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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast where we discuss anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm Pat Liancione, your host, joined by the all dude crew today. We've got Beau, Cody and Matt. Tracy and Karen are out of the office today, so we're figuring this out without any of their female intuition. So we're going to see what we can come up with here. What's our topic today, Cody?
- [00:34]
B
Off the clock.
- [00:35]
A
Off the clock? Yes. A number of weeks ago, we did an episode about atrophy of our geniuses when we don't use that. And we just talked about why that's not a good thing. Well, we were talking about it today and we were thinking like, so what would you do if. If you couldn't use working genius? And we call it working genius, but it really could be called doing genius because it's not just about your job. But how can you find ways to exercise your genius if you can't do it at work? Sometimes we have a job that's like, hey, sorry, I know you're an inventor, but this job doesn't have a lot of that. And we should always try our best to say, hey, how can I use my invention at work? Or whatever else it is, get our manager to help us do that. But sometimes it's just like, yep, the career I have doesn't give me a lot of exercise around my genius. So we're gonna talk about how to get that exercise outside of work, and we're just gonna go and talk about our lives and give advice around different geniuses of how a person might find a way to exercise. The other thing is, people always often tell us, you need a hobby. And people are like, why don't I wanna do that? Well, usually if you have a great hobby, it should be something that allows you to do what you love to do the most. And golf is not my hobby because it doesn't allow me to use my geniuses. So that probably wouldn't be the thing I would do.
- [01:52]
C
Pat, could you say, this seems like a silly question, but why? Why would we need to use our geniuses off the clock? What is the betterment for us or for others when we do that?
- [02:05]
A
Well, I think there's two things. The first one is we just stay sane and whole and healthy. I mean, when we don't get to exercise. We were talking about this in the office yesterday too. Some people are never recognized for their genius in their whole life until they get to be an adult. In fact, people said, quit doing that. It drives me crazy because they just weren't seen and weren't allowed to do that. And that really screws you up because then you end up having to do things and get good at things that you don't like, and you're avoiding the things that you love. So that's really unhealthy. The other thing is, if you stop exercising that sometime later in your life, you're going to need to use it at work. It'll make you a better person even in a job when you finally get that chance to use it. So not exercising not only leads to atrophy, but it's just really unhealthy for us as people.
- [02:56]
B
Well, I would even say a step further. Pat is like, we talk a lot about work being fulfilling on the show. Like, we want people to be in jobs where they're fulfilled. And so much of that is tied to their working genius and the actual activity that they are required to do at work.
- [03:12]
A
Right.
- [03:12]
B
But when you're in a job where you don't get to exercise that, I mean, it's. I think we, when we use the term work in air quotes, we always think your job, but all of life is work, you know? And so even organizing the work you have outside of your job in a way that plays to your working genius can lead to more joy and fulfillment.
- [03:32]
A
Absolutely. In fact, I just thought of something, you guys, and that is. So I have a book that was originally titled the Three Signs of a Miserable Job. And then we retitled it because everybody was like, we love this book, but we can't take it to work. So we titled it the Truth About Employee Engagement. But I realized that was years before we came up with working genius. In addition to the three things, you need to love your work, which is you need to be known by your manager, you need to know why your job matters, and you need to know if you're doing a good job. If there's no outlet for any of your working geniuses, that could be a miserable job, too. Okay? Now sometimes that's the case. And instead of having just a miserable job, you can have a miserable life. But if you can actually accommodate this in your off the clock hours, that makes it a lot easier to do at work. What might not be your favorite thing? Right.
- [04:20]
C
That's fun. I wonder if we could brainstorm for each other, as by example of, like, what are some things that each of our different genius pairings could do off the clock? We have Four different genius pairings here. But I guess, of course I suggest that because that's inventing. So even though I'm on the clock, I still want to do a little inventing. What do you think about that, Pat?
- [04:37]
A
I love it. So let's not start with wonder. Matt's our resident wonder. That's the hardest one. We're going to let Matt ruminate on this for a little bit and we're going to talk to him about it. But let's start with invention. You and I both have invention now. I get to do it a lot at my job right now, but for years I didn't. My first few jobs involved almost no invention. And I look back and I realize my first job at a college, Beau, was I was working about 65 hours a week on average, sometimes a lot more than that. But so my job would end at like 8:30 or 9:00 clock at night. I would actually stay there for another two hours. People like, why are you still here? Because I was writing screenplays. I did more writing during that time and I realize now it was because I had this innate desire to invent and to come up with new ideas and, and even if it meant I had to stay there at my desk until 11 o' clock at night, at least it was giving me an outlet for doing that. So. So I found a way to do invention outside of my job. What about you, Beau?
- [05:39]
C
Well, inventing is such an odd one because it might be the easiest one to say if you're an inventor, just go invent some ways for you to invent, because there's so many different ways that people could do that. I wonder if you resonate with this, Pat. I also, I get up early in the morning and even on the weekends. I love to write. I've done that for a long, long, long time. But it took me a long time to get over that I wasn't being, quote, productive, that I wasn't accomplishing something, that the writing wasn't going anywhere, that it was for my own sake or for its own sake. Do you resonate with that?
- [06:08]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's not good because it can be for its own sake. But we do like to think it's leading to something. Somebody's going to read it, somebody's going to see it. It's going to matter. So I think, like, even when I was writing screenplays, I was like, I really want this mov one day. So if you know that there's just no outlet for it to ever actually Take root. I think that is understandably frustrating.
- [06:34]
C
Yeah, that's a really good tension. Is I want it to be able to serve somebody someday or be useful someday, but I also need to do it almost for its own sake of, like, no, I need to write. I need to create. I need to invent because it's part of what I made to do. Even if I'm not being asked to do it or paid to do it, or even if the people closest to me don't value it or see it.
- [06:55]
A
Oh, absolutely. Exercising it is worth doing. It just helps us to exercise more if we think somebody's going to notice. Like, hey, you're getting a little stronger, aren't you? Your muscles are getting bigger. It's just like, you like to be recognized for actually doing it, but it's really for its own sake.
- [07:10]
B
Isn't it so interesting, too, as. As you guys are having that conversation? How we. And we've talked about this. We can envy people's geniuses at work sometimes. Like, oh, I'm. I wish I could do that. But even in this moment, I was like, oh, yeah, I always. I don't write outside of work, you know, Like, I don't. I don't go home. I don't, like, paint or do something like that. And I've always thought that was, like, my own deficiency. But when you look at it in the context of working genius, it makes sense. Like, oh, that doesn't actually fill me up when I'm not at work, you know, like, so I'm not choosing to do an activity that doesn't bring me joy and fulfillment. And it is a whole new lens to view that through, you know, like, oh, invention is not the thing for me. That level of creativity is not the thing that's gonna bring me joy and energy. So, of course, I don't tend to want to do that when I'm home or when I wake up in the morning.
- [07:59]
A
Exactly, Exactly.
- [08:01]
C
I bet we're about to talk about discernment. But, Cody, I have felt sometimes jealous of you that you'll come to the office and you will have watched some obscure documentary, or Pat will have seen some movie in the movie theater. And I'm like, I should be a better movie critic. I should be. I should see what's going on. Like, they see and the dialogue. And sometimes I feel like, yeah, I kind of watched office reruns again, because it's what I liked. And you guys are out there, you know, deep tracks into documentaries and movies I've never heard of.
- [08:31]
A
Well, you know, it's funny, I was just thinking about this because we talk about this on the podcast a lot, but Cody listens to a lot of podcasts, but it's always something. He's not just random. He's, like, interesting. Like, oh, that's. And he's discerning things and curating ideas. That's what he does. And even though we get to do that at work, he does that all the time, and he enjoys that.
- [08:53]
B
And any podcast where we can say, we can justify my own documentary or podcast listening because of my genius, I'm totally in on if we're here saying that's just me exercising my genius, but it is. Actually. I've joked around with you, Beau, that I'm going to start a podcast called Curated by Cody, because in a lot of ways, like, I. What I'm realizing is when I listen to a podcast or watch a documentary, it's. Somebody had invented a thing, and they're sort of presenting it to me in that format, and I. My favorite thing is actually just picking out the one or two concepts that I thought were brilliant. Like, so Julie on our team often jokes, like, when I say, hey, you need to fill in for me at that meeting, she'll say, I'll just say, well, I was listening to a podcast recently to start every sentence, and that will be my Cody impression. And. But I do think there is something where I love the idea of listening to the entire thing and saying, like, oh, this one moment or this one phrase, this one sentence really stood out to me. And that is discernment.
- [09:55]
A
You know what. What would be other things if somebody said, man, I don't get to use my discernment in my job a lot, but it's one of my geniuses. What would be some other activities we might suggest? Like, well, go do this then.
- [10:05]
D
I've got some thoughts on it that I'm grateful that you gave me the time to think about them because I actually think I have some useful ones.
- [10:12]
A
But.
- [10:12]
D
And these might be tied a little bit to wonder, because like I've said before, it's hard to see, to isolate each from the other. But rearranging things. I love rearranging things. And whether it's the furniture in my living room, whether it's the way cups and plates are stacked in the cabinets in my kitchen, whether it's the books on my bookshelf, it's fun for me to go in and figure out the best way to store things effectively and efficiently. And so when I was thinking about this in terms of discernment, I realized that there's a W aspect of it as well.
- [10:43]
A
I think that's mostly discernment because it is true. It's curating. Like, what would be the best way to prioritize, organize, or put things together?
- [10:52]
D
Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the things that I think it's kind of similar to what Beau said. I don't see it as totally productive because I'm not accomplishing anything. I'm not doing anything super interesting, and it's not that complicated or deep. It's just. It is, though, something I like to do, and that makes me feel accomplished after I do it.
- [11:10]
A
So, Matt, can you think of anything that's uniquely W? Because you're right, it's hard to separate.
- [11:16]
D
So it's related to this, but it is uniquely W. I think with wonder. It's kind of always firing. It's kind of on all the time. And I think in terms of doing those things and exercising the genius, it's about indulging those thoughts. So when I'm walking around and I'm like, I think the main room might, like, maybe if we put the couch this way, or I think if we put the plates on a different shelf, we could actually fit twice the amount of stuff on the shelf below, and it'd be way easier to unload the dishwasher. It's not about, like, the action of doing things, but it's about indulging those thoughts that I have on a regular basis that's saying, oh, this is actually valuable. I'm going to use this, and I'm going to use my discernment in order to accomplish whatever it is that my W is identifying for me.
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A
Interesting. And I like that it's about allowing yourself to say, this is worth doing. And not that it's not productive. It's like, no, indulge that genius.
- [12:15]
D
Yeah. I remember it was a couple weeks ago when I came to your house, and I opened the fridge, and I was like, there's some expired stuff in here, and I don't know why this is on this shelf. And it did feel like I was exercising my geniuses by saying, I'm gonna throw out the stuff that's expired, and I'm gonna rearrange all the other shelves. And even though it's not really accomplishing anything or getting anything notable done, it's, like, fulfilling because I'm getting to exercise both of my geniuses and I'm doing something relatively productive at the same time.
- [12:46]
A
That's great. I Love it. I love it. Yeah. Bo, you were gonna say something?
- [12:49]
C
Well, I have a question for you guys. So, so much of off the clock time might also be relational time. And so I wonder how this plays into our relationships. And I wondered specifically when you were talking about discernment, because I don't have discernment as a genius. But I'm guessing for you three, it's something you also don't get to turn off. And yet, when you are around relationships, discernment is also not always welcome. So I don't know. Tell me about that. When you're off the clock in relationship and your discernment is being used, how do you do that in a way that is still giving you energy, even if it's not. And indulging that discernment, even if it's not something that's specifically being invited?
- [13:29]
D
I love random hypothetical questions. So I don't know if you've ever played the, like, would you rather have muffin hands or Cheeto dust on your fingers all the time? My friends and I, if we're ever just idle or, you know, we're eating dinner or something like that. I love talking about those things. And it, you know, like you described, it does feel like I'm just indulging those thoughts. And it's fun because I have discernment and wonder to play around with those things.
- [13:55]
C
And, Matt, also, you also love lists. I've learned this. If we're at dinner, I'll be like, hey, let's. Who do you think is the greatest of all time at xyz? And you love coming up with a list like that.
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D
Yeah, I'll do that without any provocation. I'll be watching SportsCenter, and somebody will say, oh, I think he's the top 10 defensive back of all time. I'm like, well, now I gotta go into my notes app and figure out who mine are. You know?
- [14:18]
A
That's so funny. That's the discernment. I'm the same way. Sometimes at home, I'll be bored, and I'll come up with my list of top 20 movies in alphabetical order. And I indulge that. And it's like, that's stupid. And it's like, but I love it. I love curating, and that's using the discernment. That's so interesting. And I do love. You know what I say to my wife at home? I say, I love when you ask me questions like, hey, what's your opinion on this? Whatever it is, I'm like, ooh, I Love to share that because I get to process things. So I and D and W, we did all of those. That's very interesting. How about if G. Now we have two people here with G. Is there if you like to galvanize but your job doesn't involve that. How might you exercise that off the clock?
- [15:05]
B
This might be a silly example, but I coached my daughter's 5 year old basketball team and boy, do you get to exercise. Galvanizing over and over and over again. I mean, this was a league where the coach is actually on the floor because the kids are pretty young and they don't quite. They need constant coaching. And so I was literally running up and down the floor and you're, you're telling every person over and over again where they should go and what they should do. And even my wife afterwards would watch the game from the sideline and say, like, isn't that exhausting to you? You know, and because she doesn't have the genius of galvanizing. And the truth is, is it actually was kind of fun. It was fun to be out there and have to repeat myself over and over again and move the kids in the right direction and get them motivated around the right thing. So it was way more fulfilling than I thought it would be.
- [15:57]
A
It's so funny because I was gonna say coaching your kids teams. Now, as a galvanizer, I liked coaching my kids teams because I loved figuring out the game plan and putting them in the right position and inspiring them. But I didn't like to constantly push them because galvanizing wasn't my thing. But if you're a galvanizer and you can't do it at work, go coach. Go do something where somebody is asking you to push them and encourage them and get them moving.
- [16:24]
C
Yeah. Or even just any parenting at all requires galvanizing. The other thing I thought about and Cody, I'm curious to hear you respond to this. Galvanizing goes really well when it's responding to discernment. And so I have found that galvanizing is more invited. When I found things that are like, worth it or that I believe in or that are true, if that makes sense. Like if you find an organization that you really believe in that you. They are, they are standing for something that you value, galvanizing comes more naturally. Does that make sense? Like if you have aligned yourself with something you really believe in that has been discerned, the galvanizing will come out more naturally and be needed.
- [17:05]
A
Yeah, I think it's a good point, Bo. I was Thinking, like, you could just go to the store and tell people what to do, pick up that trash. So it helps when you feel connected to what they're doing. It's also great when somebody values it and says, you. You mean you would volunteer to help people do this?
- [17:24]
B
Totally. I think mine is so connected, dg, because I have both discernment and galvanizing. I mean, this is the reason that when I listen to that podcast, someone with just discernment would be like, that was a really good podcast. And probably. And not need not compulsively need to tell the next 10 people they run into, hey, have you heard this? You know, have you. Have you watched this movie? Have you eaten at that restaurant? I think mine is so connected, where I'm like, oh, that thing is good. I feel compelled because of galvanizing to tell everybody. But I do think that if you're a galvanizer and you, you know, you find. You find some informed discernment of ways that you can leverage your galvanizing to further, like, a cause that you believe in, you totally could exercise it that way.
- [18:08]
A
Yeah. Gosh. I just thought as an id, I could stand on a street corner with a sign like a sandwich board that said, ask me for advice about anything, and I would be so happy. Where should I eat dinner? What should I do with my life? You know, it's, oh, I'm so happy to do this. That's interesting. Okay. That's the galvanizing. Lots of different ways to do that. Finding something you care about. How about enablement? If a person doesn't have. Now, Tracy, before she left today, she said, I think most enablement is pretty available to many people. But if in your job you don't get to do a lot of enablement, what kind of things off the clock might you do?
- [18:45]
B
The overarching meta is just volunteer, Right? That's probably the synonym for enablement. Someone is like, volunteer somewhere, you know, and people will use you because they are so uniquely gifted and enjoy, like, just coming alongside and supporting people. And so whether that's a, you know, a local nonprofit or a, you know, a place where kids need some mentorship or something like that, I mean, I bet is would love any of those environments.
- [19:17]
C
Yeah. I wonder if we've talked about what each genius craves and is crushed by. And it could be that your enablement at work is needed but not seen or not appreciated. And so I wonder what it would look like to. And this might sound selfish, but I think it could be really good to find A place where your enablement is seen and recognized and thanked. Respond to that. What do you think about that?
- [19:43]
A
No, I think it's absolutely true. Because not only do we have a need to exercise it, but to be recognized for it and to be known for it. And that's the beauty of many volunteer jobs. I mean, you could walk into your church and just go, what can I do? And people will come out of the woodwork. Are you kidding? You mean you don't care? You just want to help? And they'll thank the heck out of you for that. Whereas for me, walking into my church and saying that would be misery because they'd probably ask me to do something that I'm terrible at, which would not be good because I don't have enablement. So I don't know if that answers the question, Boy. But yes, if enablement is your thing, there's probably a lot of opportunities for that. And gosh, it's so hard. So I'm an empty nester now. As of last week, all my kids are gone. Laura and I, we don't have enablement. She has more of it than I do. But man, we were enabling constantly. And if you're a parent and you're an empty nester, your E might not be exercise very much. Find somebody who needs you and put your. Make yourself available to them. It's crazy.
- [20:45]
C
Yeah. It's amazing how if you're, you know, connected in a community or through a church or through your work or neighborhood, just being able to offer, hey, I'd love to help this weekend. And, and I get. If you're not a galvanizer, maybe that's harder or you feel like that might feel arrogant, but there are people on the other side of that that need help, that need your genius of enablement and would love to be able to lean in and, and help give you life by letting you use what the gift that you have.
- [21:13]
A
You know, I just thought of something that there's probably certain volunteering you could do that wouldn't be good for you because like you said, like be a mentor. Well, the mentoring, that might very well involve a lot of galvanizing.
- [21:24]
B
Right.
- [21:25]
A
And, and if you're in, and if it's, if it's E you're looking for, that might be too much of pushing. It might be more like, you ask me to help and I'll do what you need because it's more of a responsive genius than a disruptive. Okay, Matt, you were going to say something about that.
- [21:42]
D
Yeah, I mean, I was Just thinking when you guys were talking about volunteering that I think with enablement, it's even simpler than that. It's literally just whoever's closest to you or around you, you're just saying, hey, you need help with anything. Like. And I think probably compared to the other geniuses, people with enablement do this more, do this better than the other five geniuses, because they're so naturally inclined to just, you know, ask the people around them if they need help with anything or if they can do anything.
- [22:07]
A
For someone or even just see somebody in need and go start doing something. Absolutely. Okay, what about tenacity now? Can you imagine a job like, gosh, I have tenacity and my job just doesn't. Most people with tenacity, people find a way to use their tenacity. But let's just say a person's like, man, I really love to get stuff done. My job is a little too fuzzy. I don't think it has a lot of completion involved in that. I mean, Joe in our office has tenacity, and his job isn't as cut and dry, like finishing things right now. So what would you do? What would you advise somebody to do to satisfy their desire to exercise their tenacity off the clock?
- [22:43]
C
I can't imagine having that desire. It's hard for me to put that hat on right now.
- [22:49]
A
I think this is where you find tasks that can be completed. Find tasks like build something. Find a project. Because that's what people with tea like is to say, it got finished. I'm going to mow the lawn and I'm going to finish every bit of it. I'm going to go purchase this pizza oven and make it, and it's going to work. I need to see something from beginning to end and say, it's done.
- [23:19]
C
That's so good. It is. I apologize to my wife here publicly that I will be the person who starts a project that we have no chance ever finishing. And it drives her, with her tenacity, crazy. So it's like, pick the smaller project. You can get across the finish line. Even if it's a LEGO kit or it's a new or it's a recipe or it's a, you know, something in your yard that you're like, I'm gonna get this across the finish line.
- [23:44]
A
I love that I just dropped my son. This is not a good example of this. Cause it's not what I like to do. But we just dropped my youngest son off at college, and I had to build a couple things for him the simplest dang things ever. I mean, the instructions had almost no words on it. It was just like, so simple. And I couldn't believe I actually did it. I made a shelf and I made something else and I was like, wow, I can actually do that. I hope nobody ever asked me to do that again. But for other people, they're like, can I make something for you? Can I finish this project for you? And if you have tenacity and you want to do that, there's probably a lot of opportunities to do that. And volunteering also, there's a lot of. But you want to volunteer at something where there is a task at the end, where you get it done, right? This is interesting. Here's the thing. Working genius. I remember when we first came up with this, Cody, you know, four years ago, we thought working genius was the right title, but it's really doing genius. It's the verb. And it doesn't have to be at work because we work at home. But let's find a way to put ourselves in a position to exercise all of our geniuses. If it's not how we get paid, then let's indulge. As you said, Matt, those geniuses outside of work. And that is a really good thing. Alrighty, that's it for today. Hey, I want to remind everybody to go to the Working Genius store and buy some swag I love. I've got one on my desk right here. I've got my six letters, I'm an IDJ wet, and it's really good for me to look at that and go, oh, yeah, there's my ET at the end in red because I'm terrible at that. But anyway, so go to the store, check it out. Thanks for listening and we will look forward to talking to you next time on the Working Genius podcast. God bless.