← The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni
The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni
85. Don’t Fake It Till You Make It: Why Honesty Beats Pretending
00:19:03
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- [00:01]
A
For two years when I was in that job, I thought, what is wrong with me? How come I can't keep up with these people? Why are they finding this fun and easy, and I'm finding it miserable? Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we explore anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm your host, Pat Lincione, joined by Cody Thompson, my co host. We've got Matt Lin Choney behind the glass being our producer, and Cody, what's our topic today?
- [00:35]
B
Don't fake it till you make it.
- [00:38]
A
That's right. Sometimes faking it till you make it is a good thing in life, and sometimes it's really dangerous. And when it comes to your working geniuses, when you do that, I think really bad things happen. Now, that doesn't mean you can't do it maybe for a half a day if you have to do it. Of course we all have to do that, but sometimes we fake it till we make it, and we never really make it, or other people think we're making it and they think that we like what we're doing, and then we're stuck. So that's what we're going to talk about today. It's the value of not pretending you're good at something, which is not completely dissimilar to our episode from a couple of weeks ago when we talked about humility. But this is different. This is about. Sometimes people think, well, I. I'm going to try to be good at something I'm not good at just because, darn it, it's the right thing to do, and it almost never is.
- [01:28]
B
Well, and Pat, I'll say I'm looking forward to this one, because we. We kind of debriefed this concept a couple weeks ago, and actually, I disagreed with you. You know, like, I was wrestling with. Is this really true? And, you know, if you're new to working genius, this is definitely not the episode you should listen to. You should go to episode number one, because this is really nuanced, sort of how do we think about the different geniuses and where they fall in work and which ones can you kind of fake and which ones can't you? So I think I'm. I'm not fully on board yet. So I think we're going to have a little conflict as we explore the topic a little bit.
- [02:05]
A
I'm confident that by the end of this, Cody, we'll be on the same page. So here's. Here's the. Here's the premise. And I can. I'll anticipate the objection. And that is that. So when we have W I D G e T, we're moving from head in the clouds. And, and generally speaking, internal geniuses that are not, that are hard to observe, it's hard to, to see somebody and go, oh, they're definitely wondering, I know what that looks like, or they're inventing or even discerning. They're kind of more internal. G E and T are more observational, and it's getting closer to the ground where things are actually getting done. You can actually see progress and activity. Okay, so, so the idea here is this galvanizing and to a greater extent, even enabling and tenacity are very observable. And the problem with that is too many people are led to believe, well, I could do that even if they don't have it as a genius. And so I think this is actually a, a compliment to people that are good at G E and T because too often people are going to say, well, I can do that. I've seen people do that. I could pretend I was doing that or that I'm good at it. And what happens is people will sometimes say, yeah, I could take a job doing GE or T work and I could probably figure it out. Well, the truth of the matter is you're not going to be good at it. You might be able to fake it. Now, on the other hand, when you look at wid work, very few people that aren't good at W I n d are going to go, I want. I could do a job where that's what was required of me. I could go in every day and do that. Most people would say, don't put me in that job at all. And so the problem is both for people who don't have G E and T, they're going to be tempted to think that they can do something that they're not good at and they're going to be miserable. Where the good news is, for people that are good at G E and T, they're much less likely to try to do a job doing wi work because they're going to go, oh, please don't put me in a job like that. So it's not so much that I'm saying that get work is easier because it's not. It just. I think it's easier for people to think they can do it because they can imitate or mimic somebody doing that kind of work because it's more observational.
- [04:33]
B
So what do you think yeah. Two thoughts. So the. The thing that actually flipped my perspective a little bit in our previous conversation that you said is the difference between what's observable and not observable. Right. So, like, the idea that if you can observe something, you can kind of emulate it, like, the function of it, rather than the idea of, like, watching somebody wonder, it's hard to get your head around, like, how would I go about that process, you know? But watching someone create a to do list and. And executing on the to do list, it's a far easier thing to observe and try to emulate. Though the point that. That is really interesting, I'm going to push back on is I think when you talk about, you know, we have to keep reminding ourselves that when we're measuring working genius, it's primarily about joy and fulfillment. Right. Because I would even say I've heard your story many, many times, which is you did get good at tenacity work because of. Out of. Out of your own, you know, the roles that you were put in, both in school and in your first jobs. And what it did is it led to burnout and frustration. It wasn't that you could. You. You couldn't be good at it. It was that you actually, you know, faked it till you make it. And I think one of the phrases that we. We chatted about was like, you can play a game that you don't even really want to win. Like, you won a game faking tenacity that you didn't really want to win in the first place.
- [06:01]
A
Exactly. And so when we say fake it, to what. What does it mean to make it? And, yeah, I could convince people that I was good at that, but I was miserable. Eventually, I burned out. And if anything is eventually gonna lead to burnout, which is essentially gonna be failure, that's not making it. So maybe what it is is I could actually, you know, let me use an example, Cody, of an extreme situation. So, like, I'm an author, and so I. And. And. And I write creative stuff, so I come up with, like, new ideas and characters.
- [06:34]
B
You have to send me some of your books.
- [06:35]
A
I. Yes, I. I have a few. Evidently not here. I think there's some back here. But. So I. If somebody watched me write a book, they would observe me typing, right? But nobody would go, well, I can do that. I can see he's typing. I could just go sit and type. They would go, there's something going on up there that I don't understand. And that's hard for me on the Other hand, last night we had a gas leak at my house, right? And so in the middle of the night, this guy from the gas company came out and told us what it was and shut something down. We'll have to get fixed. I watched him do that, right. And I could actually see what he was doing. And I could probably say, yeah, I watched him. I could do that. But here's the thing. I don't understand it. I'm not good at it. I would forget the sequence of it. I don't think like him, but I could pretend or I could fool myself into thinking I could do what he's doing. And of course, I could fake it until I blow up my house, right? So it's not making it. When you do something, just because it's a little bit easier to observe doesn't mean I'm going to like it, that I'm going to avoid burnout and that something really bad isn't going to happen. But, yeah, my first job at a college was like that too.
- [07:53]
B
Yeah. And I think that's really interesting way to look at it, because what. What you're actually doing when you're writing, especially the fables and all the things that you've written, is invention, the observable typing. And we're not reducing tenacity to typing. That's a. That's a. A super reduction of what that means. But the observable part of invention, the stuff that's going on in your brain, you can't emulate. The same way that, like, if somebody is, you know, a real wonder, the process that they're going through is like, I'm sensing this unpacked, untapped potential. I am, like, really understanding that there's a need or a market or something we should pursue or. But what you observe is them asking questions. And if you reduce, if you think like, oh, I'll just ask a bunch of questions, that will be my way of wondering. That's a different activity than what's actually happening when somebody is really has the gift of wonder.
- [08:51]
A
Right. I was thinking this is probably why so many people get injured or worse, doing really dumb things like doing physical stunts, because they watch somebody who's really good at it and they go, yeah, I could do that. It's like, you could try that and you're going to get killed. Whereas if somebody tried something that that's internal, they're just going to go, I don't get this. But that doesn't mean it's less important. The things that are observable they're not less important.
- [09:24]
B
When we, we. Some part of our conversation too was I. I had asked you this question, which was there are more jobs in the observable get geniuses right, like especially right out of school and right out of college, for example. And, and I had sort of shared the sentiment like before working genes when I first entered the workforce. I have enablement and tenacity as frustration, which is a high value, you know, job right out of like college. There's a, there's a lot of jobs that are really focused around productivity and those sort of things, and I was not good at them. I just thought that's the first time I thought like, well, yeah, I get why they call it work, because this is not going to be fun for me for most of my life, you know, you know, and, and, and the assessment I made was like, I guess I'm just bad at work. And the other people who thrived in that environment. There was just something fundamentally wrong with the way I was wired to contribute on teams and in the working world until we discovered that there are these six types of work. You know, I mean, it, it, it became a, you know, even my own progression of a career at table group. Pat, I started out in more of an enablement, tenacity job, and then I got to play around a little bit in the content space as you were writing. Ideal Team Player was the first book I was a part of. And it, and that's when it started to become clear of like, oh, I really like that part where, where Pat invents a new chapter of his book and then I get to, you know, observe. I get to play around with it and discern and say, I really like that part. So that even my own transition helped me understand this. And, and I, I don't know if there's a question there, but what, what strikes you? As I say, you know, my own experience that way.
- [11:08]
A
Well, and again, we're exploring this together and I love the fact that the people that listen to this podcast know working genius really well. And, and so it's fun that like a week, I like to think of them all sitting around talking about this with us. But like, when I think about my first job out of college and it. It was supposed to be, it was in management consulting and strategic consulting where we worked with the company, worked with CEOs to try to figure out the highest level, blah, blah, blah of this. They hired me to do basically pretty specific tasks that they needed done, and I had to do them really well. And on time and be really thorough and really respond to what they were asking me to do. They didn't even think that I might not be good at that because they just said, well, if you got good grades in school and. But it's funny because I think they even would have said, well, anybody should be able to do this, right? And what they didn't realize is I had been faking it for years and I hated studying and getting all my stuff done and getting good grades. I did it because of my wounds and I needed a job. But then I talked myself into a job that I wasn't really going to like and be good at eventually. But they didn't even screen for that because I think they thought, well, if, if somebody's smart, they could just figure that out. And so I think there's a tendency to underestimate the genius involved in enablement and tenacity. Whereas if they were hiring somebody at a think tank and they needed somebody or innovation laboratory to come up with new ideas or a, or what do you call that when a. A tech company comes together to incubator, they would probably go, hey, I need to know that you can actually come up with new ideas and innovate. And they might even test you for that. But they should have tested me for whether or not I really liked those things, whether I got any joy and satisfaction, because they would not have hired me and put me in a job where two years later, and here's the cost, I was unhealthy physically. I was burnt out. I was really low in confidence because I thought, why can't I do this like these other people? Because, dude, you don't have any ent. You suck at that.
- [13:26]
B
And so actually I'm thinking about. We just did a series of interviews for an executive assistant, a new hire here at the Table group. And we finished a couple interviews and I was reading through the resume and. And you said something like, well, this is why I wouldn't hire you as an executive assistant. To me, to. To me, right? We were talking about the skills and even the working genius of the, of the candidate we were evaluating. And I said, well, no, you. You actually might hire me, but I would be really bad at it. And one of my reflections was really interesting, is like, we have the trust and the understanding of working genius right now, but the very nature, like, imagine me writing the most honest resume imaginable based on who I know myself to be. I would be like, how. How does this sound to the marketplace? Like, I'm really not that great. At following through in details. You know, I like, like all the things that were on this executive assistant's, you know, resume. I was like, oh, boy. I would feel tempted because I wanted that job to put on there. I'll figure out how to be detail oriented and execute on the details and push projects through to completion. But it would be signing me up for like, I would. I don't want to play that game, and I certainly don't want to win that game because like you said, winning leads to burnout. And that's, that's actually failure.
- [14:53]
A
You know, it's, it's, it's a great point, Cody. I was thinking about when, when, when, when we hire people like that now for people that have to get a job, if you're, if you're destitute or in a really difficult situation and you're. And this is why these people deserve so much appreciation and support and prayers is because if a person just has to provide for their family and the only job available is something they're not great at. I gotta work at the docks or in the coal mine. Nobody's like, well, you're a wi. You're not going to like it. They're like, well, thanks, but I got to put money on the table. So we're not looking beyond that. And the world has people in it that people have to be good at something that they're not. And so we get that. But for most people, that does not make sense and it's not necessary because you're not going to be able to sustain it. And yeah, I would hire you to be my executive assistant because you'd be really fun to work with. But I shouldn't, because I'm probably going to not ask you to do the things that I need you to do. And, and that's not going to be good for anybody. So, so this is why it's so important for people to say just because I could, I could fake it for a while. If there's any way to avoid that, avoid it because it's not going to lead to something good.
- [16:08]
B
And I like that you said like that the, There is a certain life circumstance or something where, where work is a sacrifice. Like, I'll take whatever job. You know, I, I moved to date my wife in, in the Bay Area. I moved up there without a job. I literally, I applied for a hundred jobs. I probably would have taken any job that they gave me because I needed it in that season. But, but knowing what I know now, I would have gone into, I think this is like sort of a, a, a, a warning sign of like a, like a canary in the coal mine type moment to say, like, hey, it's okay to do that for a time or a season or for a reason. But go into it knowing that your, the ideal situation is to move into a role that will match your geniuses, because otherwise you're signing yourself up for misery and burnout and the world is going to keep taking it from you.
- [17:01]
A
You know, and, and you know what? The other thing. And guilt, right? Because for two years when I was in that job, I thought, what is wrong with me? How come I can't keep up with these people? Why are they finding this fun and easy and I'm finding it miserable? And it was because you can't fake joy. And even if you can learn to live without joy and energy for a while, eventually it's going to catch up with you. So don't, don't let yourself do that. And, and you know, the people are listening to this. They have a lot of friends and family members that are going to be graduating college soon. And so many times parents are like, I just want them to get a job. Sometimes getting a job and if it's the wrong one is going to lead them to a lot of bad things. And so I remember I was at a college and I was teaching a class on working genius, and I had the kids take it right away. And then I said, this one kid, he was a senior, he goes, here's my job. And he told me what it was, and I said, that's not going to be fun for you. And he goes, oh, no, I don't want that job. And I said, no, no, hold out for something that's a little closer to your geniuses and compet competencies. Don't walk into a job that's, that's in your, in your frustrations. And so that's what our, our message is, is sit down and help people. And man, when you can help people in your own organization that are faking it and you know that they're actually getting by and they're miserable, free them up to find something else. That's the, one of the best things that can happen is you can help somebody realize you don't have to feel guilty anymore. You don't have to be pushing for burnout. Let's help you rethink this. That could be the greatest gift in their career.
- [18:43]
B
Love it.
- [18:44]
A
All right. I think that's all we have to say about that. Don't fake it till you make it because you're not really going to make it. All righty. Thanks for joining us on the Working Genius podcast. We'll look forward to talking in a couple weeks. Until then, God bless.