Loading summary
Transcript45 lines
- [00:00]
A
W is the mystery meat of working genius, and that is so many people have never been rewarded for or even recognized for being a wanderer. So it's often the one that gets overlooked. Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything related to the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm Pat Linceoni, your host, joined by trustee Cody Thompson, my co host. How you doing, Cody?
- [00:29]
B
Very trusty today.
- [00:30]
A
That's right. We've got Matt Lin Choney, our producer, who's going to weigh in on some stuff with us today. What's our topic, Cody?
- [00:36]
B
The impact of your environment.
- [00:39]
A
That's right. The environment around us really impacts how we perceive or better yet, misperceive our working genius sometimes. And you know, Cody, we're really happy with the fact that the working genius assessment is quite accurate. You know, we've tested it, and it seems very accurate. However, with any assessment, you have to always ask yourself, is this a true reflection of who I am? And so we always encourage people, when they're done getting their results, to say, did I really answer this in the right reflection of where I get my joy and energy? Because sometimes people get it wrong. And we want to talk about that today, because often people get it wrong because they're working and living in an environment that's so strong that it skews how they see themselves.
- [01:29]
B
Yeah. A lot of what you're describing, Pat, is in instances where somebody gets their report back and it doesn't exactly feel accurate for them, more often than not, the impact of their working environment or their home environment or the place they spend most of their time as they're answering the questions they're answering through the lens of that environment. And so you use this phrase often. And we have a little preview to the questions as you're taking the assessment. It says, like, hey, remember, keep in mind, don't answer this as your responsibilities at work answer it. You use this phrase as if you had your shoes off. You know, like, where. Where are you feeling most comfortable? Don't have your tie on or your. Your name badge on or your. Your clocking card ready. As you answer these questions, let's just find out who you are at your core and don't. And try your best to not let the environment you spend most of your time in dictate how you answer the questions.
- [02:22]
A
And that's easier said than done when you're in a job or in an environment. I mean, like, when you're knee deep in parenting and You've been in parenting for years, and you ask somebody, hey, what are. What gives you joy and energy? Sometimes that doesn't come quickly. Or you've been working for a kind of company with a really strong culture. Sometimes it's hard to remember, what would I do if I could do it the way I like? Because it's been so long since I exercised that muscle. And so some people have to really check on that. And we want to encourage people when they do this and they feel like it's not quite right, we're like, yeah, follow that and ask yourself what is really true? And sometimes you talk to other people around you and give you a better perspective who aren't quite so biased by the world you live in.
- [03:07]
B
Yeah. And you know, Pat, I think the parenting one might be even a unique situation. But when you ask somebody, hey, what gives you joy and energy? And they're thinking of their work environment, what they might actually accidentally do is say, well, when I do this type of work, the people around me are really happy. They reward me for that type of work. So it makes them get joy and energy. And by proxy, they might think, like, oh, that's when I get rewarded. So that's why I answer the questions that way. Cause there's so many. We've talked on this podcast that there's a lot of cultural environments where if a whole business is really, you know, keen on execution, they're going to probably celebrate and reward the people who have enablement and tenacity as their genius. And so if you don't have that and at work, you're sort of incentivized to move into those geniuses, you might answer the questions a little bit differently without understanding the impact of your environment. I think that's kind of the. The spirit of what we're trying to hone in on.
- [04:06]
A
Absolutely. And I. I will say this. If you had had me take this when I was really young, I mean, like, in my teens, I probably would have tested out as an et which is my working frustration, because I got really good at those things and got rewarded for them. It didn't give me joy and energy, but the. The hope that it would please somebody. A coach, a teacher, a parent was pretty important to me. But it wasn't until I got older that I was able to go, oh, I don't actually like doing those things. It's just what the world is reinforcing for me.
- [04:35]
B
Yeah, it's similar for me, Pat. I remember growing up in school, I think we've talked about this on different podcasts with the guilt and shame. I think it's associated in some ways with this whole idea of guilt and shame. Because when you're a student, a lot of the system of education is set up for tenacity. Like, get your homework done, do it on time, do it the way we tell you to do it, push that report through at the right time, make sure everything is exactly on time. And I went through life thinking like, well, I guess I'm not good at that. And I would try so hard to do that. And if I had answered, if I was taking some sort of test that would, you know, you know those tests that you take in high school that say, like, you might be good at xyz, you kind of take these assessments and tests as if you're wanting to get results that the environment is telling you that they value. And so you're even more inclined, even at a young age to say, well, everything I'm experiencing says I should be on time and detail oriented. That's on every job description that I've ever read. So let me go ahead and say yes to that, and I'll just strive harder to make that true of myself.
- [05:42]
A
And yet when we game the tests, then we end up with a result. And if we actually use that to get a job, we're going to get one. That by definition, is not who we are.
- [05:52]
B
Yeah.
- [05:53]
A
So now the reason this topic came up is because a good friend of mine, this woman, was telling me that she had a few people that she knew that got it wrong. And then I told you about it, and you said you talked to a young lady who got it wrong. I mean, when I say got it wrong, their results weren't accurate. And in both of those occasions, we were like, oh, it was their environment. And then Matt told us about his situation as well. So let's start. Tell us about your example, Cody, the young lady you talked to.
- [06:25]
B
Yeah, So I recently chatted with someone who took working genius four years ago. @ the time she tested as a G Z Galvanizer and tenacity, or Galvanizer enablement. Tenacity, somewhere in that range. And now she realized four years later, she's actually discernment and wonder. So those are not just off, they are dramatically off. Right. Those are at different sides of the spectrum. And. And so when I asked her how she thought maybe that those initial results came back. Well, at the time, she was a. She was in the Marine Corps, and she was literally overseeing 40 different Marines. And what they rewarded in that environment Is can you rally people around things? Can you, like, galvanize people? And can you do things the way that they should be done on time? And so you can imagine that someone who is younger, in that environment, wanting to please her supervisors, are going to lean into behaviors that are actually not her genius. So she tested that way later, after getting out of that environment, realized, like, boy, that's not at all what I enjoyed. I got pretty proficient at doing those things. But she really loves the process of asking big questions and utilizing wonder. She likes discerning what the right inventions are. And. And so it was almost the opposite of what she had tested in a different environment.
- [07:51]
A
Yeah. But it's interesting because she said she was. She was leading people in the military who were older than her.
- [07:55]
B
Yeah.
- [07:56]
A
So it's like, you better be a galvanizer and you better have a lot of D and E, E to obey your. Your superiors, T. To get things done. Then she ended up leaving the military and going. Getting her master's degree in divinity. And because she chose that and she said, I want to do that, which is. Seems so more aligned with WD and the kind of thing. Not that. Not that you couldn't do that and have different working geniuses, but that is so. Makes sense.
- [08:22]
B
I would just say one more thing, Pat. Like, imagine being a wanderer in the military and trying to question how things are done. You know, like, yes, like, hey, commanding Officer, have you ever thought about us doing it this other way? There's, there's. They'll be like, no, of course not. And you don't get to think that either. I mean, I bet there's probably very little room for wonder in that environment. And, and so no wonder she didn't test that way.
- [08:48]
A
No wonder. You know, it's interesting, this next example, this woman I was talking to, her brother is a priest. Now, it's going to be interesting, though, because it's kind of the opposite. He's in a religious order, a priest that I know pretty well, and they're very disciplined. They're very organized, and they're very disciplined. It's a wonderful order. The priests are very loyal and obedient, and they get a lot done. And he tested as an ET and his sister was like, I've known you my whole life. You're not an ET and realized he probably had W. And. And maybe even I, but he was in an environment and had been for quite some time that really valued that. So this would be like, as close to a military, like, environment within a religious order. They're wonderful, but they're very clear on what's expected of them. And so it was hard for him to untangle from his environment. That doesn't mean he's in the wrong place. It doesn't mean a W shouldn't be in the military. They should just realize, oh, this part of who I am might not necessarily get exercised as much here. And so in both of those cases we were like, so why did their assessments not get them accurately? And it's because it was very hard to step out of the environment and say, who am I when I get to choose for myself, you know, Pat.
- [10:10]
B
I was actually reading some podcast reviews of this podcast and there was a review not that long ago of someone who said, I went my whole career in an environment that valued something different than what I had to offer and kind of spend his whole life conforming to what was rewarded and celebrated in that environment. It wasn't till he was retired that he took working genius. And, and actually, and I think that's the key is that sort of shoes off moment that you described, which is like, you're getting in, you're about to take this 10 minute assessment and if you could clear your cache of all the things that was required of you at work and really answer the questions and say, does that bring me joy and energy? I think in some cases, like, hopefully people don't have to get to retirement to do that. But I think the message here is like, hey, be really, really careful because the environment you are in right now can actually influence those results. And then we'll say this, I'd love to. And then I want to bring that on too, is when you get it wrong, when your results come back and you think if you're a, like my friend who was in the military, if you thought you were a GT, but really you're wired as a wonder discerner, then you're going to live your whole life in this like, tension and not. And lack of confidence in all sorts of things. And so it can be really limiting if you don't have it right based on your, your joy and fulfillment. But it can be really liberating when you do get it right.
- [11:38]
A
And you know, here's the thing about it. And even in the military, we've done work with organizations in the military, we know they use working genius. And in the priesthood, with this guy that's in this religious order, if you know what your working geniuses are, even in those environments that have a propensity toward one thing, if you go to your superiors, they would want to know who you are so they can better manage you. And it's not to say that they're going to change everything to suit you, but they're going to know, oh, it's really good to know that you're like that. So when you ask me a question like that, I don't think you're being disobedient. I think you're actually using the gifts God gave you. And I know this is to be true. Even people in the military and in certain organizations that are relatively clear about how things are, they know that they have people that aren't perfectly aligned with the culture, and it allows them to benefit from the different gifts that people have there without squashing people. Because you shouldn't have to leave an organization that has a very clear culture just because your working genius isn't perfectly aligned with that culture. Because every culture needs the diversity of people in it. And so we're totally capable of being successful in an environment that's a little bit counter to our working genius as long as the people around us understand that and can draw out the good things in us.
- [12:55]
B
Yeah. I love that you made that. That nuance pat, which is like, we're not saying, hey, if you don't match that culture, you should get out. Because every job, every team, every marriage needs all six geniuses, you know?
- [13:08]
A
Yes.
- [13:08]
B
And so I like that it just gives you context, and it gives the people around you context to say, hey, like, if you're in the military and you say, like, well, I don't show up to training on time and I don't make my bed because I don't have the right geniuses, they're going to be like, hey, that doesn't matter. You got to. You got to go outside of that. But. But it will give them context. If you say. If you use a wonder question in that environment, that's not like, hey, I'm questioning the whole system. They know who you are. And that's actually a beautiful thing.
- [13:36]
A
And just like we talk about any organization, there's a time and place for that. Like, and. And to go very extreme in the military on the battlefield, like, hey, I wonder. It's like, no, we have orders. Let's go. But there's a place where your commanding officer wants to know, like, do you have any other thoughts before we decide on this?
- [13:54]
B
Yeah.
- [13:55]
A
So it's. It's really about knowing for. For the superiors know how to use the people in my organization in the right time and in the right place. Because even the superiors will think, well, I guess everybody just is naturally like this. And that's just not the case now. So Matt, who helped us, was involved in developing this model from the very beginning. Matt, you even tell us about what you first thought you were based on. Based on our understanding of this.
- [14:24]
C
Well, I hate that. Every time I come on here, I feel like I'm talking about how I used to think something and now I don't. But the first couple episodes of the Working Genius podcast, we thought I was a discerner and enablement, But. But before that, when you first introduced the model, I thought I was a discerner galvanizer because of the roles that I had on campus. When I was in college, I led a number of the groups. I was a part of the fraternity, the lacrosse team. And so when I first. This was before the assessment existed, but when I first considered what my types would be, what my geniuses were, I was like, yeah, I must be a discerner galvanizer because I like doing these things. I like leading. But it was the context of energy and joy that actually made me realize what I really was.
- [15:09]
A
Right. And it's interesting because I remember that, too. And I remember looking at you as my son and thinking, well, gosh, but he was the captain of his lacrosse team, and he really was the leader. And then he did this, and he did this. But the question we have to ask ourselves is there's multiple reasons that you chose to do that. You know, and. And. And I want to say this, Matt. Something I realized all three of these examples were going through. The priest, the woman who was in the. The Marines, and you. The one letter that all of you had that you didn't recognize.
- [15:39]
C
Was what I was about to say the same thing? Wonder. I had two wonder questions, actually, that I wanted to tee up for you guys while I was listening to the first half of this episode. But one was, this must be more common for Wanderers because it's less observable, it's less obvious. It's an internal process, and it's not exactly celebrated the same way that some other more observable geniuses are. And then my other W question was, is there a pull towards the ground in this? And is that because of the types of organizations people usually work for, the types of jobs they have? Because in each example, it wasn't just that it was wonders. It was that they were. People thought they were lower to the ground in terms of the altitude of genius. Like your example of that you thought you used to Think you were an ET or, I mean, if you had taken it when you were younger, you would have said you were an ET Is there a pull towards the ground as well as a trend of wanderers being the people that don't exactly know what they. Their types are off the bat?
- [16:38]
A
I think the answer is yes to both of those things. I think that. To the second question, I think that because we are rewarded, like Cody said in school and in most jobs for, like, getting things done, if you want to be successful, you will try to do those things, even if it's unnatural. And so we can more easily get lured into thinking that that's what we have very. We haven't seen a lot of people like, gosh, I tested wi, but I'm actually an E.T. you know, that does not happen. And then w is the mystery meat of. Of working genius. And that is so many people have never been rewarded for or even recognized for being a wanderer. So it's often the one that gets overlooked. And both the priest, I think, and the person in the military and you all had wonder. And oftentimes it's really tough if you're not really in tune with what gives you joy and energy to downplay that even on the assessment. So I guess my answer to you on that is yes and yes. What do you think, Cody?
- [17:41]
B
Yeah, I definitely think such an interesting question to say, like, why would that be more the case for Wonders? I think you and you answered it from a what the market wants standpoint, which is like, hey, there's never been a place for me to exercise wonder. Like, imagine putting on a job description. I like asking lots of questions, you know, like, I really like getting to the essence of the problem. You know, some of those things might be. Might be compelling, but I also think the other side might be if wonders have never had a place to put that they might have been suppressing it most of their life and having to choose another letter. And then on top of that, they're so nuanced, like, well, I guess I could do that. I guess I could do that. Well, you know, there's that. That wonder, that kind of everything's a possibility. And so I wonder if both of those factors play into it. And now I've used wonder twice in a pun during a working genius podcast.
- [18:39]
C
So one thing. One thing that that made me think of was that wanderers are also the type that usually if somebody just can't figure out what their working genius type is, if they keep going back and forth between things, a lot of times I'm like, well, you're a wanderer.
- [18:53]
A
Right? Right. So if you're not. Yeah, that's so true. So if you talk to somebody and you say, this doesn't seem right for you, and they're like, I know, I don't know either, but I just can't figure it out. It's kind of like in Myers Briggs when people are like, yeah, I think I'm this, I think I'm this. We're like, you're probably a P, which means it's hard to decide and stick with something. Whereas people that are an estj, they usually know.
- [19:15]
B
But I want to add one more thing because, Matt, when you started, it was right before working genius, and you and I worked really closely together. And at the very beginning, we thought discernment and galvanizing is my type. We thought it was your type of. And so I want to go back to this idea that, like, how limiting it is to believe or to think the wrong geniuses about yourself and wrong frustrations. Because I remember managing you and thinking like, well, if you have discernment and galvanizing, you should be rallying more people around these initiatives. Like, what? And I remember having sort of like friction filled conversations with you in hopes of that. I was like putting you in a place to succeed with your genius. And it really was actually frustrating for you and for me.
- [20:01]
C
Yeah, it was kind of like what it made me think of was it was kind of like when Pat used to manage people and before he had the working genius context, he would say, well, you can just sit around and come up with ideas. And he thought that he was giving them this awesome opportunity to like, have the coolest job ever when it wasn't their genius. It was just the job that he would want as an id. And so when I remember the way that you were pushing me when I first got brought on, it was definitely. It was hard at first to react to that and feel like I was falling short of what I was supposed to be doing and what you thought that I could do when I was definitely geared to serve the organization in a very different way.
- [20:44]
B
Well, and I think when we put you in a position, when we figured out wonder and discernment were your two geniuses, it was a total unlock, both for you and for the team. It's that force fitting. That's why, that's why I want to emphasize this point. Because if you're. If it doesn't feel right, go ahead and explore the results, like, try on different letters because it really does matter so much that you get it accurate. Because the way that you're leaning into wonder and discernment now and the value you're adding, as opposed to early on when we had it wrong, that is a. That is miles difference. And it's such a. It's. It can eliminate all sorts of unnecessary friction, judgment, guilt, all of that stuff.
- [21:27]
A
You know, it's so funny. And if you're a mom or a dad, but especially a mom, I think in society and e doesn't come up as one of your geniuses, sometimes they go like, oh, man, how can enablement not be one of my. It's like, it might. It just isn't. It doesn't mean you're not a great mom. It just means you don't get joy and energy out of. When. When your kids say, I need something, your first reaction isn't, okay, I'm going to do it. It might be you're going to discern whether they need it or not, or you're going to ask questions or you're going to get them moving. And so sometimes we have these environmental expectations which, well, since this is my job, if I don't have that genius, I'm a failure. And it's absolutely not the case. And in fact, that can really screw you up because you can try to be something you're not, and that never turns out well.
- [22:12]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. I think it goes back to, you know, I wonder too, Matt, before you jump off, like the environment you talked about leading the lacrosse team and the fraternity and all that stuff, the environment demanded that of you to be more of a galvanizer in that. And so coming to table group and feeling like, oh, yeah, I must actually, I think that's a lot of people's experience, right, Is they were like, well, the environment. My role says I have to do this, so I do it. And I guess it's not terrible. And, and so then coming into the environment and even change you. You didn't even change it once, you changed it twice to even find out where you were. And I wonder if you could speak just a little bit to, like, the feeling that was a little bit of a force fit. And then the relief you got from knowing where you actually landed on the genius scale.
- [23:04]
C
Yeah, the. The relief. I'll speak to the relief first because that one's a little more, like, clear to me. It was definitely the freedom to, like the. To have. For permission to ask the questions that I was wanting to ask and slow things down instead of speeding things up all the time. And just to be able to not feel like I was disrupting with the kind of questions I wanted to ask, with the kind of things that I wanted to have us think about as a team. The other question that you asked, which is the, the trouble with force fitting was definitely, even without thinking of the way that it looks to other people on the team or that what their expectations were of me, I was questioning how well I did things in the past and how well I like because I took pride in the fact that I thought I was a good leader and that I could delegate well and figure things out and that I did a good job in those groups. And so when I got to the table group, not only was it different because it wasn't a 21 year old around 18, 19, 20 and 21 year olds, it was a 22 year old around a bunch of people that were years older than me and was a completely different environment where I really struggled to try and do the same things that I did before. And so I started even questioning how, how good of a job I might have done in previous organizations and just questioning my skill in general, not just how it related to that specific team.
- [24:37]
A
That's interesting because in that case, because of the environment you in, you were older than those other kids. So even if you were not genuinely a G, you could g differently then you get into an environment where people are different and it's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that naturally. While Cody, on the other hand, would g even if he were in a room full of, I mean, you could put him in any room and he would probably feel pretty comfortable g people, even if they were older, wiser, more powerful than him, he'd be like, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to tell you what I think you should do.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah, that, that room full of marines sounds pretty interesting actually. Maybe I should do a, do a career change.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah, I think you'd love the Marines, Cody.
- [25:20]
B
No, would not, would not survive well there, I'm pretty sure.
- [25:25]
A
Well, all right, this is very interesting. I love and that you go back and you look at yourself when you were younger too. I always thought I was supposed to be the leader of everything. And people said, why don't you make the table group bigger? And I realize now I'm an id. I like the coming up with new ideas. I didn't want to take one idea and build a company around it and hire thousands of people to do it. I would rather enable other people to do that and be able to still live in that. But I didn't realize that until, you know, 50 something years into into my life when we came up with working genius. So it's interesting. A lot of a lot of liberation in understanding who we are. All right. Well, I think that's it for today. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Cody. Very interesting conversation. So when you take the assessment, remember, it's tough sometimes to cancel the environment out from how you're answering these questions. So when you see your results or when somebody else does, encourage them to really test it against what they know to be true, because getting it right is the most important thing. And that's it. All right. Thanks for joining us, everybody. We really appreciate talking to people who love working genius like us. And we'll talk to you next time. God bless.