6.12.26 The Pentagon’s Mormon classification, Disclosure Day, and George Grant with Stephen Mansfield

Summary

The World and Everything In It — June 12, 2026

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of "The World and Everything In It" focuses on the intersection of faith, language, culture, and current events. The central discussions include the Pentagon's reclassification of religious groups, particularly regarding whether Mormonism should be classified as Christian; the societal implications of changing language around parenthood in New York State law; cultural and ethical debates around abortion, especially concerning Down syndrome diagnoses; the philosophical themes in Steven Spielberg's new film "Disclosure Day"; and a conversation with best-selling author Stephen Mansfield about books that shaped his worldview and leadership.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Pentagon’s Classification of Mormonism

Segment: 07:55–12:17

• The Pentagon consolidated more than 200 religious designations in the military down to 31, listing 21 groups as Christian but originally leaving out the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS/Mormons).

• Utah lawmakers protested; the list was revised.

• The controversy centers on the question, "What makes a religion Christian?"

• John Stonestreet explains that while the Pentagon chose not to engage in theological distinctions, Christians must:

  “Mormonism is not a Christian religion. It is a different religion altogether. It has a different understanding of Jesus. Even though both Christians and Mormons claim Jesus, they're talking about different guys from any objective measurement and a Christian understanding of Jesus.” (09:44)

  • Differences cited include views on the Trinity, the createdness of Jesus, Scripture, and salvation.
  • Pentagon’s eventual fix: remove the "Christian" category from all groups to sidestep theological adjudication.

2. Language Reform in Family Law: “Gestating Parent” Instead of Mother

Segment: 12:17–15:36

• New York legislature bills propose replacing "mother" and "father" in law with terms like "gestating parent" and "non-gestating parent."

• John Stonestreet links this shift to the trajectory of the sexual revolution:

  “This is what happens downstream of Obergefell... the fundamental idea is that men and women are interchangeable…” (12:46)

  • He notes that the erasure of gendered language reflects an ideology asserting men and women are interchangeable in reality, not just rights.

• Concerns that such changes are not simply vocabulary but reshape human relationships:

  “Words absolutely make a difference... when words are used to intentionally obscure clarity. That's what's happening here.” (15:04)

  • Stonestreet calls replacing familial terms with clinical descriptors a way to obscure reality and undermine foundational human connections.

3. Ethical Reactions to Abortion After Down Syndrome Diagnosis

Segment: 15:36–18:10

• Discussion centered on a social media influencer couple who aborted after a Down syndrome diagnosis.

• The public backlash focused not just on the act but the choice being made visible.

• John Stonestreet observes the paradox:

  “We have talked about these incredibly significant moral choices... as if it's personal and private and should not be public... But we should also reserve some condemnation for the doctors, because... [couples] are pressured by the doctor. The expectation is to abort.” (16:31)

  • Notes that U.S. numbers are relatively low compared to Europe but still a majority.
  • Stresses the power of words to euphemize grave actions and the influence of medical and cultural expectations.

4. Culture Review: “Disclosure Day” — Spielberg’s Latest Film

Segment: 19:21–24:32

• Colin Garbarino reviews Steven Spielberg’s “Disclosure Day,” a film about the possibility that aliens have visited Earth and the political, social, and theological fallout from that revelation.
• The film is more about "ideas than thrills," focusing on how society would respond to truth with world-shaking implications.
• Notable dialogue:

  “People get starved for the truth.” (21:48)

• Garbarino points out the film's engagement with theological questions but critiques its naive approach:

  “The movie attempts to make the case that there's no inherent contradiction between believing in aliens and believing in God, and it acts as if this is some startling revelation... as if Christianity were founded on the notion that we're alone in the universe rather than the fact that Jesus rose from the dead.” (22:56)

• Notes a trend in Hollywood filmmakers grappling more seriously (if sometimes clumsily) with questions of faith.

5. Quest: George Grant with Stephen Mansfield — Books that Shaped a Leader

Segment: 25:30–32:17

• George Grant interviews Stephen Mansfield about three books that greatly affected his worldview and career:
  1. Plain Speaking: An Oral Biography of Harry Truman by Merle Miller — taught him about the complexity of a life in leadership and biography.

     • “I began to understand how a life came together and how a life could be written about and how a life could be reported.” (27:23)

  2. Bringing in the Sheaves: Transforming Poverty into Productivity by George Grant — inspired practical biblical compassion and direct ministry action.

     • “We did everything you suggested. We had bags, grocery bags filled with peanut butter and all the stuff you recommended. We called it Isaiah 58.” (28:28)

  3. What I Saw at the Revolution by Peggy Noonan — inspired his writing style and understanding of politics through storytelling.

     • “It taught me some things about writing that I use to this day. It freed me as a young writer.” (30:11)

• Mansfield credits a biblical worldview as the connecting thread uniting these influences:

  “What they did was they formed an understanding of leadership and impact on society that great leadership can have under the hand of God.” (31:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pentagon’s LDS Classification:
  “The way that the Pentagon fixed this is instructive as well, because as the Department of War quickly posted out, it's not our job to distinguish between these things.” — John Stonestreet (11:50)

• On vocabulary in law:
  “So please do not send me, do not send me a happy non gestating parent day card.” — John Stonestreet (14:25)

• On abortion cultural response:
  “We can condemn the Ridgeways, and we should. They deserve every bit of condemnation that they're receiving... But we should also reserve some condemnation for the doctors...” — John Stonestreet (17:18)

• On truth and society (from “Disclosure Day”):
  “That truth will upend all established order across the entire world.” — Movie dialogue, quoted by Nick Eicher (22:51)

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Important Timestamps

• 07:55 — Pentagon’s religious classifications and LDS controversy
• 08:44–12:17 — John Stonestreet on Pentagon’s handling of Mormonism’s Christian identity
• 12:17–15:36 — New York’s “gestating parent” bill; language’s effect on relationships
• 15:36–18:10 — Online backlash to abortion after Down syndrome diagnosis
• 19:21–24:32 — “Disclosure Day” review: Spielberg, faith, and truth
• 25:30–32:17 — George Grant interviews Stephen Mansfield on influential books and biblical worldview

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Conclusion

This rich episode traverses complex intersections of faith, law, language, and culture, providing listeners with in-depth analyses, thoughtful conversation, and insightful reviews. From debates over what constitutes Christianity in official classifications, to the reshaping power of language in law and culture, to cinematic explorations of truth and faith, the episode reflects the podcast’s commitment to biblically grounded, thoughtful journalism. The closing interview with Stephen Mansfield further grounds the show in the enduring impact of literature and leadership governed by a biblical worldview.

Transcript

[John Stonestreet]

Hi, John Stonestreet here. Culture Friday is not just about the stories of the week. At the end of the day, it's really about ideas, because ideas matter. And ideas don't just stay ideas. They take shape into laws, institutions, families, cultures. That's why a biblical worldview matters to all of life, including journalism. Good reporting helps us see not only what's happening, but why it's happening. And you can support the incredible work of world during its June giving drive. Go to wng.org donate that's WNG. And I'll be back in less than 10 minutes.

[Lindsay Mast]

Good morning. Today on Culture Friday, a Pentagon paperwork dispute raises a bigger question, what makes a religion Christian?

[Nick Eicher]

John Stonestreet is standing by. We'll talk about that and much more. Also today, a sci fi mystery explores whether some truths are too dangerous to reveal. That truth will upend all established order across the entire world. And author Steven Mansfield on quest with George Grant.

[Lindsay Mast]

It's Friday, June 12th. This is the world and everything in it. From listener supported World Radio, I'm Lindsay Mast.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Icker. Good morning.

[Lindsay Mast]

Up next, Mark Mellinger with today's news.

[Mark Mellinger]

President Trump called off a third round of airstrikes against Iran, saying a deal to end the war in Iran. In Trump's words, a great settlement is almost finalized.

[Nick Eicher]

They will not have a nuclear weapon.

[John Stonestreet]

They've agreed to that. They will not only not have, they

[Nick Eicher]

will not purchase, develop in any way,

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

any shape, in any way, shape or

[Nick Eicher]

form a nuclear weapon. They will not have a nuclear weapon.

[Mark Mellinger]

Trump also says the Strait of Hormuz will open as soon as the agreement is signed. He says that could happen as soon as this weekend in Europe with Vice President Vance handling the signing for the US on the president's behalf. Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesperson, however, says the country has not reached a final decision on any agreement. Earlier in the day, before he announced the potential breakthrough, Trump had promised more bombing, saying the US Was ready to take over Iran's oil and gas markets. On Wall street, reaction to the president's announcement was extremely positive. Stocks rallied to their best day in two months, with all three major indices jumping between 1.8% and 2.5%. Oil prices also dropped sharply amid the news that a deal to end the conflict with Iran could be close at hand. President Trump has announced his long term pick for Director of National Intelligence. He is turning to Jay Clayton, the current U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York and former chairman of the securities and Exchange Commission. This comes after intense pushback to Trump's pick of Bill Pulte as acting DNI Democrats have held up passage of an important foreign surveillance measure in opposition to Pulte, who they see as a Trump loyalist with no national security experience. Democratic Congressman Adam Smith of Washington says he doesn't trust either of Trump's DNI picks.

[John Stonestreet]

I don't trust this guy any more than anyone else because at the end

[Nick Eicher]

of the day it's Trump.

[John Stonestreet]

Trump is the one that I do not trust. I do not trust Trump with the sensitive information. He's made it very clear he is going to use it to pursue his own personal, political, vindictive agenda, not to protect the national security interests of the United States.

[Mark Mellinger]

Reaction from other Democrats has been less severe, with Virginia Senator Mark Warner saying he respects Clayton. Senate Majority Leader John Thune says the Senate will move quickly on Clayton's nomination, with one source telling the Associated Press the Senate Intelligence Committee is planning a confirmation hearing for Wednesday. Trump says Pulte will still serve as acting DNI briefly while Clayton awaits confirmation. Meantime, lawmakers failed Thursday to reauthorize Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act FISA, which allows warrantless surveillance of foreign targets outside the U.S. that is the section Democrats refused to extend because of President Trump's choice of Bill Pulte as acting dni. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to get

[John Stonestreet]

back to good faith negotiations about surveillance authority, the proposed elevation of Bill Pulte needs to be reversed.

[Mark Mellinger]

Thursday was lawmakers last chance to extend the FISA provision before it expired at midnight. House Speaker Mike Johnson we did everything

[John Stonestreet]

within our power to try to ensure

[Mark Mellinger]

that this statute does not expire and

[John Stonestreet]

the Democrats are using it as a political hostage.

[Mark Mellinger]

Johnson, however, also lost more than a dozen Republicans on the vote. It failed 218 to 198 in the House, where it needed a two thirds majority to pass. Late Thursday, President Trump said he is considering an executive order to extend FISA Section 702, though some lawmakers question his legal authority to draft such an order. The man accused of gunning down two Minnesota state lawmakers and their spouses last summer kill killing House Speaker Melissa Hortman and her husband switched his plea to guilty Thursday. Vance Bolter agreed to serve two consecutive life sentences plus 40 years. U.S. attorney for the District of Minnesota Daniel Rosen explains why prosecutors took the death penalty off the table in exchange for a plea deal.

[John Stonestreet]

When you have a defendant that is prepared to plead guilty, take consecutive life terms plus to ensure that he never sees freedom again in his entire life. That was an opportunity that we just

[Mark Mellinger]

could not pass up. Bolter impersonated a police officer to gain access to his victims inside their homes. He also faces several more state charges, including murder and impersonating a police officer. President Trump is threatening a federal takeover of Washington, D.C. the mayoral primary is Tuesday, and because the city leans heavily Democrat, whoever wins then is likely to also win the general election. D.C. councilmember Janice Lewis George, a self described Democratic socialist, is one of the prime contenders, and the prospect of her winning concerns Trump.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

I wouldn't like it.

[Nick Eicher]

And maybe we'll take back Washington, run it on the federal basis.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

We won't put up with it.

[Mark Mellinger]

Last year, Trump started a series of National Guard surges to cut down on crime in the nation's capital, and he has often touted lower crime rates as a result. But one recent criminal has managed to elude the U.S. park Police so far. Someone marked the numbers 8647 on the lawn of the National Mall near the Washington monument this week. 86 can serve as slang in the restaurant industry for get rid of. And that combination of numbers is widely considered a threat against Donald Trump, the 47th president. I'm Mark Mellinger. Straight ahead, John Stonestreet is here for Culture Friday. And later, Colin Garbarino sizes up the latest Steven Spielberg movie to hit the big screen. This is the WORLD and Everything In It.

[Lindsay Mast]

It's Friday, 12 June. Glad to have you along for today's edition of the World and Everything In It. Good morning. I'm Lindsay Mast.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Icker. A week ago, this might have sounded like an obscure Pentagon paperwork dispute. The Defense Department or the War Department consolidated more than 200 religious designations and whittled it down to 31. In the process, it listed 21 groups under a Christian heading, but it left out the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the lds, the Mormons. And that triggered a protest from Utah. Senators Mike Lee and John Curtis direct appeals to the White House and Defense Secretary War Secretary Pete Hegseth. And by Monday, the Pentagon had revised the list again. Well, joining us now is John Stonestreet. John is president of the Colson center and host of the Breakpoint Podcast. John, good morning.

[John Stonestreet]

Good morning.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, the Pentagon decided it was not qualified to answer this question, but Christians still have to. John, why do you think it's become so controversial to say that Mormonism and biblical Christianity are two different things?

[John Stonestreet]

Look, the problem they were trying to solve is an obvious one, which is in the military, people claim all kinds of religion in order to get the religious exemption. I have it on good authority, having some chaplains within my congregation, that there is a large contingent of people who worship the God Thor in the US Military, but it's only because they want to have facial hair. I mean, look, this was a reduction of significant proportions of the number of recognized religious groups. Interestingly enough, of all the groups that were identified as Christian, the Church of Latter Day Saints was not. And that was the source of the consternation from Senator Lee and by others. Interestingly enough, there were groups that were included as Christian groups, including, for example, Christian Scientists, which of course is nothing like a Christian religion, and Jehovah's Witnesses, who themselves don't like to hold on to that term. Kind of like the Mormon Church when it was founded, it was seen as a correction of Christendom from the Great Apostasy. So it is interesting that in the application of this within that Latter Day Saints, they used to not want the term Christian and now they do. They used to like the term Mormon and now they don't. It's really hard to keep up with it, but that's what the Latter Day Saints have been doing. Senator Lee immediately posted on X. Can anyone tell me why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was not included with the designation Christian? And the answer to that question was quick and robust. A lot of people could answer why, and a lot of people did answer why. And you could sum it all up with Mormonism is not a Christian religion. It is a different religion altogether. It has a different understanding of Jesus. Even though both Christians and Mormons claim Jesus, they're talking about different guys from any objective measurement and a Christian understanding of Jesus. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. Mormons deny the Trinity. Mormons believe that Jesus was created. Christians understand, as was clarified throughout several church councils, that Jesus is not created. Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, eternally existent, who is begotten, not made, as the phrase goes. Mormons disagree with Christians about the Bible, about God, about the character and nature of God, about Jesus, about the nature of sin, about the nature of salvation, and about what constitutes Holy Scripture. So it was correct not to identify the Mormon Church as being a Christian denomination because it is not. The way that the Pentagon fixed this is instructive as well, because as the Department of War quickly posted out, it's not our job to distinguish between these things that I agree with. It's not the Pentagon's job to do this. And when they tried to do it. They. They dropped the ball. So what they ended up doing is remove the Christian designation from all groups. And that served the purposes of identifying who could be recognized as a chaplain and who could not. And that served the purposes and made everyone happy and moving on.

[Lindsay Mast]

Well, John, I want to talk about another set of terms that got reclassified recently. Both chambers of the New York legislature have approved a bill that would replace words like mother and father in parts of state law with terms like gestating parent and non gestating parent. So with Father's Day coming up, I'm trying to imagine my kids handing their dad a card that says happy non gestating parent Day. John, this is what happens downstream of

[John Stonestreet]

Obergefell isn't happens downstream of the sexual revolution. And the Obergefell decision was an example of one of the fundamental ideas of the sexual revolution, and that is that men and women are entertaining. Now, that's always been a part of the feminist movement initially, that men and women should be interchangeable in rights, which of course is true, since both bear the image of God and both should be recognized as such. And basic human rights belong as much to women as they do to men. But when the sexual revolution got a hold of the second wave feminism, then this evolved a bit to men and women being interchangeable not just in rights, but in roles. And when you're talking about roles, you're talking about the cultural application of these biological distinctives. And there are biological distinctives. And in working out of the second wave feminism, those distinctives got quite muddied. And then that has kind of brought into this brave new world the third chapter, which is that men and women are interchangeable in reality. Now, to your point, how is this connected with Obergell? Well, look, if men and women are interchangeable in marriage, then men and women are interchangeable in parenting. And that's why we have various forms of this in cultural speak, right, that, you know, we say things like, oh, kids just need a loving family. Love makes a family. As if, you know, just the act of love makes a family. All of that is nonsense because homosexual love is non procreative, even if it's sincere and committed and faithful and monogamous. Heterosexual love can make a family if it's none of those things. We're just talking about objectively different things here. So please do not send me, do not send me a happy non gestating parent day card.

[Lindsay Mast]

Well, John, maybe this is just a different way of asking the same question, but I keep thinking about something my grandfather used to say, he told my mom that the most beautiful word in the English language was mother because he'd lost his when he was very young. And it strikes me that words like mother and father aren't just labels. They're these deeply human words. So when a culture starts replacing them with terms like gestating parent and non gestating parent. Very clinical. Is that more than a vocabulary? Does it eventually change how we understand those relationships?

[John Stonestreet]

Well, words absolutely make a difference, and not just in. In the fact that how you define words matter and that words are the fabric of the universe, but when words are used to intentionally obscure clarity. That's what's happening here. Right? And it has to be done. You have to make up words in order to bolster these claims that are counter to what is observably real and true and so on. So I. I think it does matter, Mother and are perfectly good words, and they reflect the reality that is.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, John, I know you saw this story. It involved a social media influencer and his wife announcing online that they were expecting a baby. Later, they ended the pregnancy after receiving a Down syndrome diagnosis. They had an abortion. But what struck me about the story was not the decision itself, because by most estimates, that is what happens in roughly three quarters of these cases in the United States. I mean, we're no Iceland, which. Which is almost 100% of down syndrome cases, but 75% in the US still pretty shameful. What struck me, John, was the reaction. People who would normally insist that abortion is a private choice seemed all of a sudden willing to call this choice wrong. And they did say, so the guy got clobbered online. What do you make of all that?

[John Stonestreet]

Well, I. I think it reveals again, the worldview ground in which all this stuff happens. First of all, we have talked about these incredibly significant moral choices, including the choice to actually end a human life, as if it's personal and private and should not be public. Second, it was interesting to hear how many people just responded with, like, you know, have some sensitivity. They just lost their baby, you know, as if they didn't actually just. Just kill their baby. I mean, that. That, you know, again, it has to do with words and the use of language as a way to obscure what has actually taken place. Then, in a sense, it's interesting, too, to your point, 75% of couples make that decision here, and that's a low number compared to the rest of the Western world. We can condemn the Ridgeways, and we should. They deserve every bit of condemnation that they're receiving. Right? Now, even if they don't understand it and other people don't understand it because they're so morally blind from what is obviously true. But we should also reserve some condemnation for the doctors because think of the number of reports we have from couples who find out some sort of diagnosis like this prenatally and they are pressured by the doctor. So theoretically, whether the Ridgeways were predisposed to that sort of decision or not, even if they weren't, they would have received an enormous amount of pressure, most likely from the medical community around them. Like the expectation is to abort. Really the thing we should be icked out about on top of all that is the fact that they chose to post this on social media and some attention grab.

[Lindsay Mast]

John Stonestreet is president of the Colson center and host of the Breakpoint Podcast. John, thanks. We'll see you next time.

[John Stonestreet]

Thank you both. Additional support comes from Ascend by Unbound, a real world faith centered college alternative for gap year trades and degree seeking students. More at beunbound US world from water's edge, where faithful investments strengthen ministry. 4.6% APY on a 15 month term watersedge.com invest and from St. Dunstan's inviting young men into the building arts and the adventure of holiness on a Blue ridge Mountain Farm. Stdunstonsacademy.org.

[Nick Eicher]

Today is Friday, June 12th. Thank you for turning to World Radio to help start your day. Good morning, I'm Nick Eicher.

[Lindsay Mast]

And I'm Lindsay Mast. Coming next on the World and everything in it, a legendary director returns to one of his earliest preoccupations. Steven Spielberg has already made a trio of of movies about first contact between humans and intelligent creatures from outer space. Close Encounters of the Third Kind in 1977, E.T. the Extraterrestrial in 1982, and War of the Worlds in 2005. Disclosure Day is his new movie exploring the theme, and it opens this weekend. Here's World's arts and culture editor, Colin Garberino.

[Colin Garbarino]

Once upon a time, seeing the name Steven Spielberg attached to a movie was enough to make people sit up and take notice. This is the guy who invented the summer blockbuster with Jaws in 1975 and then reinvented it with ET seven years later. Name brand directors might not carry the same weight as they used to, but it's worth checking out what this wizard of light and sound is up to.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

People have a right to know the truth. It belongs to 7 billion people.

[Lindsay Mast]

What is it?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

[Colin Garbarino]

Disclosure Day imagines what it would be like for our world on the day we discover we're not alone in the universe. The movie drops the audience in the middle of the action. Daniel and his girlfriend Jane, played by Josh o' Connor and Eve Hewson, are on the run from shadowy government operatives. Josh has stolen some valuable information and his pursuers want it back.

[Lindsay Mast]

What did you steal?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Secrets. The data they paid me to protect.

[Colin Garbarino]

Those secrets provide indisputable evidence that aliens have been visiting Earth for the last 79 years, and the American government has been involved in a conspiracy to cover it up. At the same time, hundreds of miles away, Kansas City weather anchor Margaret, played by Emily Blunt, starts to have a very strange day.

[Lindsay Mast]

Good morning, Kansas City. Let's. Let's take a look at today.

[John Stonestreet]

Let's, let's. Today is today's.

[Colin Garbarino]

Of course, Daniel and Margaret's lives will eventually intersect. It's as if they're chess pieces in a bigger game. Colin Firth and Colman Domingo play bureaucrats wrestling with each other over who gets to control the volatile information in Daniel's possession.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

People get starved for the truth.

[Colin Garbarino]

Disclosure day is rated PG13 for infrequent strong language and a mildly bloody scene. There's only one true action sequence, because this movie is more about ideas than thrills. How would people react when faced with evidence of life from outer space?

[Lindsay Mast]

If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you?

[Colin Garbarino]

Disclosure Day has philosophical aspirations, so expect a lot of talking. Spielberg uses his characters to pose a broader question about the nature of truth. O' Connor and Blunt really carry the movie. Their characters are likable and their performances are strong. But at times the dialogue veers into too much exposition as it explores its big idea about whether we're obliged to disclose the truth or whether truth can be the property of a privileged few.

[Nick Eicher]

That truth will upend all established order across the entire world.

[Colin Garbarino]

One of the movie's subplots that feels especially awkward involves a digression into theology. The movie attempts to make the case that there's no inherent contradiction between believing in aliens and believing in God, and it acts as if this is some startling revelation, as if Christianity were founded on the notion that we're alone in the universe rather than the fact that Jesus rose from the dead. The script doesn't give any hint that Spielberg is aware of the fact that Christians have been debating the idea about how aliens might fit into God's design for generations. I mean, just to be clear, I don't believe Aliens exist, but if they showed up, I certainly wouldn't have a crisis of faith. Even though Hollywood struggles to talk about faith in a way that feels authentic, I think it's noteworthy that themes of faith are creeping into mainstream movies. At the end of last year, Rian Johnson released his Knives out movie Wake Up Dead man, which also dealt with faith and also starred Josh o'. Connor. Both of these movies from unbelieving filmmakers attempt to explore Christianity. And though neither quite understands the faith, it's interesting that both take religion seriously rather than dismissing it. I wonder if we're seeing the beginnings of a trend.

[Nick Eicher]

If you do this, there's no one doing it.

[Colin Garbarino]

Despite his faults, Disclosure Day is a pretty good movie. It has drama, mystery and humor and a coherent story. The cinematography is excellent and the practical effects give the film a grounded feel. But is it good enough to warrant a trip to the theater?

[Lindsay Mast]

What are you gonna do?

[John Stonestreet]

Full disclosure to the whole world all at once?

[Colin Garbarino]

I'm not sure Americans still care about the idea that little gray men crash landed in Roswell. But more importantly, Hollywood blockbusters have evolved since Spielberg pioneered the genre 50 years ago. This isn't the kind of event sized movie you need to see on the big screen. It's nearly two and a half hours long, which might sound event sized, but all the exposition makes it feel overly long. The fact is, Spielberg's ET Is half an hour shorter, but twice as entertaining. I'm Colin Garberino.

[Lindsay Mast]

Good morning, this is the World and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Lindsay Mass.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Time now for our occasional feature we call Quest, Conversations with Thoughtful Leaders about three books that have shaped their thinking, not necessarily their favorite books. Talking about the books that have most influenced their lives and their calling.

[Lindsay Mast]

Yeah, the segment is built off of a concept we publish each month in World magazine. And we've invited our resident logophile here at the World and Everything in It, George Grant to lead this discussion. George is an author in his own right and he felt like a natural choice for this. And as you'll hear, this segment took a bit of an unexpected turn

[George Grant]

today. I'm speaking with the New York Times best selling author and my dear friend for almost four decades now, Steven Mansfield. Stephen, when did you first realize that reading could shape your life?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Well, George, as you know, I spent my teen years behind the iron Curtain. My father was an army officer, we were in Berlin and so reading Time, Newsweek, Look, National Geographic, any of those publications, I wasn't so much into Books then made me. It was immediate. It was. If something was going on in Washington, it had implications for where I was living. We found out what the Russians were thinking by reading in New York Times and other publications. So in my teen years, reading periodicals made me realize how vital reading was for understanding the world in which we live. Because literally, it was telling me about the geography where I lived at that time. And I was there for six or seven years.

[George Grant]

Okay, well, let's just get straight to the books, then. I want to hear about your list. What's the first book on your list? And what was going on in your life when you first encountered it?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Well, the first book that ever really deeply impacted me because I became a Christian late in my life was Plain Speaking, the oral biography of Harry Truman by Merle Miller. Now, it's an unusual one because it is controversial. Later on, I was the college student. I was fishing around as to what I was gonna major in. I had a sense of history because my parents were both deep history readers. But when I read Plain Speaking, which was, again, an oral biography, lots of interviews put together in an actual transcript form, I began to understand how a life came together and how a life could be written about and how a life could be reported. And given that I've spent a lot of my life writing biography, I look back and realize that book really profoundly impacted me. It was controversial later because Harry Truman protested a little bit and some things that he had said probably in his older age, but the way it looked at a life in 3D deeply impacted me.

[George Grant]

So now, what's the second book that influenced you and how did it deepen you or widen you, shape you well?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

George, I'm not doing this because you and I are on this program together, but in all truth and before God. The next book that impacted me was a book called Bringing in the Transforming Poverty into Productivity, which released in about 1985. I was the pastor of a spirit small activist church in Abilene, Texas. Remember? Now, I was raised in Europe, and we were trying to make an impact in our community. And I read this book, and it was the first book I read that really articulated biblical compassion for the poor, the downtrodden, the hurting. But it was what you did in bringing biblical theology and beefy, exciting Christian history to that subject that transformed this young pastor. We did everything you suggested. We had bags, grocery bags filled with peanut butter and all the stuff you recommended. We called it Isaiah 58. We put a mobile building in our yard. So I'm not just saying this because we're talking, you know, that bringing in the sheaves, transforming poverty into productivity in 1985 changed my life and by the way, thousands of others, because we started a lot of Isaiah 58s around the

[George Grant]

country and we got to know each other not too terribly long after that. After you moved to the Nashville area and you started another ministry called Isaiah 58 here.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Yeah, I found my church in downtown Nashville. And I gotta tell you, that's impacted thousands and thousands of people. So my point is not to brag about me. My point is to brag about your book. It is still having an impact on the streets of America.

[George Grant]

Okay, let's go on to your third book, Enough About Me.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

My third book was what I Saw at the A Political Life in the Reagan Era by Peggy Noonan. And it was about the Reagan era. It was about the Reagan revolution with Bush following. But it was the way that she wrote and the techniques that she used. She drew some techniques from John Dos Passos. She had ways of reflecting, writing about her own thoughts in a given experience, et cetera. It taught me some things about writing that I use to this day. It freed me as a young writer. And as you say, we met not long after and you gave me my first opportunity to write a book. And that book was very much in my head as I launched into my meager little literary career. So I'm very grateful for it in combination with all that you taught me earlier on.

[George Grant]

You know, she is such a wonderful writer. To this day, her editorials in the Wall Street Journal are just must reading every single week. She's a remarkable writer, even when I disagree with her. I love her writing. Three books, let's tie them together. What links them and how have they shaped the way you think, the way you work, the way you live?

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Well, your book deepened an understanding of a biblical worldview. And then I brought that to the other two books. In thinking about great lives, in thinking about biography, in thinking about the impact that even someone like me could have by obeying biblical truths, I'd have to say that what they did was they formed an understanding of leadership and impact on society that great leadership can have under the hand of God. And that's been with me ever since.

[George Grant]

Of course, Steven Mansfield is the best selling author and internationally sought after speaker, leadership coach, and my friend. His books, articles and podcasts are all available on his website. And that address is Steven Mansfield, tv. Stephen, thank you so much.

[Unknown Guest/Caller]

Great to be with you.

[Nick Eicher]

All right, time now to name the crew who helped with this week's program. Mary Reichert, David Bonson, Mary Munsey, Lauren Canterbury, Addie Offerins, Cal Thomas, Myrna Brown, Hunter Baker, Kim Henderson, Tyler o', Neill, Grace Snell, Daniel Sir, Colin Garbarino, George Grant, John Stonestreet and Josh Gagne. Thanks also to our breaking news crew, Kent Covington, Steve Klosterman, Travis, Daniel Devine and Christina Grube. And thanks to the guys who are up late so your program is ready. Early tech producers Benj Eicher and Carl Peetz. Harrison Waters is Washington producer. Kristin Flavin is features editor. Emma Eicher is assistant producer. I'm executive producer Nick Eicher.

[Lindsay Mast]

And I'm producer Lindsay Mast. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The Bible says, therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance producer produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly. Verses 1 through 6 of Romans 5. Have a wonderful weekend. Be sure to worship with a Bible believing church on Sunday. And Lord willing, we'll meet you right back here on Monday. Go now in grace and peace.