11.29.24 Culture Friday, the making of The Best Christmas Pageant Ever, and children’s Advent music

Summary

Podcast Summary: The World and Everything In It Episode: 11.29.24 Culture Friday, the Making of The Best Christmas Pageant Ever, and Children’s Advent Music Release Date: November 29, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of "The World and Everything In It," hosted by Myrna Brown and Nick Eicher, listeners are treated to a comprehensive blend of current events, cultural discussions, and inspirational content. The episode features insightful news analysis, a deep dive into the reversal of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) policies by major corporations, an exclusive interview with filmmaker Dallas Jenkins about his adaptation of "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever," and a segment dedicated to children’s Advent music.

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News Highlights

Russia's Aerial Attack on Ukraine

At [01:01], Kent Covington reports on Russia's significant aerial assault targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure. Vladimir Putin announced at a meeting in Kazakhstan that Russia executed a comprehensive strike using 90 missiles and 100 drones, impacting 17 targets and leaving over a million Ukrainian households without power. Putin justified the attack as retaliation against Ukrainian strikes using American-made long-range missiles, asserting that only military targets were intended. This attack marks Russia's second major offensive against Ukraine's power grid in less than two weeks.

Israeli Airstrike in Lebanon

Continuing at [01:49], Mary Muncie covers the Israeli military's airstrike in southern Lebanon, which occurred a day after a ceasefire officially took effect. The Israeli forces targeted a rocket storage facility following intelligence about Hezbollah activity, resulting in two wounded individuals. The ceasefire terms require Hezbollah militants to withdraw north of the Litany River and Israeli forces to return to their respective sides of the border.

Boise State Volleyball Team Boycott

At [02:24], Kent Covington discusses a controversy in collegiate sports where Boise State University's women's volleyball team withdrew from the Mountain West tournament. The boycott stemmed from their opposition to playing against San Jose State, which included a male player identifying as a woman. This decision led to San Jose State receiving six forfeit victories due to similar boycotts from other Mountain West opponents. Republican Senator Joni Ernst expressed support for this stance, indicating readiness to establish the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) under President-elect Donald Trump’s administration.

Senator Joni Ernst and DOGE

At [03:10], the conversation shifts to Senator Joni Ernst's initiative to form the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), aiming to scrutinize federal spending and improve taxpayer benefits. Ernst has proposed cutting various government expenses, urging business leaders like Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to lead this effort. She emphasizes evaluating the federal government's role versus that of the private sector in providing services.

Black Friday Shopping Season

Transitioning to the consumer sector at [03:50], the hosts highlight the bustling Black Friday shopping season. Analysts predict a 3% increase in consumer spending for November and December compared to the previous year. Holly Quadaro from the Galleria Mall in Dallas shares strategies retailers are employing to attract shoppers, such as gift-wrapping services and online pickup options designed to enhance the in-store experience.

TSA Food Regulations

At [04:30], the hosts provide a helpful update on the TSA’s policies regarding bringing food on flights. Lori Dankers, a TSA spokeswoman, clarifies that solid foods like meats, cheeses, breads, and cookies are allowed in unlimited quantities. However, items classified as liquids, aerosols, or gels must comply with the 3.4-ounce container rule. Travelers are encouraged to review these guidelines on the TSA app and website to ensure a smooth security process.

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Culture Friday Discussion

DEI Policies Reversal at Walmart

During the Culture Friday segment at [11:43], John Stonestreet discusses the recent decision by Walmart, the nation's largest retailer, to reverse its DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives. Myrna Brown notes that Walmart will no longer consider race and gender as criteria for supplier contracts and will withdraw from the Human Rights Campaign Index. Additionally, Walmart plans to discontinue products aimed at marginalized groups, such as chest binders for miners.

Dallas Jenkins offers insight at [12:28], explaining that corporate pushback against DEI efforts is part of a broader trend where groups within organizations influence leadership and shareholders to return to more neutral policies. He highlights the role of individuals like Robby Starbuck in advocating for this shift without resorting to shaming tactics, contrasting it with the previous DEI approaches that often involved public criticism.

Study on DEI Programs

At [14:57], Nick Eicher references a study from the Network Contagion Research Institute, which found that many DEI workplace programs inadvertently increased racial suspicion and did not enhance empathy or warmth among different ethnic groups. Dallas Jenkins expands on this at [15:23], arguing that anti-racist training often backfires by making individuals feel guilty based on inherent traits rather than actions. He asserts that focusing excessively on race can entrench racial divisions rather than alleviate them, emphasizing the need for balanced and sincere approaches to reconciliation.

Trump’s Appointments in Health Agencies

Earlier in the Culture Friday segment, at [08:34], John Stonestreet touches upon President Elect Donald Trump's appointments that suggest an admission of previous missteps. He points out that during Trump's first term, his health advisors, including Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins, worked to discredit COVID-19 critics like Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and Dr. Marty Makary. However, Trump subsequently appointed these critics to prominent positions at the NIH and FDA, respectively, indicating a shift in acknowledging the value of diverse viewpoints within the health sector.

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Featured Interview: Dallas Jenkins on "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever"

Dallas's Connection to the Book

At [20:36], Dallas Jenkins shares his personal journey with Barbara Robinson’s beloved children’s novel, "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever." He recounts how his wife introduced him to the book over two decades ago, leading to annual family readings that moved him deeply. Jenkins describes the book as initially humorous but ultimately revealing itself as a "Jesus story" at its core, showcasing how the unruly Herdman children bring a fresh perspective to the traditional Nativity narrative.

Notable Quote: "If the Herdmans show up, it might be the first Christmas pageant in history where Joseph and the wise men get in." ([00:29])

Making the Movie

At [22:14], Jenkins discusses his passion for adapting the book into a film. Despite initial challenges in securing the rights, persistent advocacy inspired by the success of his previous work, "The Chosen," eventually led to the opportunity to helm the project. Jenkins emphasizes the movie’s underlying message, likening it to a "Trojan Horse" that subtly weaves the Nativity story into the fabric of a modern Christmas pageant narrative.

Notable Quote: "This movie is the story of the Nativity... telling the story through a different lens, a different perspective." ([23:42])

Themes and Messages

At [25:07], Jenkins elaborates on the thematic connections between his work on "The Chosen" and "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever." He explains that both projects aim to present the story of Jesus in fresh, relatable ways without altering the fundamental truths of the Gospels. The film portrays Mary authentically, with minimalistic and sincere representations that contrast with more theatrical depictions, thereby bringing viewers closer to the essence of the Nativity.

Notable Quote: "Imogene Herdman... brings to the story the truth of it, which is that Mary and Joseph and the stable are not cutesy and sweet... there's something to be said for that simplicity and the quaintness of it." ([25:27])

Jenkins conveys his belief that such honest portrayals can "re-engage and reenergize" audiences' relationships with God, making his adaptation a meaningful addition to Christian storytelling.

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Advent Music Segment

Importance of Advent

At [27:40], the segment on Advent music begins with Bonnie Pritchett emphasizing the significance of teaching children the true meaning of Advent. She highlights the challenges children face with the anticipation of Christmas and suggests that daily reflections can help them focus on the spiritual waiting for Christ's coming.

Selected Hymns and Songs

The segment features performances and explanations of several Advent hymns designed to educate and inspire young listeners:

• "Isaiah 9, 6:7" by Adam Wright ([29:05]): A song that helps children memorize God's word, focusing on the prophetic vision of the Messiah.

  Notable Lyrics: "Wonderful, Prince of Peace." ([29:23])

• "Isaiah 11" by Rained for Roots ([29:49]): This song paraphrases the Prophet Isaiah's message about life under the servant king's rule, continuing the messianic prophecy.

• "Zechariah's Prophecy" by Randall Goodgame ([30:59]): Captures Zechariah’s praise for the birth of his son, John the Baptist, who prepares the way for the Messiah.

  Notable Lyrics: "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel... From Above." ([29:49]-[31:41])

Bonnie Pritchett connects these songs to the broader narrative of Advent, illustrating how they reflect the historical and spiritual journey leading to Christ's arrival.

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Conclusion

The episode seamlessly blends timely news updates with thoughtful cultural commentary and enriching spiritual content. From geopolitical tensions and societal shifts regarding DEI policies to heartfelt discussions on faith-based storytelling and the nurturing of children’s spiritual growth through Advent music, "The World and Everything In It" offers listeners a multifaceted exploration of contemporary issues grounded in Christian values.

Listeners are encouraged to engage with the full interview with Dallas Jenkins and explore the Advent music playlist available on Spotify, designed to complement their spiritual preparations for the Christmas season.

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, providing a structured and detailed overview for those who have not listened to the podcast. Notable quotes and timestamps have been included to highlight key moments and speaker insights.

Transcript

[Myrna Brown]

Good morning. Today on Culture Friday, Covid critics and outsiders are about to become Washington insiders. Will that decrease the distrust? And DEI is looking doa.

[Nick Eicher]

John Stonestreet is here. He's standing by. We'll talk about all that and more. Also today, Dallas Jenkins on bringing the best Christmas pageant ever to the big screen.

[John Stonestreet]

If the Herdmans show up, it might be the first Christmas pageant history where Joseph and the wise men get in.

[Dallas Jenkins]

A fight and Mary lights a stogie.

[John Stonestreet]

And hightails it with the baby.

[Nick Eicher]

And later, songs for Advent.

[Myrna Brown]

It's Friday, November 29th. This is the World and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Myrna Brown.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.

[Myrna Brown]

Up next, Kent Covington with today's news.

[Kent Covington]

Russia has carried out a massive aerial attack against Ukraine's energy infrastructure, leaving more than a million households without power. Vladimir Putin speaking at a meeting in Kazakhstan said, we carried out a comprehensive strike using 90 missiles and 100 drones. 17 targets were hit. Putin said it was in response to Ukrainian strikes in Russia using American made long range missiles. And he claimed the Russian assault only aimed at military targets. But it was Russia's second major aerial attack on Ukraine's power grid in less than two weeks. Meantime, in the Middle east, one day after a ceasefire officially took effect in Lebanon, Israeli forces launched an airstrike saying Hezbollah violated the truce. World's Mary Muncie has more.

[Mary Muncie]

The Israeli military says its warplanes fired on southern Lebanon after detecting Hezbollah activity at a rocket storage facility. The aerial attack after the Israeli military said it fired on people trying to return to particular areas in southern Lebanon in violation of the ceasefire. Lebanon's state controlled news agency said two people were wounded. Under the terms of the agreement, Hezbollah militants must withdraw north of the Litany river and Israeli forces are to return to their side of the border. For world I'm Mary Muncie.

[Kent Covington]

A women's college volleyball team has pulled out of a tournament this week rather than play against a team with a male player. Boise State advanced to the semifinals of the Mountain west women's tournament Wednesday night, but the Broncos announced later that they would not play tomorrow against San Jose State. One of San Jose's players is a man who identifies as a woman. San Jose State received six forfeit victories because of boycotts from Mountain west opponents. University of Nevada players said they refused to participate in any match. That advances injustice against female athletes. Republican Senator Joni Ernst says she's ready to roll up her sleeves and get to work helping the new department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE for short, which will be established when President elect Donald Trump takes office.

[John Stonestreet]

Every dollar that is going through our federal government, what is the benefit to the American taxpayer? Is it something that should be done by the federal government, or is it something that shouldn't and maybe should be picked up by business and industry?

[Kent Covington]

Ernst just penned a letter with suggestions on what expenses to cut and sent that off to business leaders Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, who will lead the effort. She detailed a few of those suggestions earlier this week.

[John Stonestreet]

If you look at the NIH and a lot of the experimentation that is done there, things like finding out how fast shrimp can run on treadmills, all of this we have documented through the years.

[Kent Covington]

The Department of Government Efficiency will be an independent office operating outside of the government. That means it will be reliant on the White House and law to enact its agenda. Senator Ernst has been tapped to lead the DOGE Caucus in the Senate. Today is, of course, Black Friday, the unofficial kickoff of the Christmas shopping season, and brick and mortar retailers are pulling out all the stops to lure shoppers into stores. Holly Quadaro is spokeswoman for the Galleria Mall in Dallas.

[John Stonestreet]

Gift wrapping services buy online pickup in store is another way that customers that maybe they want to look online make sure that it's available and then they can pick it up in the store and come into the mall to get.

[Kent Covington]

In the U.S. analysts envision a solid Christmas shopping season. The National Retail Federation predicted that shoppers would increase their spending in November and December by about 3% over the same period a year ago. If you're flying home after Thanksgiving and thinking about bringing some leftovers with you, the TSA says that's okay. But of course there are some rules. TSA spokeswoman Lori Dankers if your food.

[John Stonestreet]

Is a solid, and examples of that are meats and cheeses, breads, cookies, those types of things, bring them through in unlimited quantities because those are allowed. It's when the food is considered a liquid or an aerosol or a gel that there's a restriction.

[Kent Covington]

And that restriction is 3.4 ounces. Liquids or gels cannot be in containers larger than that. Danker says you can find all of those rules on the TSA app and website. I'm Kent Covington and straight ahead, Culture Friday with John Stonestreet. Plus a conversation about a quirky kids movie and the true meaning of Christmas. This is the world and everything in it.

[Myrna Brown]

It's Friday 29th November 2024. Glad to have you along for today's edition of the World and everything in it. Good morning, I'm Myrna Brown.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Time now for Culture Friday, and joining us is Jon Stonestreet, the president of the Colson center and host of the Break Point podcast. Hey there, John. Good morning.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Good morning.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, I sure hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your family, John. What were you thankful for this year?

[Dallas Jenkins]

Oh, man. You know, you're always supposed to do that going into it, being retroactively thankful. That's a really difficult thing to do, especially in a culture that, you know, immediately goes from giving thanks to trampling security guards for the latest flat screen TVs. Although I'm grateful that Black Friday is not what it used to be. It's just digitally more than it used to be. But what if just an incredible juxtaposition of our culture. Thanksgiving turns you outward and should turn you upward, right where you're actually looking outside of yourself. It's just a way of approaching life in the world that's fundamentally different than get while the getting's good, you know, sort of approach that we've done. Now, of course, gift giving is a good thing. And I once had this conversation with none other than Dennis Prager on stage who just argued that Black Friday was actually a good thing because, you know, people giving gifts is a good thing. And I said, well, this was back in the heyday where we all waited for the videos of the tramplings that would come through, you know, of, you know, Circuit City. Remember that store opening at like 4:00am oh, yeah. And I was just like, I don't think all those guys are, you know, trampling security guards out of the goodness of their heart in order to bless other people. I just, I didn't think that that was the motivation. But there is incredible juxtaposition, you know, this week that we experience culturally.

[Myrna Brown]

I think, you know, John, I like the outward upward focus and getting away from the internal, which is how modern culture turns us. It's Thanksgiving, not thanks feeling. Right. It's a thing we do.

[Dallas Jenkins]

It's a choice. No, but, you know, that's what Christianity does. It turns us away from just our feelings, determining reality and saying, well, what is actually true and what is actually real? It's the same thing with repentance, if you look at it. I know this isn't a Lenten time broadcast, but it is something worth mentioning that these are things that at the end of the day have to precede our choices. You know, we ought not, for example, wait to repent when we feel like it, because we may never feel like it, but you repent so that you'll feel like it. And maybe the same thing is true with thanks. You give thanks not if you feel like it, but because you should feel like it, even if you don't.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, you know, John, it's often been said, and not without evidence, that President Elect Trump tends not to admit it when he's wrong, but instead, he will tend to double down. But here's an instance where I think he's pretty clearly admitting that he was wrong. So go back to his first term. His top two go to guys on Covid were Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins. Collins at the time was head of NIH, that's the National Institutes of Health. Fauci was inside NIH, one of the institutes, and he'd been in government something like or very close to 40 years. Both of those men during COVID specifically worked to discredit two critics, Jay Bhattacharya and Marty Makary. Both of those men, renowned physicians, they were critics of that COVID policy. And guess What? Trump appointed Dr. Bhattacharya, again a target of Collins and Fauci, to take the job that Collins had at the head of NIH. And then Dr. Makary, he's been appointed to FDA. So I think this is a case of not just admitting wrong, but appointing people who said so even when he, he didn't think so.

[Dallas Jenkins]

It is something to behold. And those two really in particular, I mean, at one level, it goes with the trend of the president appointing people to head agencies with whom all of these people have had direct conflict. I mean, a lot of us are ordering popcorn and are going to watch this thing kind of play itself out. But there is just an incredible level of misconception trust when it comes to medicine in America. And it is not because I don't think people mistrust the individual people that are their providers. I think most of us have found doctors or healthcare professionals that we rely on. But on a societal level, on a structural level, Covid did a lot of damage on this, and mainly because we were told to follow the science and found out later that the science wasn't followed. Now, look, trust isn't built by just perpetual skepticism either. In other words, pointing out a lie is not always the same as pointing out the truth. Both of these individuals, I think in these positions, both of whom have incredibly complicated names to pronounce out loud. So I'll leave that to you. But they have really incredible track records and a level of courage of saying the right thing when the right thing needs to be said. And there were many cases where both of these individuals paid a price for that courage. And so I do think when it comes to where America is with healthcare, whether we're talking about food, whether we're talking about Big Pharma, whether we're talking about vaccines, whatever we're talking about, I mean, I think there's a kind of a reckoning, so to speak, that's happening. And these seem to be appointees that are part of that story.

[Myrna Brown]

Well, John, big news this week with the nation's largest retailer changing course and walking back its DEI policies. Of course I'm talking about Walmart announcing, for instance, it will no longer consider race and gender as a litmus test to improve diversity when offering contracts to suppliers. The company will no longer participate in the Human Rights Campaign Index and it's going to pay closer attention to its merchandise, you know, staying away from products aimed at miners like chest binders. Now, many theories, John, as to what's behind this about face, but I'd like to hear why you think they backed off.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Well, look, I think it's one of the under told stories of 2024 and every major corporation was spending an incredible amount of money to align both HR and pr, both internal and external realities around it. And there was a group of people who rose up and said, you know what, we can do something here, we can influence at the leadership and shareholder level, we can bring this back to neutral. And they have been incredibly successful. And of course Robby Starbuck is the front and center figure on this. There's some organizations that have been really working on this and some of them are not always comfortable being identified. So I'm just going to say shout out across the airwaves because what they have done is not try to shame people. One of the things I appreciated about it is that the DEI thing really advanced through shaming people. The DEI reversal was not going through shaming people. The Walmart story, for example, during Pride Month we talked about how a lot of companies got a lot quieter than they were the year before in June. But then there was Walmart. What an exception, right? They started announcing chest binders and some weird things and you're like, walmart, are you kidding? And now what happened was some private work that was done where basically Walmart was called on the carpet and said, you know, here's what you need to do. And they did it. And also A big part of the story is the number of newly minted vice presidents of DEI that aren't having renewed contracts next year. And I don't think we've heard all those stories, but there's a lot of them we have heard because basically it turned DEI into a criteria of success. It also became a standard of qualification for someone to have an executive level job. Neither of those things prove true. And that's because DEI is not legitimate. It's not a legitimate way of thinking about either credibility, qualification or progress. But it was made that way. You look at this lineup, this is Walmart. But of course we're talking tractor, supply, we're talking Harley Davidson and John Deere. You know, read the room, kids. It just was misaligned with reality from the beginning. And it's good to see this stuff really push back. And I think the momentum of Walmart here at the end of 2024 is a significant story heading into 2025.

[Nick Eicher]

You know, and John, along these same lines, there was a new study. It's from an outfit called the Network Contagion Research Institute, a pretty involved study. It found that many DEI programs, workplace trainings, wound up increasing racial suspicion. It found no measurable improvement in empathy or warmth among the ethnic groups. Did you happen to see this?

[Dallas Jenkins]

Yeah. Well, look, at the same time that this story came out was a study showing that these kind of anti racist books and anti racist training programs and the philosophy of anti racism, when applied in some sort of teaching or pressure situation, which obviously a lot of times that was the same thing, teaching and pressure, it actually ended up making things worse, not better. It was purported to be some sort of pathway to reconciliation, some sort of pathway to racial relationships improving. But what ended up happening is it proved to be opposite. And I think it's because of a couple things. Number one is in many cases it, you know, made people guilty by who they are, not how they behaved. And people don't like that. You know, people, we live in a world where God has created us in a way that we try to strive to be better. We try to strive to earn our stripes and to somehow give us moral credit or moral culpability based on no decision that we actually made or no actions that we actually took or didn't take. It just didn't sit well. But, you know, the thing is, I know this is shocking, but apparently if you make everything about race, it tends to make everything about race. And if you say that the fundamental problem with the world in every situation is racial division, then people start seeing the world as being racially divided. It shouldn't maybe surprise us that the more you talk about race, the more you talk about race and the less you move forward. And look, we need to talk about race as Christians. There is a division and there are examples of racism that exist. But this was a theory of everything. This was supposed to be the lens by which everything was supposed to be explained, all injustices, everything else. And it didn't work out that way. And it left people further away, apart, not closer together.

[Myrna Brown]

Well, John Stonestreet is president of the Colson center and host of the Breakpoint Podcast. Thank you, John.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Thank you both.

[Kent Covington]

Additional support comes from Dor University, where students strive to become all that God created them to be and thrive intellectually, socially and spiritually until all is made new. And from Knox Theological Seminary, Reformed flexible integrated programs for a call to ministry. More at Knox Seminary. Edu World.

[Nick Eicher]

Today is Friday, November 29th. Thank you for turning to welcome to World Radio to help start your day. Good morning, I'm Nick Einker.

[Lindsay Mast]

I'm Lindsay Mast.

[Myrna Brown]

And I'm Erna Brown. Coming next on the World and everything in it, the making of a Christmas Classic.

[John Stonestreet]

The Herdmans were absolutely the worst kids in the history of the world. They lied and stole and smoked cigars, even the girls and talked dirty and hit little kids and cussed their teachers and took the name of the Lord in vain and set fire to Fred Shub Maker's old broken down tool house.

[Myrna Brown]

So begins the children's novel the Best Christmas Pageant Ever. It's the story of what happens when those horrible Herdman kids manhandle their way into the town's Christmas. Theatrical hijinks ensue and by the end of the book, well, we all learn some lessons about the true meaning of Christmas in a very honest and heartwarming way.

[Lindsay Mast]

Now this book is laugh out loud funny. Author Barbara Robinson wrote it more than 50 years ago and it won the ALA Notable Children's Book Award. In my family, it's not just a Christmas read aloud tradition. Doesn't matter what time of year my youngest often has the audiobook going. I think she probably has it memorized at this point.

[Nick Eicher]

The Best Christmas Pageant ever is now a movie and it brings the Herdmans to life on the big screen.

[John Stonestreet]

They even set fire to Fred Shoemaker's old broken down tool shed. To be fair, the shed was ugly and was about to fall over anyway. My father said burning it down was the only good thing the Herdmans ever did. And if they'd known it was a good thing, they wouldn't have done it at all. They were just so all around awful, you could hardly believe they were real.

[Nick Eicher]

A couple weeks ago we reviewed the film when it first hit theaters. The movie is directed by Dallas Jenkins. He's known best for his work on the Chosen. And today we have a conversation with Jenkins about why he felt compelled to bring this story to the screen and why he feels this is the movie he was born to make.

[Lindsay Mast]

Dallas Jenkins, welcome to the program.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so, I'm so glad you've, you've read the book and are as excited as I am to get this movie out there.

[Lindsay Mast]

So let's start with your own history with the book. When did you first read it?

[Dallas Jenkins]

The more I've thought about it, I think it's actually closer to 20 years ago. My wife Amanda brought it home from Pottery Barn. She was there shopping and saw it on the counter. I think they were doing a little special for it or something, and she's like, oh, yeah, I remember this book as a kid, and it was a TV movie in the 80s, kind of a short little TV movie. And so we said, oh, let's read it to the kids. And so I was reading it, and pretty quickly a couple things started happening. Number one, it's very, very funny. The story is just brilliantly written by the author, Barbara Robinson, who's unfortunately no longer with us. But so I was already laughing and going, man, this is funny. And then fairly early on, I'm like, this is a Jesus story. And it's a Jesus story. Fairly early on, the Herdmans are the worst kids in the history of the world, but they take over this church's Christmas pageant. And they are, you know, through the course of the story, start asking all these questions because they've never heard the story before. And you ultimately find out that because of their poverty and their outsider status, they're actually closer to the heart of the Nativity story than even we are in our kind of suburban American church environment. And so we learn from them as much as they learn from us. And so as I'm reading the story, I get to the end of it, and in the, in the last chapter, I am weeping like I am. I can't read. And my wife goes, oh, let me read it. And so she starts reading. She can't get through it because she's crying. So we just hand it back to each other. And so the Christmas tradition became to not only read this story to our kids every Year. But for our kids to make fun of us for the fact that we could never get through it without crying.

[Lindsay Mast]

The exact same thing happens at our house pretty much every time. So you read the book, you love it, and then what?

[Dallas Jenkins]

Yeah, after that first time, I said, I have to make this movie. So I was searching for the rights, looking online everywhere. I tracked down this group of guys who have the rights, and they said, oh, yeah, appreciate your passion, but it's already, you know, with a studio and they're developing it as a different kind of movie. And I was like, oh, man. And I had so many different opportunities over the years. The rights would expire at a studio and I would reach out to them again and go, please let me, let me do this movie. And they're like, well, no. Because I was, you know, I hadn't had the success of the Chosen yet, and they wanted to do a big studio project with these big filmmakers. So I would check in every year, you know, praying that the movie wasn't getting made. And finally, just a couple years ago, the mom of one of the rights holders calls him up and says, you've got to watch this show called the Chosen. It is changing my life. It is so good. And he goes, oh, that's funny. The creator has been bugging me for years to try to get the rights to this story. She's like, you better do it with him. You better give him the rights. And so the mom, the, you know, I think she was in her 70s at the time, you know, he made him go watch the show and he ultimately decided to, when the rights expired, with the studio, to let me do it. And so we set it up with another studio and I got to be the filmmaker.

[Lindsay Mast]

So what about this story made you so passionate about getting it off the page and onto the big screen?

[Dallas Jenkins]

This movie, I sometimes call it a Trojan Horse. On the surface, it's a best selling book that's been read in public schools all over the country. It's performed as a play all over the world. But beneath the surface, and in fact, not in a subtle way, it is the story of the Nativity. It is the story of how the power of Jesus and the power of church can actually truly change a kid's life, even a broken group of kids, and how they can also kind of teach us something about the story of God and the story of Nativity. So I'm just really, really excited about this story getting to the world.

[Lindsay Mast]

Now, you said that this is the movie you were born to make. Why do you Feel that way.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Yeah. I mean, the thing about the Best Christmas Pageant Ever is when people see it, they'll think, oh, wow, this is so different from the Chosen. Again, on the surface, the style, the tone, the time period. Of course, it's very different from the first century and the way that we shoot the Chosen, but the theme is actually similar, and that is telling the story of Jesus that we've heard a million times, but through a different lens. Not changing it, not changing the intention of it, not changing the character of Jesus in the Gospels, but telling it through a different lens, a different perspective. And just like people have said that they've experienced with the Chosen. And just like people say in the movie the Best Christmas Pageant Ever, it sometimes brings a story to life in a fresh way that they hadn't considered before and re. Engages and reenergizes their relationship with God. And that's what I think this movie can do that's similar to the Chosen.

[Lindsay Mast]

Well, we've come a long way from the Christmas pageants that you read about in this book or in the Ramona Quimby books with preschool angel choirs or shepherds dressed in their dad's bathrobes and such. I'd argue your own work has brought the production level of Christian storytelling up by a few notches. But is there still a place for more quaint tellings of Jesus story?

[Dallas Jenkins]

Absolutely. I think there's something charming about the quaintness of it because that's actually the story itself. And you see that in this movie. There's a moment I don't want to give too much away. Although the title calls it the Best Christmas Pageant Ever, so, you know, things do work out. But Imogene Herdman, who's the meanest and the baddest of the Herdman kids, is portraying the part of Mary. And the tradition in that church Christmas pageant is for Mary to be dressed in white and to practically have a halo around her head, to be this sweet, you know, pretty little thing that's presented as almost perfect. Right? And. And like a lot of nativities that we see. And Imogene brings from home the tablecloth and she wraps it around herself, and she even says to one of the girls, if I'm going to play Mary, I'm going to look like the real Mary. And she brings to it the quaintness and the, you know, maybe poverty is too strong a word, but. But. But I think it's accurate. She brings to the story the truth of it, which is that Mary and Joseph and the stable and the animals and all that stuff are not we're not cutesy and, and, and sweet and it wasn't also big and epic like we sometimes portray. So I think there is something to be said for that simplicity and the quaintness of it. And I think that when we can see the heart of Jesus through quaintness and we don't need spectacle, I think that's actually closer to the heart of the story.

[Lindsay Mast]

Dallas Jenkins, thank you so much for giving us your time today.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Oh, thanks so much for having me. Those were really wonderful questions and a great conversation. So thank you.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, there's a lot more to Lindsey's conversation with Dallas Jenkins. We thought this would be a terrific weekend to post that as families are out and about perhaps looking for something to listen to when you're ready for a break from the Christmas music. So keep an ear out for that.

[Myrna Brown]

Today is Friday, November 29th. Good morning. This is the world and everything in it from Listener supported World Radio on I'm Ernabra.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. This Sunday marks the first week of Advent. Over the next four Sundays, Christians around the world will prepare for and reflect on the coming of Christ at the close of each Friday program from now till Christmas. World correspondent Bonnie Pritchett will guide us through a selection of Advent hymns.

[Myrna Brown]

And just a quick note, we're creating a Spotify playlist again this year. We'll keep it updated throughout the month so you can find the music for your own enjoyment. We've included the link to that in Today's [e-mail] podcasts this Sunday is the.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

First of four Advent Sundays, but kids probably have been anticipating the arrival of Christmas Day since, oh, say, October, when store displays went up and commercials began airing. For kids, the can't wait for Christmas Day. Impatience can be overwhelming.

[Nick Eicher]

For two hours a child is born.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Taking time each day until Christmas to teach the meaning of Advent can perhaps redirect a child's focus and help them to understand what, or rather who we're all waiting for.

[Nick Eicher]

And his name shall be called Wonderful.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Musician Adam Wright performs and composes under the name the Corner Room. His songs help children to learn and memorize God's word. This song, simply called Isaiah 9, 6:7, is from Wright's 2020 album Remember and Scripture Songs for Little Ones.

[Nick Eicher]

Prince of Peace.

[Myrna Brown]

Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end on the throne of David, and over his kingdom to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will do this.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Isaiah's messianic prophecy continues into chapter 11, and that's where the band Rained for Roots picks up the story in their 2015 album Waiting Songs. The song, titled Isaiah 11, paraphrases the Prophet's message about life under the rule of the servant king.

[Dallas Jenkins]

Believe.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Fast forward about 700 years. Faithfully awaiting the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy was an old priest named Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth. An angel of God told Zechariah that Elizabeth would have a baby boy who would grow up to prepare the way for the coming Messiah. The old priest praised God at the birth of his son.

[Nick Eicher]

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel.

[Dallas Jenkins]

For he has visited and redeemed his.

[Nick Eicher]

People and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant.

[Myrna Brown]

David.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Randall Goodgame, creator of Slugs and Bugs Bible Memorization Songs, captures a portion of Zechariah's praise in the song Zechariah's prophecy on the 2020 album Sing the Bible Family Christmas.

[Nick Eicher]

From Above.

[Bonnie Pritchett]

Zechariah blessed God for the birth of his son John, who did grow up to herald the arrival of the long awaited Messiah. Now, if the kids still think waiting for Christmas Day takes forever, inform them that Zechariah and all faithful Jews have been waiting for the Messiah roughly 255,500 days. Tell the kids they can probably wait just 24 for world I'm Bonnie Pritchett.

[Nick Eicher]

Time now to say thank you to the team members who helped to put the program together this week. Jenny Rock, David Bonson, Emma Perley, Mary Reichert, Travis Kercher, Becca McCallum, Leo Braceno, Onizai, Adua, Janie B. Cheney, Mary Muncie, Carolina Lumeta, Bob Case, Cal Thomas, John Stonestreet, Lindsey Mast and Bonnie Pritchett. Thanks also to our breaking news team, Kent Covington, Mark Mellinger, Lindy Langdon, Lauren Canterbury, Christina Gr and Josh Schumacher. And a new voice on the program this week, World Opinions contributor Steve Waters. Thanks also to the guys who stay up late to get the program to you early, Jonny Franklin and Carl Peets.

[Myrna Brown]

Our producers are Paul Butler, Kristin Flavin and Harrison Waters, with assistance from Lauren Dunn and Ben Jahnker. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The Psalmist writes, Consider how I love your precepts. Give me life according to your steadfast love. The psalm of your word is truth and every one of your righteous rules endures forever. Verses 159 and 160 of Psalm. Be sure and worship with your brothers and sisters in Christ in church on the Lord's day. And Lord willing, we'll meet you right back here on Monday. Go now in grace and peace.