← The World and Everything In It
The World and Everything In It
4.28.25 Supreme Court weighs parental rights in education, Trump’s trade deals and economic score, and a daring rescue on the USS Midway
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- [00:06]
Jenny Ruff
Good morning. A showdown at the Supreme Court asking whether public schools can promote gender ideology without giving religious parents an opt out.
- [00:14]
Kent Covington
Bobby and Jamie love each other, said mummy. But when grown up people love each other that much, sometimes they get married.
- [00:21]
Jenny Ruff
I mean, that's subtly sending a message.
- [00:23]
Kent Covington
This is a good thing.
- [00:24]
Nick Eicher
That's ahead on Legal Talking. Also today, the Monday money beat and the world history book. Today, two brave men make a cost.
- [00:33]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
My grandmother was whispering in my head, look, idiot, I didn't teach you to be in charge of anything and let women and children drown.
- [00:47]
Jenny Ruff
It's Monday, April 28th. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Jenny Ruff.
- [00:54]
Nick Eicher
And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.
- [00:58]
Jenny Ruff
Up next, Kent Covington with today's news.
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Kent Covington
President Trump is expressing some doubt about whether Russia truly wants peace and is threatening fresh sanctions against Moscow. That follows his weekend meeting at the Vatican with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Secretary of State Marco Rubio told NBC's Meet the Press this week is going.
- [01:18]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
To be a really important week in which we have to make a determination about whether this is an endeavor that we want to continue to be involved in or if it's time to sort of focus on some other issues that are equally, if not more important in some cases.
- [01:31]
Kent Covington
The president for months has been optimistic, at least publicly about Vladimir Putin's desire to end the war. But in light of recent Russian attacks on civilian areas in Ukraine, while peace talks are ongoing, Trump is now openly questioning Putin's intentions. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reacted, saying Moscow doesn't focus on Trump's rhetoric.
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Nick Eicher
We concentrate on the real negotiations which.
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Jenny Ruff
President Trump supports and instructed his people.
- [02:00]
Nick Eicher
To continue to engage, not on thinking, you know, failures or victories.
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Kent Covington
Lavrov says he expects a Trump Putin meeting in the coming weeks. And Speaking of negotiations, U.S. and Iranian officials gathered once again in Oman over the weekend for the latest round of nuclear talks, both sides describing the meeting as serious and productive. U.S. diplomats noted the exchange of written proposals for the first time. But Iran's foreign minister expressed extreme caution about the talks, saying the two sides remain far apart on some key issues. GOP Senator John Kennedy, though, says it is in Iran's best interest to resolve those issues at the bargaining table. If Iran gets a weapon or is days away from getting a weapon, there.
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Nick Eicher
Will be a war.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Iran won't start it and America won't start it.
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Nick Eicher
Israel will.
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Kent Covington
President Trump last week said he believes a deal is possible, but he added that he would not hesitate to take military action to prevent a nuclear armed Iran if necessary. Meantime, in southern Iran, a jet herd there dropping water over a thick cloud of black smoke billowing over a port that comes after a massive explosion Saturday reportedly linked to the shipment of a chemical used to make missile propellant. A Defense Ministry spokesman denied that such a chemical had been at the port. State media says at least 25 people were killed and some 800 others were injured in the blast. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant says new trade deals are now coming together with countries around the world. He told ABC's this Week we have a process in place over the next.
- [03:41]
David Bonson
90 days to negotiate with them.
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Nick Eicher
Some of those are moving along very well, especially with the Asian countries.
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Kent Covington
President Trump earlier this month paused reciprocal tariffs for most nations for 90 days amid trade talks. Opponents have slammed the president's tariffs plan, fearing economic uncertainty. Besant says he also believes that the US Will work out a new trade deal with China sooner or later. He says the Chinese economy relies heavily on exports to the United States. Federal authorities are vowing to prosecute any government officials that flout immigration law that after authorities arrested two judges on Friday. Assistant Homeland security secretary Tricia McLaughlin says DHS and the Justice Department will enforce the law.
- [04:27]
Jenny Ruff
Since President Trump took office, we've seen these activist judges trying to subvert the will of the American people.
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Kent Covington
Federal prosecutors say Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan knew that ICE agents were going to arrest an illegal immigrant facing battery charges after his hearing and she allegedly helped him escape the courthouse. From there, ICE agents had to chase him down on the street. Republican Congressman Brian Stile of Wisconsin allowing the defendant to get loose onto the street, allowing a foot chase to take.
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Mary Rice Hassan
Place, puts the lives of officers at risk.
- [04:58]
Nick Eicher
This criminal complaint makes it very clear a large number of witnesses, it reads like a casebook case of obstruction.
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Kent Covington
An attorney for the judge said she will defend herself vigorously and looks forward to being exonerated. And in New Mexico, authorities accuse a former county judge, Joel Cano and his wife of harboring an illegal immigrant gang member and tampering with evidence. Families are mourning today in Vancouver, British Columbia, after a man drove an SUV into a crowd of revelers at a street festival, killing at least 11 people. Police have arrested a 30 year old male suspect from Vancouver. Acting Vancouver Police Chief Steve Rhein, that.
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Nick Eicher
Male was taken into custody at the scene by the crowd.
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Mary Rice Hassan
It was a Filipino community event.
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Nick Eicher
The crowd immediately called police. We then took custody of the subject.
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Kent Covington
More than 20 others were injured Saturday night in that apparent attack. Investigators said Sunday that They're not ruling anything out just yet, but we're not classifying it as terrorism at this time. Tens of thousands of people were celebrating the Lapu Lapu Day festival in South Vancouver.
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Jenny Ruff
Foreign.
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Kent Covington
I'm Kent Covington. And still ahead on legal docket, a battle over parental rights in schools, plus the world history book. This is the world and everything in it.
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Nick Eicher
At the US Supreme Court last week, a debate you might once have considered unthinkable. Whether public schools can require four year olds to read about drag queens, about leather culture, about same sex marriage and whether parents have any right to shield their young children from it. That's the one where they are supposed.
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Kent Covington
To look for the leather and things.
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Nick Eicher
And bondage, things like that.
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Kent Covington
It's not bondage, it's a drag queen.
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Mary Rice Hassan
Drag queen and drag queen.
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Kent Covington
Correct. The leather that they're pointing to is a woman in a leather jacket and one of the words is drag queen in the circle and they're supposed to look for those. It is an option at the end of the book.
- [07:14]
Nick Eicher
Correct.
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Kent Covington
What are the ages of the children who were involved here?
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Mary Rice Hassan
These books were approved for pre K, which in Montgomery county can start as.
- [07:22]
Kent Covington
Early as three if they're going to turn four that fall.
- [07:25]
Nick Eicher
If they're going to turn four in the fall, they will read of a little girl whose mom agrees with her that she's a boy or about a favorite uncle marrying his boyfriend.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
It expresses the idea subtly, but it expresses the idea. This is a good thing.
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Mary Rice Hassan
Mummy, said Chloe, I don't understand.
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Nick Eicher
Why is Uncle Bobby getting married?
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Kent Covington
Bobby and Jamie love each other, said Mummy, but when grown up, people love.
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Nick Eicher
Each other that much, so sometimes they get married.
- [07:53]
Kent Covington
I mean, that's subtly sending a message.
- [07:55]
Mary Rice Hassan
This is a good thing.
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Jenny Ruff
It's not just some people think X, some people think Y. It's saying this is the right view of the world. This is how we think about things. This is how you should think about things. This is like two plus two is four.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Counselor, you said that nothing in the policy requires students to affirm what's being taught or what's being presented in the books. Is that a realistic concept when you're.
- [08:19]
Nick Eicher
Talking about a 5 year old? Today on legal docket, the clash between parental rights, religious freedom and the vision for public education. It's Monday 28th April, and you're listening to the world and everything in it from World Radio. Good morning. I'm Nick Iinger.
- [08:35]
Jenny Ruff
And I'm Jenny Ruff. We'll get to the legal arguments in a moment, but First, I can't unpack this case without laying a foundation. So I'll begin by shining a light on a basic belief held through the ages and largely still today written regardless of faith, namely this and the family is the primary vehicle through which children should learn about sexuality. So teach Elizabeth Urbanowitz of Foundation Worldview. Her organization develops resources to equip adults to teach kids how to carefully evaluate ideas and understand truth. And her materials include guidance for parents talking to their kids about sex from a biblical perspective that the public school system, or even the Christian school system or even the church should should never be the ones introducing sexuality to children. That that is always the responsibility of the family. One Best begun early we recommend that parents have the first of many sex and sexuality talks with their children around the age of four. Not every single detail, but at least the fundamentals. But if we want our children to come to us with their questions and we want them to have an understanding that sexuality is an inherently good gift from God, we have to start these conversations before the world does.
- [09:53]
Nick Eicher
Indeed, the world is starting these conversations earlier and earlier, leaving many parents in the dust. But a group of parents in Montgomery County, Maryland, is pushing back and last week pushed all the way to the Supreme Court, where eyebrows raised and jaws dropped over the legal arguments around exposure to controversial ideas versus coercion to embrace. Initially, the school board respected the freedom to disagree. It gave parents the freedom to opt out of a child's lesson if objectionable books are read or taught. But when too many families exercised the freedom, the board reversed course. No opt outs, no exceptions. Three families sued Muslim, Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox, arguing their First Amendment rights were violated.
- [10:44]
Jenny Ruff
The question before the high court is simple but weighty. Is the government burdening families rights freely to exercise their religion? By refusing the opt outs, the school board argues it's simply trying to foster civility in a pluralistic community. Attorney Alan Schonfeld students do not need.
- [11:01]
Kent Covington
To accept, agree with, or affirm anything they read. The lesson is that students should treat their peers with respect.
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Jenny Ruff
The parents don't buy it. They say this is about indoctrination. Here's their attorney, Eric Baxter. I Highlighting the BELIEFS the books clearly.
- [11:17]
Mary Rice Hassan
Set forth that, among other controversial matters, doctors guessed at their sex when they were born and that anyone who disagrees.
- [11:24]
Kent Covington
Is hurtful and unfair.
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Mary Rice Hassan
Forcing petitioners to submit their children to such instruction violates their religious beliefs.
- [11:31]
Jenny Ruff
There's a reason the First Amendment is first and out of its compact 45 words protecting five express freedoms. Religion is first, no surprise, then oral argument ran for an extraordinary two and a half hours. The First Amendment says that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That's been extended also to limit state government entities from interfering public school boards, for example.
- [11:56]
Nick Eicher
And the Supreme Court has held the First Amendment includes the right of parents to guide the religious education and upbringing of their children. Going back to 1972. The court took up the case Wisconsin versus Yoder. It involved a state mandate in Wisconsin requiring kids to attend public school until the age of Yoder stood for Amish families who wanted their children educated at home by age 14 to avoid the worldly influences of high school. In the case, the court sided with the Amish, saying the requirement placed an unconstitutional burden on the religious rights of the families. Likewise, the parents here argue the school board has burdened their religious beliefs.
- [12:39]
Jenny Ruff
Burden is key. The threshold inquiry is whether the school board's policy places a free exercise burden on the parents. And in the educational context, there's disagreement on how to interpret the word. The parents argue the test of what amounts to an unconstitutional burden is whether the government interferes with the parents rights. They say in this case it does. They say that kids in their years of innocence when taught information about sex must have moral principles included. Their faith calls for it, and no government can take that away.
- [13:11]
Nick Eicher
Significantly, the Montgomery County, Maryland school board allows middle school kids to opt out of sex education. So Justice Elena Kagan asked the attorney for the parents where he'd draw the line on opt outs. Does it matter what the subject matter is? Does it matter what the age of the child is? Does it matter what the nature of the instruction is? Kagan asked. What about a 16 year old in a biology class on evolution? Justice Sonia Sotomayor added more examples. What about books on women who work outside the home? What about divorce? What about interfaith marriage? The parents attorney Baxter said opt outs for religious beliefs apply regardless. Again, Justice Kagan, that's a pretty broad rule. It would be like, you know, opt outs for everyone.
- [13:58]
Jenny Ruff
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson disagreed that parents lack an opt out. Here parents can homeschool or send their kids to private school notwithstanding the expense.
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Kent Covington
But in so many other constitutional doctrines, we don't focus on whether people actually can afford afford to protect their rights. You still have the right to get an attorney in a civil case even if you can't afford it.
- [14:19]
Jenny Ruff
The school board argues the test for burden is far more difficult to prove. It goes beyond exposure. The standard is coercion. Mere exposure to the books, it argues, doesn't compel kids to affirm the ideas the books present. But Chief Justice John Roberts questioned the logic.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
So I mean, I understand the idea when you're talking about a sophomore, junior, whatever in high school, you know where the point is. You want to sort of push back on some of this. But I'm not sure that same qualifying factor applies when you're talking about five year olds.
- [14:52]
Jenny Ruff
You may notice this is all theory. That's because the issue here is a preliminary injunction. The parents sought to stop any harm before it happens. As a result, the record is pretty sparse as far as how the books have actually been used in classrooms. Justice Barrett acknowledged that much, but she also pointed out to the extent they are used, the books present a worldview clearly contrary to the parents sincere beliefs. If the justices decide it was wrong for the lower court to define burden as coercion, that instead if the proper definition of burden is interference, then the inquiry could stop here and the case sent back for the proper analysis.
- [15:30]
Nick Eicher
But the parties served up other arguments too. Under Employment Division v. Smith, the analysis the court would perform is whether the opt out policy is a neutral and B generally applicable. The parents say it's not, B not generally applicable because the county allows discretionary opt outs for things like Valentine's Day and birthdays, but draws a line for storybooks. So failing even a single prong of that test would mean the policy would face the highest legal standard of review, strict scrutiny, a very difficult standard for a state to meet. Another pathway to strict scrutiny analysis is to show the county's policy was not neutral, that it was motivated by hostility toward religion.
- [16:16]
Jenny Ruff
Mary Rice Hassan is co founder of the Person and Identity Project at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. It filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of the Maryland parents. And she adds two more important considerations.
- [16:29]
Kent Covington
When the state in the form of the teacher in a public school classroom is representing something, it carries a lot more weight the younger the child is. Young children are impressionable and this is the voice of authority. And then you're setting up this conflict between what they're learning at home, et cetera. I was surprised there wasn't a little bit more emphasis on that because I.
- [16:52]
Jenny Ruff
The second consideration, the lack of consensus on gender ideology, the notion that there's more than two sexes, that boys can become girls.
- [17:00]
Kent Covington
There is huge disagreement, even just from people who look at this from a scientific perspective and say this isn't accurate. Especially over the past few years, we've seen a whole lot of evidence coming out and people understanding that this is not what it purports to be. This is a belief system that's not based on science.
- [17:21]
Jenny Ruff
I also spoke with a number of authors of children's books about this case. One was Rosemary Wells. She's been in the industry since her first book in 1967. Wells describes herself as a dyed in the wool liberal from the north, from.
- [17:36]
Nick Eicher
A blue state, and I'm a grandmother of a trans child.
- [17:41]
Jenny Ruff
And yet she sympathizes with the parents.
- [17:44]
Nick Eicher
I think that they are worried about.
- [17:47]
Kent Covington
Their children's innocence and I worry about that, too.
- [17:51]
Nick Eicher
I would gladly, as a parent go along with a school program that preserves.
- [17:55]
Kent Covington
Children'S innocence over any sexual topic discussed.
- [17:59]
Jenny Ruff
Too early, she says it's never too early to learn about the natural world.
- [18:04]
Kent Covington
Our kids need to learn about elephants and volcanoes and stars, and they don't need to learn about sexual identity when.
- [18:12]
Nick Eicher
They'Re in the primary grace.
- [18:14]
Jenny Ruff
Justice Brett Kavanaugh grew up in Montgomery County. He said he's mystified about what's happened, especially given that Maryland was founded as a safe haven for Catholics escaping religious persecution in England. He gave the school board attorney a chance to address that. Listen to Justice Kavanaugh's response.
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Kent Covington
Montgomery county public schools are the most religiously diverse in the country. Montgomery county did its best under these circumstances, given their curricular goals.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Thank you.
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Mary Rice Hassan
It's a tough case to argue.
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Jenny Ruff
I appreciate it.
- [18:43]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Thank you.
- [18:43]
Jenny Ruff
That's how you show civility and respect to someone you disagree with.
- [18:48]
Nick Eicher
All right, one more note before we go. In addition to hearing this case, last week the court issued a 5, 4 decision in an immigration case. When calculating the 60 day period for the voluntary departure of a non citizen, the court said weekends and holidays don't count. So for example, say the 60th day is a Saturday and Monday is the 4th of July. The deadline then would extend to Tuesday, the next business day.
- [19:16]
Jenny Ruff
And that's this week's legal docket.
- [19:29]
Kent Covington
Additional support comes from the Crossway Podcast, thoughtful interviews with authors on topics related to the Bible, theology and the Christian Life. Crossway.org podcast from Dort University offering fast track ag degrees to help graduates make.
- [19:49]
Nick Eicher
An impact in agriculture.
- [19:51]
Kent Covington
Sooner Dort. Edu and from Eyewitness, an immersive audio drama exploring stories of faith and transformation on podcast apps or at the letter I witnesspod.com.
- [20:18]
Jenny Ruff
Coming up next on the world and everything in it, the Monday Money beat.
- [20:25]
Nick Eicher
Time now to talk business, markets and the economy with financial analyst and advisor David Bonson. David heads up the wealth management firm the Bonson Group. He's here now. Good morning, David.
- [20:35]
Mary Rice Hassan
Good morning, Nick. Good to be with you.
- [20:37]
Nick Eicher
So, 200 trade deals already, the President telling Time magazine in an exclusive interview suggesting that within weeks everything is going to be in place. Now, at the White House last week, President Trump had this to say.
- [20:52]
Mary Rice Hassan
I can't think of one country that doesn't want to negotiate a deal. And they either negotiate a deal or we set a deal that we think is fair.
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Nick Eicher
Now the reporter at Time who did the interview went on CNN to promote the interview and he confessed he didn't really understand what the President was saying. And I have to say I get that sometimes he's difficult to read. But David, what do you think is the reality of the deal making around tariffs and the trade war? Do you have any sense of the real progress?
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Mary Rice Hassan
Yeah, I think some people hear what I'm about to say and assume I'm being critical or accusing the administration of duplicitousness. And that's not at all. I do think a lot of it is going to be hyperbolic and cosmetic because for the very simple reason that there's a lot of countries we're trying to get deals with that we do not have bad deals with. Now, you know, this is the reason that a deal with Japan has not been announced because we set this whole thing up around we need to be, you know, charging them what they're charging us. But the problem with Japan is we charge them more than they charge us. And I don't think the administration wants to come out and announce, hey, good news, we got Japan to raise their tariffs on us. So the fact of the matter is that we really are dealing with China and yet the administration brought all these other countries in and now they have to go announce deals where a lot of the predicate for that it was just not totally accurate. So I do think an India deal is coming. A lot of the deals, Nick, will end up not being able to say, hey, Japan was charging us 10% and now they're only going to charge us 5. So that's a great deal for us. I think a lot of it is going to be they agreed to open up more markets for us on certain agricultural products that they weren't a big buyer before or India agreed to not have this trade barrier or to do, you know, there are going to be other things outside of tariff percentages. And I think a lot of those deals will come. I don't. Look, you can't do 90 deals in 90 countries in 90 days if they're real substantive deals I know how much the president loves deal making and it's been the kind of essence of his career for decades. But these types of trade deals, if we mean by them the same thing we've historically mean, exactly, exhaustive, comprehensive, legal, sustainable, enforceable documents. Most of those have taken years to negotiate. So really what you're going to get is not a deal. You're going to get a framework. And that is probably going to be good enough for the President. It's certainly going to serve as an off ramp. But you know, you announce 20 deals in the next two or three weeks. If one of them is in China, it doesn't matter. The country that the world is looking to, that the US Economy is looking to, is what's going to happen with China, you know, when we're importing as much as we are, that is a big elephant in the room that has to be resolved for the sake of US Commercial interests.
- [23:56]
Nick Eicher
All right, so that Time magazine interview I referred to was for the occasion of the 100 day mark of the second Trump presidency. And I think probably too much is made of these milestones, but we are seeing quite a lot of media stories about this one. The actual hundredth day comes Wednesday of this week. So what's on your report card so far?
- [24:20]
Mary Rice Hassan
Well, you know, I know you're not meaning to ask me about that politically, you mean kind of in the interest of the economy. And it's hard because I like a lot of people on the conservative right and as a man of faith, there's a lot about the administration's doing that I'm happy with. And there are things I'm not happy with. And that answer is so unsatisfying to people these days because they want me to say all good things are all bad things. But if I'm being totally objective, the first hundred days has been good for a lot of the non economic factors, you know, that we would focus on. A lot of people really are excited and I'm one of them to get rid of a lot of the DEI throughout government and those types of things. So please, I hope everyone hears me. I'm not taking away from anything that administration has done, but economically I really do believe that the way this trade war was gone about, even if some of the objectives of it are understandable, I think it's been very counterproductive. It's put the economy in a very precarious position. I do not believe we were headed into a recession. I think that with deregulation and energy independence and some of the better policies the President was going to to administer. Inflation was already coming down. Job growth was pretty healthy. I think that we were on a good economic footing and that we're now not. And the reason was pretty self induced. I think that we could have really isolated China to begin with, made it more of a geopolitical issue than macroeconomic, and allowed us to go get that budget reconciliation bill done, to go past some tax reform to meaningfully, permanently, reliably extend the past tax cuts and allowed some of those economic benefits to sink in, and then let that be kind of the foundation to other things he wanted to do in his agenda. Securing the border. I'm so complimentary of some, not all of the Doge things I'm complimentary of. But yeah, the, the trade war thing, you know, that's been a big deal and it has hampered his agenda. That's my honest opinion.
- [26:23]
Nick Eicher
All right, before we go, David, let me play a bit of audio from the director of the Department of Government Efficiency, Elon Musk. As people know, there's been some blowback for the time that I've been spending in government with the Department of Government Efficiency, or doge. Starting next month, I'll be allocating far.
- [26:40]
Kent Covington
More of my time to Tesla.
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Nick Eicher
My time allocation to Doge will drop significantly. All right, so what do you think about that? Is it possibly an admission that government work is a little harder than it looks?
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Mary Rice Hassan
You know, it's funny, I took it differently. I took it as him saying to the Tesla shareholders, this won't be a permanent thing, because I think from the vantage point of Tesla, not from the vantage point of Doge or the government, but, you know, Tesla's down like 50% since everything started here. And he's saying, I'm not going to be doing Doge forever. I have some things to do, they're very important. And if we don't improve certain issues with government efficiency and debt and whatnot, not we're not going to have a country to sell cars in. He said all that stuff. But then he was really trying to say there's a shelf life to what this Doge deal will be. And I always assumed that was the case. You may be right, by the way, that it could be. Some of the reason he'll accelerate a return to the private sector is because he doesn't like what he's having to do in the government sector. I know I wouldn't like it, but I think a lot of that was more just giving the foreshadowing to the Tesla shareholders that I do intend to be back.
- [27:52]
Nick Eicher
David Bonson, founder, managing partner and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group. David Wrights at world opinions and dividendcafe.com David, thank you. We'll see you next week.
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Mary Rice Hassan
Sounds good, Nick. See you next week.
- [28:30]
Nick Eicher
Today is Monday, April 28th. Good morning. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Nick Icker.
- [28:38]
Jenny Ruff
And I'm Jenny Ruff. Up next, the world history book. Today, the story of two daring men.
- [28:46]
Kent Covington
The sky over Saigon was filled with.
- [28:49]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Dozens of assorted aircraft. Helicopters, transports, even fighter bombers in an aimless whirling merry go round over the city.
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Jenny Ruff
It's April 29, 1975, the last full day of the Vietnam War. North Vietnamese forces are closing in on Saigon and the US Is scrambling to evacuate.
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Nick Eicher
This is the way the CBS Evening News reported the chaos.
- [29:12]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
It looked as though every pilot in.
- [29:13]
Kent Covington
The South Vietnamese Air Force who could.
- [29:15]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Get his hands on an aircraft had decided that now was the time to get away.
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Nick Eicher
Life or death decisions for desperate pilots on a South Vietnamese military base. Here is world correspondent Caleb Weldy.
- [29:29]
David Bonson
Bong Lee is one of those pilots. He knows this base will be overrun today. He's desperate. He loads his wife and five children onto a single engine two seater Cessna. He's technically stealing the military plane. Bong Li's kids are all under age 6. He and his family take off and head out to sea. They have no plan. This plane doesn't even have a radio. The same moment, Larry Chambers is standing on the bridge of the US Aircraft carrier Midway. He's doing his best to command the chaos. The Midway is sitting 100 miles off the Vietnamese coast. Dozens of helicopters have already unloaded more than 1,000 refugees onto the deck. 20 more helicopters circle the ship waiting for their chance to land. There's nowhere else to go.
- [30:17]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
50 people got out of a Huey.
- [30:20]
David Bonson
This is Larry Chambers, captain of the Midway, speaking at a reunion in 2019.
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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Now, Huey is designed for 10 combat marines or 10 combat army guys fully armed for combat.
- [30:34]
David Bonson
H53 helicopters are unloading 200 people at a time. They're going to have to start moving people to other ships. Back in the Cessna, Bong Li still doesn't know what to do. He's been flying for 30 minutes now. Above the vast South China Sea, the sky is gray. Light rain speckles the windshield. Bong Li's wife clutches their infant in the cargo space behind him. Then a group of helicopters all heading in the same direction. Bong Li decides to follow. Aboard the Midway, Chambers Authorizes his Marines to use deadly force, searching evacuees if necessary.
- [31:10]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Then about noon, this guy shows up and tried to drop a note on board.
- [31:17]
David Bonson
It's Bong Li. He's just buzzed the aircraft carrier in a stolen Cessna. The note missed its mark and fell into the ocean.
- [31:26]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
He tried three or four times and I think on the fourth try, the note stayed on board.
- [31:32]
David Bonson
The note says, can you move these helicopter to the other side? I can land on your Runway. I can fly one hour more. We have enough time to move. Please rescue me, Major Bong. Wife and five child. Chambers commanding officer tells him to let the plane ditch. He assures Chambers they can pick up the swimmers once the plane is in the water.
- [31:54]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
You knew with that note on board. This guy was desperate. He was not going to ditch that airplane.
- [32:03]
David Bonson
Chambers sees through his binoculars, Bong Li's wife holding their baby.
- [32:08]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
The airplane probably was gonna flip over and everybody was gonna drown. The major could swim, but all of those kids weren't strapped in.
- [32:18]
David Bonson
Chambers rings up his deck operations guy and he orders him to clear the deck.
- [32:24]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
But he said, skipper, you gotta be kidding. And I'm saying, no, I'm not kidding. I'm going to give you some help.
- [32:32]
David Bonson
Chambers gets on the shipwide PA system to let everyone know what's going on.
- [32:36]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
I gave Vern 2000 between 2000 and 2500 warm bodies to help him make a ready deck.
- [32:46]
David Bonson
Chambers has just defied a direct order.
- [32:49]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
The Admiral was yelling at me not over one of the private circuits. He was yelling at me over the 23mc until the whole bridge team was hearing my wonderful comments from the Admiral telling me about my ancestry and and a few others. And I'm telling the bridge, I'm the idiot in charge. Don't pay any attention to it.
- [33:19]
David Bonson
Soldiers push 25 helicopters into the ocean. Chambers speeds up the ship and turns into the wind.
- [33:26]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Eight more Hueys showed up and they landed too. No signal. Right in the middle of it.
- [33:33]
David Bonson
The crew of the Midway push those over the side too. Then they pack into the tower.
- [33:38]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
There were at least 2,000 people up there watching the show. And when this guy landed, you could have heard him all the way to China. It was such a celebration.
- [33:48]
David Bonson
Here's Bong Li speaking at a reunion in 2010.
- [33:52]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
I Never Land on the aircraft carrier.
- [33:57]
Mary Rice Hassan
But I don't have any other choice.
- [34:02]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
But I thought I could do it and I did it. Thank you, Captain Chambers, of your decision.
- [34:09]
Mary Rice Hassan
Of let me land are priceless.
- [34:12]
David Bonson
Chambers could have been court martialed, but instead he's promoted somebody coming out in.
- [34:18]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
A little airplane, dropping a note on board and think some idiot on the other side is going to read the note, push a whole bunch of helicopters over the side to let him land, and then not expected to be court martial for it. So, I mean, I'm as bad as Bang Lee. I mean, he had the courage to come try it and I was the idiot that said we're going to give him a try.
- [34:43]
David Bonson
Bang Lee and his family eventually settle in Florida. Chambers and Bangli still keep in touch.
- [34:49]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
Over this year, a lot of wonderful things happen.
- [34:56]
Mary Rice Hassan
My wife, my children and I become naturalized American citizens.
- [35:04]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
My children now are grown up and some have married and start their new family.
- [35:12]
David Bonson
So what made Larry Chambers do it? He says it's simple.
- [35:17]
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
My grandmother was whispering in my head, look, idiot, I didn't teach you to be in charge of anything and let women and children drown.
- [35:25]
David Bonson
That's this week's world history book. I'm Caleb Welde.
- [35:34]
Nick Eicher
Tomorrow, some pro life groups want to defund Planned Parenthood and then redirect that funding to pro life centers. But it's not as straightforward as it might sound. And a North Carolina family touched by last year's flooding and this year's wildfires find home in the devastation. That and more tomorrow. I'm Nick Iger.
- [35:54]
Jenny Ruff
And I'm Jenny Ruff. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The Bible says, oh, the depths of the riches and the wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways. Verse 33 of Romans 11. Go now in grace and peace.