5.29.25 Reducing prescription drug prices, Afrikaners request asylum, and a rift in the PCA

Summary

The World and Everything In It Episode: Reducing Prescription Drug Prices, Afrikaners Request Asylum, and a Rift in the PCA Release Date: May 29, 2025

Introduction Host: Mary Reichardt and Myrna Brown
Overview: This episode of "The World and Everything In It" by WORLD Radio delves into three major topics: the U.S. government's efforts to reduce prescription drug prices, the asylum requests of white South African farmers amid rising violence, and a significant controversy within the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA).

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1. Reducing Prescription Drug Prices

Executive Order and Policy Implementation
Timestamp: 07:27 – 13:59

President Donald Trump has signed an executive order aimed at lowering prescription drug prices in the United States, a policy he frequently champions. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently set new price targets for drug manufacturers to align U.S. prices with those of other wealthy nations. Mary Muncie reports on the potential impact of this policy on both consumers and the pharmaceutical industry.

Impacts on Consumers
Dee and Jean Van Der Giesen, residents of Sioux Center, Iowa, illustrate the personal financial strain caused by high prescription costs. Jean states at [08:14]: “Now it don't look so good because we could buy groceries then for about six sixty dollars a week. Now it's one hundred and twenty.”

Policy Mechanics and Criticisms
Trump's "most favored nation" approach mandates that U.S. drug prices match those in other countries, effectively cutting out middlemen and negotiating directly with manufacturers. Jeremy Counts ([09:03]): “Trump's policy is a good first step. If it's implemented correctly, we could bring down drug costs over here.”

However, critics like Emma Frayer argue that this could lead to inflated pricing tied to higher foreign standards, potentially causing shortages. Emma Frayer ([09:54]): “Could see it skyrocket because they are negotiating kickbacks that they don't have to.”

Economic and Innovation Concerns
Economist Jeremy Ngosian ([10:21]) warns that setting drug prices below market levels, as done in countries like Japan and France, can hinder pharmaceutical innovation by reducing the funds available for research and development. Steven Ezell of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation ([11:07]): “Life science companies reinvest a quarter of their revenues into innovation.”

Alternative Solutions
Ezell suggests enhancing transparency within the healthcare system, particularly targeting pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), who currently obscure pricing structures. Kent Covington ([13:20]): “Only 49 cents on every dollar that Americans spend on drugs actually goes to the companies making them.”

Conclusion on Drug Prices
While the executive order aims to make medications more affordable, experts debate its long-term effects on drug availability and innovation. Kent Covington ([13:45]): “We can have price controls, we can pay less for drugs. But the choice is not between lower drug costs and lower drug company profits.”

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2. Afrikaners Seeking Asylum in the U.S.

South African Political Climate
Timestamp: 14:07 – 20:48

A significant development has emerged as nearly 60 white South African farmers, known as Afrikaners or Boers, have sought asylum in the United States amidst escalating violence and economic turmoil in South Africa. This influx follows a contentious meeting between President Trump and South African President Cyril Ramaphosa, where Trump accused South African officials of advocating violence against white farmers.

Personal Stories and Historical Context
Gideon Joubert, a private security consultant from Cape Town, reflects on the historical significance of this event, likening its impact to that of 9/11. Joubert ([15:15]): “It is possibly one of the most significant, if not the most significant, but definitely one of the most significant events in Afrikaner history.”

The Afrikaners, descendants of European settlers dating back to the 1600s, played a pivotal role in establishing apartheid, a system of racial segregation abolished in 1994. Today, they claim to face discrimination alongside other minority groups, amid a dire economic situation with high dependency on government welfare.

Economic and Social Challenges
With 28 million people on government welfare out of a population of 60 million and only about 7 million taxpayers, South Africa is grappling with severe economic instability. Steve Witkoff ([17:11]): “We have 28 million people on government welfare grants that they are dependent on to survive out of a total population of 60 million.”

Trump’s Executive Order and its Implications
In response to the asylum requests, Trump issued an executive order pausing foreign aid to South Africa, highlighting the controversial 2024 land expropriation law that allows the government to seize private farmland without compensation. Steve Witkoff ([19:20]): “This is any private property, including the contents of your bank account, that the state can arbitrarily seize by just invoking a 'public interest' clause.”

Genocide Debate
Trump labeled the violence against white farmers as genocide, a term many critics argue is a misapplication. Steve Witkoff ([19:57]): “There is no actual genocide that meets the definition of what a genocide would be.”

Community Reactions and Future Prospects
Local South African families, like Annika van der Waals’ family, express safety concerns and the challenging decision to stay or seek refuge abroad. Van der Waals ([18:26]): “If we have to give up our culture for safety of us, our children and the future of our children, we will probably have to do that.”

The Trump administration anticipates an increase in South African refugees but faces complex diplomatic and humanitarian challenges.

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3. Rift in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)

Controversial Executive Order
Timestamp: 22:13 – 29:10

A significant controversy has unfolded within the Presbyterian Church in America following Chief Administrative Officer Brian Chappell’s revelation of a list naming individuals he accuses of damaging the church’s reputation by attacking other Christians—referred to as "scandalizers." This disclosure has sparked backlash, including formal complaints and letters of concern from sister Presbyterian denominations.

Details of the Controversy
During an episode of the Gospel Bound podcast, Chappell presented a list of names, inadvertently revealing it publicly via a fleeting sticky note. Viewers managed to capture and share the list, which includes names of individuals who have either left their families, their faith, or taken their own lives. Notably, some of the named individuals are respected pastors who contest their inclusion.

Kent Covington ([24:45]): “Public actions have public consequences. The existence of the display of such a list is having a negative impact on the relationship between the PCA and other denominations.”

Reactions from the Community
Individuals named on the list, such as Carl Truman, a professor and ordained pastor, have publicly denied the accusations. Carl Truman ([24:57]): “My writings, lectures, sermons and podcasts are not characterized by attacks on other Christians.”

Pastors and community members advocate for humility, prayer, and reconciliation. Frank Smith ([27:15]): “The appropriate response to a situation like this is humility and reflection.”

Church’s Response and Future Steps
The PCA's administrative committee is set to meet and discuss the appropriate response to the incident. Potential actions include public and private apologies to those affected.

Kent Covington ([27:22]): “What should our response be? It should be prayer. Prayer for the person and his family...”

The controversy has strained relationships within the broader Presbyterian community, emphasizing the need for careful and compassionate resolution.

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4. Additional News Highlights

International Negotiations and Conflicts
Timestamp: 01:30 – 04:16

• U.S. Trade Policy: A federal court has blocked Trump from using emergency powers to impose sweeping tariffs, a key component of his trade strategy. The White House is appealing the decision.

• Iran Nuclear Deal: President Trump is optimistic about a potential nuclear agreement with Iran, emphasizing peaceful resolutions. Kyle Thomas ([02:10]): “We are doing very well with Iran... there are only two outcomes.”

• Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks: Russia has proposed new peace negotiations involving Turkey. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy demands the proposal's outline before engaging further, while reaffirming military support from allies like Germany.

• Israel-Hamas Ceasefire Efforts: U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff reports progress towards a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, with conditional support from the U.S. administration. Kyle Thomas ([04:02]): “The President is going to review it and I have some very good feelings about getting to a long term resolution.”

Missouri Pro-Life Protections and Infrastructure Updates
Timestamp: 04:42 – 06:21

Missouri's pro-life measures have been temporarily reinstated following a Supreme Court ruling, heightening the state's ongoing abortion debates. Concurrently, updates on Newark Liberty International Airport's infrastructure aim to alleviate persistent flight delays, with new fiber optic lines expected to enhance air traffic control systems.

Grammar Commentary by Cal Thomas
Timestamp: 29:34 – 33:22

Cal Thomas takes a detour from political discourse to address perceived degradations in the English language. He critiques the misuse of common phrases and sentence fillers, advocating for the preservation of "proper English." Notable points include:

• Misused Phrases: Terms like "goober," "phlegm," and "bombshell" are highlighted as examples of language distortion.
• Redundancies: Phrases such as "full upright and locked position" are criticized for being unnecessarily repetitive.
• Cultural Impact: Thomas links the decline in language standards to broader social agendas and emphasizes the importance of correct grammar for clear communication.

Cal Thomas ([29:35]): “Something really ought to be done about these words and phrases.”

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Conclusion

This episode of "The World and Everything In It" offers a comprehensive analysis of critical issues ranging from national health policy and international asylum crises to internal religious community conflicts. Through interviews, expert commentary, and on-the-ground reporting, WORLD Radio provides listeners with in-depth insights into the complexities shaping our world today.

Notable Quotes:

• Mary Muncie ([08:07]): “Been retired for 14 years and when we did that then looked like you.”
• Kent Covington ([13:45]): “We can have price controls, we can pay less for drugs. But the choice is not between lower drug costs and lower drug company profits.”

Stay Informed: For more detailed coverage and updates, tune into "The World and Everything In It" on Apple Podcasts and other platforms.

Transcript

[Mary Reichardt]

Hi, it's Mary and Myrna.

[Myrna Brown]

It's world's new donor drive this week. Meaning if you listen but have not.

[Mary Reichardt]

Given, well, this is the time to do that because new donors qualify for a dollar for dollar match by generous longtime donors who say, hey, join our team and we will double your gift.

[Myrna Brown]

That's what I'm talking about. So please visit wng.org newdonor this new.

[Mary Reichardt]

Donor drive ends on Friday. W. Good morning. President Trump signs an executive order to cut drug prices. Can it work?

[Myrna Brown]

Also, white South African farmers seek asylum in the U.S. raising the question, when does targeted violence become genocide? And a post it note roils the Presbyterian Church in America.

[Kent Covington]

At a minimum, public and private apologies to those named on the list are appropriate.

[Myrna Brown]

And world commentator Kyle Thomas says if you care about truth, start by cleaning up your grammar.

[Mary Reichardt]

It's Thursday, May 29th. This is the world and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio, I'm Mary Reichardt.

[Myrna Brown]

And I'm Myrna Brown. Good morning.

[Mary Reichardt]

Time for the news now with Kent Covington.

[Kent Covington]

A federal court has blocked President Trump from using emergency powers to impose sweeping tariffs, dealing a major blow to one of his key trade policies. The US Court of International Trade ruled that the 1977 International Emergency Powers act does not give the President authority to regulate imports through tariffs. The ruling does note, however, that under a separate law, the President can still impose limited tariffs for up to 150 days on nations with which the US has a large trade deficit. The White House is appealing the case, which may ultimately be decided at the Supreme Court. President Trump says US Negotiators are making progress toward a nuclear deal with Iran.

[Kyle Thomas]

We are doing very well with Iran, and I think we're going to see something very sensible because there are only two outcomes. You know what the two outcomes, There's a smart outcome and there's a violent outcome. And I don't think anybody wants to see the second.

[Kent Covington]

Speaking in the Oval Office, he said he believes the deal could come together over the next couple of weeks. He also acknowledged that he warned Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu against taking any actions that could threaten the ongoing talks. And Rafael Grossi, the head of the UN's nuclear watchdog agency, the IAEA, says he sees cause for cautious optimism. The fact that they continue to meet and they continue after one round to say that there is an interest in going on in, in having yet another meeting. I think Iran is believed to be one fairly short technical step away from enriching uranium at weapons grade levels. Russia is proposing a new round of peace talks with Ukraine and Turkey. On Monday, the Kremlin says it plans to present an outline of its terms for a possible cease fire deal. Ukraine says it is open to more negotiations, but it wants Moscow to deliver that outline before a new round of talks. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire. And on Wednesday, Zelenskyy met with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, who told reporters, we will continue our military support and even.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Increase it so that Ukraine can continue.

[Steve Witkoff]

To defend itself against this Russian aggression.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Now and in the future.

[Kent Covington]

Russia's proposal for a new round of talks comes on the heels of some of the biggest aerial attacks against Ukraine since the start of the war. Meantime, U.S. special Envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff says U.S. officials are on the verge of sending out a new term sheet to outline a possible ceasefire between Israel and the Hamas terror group.

[Kyle Thomas]

The President is going to review it and I have some very good feelings about getting to a long term resolution.

[Kent Covington]

Temporary ceasefire and a long term resolution.

[Kyle Thomas]

A peaceful resolution of that conflict.

[Kent Covington]

Also, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel killed senior Hamas leader Mohammed Sinwar in a strike two weeks ago. And in Gaza, aid trucks are finally reaching residents after a weeks long blockade by Israel, which voiced concerns about Hamas stealing the supplies. Pro life protections have been temporarily restored in Missouri after a state Supreme Court ruling. World's Benjamin Eicher has more.

[Benjamin Eicher]

The high court instructed a lower court judge to lift two injunctions that had allowed abortions to continue. Circuit Judge Jerry Zhang blocked two pro life laws, saying she believed pro abortion groups would eventually win their lawsuit. Now the dispute is headed to trial in January. In its ruling, the state Supreme Court said the judge used the wrong legal standard when granting those injunctions and must reconsider the decisions. Republican Attorney General Andrew Bailey praised the move as a victory for women and children.

[Kent Covington]

These pro life measures, which took effect.

[Benjamin Eicher]

In 2022, allow abortion only in limited situations. Meanwhile, Missouri voters approved a November ballot measure banning any restrictions on abortion before the baby can survive on its own outside the womb.

[Kent Covington]

For World I'm Benjamin Eicher in New Jersey. Flight cancellations and delays continue at Newark Liberty International Airport. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says a new Runway is also set to open at the airport soon, which should help. But beyond that, he says it has been a perfect storm of multiple factors including air traffic control, understaffing and outdated tech and data lines. However, Verizon has laid a brand new fiber line between Philadelphia and New York.

[Kyle Thomas]

If it all goes well, we should be able to turn over to this.

[Kent Covington]

New fiber line at the start of July. Duffy has also warned that if air traffic control systems are not updated, many more airports could experience the same problems seen in Newark.

[Kyle Thomas]

I think this truly is a moment to look at what kind of system we're using, what kind of equipment we.

[Kent Covington]

Use, what kind of telecom we use. The Trump administration is pushing a multi year $13 billion overhaul of the system. Foreign Covington and straight ahead, addressing US Drug prices. Plus, when calling out scandalizers becomes a scandal itself. This is the World and Everything in it.

[Mary Reichardt]

It's the 29th of May. So glad to have you along for today's edition of the World and Everything in It. Good morning. I'm Mary Reichert.

[Myrna Brown]

And I'm Myrna Brown. First up, bringing down the cost of prescription drugs. Last week, the Department of Health and Human Services set new price targets for drug manufacturers. The goal to bring US Drug prices more in line with those in other wealthy countries. It's part of President Trump's most favorite nation Executive Order.

[Mary Reichardt]

World's Mary Muncie reports on what this could mean for the pharmaceutical industry.

[Mary Muncie]

Dee and Jean Van Der Giesen are scrolling through the prescription app in Walmart in Sioux Center, Iowa.

[Kent Covington]

Blood pressure for stomach. He has one for Crohn's.

[Kyle Thomas]

Parkinson. Parkinson, I think I take 19 pills. That's too many.

[Mary Muncie]

They have health insurance, but between the two of them, paying for their prescriptions is a solid chunk of their monthly budget.

[Kyle Thomas]

Been retired for 14 years and when we did that then looked like you.

[Kent Covington]

Had very sufficient amount.

[Kyle Thomas]

Now it don't look so good because we could buy groceries then for about six sixty dollars a week. Now it's one hundred and twenty.

[Mary Muncie]

They're not sure how much they pay each month because when you need it.

[Kent Covington]

You need it, so you pay the price.

[Mary Muncie]

The Van der Gassens think drug prices are too high. And they're not alone. Last week, the Health and Human Services Department started implementing President Donald Trump's plan to lower American drug costs. Trump says other countries put price controls on drug prices and that's forcing drug companies to charge Americans more, making us pay.

[Kent Covington]

They set a price and they said.

[Kyle Thomas]

Here'S what we're going to pay and anything else. Judge America.

[Mary Muncie]

Trump's most favored nation policy is supposed to change that. The policy orders several departments to work together to ensure that countries don't undercut American prices. Part of that is forcing manufacturers to sell pharmaceuticals to Americans at the same price that they sell to other countries and to cut out middlemen, the Health and Human Services Department took the first step by outlining price targets for manufacturers to hit. But some are worried the policy needs more thought.

[Kent Covington]

We are relying a lot on foreign governments to negotiate these prices with most favored nations.

[Mary Muncie]

Jeremy Counts works with pharmacists United for Truth and Transparency. He says Trump's policy is a good first step. If it's implemented correctly, we could bring.

[Kent Covington]

Down drug costs over here or we.

[Emma Frayer]

Could see it skyrocket because they are negotiating kickbacks that they don't have to.

[Mary Muncie]

Report back to the United States government.

[Emma Frayer]

So we get our drug prices tied to an inflated number.

[Mary Muncie]

Others worry the policy will artificially lower prices in the US for the most.

[Kent Covington]

Part, drug prices in other countries are set from the top down by the government.

[Mary Muncie]

Jeremy Ngosian is an economist with the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

[Kent Covington]

So they tend to set lower prices than what a market would determine.

[Mary Muncie]

And he says that means other countries experience shortages or a delay in manufacturers introducing a drug into their country.

[Kent Covington]

In Japan and France, they have phrases for this drug lag and drug loss that are completely foreign to American consumers because one of the benefits of paying a market price is that shortages are not something we really have to worry about.

[Mary Muncie]

These price controls have also stifled other countries. Research and development or R and D.

[Kent Covington]

The important thing to understand about America's life sciences industry is that it is the most R and D intensive industry in the entire world.

[Mary Muncie]

Steven Ezell works with the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation. He says life science companies reinvest a quarter of their revenues into innovation.

[Kent Covington]

The reality is that if we want to pay the Greek or the Portuguese price for medicines, we're going to end up with the amount of drug innovation that comes out of places like Greek or Portugal, and that is very little.

[Mary Muncie]

Ezel says the real problem may not be the cost of the actual drug. While Americans often pay higher prices for brand name drugs, they typically pay less for generics, meaning that once a patent expires, the free market is able to balance out the system.

[Kent Covington]

From 2008 to 2023, over that time, Americans expenditures their total health care expenditures increased by 107%, but their expenditures on drugs increased by only 23%.

[Mary Muncie]

Ezel believes trying to create transparency in the healthcare system may be a more effective route. And and he wants to start with pharmacy benefit managers, or PBMs. PBMs bill themselves as a wholesale buyer able to negotiate a lower price from drug manufacturers by buying in bulk. Then they pass those savings on to consumers. PBMs say they keep a small profit for themselves. But Ezell and other critics say there's nothing small about it.

[Kent Covington]

Only 49 cents on every dollar that Americans spend on drugs actually goes to the companies making them.

[Mary Muncie]

How PBMs actually affect prices is hard to determine. They don't publish much data, and the data they do publish is often hard to understand, economist Nagoshin says. In general, more transparency is better, but it's not unheard of for industries to keep their prices under wraps or for intermediaries to work on behalf of another industry.

[Kent Covington]

Profits at PBMs are not very high, which is a good sign, I'd say, that they're not, you know, taking that they're not cheating anyone, that they're not overpricing or underpricing.

[Mary Muncie]

For now, it's unclear how the government will enforce Trump's most favored nation policy, but innovation researcher Ezell says they should think carefully about how they incentivize drug companies. He says there's a strong link between how much a company earns and the creation of new drugs. So the challenge is to build a system where consumers and companies benefit from innovation.

[Kent Covington]

We can have price controls, we can pay less for drugs. But the choice is not between lower drug costs and lower drug company profits. The choice is between lower drug cost and fewer or not as good solutions for our children.

[Mary Muncie]

Reporting for world I'm Mary Muncie.

[Myrna Brown]

Coming up next on THE WORLD and everything in it South Africa under the global spotlight. Last week, President Trump had a testy meeting in the Oval Office with South African President Cyril Ramaphosa. Trump played a video montage of South African elected officials calling for killing white farmers and seizing their land.

[Mary Reichardt]

The week before, a small group of white South Africans arrived in the US Seeking asylum, president Trump told reporters.

[Kyle Thomas]

But it's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about.

[Mary Reichardt]

The South African government disputes the claim, though it does admit that criminal violence is widespread. So how bad are things in South Africa? World senior writer Emma Frere talked to several residents to find out.

[Benjamin Eicher]

With asylum programs on hold in the US the arrival of white South Africans as refugees made news in America today. Nearly 60 white South Africans were admitted into the United States, but it was possibly an even bigger story back in their homeland.

[Steve Witkoff]

I went to bed the night before with the airplane still having not departed.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Gideon Joubert is a private security consultant who lives in Cape Town.

[Steve Witkoff]

And then I opened up the news and there it was, roundabout, just before work the next morning. And I thought, here we go.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Watching the news that morning reminded Joubert of 9 11, which happened when he was 15 years old. He felt like the course of history was changing before his eyes.

[Steve Witkoff]

It is possibly one of the most significant, if not the most significant, but definitely one of the most significant events in Afrikaner history.

[Benjamin Eicher]

He hopes the shock of seeing South Africans as refugees finally jolts the government into undertaking reforms to make life better for everyone. Afrikaners, sometimes called Boers, are white South Africans who began arriving from Holland, Germany and France in the 1600s. They traditionally worked as farmers. Today, South Africa has a population of 60 million. About 5 million of those are white, and half of these are Afrikaners. Joubert is one of them.

[Steve Witkoff]

I can trace my family lineage here to 1681, when my ancestors arrived here as French Huguenots fleeing persecution, persecution from the French king and the Roman Catholic Church in France at the time. It was that tumultuous era of the religious wars. In France and elsewhere in Europe, Afrikaners.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Played a central role in establishing apartheid, the brutal system of institutional racial segregation and discrimination that was abolished in 1994. Today, Afrikaners say they are the ones being discriminated against. And not just them, but also other minority groups. Those include South Africans of Indian descent, which total about 1.5 million people. Against the backdrop of racial tensions, Chubert says the country faces a dire economic situation.

[Steve Witkoff]

We have 28 million people on government welfare grants that they are dependent on to survive out of a total population of 60 million. And we only have about 7 million taxpayers.

[Benjamin Eicher]

He thinks his country is on the verge of becoming a failed state. But many South Africans are not ready to give up on their homeland. Annika van der Waals is a wife and mother of four young children in Potchefstrom, a small city in the northwest of South Africa. She understands why some of her countrymen are seeking asylum in America, but she's not planning to apply to join them.

[Kent Covington]

And we hope that we can contribute to a better South Africa. We try to do good work and to help and spread the gospel.

[Benjamin Eicher]

Van der Waals biggest concern is safety. Her neighborhood bands together to pay for private security. That's a common arrangement for anyone in the lower middle class and upward and provides a small measure of safety from rampant crime. But the government has proposed new gun control legislation that would disarm most private security guards. Van der Welt and her family are prepared to leave if they have to.

[Kent Covington]

If we have to give up our culture for safety of us, our children and the future of our children, we will probably have to do that, and we pray a lot that the Lord will bless this country rather than punish this country for excluding him in everything.

[Benjamin Eicher]

In the executive order. Pausing foreign aid, Trump zeroed in on a 2024 land expropriation law. That law allows the government to seize farmland which is still largely in white hands. The South African government says this policy is necessary to redress the injustices of apartheid, but has not yet implemented it. But the law empowers the government to seize other types of private property as well, without compensation. That has Joubert worried.

[Steve Witkoff]

This is any private property, including the contents of your bank account, that the state can arbitrarily seize by just invoking a It's in the public interest clause, which is ill defined and very open for abuse.

[Benjamin Eicher]

And this sort of South Africa has one of the highest homicide rates in the world, and only a tiny number of those estimates vary, but don't go higher than 60 a year, are murders of white farmers. Trump described the killings as genocide. Critics argued that the president was out of line to use that term. Joubert thinks Trump didn't mean it literally.

[Steve Witkoff]

So, no, there is no actual genocide that meets the definition of what a genocide would be.

[Benjamin Eicher]

But he thinks Trump carefully selected that one word to draw attention to the problems.

[Steve Witkoff]

I think if you look at previous historical genocides, a common thread and a common theme to them is that in the aftermath of them, for decades afterwards and sometimes centuries afterwards, a lot of people would say, you know, this was a great tragedy and a great atrocity. It could, it could have been averted if more people just stood up and said something before it happened.

[Benjamin Eicher]

The Trump administration expects to welcome more South African refugees to America in the months ahead. Reporting for World I'm Emma Frayer.

[Kent Covington]

Additional support comes from biblestock.org helping Bible teachers bring the land of the Bible to life through photos and videos. Biblestock.org.

[Mary Reichardt]

News anchor Olivia Jaquewith of CBS 6 in Albany delivered the headlines last week like a pro, and then some.

[Mary Muncie]

We do have some breaking news this morning. Literally, Olivia's water has broken and she is anchoring the news now in active labor.

[Mary Reichardt]

Her co anchor, Julia Dunn, made clear this was Jake with's call. A producer held up a sign that read go to the hospital. But she powered through all three hours on air.

[Mary Muncie]

I'd rather be at work than at the hospital.

[Mary Reichardt]

Well, I get that part. Only after signing off did she calmly head to the hospital where she and her husband welcomed baby son Quincy.

[Myrna Brown]

Now that's a real, real deadline delivery.

[Mary Reichardt]

It's the world and everything in It Today is Thursday, May 29th. Thank you for turning to World Radio to help start your day. Good morning. I'm Mary Reichard.

[Myrna Brown]

And I'm Myrna Brown. Coming next on the World and Everything in it controversy within the Presbyterian Church in America. Last week, the denomination's chief administrative officer, Brian Chappell, revealed a list of names of men he says hurt the church's reputation by attacking other Christians. He called them scandalizers. That revelation has triggered multiple appeals to investigate Chapel character, along with letters of concern and many questions about how the PCA will handle the fallout. Reporter Zoe Miller has more.

[Emma Frayer]

All it took was one small sticky note to set a controversy in motion.

[Kent Covington]

Longing for relationships is up. Depression is way up. Anxiety is way up.

[Emma Frayer]

That's Brian Chappell, the Presbyterian Church in America's stated clerk. There's he appeared on a recent episode of the Gospel Bound podcast. The episode covered the challenges modern churches face with generational divides. The show's host, Colin Hanson, brought up the subject of men who spend too much time performing for the applause of their peers by trying to scandalize others. And that was when Chapel brought up his list.

[Kent Covington]

Those are the names of the scandalizers, the people who have invested hours every day attacking others for their supposed lack of faithfulness, for their compromise who whose identity comes from scandalizing others. And every name on that list has either left his family, left the faith, or taken his life. Every name on that list.

[Emma Frayer]

Chapel then briefly held up the sticky note. It was only on screen for a split second, and he says he didn't intend for anyone to read it. But when a video of Hansen and Chapel recording the podcast was published, viewers were able to pause, zoom in and read most of the names on the list. Since the interview's May 20 release date, Chapel's list of so called scandalizers has made the rounds on social media. It's triggered multiple formal complaints against him and drawn official letters of concern from sister Presbyterian denominations. Many people are asking the question, what should be done? Some of the men on the list are pastors in good standing with the PCA or with other Presbyterian denominations. A number of them dispute Chapel's characterization of them as scandalizers.

[Kent Covington]

I have no idea why my name appears on Dr. Chapel's list.

[Emma Frayer]

Carl Truman is a professor of biblical and theological studies at Grove City College and an ordained pastor in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I asked him why he thought his name is on the list.

[Kent Covington]

My writings, lectures, sermons and podcasts are not characterized by attacks on other Christians, truman told me.

[Emma Frayer]

The Chapel apologized to him privately, but.

[Kent Covington]

Public actions have public consequences. The existence of the display of such a list is having a negative impact on the relationship between the PCA and other denominations. As far as the PCA response goes, I'm sure that they are taking this seriously and working hard toward a satisfactory resolution. At a minimum, public and private apologies to those named on the list are appropriate because Dr. Chappell has caused genuine pain and distress for those named and their families.

[Emma Frayer]

Another name on the list is David Weinkopf, a minister who died in 1993 in a mountain climbing accident. Weinkopf's friend, Pastor Doug Hart, believes that the list was a serious offense against Weinkopf and his family.

[Kent Covington]

He made the statement that everybody on that list had either left their faith, the family, or taking their own life. And David never left his family, never left his faith. He was in good standing as a.

[Kyle Thomas]

Pastor, no charges against him or anything.

[Kent Covington]

And his family loved him dearly. So the only possible reason he could be on there is he's suggesting that David took his own life, which grieved me as his friend.

[Emma Frayer]

Hart has since sent in a formal request to investigate Chapel's Christian character on the basis of this list. In PCA polity, that's called a 312 request.

[Kent Covington]

Well, you know, we talk a lot in the PCA about being able to disagree agreeably and iron sharpens, iron sparks fly. But the best thing to do is treat each other as brothers and not as enemies, even when we differ. And so for David to be on the list of whatever that was, it just to me is remembering to harbor that resentment that must be there is just injurious to our church.

[Emma Frayer]

The North American Presbyterian and Reformed Council, or naparc, is a group of Presbyterian churches connected by shared doctrine and fraternal bonds. Several men who appeared on Chappell's list are elders in other Napark churches.

[Kent Covington]

I don't think that the actions of an individual should affect fraternal relations.

[Emma Frayer]

That's Frank Smith, a pastor in one of the sister denominations. He also appears on the list. Smith ran a newspaper in the early 2000s that covered some controversial PCA news. He thinks that may be the reason Chapel included his name. He believes that the PCAs bond with its sister churches can be strengthened by properly handling this incident.

[Kent Covington]

As a matter of fact, assuming an appropriate response by the pca, the outcome very well helped to affect stronger bonds.

[Emma Frayer]

Despite the seriousness of the incident, Smith feels sympathy for Chappell's situation.

[Kent Covington]

Well, I am saddened by this current scandal. You know, it's always difficult when someone by his own actions creates this kind of situation for himself, and particularly so while in the latter stages of his career.

[Emma Frayer]

For Smith, the appropriate response to a situation like this is humility and reflection.

[Kent Covington]

What should our response be? It should be prayer. Prayer for the person and his family. Humility, you know, willingness to not only to forgive, but also willingness to recognize that there but for the grace of God go I. And of course, also with the hope that out of this can come a sweetness. Out of bitter can come a sweetness.

[Emma Frayer]

U.S. chapel is a member of the PCA's administrative committee, and they'll meet to discuss this issue next Friday. Reporting for World I'm Zoe Miller.

[Myrna Brown]

Today is Thursday, May 29th. Good morning. This is the World and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio, I'm Myrna Brown.

[Mary Reichardt]

And I'm Mary Reichardt. The beginning of summer offers columnists the opportunity to address subjects they might otherwise avoid the rest of the year. So today world commentator Cal Thomas takes a break from the culture wars and instead wages battles on a different front.

[Mary Muncie]

Grammar.

[Mary Reichardt]

He opens his catalog of English language pet peeves.

[Kyle Thomas]

Inattention to the use of proper English seems to be a subject few bother to address. I have a list of misused words and phrases that in the past might have labeled a person uneducated. Here are just a handful of what could be hundreds, even thousands, added almost daily to my gallery of misspoken words. People who appear on TV are frequently guilty of mangled English. One phrase that is especially annoying is as you can see, someone should remind them, yes, we can see because it's television obviously is repeatedly used by some of the most experienced news anchors. If it's obvious, why are you telling me about it? Why do reporters use words the rest of us don't? No one says to their neighbor, who are you voting for in the mayoral or gubernatorial election? Only TV people say that a goober is a chocolate covered nut or a label kids used to call phlegm when it was coughed up. And I can't find the meaning of notorial anywhere. Mayor and governor will do fine. And now for a quick list of everyday offenders like and you know are used as sentence fillers. Like what if I know why are you telling me here? And there are other unnecessary sentence placeholders. At the end of the day is a meaningless statement. Would that be standard or daylight time? How about all eyes are on? Really gearing up is a substitute for preparing or getting ready. But do people have gears? Many politicians refer to the American people as if we are united in our beliefs. If we were, we wouldn't have two parties or independents. Then there's if you will. Well, what if I won't? Why do so many young restaurant servers respond when you thank them by saying no problem instead of you're welcome? Airports have a language all their own. Pre boarding is one favorite. You can get on before others or board early. But you can't pre board. It's an impossibility like pre existing. And speaking of airport phrases that don't actually mean anything, at each gate there's a readout on the screen with a countdown clock labeled Time to boarding. It almost always expires before you are allowed on, assuming the plane is even at the gate. Eventually the screen changes to boarding soon, as if that clears things up. If it's really delayed, the screen just goes blank. That brings me to the instructions for my airplane seat. It must be returned to its full upright and locked position. Isn't that redundant? A few more Bombshell used to refer to an especially attractive woman. Now it's used to describe almost everything except an explosive device. Cliche World changer is a common label for an individual who apparently has powers no one else possesses. But if someone could change the world, would it not have been done by now? Presumably for the better. And finally, if someone has come under fire, should we call the fire department? Something really ought to be done about these words and phrases. The teaching of what was once called proper English apparently has been replaced by social agendas and a refusal to correct its misuse. It's becoming obvious to anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see. You know I'm Cal Thomas.

[Mary Reichardt]

Tomorrow, John Stonestreet is back to answer more questions from our WJI students. Colin Garberino reviews the new Karate Kid Legends Project and Arsenio Articulation Arteza introduces us to a classical minimalist. That and more tomorrow. I'm Mary Reichard.

[Myrna Brown]

And I'm Myrna Brown. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. Remember, if you listen to this program and have never given in support of it, today and tomorrow is a great time to start. A generous donor will double your gift if you give this week. I've been at World Journalism Institute for the past two weeks and I can tell you your gifts are investing in Christian students learning to write from a biblical worldview. So please show your [e-mail] newdonor today and tomorrow only the psalmist writes, the great is your mercy, O Lord. Give me life according to your rules. Many are my persecutors and my adversaries, but I do not swerve from your testimonies. Verses 156 and 157 of Psalm 119 go now in grace and peace.