99. The ID Pairing with Claire Laughlin

Summary

The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni

Episode 99: "ID Pairing with Claire Laughlin"

Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Patrick Lencioni
Guests: Claire Laughlin, Cody Thompson

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the "ID" (Invention and Discernment) Working Genius pairing, featuring master facilitator Claire Laughlin. Host Patrick Lencioni, himself an ID, and co-host Cody Thompson explore what it's like to have this pairing, how it shows up in work and life, how IDs can contribute—and sometimes frustrate—teams, and the practical value of understanding and balancing these gifts. The discussion is peppered with personal anecdotes, humor, and practical insights for anyone wanting to better harness their own or others' geniuses.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Does It Mean to Be an ID? (Invention + Discernment)

• Definition: IDs are called "discriminating ideators"—they rapidly create ideas and simultaneously vet them internally.
• Living as an ID: Both Claire and Pat describe their minds defaulting to idea-generation whenever they're not on task. For them, invention and discernment often blur together and operate in a rapid, looping process.
  • Claire: “The minute the pressure subsides... my brain starts creating new ideas... It's so hard to just not invent new things.” [03:11]
  • Pat: "It's what we do when we don't have to do something else." [03:32]

2. Internal ID Loop & Challenges

• IDs often cycle so quickly between inventing and discerning that it's hard to separate the two.
  • Pat: “Sometimes that we call it the ID loop happens so fast... it's like invent, discern, invent, discern, you know, it goes all together.” [05:46]
• This can lead to confusion about whether order (I before D) matters; ultimately, the key insight is the power of the combination.

3. Annoyances and Interpersonal Conflicts

• IDs can unintentionally frustrate others:
  • Coming across as too confident (“I could literally have thought about something three minutes before, and I'll present it as though I've been thinking about this my whole life.” – Pat [10:19])
  • Jumping to solutions quickly without explaining their reasoning.
  • Giving others (especially non-IDs) wide-open, ambiguous tasks that would energize them but drain others (e.g., asking someone with an ET pairing to "just play with it"). [17:08]
• Claire recognizes the need to ‘stay in her own lane’ with discernment at home, assigning lanes of decision-making by personal genius to avoid clashes. [08:21]

4. Strengths and Joys of Being an ID

• Deep satisfaction in being asked for advice or a challenge to solve: “When you hear the words, 'I have a problem or I need some advice,' that actually is an activation for invention discernment…” – Cody [15:45]
• Both Claire and Pat get energy from being the "doctor is in"—helping others solve problems on the fly. [15:03–15:23]
• Fast creative ideation: Pat describes looping the office to come up with podcast topics in minutes. [21:30]

5. The Importance of Wonder & Slowing Down

• Claire has learned, thanks to Working Genius, to slow down and intentionally start with Wonder—asking, “What is the actual problem that I’m solving?” [14:05]
• This prevents wasting energy inventing solutions to the wrong problems.
• Both recognize that their natural pace may need self-management to foster better collaboration (“Slow down are probably two of the words that have been said to me the most that I don’t like to hear.” – Pat [19:34])

6. Difference Between IDs and Other Pairings

• IDs are constantly filtering new ideas with discernment, so their ideas are “three-quarter baked,” compared to WIs (Wonder + Invention), who prefer to run initial ideas by a discerner afterward.
  • Cody: “I think like people might look at that and think like that’s a weird label [discriminating ideator] to feel pride in. But...you guys...don’t just throw out stuff for the sake of throwing out stuff. You’ve really thought about it.” [22:30]

7. Applying the Working Genius Model

• Claire finds that virtually every business problem takes on new clarity when filtered through the Working Genius model, making her a more effective consultant and teacher. [24:36]
• Both panelists note the model’s pervasive value not just at work, but in family life and self-awareness.

8. Podcasting & ID Geniuses

• Many podcast hosts are IDs: they enjoy “figuring it out as they go” and have a well of new topics. [19:53]
  • Cody: “In some ways...I think that's because they naturally feel like, 'I got plenty ideas'... I would have run out.” [21:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On idea generation:
  Claire: “It's so hard to just not invent new things.” [03:11]
• On presenting rough ideas as facts:
  Pat: "I could literally have thought about something three minutes before, and I'll present it as though I've been thinking about this my whole life." [10:19]
• On self-management:
  Claire: “I have to really practice all the time. I have to lean in and teach myself...slow the mind down. Lean into the wonder. Be more curious.” [18:36]
• On giving an ET the wrong type of project:
  Claire: “I would give her all this ID work... No clarity at all... and she's an ET... It's the best job in the world. He goes, no, no, no, for you it is. For me, it's a nightmare.” [17:08]
• On the quick solution trap:
  Pat: “There's a problem to solve. And I'll say just do this. But I don't explain how I got there...rather than just say, just do this.” [18:34]
• The lightbulb moment:
  Pat: “They're like, oh wait, there's a working genius explanation for this. And it's so fun...people's light bulb goes off.” [25:48]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [01:16] – Introduction of guest Claire Laughlin and the episode topic: ID pairing.
• [03:11] – Claire describes the restless invention of IDs.
• [05:46] – Discussion of the ID loop and whether order matters.
• [08:21] – Claire on dividing discernment “lanes” at home to avoid conflict.
• [10:19] – Pat on how IDs might appear more confident than warranted.
• [14:05] – Claire's self-training to begin with Wonder.
• [15:03–15:23] – Both share how energizing "problem asks" are for IDs.
• [17:08] – The disconnect when assigning ID tasks to non-IDs.
• [18:34] – Jumping to solutions without taking others through the process.
• [19:53] – IDs as podcast hosts and their preference for improvisation.
• [21:12] – Cody highlights the inexhaustible idea well of IDs.
• [22:30] – Difference in how IDs and WIs handle ideas and discernment.
• [24:36] – Claire on how Working Genius changed her consulting practice.
• [25:48] – The model’s transformative effect on workplace understanding and relationships.

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Episode Takeaways

• For Teams: IDs add fast, creative problem-solving but must be mindful to explain their process and avoid leaving others behind.
• For Individuals: Understanding your pairings increases self-awareness, prevents burnout, and enables more joyous collaboration.
• For Facilitators & Coaches: The Working Genius is a powerful lens for almost any interpersonal or process problem—train yourself and others to name and balance their gifts.

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, humorous, and practical—full of playful self-deprecation (“Oh, so you’re an ID? ADHD?”), genuine admiration for the model’s power, and collaborative riffing. The tone is invitational rather than instructional, making listeners feel seen and understood, whatever their Working Genius.

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For those who haven’t listened:
You’ll come away with a rich understanding of the ID pairing, how to leverage it, common pitfalls, and why self-awareness is everything. The episode is packed with real-world applications and encouraging examples from home, coaching, and work life.

Transcript

[A]

Prior to the Working Genius, I try to start with the what is the problem I'm solving? Before I announce my ideas to the world, I would run down a thousand rabbit holes, you know, like, oh, yeah, this sounds great. And I wasn't applying enough of my discernment. And now that I understand the model and how those two things work together, I don't even know what it is. It's like magic. Now I have to discern because I'm over inventing right now. I'm inventing too many things at once. I need to back off, discern, out of all these ideas, what's the right thing to do now?

[B]

Welcome to the Working Genius podcast, where we discuss anything and everything having to do with the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life. I'm Pat Linceoni, your host, joined by Cody Thompson, my co host. How you doing today, Cody?

[C]

I'm doing great, Excited for this conversation.

[B]

And people have been asking you lately, who's that picture up there? It's Michael Scott. He's that prison mic, right?

[C]

Prison Mike from the office.

[B]

From the office, that's right.

[C]

He's trying to convince everybody that it's fun to work at the paper company. So.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

It's about joy and fulfillment in the workplace. So that's very appropriate.

[B]

That's what that was all about. In fact, it would be interesting to do them the working genius of all those people someday, based on what we've seen. But, Cody, we have a guest here today. Can you introduce our guest?

[C]

Yes. We have Claire Laughlin with us. We're so excited to have you, Claire. Pat, normally you asked me the topic, so I'm going to just say it on my own here, which is show me your id. And the reason for that is because Claire, like you, Pat, is invention and discernment as a genius. So that's the topic of today's show. We've got Claire here to help us dissect what that means.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. And I have not got a chance to meet or to talk in depth with a lot of IDs, Claire. Yeah, and I meet a lot. Usually they're people interview me on a podcast.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

And I think I'm a little reluctant to go into this one because I think it's easier to understand others than ourselves sometimes. So you and I get to talk about what it is like to be an id and the joy for all the people that work with us. It's a pure joy. Pure joy. Nothing but we're glad to have you here. If people don't know, Claire is one of our master facilitators. She trains a lot of the people to get certified. She does tons of tons of work around working genius. And we're going to ask you some questions about your experience around that. But first, and most importantly, we're going to talk about what it means to be an id. And what's the two word description for we're the discriminating ideator. Is that right, Claire?

[A]

That's right. That's what we are.

[B]

If somebody said to you, so what. What is an id? How would you describe that?

[A]

Oh, my. Yeah, it. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because it's like. It's hard.

[B]

You.

[A]

You just take these things for granted. You just think. Everyone must think this way.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. But when I think about it, I think, okay, so my. I tend to absorb a lot of ideas and invent things on the fly. And honestly, one of the ways I really know that I'm an ID is the minute the pressure subsides, whatever, my day is like, you know, I have to do stuff. I'm in T mode or whatever. The minute the pressure subsides, my brain starts creating new ideas. I start. I go for a walk and I start to relax, and I'm like, oh, I could do this, or what about that? And I start brainstorming new stuff to do. It's amazing. It's so hard to just not invent new things.

[B]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I suppose this is true about all working genius. It's what we do when we don't have to do something else.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like yesterday, Tracy and I were working on an article because she's our, you know, editor in chief of everything and edits everything I do. And she said, so anyway, here's some direction. I want you to give some thought to this, maybe come up with a different approach. And she was like, so you can do it whenever you want? And I said, are you kidding?

[A]

I'm already doing it.

[B]

As soon as we get off the phone, I'll have it back to you in 45 minutes. Because we do love doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, Claire, it's funny, my very first interaction with you, if I remember, is we the first. I think I was a part of facilitating the first three certifications or something. And I think you were in one of the first three working genius certifications. Is that right?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I. Even in the first interaction, I remember because you. You had done facilitating and coaching and Consulting before, and you'd used a bunch of different models, and you're in this environment where we're teaching you working genius for the first time. And even in that environment, I saw you invent and discern, you were like, oh, man, this is how I could use this with clients. And you were absorbing sort of the model and the implications and applications it had in the world. And so even that initial interaction of you as an inventor, discerner, like, listening to the model and then immediately starting to iterate on, how do I put this out in the world and what can I do with my clients? That was just an immediate indication that the ID label that you got as by taking the assessment was correct.

[A]

Yeah. That is spot on. As soon as. And I think about it all the time, oh, I could do this. Putting the pieces together and, you know, coming up with things.

[B]

You know, when I can't sleep at night, I literally lay in bed and, like, if I have a business problem to solve or something that requires some creativity, I'm like, oh, good, I can't sleep. I'll do this, and then I'll fall asleep. But I do it in peace because it's, like, just so fun.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which is kind of interesting. Now, before we talk about all the ways that we annoy other people, and I'm. And I'm looking forward to comparing notes, like how your husband gets annoyed by it, and my wife and other people that work with us. But. But let's talk about. What's interesting about an ID is that the I and the D are right next to each other.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so sometimes that we call it the ID loop happens so fast that we're doing it simultaneously. It's not like we go, oh, I'm inventing and I'm discerning first. I will. It's like invent a certain event, discern. You know, it goes all together. Does that make sense to you?

[A]

Absolutely. Because sometimes I wonder if I actually am a DI or an id, because they happen so simultaneously.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I think I am an ID because like I said, as soon as my brain calms down, I invent new things that are not prompted by something else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the D I, I was, you know, just sort of playing with that, thinking, could I be a D I? And I only say that because sometimes when I get stuck, I need to pull something in and then react to it, and then it starts the invention again. Right. So I think. I think that idea that the I and the D are so closely connected is really key.

[B]

Yeah, you know, I. I'm still not sure about the importance of order. You know, I mean, this has only been like. It's been less than five years or it's been five years since we first thought of this idea, and we're playing with that. And Matt can correct me, because Matt is the guy that does a lot of the research, but it's the combo of the two. Because when people say, I think you're more of an I than a D, it really depends on the circumstances. And the thing about the pairing is I can't imagine being, for me, an inventor without discerning or a discerner without inventing. So I think that's why the pat. The. That's the power of the pairings.

[A]

I totally agree. Because I always wonder about that. How could you be. I know there are people who are D and I is a frustration or something, or their eye and D is a frustration. And I think, how does that work? How do you not play those? I don't know. You know, I can't answer that question, really.

[B]

You know, in the early days. And Matt and Cody will remember this, and so will Tracy and everybody. And that is that when we developed this, at first we thought just that we weren't. That we thought, the pairings are interesting. Then we finally came to the conclusion after working with it for a little while that, oh, the pairings are everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you said, an. It is so different than an id.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so you can go, we both have I, and there is something there. But the other letter really reflects kind of the total of it, and it's really important. So. So we're both IDs. How do. How can we annoy other people? You rarely annoy people. I annoy people all the time. But maybe you can go first and tell me the one or two times you've ever annoyed somebody being an id.

[A]

Well, my household. One of the things is we're all discerners in my little home. Yeah, that's very annoying. I'm just saying that's very annoying. You know, I think we all think we're right about pretty much everything. You know, we all have this sort of gut feel. And so the way I work with that is I try to discern in my lane. You know, I just try to discern in my own lane. So I'm like, okay, when it comes to travel, I am the discerner. I'm going to make the travel plans. That's my lane. When it comes to home projects, my husband's going to Be the discerner. That's his lane. I'm not gonna.

[B]

What's his working genius?

[A]

He's a dt. So as my son. My son's also a dt. And then galvanizing and enablement are his frustrations. And I don't remember the order of W. And I. I think he's. I think he's a DTI W.

[B]

E, G. Right.

[A]

I'm pretty sure you weren't.

[B]

That. You weren't that far apart.

[A]

No, I know, but. And then my. I think the inventive part for me is, you know, that I am always coming up with new ideas. I mean, I'm on the go, I'm moving, I'm thinking, I'm. You know. In addition, I also just sort of move my body a lot, so it's really hard for me to sit still. And so maybe that's part of it, but I've always got something that I gotta be working on or working towards or doing, you know.

[B]

Oh, so you're an id? Adhd.

[A]

I might be. I might be.

[B]

Got it. You know, one of the things I do, I do many annoying things. First of all, my third letter is G. And I don't know if it's because of that or not, but when I'm IDing with people, they think I'm Gene, because I'll tell them as though I'm feeling very confident in it, even though I'm not. I mean, I could literally have thought about something three minutes before, and I'll present it as though I've been thinking about this my whole life. And so I'm constantly telling people, hey, if it sounds like I'm Gene, I promise I'm not. I just thought of this and. And you. I'm looking for your disagreement, if you have that. So. So it's really. I annoy people by sounding more confident than I actually am. I just. Can you relate to that at all?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I do that a lot when I'm teaching. You know, when I'm. When I'm in that consulting facilitative role. Oh, yeah, I'll come. I'll come across with a lot of confidence and certainty. Sort of like, okay, this is what. This is what this means, you know, at times. And I need to kick in my wonder a little bit. I think I'm a. I'm pretty sure I'm a wg. I. Yeah, I'm sure I tested as a wg, and sometimes I think those are different. But G for me is. It's definitely lower than my W. Well.

[B]

You know, in this podcast, you've said I wonder three times.

[A]

Oh, have I already.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do think yours is higher and mine. My third is G. Yeah. So I probably more like, okay, let's go.

[A]

Yeah, that. That third really makes a difference.

[C]

Well, and some of the way I experience what you just described, which is like kind of on the other end of invention discernment.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It can sound like galvanizing sometimes, because it sounds like, oh, I'm trying to get people motivated around this idea. But the other way that I think it's strictly related to just invention and discernment is what you described is like, I come up with an idea, and I go through the loop of vetting it over and over and over again. So you're kind of arguing against yourself for. Even if it's only three minutes of vetting and. And kind of curating the idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When you present it, it can feel like when it's met with initial waves of discernment from other people, you're not trying to necessarily argue for your idea. You're just saying like, well, I've already thought of that because I'm a discerner also. I've already thought of that because I'm a discerner as well. So I think that there's. There's some version of that, which is. That can appear very confident that you're right, but it's because you've done the internal process of vetting, curating, making it better over and over again. It's not just a raw idea. You threw out the world.

[B]

Yeah. And nobody sees that discernment going on. And so when we say it, we're like, well, don't. You know, I've already thought about these things, and they're like, no, I will.

[C]

Ask both of you one question, because I think about this a lot as it relates to Pat and I working together as a. Some of. Including working genius. Some of the biggest things that we've put out in the world. Pat, some of the books that you've written are a result of starting with the right wonder question, because you're an inventor discerner. And sometimes if you don't think of it in order like that, you can move right to invention as an id. You know, like, you go right to invention so.

[B]

Well, every great idea starts with somebody asking the question.

[C]

Right. And so, like, I remember being in the room when wrote the Motive, for example, like you the. So you would come back from this event with all these CEOs, and they were answering you were giving them answers, and you were kind of experiencing their pushback to your answers. And we went back up to in. Into wonder, which was like, why is that? And when you. And so the question I have for you guys, which led to, oh, well, there's this whole motive behind whether you're. Why you're a leader and why you're not, you know, why you should be a leader. How do you guys prompt wonder in your own lives? Like, Pat, I try to do this for you, but we don't. Sometimes we skip it. But like, Claire, how do you think about making sure you're not starting at invention and you're actually starting all the way back at wonder?

[A]

Well, I have the working genius to thank for this, I have to say, but I have trained myself to always start with this. Okay, wait, what is the actual problem that I'm solving?

[C]

Mm.

[A]

Right. What is the problem or the opportunity here and trying to ground myself there? Because I will invent stuff that does not need to be invented. Absolutely. And so I try to start there.

[B]

You know what it is for me, it's interesting that you were just saying that, because I'm not as good. You have the wonder. So you're like, why am I doing this? I love Q and A. Literally, if you hooked me up to an EKG or some monitor of my happiness, when somebody comes up to me and says, can I ask you a question? I'm like, can you please? Thank you. Because essentially they're saying, I've got some wonder here. Here's a supply of wonder. And I'm like, oh, so now I'm gonna ID that. Something. Something that somebody wants. And when I give speeches, I was just talking to somebody about prepping a speech yesterday. In fact, two people. And when they go, we love Q and A, if you'll do that. I'm like, I do Q and A from the beginning of my talk. Because that's what feeds me.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So I like to. If I, I. When I used to look at, like, the doctor is in, you know, Charlie Brown Lucy sitting there, I could just sit in a booth and have people walk by down the street and go, okay, I need you to help me solve a problem. And I'd be like, oh, I'm the happiest guy in the world.

[A]

That's like my dream job. That's like my dream job. Really?

[B]

I need advice, please.

[A]

I always say, like, I can work a 50 hour workweek and I can be commuting home in traffic at the end of this week, and a girlfriend Will call me and she'd be like, I got a problem at work. Will you. You know. Oh, it's like the best drive home ever. I am home. I'm all excited. And yeah, it's. I don't know what it.

[C]

Which I think is super interesting because, like, some people might interpret that as enablement, like a people oriented. I want to support you thing. But. But when you. When you hear the words, either of you hear the words, I have a problem or I have a. I need some advice that actually is an activation for invention discernment, not I want to help you. You know, like.

[B]

And Claire and I are very similar. Ent are our least.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But if my wife calls me, if Laura calls me and says, hey, Pat, can you. Right away my. My blood pressure is going to like, stop by and pick this up and run this errand and do this, then I'm like, oh, can you give me some advice? Of course.

[A]

So the e. Energy up, energy down. Yeah.

[B]

So if it's advice, counsel, or an idea, and because we use this in my house, she'll say, I need your. Your ID right now. And I'm just like, so happy.

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

And she knows now to go, I need your ET right now. And I just go, okay, what do you need?

[A]

That's so true. I think another way that I drive people crazy is like, I tell this story a lot, but when. When we first started with the working genius, right, My business partner Marissa and I were working together, and I would give her all this ID work. Like the blank page work, like, no clarity at all. And she's an et And I'd be like, oh, I don't know. Just play with it. Have at it, you know?

[B]

And you think you're giving her a gift because that would be a gift to you. We hired a guy, Joe, in our office here. He was an et and I said, come up with your own job title. Decide what you should on. Tell us what success looks like. And he was like, this is a nightmare. And I'm like, no, no, no. It's. It's the best job in the world. He goes, no, for you it is. For me, it's a nightmare.

[C]

Yeah, Okay.

[B]

I just thought of the way I annoy people. I've done it with my kids, and they're all their life, thank God. Now I know the working genius, and we can explain it. I jump to a solution very fast because I'm doing the ID loop and I don't tell people how I got there because I'm intuiting. And I'm like, like, like, like, there's that on the. The price is right. Cody was once on the prices. Right. What did you win, Cody?

[C]

I won a dinette set worth about $899.

[B]

Isn't that funny? What is a dinette set? But we know something. So, so that game on, on the higher, lower game.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You know, like, is the price higher or lower? I love that. I love guessing and I love, like, intuiting. And I'll, I'll, I'll jump five steps ahead and my kids will go, yeah, you always guess right, dad. But the problem with that is there's a problem to solve. And I'll say, just do this. But I don't explain how I got there. I don't take them through the process. And they're like, could you just explain that you heard my question, that how you thought through this and why you're telling me to do this rather than just say, just do this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Does that resonate with you, Claire?

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think some of these things are really inherent to the way I work. And yet I've, I've untrained, I've trained myself around them, you know, partially because I teach managers how to be coaches. And so I'm like, oh, I better. I better practice. I better practice coaching people and, you know, listening better. And I, of course, I feel like such a hypocrite if I don't practice what I preach. So I have to really practice all the time. I have to lean in and teach myself. No, slow down. Slow the mind down. Lean into the wonder. Be more curious. Add the loop where I ask, well, what do you think? You know, I have to. I just, I've learned my way around that. But I think naturally, without that self discipline and training, I would be a mess.

[B]

Slow down are probably two of the words that have been said to me the most that I don't like to hear. Because.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What I love is when they go, I only have three minutes. Just tell me what you think I should do.

[A]

I'm like, oh, great, that's my favorite.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we can't always. We can't always do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's so funny. You know, so many podcast hosts, I've talked to our IDs.

[A]

Yeah, what do you think that is?

[B]

And it's usually the ones that, that they come on and they're like, yeah, I don't know exactly what we're going to talk about. We'll figure it out as we go. Yeah. Because they like, to respond and come up with new ideas in the moment.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I actually think that too much preparation for me is not a good thing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know what's interesting, Pat? I think about when, you know, it was probably four years ago now when we started this podcast, or five years ago when we started at the Table podcast. And I remember. So I'm a discerner galvanizer with invention as a competency. And I remember setting up the podcast and thinking, I even told you this. I was like, we could probably do, like, 20 podcasts, and maybe that's enough, you know, like, because. And in part, I didn't understand that. My limitation is. Well, I could probably think of 20 things that are interesting to talk about. But you almost regularly. I mean, our whole process, Pat, is relying on your invention and discernment to come up with an interesting topic. And for me, someone without invention, we would have shut this thing down years ago, because I would have run out. So I think that in some ways, when you ask, why are so many podcast hosts IDs, I think it's because they. They naturally feel like, I've got plenty. I got plenty ideas that I think would be interesting for people to consume.

[B]

You know, Claire, in the early days and doing our podcast, sometimes we'd. We'd schedule when to record them, and sometimes we get there, we go, we have no topics. And I go, okay, just a second. And I would literally do two loops around the office, which took about two minutes. And I go, okay, I got it.

[C]

And.

[B]

And I'm not bragging. It's just. That's how we think. Because just so everybody knows, there are so many things I can't do that I'm paralyzed by that I'm frustrated by. And so. But that's one. When somebody goes, you have two minutes to come up with a new idea. I'm. I'm like, oh, yay, I could do it.

[A]

I could do that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah, I know. That's. That's true. I think that's true because there's just a million ways to approach something as an id. We always think about, oh, there's something else. There's something else.

[B]

Yeah. You know when we titled it the Discriminating Ideator, because we've got that word, discriminating. But discriminating is like, you're coming up with ideas, but you're actually thinking through them while you're doing it. That's where that term comes from. It's like. Like, my wife is a wi, and I have so many friends that are WIs. They, they're a stream of new ideas too. But they'll be the first to say then I need to present them to somebody with D with discernment. Whereas I'm. We're doing that loop inside our brain.

[C]

And so you know what's funny about that label, Pat is like probably people without discernment would be like, I don't want to be called discriminating ideator. Like but when you have discernment, it's almost this badge of honor that you're like, no, no, no, I've thought through. I don't just present bad ideas, you know, like or, or half baked ideas. I've really kind of three quarter baked these ideas. And so I think like people might look at that and think like oh, that's a weird label to feel pride in. But as you know, three discerners, I don't have invention. But you guys being the discriminating ideator, saying like yeah, I don't just throw out stuff for the sake of throwing out stuff. I've really thought about it.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. And I'll go ahead.

[A]

I feel like I need to that that one thing I've really learned through the working genius is to balance the D and the I. Because I prior to the working genius, I don't know, now I lean into my D and like I said, I try to start with the what is the problem I'm solving before I announce my ideas to the world or to my team. Let's just say before I be like, let's do this. Because I would run down a thousand rabbit holes, you know, like, oh yeah, let's. This sounds great. And I wasn't applying enough of my discernment and now that I understand model on how those two things work together. I don't even know what it is. It's like magic. It's like just knowing the words and being like, oh yeah, that's true. That's all I, you know, then I go, now I have to discern because I'm over inventing right now. I'm inventing too many things at once. I need to back off. Discern what is the out of all these ideas, what's the right thing to do now that's great. You're very self aware leaning into that so much more.

[B]

Claire, when you're in front of a client because you do a lot of you, you do work around working geni genius all the time. How many times a week are you in front of people talking about working.

[A]

Genius probably about five times a month on average. You know?

[B]

Okay, so when you're in front of people doing working genius stuff and they ask you a question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have pretty good confidence? Like, yeah, I can. I can figure this out.

[A]

Yes. Yes. I mean, I feel like I don't know what it is. I mean, I'm not just saying this because I'm on your podcast right now, but since. Since I've been introduced to the working genius, it's like light bulbs. Like, almost everything. Almost every business problem that I'm hearing, I've. I'm automatically filtering through the working genius because I feel like I hear business problems about, okay, people are not appreciating or getting along or understanding each other. That's one. Or process. Like, we're not. We're not sharing a view on how this work should be done. And those two things, simply speaking, are so well positioned for the working genius. So that's. I just think through that lens a lot, and I. I have developed some confidence around discerning that and saying, we need to do this.

[B]

I love the way you said that. We have two women in our office contract that do contract work here. They're part of our team, but they both. When we came here and we told them about working genius, at first, they're like, okay, this is. I've done other tools before. And then, like, two weeks later, they were like, oh, my gosh, I'm seeing this everywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas I used to be frustrated or I would judge this or wonder about this. They're like, oh, wait, there's a working genius explanation for this. And it's so fun. And I'm preaching to the choir, because the people listening to this podcast know this. It's so fun to watch when people's light bulb goes off and they're like, I never realized how much my geniuses and frustrations fail factored into this. And that's the beauty. It's like you get to lean more into your geniuses, help others, help you lean out of your frustrations by letting them lean into their geniuses. And it's a beautiful thing.

[C]

And I love hearing that from you, Claire, because we get on this podcast every week, and I have a. Regularly in the office, I'll say sort of tongue in cheek. When we're dealing with a problem. I'll say something like, I don't know if you know this, but, you know, working genius solves everything as a joke, but I actually also kind of believe it, really. And so to hear you say, like, it's not just Pat and I, snake oil salesman saying, like, man, I can't see the world in any other way. You know, at this point, I really do think that if you apply it to any problem, it's helpful. You know, maybe not the entire solution, but it does help you get closer to the solution. Regardless.

[B]

Last night I was driving home from work, crazy day, and I call Tracy, my book editor extraordinaire, and does all this great stuff and who was totally integral into doing the Working Genius. And we're talking about how we go about editing articles and everything else. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, you're so good at this, and I like doing this. And she goes, I hate to say it, Pat, but working genius, it really works, you know, and we're. Every day, we're like, oh, my gosh, this is so helpful.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

Okay, on that note, we'll end this because we like to keep these under a half hour. Claire, thank you for joining us. Thanks for all you do out there, teaching people, certifying people, and working with clients. And thanks always, Cody. And thank you all for joining us on the Working Genius podcast. We'll talk to you next time. God bless.