• Situational examples:

  • Cody: Sometimes looks like an “inventor” because invention is his third, but it’s more “micro-innovation” alongside his main genius (discernment/galvanizing). (03:53)
  • The third letter can cause two people with the same top two geniuses to behave quite differently.

Impact on Team Dynamics and Hiring Decisions (07:17 – 08:29)

• In hiring, understanding the third letter is valuable for assessing versatility and flexibility in potential candidates—especially when comparing people with similar genius profiles.
• Pat:
  “So often I’m like, well, maybe they’re not perfect, but if they have it as a third, we know they’re going to be able to understand what we need, and they’re going to be able to translate and… work on a team and understand people like that.” (07:17)

Burnout from Overusing Your Third

• There’s a common trap of overusing your competency zone because you or others think you're “good at it”—but doing so leads to burnout.
• Pat:
  “Don't ever mistake a person's third or your own for your genius, because that is the recipe for burnout. Tracy and I both got burned out … other people saw our third, and so they put us to work in our third all the time, and it led to burnout.” (07:56)

Responsive vs. Disruptive Dynamics & Nuanced Personality Differences (05:48 – 09:36)

• The order and nature of your third letter can influence whether you show up as more “responsive” (e.g., enablement, tenacity, wonder) or “disruptive” (e.g., invention, galvanizing, discernment).
• This influences not only your work style but also how others perceive your contributions.
• Pat:
  “Matt is a WD and his third is E, so he's a triple responsive. Whereas I realize … I'm definitely more of a disruptive person than responsive.” (05:48)

The Value of Conversation About Your Third (10:13 – 10:38)

• Asking teammates “What’s your third?” can be valuable—promotes self-awareness, helps avoid mistakes in role placement, and deepens team understanding.
• Pat:
  “Go talk to people about this and say, how does your third influence you and show up and how tempted are you to slide it into your... Or do you over-index on it? … Having a conversation like, what's your third? And how does it impact you? … Not that we're going to make them do it all the time, but the last thing you want to do is put a person in a role where they're going to have to go to their third a lot, and it's the wrong one.” (10:13)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pat Lencioni:
  “When I am invent and discern things, I often look like I’m actually galvanizing people to take action because it leaks in there pretty easily...” (02:44)
• Cody:
  “We are most likely to accidentally overuse the first competency that somebody else has because it can stay hot for a while.” (01:57)
• Pat Lencioni:
  “Don't ever mistake a person's third or your own for your genius, because that is the recipe for burnout.” (07:56)
• Pat Lencioni:
  “Go talk to people about this and say, how does your third influence you and show up and how tempted are you to slide it into your... Or do you over-index on it?” (10:13)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:27 – Introduction to the “third” letter/competency concept
• 01:10 – Coffee cup metaphor for genius, competency, and frustration
• 02:27 – How third letter influences or “colors” your genius
• 03:53 – Example: Invention as a third and its impact
• 05:06 – Real-world examples (team members’ profiles and practical implementation)
• 05:48 – “Responsive vs. disruptive” genius types and how the third can tip the balance
• 07:17 – Practical implications in hiring and team placement
• 07:56 – The burnout risk from mistaking your competency for your genius
• 10:13 – The importance of conversation and self-awareness in teams about the third letter

---

Practical Takeaways

• Be aware of your own and others’ third (competency) area—don’t let it masquerade as a genius or be overused.
• Use knowledge of the third competency for better hiring, team assignments, and avoiding burnout.
• Foster open conversation among team members about how their third shapes their work and demeanor.

---

Tone & Style

Conversational, practical, insightful, and sprinkled with humor and real-life anecdotes. Pat shares relatable stories about personal burnout, while the team bounces ideas, examples, and a bit of playful ribbing around the table.

---

Bottom Line

Your “third” letter—your main competency—is critical for understanding how your gifts show up in the world, but don’t confuse it for your genius. Use it wisely for personal and team success, but beware of burnout from living in your competency zone too long. Start the conversation with your team: “What’s your third?”

---

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything related to the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm Pat Lincione, your host today, joined by Cody, Beau, Tracy, everybody in house. We've got Karen sitting next to me and Matt behind the glass producing Cody. What's the topic today?

[B]

What's your third?

[A]

That's right. We're going to talk about what is the third letter in your working genius profile. That third letter is so important. Now, this is going to be a very nuanced discussion. If this is the first time you've ever heard us talk about working genius, this might be a little confusing because this is for people that are really wrestling with the nuances. But that third letter can be so important because it really colors how the first two letters show up, and yet it's not one of your geniuses. And it can look easy and it can be something you drift into, but it's a competency. But knowing that third letter in someone really helps you to interpret how those first two letters, their genius pairing, is going to show up. And that's what we're going to talk about today.

[C]

I wonder if we just take 30 seconds and say a little bit more about competencies. I love in your speech, Pat, you often talk about the three different ways in a cup of coffee. And maybe you could just unpack that to help people remind them of your geniuses, competencies, and frustrations.

[A]

Yeah. And I like to say that your genius is like pouring hot coffee into a yeti mug and screwing the lid on and it stays hot all day. You can hold your energy and of course, your frustration is the coffee cup you pour it into, and it's got a hole in the bottom. It leaks out right away. But your working competency is that typical coffee cup you get at the store and you pour coffee in it and put a lid on it, it'll stay warm for a while and you can. You can. It's good. You'll drink it. It's. The problem with that is it is so different than your genius. But knowing what that is tells us a lot about how your geniuses are going to show up.

[C]

Yeah. And to use that metaphor, it's like that cup of coffee in that Starbucks cup or that paper cup stays hot for a little while. And what we've seen is we are most likely to accidentally overuse the first competency that somebody else has because it can stay hot for a while. On this call, Tracy is the person that has the Most tenacity, even though it's a competency for her. So it's not what's going to give her joy and energy, but we're likely to be able to use that.

[D]

My tenacity, I think it actually influences my discernment and enablement. I think the way my discernment and enablement look is slightly different than someone who might have invention as their third or even wonder as their third.

[A]

Oftentime when I meet people, I, I will say, hey, what's your genius? And they'll tell me and then I'm talking to them and I'll go, what are your competencies? Because I want to understand how those are connected to those. Because like I'm an inventor, discerner, I'm an id, but my third is galvanizing. And we don't need to talk about the post traumatic stress that I've had from, from doing too much galvanizing in my life. But when I am invent and discern things, I often look like I'm actually galvanizing people to take action because it leaks in there pretty easily and I have to tell people all the time, hey, I'm eyeing here. I promise I'm not g. Because it sounds like let's do it. I mean that happened just this morning on a call. So we need to understand that third thing can color things a little bit and can actually confuse people or, or, or mislead people about what we want.

[C]

Whereas if you were an ID and tenacity was your third, you might go write something, type it up, finish it and have it sitting on a conference table having not been galvanized or shared about. Right. Two people can have the same geniuses and I love the idea of it coloring it or it flavoring it a little bit differently.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

My geniuses are discernment and galvanizing and a very close third. And my first competency is invention. And so when, when I'm in a room and maybe Bo's gone or not, not involved in the conversation, I can do some invention that. And it looks a little bit like micro innovation because really all I'm doing is discerning. That's my primary way of interacting with the, with the work. Right. But because I have that little bit of third relatively close, it can look to other people who don't have invention at all in their first, you know, four letters. Like, hey, are you sure you're not an inventor? And that's not. And so it does actually lend itself. It does color even the discernment where it's not total blank slate, new innovation the way if somebody had it as a. As a genius, but it is sort of micro. Oh, I'm discerning right now and I can innovate as I'm going, you know. And I think somebody who doesn't have who's. Who is a D. I've met DGS with tenacity as a third person, which by the way is like a version 2.0 of A. Of a discerner galvanizer. I'm jealous of that genius, but. But they show up rather differently than just because of that third. That third letter.

[C]

We have a couple different ETs on our team and of course they're Myers, Briggs and you know, some other. Their story, their wound, all of those things can color some of the experience with them too. But it has really stood out to us. Alan in our office is in ET and W is his third. And so he is a dutiful, loyal finisher. He can get things across the finish line and is pretty good at continuing to pay attention to the potential, the climate, the landscape of what he is finishing. Whereas somebody that has galvanizing as their third is more like pushing us and rallying us as they're in reminding people about as they're getting things across the finish line.

[A]

Yeah, and it reminds me too that that third influence is like if you're more of a responsive versus disruptive. Like Matt is a WD and his third is E, so he's a triple responsive. Whereas I realize I just. This is the first time I've thought of this. I'm an id, so I'm one responsive, one disruptive, but my next one is G. And I'm definitely more of a disruptive person than responsive. So that's kind of the tiebreaker too on those next two. And that's really does influence how we show up.

[D]

I think I would say Pat also in the stages of work as well, because I'm more comfortable moving into implementation because I'm a de and then T is my third, so I can easily go into the implementation phase of work.

[C]

Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that can come up in working genius or any personality or tool like this is you can be jealous of somebody else's genius. And Cody, you just kind of mentioned that with dg, I have felt that way. I have a friend, Sean, who's an inventor, galvanizer, like me, but his third is enablement. And I can't tell you how many times I've introduced somebody to Sean and they've said, oh, yeah, we have the same geniuses. And they say something like, oh, really? He's so kind. So anyway, same geniuses, but again, it can color kind of how his invention shows up to help somebody else. How is galvanizing shows up in service of other people and get them moving?

[A]

You know, I think that using this, understanding the third is so important in hiring. I think it's so important in hiring because we don't often get the perfect genius or there's two people with the same genius that we're looking at, but that third will often be the thing that we know that they can slide into that next area. And so, so often I'm like, well, maybe they're not perfect, but if they have it as a third, we know going to be able to understand what we need, and they're going to be able to translate and they're going to be able to work on a team and understand people like that. And so as much as we've said over the years that it's your first two geniuses that matter most, that that the indicator of your third is. Is really important for maybe where they're going to be versatile and flexible. However, I say that, and I want to continue the warning. Don't ever mistake a person's third or your own for your genius, because that is the recipe for burnout. Tracy and I both got burned out because we thought that, well, we're pretty good at our third, and other people saw our third, and so they put us to work in our third all the time, and it led to burnout. And now we have this fear that we're going to get dragged back into that full time.

[B]

And I think it's interesting, Pat, the way that it's coloring the conversation based on how you interpret people, because it is. It certainly could. What you just said is how you contribute on teams. You know, the idea, though, that BO is an IG with discernment as a third. My brother is an IG with discernment as a third. And then. And they show up relatively similarly. And then. But. But I liked your nuance. I thought maybe if you were questioning what the order of your third was because people like, hey, on the test, it does. Does it go in order? Like, I have two yellow letters that represent competency. I thought your point that you just made around responsive, disruptive might be one of the ways to help people determine what their third might be. Because, you know, I guess. Well, I'll just pose this as a question. I have discernment, a Responsive genius, then galvanizing a response or a disruptive genius and then just asking the question, am I more responsive or disruptive on teams?

[A]

Yeah. There's no way that you're an E or a W. Right. Because you're more disruptive and you know that you're not a T. Right. I mean, so even if we were just backing it out of that, but. But then again, you also know, yeah, I kind of like inventing, and I'm pretty good at it.

[B]

But I do show up as disruptive on more. I have a bigger slant toward disruption. And even if that were the only observation you were making, you're not saying, like, well, how does the specific letter impact it? It might just be. Well, that might show up as whether they're responsive or disruptive. You just talked about Sean being an E and being very kind is like, he's a little more reserved and not quite as, like, emphatic and disruptive as you are, Bo. And that. And that is, like, an interesting thing to observe. Like, that just colors of the nuance between the two.

[C]

And he's kinder. Just in case you didn't know that.

[A]

You know something, I think that the question some people might have is like, so what do we do with this? It's like, go talk to people about this and say, how does your third influence you and show up and how tempted are you to slide it into your. Or are you. Are you insecure about the fact that it's not one of your geniuses?

[C]

Or.

[A]

Or do you over index on it? I think that having a conversation like, what's your third? And how does it impact you? Is. Could be very, very valuable. And there is a place to be able to say, hey, we're going to put you. When we staff our organization. We were just doing some. Making some staffing changes today. We consider the third in terms of where we put them, because we know that when push comes to shove, they can rise to the occasion. Not that we're going to make them do it all the time, but the last thing you want to do is put a person in a role where they're going to have to go to their third a lot, and it's the wrong one. So have that conversation with your teammates. I think it can be really valuable. All righty. Bo, you have some announcements.

[C]

Yeah. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you might know that we have a merch store on workinggenius.com, you can go and get interesting things that will help keep the conversation going and remind people about working genius. And one of those that's new is a desk product where you can actually lay out what your geniuses, competencies, and frustrations are and keep it on your desk so that as people are coming in, they can be reminded of what are the frustrations you have and what your geniuses are.

[A]

And I think it's really cool. It's very nice. We worked for a long time on it because we wanted it to be something you'd keep and put out there. And so you'll get all these letters in green, yellow, and red, and then you'll put in your two geniuses, your two competencies, your third, and your fourth, and then your frustrations. And it really does help remind you and other people. And it's a topic of conversation so that you can apply it meant to be anything more than really an application tool so that people can use this in their regular language and when they go around planning their work. So go to the merch [e-mail] all right, thanks, everybody, for being with us today. We appreciate this. This podcast is growing like crazy, and we love that. And we'll talk to you next time on the Working Genius podcast.

[C]

God bless.