B (2:11)

I've actually seen you on a meeting, pick a hole into the bottom of your teacup and it spill all over your pants. So it's pretty appropriate.

A (2:19)

Yeah, many times. So we just wanted to have a good conversation here. A little brain candy conversation. It's interesting. We like to have fun with working genius and talk about the coffee cup analogy because we've come up with a few little nuances and other examples of it that we thought would be fun to talk about. And people listen to this podcast, they tend to really be interested in the nuances of this and they're using it in their work. So we thought it would be fun to talk for a while about beyond the coffee cup analogy.

B (2:47)

Yeah. And Pat, I think it's interesting, too, when working genius is four years old, and as often as we go back to the way we described it in the beginning and why we chose the words that we chose, and I think the coffee cup analogy was one of the first ones that we were trying to communicate. The way that it talks about joy and energy and fulfillment. And so it is kind of fun to think about, like, four years later. Would we change it? Is there a better analogy? What nuances have we explored that would add to the conversation, not necessarily replace it? And we've heard from people that are certified and from our master facilitators different ways that they've communicated it to teams. So we just thought it'd be fun to explore those and say, what are ways that people are kind of understanding or being like using creative analogies to describe working genius.

A (3:42)

Exactly. And so let's start by adding one something to the coffee cup analogy itself, Cody, which is. And I think you mentioned this when we were talking, is that there's actually coffee cups that are plugged in that actually make the coffee. You got one right there.

B (3:56)

I got one. If you're on video. Yeah. A little ember mug. And you can just turn it on and it will heat up your coffee.

A (4:02)

So you can actually get additional joy and energy. It's not just that it holds it, but it can grow the joy and energy. And certainly that's true in working genius sometimes, as you said before the podcast, Cody, some people have never had a chance to work in their genius. So the. When they get to do that, it's like, I don't even know how to relate to this. This is better than I could have imagined. So. So there's that upside. We took it up. It's not. Doesn't just go to a 10, it goes to 11.

B (4:29)

Well, and I think that's one of the important nuances, like the thread that we were pulling at as we thought about this conversation, because the question was really, is it something like. Another analogy would be like a phone battery, right? Is working genius like you're plugging in your phone and that the more work you do in your working genius, does it actually get fuller? Like, does it fill up? Does it get charged? Does it charge you? And we talk often about, about that, but is there a limit to it? So in other words, you know, that was one of the threads we were trying to pull in our conversation to say, well, let's say you were just organizing your life to work exclusively, exclusively in your geniuses. Is that like you're 100% charged if you can somehow manage to work in there? 100%.

A (5:15)

Oh, I like this analogy because at some point the phone is charged all the way and it says, hey, it's not taking anymore, right? And I've even heard that is it true, I'm a Cretan, that if you overcharge it, that's not good for it?

B (5:29)

I mean, probably I have.

A (5:32)

Considerably younger than me, is nodding her head now and said, that's true. And so there is something to be said that we can only go so far in this. Most people never get to that point. But here's another thing we've talked about. Is it good to only work in your geniuses? And I say, no, I think we, we need to do other kinds of work to appreciate it. And imagine that you kept your phone plugged in and you never disconnected and walked around with it. Well, that's the whole idea. It's portable and so we're meant to use it. We're meant to drain the battery sometimes. And just knowing that we can go and fill it up again is, is a good thing. Now, I don't know what the other one would be like, maybe leaving it on, leaving the flashlight on, turning up the, the sound and the brightness all the way and just draining it without using it. That would maybe be your working frustration.

B (6:16)

Well, I think it's like when it gets to low power mode and it just shuts off some of the basic functionalities, right? Like, oh, yeah, you're, you're in deficient battery mode, which means that, like, all of your features and functions are not operable. But I do think, I think that was a really important nuance that we were talking about, Pat, is like, is, does it recharge you? And I think what you mentioned about our conversation earlier is so many people are probably working enough in their competencies and frustrations that when they realize that they are Geniuses is sort of a different category of work. It would feel like you're getting charged up, right. Like, you spend so much time not working, enjoy and fulfillment, that once you start to articulate what that is and organize your life in that way, it can feel like, yeah, this is. Of course, it's recharging.

A (7:08)

Yeah. Wow. Something that just occurred to me, Cody, as you were saying, that is imagine that you get to work in your genius all the time, and you get so used to it that just doing a little bit of work, even in your competency, you're like, oh, I can't. You know, I mean, you can get probably spoiled, and suddenly just having to do something that you don't love can start to feel like a huge burden. That would be a pretty bad thing, too.

B (7:31)

Yeah. The. You know, Tracy thought of another analogy that I thought was super helpful around riding a bike, which is the idea that if you're riding a bike downhill, you know, on a. On an incline, going down, that it's very easy. It comes so easy. It's almost a thrill to be able to ride downhill. That would, you know, be equivalent to your working genius. Riding on a flat surface is like, yeah, I can do this. This is a working competency. Like, it's not quite as. As thrilling as it is, and it requires a little bit more effort to stay at speed. That's your working competency. And then the riding a bike uphill is more like you're working genius. And we have a. We have a hill in our neighborhood, so we have a little loop that we do as a family. And every time my son decides, dad, I'm going to ride my bike on this loop, I know that it means halfway up the hill, I'll be carrying two bikes between my kids, you know, like, they just can't make it all the way. And then the bike becomes like a burden rather than a tool. And so I love that idea of, like, another way to communicate what the joy and energy of working genius is. In a different analogy.

A (8:39)

And if you think about an electric bike, we talked about this. When you're going downhill, it actually recharges. Like in a car, when. I know when in a car, all these. The different models, EcoBoost or whatever else, you're going downhill and you off the gas and you see your battery charging. Well, when you're on flat ground, you're just pedaling. And when you're going uphill, it really reduces your. Your battery because it's using everything. And so that's another analogy. Like, sometimes it's actually extra benefits, not just going downhill, that you don't have to do things that are hard, but it actually fills you up and gives you benefits that you wouldn't have.

B (9:16)

Yeah, one, one other quick one. And this isn't just a list of analogies, but I think that it is helpful. And actually I would say to our listeners, Pat, we'd love to hear the ways you guys have communicated this. Like, there's so many people who've been certified. We mentioned that last episode. Like almost 5,500 people out there doing team sessions. I'm sure there's more ways that people have found opportunities to use analogies or communicate, you know, the. The joy and energy behind working genius. But I've heard. I think. I can't remember who it was from, so I don't know who to give credit to. But another one would be like, when you're working out, your working genius is like a. The size shoe that you're wearing. If you have a shoe that is too. That is just perfect, that's your working genius. You could do a great workout. If you have a shoe that's too large, you can actually still kind of do the workout. It just. You get clumsy and, you know, flopping around a little bit. If you have shoes that are too small, that workout becomes painful and you're ready to quit as soon as you get an opportunity. And so that just another. Another way, like imagine running in shoes that are too small for you. Just not a possibility.

A (10:24)

Right. You know, and then. And then we start getting into other analogies that we need to preface by saying, this is not about working genius. They're just analogies. Like, I have kids and four boys. And I remember that Laura, to go back to working genius, she didn't. She's not. She doesn't have galvanizing. And I have it as a competency. And when I get them together and go, okay, who wants to do this Choreograph. And independent of their working genius, just letting them choose because it wasn't like they were that different. Like, if it was cleaning the pool or doing the. Or emptying the trash or doing the dishes, everybody had a different preference. Again, not related to their working genius. Mikey hates gross food. He has an aversion to, like dirty dishes. So he would do anything to avoid that. But when I got. When I was a kid and my mom said, I want you to vacuum. I don't know if it's cause I have OCD or whatever else, but I actually thought it was kind of Fun. And ironing shirts is fun to me. My wife hates ironing shirts. So even in the mundane chores, independent of your working genius, some things are. I find that it's fun to think when I iron shirts and vacuum and Laura likes doing dishes and figuring where things go. It's not. And I've looked at this. It has nothing to do with me being an ID and her being a wi. It's just everybody has different preferences, and sometimes you've actually, it doesn't crush me at the end of that. But let me tell you, there are certain things that if you said to me, hey, you need to do this this weekend, I would just be like, oh, this is going to be the worst weekend ever.

B (11:59)

Well, and I actually love. I agree. We're not, you know, you're more referring to the joy and energy and interest in something than you are the working genius. But I love the analogy or the story that you tell often on the podcast about there are actually ways you can go about chores or homework or other things where you can integrate your working genius. You talk about your dad. The way he wanted you to mow the yard was like, okay, here are the straight lines. Follow behind me and do exactly as I say. Whereas if he said like, hey, why don't you try to figure out a new pattern or a new way or use your invention? So there is a nuance there. But I love the idea of saying like, hey, yes. When we talk about joint energy, there's probably a tertiary factor which is like, you're just interested in the thing. Like, you could be a WI artist and an ET artist both liking art and do it in a different way. But it's more about the interest in the activity that we're trying to draw the analogy of. Like, that's what it feels like when you're working in your genius is like, yeah, that sounds awesome.

A (13:06)

And, you know, the same happened when I was. When my boys were young, and even when they were in high school, I'd come home and. And it would be like, the boys need help with their homework. Now, this is not BE based on working genius. It's just pure preference. The subject matter mattered to me. And if it was like math, I'd be like, yeah, I can do that. That sounds fun. That's all right. Spanish. Yeah, I like, I can do that. But if it, if it was something else, my wife loves poetry now I'm an id, she's a wi. So it's not like that different our world. But I just, I was like, yeah, I Don't. I don't get that. I don't want to do that Shakespeare. I'd be like, yeah, okay, I'm an author, but I don't get it, you know? And she like, oh, I like Shakespeare. So sometimes it's just for whatever reason, there's certain things we like to do that give us. Like, yeah, I'm not going to be all that tired after helping him with algebra, but if I have to, like, analyze iambic pentameter and all that kind of stuff for whatever reason. And again, I'm. I'm convinced that it's not working genius, because that would be confusing if it were. It's just like, sometimes things feed us and sometimes they don't. When it is working genius, it's pretty darn powerful.

B (14:14)

Well, I think it does speak to Pat. You know, we often talk about, like, okay, a marketing job is not a marketing job is not a marketing job. And then we try to deconstruct what they're asking based on working genius, right? Like, hey, we can actually give you a better idea if you, you know, will like that job or not based on your working genius. But I like this other layer of saying, like, maybe you're not interested in marketing at all. Like, you know, it could be. So I think there is a tertiary layer to this to say, like, well, even if you were good at that specific sales job based on your working genius, but you're not interested in sales, it's not going to completely overcome your disinterest. And so I think that there is, like, there is value in having this tertiary layer of, you know, interest, fulfillment, joy of the. The activity that you're doing that actually lends. Lends itself to your own proclivities.

A (15:05)

I'm going to try one more lame analogy. We eat lunch together here in the office every day, and I'm. I don't even weigh in on it usually. And. And if they go, what do. If I say, hey, what are we having for lunch? And they're like, oh, we're getting salad. I'm like, oh, the food of sadness. And it's like, I'm so lunch is going to be a chore for me. I'm literally going to go in there and just go, I'm going to take it off. And it's just work. And it. I don't like it. And it's, ah. And if it's something I love, lunch is fun. And we're going to be talking because. And it's like, it's not working genius. It's just sometimes certain things give us energy and joy and certain things don't. And so I don't know what we're having today, but.

B (15:47)

Well, I do have salad. Is a working frustration of mine, so I totally get that.

A (15:52)

It's just it. And we love that T shirt, lettuce. The food of sadness.

B (15:57)

Yeah.

A (15:57)

And other people like, no, it's great. You don't understand. It's all. And it's like, see that? That's your working genius. I don't get your working genius. I don't get salad. But I'm glad.

B (16:08)

One man's trash is another man's salad. Right, Pat?

A (16:11)

That's right. That's exactly right. So this whole idea of joy and energy is a beautiful thing. We all have different reasons why we get. But it matters. It matters. And one day I will. They will make something where I can have Mexican food and it'll stay with me and I can keep eating it all day long. That'll be like the. The bicycle with the battery or the cup that you have there that makes it hotter.

B (16:35)

Yeah. I love the mix. All the analogies. You're on a bike, electric bike, downhill with coffee cup and an ember mug. Yeah, it's going great.

A (16:44)

Eating. Eating Mexican food. Food through an iv. There it is. Alrighty. Beyond the coffee cups. We went well beyond the coffee cups. And so that's a fun thing to talk about. Talk about it with your friends. Play this fun game at home with your friends and neighbors. And thank you for joining us on the Working Genius podcast. We'll look forward to talking to you next time. God bless.