10.1.25 Washington and New York power plays, Moldovans’ election, and conversation advice from Jefferson Fisher

Summary

Podcast Summary: The World and Everything In It

Episode: Washington and New York power plays, Moldovans’ election, conversation advice from Jefferson Fisher
Date: October 1, 2025
Producer: WORLD Radio
Hosts: Nick Eicher, Lindsay Mast

---

Overview

This episode tackles the high-stakes political maneuvers in Washington (including the government shutdown and military leadership changes), New York’s leftward electoral shift, Moldova’s crucial elections resisting Russian interference, and an in-depth interview with viral communication expert Jefferson Fisher—offering hands-on advice for better conversations. Also included is a cultural commentary on the critical role of marriage in society.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Washington Power Plays: Government Shutdown & Military Ethos

Government Funding Crisis:

• Senate Vote: The Senate failed to pass a stopgap funding bill, triggering a partial government shutdown. The bill needed a 60-vote threshold but only secured 55. Two Democrats broke ranks to support it, but not enough to pass. (01:02–01:13)
• Partisan Dispute:
  • Democrats objected to provisions they argued would cut healthcare benefits, framing their position as a stand to protect health coverage, especially in the face of Republican cost-cutting. (01:35–01:37)
  • Republicans accused Democrats of demanding $1.5 trillion in additional spending and criticized "waste, fraud, and abuse" in government programs. (02:03)
• White House Response: Agencies instructed to implement orderly shutdown plans.

Notable Quotes:

• “No plan, no program, no reform, no formation will ultimately succeed unless we have the right people and the right culture at the War Department.”
  — Pete Hegseth, Secretary of War (War Dept.), (00:15, 11:15)

Military Leadership and Culture Shift:

• President Trump, flanked by Secretary Pete Hegseth, ceremonially renames the Secretary of Defense to Secretary of War, emphasizing a shift away from previous woke policies to a fighting "warrior ethos." All combat roles will now require the highest male physical standards. (04:58–05:31)

---

2. The Shutdown’s Political Calculus

Segment: Washington Wednesday (06:23–20:26)

• Democratic Tactics: Chuck Schumer, wary from backlash the last time he negotiated across the aisle, adopts a firm stance, emphasizing protection of health care subsidies. (07:07–07:29)
• Republican Tactics: The GOP openly refuses to fund healthcare for undocumented immigrants but also pursues the "hidden agenda" of leveraging the shutdown to make deep federal cuts, guided by OMB Director Russ Vought. (09:22–10:10)
• Trump’s Leverage Strategy:
  “We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them and irreversible by them, like cutting vast numbers of people out... So they’re taking a risk by having a shutdown.”
  — President Trump (09:39)

---

3. New York Power Plays: The Socialist Surge

• Election Update: NYC Mayor Eric Adams ends his reelection bid after losing the Democratic primary to socialist Zoran Mamdani, while Andrew Cuomo launches an independent run. With vote splitting, Mamdani is favored to win, but his capacity to enact radical change is questionable due to limited mayoral powers and historical backlash to left-wing governance. (13:37–16:26)
• Analysis:
  “...his time as mayor, assuming he has it, is sort of doomed to fail…these sort of very left wing governments have not worked out well in New York City.”
  — Hunter Baker (14:42–16:26)

---

4. Christian Nationalism in the U.S.: Definitions & Debates

• Discussion sparked by pastor Douglas Wilson’s recent church plant in DC and rising media focus on "Christian nationalism" with the upcoming U.S. 250th birthday. (16:26–20:19)
• Defining the Term:
  “I think that Christian nationalism refers to, or return to, the established churches of centuries past, where the church and government are united as entities.”
  — Hunter Baker (17:22–18:54)
• Vitality of Free Churches:
  “In the US, where we have a pretty serious institutional separation of church and state, the church is far more vital and influential than in those [European] places...”
  — Hunter Baker (19:09–20:19)

---

5. World Tour: Moldova’s Pivotal Election

Timestamps: 21:17–26:45
Reporter: Ginny Lind Schmidt

• Backdrop & Result: Moldova’s pro-European Solidarity and Action Party wins, defying Russian meddling, mass arrests of alleged agents, and attempts to sway the vote with illicit funds.
• Experts:
  • Orisia Lucevich (Chatham House) details Russian tactics: vote buying, energy blackmail, and psychological warfare.
  • Ivana Stradner (FDD): Russia’s hybrid war on Moldova includes energy cutoffs, religious influence, and information warfare.
• Wider Implications:
  This battle represents “democracy versus autocracy,” highlighting the need for Western forensic and media support to resist Russian subterfuge.

Memorable Moment:
“It is also, for example, what’s happening right now with drone incursion. People forget that this is also Russian psychological warfare to make sure to scare people in the West. So we do not support Ukraine.”
— Orisia Lucevich (24:57)

---

6. Featured Interview: Jefferson Fisher on Healthy Communication

Timestamps: 27:17–34:23

Background: Jefferson Fisher, a small-town lawyer, unexpectedly becomes a viral communication coach (6M Instagram, 3M Facebook, 1M TikTok) with practical advice distilled in The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More.

Key Advice & Insights:

• Accidental Influencer Origin Story:
  “What God had in store was something very different...I could help so many more people talking about communication than I could...with this legal need.”
  — Jefferson Fisher (28:54)
• Toolkit over Theory: Fisher’s teachings avoid abstract communication theory and instead provide concrete, try-it-yourself tactics. (29:50–30:23)
• Biblical Influence:
  “There are so many different aspects in the Bible that relate to asking for wisdom and also the power of the tongue.”
  — Jefferson Fisher (30:42)
• Don’t Just Win Arguments:
  “When you set out to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship.”
  — Jefferson Fisher (31:32)
• Boundaries in Communication:
  Advice on drawing necessary boundaries, recognizing when it’s healthy to disengage from toxic individuals, and the difference between self-protection and avoidance. (32:32–34:23)

---

7. Cultural Commentary: The Importance of Marriage

Timestamps: 35:10–39:31
Commentator: Janie B. Cheney

• Historical Reflection: Cheney reviews the decline of marriage in the U.S., contrasting covenantal marriages with today’s preference for kinship or “blood” ties, and warning of the societal destabilization that can result.
• Quote:
  “Tribalism and blood feuds may not be in our future, but social chaos looms. The reformation of America begins at home.”
  — Janie B. Cheney (39:26)

---

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “No plan, no program, no reform, no formation will ultimately succeed unless we have the right people and the right culture at the War Department.”
  – Pete Hegseth (00:15, 11:15)

• “We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them and irreversible by them, like cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that they like, cutting programs that they like.”
  – President Trump (09:39)

• “When you set out to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship.”
  – Jefferson Fisher (31:32)

• “In the US… the church is far more vital and influential than in those [European] places.”
  – Hunter Baker (19:09)

• “Tribalism and blood feuds may not be in our future, but social chaos looms. The reformation of America begins at home.”
  – Janie B. Cheney (39:26)

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:02 – Senate vote and partial shutdown
• 04:58 – Trump and Hegseth address generals; new military ethos
• 09:39 – Trump outlines shutdown strategy
• 13:37 – New York mayoral election analysis
• 16:26 – National conversation on Christian nationalism
• 21:17 – Moldova’s election: resisting Russian influence
• 27:17 – Interview with Jefferson Fisher: Communication skills
• 35:10 – Janie B. Cheney commentary on marriage and society

---

Tone and Language

The episode balances urgent, matter-of-fact reporting (on politics and international affairs) with thoughtful, reflective interviews and commentary. Panel discussions mix journalistic directness with scholarly and faith-based insight, while the segment with Jefferson Fisher brings a practical, conversational, and encouraging tone.

---

For Listeners

• This summary highlights each segment’s substance and the personalities behind the headlines.
• The episode is particularly useful for those wanting to understand current fault lines in American politics, lessons from global democracy struggles, and practical tools for personal growth in communication and relationships.
• Skip from segment to segment using the provided timestamps for in-depth listening on topics that interest you most.

Transcript

[Lindsay Mast]

Good morning. He prefers the title Secretary of War. Pete Hegseth dismantling woke and calling in his generals for a pep talk on building the warrior ethos.

[Hunter Baker]

No plan, no program, no reform, no formation will ultimately succeed unless we have the right people and the right culture at the War Department.

[Nick Eicher]

Washington Wednesday is coming up later, the small town lawyer whose everyday advice went viral.

[Jefferson Fisher]

What I teach is very practical, practical, it's very short, it's very concise. I want to help people.

[Nick Eicher]

And world. Commentator Janie B. Cheney on the necessity of marriage.

[Lindsay Mast]

It's Wednesday, October 1st. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Lindsay Mast.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.

[Lindsay Mast]

Up next, Kent Covington has today's news on Capitol Hill.

[Kent Covington]

Last night, the Senate voted on whether to keep the government funded into November.

[Hunter Baker]

On this vote, The A's are 55 and the nays are 45. The bill upon reconsideration is not passed.

[Kent Covington]

The yeas had the majority but did not meet the 60 vote threshold needed. And with that, the federal government partially shut down. At midnight, two Democrats joined the Senate's 53 Republicans in voting yes on a clean stopgap funding bill that would have extended the current government funding until just before thank Thanksgiving. Democratic Senator Chris Coons voted no.

[Hunter Baker]

This is about health care.

[Kent Covington]

This is about my party saying enough is enough. Democrats charged that provisions in what President Trump called his one big beautiful bill cut health care benefits for many Americans and they demanded changes as part of the funding package. Republicans say that law cuts waste, fraud and abuse in health care. And GOP Senator John Kennedy said Democrats would not agree to fund the government unless Republicans agreed to make it bigger.

[Hunter Baker]

We want you to commit to spending $1.5 trillion more than you're spending now.

[Kent Covington]

After the vote, the White House Office of Management and Budget issued a memo saying affected agencies should now execute their plans for an orderly shutdown. Hamas says it is studying President Trump's new 20 point proposal to end the war in Gaza, but the president says the terror group will have to provide an answer soon.

[Hunter Baker]

We're going to do about three or four days. We'll see how it is. All of the Arab countries are signed up, the Muslim countries all signed up. Israel's all signed up. We're just waiting for Hamas.

[Kent Covington]

Numerous countries in the Middle east and beyond have thrown their support behind the deal, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the uae, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Indonesia and Pakistan. That plan calls for an immediate cease fire, hostages to be released within 72 hours and Israel pulling back troops while keeping a security perimeter. It also requires Hamas to effectively disarm. And in Israel, some residents are expressing cautious optimism about the peace plan, while others are taking a wait and see approach. Adi Naseem was a visitor at the Nova Music Festival Memorial.

[Hunter Baker]

I believe that it can go both ways. I think that it's definitely an effort.

[Nick Eicher]

To change something, but there has been.

[Hunter Baker]

Efforts the whole time during this whole war, and change hasn't really happened. So I think it's all up in the air.

[Kent Covington]

Meantime, some Palestinians in the west bank city of Nablus were less than enthusiastic about the plan. One resident calls the people behind the plan liars who care nothing about peace and just want to force Palestinians to leave the land and hand it over to Israel. However, the Palestinian Authority, which oversees portions of the west bank, has welcomed the peace plan. At the White House, President Trump on Tuesday announced a new deal between his administration and Pfizer. Under the deal, the drugmaker will provide many of its drugs to the federal government at the same lower prices at which they're sold in Europe and other developed nations.

[Hunter Baker]

In terms of pricing, it's going to be great for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security is going to be great for everything because you're medicine costs are coming way down.

[Kent Covington]

Trump made the announcement alongside Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla and top health officials in the Oval Office. He also rolled out a new website called Trump Rx, where Americans will be able to purchase medicines directly from drug makers. President says additional deals with other companies are expected soon. And in Quantico, Virginia, Tuesday, the president addressed a rather extraordinary gathering of some 800 military generals and admirals.

[Hunter Baker]

To each and every one of you, I thank you for your unwavering devotion to the armed forces and to the country.

[Kent Covington]

He did so alongside Pentagon chief Pete Hegseth. Hegseth, of course, was confirmed by the Senate as secretary of Defense, still his official title. But the president now calls him the secretary of War, a ceremonial title change that made sense in light of Hegseth's message to commanders.

[Hunter Baker]

From this moment forward, the only mission of of the newly restored Department of War is this war fighting, preparing for war and preparing to win, unrelenting and uncompromising in that pursuit.

[Kent Covington]

And he added that at his direction, each branch will now ensure that every combat role returns to the highest male physical standard. Because, he said, those jobs are life or death. I'm Kent Covington. And straight ahead, Washington Wednesday, Hunter Baker. Plus a special report on World Tour and later learning to communicate clearly. This is the world and Everything in it.

[Nick Eicher]

It's Wednesday, the 1st of October. This is World Radio. We're so glad you've joined us today. Good morning. I'm Nick Eicher.

[Lindsay Mast]

And I'm Lindsay Mast. Time now for Washington Wednesday. Joining us is political scientist and World opinions contributor Hunter Baker. Hunter, good morning.

[Hunter Baker]

Good morning, Hunter.

[Lindsay Mast]

Last week the question was whether a government shutdown happens. Now it's what happens next. And both sides, of course, have their talking points. Here's Majority Leader John thune right here.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Mr. President, it's in front of us right here.

[Hunter Baker]

We can pass this today. Pass it right now. All we have to do, get support from the Democrats. House has passed it. This is the House passed bill. We take it up in the Senate, pass it, send it to the president. President signs it into law, and the government stays funded.

[Lindsay Mast]

And Minority Leader Chuck Schumer had this to say.

[Hunter Baker]

All they want to do is force.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Us, try to bully us.

[Hunter Baker]

They're not gonna succeed into taking their partisan bill. Take it or leave it. That is not how this place works. And that's why we're headed into a shutdown, because Republicans refuse to negotiate a bipartisan bill.

[Lindsay Mast]

Both sides aim to make the other side feel the burn of a shutdown. Who do you think comes out more scorched?

[Hunter Baker]

I think that they have sort of a different calculus on each side. Chuck Schumer. The last time we faced a potential shutdown, he went ahead and cooperated with the president to avoid it. And he was burned. Tremendous explosions on the left making him look vulnerable. Some people think that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wants his Senate seat. And so suddenly he was the old guy who's not far enough to the left, not fighting hard enough against Donald Trump. Chuck Schumer is nothing if not a survivor. And he knows he is not going to do that again. So he is geared up to fight this time. And so the Democrats are saying that we're going to allow a shutdown because what we want is to make sure that the COVID era subsidies for Obamacare continue. So the line is, we are protecting your health care. The Republicans, on the other hand, they have sort of their open agenda and their secret agenda or semi secret agenda. The open agenda is to say that we're not going to fund health care for illegal immigrants. But on the side, they're looking at Russ Vogt, the OMB director. And Vogt has been thinking about this and planning on this for a long time. And he thinks that he can make significant cuts in the federal bureaucracy. In the case of a shutdown. I think that Chuck Schumer knew that the first time around and he didn't want to give Russ Vote that kind of leeway. But this time we are going to have a shutdown and we're going to see what Russ Vote is going to do.

[Nick Eicher]

Yeah, that's interesting, Hunter, and I was going to bring that up with you. It seemed as though President Trump was listening to you last week talking about Russ Vote and the kind of pain that he could impose on the Democrats. Let's listen to what he said yesterday afternoon in the White House.

[Hunter Baker]

We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them and irreversible by them, like cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that they like, cutting programs that they like. And you know, all, you all know Russell Vote, he's become very popular recently because he can trim the budget to a level that you couldn't do any other way. So they're taking a risk by having a shutdown.

[Nick Eicher]

So what do you think Russ Vogt actually can do as head of omb and do you think it'll work?

[Hunter Baker]

Yeah, I think that when Congress passes a law, they don't pass a law saying how many people have to be hired to carry out a task. They say what they want done. They don't say everything about how it's gonna be done, about the resources that will be used to do it. And that's where the executive has the ability to make some choices. And I think that Russ Vogt is going to be able to say we have a fiscal situation that has to be managed. And I think I can manage it by getting rid of some non essential resources within the government, including employees. And so again, this is not something that's coming out of left field. This is the kind of thing that he has been thinking about for years and years and certainly during that interim kind of Biden administration. And now he's back in the seat and he is ready to act.

[Nick Eicher]

All right. Well, speaking of men of action, yesterday Secretary of War Pete Hegseth was addressing his top generals at the Quantico Marine Base near Washington. Let's listen in.

[Hunter Baker]

The topic today is about the nature of ourselves because no plan, no program, no reform, no formation will ultimately succeed unless we have the right people and the right culture at the War Department.

[Nick Eicher]

So he talked about culture and concerns around WOKE hiring and promotions, climate change, things like that that characterized the previous administration. The kind of things that Hegseth says undermine lethality, the military's ability to you know, to do its grim task whenever called upon. Now, there was some expectation in the run up to this big meeting that the secretary would be providing concrete detail on Bud or would be setting some policies in place, and some are scoffing at what he did do instead. What did you think?

[Hunter Baker]

I'll be honest, I'm puzzled by this maneuver. First of all, I mean, maybe the timing is bad. You're on the edge of a shutdown, and you're going to go to the expense of bringing every general around the globe to the Capitol for this kind of a presentation. And then when you do that, you build up all this suspense about what's going to be said. It's not necessarily the sort of drama that you expect. I mean, you have Pete Hegseth talking about why he's going to be a Secretary of war and about the need for physical fitness and not having beards and not being woke. I mean, and all these are sort of substantive things that are important to talk about. And Donald Trump addressed the generals, and a lot of the rhetoric is sort of his normal kind of campaign rhetoric. So on the one hand, I am kind of puzzled that they would choose to bring them all together to do that. But on the other hand, maybe they are just really intent on sending the message that the woke thing in the military is over and that they have serious determination to end it. And so knowing that Trump does things for a reason, that's my guess, is that they are not just trying to rhetorically send a message to the generals, but rather that they are saying, it is time for culture to change and we will put the people in place to change the culture.

[Lindsay Mast]

I think we might file this next one under Too little, too late. The news of New York Mayor Eric Adams ending his bid for reelection in June. He'd lost the Democratic primary to socialist Zoran Mamdani, and not only Adams, but the former Governor Andrew Cuomo decided to mount independent campaigns. At this point, Mamdani seems like a lock. He painted this as a fight that goes back to Trump, with him as the one who will do the fighting. Here he is on cnn.

[Hunter Baker]

Whether we're speaking about Adams or we're speaking about Cuomo, we're speaking about supposed leaders who are willing to put their own personal ambition before the needs of the people they're supposed to serve. New Yorkers are right now under attack from an authoritarian administration. In Washington, Donald Trump has ushered through legislation that will throw them off their health care, take snap outfits away from them all in service of the largest wealth transfer this country has seen. And instead of fighting back against that vision, instead of fighting for New Yorkers, these politicians are looking to get on the phone with Donald Trump.

[Lindsay Mast]

So is Mamdani a Locke or is there a path in which he doesn't wind up as mayor? Is he right also about how these old school Democrats lost this?

[Hunter Baker]

His chances are pretty good. So even with Adams leaving, his name will still be on the ballot. So if there are die hard Adams voters, they'll probably still vote for him. You also have Sleva, who is the famed guardians of the subways. Yeah, the Guardian Angels. Guardian angels, exactly. As the Republican candidate. And I don't think he's going anywhere. You probably would have needed to have been left with mom, Donnie and Cuomo for Cuomo to really have a chance to win. So I think the chances are good that he's going to win. But honestly, I think that his time as mayor, assuming he has it, is sort of doomed to fail. And the reason I say that is, is that the mayor does not necessarily have the power to do a lot of the things that he wants to do. Some of those powers reside in the New York legislature and governor rather than in the mayor. But the other thing is these sort of very left wing governments have not worked out well in New York City. We may recall that the reason New Yorkers elected Rudy Giuliani in the early 90s was because things were bad and had been bad for quite a while with these very left wing mayors. And so it took a Giuliani two terms and then being followed by Mike Bloomberg, who in many ways did the same things that Giuliani had done to really restore order to the city and to help it prosper. So I'm kind of in the camp that George Will is in thinking that it will be good for people to have this kind of socialist mayor, to have a bad experience and to sort of want to get that taste out of their mouth.

[Nick Eicher]

All right, Hunter. Well, there's a big piece in the Wall Street Journal on pastor and author Douglas Wilson. He recently planted a church just down the street from the Capitol. It's a CREC church, his denomination, the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches. And in the Journal piece, Pastor Wilson said that he summarizes Christian nationalism as quoting here we, we should stop making God angry. And that seems like good advice at all times. But he also says the US Was a Christian nation at its founding, but now we find ourselves as a backslidden Christian republic. Now, Hunter, you've written about this in your recent book titled Post liberal Protestants. And I think it's timely in a year where we're looking ahead to the country's 250th birthday. Our quarter mill, as you like to say. What's your assessment?

[Hunter Baker]

So, first of all, I just want to say that I think that Doug Wilson is an incredibly interesting figure in American Christianity. He has written probably millions of words in various books and blog posts and things of that nature. I know him a little bit. I have been out to Moscow, Idaho, and have given a talk before, and I have seen the interesting impact that he and his projects have had on that city. And now he is becoming still more prominent. We were just talking about Pete Hegseth. Pete Hegseth is tied to Wilson's denomination. So you see that kind of spreading influence. I would disagree with his characterization of Christian nationalism as not making God angry. You know, in my view, as a sort of a church state expert, I think that Christian nationalism refers to, or return to the established churches of centuries past, where basically the church and the government are kind of united as entities. Nevertheless, I think that we are, in a moment, I think that there are significant numbers of people who are interested in kind of an amped up, more ambitious, kind of a public Christianity. And he, to some extent, is the face of that.

[Lindsay Mast]

You know, we hear the term Christian nationalism all the time, and usually in a pejorative way. You're a political scientist, so how should it be defined properly?

[Hunter Baker]

Yeah. So Stephen Wolf a few years ago wrote this book, the Case for Christian Nationalism. Political scientist, got his PhD at LSU, and now Cannon Press published that book, the Case for Christian Nationalism. But Stephen is calling for a return to the time when church and state were unified sort of the same way as Luther's Germany or Calvin's Geneva, you know, those. Those sorts of things. And so I think that it's a mistake to sort of say, well, Christian nationalism is just sort of wanting to have Christian values in our society. I think. I think it entails something much bigger than that. Now, as a Baptist, I think that's a mistake. And part of the reason that I think that is, is that if we look at the part of the world that had these establishments, that's really Western Europe, right? And Western Europe is now roughly the most secular place on earth. You know, I think that England is a great example of Christian nationalism, and you end up with a church that, in my view, is sort of neutered and ineffective. Whereas in the US where we have a, you know, pretty serious institutional separation of church and state, the church is far more vital and influential than in those places. So I think that the free church is a better idea.

[Nick Eicher]

Hunter Baker is a political scientist and provost at North Greenville University. Hunter, thank you. Good to see you again.

[Hunter Baker]

Thank you.

[Kent Covington]

Additional support comes from Watersedge offering church building loans that are ministry backed, ministry built and ministry bound. Watersedge.com loans from Asbury University where students are known, supported and prepared to lead customized visits. Available Asbury. Edu Visit and from Barnabas aid providing hope and support for our suffering brothers and sisters around the world. Aid from Christians through Christians to Christians. [e-mail] Coming up next on THE WORLD.

[Lindsay Mast]

And everything in it. A world Tour Special report on Moldova On Sunday, half the voters in the small Eastern European country voted to remain in alignment with Europe instead of shifting back to Russian influence. World's global desk chief Ginny Lind Schmidt has our report.

[Hunter Baker]

I do believe that we managed to resist this huge interference by Russia and.

[Orisia Lucevich]

I'm actually very proud of the Moldova.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

That's Moldovan President Maya Sandu. At a news conference Monday morning, she's referring to Russian interference before Moldova's high stakes parliamentary election on Sunday. For weeks, Sandu and other leaders have called out Russian meddling. In the days before the election, authorities arrested more than 70 people. They were allegedly linked with Russian intelligence inside Moldova, planning riots and other destabilization activities. On Friday, Moldova's electoral commission banned two pro Russian political parties from participating on allegations of foreign funding and bribing voters. Orisia Lucevich is with the British think tank Chatham House.

[Hunter Baker]

What was happening is that there was a myriad of parties that were using funding from Russia to buy votes. There were networks that were set up by one of the fugitive oligarchs, sure.

[Orisia Lucevich]

Where they would transfer people money for.

[Hunter Baker]

The votes they tell them to cast in the Russian banks.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

Even so, Sandu's Pro Europe Solidarity and Action Party won cleanly with 50.1% of the vote. Observers inside and outside the country are hailing it as a huge victory, not just for Moldova, but for all of Europe. But that doesn't mean Russia has given.

[Orisia Lucevich]

Up, as it is well known that Russia has a very aggressive agenda to.

[Hunter Baker]

Get control of former Soviet republics and.

[Orisia Lucevich]

To re establish its imperial control.

[Hunter Baker]

That's why there's this war in Ukraine.

[Orisia Lucevich]

That's why Belarus is losing its sovereignty. And that is why Moldova was also under extreme risk.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

Moldova is sandwiched in between Romania and Ukraine. Under Maya Sandu's government, the small country has been moving steadily toward EU membership. Russia sees that as A threat. And Putin wants Moldova back under his control. Ivana Stradner is with the foundation for Defense of Democracies.

[Orisia Lucevich]

We love to talk about elections in Moldova, only around the elections, but actually Russia's influence operations. They are 24 hours, 365 days trying to weaponize any issue, whether it's when.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, Moldova condemned Russia and opened its doors to refugees. Russia responded by threatening the country's gas supply. In January of this year, it cut off gas to the disputed Moldovan region of Transnistria. Analysts say it was a calculated move to foment pro Russian sentiment in the region.

[Orisia Lucevich]

Russia's center of gravity is energy, and that's how they have been blackmailing Moldova for, for a very long time.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

Stradner says if other countries don't understand and anticipate Russia's philosophy of warfare, they are doomed to fail. It's not just about fake social media accounts spreading false information. It's a complex hybrid war on many fronts, including energy weaponization, using the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church and trying to reignite old geopolitical conflicts.

[Orisia Lucevich]

It is also, for example, what's happening right now with drone incursion. People forget that this is also Russian psychological warfare to make sure to scare people in the West. So we do not support Ukraine.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

But Stradner says the warfare goes far beyond Ukraine.

[Orisia Lucevich]

This war is truly about democracy versus autocracy. And that's precisely why paying attention to Moldova was extremely important for the past few months.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

She says going forward, the west should offer forensic assistance to countries like Moldova to uncover Russia's illicit financing trails. President Sandu encourages other countries to join forces in the fight against Russia's hybrid schemes. She says authorities should do more than uncover illegal financing networks. They also need to make sure the public knows about them.

[Orisia Lucevich]

It's very useful when the three media.

[Hunter Baker]

Also works on that, because then the citizens could see, you know, not just what the state is saying about that, but what the free media is saying about that, because Russia is really trying.

[Orisia Lucevich]

To target the trust. Russia is trying to make people not.

[Hunter Baker]

To trust the state institutions to accuse us of lying and saying that we're just inventing this.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

And Nudcevic says that ultimately economic development can help protect Moldova.

[Hunter Baker]

There are now nearly 2 billion that.

[Orisia Lucevich]

Will be invested in Moldova by European.

[Hunter Baker]

Union for economic growth, making sure that they grow productivity and can export and increase prosperity, because that prosperity also undermines Russian effort and strengthen our democracies everywhere.

[Ginny Lind Schmidt]

For this week's world tour, I'm Jenny Lindschmidt.

[Lindsay Mast]

Today is Wednesday, October 1st. Thank you for turning to World Radio to help help start your day. Good morning, I'm Lindsay Mast.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Icker. Coming next on the world and everything in it, how to become a better communicator.

[Jefferson Fisher]

How to talk to someone who doesn't like you. How to stay calm in a heated conversation. How to handle bad apologies. How to stop saying like so much.

[Nick Eicher]

Now, these are just a few of the questions that Jefferson Fisher tackles in his short form. Videos on social media.

[Jefferson Fisher]

So try that. So try that. So try that. Follow me, follow me, follow me.

[Nick Eicher]

He's become something of a communications guru and he's grown quite the following. 6 million on Instagram, 3 million on Facebook, a million on TikTok. And earlier this year he published a book. It's a New York Times bestseller and it's titled the Next Conversation. Argue less, talk more.

[Lindsay Mast]

But Fisher's day job is as a small town attorney. He never meant to be a national social media influencer. We recently talked with him about his story, how he teaches others, and why he thinks winning an argument often loses something more important. Here's that conversation.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, Jefferson, I happen to know the story of the products Flickr and Slack, if you're familiar with that particular business tool. Both of these began as attempts to build video games. Interestingly enough, now, the games ended up going nowhere. But the tools that the developers built to collaborate on the game projects are what took off. And I thought of that when I saw your videos on Instagram. Initially, they were meant to promote your law firm, but then those videos had taken on a life of their own. At what point did you realize that the promotion had become the product?

[Jefferson Fisher]

The part where the purpose changed was what God had in store was something very different. I want to help people. Okay, well, if that's what you really want to do, you want to help people, then what does that mean to you? And I could help so many more people talking about communication than I could have, hey, have you been in an accident? Or you have this legal question and let me help you with this legal need, because my thought was, how could I help people communicate at home, at the dinner table, in their own meetings and lives and stresses? And so that's where, yes, the purpose you set out for was not the journey that you ended up taking.

[Lindsay Mast]

Jefferson, I gotta tell you, since reading the book, there are times I wish I had it under my arm as a handbook so I can say, oh, wait, hang on, I gotta look this up. Did you have a thought to that end of I'm writing a book about communication and relationship theory. Or was it more about being a toolkit?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, definitely a toolkit. I am probably am a little bit averse to a lot of the communication theory. You can look on plenty of blogs how to handle a difficult conversation. Well, you know what you're going to get? You're going to get. You need to speak with empathy. You need to be an active listener. And you're like, okay, that sounds great, but what does that mean? I think that's one of the things that set a lot of my stuff apart when it comes to communications, that what I teach is very practical. You don't have to think on it. You really. All you have to is what I say at the end. Just try it.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, you know, the Bible is filled with wisdom on how we're supposed to speak. And I was struck in reading your book about the part where you say your parents prayed every night for you, that God would give you wisdom. Would you talk a little bit about how that formation from your early years shapes you today?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, every night my dad would pray, get Jefferson wisdom, and always be his friend. And it was something that just got instilled in me of what to seek. And there's plenty of verses about seeking wisdom. There are so many different aspects in the Bible that relate to asking for wisdom and also the power of the tongue. And so there is so much that's in there of these principles. And it is my prayer that what I teach aligns with those for people in a very practical way.

[Lindsay Mast]

I'm curious about some of those principles. You say winning an argument is a losing game. How do you live that out yourself when, say, you're paid to win, or maybe you even just feel the urge to go for it and get a win?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, yeah. I teach that when you set out to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship. I also teach that when you set out to win an argument, what you've typically won is to be the first to apologize. That's typically what it is. That means you're the one up to now have to be the first one to say I'm sorry. So you won the argument. Congrats, you've won. Awkward silence. Now when you pass each other around the kitchen table because you know there's been some repair that has to be made because of the words that we chose to use. And yeah, in my world, I get hired to. They would say win arguments, but that's not really how it works. I don't get to choose my client's facts. And I can't change the law that applies to the case. You don't necessarily win the argument. It's just whose side has a better legal principle to stand on. And that's why we have appellate courts and supreme courts and everything else. And so it's not who's necessarily the most persuasive. And it definitely doesn't matter who wins.

[Nick Eicher]

So I'm curious, how do you guide people who find themselves in a situation with an abusive person, someone that they simply cannot trust or should not trust? Now, I know you don't want to recommend connecting with people like that, but how do you draw those lines?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Right? There's some people you have no need to connect with. The mindset there is to first protect yourself and the way you use your words to form boundaries and stick to the boundaries. If you continually pour out of your cup, giving more and more of yourself to this person, you're going to eventually look at your own cup and. And see that you're empty. And why is that? Because I'm not connecting myself that something greater than myself. And it's knowing that, yeah, there are times when you're going to be talking to somebody and it's more of a negative force of being able to control yourself rather than trying to control them.

[Lindsay Mast]

Well, let me ask you this. Do you ever see that it's a cop out to set a boundary? Is it possible for someone to have too many boundaries or to be too rigid with them out of a voice avoidance rather than out of true danger?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Absolutely. Yeah, they're definitely people who use boundaries as an excuse to own their problems, to own their behavior. People who say, well, that's. Sorry that that's my boundary. You're stepping over my boundary. And you're like, I'm just. I'm asking for an apology here. If a boundary is meant to protect. Right. There's nothing that you're gonna have to do. It's all gonna be only what I need to do. In other words, if I know that I value my family, I'm gonna put up a boundary that I'm not gonna go to that networking event at 6pm I need to be at the house putting my kids to bed because that I value that. Nobody else has to do anything.

[Kent Covington]

It's just me.

[Nick Eicher]

That's Jefferson Fisher. The book is the Next Conversation. Hey, I enjoyed that book. It's good to meet you.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, y' all as well. Thank you so much. I'm honored and honored by your listeners as well.

[Nick Eicher]

Today. Is Wednesday, October 1st. Good morning. This is the World and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Nick Iger.

[Lindsay Mast]

And I'm Lindsay Mast. Here's world commentator Janie B. Cheney on how a decline in marriage leads to a chaotic society.

[Orisia Lucevich]

I once enjoyed the privilege of visiting Greece, where I felt the weight of antiquity even in the subways, especially at Mycenae on the rolling plains of the southern coast. From here the Greeks sailed to Troy to wage their legendary war. According to Homer, the expedition was almost doomed from the start when King Agamemnon sacrificed his daughter Iphigenia to the gods to obtain fair sailing weather. His wife Clytemnestra never forgave him. Ten years later, when the king returned, she and her lover murdered him. Her son, King Orestes felt duty bound to execute her for the sin of adultery as well as murder, thus activating the furies, ancient earth goddesses whose chief function was avenging blood. As dramatized by the Athenian playwright Aeschylus around 500 B.C. the story becomes a courtroom drama, posing this which has greater weight, a blood relationship or a civil contract? Is the murder of the husband, not a blood relative, less a crime than matricide? The court decides that Orestes was justified, and this, according to Charles Hill in his book Grand Strategies, is literary notice of a milestone in human progress, the determination that marriage, not blood, is the foundation of a civil society. God settled that question in Genesis 2:14, and every civilized culture has followed suit. It's only in primitive societies that kinship takes precedence, leading to feuds and vendettas. Early in this century, social observers like Charles Murray and Brad Wilcox began noticing a sharp decline in marriage among the poor. Klan was replacing Covenant. Bloodkin had a greater claim to loyalty than the latest live in boyfriend. The results were reduced earning power, greater stress and troubled adolescence as the cycle continued. So a recent NBC survey of 3,018 to 29 year olds isn't encouraging. It asked them to prioritize a set of 13 life goals. Respondents diverged into four groups according to sex and political affiliation. Of those, only male Trump voters rated getting married as high as number four. Female Republicans saw it as less important than financial independence and a fulfilling career. Democrats of both sexes put marriage and children almost dead last. Priorities do change among the young, so these disturbing results aren't necessarily the last word. But it's noteworthy that both groups of Republican Gen Xers placed children before marriage rather than the other way around. Are they subconsciously valuing blood over bond? Years ago, my daughter worked for the late Andy Williams in Branson. Part of her job was to lip sync on stage while Andy sang a medley of his greatest hits. And at every performance, when he segued into the Hawaiian wedding song, she could look out into the audience and see gray haired couples cuddling up in the darkness. Those marriages were not perfect, but they were covenantal. They were the backbone of middle America whose great grandchildren were surveyed by NBC. Are they the last of their breed? We walk around with no thought for the ground under our feet. But if the earth turned to Jell O, we'd notice. Tribalism and blood feuds may not be in our future, but social chaos looms. The reformation of America begins. At home, I'm Janie Buchaney.

[Nick Eicher]

Tomorrow, the search for clues behind the rise in autism. And one of our reporters goes for a ride in a driverless taxi. How'd that go? That and more tomorrow. I'm Nick Icar.

[Lindsay Mast]

And I'm Lindsay Mast. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The psalmist writes with joy. You will draw water from the wells of salvation, and you will say, in that day, give thanks to the word. Call upon his name. Make known his deeds among the peoples. Proclaim that his name is exalted. Verses 3 and 4 of Psalm 85. Go now in grace and peace.