3.24.25 Legal Docket on prisoner grievance rights, David Bahnsen traces the origin of Moneybeat, and History Book on the life of Jonathan Edwards

Summary

Podcast Summary: The World and Everything In It
Episode: 3.24.25
Release Date: March 24, 2025

---

I. Introduction

The World and Everything In It, hosted by WORLD Radio, delivers an in-depth exploration of current events, legal discussions, economic analyses, and historical narratives. In the March 24, 2025 episode, listeners are guided through critical topics including prisoner grievance rights, the evolution of the Moneybeat segment, and the life of Jonathan Edwards. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented throughout the episode.

---

II. News Segment: Prisoner Grievance Rights and the Trump Administration's Policies

A. Deportations Under the Alien Enemies Act

The episode opens with a discussion on the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport high-risk illegal immigrants, particularly members of foreign gangs. Steve Witkoff reports that Judge James Boasberg issued a temporary injunction against these deportations, citing legal concerns.

• Steve Witkoff [03:06]: "These radical judges who are undermining what President Trump is attempting to lawfully do to implement his policies, I think these judges are a threat to democracy."

B. Conflict with Judge James Boasberg

The administration accuses Judge Boasberg of overstepping his authority by blocking deportations, while Democrats defend the separation of powers, arguing that the judiciary is upholding constitutional checks.

• Jason Miller [03:06]: "These radical judges are a threat to democracy."

• Mike Waltz [03:27]: "Administration goes after the many judges and the many courts who are stopping the wild and illegal actions of this administration."

C. Accusations Between the Administration and the Judiciary

The Trump administration contends that federal judges, like Boasberg, are impeding executive actions necessary for national security, specifically targeting gang members designated as terrorists.

• Nick Eicher [07:39]: "The Trump administration says it's considering invoking state secrets privilege, using a national security rationale to avoid disclosing deeds details about the deportation flights."

D. Senate Dynamics and Democratic Responses

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer faces criticism from his party for reluctantly supporting a Republican-funded bill to avert a government shutdown, igniting tensions within the Democratic ranks.

• Chuck Schumer [04:44]: "When I cast my vote against a government shutdown that it would be a lot of controversy."

E. Impacts on Federal Courts and Potential State Secrets Privilege Invocation

The administration is reportedly deliberating invoking the state secrets privilege to prevent further judicial interference, a move Judge Boasberg has criticized as insufficient.

• Nick Eicher [08:15]: "They are trying to dictate policy from the president of the United States."

• Chief Justice John Roberts [09:32]: "Legal disagreements are handled in the usual appeals process, not through impeachment."

---

III. Legal Docket: US Supreme Court Cases on Prisoner Grievance Rights

A. Case Overview: Pertue v. Richards

The Supreme Court examines whether the exhaustion of administrative remedies in the prison grievance system should be determined by a judge or a jury. Thomas Pertue, a prison officer, is accused by Kyle Richards of sabotaging grievance filings.

• Nick Eicher [09:40]: "We'll hear argument next in case 2313: Pertue v. Richards."

B. Arguments Presented by Both Sides

Mary Reichard outlines the conflict between the prison administration's interpretation of grievance procedures and the inmate's right to a fair process.

• Mary Reichard [10:17]: "In the law, that is known as exhausting administrative remedies. That's been a federal requirement for almost 30 years."

C. Justices' Perspectives and Opinions

Justices are divided on whether the determination of grievance process violations should fall under judicial discretion or require a jury trial, reflecting broader concerns about procedural fairness versus judicial efficiency.

• Justice Elena Kagan [12:01]: "This is a threshold question, and judges can handle it."

• Justice Samuel Alito [12:43]: Echoes concerns about maintaining procedural integrity without overburdening the court system.

D. Potential Implications for the Prison Litigation Reform Act

A favorable ruling for Richards could undermine the Prison Litigation Reform Act, potentially opening avenues for increased litigation by inmates.

• Mary Reichard [14:07]: "Sherman for the prison, warned that a win for Richards would defeat the whole purpose of the Prison Litigation Reform Act."

---

IV. Monday Money Beat: Origin of Moneybeat and Interview with David Bonson

A. Origin Story Five Years Ago During the COVID-19 Crisis

Nick Eicher and Mike Waltz reflect on the inception of the Moneybeat segment, which emerged amidst the economic turmoil of March 2020 as the COVID-19 pandemic began impacting global markets.

• Mike Waltz [17:28]: "Five years ago, on that week, March 9, and then on that Thursday, March 12, both days, the market was down a couple thousand points."

B. Interview Highlights with David Bonson

David Bonson, financial analyst and founder of the Bonson Group, discusses the economic predictions during the early pandemic and the integration of Christian theology with economic principles.

1. Economic Impact Predictions

   • Mike Waltz [18:26]: "Do I think that the second quarter unemployment and GDP contraction is going to be just unbelievably bad? Of course."

2. Connection Between Economics and Christian Theology

   • Mike Waltz [19:39]: "There are folks who will disagree with things from time to time, and we obviously encourage that and try to interact with people around that."

   • Mike Waltz [23:48]: "I believe that history took a pivot at 2008, at the point of the financial crisis. The efficiency claims of free markets were called into question."

3. Evolution of Moneybeat Segment

   • Mike Waltz [25:33]: "I've been blessed over the last five years by finding out that there are so many others out there that want the same."

4. Future Outlook and Continued Need for Christian Economic Discourse

   • Mike Waltz [27:39]: "The need of the hour is a fully Christian message about human action."

C. Future Outlook

Bonson emphasizes the necessity for a Christian framework in economic discussions to promote human flourishing and moral integrity within market systems.

• Mike Waltz [29:38]: "I think the moral claims were not there. There was not a strong Christian witness to defend a market economy."

---

V. World History Book: The Life and Death of Jonathan Edwards

A. Edwards' Ministry and Role in the Great Awakening

Caleb Weley narrates the impactful life of Jonathan Edwards, a pivotal figure in the Great Awakening whose preaching and theological writings left a lasting legacy.

• Tom Homan [31:20]: "At 37, Edwards preaches powerfully during what will become known as the Great Awakening."

B. Career Path and Dismissal from Northampton Congregational Church

Despite his success, Edwards faced theological disagreements that led to his dismissal from a prominent church, prompting a move to Stockbridge, Massachusetts.

• Tom Homan [31:36]: "Edwards argues only professing Christians were eligible. His church believed it was open to any."

C. Appointment at Princeton University and Untimely Death

Edwards declined an invitation to lead Princeton University, choosing instead to continue his pastoral work until his untimely death following a smallpox inoculation.

• Tom Homan [32:41]: "Edwards decides to ask a group of fellow ministers how they think he should respond to Princeton."

• Ian Murray [34:03]: "It seems to be the will of God that I must shortly leave you."

D. Legacy and Theological Impact

Edwards' unwavering commitment to his faith and theology, even in the face of personal and professional challenges, underscores his enduring influence on American religious thought.

• Ian Murray [35:15]: "The Bible says, what is man? I give it to you. In Edwards' words, he says, man is a leaf, a leaf driven by the wind, poor dust, a shadow, and nothing."

---

VI. Conclusion

This episode of The World and Everything In It masterfully weaves together pressing legal debates, economic reflections grounded in Christian theology, and a historical portrayal of a significant religious figure. Through insightful discussions and expert analyses, the podcast provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of how legal frameworks, economic policies, and historical narratives intersect within the broader context of faith and societal development.

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Witkoff [03:06]: "These radical judges who are undermining what President Trump is attempting to lawfully do to implement his policies, I think these judges are a threat to democracy."

• Mike Waltz [19:39]: "I believe that history took a pivot at 2008, at the point of the financial crisis."

• Ian Murray [35:15]: "Man is a leaf, a leaf driven by the wind, poor dust, a shadow, and nothing."

---

For those seeking a rich blend of news, legal analysis, economic discourse, and historical insight—all grounded in a faith-based perspective—this episode of The World and Everything In It offers invaluable content.

Transcript

[Mary Reichard]

Good morning. If a prison official trashes a grievance filed by an inmate, who decides what to do about it? A judge or a jury?

[Kent Covington]

Call the warden in and say, hey, did you tear up the grievance? What happened here? You know, and they can make that determination. You don't need a jury to do that. Clogs up the federal court system.

[Nick Eicher]

Also today, the Monday money beat, the origin story, a regular segment born of a crash. And the world history book today, the death of one of America's greatest colonial pastors.

[Ian Murray]

If you take eternity out of Edwards life, you could read it as a story of little Success.

[Mary Reichard]

It's Monday, March 24th. This is the world and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio. I'm Mary Reichard.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.

[Mary Reichard]

Time now for the news with Kent Covington.

[Steve Witkoff]

Kent, Russian drone attacks killed at least seven people across Ukraine Sunday morning. The latest strikes came just hours before. American diplomats are set to meet separately with both Russian and Ukrainian leaders. In Saudi Arabia today, U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff.

[Kent Covington]

The agenda is stop the killing, stop the carnage. Let's end this thing. You can't end things without communicating with both sides, understanding what each of them need and then trying to bring them together.

[Steve Witkoff]

Negotiators will continue work on a limited cease fire related to energy targets that both sides have already agreed to in principle. And from there they hope to expand on that ceasefire. National Security Advisor Mike Waltz.

[Mike Waltz]

We're going to move to maritime. Both countries sit on the Black Sea.

[Tom Homan]

They have to trade in oil and.

[Mike Waltz]

Gas and grain to literally feed their people and others. That will be the next step.

[Steve Witkoff]

Steve Witkoff said he sat in on separate phone calls last week between President Trump and Presidents Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Vladimir Putin. He said both sides expressed a desire to work toward a lasting peace. Meantime, in the Middle East, a lasting peace in Gaza remains elusive. Witkoff said that earlier this month he believed that both Israel and Hamas had agreed on terms to renew an expired cease fire deal.

[Kent Covington]

I even thought we had an approval from Hamas. Maybe that's just me getting, getting, you know, duped. But I thought we were there and evidently we weren't. So this is on hamas.

[Steve Witkoff]

Yeah. The U.S. and Israeli leaders are reportedly set to hold talks this week about Iran's nuclear program. Axios reports a senior Israeli delegation is expected to visit the White House in the coming days. President Trump has given Iran two months to negotiate a new nuclear deal. Trump says he prefers diplomacy, but he has threatened military action if necessary. To prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. The Trump administration and many Republicans continue to take aim at federal judges blocking the president's agenda. Trump adviser Jason Miller I think that.

[Nick Eicher]

These radical judges who are undermining what President Trump is attempting to lawfully do to implement his policies, I think these judges are a threat to democracy.

[Steve Witkoff]

Miller charges that some judges are overstepping their constitutional authority, but Democrats say it is the White House that is not respecting the separation of powers. Congressman Jim Himes we see how this.

[Mike Waltz]

Administration goes after the many judges and the many courts who are stopping the.

[Nick Eicher]

Wild and illegal actions of this administration.

[Steve Witkoff]

The Trump administration has been locked in a high profile battle with District Court Judge James Boasberg. He placed a temporary injunction on President Trump's use of the rarely invoked Alien Enemies act to deport high risk illegal immigrants such as gang members, and he's demanding information on deportation flights already completed. Borders are Tom Homan spoke Sunday about a flight that he says was loaded with members of the Venezuelan gang Trende Iragua, or tda.

[Mike Waltz]

That plane was full of people designated as terrorists, number one. Number two, every every Venezuelan migrant on that flight was, was, was a TDA member.

[Steve Witkoff]

Based on Trump officials note that the president has formally declared certain foreign gangs as designated terrorist organizations and therefore they assert that the president has lawfully deported terrorists under the Alien Enemies act and that the judge is wrongfully interfering in US Foreign policy. Judge Boasberg has called the Trump administration's response to his demands woefully insufficient. Democrats in Washington are fighting over how best to fight President Trump's agenda. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer I knew.

[Mike Waltz]

When I cast my vote against a government shutdown that it would bethat there'd.

[Mary Reichard]

Be a lot of controversy.

[Mike Waltz]

And there was.

[Steve Witkoff]

Schumer earlier this month reluctantly backed a Republican authored funding bill to keep the government open. He said the alternative would have been worse. Democrats wanted language inserted to limit the authority of the Department of Government Efficiency, led by Elon Musk, to audit government spending. Some criticized Schumer for backing the funding bill, saying he surrendered the party's leverage. And the party's socialist wing now has launched a high profile campaign to ramp up the fight against Trump. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders I'm trying to make it clear that the American people are not going to sit idly by and allow Trump establish an oligarchic form of government where Musk and other billionaires are running our government. Sanders has launched what he's calling his Fighting Oligarchy tour with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez holding rallies in numerous states. A weak and frail Pope Francis has returned home to the Vatican from the hospital after a five week bout of pneumonia. Dr. Sergio Alferri says the pontiff survived a serious ordeal during his hospitalization.

[Mary Reichard]

The Holy Father clinical conditions presented two very critical episodes in which the Holy Father's life was in danger.

[Steve Witkoff]

The motorcade carrying the 88 year old Pope drove through the gates of Vatican City after a brief stop at St. Mary's Major Basilica where the Pope always goes to pray after a foreign visit. I'm Kent Covington. And still ahead, legal docket plus, the Monday money beat and the world history book. This is the world and everything in it.

[Nick Eicher]

It's the world and everything in it for this 24th day. We are so glad you've joined us today. Good morning. I'm Nick Iger.

[Mary Reichard]

And I'm Mary Reichert. It's time for legal docket. On Friday, Trump administration lawyers came before U.S. district Judge James Boasberg in a hearing. The issue was whether to extend a temporary block of deportations of what the White House calls Venezuelan gang members. The judge and leading Democrats are highly critical of the president's policies and his zeal in pursuing them. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

[Nick Eicher]

Donald Trump shows that he wishes to.

[Mike Waltz]

Violate the laws in many, many different ways.

[Mary Reichard]

Judge Boasberg criticized President Trump's lawyers as intemperate and disrespectful and possibly in violation of his orders. Additionally, he called the administration's use of the Alien Enemies act for deportations legally unfounded.

[Nick Eicher]

Tensions rose further as Judge Boasberg accused the government of possibly violating his order last weekend when the administration flew 238 to a Supermax prison in El Salvador. Government attorneys have until tomorrow to make a convincing argument that the administration did not violate his order. Against this backdrop, the administration is blasting the judge, accusing him of substituting his judgment for an elected president, keeping a campaign promise. Spokeswoman Caroline Levitt. They are trying to dictate policy from.

[Mike Waltz]

The president of the United States.

[Nick Eicher]

They are trying to clearly slow walk.

[Mike Waltz]

This administration's agenda and it's unacceptable.

[Nick Eicher]

Trump himself has laid into the judge. This is from an interview with Laura Ingraham of Fox News.

[Mike Waltz]

He's radical left. He was Obama appointed and he actually said we shouldn't be able to take.

[Kent Covington]

Criminals, killers, murderers, horrible, the worst people.

[Mike Waltz]

Gang members, gang leaders, that we shouldn't.

[Kent Covington]

Be allowed to take them out of our country.

[Nick Eicher]

The Trump administration says it's considering invoking state secrets privilege, using a national security rationale to avoid disclosing deeds details about the deportation flights. A sworn statement from a Justice Department attorney confirmed that cabinet level talks were ongoing about invoking the privilege.

[Mary Reichard]

But Judge Boasberg has called that woefully insufficient and has said tomorrow's hearing is where the administration will have to present its argument on state secrets. That's in addition to its explanation why the White House believes it did not violate the order. Amid the back and forth and even the suggestion that the judge should face impeachment for overstepping his authority, Chief Justice John Roberts issued a rare public statement. The chief wrote that legal disagreements are handled in the usual appeals process, not through impeachment.

[Nick Eicher]

All right, now let's jump into our case for today. The U.S. supreme Court hearing argument in a dispute between a prison and a prisoner.

[Kent Covington]

We'll hear argument next in case 2313.

[Mike Waltz]

24, Pertue v. Richards.

[Nick Eicher]

Richards, the prisoner Pertoo, an officer at the prison, Kyle Richards, used the prison grievance system to make claims against officer Thomas Pertue. He says Pertue harassed and intimidated him, then retaliated when Richards filed complaints. He says Pertue destroyed the paperwork and even threatened to kill him if he didn't stop filing grievances. But that grievance process is critical. Federal law requires all inmates to go through a prison's grievance process before they can sue in court.

[Mary Reichard]

In the law, that is known as exhausting administrative remedies. That's been a federal requirement for almost 30 years. After Congress passed a measure aimed at preventing the abuse of the legal system by prisoners, then President Bill Clinton signed the Prison Litigation Reform Act. In 1996, the National Sheriff's association filed a friend of the court brief in support of the prison. Greg Champon served as its past president and is Now Sheriff of St. Charles Parish in Louisiana. I called him up to understand the background.

[Kent Covington]

So the courts were actually pleading for mercy to Congress. It wasn't so much sheriffs, because what's happening as you know, you know, inmates have a lot of time on their hands. And there are some inmates that, you know, they love just filing lawsuits. And prior to that time, some of them, that's all they do. They love just putting a monkey wrench into the system and just filing suit after suit over issues like, you know, breakfast was cold, some ridiculous things. And the federal courts, when they get those things, they have to dedicate, you know, a law clerk to it. A judge has to look at it. They can't just throw it away. I think the largest part of their dockets was. Were really nuisance inmate lawsuits. So it was actually the courts who were asking for some relief from that.

[Nick Eicher]

Sheriff Champagne says judges are well suited to decide the factual question in this instance.

[Kent Covington]

Why can't the federal judge, when he gets it, look at. Have an evidentiary hearing, which is what the fifth circuit and at least two other circuits do, and they can say, you know, call the warden in and say, hey, did you tear up the grievance? What happened here? You know, and they can make that determination. You don't need a jury to do that. Those are expensive. It's time consuming. Clogs up the federal court systems.

[Mary Reichard]

At the Supreme Court, Justice Elena Kagan pushed back on the argument that the judge ought to decide the matter and not the jury.

[Tom Homan]

I think if, like, the warden tears up your grievance papers, somebody is going.

[Nick Eicher]

To say that the exhaustion process wasn't available. And so then I think that the.

[Tom Homan]

Question is, okay, when that is the fact. That's the crucial fact. It should be the jury that decides that question, shouldn't it?

[Mary Reichard]

But Michigan solicitor general Ann Sherman countered, this is a threshold question, and judges can handle it.

[Nick Eicher]

Laurie McGill, the lawyer for the prisoner, pointed to what happens when prison officials sabotage the grievance procedures that renders the grievance process unavailable. Shouldn't a jury decide that then?

[Mary Reichard]

But Justice Samuel Alito echoed the same worries the prison litigation reform act meant to stop.

[Mike Waltz]

Suppose you have a prisoner who's serving.

[Nick Eicher]

A lengthy prison sentence and files a grievance, and the state says, you didn't exhaust. So the prisoner says, well, yeah, I did exhaust. I put the grievance in the box.

[Steve Witkoff]

Or I handed it to a guard.

[Nick Eicher]

So at a minimum, he gets a.

[Mike Waltz]

Trip to the courthouse.

[Nick Eicher]

He gets a trip out of.

[Mike Waltz]

Well, in our client's case, everything was.

[Steve Witkoff]

I'm not talking about your client.

[Kent Covington]

I'm talking about.

[Nick Eicher]

About other. Other prisoners who may want to take advantage of this.

[Mike Waltz]

I mean, I. I don't think so.

[Nick Eicher]

Then there's a genuine dispute of. Of material fact about whether he.

[Mike Waltz]

You know, is he telling the truth? Is he not telling the truth?

[Nick Eicher]

Inmate Richards has support from unexpected allies. The ACLU on the left and the Cato Institute on the right. Both of them filed friend of the court briefs in his favor.

[Mary Reichard]

I called up Cato's Mike Fox to explain the federal law as he sees it.

[Mike Waltz]

What it's, in effect, done is make it very, very difficult for people to.

[Tom Homan]

Actually bring claims forward. And, of course, you know, the framers intended juries of ordinary citizens to be adjudicators of disputes between citizens and their government.

[Mike Waltz]

And when a prisoner has a grievance.

[Tom Homan]

With the correctional facility that they're in, they are, you know, as a matter.

[Mike Waltz]

Of constitutional law, as a matter of.

[Tom Homan]

7Th amendment, entitled to a jury trial.

[Mary Reichard]

But what of the concerns about frivolous lawsuits clogging up the system?

[Tom Homan]

One person's constitutional rights are not contingent upon someone else potentially abusing the system. And while you do forfeit certain rights when you're incarcerated, you don't forfeit all of them.

[Mike Waltz]

And by the way, if they did.

[Tom Homan]

Have a meritless claim and it got.

[Mike Waltz]

In front of a jury, the jury will see it for what it is.

[Mary Reichard]

Sherman for the prison, warned that a win for Richards would defeat the whole purpose of the Prison Litigation Reform act and again open the floodgates of massive litigation. But Justice Sonia Sotomayor seeking seem to be spoiling for a fight by going outside the record before the court. And I've gone back 12 years and had our library and my clerk search.

[Mike Waltz]

Second Circuit opinions, and in those 12.

[Mary Reichard]

Years, only five cases has there been a litigation over whether or not there.

[Mike Waltz]

Was exhaustion, because only five cases was.

[Mary Reichard]

It interwound with the merits.

[Mike Waltz]

I don't see where the floodgates have come up.

[Nick Eicher]

But this case is not the second circuit. It's the fifth, and it's 2025, not nearly 30 years ago when Congress updated the law. So the question remains, is exhaustion a procedural step for judges, or is it a fundamental question of fairness that belongs to a jury? We will know most likely by the end of June.

[Mary Reichard]

Finally, the justices handed down two opinions. On Friday, the court unanimously ruled in favor of Patrick Daley Thompson, former Chicago alderman and member of the Daley family. He'd been indicted for making allegedly false statements to the government about bank loans. The issue was whether a federal law criminalizing false statements applies to misleading but technically true statements. The justices held that the law requires statements to be outright false, not just misleading. So Thompson returns to lower court to reconsider his conviction in light of this narrower interpretation of the law.

[Nick Eicher]

And finally, the court ruled 7 to 2 against a former associate of the Genovese crime family, Salvatore Deligati, better known by the mob nickname Fat Sal. He'd given a loaded gun to others to kill a suspected informant, and he was charged under a law that mandates extra prison time for using a gun during a violent crime. Delegati tried making the case that supplying a gun isn't the violent crime, it's the act of shooting someone to death. That is the violence. But the Supreme Court rejected the argument and said Delegati's action still involves the use of physical force. So lower court is affirmed and Fatsal stays in prison, including extra time for the use of a gun during a crime of violence.

[Mary Reichard]

And that's this week's legal docket.

[Steve Witkoff]

Additional support comes from Letourneau University, the Christian Polytechnic university.

[Nick Eicher]

More @LETU.edu.

[Mary Reichard]

Coming up next on THE WORLD and everything in it, the Monday MONEY beat.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, it has been five years that we featured David Bonson here, five excellent years, I would say. And of course, we look forward to many more, Lord willing. But today, let's have a look back on this fifth anniversary at what started all this, and you may remember it. It grew out of an economic crisis, a then a set of policy choices that followed. So let's turn the clock back to March 23rd. It was a Monday morning. The year was 2020. All right. Well, we'll say it again. Worst week since the financial crisis of 2008. All of the major indexes on the New York Stock Exchange down for the week between 12 and more than 17%. Now, it's not just the capital markets. When people are on lockdown, that means major sectors of the economy that they depend on are Locke. And so I'd like to turn back to David Bonson. Thank you for giving us some time. Good morning.

[Mike Waltz]

Hey, good morning.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, I saw an estimate, David. We're looking at possibly 5 million job losses this year and up to $1.5 trillion lost in economic output. These are just estimates, of course. But what is your sense of the future assuming that this passes? Do we bounce back to normal or do you see economic life just being vastly different because of the shock?

[Mike Waltz]

Well, I would be really careful of anyone who gives too confident of an answer because of the variables that exist out there. Do I think that the second quarter unemployment and GDP contraction is going to be just unbelievably bad? Of course, what I do believe is the sort of base case, not as bad as it could very well get and not as good as it could very well get is that you will see approximately a trillion and a half dollars of economic output lost. Third quarter and fourth quarter of this year are so much more important right now than the second quarter because the second quarter we know is basically going to be lost.

[Nick Eicher]

Let me just give you the freedom to say at this moment any message that you think is important for each listener to hear.

[Mike Waltz]

The last thing I would say is that through this uncertainty there is one certainty out there, and that is that God is in control and that our country has been through worse and we will come out of this thing okay as well. I don't know when, I don't know how, but I do know that in those periods of most uncertainty, when one looks to the lesson of history and the hope of the future, they should derive optimism and we will get through this.

[Nick Eicher]

Financial analyst David Bonson, God bless you. Thank you for your time.

[Mike Waltz]

Thank you for having me.

[Nick Eicher]

Looking to lessons of history and to the hope of the future, that should give you optimism that we will get through this. Indeed we did. That was a truncated bit, five years old, just to give you a sense. And it's really something to go back and listen to. I'll put a link in the transcript today to the segment. You can look at it and listen for yourself. But five years on, David going strong still, it's been great.

[Mike Waltz]

One of the things I love telling people, when I run into folks who listen to world and everything in it all over the country, it now seems that I'm running into world listeners everywhere I go, which is a lot of fun. But a lot of people don't know that there was never a time that we formalized me doing this. We just started doing it five years ago, and here we are still going.

[Nick Eicher]

Just the force of habit, I guess. You know, regular in practice, but never in design, right?

[Mike Waltz]

Yeah, that's right. I love telling the story and there's oftentimes I wonder if you even remember it, but I imagine both of us do. Five years ago now, of course, is the anniversary of the moment at which Covid was really becoming a matter of public awareness. And it was into markets, which is what caused you to reach out to me to find out, you know, at the week of March 9, on that Monday, March 9, and then on that Thursday, March 12, both days, the market was down a couple thousand points and we hadn't had lockdowns yet. There hadn't even been a fatality yet, or at least not one we knew was related to Covid. We would later find out some nursing home deaths had already started. But on that week, there was a famous Wednesday night where all at once it was announced that Tom Hanks had been diagnosed with coronavirus. They canceled the remainder of the NBA season. And then more famously, President Trump went from the Oval Office and addressed the nation and announced that there'd be no more travel for people from Europe into the country or from Asia. And so then the market responded by dropping violently. And it was beginning to Feel like, okay, something here is going on. And that's when you had asked me to come on and talk about the market impact.

[Nick Eicher]

Yeah.

[Mike Waltz]

And I did it. And I think your intent at the time was a one time guest deal, and that's certainly how I took it. But then the next week, Nick, is when lockdown started.

[Nick Eicher]

Yeah.

[Mike Waltz]

And on Monday, March 16, we set the third record in six days of the worst market day since Black Monday of 1987. That one would hold. The market would be down 3,000 points, about 13% in one day. And then throughout that week, the speculation began. Are we looking at millions of people that are going to die? Are we looking at permanently shut down economy? What's going on? And so I came on again to talk about it, and I think that was the last time you asked me to come on to talk about the COVID market. From there, we just came on every single week and here we are five years later.

[Nick Eicher]

So, David, talk about what you see from your vantage point. You travel a lot, you speak to crowds. Just how it seems so consistent what you're hearing, consistent with what we're hearing, that there is a real hunger for good, reliable economic news and how that relates to a theology of human flourishing. Maybe that's too big of a question there, but.

[Mike Waltz]

No, no, no, it's not. It's really important because, you know, I guess it would be up to you and up to listeners to maybe some of the things I say encourage them at times. But for me, I am incredibly encouraged by the fact that there are people who reach out all the time to say, I've never been that interested in economics, I've never been interested in markets, but I now, as a person of faith, want to understand this more. And of course, it's my heart's desire to do this in the context of a biblical worldview. It's the cause I've long devoted my life to. So I believe there are specifically Christian ways of thinking about the economy. And the fact that on this podcast there are such serious believers that are continually saying they want to learn more, hear more, and they find something about it animating it may be different things for different people. And you know, there are folks who will disagree with things from time to time, and we obviously encourage that and try to, to interact with people around that. But I'm very, very encouraged by how much I hear from people of our, the world faith community that are wanting to understand economics more. I think we need more people to do so. I think that there is an intense need to not take economics for granted. Finance, business markets, entrepreneurialship, these things fit within the domain of the Kingdom of God and therefore we have specifically Christian things to say about them. And I'm really blessed over the last five years by finding out that there are so many others out there that want the same.

[Nick Eicher]

And you've always brought things back around to first principles. David, whether we may be talking about the importance of capital formation or driving productivity or just simply a theology of work, how would you say that the last five years have strengthened your conviction around these things or even tested them?

[Mike Waltz]

There's been ample opportunity to have those convictions tested. And in fact, out of the last five years, it motivated became the impetus for me to write two different books, both of which I wanted to write before five years ago, but neither one of which I had plans to write. And that impetus came first. There's no free lunch 250 economic truths where I realized in 2021 there was a huge need for us to reconnect our belief in free markets to the human person and to God's design for the human experience. What it was God wanted for creation. And that, that being the story of economics that we needed to reconnect these things and start to tell the story of how liberty, free markets and virtue morality need to coexist, that these things are not separate from one another and that our economic vision is one of synthesizing liberty and virtue. And then of course, the book on Work Full Time, that also just became a huge passion for me around the idea of reconnecting purpose to work and work being this verb of economics that things get done because humans work and we work because that was God's created design for our life. Both of these things are economic messages. Both came about in the last five years. And you know, Nick, both of them are things you and I have gotten to talk about here week by week, over and over again.

[Nick Eicher]

So we've had a chance here to look back. Let's do some looking ahead. David, what do you think the next several years will look like based on what you've been able to accomplish here over the past five?

[Mike Waltz]

I think that there's a very intense need for people to defend a market economy along the lines of a Christian worldview, to not merely defend it because we think it will lower our taxes, we think it will create a better result. It's a more efficient way of allocating resources. I do think it's a more efficient way of allocating resources. I do think it creates better results. But I think it needs to be connected to a moral message, a spiritual message, one that is found in the creational truths of scripture. And so that is the great passion I have. Now what is the alternative here? Because there were a lot of people in America not of a faith community defending a free market for many years. But see, Nick, I believe that history took a pivot at 2008, at the point of the financial crisis. The efficiency claims of free markets were called into question. And I think that the moral claims were not there. There was not a strong Christian witness to defend a market economy. So now there are a lot of people, especially young people, tempted by the idea that the state can centrally plan the economy and we don't need all this free enterprise stuff. Now the difference is a lot of people on the right would say, yeah, but we want the state to do it our way. Let's not have dei, let's not have woke, but yeah, let's still have the state kind of mastermind the economy. And then of course, people on the left, they have their own different agenda that's progressive. But my view is that for humans to flourish, to most obey God, to most build strong communities and ultimately a strong civilization, the need of the hour is a fully Christian message about human action. And that is what I think we have to be working on for the next few years. I don't think it's going to be easy, but I do think we're going to prevail in the end and I.

[Nick Eicher]

Think we'll have a good time. And as you say, it's your company, David. To that end we work, so we'll get after it. David, I'm glad we took this time to reflect. Look forward to talking to you next week and the next week and the next week after that. David Bonson, founder, Managing partner and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group. David [e-mail] he also writes for World Opinions and you hear his news and comments here each week on the world and everything in it. David, thank you so much.

[Mike Waltz]

We'll have to celebrate a 10 year anniversary one of these days. Nick.

[Nick Eicher]

Hey, I'm here for it.

[Steve Witkoff]

Thanks so much.

[Nick Eicher]

Today is Monday, March 24th. Good morning. This is the World and everything in it from Listener Supported World Radio. I'm Nick Iker.

[Mary Reichard]

And I'm Mary Reichard. Up next, the world history book today, the inspiring life and untimely death of a beloved American pastor whose legacy still echoes today. World's Caleb Welde tells the story.

[Tom Homan]

At 26 years old, Jonathan Edwards becomes pastor of Northampton Congregational Church in Massachusetts. It's one of the largest and most prestigious churches in the American colonies.

[Ian Murray]

Northampton was a town of about 200 houses, about 1,000 or more people, men, women, children.

[Tom Homan]

Edwards biographer Ian Murray at a 2003 pastors conference.

[Ian Murray]

Of course, there was only one church in the town, and everybody in Northampton literally went to Church.

[Tom Homan]

At 37, Edwards preaches powerfully during what will become known as the Great Awakening.

[Ian Murray]

One historian says, like a sudden bolt out of a clear blue sky, there came the Great Awakening. Concern, spiritual hunger.

[Tom Homan]

His preaching and writing earned him an international reputation as one of the foremost pastors and theologians of his time. He was at the pinnacle of his pastoral ministry when, in 1750, his congregation dismissed him due to a theological disagreement over communion. Edwards argued only professing Christians were eligible. His church believed it was open to any. Edwards loses his pulpit and platform. He moves with his family to the frontier town of Stockbridge, Massachusetts, about 100 miles from the Atlantic coast. He continues to write while leading a small mission church, quietly ministering to Native Americans and frontier families.

[Ian Murray]

He was, by temperament, retiring, reserved, took exercise, horse riding, wood chopping in winter.

[Tom Homan]

But then, in January 1758, all of that changes. Edwards receives a letter. It's an invitation to serve as president of Princeton University, an even larger platform than he'd had at Northampton. Edwards is not interested.

[Mike Waltz]

Everything within him wanted to say no.

[Tom Homan]

Stephen Nichols is author of Jonathan A Guided Tour of His Life and thought.

[Mike Waltz]

I think he was very much enjoying his pastoral ministry at Stockbridge.

[Tom Homan]

Audio from Ligonier Ministries.

[Mike Waltz]

He had some book ideas he wanted to write.

[Tom Homan]

Edwards decides to ask a group of fellow ministers how they think he should respond to Princeton.

[Mike Waltz]

And they said, you should go.

[Tom Homan]

Princeton's mission is to train ministers. When Edwards got the letter from that.

[Mike Waltz]

Minister'S association, he literally wept.

[Tom Homan]

But he takes it as a call from God. He and his wife make a plan for her and the rest of the family to join him in Princeton later that spring.

[Ian Murray]

And one of his daughters says that as he went out of the house and stood on the road, he turned around and he said, I commit you to God.

[Tom Homan]

When Edwards gets to Princeton, he settles in an upstairs room in the President's house. Smallpox is the talk of the town, and the college doctors say the best thing to do is to get inoculated.

[Mike Waltz]

And Edwards took it to show the.

[Tom Homan]

Students that they had nothing to fear.

[Mike Waltz]

And Edwards was always intrigued by science and scientific inquiry and discovery. So he partook of the smallpox inoculation.

[Tom Homan]

But then he reacts to it badly. His throat begins swelling shut. He calls his daughter Lucy to his bedside. Later, she writes down what he says.

[Ian Murray]

It seems to be the will of God that I must shortly leave you. Therefore give my kindest love to my dear wife. And as to my children, you are now like to be left fatherless, which I hope will be an inducement to you to seek a father that will never fail you.

[Tom Homan]

Jonathan Edwards dies on March 22, 1758. His death is barely noticed.

[Ian Murray]

It said when he died, most of the American papers only gave him one sentence.

[Tom Homan]

He'd requested a simple funeral, and almost no details have survived.

[Ian Murray]

Many of his books weren't read. He left a great church for a tiny church in a corner of New England.

[Tom Homan]

When Jonathan Edwards was 19, he wrote a number of resolutions about how he intended to live in light of God's grace. These included, resolved to think much on all occasions of my own dying and of the common circumstances which attend death. He also wrote, resolved that I will live as I shall wish I had done when I come to die.

[Ian Murray]

The Bible says, what is man? I give it to you. In Edwards words, he says, man is a leaf, a leaf driven by the wind, poor dust, a shadow, and nothing. And of himself, he says, he was an empty, helpless creature of small account and needing God's help in everything. You know, if you take eternity out Edwards life, you could read it as a story of little success, a lot of disappointment.

[Tom Homan]

We shouldn't say this, but it's still something to speak of as an untimely.

[Mike Waltz]

Death of Jonathan Edwards. He left a lot of things unfinished.

[Tom Homan]

That I wish he had finished.

[Mike Waltz]

Edwards didn't have a charmed life like you. His life was also touched by challenges and difficulties.

[Tom Homan]

But there was a theological truth he.

[Mike Waltz]

Was able to hold onto. Redemption, God's salvation. It will be there from generation to generation. Not one of all these streams will fail.

[Ian Murray]

Was it a failure? No. Edward says, I acted against all influence of worldly interest because I greatly feared to offend God. In other words, he was living for eternity.

[Tom Homan]

That's this week's World history Book. I'm Caleb Weley.

[Nick Eicher]

Tomorrow, the Trump administration takes steps to protect minors crossing the border. And Illinois is considering a new law to regulate private education and homeschooling. That and more tomorrow. I'm Nick Eichert.

[Mary Reichard]

And I'm Mary Reichert. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates, and inspires. The Bible records that Pilate took Jesus and flogged him and the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe. They came up to him, saying, hail, King of the Jews, and struck him with their hands. Pilate went out again and said to them, see, I am bringing him out to you, that you may know that I find no guilt in him. Verses 1 through 4 of John chapter 19 go now in grace and peace.