12.2.25 Russia-Ukraine peace plan, ECFA’s new policy, and phasing out the penny

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The World and Everything In It"

Episode: 12.2.25 Russia-Ukraine Peace Plan, ECFA’s New Policy, and Phasing Out the Penny
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: WORLD Radio (Mary Reichard & Nick Eicher)

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Overview of the Episode

This episode tackles three major themes:

• The ongoing and evolving peace talks between the US, Ukraine, and Russia over the war in Ukraine.
• The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability's (ECFA) new policy regarding leader care, which has created controversy within major Christian organizations.
• The end of the penny in US currency, including its historical impact and practical consequences.

The episode weaves incisive field reporting, expert interviews, and cultural and biblical analysis in its typical balanced and thoughtful WORLD Radio style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Russia-Ukraine Peace Plan: The Delicate Diplomacy

(Primary Segment: 08:35 - 15:56)

US and Ukraine Push for a Peace Plan

• Special US envoy Steve Witkoff in Moscow to discuss the latest iteration of a peace plan aimed at ending Russia’s war on Ukraine.
• Recent negotiations: Series of meetings, including productive talks in Miami (with Secretary of State Marco Rubio) and previously in Geneva that reduced the peace plan from 28 to 19 points.

Expert Analysis with George Barros

• George Barros, Russia team lead at the Institute for the Study of War, provides deep context on the negotiations and their challenges.
  • Quote (09:48):

    "The Ukrainians and the Americans had a very productive meeting ... turned the 28 point plan into a 19 point plan, ... but I strongly, strongly suspect that this is going to be dead in arrival in Moscow, that the Russians will reject this plan and we'll sort of be back to square zero once again."
    — George Barros

Obstacles to Peace

• Russia’s unwavering “maximalist” demands, particularly regarding full control of the Donetsk and other eastern territories, make a US/Ukraine-EU proposed plan unacceptable for Moscow.

  • Quote (13:12):

    "The Russians have been very clear what their maximalist war aims are and they have offered to make exactly zero concessions." — George Barros

• Internal Ukrainian politics are affecting negotiations: Resignation of Zelensky’s chief of staff Andrei Yermak amid a corruption scandal investigated by Ukraine’s US-supported anti-corruption bureau (NABU).

Europe’s Involvement

• European nations, notably France, have proposed their own alternative plans, though it’s unclear how much these influence the US-led negotiations. At least three different versions of a peace plan are circulating.

Next Steps and US Response

• If (as expected) Russia rejects the peace plan, President Trump faces a “decision point,” per Barros: Does the US pull back support from Ukraine or escalate pressure on Russia through new means?
  • Quote (14:35):

    "The decision point is this. Do we ... stop intelligence sharing with Ukraine and stop selling weapons ... or ... explore the other tools that we have that we've not yet used, namely those being coercion against Russia?"
    — George Barros

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2. ECFA’s New Leader Care Policy and Evangelical Accountability

(Segment: 16:02 - 23:55)

Background

• ECFA (Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability) was formed to self-regulate Christian ministries after scandals in the 1970s and 1980s.
• New “leader care” standard will require boards to annually evaluate leaders’ well-being and adherence to moral and biblical standards, effective January 2027.

Divergent Responses within Evangelical Circles

• Most ministries and churches (2,000+ members) support the strengthening of accountability, while major organizations including the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (BGEA) and Samaritan’s Purse have withdrawn in protest.

• Franklin Graham’s Objection:

  • Argues the new leader care standard steps beyond ECFA’s expertise and authority, stating it ventures into “being the moral police for evangelical organizations.”
  • Quote from Graham’s letter (20:15):

    "Leader care is not an issue ... [he accuses ECFA of] being the moral police for evangelical organizations."

• ECFA’s Response:

  • CEO Michael Martin acknowledges disappointment at the departure of founding and prominent members but affirms the new policy’s value.

Donor Confidence and Transparency

• Ministry Watch, an independent evaluator, has downgraded donor confidence in the two withdrawing ministries, not as an indictment of their work, but reflecting lower transparency.

  • Quote (21:59):

    "If you're going to ask people for money, you should tell people where the money's going to." — Warren Smith, Ministry Watch

• Discussion noted the unique legal exemptions for religious organizations regarding disclosure (e.g., Form 990 filings).

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3. Farewell to the Penny: The End of an Era

(Segment: 25:56 - 31:44)

Historical Context of the Penny

• US Mint has officially stopped producing pennies after 232 years; the final coin was struck at the Philadelphia Mint.

• Financial rationale: It costs ~4 cents to make a penny, leading to annual losses of $50 million for the Mint.

  • Quote (27:41):

    "A single penny only has the buying power of $0.01, but costs almost $0.04 to make. Turns out its days have been numbered for a long time." — Stephen Roach, American Numismatic Association

Practical Impact on Consumers and Retail

• With 250 billion pennies still in circulation, practical withdrawals will be gradual, but consumers and retailers are already adapting.

• Examples: Rounding transactions to the nearest nickel, cash register software updates, some legal hurdles in certain states.

• Other countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand) have already retired low-denomination coins.

• The nickel may eventually follow, costing nearly 14 cents to produce.

Cultural Loss and Nostalgia

• Many Americans feel nostalgic for the penny, and phrases such as “a penny for your thoughts” persist in common language.
• A visit to the Mint illustrates an educational and sentimental connection to the coin, even as practical realities drive its extinction.

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4. Nuremberg Trials: Lessons from History

(Segment: 32:21 - 37:42)

Moral Authority and Universal Justice

• Andrew Walker, World Opinion’s managing editor, reflects on the 80th anniversary of the Nuremberg trials.

• Raises questions about international law, legal authority, and the deep moral gravity facing societies after the Holocaust.

  • Quote (32:50):

    "Nuremberg was not simply a courtroom. It was humanity's attempt to reckon with evil so horrific and so intentional that ordinary categories seemed insufficient." — Andrew Walker

Natural Law as Foundation

• The Nuremberg tribunal’s standards (crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity, conspiracy) were rooted not in national codes but “natural law.”

• The trials demonstrated a global appeal to a moral standard higher than man-made laws.

  • Quote (35:16):

    "Nuremberg stands as a modern vindication of the moral law of God, the natural law. It demonstrated that evil cannot be excused by legality, that positive law cannot be the final authority, and that justice demands reference to a universal moral order grounded in human dignity." — Andrew Walker

Enduring Ethical Questions

• Addresses philosophical and legal challenges: Allied war guilt, ex post facto justice, and the sovereignty of international law. But insists on the necessity of moral reckoning after atrocities.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Moscow’s Likely Rejection of Peace Plan

  "I strongly, strongly suspect that this is going to be dead in arrival in Moscow." (09:48) — George Barros

• On Moral Authority Behind Nuremberg

  "Nuremberg was not simply a courtroom. It was humanity's attempt to reckon with evil so horrific and so intentional that ordinary categories seemed insufficient." (32:50) — Andrew Walker

• On Transparency and Financial Accountability

  "If you're going to ask people for money, you should tell people where the money's going to." (21:59) — Warren Smith

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Russia-Ukraine Peace Plan Expert Interview: 08:35–15:56
• ECFA Policy and Evangelical Accountability: 16:02–23:55
• The Penny’s Final Days: 25:56–31:44
• Reflection on Nuremberg Trials: 32:21–37:42

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Tone and Language

• Direct, thoughtful, analytical, and rooted in a biblical worldview; maintains balanced reporting even on controversial issues, with space for disagreement and personal insight.

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Summary Takeaway

Listeners receive a clear understanding of the complicated path to peace in Ukraine, growing pains in Christian ministry oversight, and the end of an American coinage tradition—all connected by deep engagement with justice, accountability, and stewardship in both civic and faith communities. The episode is both informative and reflective, combining headline news with enduring moral questions.

Transcript

[Mary Reichard]

Good morning. It's Giving Tuesday and World's new donor drive starts today and goes to the end of the week.

[Nick Eicher]

It is and it does. And even though this is the kickoff, the beginning of the game, as it were, we do not start at zero because a long time world mover gave a $50,000 challenge gift. Now you can take that as a tangible reminder that when you become a new donor, you don't do that alone. You join this generous World Mover and thousands of others who make world. If you've never given to world, this week is your week and today is your day.

[Mary Reichard]

So on this Giving Tuesday, would you make your first time gift to help secure a future for sound journalism grounded in facts and biblical truth? Wng.org new donor. Good morning. The U.S. and Ukraine make progress on a peace plan. Will Russia buy in?

[Nick Eicher]

This is delicate.

[Mark Mellinger]

It's complicated. There are a lot of moving parts and obviously there's another party involved here that'll be a part of the equation.

[Nick Eicher]

We will talk about it today with an expert in foreign policy. And later, back when the penny was first struck for circulation, it was worth something. Now you know there really isn't a necessity for it. A fond farewell on the phase out of the fabulous American $0.01 coin and World Opinion's managing editor Andrew Walker on the Nuremberg trials. And natural.

[Mary Reichard]

It's Tuesday, December 2nd. This is the world and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio, I'm Mary Reichard.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Iker. Good morning.

[Mary Reichard]

Up next, Mark Mellinger with today's news.

[Mark Mellinger]

Lawmakers from both parties are turning up the heat on the Trump administration. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is at the center of it all. In September, the Washington Post reports Hegseth gave SEAL Team 6 a verbal order that led to a second strike on an alleged drug boat from Venezuela. After the first strike did not kill the entire crew, killing survivors at sea is a war crime. The White House Monday did confirm the second strike, though President Trump says Hegseth did not order it. Pete said he did not want them. He didn't even know what people were talking about.

[Nick Eicher]

So we'll look at, we'll look into it.

[Mark Mellinger]

But no, I wouldn't have wanted that.

[Nick Eicher]

Not a second strike.

[Mark Mellinger]

Though the White House denies the Post report on Hegseth, it is defending the strike order, saying it was done in self defense and in accordance with laws governing armed conflict. Lawmakers, however, aren't so sure. Both Republican and Democratic Senate and House Armed Services leaders have sent bipartisan letters to the Pentagon demanding a full accounting of the strike. President Trump and top members of his Cabinet, meantime, huddled in the Oval Office Monday evening to discuss next steps on Venezuel. The White House has recently sent more troops and warships to the Caribbean in an effort to pressure that country to stop drug trafficking. President Trump also confirms he's spoken by phone with Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro, but didn't say what was discussed. As US Lawmakers ratchet up scrutiny of the strikes on suspected drug boats in the region, the White House is facing increased pressure to release more information, especially on that September 2nd double strike. The Trump administration says Admiral Mitch Bradley, commander of US Special Operations Command, executed the second strike and was acting within the authority granted to him by Defense Secretary Hegseth in the wake of an Afghan national shooting two National Guard members near the White House last week. The Trump administration is tightening immigration restrictions. It's postponing all asylum decisions, pausing visas for Afghans and for the moment, stopping migration from what the White House calls 19 countries of concern. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem says this will give the government time to reexamine AFGHANS who helped U.S. forces during the Afghanistan war and were let into the country by the Biden administration.

[George Barros]

Many of these that came in even under this operation were people that never.

[Mary Reichard]

Should have been here.

[Mark Mellinger]

They were not vetted before they came.

[George Barros]

People should be vetted before they come here. Joe Biden allowed people to get on.

[Mary Reichard]

Airplanes and come here and said, we'll do that later.

[Mark Mellinger]

The suspect in last week's shooting was let in by the Biden administration, but granted asylum in April by the Trump administration. By the way, good news on the wounded staff sergeant who survived the shooting. West Virginia's governor says Andrew Wolf's condition has improved from critical to serious, and he is responsive. The Senate's top Democrat, Chuck Schumer, says three of his New York offices have received bomb threats.

[Nick Eicher]

The bomb threats against my offices came.

[Paul Butler]

With the email subject line MAGA and.

[Nick Eicher]

From an email address alleging the 2020 election was rigged.

[Mark Mellinger]

Schumer says the threats referenced his offices in Rochester, Binghamton and Long Island. He also says law enforcement responded immediately, everyone's safe, and that such threats have no place in our political system. A law enforcement source confirmed police responded to Schumer's Long island office but could not confirm details of the threat. US Special envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow today to meet with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, the subject of the talks ending Russia's war on Ukraine. President Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner, is also there for the discussions. This comes after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky sounded optimistic notes Monday, saying the Trump administration's proposed peace plan looks better after recent revisions. Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Marezko says one key sticking point is probably probably on the table during today's US Russian talks.

[Nick Eicher]

Putin continues to insist on withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the remainder of the Donetsk oblast, but which is totally unacceptable for us.

[Mark Mellinger]

Russia controls most, but not all of the Donetsk region after Ukraine says it illegally annexed it from Kiev a few years ago. Zelensky spent Monday in Paris meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron. The two men talked by phone with other European and US Leaders about issues like ensuring Ukraine's security and independence. A potential peace deal could include Ukraine ceding some land in exchange for security guarantees. Nick and Mary will take a deeper dive into all this in just a few minutes on the program. It could be a close race in a normally deep red congressional district in Tennessee today. Polls show Democrat Afton Bain competitive with Republican Matt Van Epps, who's fighting to keep the SE in GOP hands after Congressman Mark Green's resignation over the summer. It is a district President Trump carried by 22 points. House Speaker Mike Johnson was there campaigning Monday, working to get out the vote and avoid a loss that would narrow the GOP's already thin house majority.

[Nick Eicher]

The problem is when you have a deep red district, a lot of the people take for granted that the Republican or the conservative is going to win. And so this is in the middle of a holiday.

[George Barros]

A lot of people aren't even really.

[Nick Eicher]

Aware this is on the ballot.

[Mark Mellinger]

Johnson on Fox News Channel's Will Kane show. President Trump also held a virtual rally for Van Epps Monday. Bain, meantime, held an online rally Monday with former Vice President Al Gore and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. Former VP Kamala Harris also stumped for Bain last month. I'm Mark Bellinger. Straight ahead, the Trump administration meets with leaders from Ukraine and Russia hoping to broker peace. Plus, a visit to the US Meant as the Penny's days come to an end. This is the world and everything in it.

[Nick Eicher]

It's Tuesday, the 2nd of December. Thank you for joining us today on World Radio. Good morning. I'm Nick Eichert.

[Mary Reichard]

And I'm Mary Reichard. And first up on the world and everything in it, Ukraine peace talks. Special envoy Steve Witkoff is scheduled to meet Vladimir Putin in Moscow today to discuss a deal to end the war in Ukraine. This comes after talks in Miami over the weekend between a delegation from Ukraine and US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

[Andrew Walker]

This is delicate.

[Mark Mellinger]

It's complicated. There are a lot of moving parts and obviously there's another party involved here.

[George Barros]

That will have to be a part of the equation.

[Mark Mellinger]

And we continue to be realistic about.

[Andrew Walker]

How difficult this is, but optimistic, particularly.

[Mark Mellinger]

Given the fact that as we've made.

[Andrew Walker]

Progress, I think there is a shared vision here that this is not just.

[Mark Mellinger]

About ending the war, which is very important. It is about securing Ukraine's future.

[Nick Eicher]

Joining us now, George Barros. He's Russia team lead at the Institute for the Study of War. He's also a former advisor to the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Mary Reichard]

George, good morning.

[George Barros]

Hi, Mary, good morning. Thanks for having me.

[Mary Reichard]

Once again, glad you're here. Well, just as you predicted last week, no deal by Thanksgiving. Marco Rubio said after meetings on Sunday that talks were productive, but no details yet. So what's your read on where things likely stand between the US And Ukraine?

[George Barros]

The Ukrainians and the Americans had a very productive meeting two Sundays ago, the Sunday before Thanksgiving in Geneva, where they turned the 28 point plan into a 19 point plan, I suspect by axing some of the provisions that were problematic in the first edition. And then there was a subsequent meeting, as you noted this last Sunday in Miami, which was productive. But we don't have very many concrete details coming out of there. And now what we have today is Steve Witkoff going to Moscow to meet with Vladimir Putin to discuss these plans. And candidly, we don't have any readouts yet, but I strongly, strongly suspect that this is going to be dead in arrival in Moscow, that the Russians will reject this plan and we'll sort of be back to square zero once again.

[Mary Reichard]

Well, the delegation to Florida was smaller because Zelensky's chief of staff, Andrei Yermak, resigned on Friday. What's going on there?

[George Barros]

Yermak is implicated in a corruption scandal because several of his associates were implicated in abuses and graft and that sort of thing. And Ukraine's independent Anti Corruption Bureau successfully investigated and uncovered that corruption. And so Zelensky therefore asked for his resignation, which he attended.

[Mary Reichard]

What was the origin of that corruption commission? Where did that come from?

[George Barros]

The National Anti Corruption Agency of Ukraine, also called Naboo. This was stood up in the post2014 years, actually, with support from the American FBI and the American government to essentially root out systematic corruption that had dominated the Ukrainian government since it became independent following the end of the Soviet Union. Really the legacy of vestigial corruption from the Soviet period as it bled into independent Ukraine and the history and legacy of that anti corruption bureau has been very successful in uncovering these sorts of things. You know, it's always, of course, disturbing to see corruption within Ukraine or any other country that we're an ally with. But the key difference here between Ukraine and other countries are Ukraine and Russia, of course, is when there is corruption, it's observed, there's accountability, and people are fired for it. Which is, which is better than it being just in the shadows in perpetuity?

[Mary Reichard]

Well, Zelensky has been negotiating with the US but also meeting with European leaders, particularly French President Emmanuel Macron. Now, what has Europe been putting on the table?

[George Barros]

The Sunday before Thanksgiving, the Europeans also came up with their own alternative plan to the 28 point peace plan, which by all counts is better than the original 28 point peace plan. But really we don't know. I'm tracking at least three different lines of revision to the initial 28 point peace plan that was leaked back in mid November. So there's the line of negotiations and an iteration that Marco Rubio is overseeing when he took this to Geneva and then took it to Miami last week. There's a line of revision where, as I understand, Steve Witkov has been working on his own feedback and trying to incorporate various different critiques of that plan. And then there's the European plan, and it's unclear to me the extent to which provisions in the European plan are affecting what Marco Rubio is doing and or what CAV is doing. And it'll be very interesting to see once I suppose we get an official announcement or the plan is leaked to see what points stuck and what points have been amended or changed.

[Mary Reichard]

Now, you say the deal is likely dead on arrival in Moscow. Why do you say so?

[George Barros]

The Russians have been very clear what their maximalist war aims are and they have offered to make exactly zero concessions and they continue to do so throughout this entire process. The deal as it existed in the first 28 point plan, it actually had many provisions that benefit the Russians and that actually are major concessions from the US And Ukraine to Russia. But it doesn't concede everything that the Russians demand. And the Russians have been very clear in reiterating that they want to have their cake and eat it too. President Putin on Thanksgiving Day gave a lengthy speech in Kyrgyzstan where he basically outlined and said, we want to have these territorial concessions, we want to seize all of these provinces in eastern and southern Ukraine and come we're going to get it in negotiations or we're going to war fight for it. And the 28 point peace plan as describes doesn't have that. There's a deputy Russian foreign minister, his name is Ravkov. He also made a statement saying that the plan is no go. We have numerous Russian military bloggers and commentators within the Russian state media apparatus saying how the plan's a no go. So, you know, it would, it would be a major inflection if all of a sudden the Russians accept this because they've not demonstrated any kind of willingness to back down off of their maximalist war aims.

[Mary Reichard]

Earlier this year, President Trump said on Truth Social that Putin just was not serious about peace talks. So if Russia does reject the deal again, do you think Trump will respond the same way?

[George Barros]

When the Russians reject this deal, it's going to impose a decision point on President Trump. And the decision point is this. Do we say we give up with trying to solve this war and we will stop intelligence sharing with Ukraine and stop selling weapons to Ukraine because we no longer give it to them for free. It's now under the rubric of military sales and just sort of tell the Ukrainians and the Europeans, hey, enjoy your war, we're done with this. That's one option, although I would argue that's that's a bad option. The other option is to explore the other tools that we have that we've not yet used, namely those being coercion against Russia. The Americans and the Ukrainians have gotten all strung up in working out the details of this plan, which the Russians were from day one saying that they were never going to accept. And, you know, it's put the Ukrainians into a weird place because if they don't accept the terms of this deal and it blows up in the Ukrainians hands, and it makes the Ukrainians look like they're the impediment to peace and they're the bad guys. Now when this does blow up in the Russian hands, then we have to come to that other conclusion, which is actually it's not the Ukrainians that are not willing to make concessions. It's not the Ukrainians that aren't willing to budge. It's actually the Russians. And therefore, how should that impact the way that we go forward with dealing with Moscow moving forward?

[Mary Reichard]

George Barros is Russia Team and Geospatial Intelligence Team lead for the Institute for the Study of War. George, thanks so much for your time once again.

[George Barros]

Of course. Thanks for having me, Mary. It's always a pleasure.

[Nick Eicher]

Up next, evangelical accountability. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, a series of televangelist scandals sparked concern about the integrity of big Ministries and the integrity of their leaders. The biggest headlines involving the PTL network and financial scandals.

[Stephen Roach]

Jim Baker was found guilty on all 24 counts of wire and mail fraud and conspiracy.

[Nick Eicher]

Since that time, Christians formed the ecfa, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, to bring transparency to big ministry finances and their leaders. But decades later, not everyone thinks they are sticking to the essentials.

[Mary Reichard]

Back in October, two ministries run by the family of the late evangelist Billy Graham cut ties with ECFA over a new policy the leader of those ministries says goes beyond the original purpose. World's Paul Butler has the story.

[Mark Mellinger]

Board governance is one of those that I'm still trying to grow in, and I feel like they provide some good resources.

[Paul Butler]

Joseph Merritt is executive pastor of operations at Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky. As the church has grown, Merritt and his fellow pastors decided they wanted to do more to ensure leaders understood financial accountability and godly governance.

[Mark Mellinger]

We've got six campuses as a church with about 2,500 in attendance on a Sunday morning.

[George Barros]

You know, on average, Highview completed its.

[Paul Butler]

ECFA accreditation in March.

[Mark Mellinger]

And so I feel like there is, you know, a little bit higher of a bar that as a church I.

[Andrew Walker]

Want us to operate at.

[Paul Butler]

The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability has more than 2,000 members, from local churches to international ministries, and it accredits them based on its seven standards of responsible stewardship. The list covers issues from transparency with financial statements to responsible board governance. But the list will soon change to include a new standard.

[Nick Eicher]

The ECFA has arrived at the conclusion that leader care is an important issue when it comes to financial integrity of an organization.

[Paul Butler]

Warren Smith Smith is president of Ministry Watch, a non profit that does financial analysis and reporting on Christian ministries and agencies like the ECFA. Smith formerly wrote for World. He has critiqued ECFA's model of charging member fees, saying it undermines independent accreditation. But he supports the new policy. In March 2024, ECFA announced it would create a standard for excellence in leader care. It goes into effect January 2027.

[Nick Eicher]

The Standard says the board and the senior leader of the organization should have a conversation on at least an annual basis to, you know, make sure that the leader is doing okay, that the leader is adhering to the moral biblical standards that the organization says that it subscribes to, and that the organization should document that conversation in some way.

[Paul Butler]

The standard lets members craft their own leader plans, but it offers examples like regular prayer for the senior leader, protecting time off for vacations and mandating annual health exams.

[George Barros]

There's an awful lot of pastors who the expectations are so much.

[Mark Mellinger]

They work a ton of hours. They are supposed to be everything to everybody.

[George Barros]

So to have something that has to do with leader care I think is really important.

[Paul Butler]

Sally Wagenmaker is an attorney who works with nonprofits and churches.

[Mark Mellinger]

I don't know of anything that is.

[George Barros]

As well developed as this with respect.

[Mark Mellinger]

To other denominations or non denominational organizations.

[George Barros]

This just seems like a really helpful tool.

[Paul Butler]

But not everyone is happy about it. Days before the announcement in October, the Billy Graham Evangelistic association and the humanitarian group Samaritan's Purse both announced that they would not renew their membership in ecfa. Warren Smith Once again Franklin Graham was.

[Nick Eicher]

Very explicit in a letter to the ecfa, a letter that we have a copy of that he says that leader care is not an issue and that he accuses the ECFA of being the moral police for evangelical organizations.

[Paul Butler]

The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association's press team sent World a copy of that letter. In it, Graham says the leader care standard deals with spiritual maturity and behavior matters clearly outside the scope of ECFA's expertise. The letter concludes with Graham's concern that the policy cannot address or prevent a leader's deceit. In his words, this is ultimately a sin problem with its root in the human heart, which only God can fix, not ecfa, even with a mountain of standards. World asked ECFA Chief Executive Officer Michael Martin about Graham's letter and he replied, while we are disappointed that the leaders of BGEA and Samaritan's Purse have decided to withdraw, we honor their legacy. Evangelist Billy Graham was among ECFA's founders in 1977. Now his organizations are out, but Warren Smith says it does not look like a larger exodus is happening.

[Nick Eicher]

Samaritan's Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic association, at least so far, are the only organizations that I have heard about that have left and explicitly identified this new standard as the reason for their leaving.

[Paul Butler]

Ministry Watch has downgraded its donor confidence scores for both organizations. He quickly adds, though, that the scores do not mean a ministry like BGEA is failing to do good work, but.

[Nick Eicher]

It fails to do certain things, including release their Form 990s and become members of the ECFA that allow them to be part of the top echelon of Christian ministries. In other words, if you're going to ask people for money, you should tell people where the money's going to.

[Paul Butler]

Nonprofit organizations registered as 501s with the IRS are required to submit information about their executive salaries and board members in the Form 990. But churches, mission societies and denominations are exempt from this requirement. In 2013, BGEA stopped filing a Form 990 after declaring itself a mission society. Samaritan's Purse does file a Form 990 and posts financial statements on its website, but because it withdrew from ecfa, Ministry Watch moved it into the withhold giving category as well. When asked about this change, a spokesperson for Samaritan's Purse pointed to other metrics showing greater confidence in the organization's financial accountability. He also told World that Samaritan's purse would welcome ECFA's return to the original scope under which it was founded without the rules for leader care. And that brings us back to Louisville. Pastor Merritt says Highview Church does have plans in place to care for its senior leaders, but he's not sure that it should be part of ECFA's accreditation program.

[Mark Mellinger]

I think when organizations can sometimes go in directions that are good but aren't.

[Nick Eicher]

Really at the core of what purpose.

[George Barros]

That organization has, I think it can.

[Mark Mellinger]

Kind of distract from it its core.

[George Barros]

Mission for what world.

[Paul Butler]

I'm Paul Butler. Washington producer Harrison Waters reported the story.

[Nick Eicher]

Additional support comes from Water's Edge. Save More, do More, Give more Helping.

[George Barros]

Christians support ministry by giving through a.

[Nick Eicher]

Donor advised fund, watersedge.com daf and from.

[George Barros]

Ambassadors Impact Network, helping entrepreneurs with a.

[Nick Eicher]

Purpose find the support they need to.

[George Barros]

Thrive with faith aligned financing options.

[Nick Eicher]

[e-mail]. Off the coast of Australia, scientists studying humpback whales discovered they were not alone. Their whale cams kept getting photobombed by free riders. They're called remoras, popularly known as suckerfish. These tiny hitchhikers that vacuum seal themselves to whales for an all expenses paid trip across the ocean. But when the whales try to give their stowaways the slip, the remoras have a move of their own. Researcher Olaf Meinecke.

[Mark Mellinger]

They knew exactly when to let go.

[Nick Eicher]

Of the body of the whale before it was breaching the surface of the water. And seconds later, the fish glide right back into place like synchronized swimmers. Scientists say the whales don't really love the company and the remoras probably don't love the nickname that they've been stuck with because you know, when you think about it just a little bit, who's the sucker here, Right? It's the world and everything in it.

[Mary Reichard]

Today is Tuesday, December 2nd. Thank you for turning to World Radio to help start your day. Good morning, I'm Mary Reichert.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Coming next on the World and Everything in it the US Mint in Philadelphia pressed the very last penny after a 232 year run. 3, 2, 1. Done. US Treasurer Brandon beach gave his two cents worth at that November 20th 12th ceremony. The last time we've discontinued a coin was the half cent, and that was in 1857, 168 years ago. So everyone sitting in this room, we are experiencing history today.

[Mary Reichard]

The move comes after an announcement this spring from the treasury saying pennies cost more to make than they're worth. World's Ama Iker went to the Philadelphia Mint and has the.

[Nick Eicher]

This is the coin production area of the US Mint.

[Stephen Roach]

Tourists stroll around a viewing area above the warehouse floor of the Mint, peering down through glass at the rows of blue machines and conveyor belts. An overhead announcer delivers information about typical operations.

[Nick Eicher]

At regular intervals, inspectors carefully examine the finished coins.

[Stephen Roach]

The machines press up to 1 million coins in just a half hour. Some shiny new quarters are piled on the floor, left over from a day's work.

[Mark Mellinger]

The new coins are then stored in huge concrete and steel vaults.

[Nick Eicher]

Later, the coins are shipped to Federal.

[Mark Mellinger]

Reserve banks for distribution.

[Stephen Roach]

A penny saved is a penny earned and the US treasury is taking that idiom seriously. A single penny only has the buying power of $0.01, but costs almost $0.04 to make. Turns out its days have been numbered for a long time.

[Nick Eicher]

This isn't something new. Even I believe as early as the 70s, the Mint was looking to suspend the denomination.

[Stephen Roach]

Stephen Roach is a collector and currency expert with the American Numismatic Association.

[Nick Eicher]

The Mint is a profitable organization. I would say it's self sufficient. So logically, I believe they'll be saving about 50 million annually.

[Stephen Roach]

While the penny has been discontinued, there are still roughly 250 billion of them in circulation. So they aren't likely to disappear anytime soon. But without new coins, retailers face a shortage and consumers may have to adapt to a penniless exchange with cashiers. Last month in Cranberry Township, Pennsylvania, a Get Go gas station stuck a poster to the door urging customers to pay with a card. It also warned that cashiers might be unable to give exact change. These adjustments are becoming common.

[Nick Eicher]

I just went to lunch at Burger King and they have like an actual like thing on their window talking about the penny shortage.

[Stephen Roach]

So Jordan is a Walgreens cashier down the road from the Get Go. One day a new button on the register appeared, allowing her to automatically round an item price up or down to the nearest nickel.

[Nick Eicher]

And so then we discussed it with like our managers and they were like, yeah, this is, you know, what's happening.

[Mary Reichard]

You know, it's for the penny shortage.

[Stephen Roach]

She swiped a Snickers bar to demonstrate.

[Nick Eicher]

So on our payment screen, it just.

[Mary Reichard]

It allows us the ability to like.

[Nick Eicher]

Adjust for a penny shortage.

[Stephen Roach]

It's a temporary fix to the problem. There's also an issue of legality, as at least 10 states prohibit rounding any business transaction to the nearest 5 cents. It's up to policymakers and individual retailers to sort out the way forward as American sticker prices change. But Roach anticipates that there won't be much difficulty because there isn't a real need for the penny anymore. In fact, other countries have set the trend that the US Is following.

[Nick Eicher]

So Australia, they discontinued their penny. Our northern neighbors, the Canadians, back in 2012, they discontinued their cent as well.

[Stephen Roach]

New Zealand removed their 1 and 2 cent coins in the 90s and got rid of their 5 cent coin almost 20 years ago. In the US it currently costs a whopping 13.78 cents to make a nickel. The Mint is looking at alternative metals to reduce the cost, but in the future, the nickel might receive the same fate as the penny. Joining a long line of discontinued coins.

[Nick Eicher]

Not a whole lot of people know the smallest denomination struck for circulation was the half cent. So ultimately they discontinued that in 1857. We've also had a 2 cent piece that was first struck during the Civil War in 1864, then discontinued in 1872 for circulation.

[Stephen Roach]

There have been 15 discontinued denominations since the first coin was minted in 1792. Most of the time, rising production costs trigger the death knell. In the case of the penny, the cost, coupled with inflation makes it nearly obsolete.

[Nick Eicher]

Back when the penny was first struck for circulation long ago in 1793, it was worth something. It was a significant amount of money. As time went on, inflation increased and now, you know, there really isn't a necessity for it.

[Stephen Roach]

Even though the move makes practical sense, some still mourn the loss. The coin remains relevant in American terminology, like when something costs a pretty penny. Or perhaps you'd like a penny for your thoughts.

[Mary Reichard]

If there's a penny on the ground.

[Nick Eicher]

But it's, you know, tails, you don't.

[Mary Reichard]

Pick it up because it's bad luck, whatever.

[Stephen Roach]

Michelle Leilani brought her daughter to the Philadelphia Mint to catch a glimpse of the coins and learn about their history.

[Nick Eicher]

This is probably how hard it must have been.

[Stephen Roach]

Together, they cranked the penny press machine in the gift shop to make an engraved souvenir out of the trip.

[Nick Eicher]

Most people, if they look back in like their own interactions with coins, they would see that you really.

[Mary Reichard]

You use the penny more than you think.

[Stephen Roach]

But for the treasury, stopping the coin circulation is more about the math than the memories. And that will be worth every penny. Reporting for World, I'm Emma Iger in Philadelphia.

[Nick Eicher]

Good morning. This is the world and everything in it. From Listener supported World Radio, I'm Nick Eicher.

[Mary Reichard]

And I'm Mary Reichard. 80 years ago last week the Nuremberg trials began. It was an unprecedented attempt to hold leaders of the Holocaust to account. World Opinion's managing editor, Andrew Walker says Nazi war crimes cried out for a justice beyond the reach of man made laws.

[Nick Eicher]

At Nuremberg, the Hitler gang has gone on trial for the first time.

[Mark Mellinger]

Criminal war leaders are being judged by an international court.

[Andrew Walker]

I confess that the events of Nuremberg fascinate me. On the one hand, the idea that a temporary military tribunal comprised of the Allied powers would formulate legal standards almost, almost ex nihilo to put Nazi leaders on trial raises perennial philosophical questions about legal authority and legitimacy. Was this a court with true jurisdiction or simply the moral will of the victors? That question still lingers. Yet as a professor of Christian ethics, it is not merely the procedural complexity that holds my attention. It's the moral gravity. Nuremberg was not simply a courtroom. It was humanity's attempt to reckon with evil so horrific and so intentional that ordinary categories seemed insufficient. The Nazis crimes were grotesque and intentionally dehumanizing. And those crimes demanded justice. The trials stand as evidence that the human conscience and the laws of nations cry out for justice.

[Nick Eicher]

Judges from Britain, America, Russia and France assemble in Nuremberg's courthouse, empowered to impose sentence of death.

[George Barros]

Yes.

[Nick Eicher]

Or such punishment as it may consider just.

[Mark Mellinger]

The tribunal sits in judgment upon 20.

[Nick Eicher]

Leaders of the Nazi party.

[Andrew Walker]

Four legal categories were established at the crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity and conspiracy to commit the same. These standards did not arise from any nation's legal code, but from universal principles of justice. They rested on the natural law. That point is decisive. The Nazis preferred defense that we were just obeying lawful orders collapsed the moment a law higher than German positive law was acknowledged. Natural law established a moral jurisdiction transcending national sovereignty. Why then was a trial necessary justice? Robert H. Jackson of the Supreme Court of the United States, the chief American prosecutor, framed the answer soberly and unmistakably in his opening statement. The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant and so devastating, jackson said, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored because it cannot survive their being repeated. For Jackson, Nuremberg was not merely punitive, it was a civilizational test for whether the world possessed the legal temerity to reckon with the horrors that visited it. Humanity had to prove it possessed the moral resources sufficient to prevent such evil from recurring.

[Nick Eicher]

There have always been ambitious and ruthless men ready to gamble with the lives of their fellows. Now, for the first time, international gangsters stand trial as common criminals.

[Andrew Walker]

Still, the trials were morally and philosophically fraught. Were the Allies themselves not guilty of moral wrongs in war? Was it legitimate to try defendants on legal grounds formulated after their actions had occurred? And could anything called international law truly binding and supersede sovereign nations? These questions are not trivial. They remain live issues in jurisprudence, ethics and international relations. Even so, one feature stands out with clarity. When confronted with atrocities of such scale, humanity instinctively appeals to an objective moral standard. Abstract academic debates about relativism sound impressive. In seminar rooms. They sound absurd. Amid the piles of shoes At Auschwitz.

[Nick Eicher]

Imagination sickens at the crimes laid upon the accused. Now stripped of the trappings of power, the world's writ has run to Nuremberg, and justice waits.

[Andrew Walker]

Nuremberg stands as a modern vindication of the moral law of God, the natural law. It demonstrated that evil cannot be excused by legality, that positive law cannot be the final authority, and that justice demands reference to a universal moral order grounded in human dignity. At Nuremberg, the nations of the world looked into the abyss of human depravity and rendered judgment not merely by power, politics or treaty, but by appeal to a law higher than man. That law is nothing less than the law of God, written on the heart and revealed in creation. We often repeat the phrase there are no atheists in foxholes, meaning that at the brink of death, the denial of God collapses under the weight of staring existential reality down at the end of a gun barrel. That is true when we confront evil so profound that language strains to describe it. The human heart knows instinctively there must be justice, and justice must be grounded in something higher than the state. But the moral horror we feel in the face of Nazi atrocities teaches an additional truth. There were no atheists at Nuremberg either. I'm Andrew Walker.

[Mary Reichard]

A reminder that it is giving Tuesday, and we are asking that if the world and everything in it is an important part of your day and you've never given before, that you make today the day you do. Please visit wng.org new tomorrow, Washington, Wednesday and World tour. And the remarkable friendship of Two of the 20th century's greatest writers and how they used the power of a Christian imagination to influence culture. That and more tomorrow. I'm Mary Reichard.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher the world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The Bible says have nothing to do with irreverent silly myths. Rather, train yourself for godliness. For while bodily training is of some value, Godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive because we have our hopes and the living God who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. Verses 7 through 10 of 1 Timothy chapter 4 go now in grace and peace.