2.3.26 Venezuela’s regime change, gender ideology in the Daughters of the American Revolution, and the challenges facing small rural churches

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The World and Everything In It
Episode: 2.3.26 – Venezuela’s Regime Change, Gender Ideology in the Daughters of the American Revolution, and the Challenges Facing Small Rural Churches
Date: February 3, 2026
Hosts: Mary Reichardt & Nick Eicher
Producer(s): WORLD Radio Team

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The World and Everything In It" brings a three-part journalistic focus:

1. Analysis of the US-backed regime change in Venezuela and issues surrounding stabilization and democracy.
2. The internal debate within the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) over gender ideology and membership eligibility.
3. A reflective feature on the declining attendance and unique resilience of small, rural churches in America.

Topical, nuanced, and engaging, this episode balances headline-driven international news with a close look at American cultural shifts and faith communities.

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1. Venezuela’s Regime Change: Stability vs. Democracy

[06:13–14:53]

Key Discussion Points

• US-Initiated Removal of Maduro: The US orchestrated the removal of President Nicolas Maduro, resulting in the release of over 300 political prisoners. Delcy Rodriguez, former VP and Maduro ally, remains in power.
• Concerns Over Stability: Rubio argues the priority was avoiding civil war and mass migration.
  • Quote – Marco Rubio ([06:44]):
    “Objective number one was stability … All of that has been avoided.”
• Allegations Against New Leadership: Reports allege Rodriguez’s involvement in drug trafficking, but Rubio states the information is unconfirmed.
  • Quote – Marco Rubio ([07:10]):
    “We are just acknowledging reality and that is you have to work with the people that are in charge of the elements of government.”
• Debate Over Installing the Opposition: Some senators criticize the absence of opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. Rubio responds that the current power structure still favors the old regime.
  • Quote – Marco Rubio ([07:32]):
    “Elements of control in that country…are in the hands of this regime.”
• No Quick Fix: Rubio likens regime change to a long, gradual process.
  • Quote – Marco Rubio ([07:59]):
    “This is not a frozen dinner you put in a microwave and in two and a half minutes it comes out ready to eat.”
• Signs of Progress: The opening of oil investment and proposed banking systems signal incremental advancement.
  • Quote – Marco Rubio ([08:15]):
    “It's a big step from where they were three weeks ago.”

In-Depth Interview – Ambassador Charles Shapiro

• Surprise and Skepticism:
  • Shapiro, former ambassador to Venezuela, was surprised by the US's direct removal of Maduro, expecting only escalating pressure, not intervention.
    • Quote – Charles Shapiro ([09:03]):
      “I had no idea what was happening ... Surprised that it ended where it did … we took out Maduro and the first lady, but left everybody else in place.”
  • Critiques leaving Maduro’s “bad guys” in charge—those continuing repression.
• Stability Over Democracy:
  • The US, in backing Rodriguez and maintaining the same security apparatus, is prioritizing immediate stability over democratic transformation.
    • Quote – Charles Shapiro ([11:01]):
      “You've got the same police and the same military maintaining order … The forces of repression continue to repress.”
• Long-Term Challenges:
  • Deep mistrust after 25 years of authoritarianism hampers institution-building.
• Roadblocks to Democracy:
  • Electoral bodies, the judiciary, and the constitution are all controlled or tailored to Chavez/Maduro loyalists and need fundamental reform.
    • Quote – Charles Shapiro ([12:25]):
      “You can't have an election if those guys are in charge. You need to replace them.”
• Cautions from History:
  • The US seeks to avoid the chaos seen in Iraq by not immediately dismantling the security apparatus, but this risks continued repression.
    • Quote – Charles Shapiro ([14:13]):
      “[In Iraq,] we abolished the military and the police, then there was … huge confusion and chaos as a result.”

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2. Gender Ideology and the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR)

[14:59–21:45]

Key Discussion Points

• Historic Women-Only Status Challenged:
  • The DAR’s traditional requirement that members be women descended from patriots has been rewritten, following a bylaw change adopted in 2023.
• Personal Reflections:
  • Member Laura McDonald recounts wrestling with the implications of admitting transgender “women” as members:
    • Quote – Myrna Brown (reading McDonald’s reflection, [16:10]):
      “As soon as I was about to type those words out, I thought about the former health secretary … What are we going to do when he or somebody like him … decides he wants to join the DAR?”
• Amendment Controversy:
  • The bylaw now prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation or, in effect, gender identity. A certified female birth certificate makes one eligible.
    • Quote – DAR’s Parliamentarian ([18:10]):
      “If a person's certified birth certificate states female, they're eligible for membership.”
  • Traditionalists object, asking for a definition grounded in “two X chromosomes.”
    • Quote – Judy Lindsey ([18:19]):
      “The DAR should be able to define what a woman is scientifically … not one with an X and a Y.”
• Legal Pressures:
  • The stated reason for the amendment was advice from legal counsel, with leaders warning of possible loss of 501(c)(3) (nonprofit) status for discrimination. Yet, legal experts contacted by WORLD disputed this, saying sex-based organizations are protected.
    • Quote – Randall Wenger, Independence Law Center ([20:01]):
      “An organization like the DAR is not at risk of losing tax-exempt status by refusing membership to men, even if those men identify as women.”
• Pushback and Ongoing Campaigns:
  • McDonald and others are fighting to restore the original meaning of “Daughter,” organizing a special meeting for a clarifying bylaw vote. She faces accusations of bigotry but reaffirms her motives as faith-driven.
    • Quote – Laura McDonald ([21:09]):
      “My faith rests in Jesus Christ, and all of this is in service to him ultimately.”

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3. Small Rural Churches: Trials and Tenacity

[23:53–29:50]

Key Discussion Points

• Dramatic Decline:
  • Church attendance in the US has plunged from over 40% in the 1970s to less than 20%, with Gen Z showing the steepest drop-off.
    • Quote – Ryan Burge, political scientist ([24:19]):
      “The rate of decline has slowed lately, but there’s no sign of numbers bouncing back yet.”
• Case Study: Calcium Community Church, NY:
  • A classic rural congregation, down to 30–35 members, but weathering financial and generational storms.
    • Quote – Milton LaSalle, pastor ([25:39]):
      “This is a world where we face a lot of problems. That's just the way it is. A sin-cursed world. What do we expect?”
  • Sunday school teacher Ruthie Rafus laments shrinking classes, as many young people abandon organized religion.
    • Quote – Ruthie Rafus ([27:13]):
      “Younger people now just don't feel like it's that important … ‘I can read my Bible at home. I can pray at home.’”
  • Recent years brought a post-pandemic scare—threat of closure reported in local news, but new donations and members kept the doors open for now.
    • Quote – Charles Shapiro (deacon, likely pseudonym or edited audio, [28:35]):
      “It seems like with everything going up, it seems impossible that we can make ends meet again this year.”
  • Despite uncertain outlooks and aging membership, the community’s outlook is grounded in faithful resilience.
    • Quote – Milton LaSalle ([29:11]):
      “When they leave, the Lord brings somebody else in.”

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4. Commentary: “Empathy Untethered” — Joe Rigney Responds to Hillary Clinton

[29:57–34:24]

Key Discussion Points

• Background:
  • Hillary Clinton criticized commentator Joe Rigney by name in The Atlantic for “waging a war on empathy,” singling out his and Ali Beth Stuckey’s rejection of “empathetic” sermons at the National Cathedral.
• Rigney’s Response:
  • Clarifies he is not against compassion, but warns of “empathy” being used as moral authority at the expense of truth and justice.
    • Quote – Joe Rigney ([31:02]):
      “Empathy now means emotional identification, feeling what other people feel, and treating that feeling as a moral authority. That is where problems begin.”
  • Argues weaponized empathy overlooks victims of bad policies, allows sentiment to override duty, and confuses compassion with emotional manipulation.
    • Quote – Joe Rigney ([32:11]):
      “Biblical compassion is not sentimentality or emotional manipulation. It does not allow fear to override justice or guilt to override truth.”
  • ‘Empathy,’ untethered from truth, becomes highly selective and a veto over law and reason.
    • Quote – Joe Rigney ([31:33]):
      “Empathy pulls our attention in one direction and trains us to look away from others.”
    • Quote – Joe Rigney ([32:26]):
      “When empathy is elevated above all else, it becomes a tool of emotional pressure.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “This is not a frozen dinner you put in a microwave…”
  – Marco Rubio ([07:59])
• “If Maduro's bad enough to take him out, why do you leave these two guys in place…?”
  – Charles Shapiro ([10:04])
• “You can't have an election if those guys are in charge. You need to replace them.”
  – Charles Shapiro ([12:25])
• “If a person's certified birth certificate states female, they're eligible for membership.”
  – DAR Parliamentarian/Legal Advisor ([18:10])
• “My faith rests in Jesus Christ, and all of this is in service to him ultimately.”
  – Laura McDonald ([21:09])
• “The younger generation as a whole aren't as spiritually interested anymore.”
  – Milton LaSalle ([26:22])
• “Empathy pulls our attention in one direction and trains us to look away from others.”
  – Joe Rigney ([31:33])

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Useful Timestamps

• [06:13] Venezuela regime change explained
• [08:25–14:53] In-depth interview with Ambassador Charles Shapiro
• [14:59] DAR’s history and the gender identity dispute
• [21:45] Status of the ongoing DAR internal campaign
• [23:53] Introduction to rural church challenges
• [25:45] Pastor LaSalle’s reflections on generational decline
• [27:13] The shrinking Sunday school experience
• [28:34] The congregation discusses—and passes—a “bare-bones” budget
• [29:57] Joe Rigney’s response to Hillary Clinton and the cultural debate on empathy

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a reflective, calm, and investigative tone—balancing journalistic objectivity with a grounded, faith-inspired worldview. Quotes by interviewees and show hosts are delivered candidly and with contextual clarity, fitting the program’s approach to “biblically objective journalism.”

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For Listeners

This episode is essential for those seeking a clear understanding of Venezuela’s new political landscape, the cultural clash over the definition of womanhood in legacy organizations, and the shifts redefining the American religious experience. It also offers thoughtful commentary for Christians navigating compassion and cultural pressure.

Transcript

[Mary Reichardt]

Good morning. The US Defends progress made in Venezuela.

[Marco Rubio]

I get it. We all want like something immediately. But this is not a frozen dinner you put in a microwave and in two and a half minutes it comes out ready to eat.

[Nick Eicher]

We'll talk about it with a former U.S. ambassador to Venezuela. Also today, the battle over gender ideology hits. Daughters of the American Revolution. Later, America's church drop off.

[Charles Shapiro]

The younger generation as a whole aren't happy as spiritually interested anymore.

[Nick Eicher]

And world commentator Joe Rigney responds to Hillary Clinton calling him out.

[Mary Reichardt]

It's Tuesday, February 3rd. This is the world and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio. I'm Mary Reichardt.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.

[Mary Reichardt]

Up next, Kent Covington with today's news.

[Kent Covington]

It is still unclear when the latest government shutdown will end. Some House Democrats are rejecting a funding compromise struck by Senate Democrats last week. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries blames Republicans for not agreeing to new limits on Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ice that in the wake of federal agent involved shootings in Minnesota.

[Marco Rubio]

The question for Republicans will continue to be are you going to double and triple down on your extremism or try.

[Charles Shapiro]

To find a bipartisan path forward?

[Kent Covington]

Republicans say some of the Democrats demands are not reasonable. Republicans could pass another funding bill without Democrats, but GOP leaders have almost no margin with a razor thin majority of just four seats. House Majority Whip Steve Scalise was asked Monday if they have the needed votes. We always work till the midnight hour.

[Laura McDonald]

To get the votes.

[Charles Shapiro]

And you know, you never start the.

[Kent Covington]

Process with everybody on board. You work through it. And you could say that with every.

[Charles Shapiro]

Major bill we passed.

[Kent Covington]

The Senate compromise would fund Homeland Security for a couple of weeks to allow more time to negotiate changes while funding the rest of the government through the summer. The Department of justice has announced two more arrests tied to an anti ICE protest that disrupted a church service in St. Paul. A grand jury in Minnesota has now indicted nine people on federal charges of conspiracy and interfering with the First Amendment rights of worshippers. The Justice Department says the group, including former CNN anchor Don Lemon, entered the city's church during worship on January 18th and interfered with people's right to worship. Attorney General Pam Bundy.

[Charles Shapiro]

Parishioners were blocked from exiting the church. Don Lemon on video blocked one of them, screaming, yelling at the pastor. That's illegal in this country. When we say God bless America, we mean it. We're going to protect America. And if you do that in any house of worship in this country, we're going to find you, we're going to indict you and I'm going to prosecute you.

[Kent Covington]

Lemon says he was only documenting the protest and was not a part of the group that disrupted the service. Authorities say protesters targeted the church because its pastor also works with ice in the St. Paul area. President Trump says the United States and India have struck a trade deal to cut US Tariffs on Indian goods. World's Benjamin Icker has more.

[Charles Shapiro]

The president announced an agreement to slash those tariffs from 50% to 18%, effective immediately.

[Benjamin Eicher]

He said that India critically has agreed to stop buying Russian oil.

[Charles Shapiro]

Trump said on social media that the deal, his words, will help end the war in Ukraine, which is taking place right now with thousands of people dying each and every week, end quote. India will also increase purchases of US Products and lower its own tariffs on US Goods.

[Benjamin Eicher]

For World I'm Benjamin Eicher.

[Kent Covington]

Another round of talks are set for this week aimed at ending Russia's invasion of Ukraine. National commander Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says delegations from both Ukraine and Russia are scheduled to hold trilateral talks with the United States on Wednesday or Thursday in the United Arab Emirates. For his part, President Trump again told reporters that he lobbied Vladimir Putin to stop Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities during the current cold snap.

[Charles Shapiro]

And Ukraine's a very cold country. It's much colder than us. It's colder than they say. On average, it's Canada or colder. And on top of that, they have a tremendous cold wave. And I asked him if he wouldn't shoot for a period of one week, no missiles going into Kiev or any other towns. And he's agreed to do it. So it's something.

[Kent Covington]

But it was a different picture. In Ukraine, firefighters and other first responders worked at the scene of an overnight Russian drone strike in the city of Cherkosa yesterday. Regional officials say civilian infrastructure as well as homes and cars were hit. Four people were injured. Communities across the US Are still digging out following multiple powerful winter storms that swept across dozens of states. The severe weather has been blamed for more than 100 deaths nationwide, including in New York City, where Mayor Zoram Mamdani.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Told reporters 16 of our fellow New.

[Charles Shapiro]

Yorkers have passed away outside during this brutal stretch of cold. In 13 of these cases, preliminary findings indicate that hypothermia played a role.

[Kent Covington]

Meantime, in North Carolina, residents are digging out from a foot or more of snow. And Florida farmers need their frozen plants to thaw before they can assess the damage. Sub freezing weather returned last night across many eastern states and more than 70,000 homes and businesses in Mississippi and Tennessee have started the second week without power. I'm Kent Covington. And still ahead, the US Defends progress made in Venezuela. But plus the battle over gender ideology hits the daughters of the American Revolution. This is the World and Everything in It.

[Nick Eicher]

It's Tuesday 3rd February. Glad to have you along for today's edition of the World and Everything In It. Good morning, I'm Nick Iger.

[Mary Reichardt]

And I'm Mary Reichard. First up, Venezuela's future. Since the US Removed President Nicolas Maduro from power, the country has released more than 300 political prisoners.

[Nick Eicher]

But with former vice president and Maduro ally Delsey Rodriguez now in charge, the questions concern long term stabilization. Last week, Secretary of State Marco Rubio appeared before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He defended US Progress in Venezuela and stressed the need for patience.

[Marco Rubio]

And so objective number one was stability. In the aftermath of the removal of Maduro, the concern was what happens in Venezuela? Is there civil war? Do the different factions start going at each other? Are a million people crossing the border into Colombia? All of that has been avoided.

[Mary Reichardt]

Senator Jean Shaheen expressed concern about reports that Rodriguez is involved in drug trafficking. Rubio answered that those reports are not confirmed, but that if they are true, the US does not intend to leave.

[Marco Rubio]

A corrupt system in, in the transition and stabilization phase. We are just acknowledging reality and that is you have to work with the people that are in charge of the elements of government.

[Nick Eicher]

Other senators criticized the administration for not immediately installing opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. But Rubio maintains she doesn't yet have the support needed to lead the country effectively.

[Marco Rubio]

Whether we like it or not, the elements of control in that country, the people with the guns, the people that control the guns and the institutions of government there are, are in the hands of this regime.

[Nick Eicher]

He says the goal is to help Venezuela become so stable that someone without ties to crime, someone like Machado, can lead. The committee pressed Rubio on how long a transition would take. He had no timeline, but said the country would increasingly become better than under Maduro.

[Marco Rubio]

I get it, we all want like something immediately. But this is not a frozen dinner you put in a microwave and in two and a half minutes it comes out ready to eat.

[Mary Reichardt]

Rubio pointed out evidence of progress. The opening of Venezuelan oil to private investments and plans to create a U. S led banking and audit system.

[Marco Rubio]

It probably doesn't go far enough to attract sufficient investment, but it's a big step from where they were three weeks ago.

[Mary Reichardt]

More now on Venezuela from our producer, Lindsay Mast.

[Lindsay Mast]

Thanks, Mary the corruption in the Venezuelan government has gone on for decades now, and it's complex. To help make sense of it, I called up Charles Shapiro. He held numerous senior positions at the U.S. department of State, including Ambassador to Venezuela under President George W. Bush. He was also principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for the Western Hemisphere and Coordinator for Cuban Affairs. He joins us now to talk about what comes next for Venezuela. Ambassador Shapiro, good morning.

[Charles Shapiro]

Good morning, Lindsey.

[Lindsay Mast]

Let's start with where you were when you heard that the US had gone in and taken out Nicolas Maduro. What was your reaction?

[Charles Shapiro]

I was asleep and I started getting phone calls, actually, from Al Jazeera and Sky News in London wanting me to appear and tell them what was happening. And I had no idea what was happening. It was, you know, in the wee hours of Saturday morning. So I was surprised. My assumption was that we would put more and more and more pressure on Maduro and get him to leave, not actually take the next step and actually, you know, go in with troops and airplanes and Special Forces and grab him and Celia Flores and bring them out.

[Lindsay Mast]

As you prepared to appear and were formulating your initial thoughts, what was going through your head?

[Charles Shapiro]

It was so obvious so quickly how delighted Venezuelans in Venezuela and outside of Venezuela were. I mean, they were surprised. They were delighted. They were celebrating, celebrating more outside of Venezuela than inside because Maduro's police were still arresting people inside Venezuela. So, I mean, it was interesting what was going on, and then surprised that it ended where it did. In other words, that we, the United States, took out Maduro and the first lady, who's a member of Congress in her own right, but left everybody else in place. And that just surprised me no end and still does, by the way, because the people in place, particularly the individuals who are the Minister of National Security, which would be equivalent of Homeland Security secretary, and the Minister of Defense are like bad guys who are as bad as Maduro. So if Maduro's bad enough to take him out, why do you leave these two guys in place and leave them in charge of the police and the military so that if you're going to repress people, that's who's going to do it.

[Lindsay Mast]

I know you've said that in removing Maduro and supporting then Delsey Rodriguez, that the US has chosen stability over democracy, I believe was the term that you used. Can you walk us through what are the risks there?

[Charles Shapiro]

In the short term, I think it's okay. But you've got the same police and the same military maintaining order. And for the first week after January 3rd they continue to arrest reporters, arrest people who, you know, stop people on the streets and check their telephones to see what kind of messages they had on it. You know, the forces of repression continue to repress.

[Lindsay Mast]

So, long term, what do you see?

[Charles Shapiro]

The idea that all this is going to go well in running a government in a country the size of Texas with 30 million people, and I've lived there for years, I know things don't go well there. But you overlay that on top of a country where people don't trust people who are not on their team, who expect the worst of each other because they've been receiving the worst of each other for 25 years. And so overlay that on top of it.

[Lindsay Mast]

Secretary of State Rubio had a long discussion about this. He says this is a phased process. How do you react to that? Do you think the US has the stamina to do that?

[Charles Shapiro]

That's a great question. I mean, because that's the one everybody's wrestling with, and it's the one Venezuelans themselves are wrestling with. At least Rubio mentioned democracy, because when Trump talks about Venezuela, he talks about oil. So it's the phasing in. And how do you phase it in? And how quickly do you phase it in? Some of it's pretty basic. The five person commission that runs elections in the country is controlled by Maduro's allies. So you would have to, you know, you can't have an election if those guys are in charge of the election. You need to replace them. To get to a democracy, you've got to have police and military that the public have faith in. The courts are controlled by Maduro loyalists. You would need to replace all the Supreme Court justices and the lower courts as well. Maybe not all of them, but, you know, you have to set up a process to decide who needs to go and who needs to stay. And this is like the headachiest headache of all is the constitution of Venezuela was written by Hugo Chavez shortly after Chavez was elected president. He became president in 1999. They wrote a new constitution the way that you would go to a seamstress and have a dress made for you. I mean, it was made to order so that the sleeves fit Chavez just right. I mean, literally a constitution written for Hugo Chavez. They need to call the statesmen and women and write a new constitution for the country. And just think about that, how big a task that is.

[Lindsay Mast]

Oh, oh, it would be massive. So what else does the US need to be mindful of with this regime change?

[Charles Shapiro]

What the Trump administration is trying to avoid is what we did in Iraq where we abolished the military and the police, and then there was no military or police and there was huge confusion and chaos as a result. And so they're trying to avoid that. That's understandable. But how do you manage a country using the same people who've been imposing repressive law for 25 years are still in charge? How long do you leave them in charge? It makes the gardenian not look easy.

[Lindsay Mast]

Charles Shapiro is former U.S. ambassador to Venezuela. Ambassador Shapiro, thank you so much for your time.

[Charles Shapiro]

Thanks, Lindsay. I appreciate it. This was fun.

[Mary Reichardt]

Coming next on THE WORLD and everything in it, Daughters of the American Revolution and gender ideology. When DAR, the Daughters of the American Revolution, was founded in 1890, an applicant had to prove she was a direct descendant of either a patriot or someone who provided aid to a patriot. And of course, she had to be female.

[Nick Eicher]

But that second requirement has now been written out, leaving behind a remnant fighting to preserve the organization's history. Here is World's Myrna Brown.

[Laura McDonald]

Laura McDonald loves the founding story of the DAR. She says it matters because the organization exists in the first place. After women were barred from Sons of.

[Myrna Brown]

The American Revolution, the Sons formed their organization in 1889. And when the women wanted to be a part of that, they were told no, because you're not a man and you're not a son. Well, the women decided that they would form their own then, the Daughters of the American Revolution. So there is.

[Laura McDonald]

In 2023, she was preparing to give a talk about the DAR for her local Rotary Club in Texas, planning to highlight that very origin story, but had second thoughts.

[Myrna Brown]

I was going to mess with the men in the audience and say, sorry, fellas, the DAR is for women only. And as soon as I was about to type those words out, I thought about the former health secretary.

[Laura McDonald]

She was thinking about the man known as Rachel Levine, the assistant health secretary in the Biden administration, who presented himself as a woman.

[Myrna Brown]

And I thought, what are we going to do when he or somebody like him in a very prominent position decides that he wants to join the DAR?

[Laura McDonald]

McDonnell had no idea the question of who qualifies for membership had already been broached, debated and voted on.

[Myrna Brown]

Good morning.

[Laura McDonald]

Audio from Dar's 132nd Continental Congress in Washington, where the vote took place. McDonnell did not attend the meeting. Her mother did.

[Myrna Brown]

She left feeling uneasy and confused about what happened. Of course, she did not vote for the amendment.

[Laura McDonald]

The amendment changed the organization's bylaws to prohibit discrimination against otherwise eligible applicants, including on the basis of sexual orientation. Her mother's uneasiness prompted McDonald to find the recording of the meeting. She's listened to it over and over, trying to make sense of what happened that day. In 2020, NSDAR and its chapters may not discriminate against an eligible applicant based on race, religion, sexual orientation. First, a motion to amend an article that had been part of the organization's bylaws for more than a century. Then a discussion led by the President General.

[Myrna Brown]

Is there any debate?

[Laura McDonald]

Jennifer Meese, a delegate from Pennsylvania, was first at the the microphone with the.

[Milton LaSalle]

Proposed change in wording to the bylaw. Would our chapters be able to still vote not to admit into our chapter a person whose birth certificate has been.

[Charles Shapiro]

Altered by their state to indicate they.

[Milton LaSalle]

Are female even though they were born a male?

[Charles Shapiro]

If a.

[Myrna Brown]

If a person.

[Charles Shapiro]

If a person's birth certificate, certified birth certificate states female, you must, they're eligible for membership.

[Laura McDonald]

Judy Lindsey from Wyoming also spoke against the change. I think the Daughters of the American Revolution should be able to define what a woman is scientifically with two X chromosomes, not one with an X and a Y. But the majority of delegates, like Mary Hayes from New Mexico, supported the amendment.

[Milton LaSalle]

The legal counsel has strongly advised this by law because currently we're vague.

[Charles Shapiro]

This 501C3 designation by the IRS would be revoked.

[Milton LaSalle]

We would be revoked if we discriminate against protected individuals.

[Charles Shapiro]

And that dar's history of past discrimination would be taken into account when evaluating current discrimination.

[Laura McDonald]

The amendment passed allowing men membership into the Daughters of the American revolution, there.

[Charles Shapiro]

Being 2/3 in the affirmative. The amendment is adopted and the bylaw is amended as specified.

[Laura McDonald]

Laura McDonald says she later questioned DAR leaders about conflating the organization's past racial discrimination with so called trans discrimination.

[Myrna Brown]

They try to liken it to discrimination against black women, which to me is offensive to try to compare men who claim to be women to black women.

[Laura McDonald]

She also questioned the organization's legal rationale.

[Myrna Brown]

When we try to dig a little deeper and say, okay, well who was the legal counsel and what was their advice? That's when we get absolutely no answers.

[Laura McDonald]

World also reached out to the current President General of the organization, but no one responded. So we contacted Randall Wanger, chief counsel for the Independence Law center in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

[Mary Reichardt]

An organization like the Daughters of the American Revolution is not at risk of losing tax exempt status by refusing membership to men, even if those men identify as women.

[Laura McDonald]

Wenger says because the DAR was founded as a sex separated organization, it has legal protections that allow it to limit membership accordingly. He says Organizations that have lost tax exemption took extreme positions on public policy.

[Mary Reichardt]

But women's groups, especially those involved in expression on women's issues, are not contrary to public policy.

[Laura McDonald]

Since that vote three years ago, McDonnell has been on a mission.

[Myrna Brown]

We have a Facebook group called Daughters advocating for restoration.

[Laura McDonald]

McDonnell says she's tried multiple times to get the national bylaws amended. Each failed effort has been costly.

[Myrna Brown]

We have essentially been accused of being hateful and bigoted and, you know, spreading vitriol.

[Laura McDonald]

But In August of 2025, McDonnell made a discovery. 30 chapters in 10 states can compel the president General.

[Myrna Brown]

We will vote on a resolution that will define a woman.

[Laura McDonald]

McDonnell says even if this effort fails.

[Myrna Brown]

My faith rests in Jesus Christ, and all of this is in service to him ultimately.

[Laura McDonald]

Out of nearly 3,000 DAR chapters nationwide, McDonnell says 38 have so far joined the call for a special meeting. It's scheduled for October in Washington. But she does not expect the president General to confirm it any sooner than the bylaws require in September. Reporting for World, I'm Myrna Brown.

[Kent Covington]

Additional support comes from Free Lutheran Bible College, grounding students in the word of God for life, in Jesus on campus and in person in Plymouth, Minnesota. Flbc Edu World from B and H Academic. Their new resource, God and Country, explores faith and national identity. 40% off lifeway.com godandcountry and from ambassadors Impact Network, connecting entrepreneurs with Christian investors for for capital and spiritual support. Ambassadorsimpact.com.

[Nick Eicher]

Before sunrise in western Pennsylvania yesterday. Yep. Tens of thousands made the trip, many for the first time.

[Myrna Brown]

All.

[Nick Eicher]

All of them waiting for a forecast.

[Charles Shapiro]

Six more weeks of winter.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, most of the crowd took it in stride.

[Charles Shapiro]

Six more weeks of winter, unfortunately.

[Benjamin Eicher]

But crowdhawk saying.

[Charles Shapiro]

I mean, tradition is everything. I mean to be here at 2 in the morning with everybody. Unreal. Yeah, Truly unreal.

[Nick Eicher]

Unreal. I think that's right. Because for all the pageantry, the record shows Punxsutawney Phil gets it right about a third of the time. And he is not the lone weather rodent, just the most famous. More than 70 fellow groundhog prognosticators weighed in. A quick survey found just over half agreed with Phil. The others did not. So about that six weeks, let's just say confidence high, consensus optional. It's the world and everything in it. Today is Tuesday, February 3rd. Thank you for turning to World Radio to help start your day. Good morning. I'm Nick Iger.

[Mary Reichardt]

And I'm Mary Reichard. Coming next on the World and everything in it. Going to church. US church attendance has dropped steeply over the past 50 years. Back in the 1970s, more than two in five Americans said they went to church each week. Today, that number is closer to 1 in 5among Gen Z.

[Nick Eicher]

Every successive generation seems to be less.

[Charles Shapiro]

Inclined to go to a house of.

[Kent Covington]

Worship compared to the prior one.

[Mary Reichardt]

That's Ryan Burge, a political scientist and former pastor who keeps a close eye on religious trends. He says the rate of decline has slowed lately, but there's no sign of numbers bouncing back yet.

[Nick Eicher]

With fewer young people filling the pews, thousands of American churches are on the brink of extinction, particularly in parts of the US where the population is already falling. World's Grace Snell traveled to one of these communities and brings us the story of one small church still surviving.

[Milton LaSalle]

On a frigid Sunday morning in upstate New York, a small congregation stands singing about the the great big love of God. Calcium Community Church has stood on this corner since 1853. It's weathered a lot over the years. Leadership, departures, dwindling membership and tightening budgets. Today, only about 30 to 35 people attend regularly. Calcium exists in a fragile tension, drawing in enough members and money for today but lacking a substantial safety net for tomorrow. It's like many other small, historic churches in that way.

[Charles Shapiro]

You know, I thought about this.

[Milton LaSalle]

Still, folks here don't let fear of the future keep them from caring for each other like family and chipping in to keep the lights on and the doors open.

[Charles Shapiro]

This is a world where we face a lot of problems. That's just the way it is. A sin, cursed world. What do we expect?

[Milton LaSalle]

Milton LaSalle is Calcium's pastor, and he first started attending here in the 1950s. He remembers getting saved as a 10 year old after his Sunday school teacher gave a lesson on the Rapture.

[Charles Shapiro]

I realized that I had never asked Jesus Christ to be my savior. I had just kind of taken it for granted.

[Milton LaSalle]

Six decades later, LaSalle heard they needed a preacher and stepped in to pastor his childhood church. Calcium looked a lot different from when he was a boy.

[Charles Shapiro]

When I got here eight years ago, I think everybody here was probably over 50.

[Milton LaSalle]

And it wasn't just calcium. LaSalle hears more and more pastors talking about the generational drop off.

[Charles Shapiro]

The younger generation as a whole aren't as spiritually interested anymore.

[Milton LaSalle]

Plenty of neighboring churches haven't survived that trend, but here at Calcium, they've managed to add a few younger members recently.

[Nick Eicher]

Thank you.

[Charles Shapiro]

You may be seated.

[Milton LaSalle]

A few minutes into the service, lasalle dismisses the children for Sunday school. Three kids scamper off Two teachers follow right behind. Normally they have a few more students, but today numbers are low due to a winter storm warning. In a basement classroom, a space heater works overtime to ward off the cold. Here, Ruthie Rafus pupils are busy cutting and coloring paper sheep. Rafus has been teaching Sunday school here for almost 30 years, and she says her classes have been steadily shrinking over the past decade.

[Laura McDonald]

The younger people now just don't feel like it's that important. I think they've seen a lot of things that made them feel like, well, I don't think I really have to go to church to learn this. I can read my Bible at home. I can pray at home.

[Milton LaSalle]

Rafa says that breaks her heart. She knows many seeds of faith first take root in Sunday school. And she remembers what this church was like when it was overflowing with kids. Sponsoring bowling nights, camping trips, car washes, church lock ins.

[Laura McDonald]

This is back in the day. These pictures here, that was my assistant, this is my daughter and I was doing Sunday school.

[Milton LaSalle]

Rafus gestures to the concrete hallway walls. Here. She's taped photos of her Sunday school classes over the years.

[Laura McDonald]

Yes, she had a baby. She's a policeman now in South Carolina.

[Milton LaSalle]

Her oldest students are approaching their 40s now. I guess the first function will be back upstairs. The congregation has shifted its attention to the annual budget. Just a few years ago, a local news station reported Calcium Community Church was on the brink of closing, citing budget concerns and dwindling post pandemic membership. But after that headline, a flow of donations and a few new members kept the church afloat.

[Charles Shapiro]

Our budget is going to generally be the same as it was last year.

[Laura McDonald]

A bare bound budget.

[Milton LaSalle]

A deacon raises his hand.

[Charles Shapiro]

It seems like with everything going up, it seems impossible that we can make ends meet again this year.

[Milton LaSalle]

But at least for this year, the treasurer says things are looking alright.

[Charles Shapiro]

All those in favor of accepting this budget as presented for the upcoming year, they say happy.

[Milton LaSalle]

The budget passes unanimously. Inside the fellowship room, members chat and laugh like it's a family reunion. LaSalle says church numbers still fluctuate, especially as older members die or retire and move south. But he doesn't lose sleep over that.

[Charles Shapiro]

When they leave, the Lord brings somebody else in.

[Lindsay Mast]

He's been good, very good, la Salle.

[Milton LaSalle]

Says, because he's just grateful to be here today, trusting in a God who doesn't despise the little things. Reporting for world, I'm Grace Snell in Calcium, New York.

[Mary Reichardt]

Good morning. This is the World and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio, I'm Mary.

[Nick Eicher]

Reichard and I'm Nick Eicher. Next up, empathy untethered. Former first lady Hillary Clinton wrote an essay this month in the Atlantic magazine singling out world commentator Joe Rigney by name for objecting to a sermon delivered at the National Cathedral on Inauguration Day. Here is part of it by Episcopal Bishop Marianne Edgar Buddy in the name.

[Milton LaSalle]

Of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared. Now there are gay, lesbian and transgender children in Democratic Republicans and independent families, some who fear for their lives.

[Mary Reichardt]

Clinton called Rigney an extremist pastor, citing his book Leadership and the Sin of Empathy. She accused him, along with Ali Beth Stuckey, of waging what she called a war on empathy and rejecting Christian virtues like mercy and compassion.

[Nick Eicher]

But Rigney says that charge misunderstands his argument. Here now is his response.

[Benjamin Eicher]

When I read an article by Hillary Clinton accusing me of being a bad Christian for waging a war on empathy, I realized it was an opportunity to clarify something important. Set aside for the moment whether Hillary Clinton is the right person to lecture anyone on ethics, morality or what it means to be a Christian. But conservative Christians are not against compassion, mercy or dignity. Quite the opposite. The question is how our love of our neighbors is ordered, governed and directed. In today's debates, empathy has taken on a very specific meaning. Empathy now means emotional identification, feeling what other people feel and treating that feeling as a moral authority. That is where problems begin. One of the central arguments I've made is that empathy, untethered from truth and justice, becomes highly selective. It acts like a spotlight. It highlights the suffering of some people while leaving others entirely in the dark. In Clinton's article, we are urged to feel empathy for families afraid of immigration enforcement. But you'll find no empathy for families whose loved ones were raped or murdered by people released into the country by so called empathetic policies. Empathy pulls our attention in one direction and trains us to look away from others. And this selectivity matters because empathy does not simply describe suffering. It directs moral outrage. And once outrage is activated, empathy often functions as a veto over law, reason and responsibility. If someone is afraid, that just means the rules must no longer apply. If enforcement causes distress, that means it's cruel and needs to be abandoned. If order requires boundaries, that means they're unloving and need to be torn down. But untethered feelings cannot be the standard for justice. Christianity has never taught that compassion means suspending moral judgment. Lawbreakers should fear law enforcement. That's not heartless. It means we recognize that love for neighbor requires order, limits and truth. And so throughout these debates, empathy is constantly contrasted with cruelty. But one of the most uncomfortable realities is that calls for empathy often mask actual cruelty. In the name of empathy, you can release repeat violent offenders back into communities. You can excuse policies that harm children. You can abandon the vulnerable to chaos and lawlessness. And all the while you can reassure yourself that you're the kind one because you feel deeply. But this is not biblical compassion. Biblical compassion is not sentimentality or emotional manipulation. It does not allow fear to override justice or guilt to override truth. It sees suffering clearly, but it also sees responsibility, consequence, and the common good. When empathy is elevated above all else, it becomes a tool of emotional pressure. It trains people to believe that resisting certain policies can make them bad Christians. It suggests that obedience to God must give way to obedience to feelings. That's not mercy. It's moral confusion. Weaponized empathy helped us to get into this mess. But biblical compassion, anchored in truth, governed by justice and strengthened by courage, is the only thing that will get us out. For World I'm Joe Rigney.

[Mary Reichardt]

Tomorrow, Hunter Baker is back for Washington Wednesday and extending hospitality to travelers. That and more tomorrow. I'm Mary Reaggers.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Icker. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires, the psalmist writes. I had said in my alarm, I am cut off from your sight. But you heard the voice of my pleas for mercy when I cried to you for help. Love the Lord all you his saints. The Lord preserves the faithful, but I abundantly repays the one who acts in pride. Be strong and let your heart take courage all you who wait for the Lord. Verses 22 through 24 of Psalm 31 go now in grace and peace.