7.21.25 Legal Docket on homeless encampments, Moneybeat on inflation, and History Book on Benjamin Franklin’s postal system

Summary

Podcast Summary: The World and Everything In It Episode Title: Legal Docket on Homeless Encampments, Moneybeat on Inflation, and History Book on Benjamin Franklin’s Postal System
Host/Author: WORLD Radio
Release Date: July 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "The World and Everything In It," hosts Jenny Ruff and Nick Eicher delve into pressing issues surrounding homelessness, economic inflation, and a historical exploration of Benjamin Franklin’s contributions to the U.S. postal system. The episode seamlessly weaves personal narratives, expert analyses, and historical insights to provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these diverse topics.

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Legal Docket: Homeless Encampments and Supreme Court Ruling

Timestamp: [00:05] – [22:05]

Jenny Ruff opens the episode by highlighting a pivotal Supreme Court decision that upheld local bans on homeless encampments on public property a year ago. The discussion explores the real-world impact of this ruling through personal stories and legal analysis.

• Legal Background:
  Mark Mellinger outlines the situation in Grants Pass, Oregon, where anti-camping laws were enacted to address public health and safety concerns. These laws led to a class-action lawsuit arguing that such bans violate the Eighth Amendment's prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment by effectively penalizing individuals for sleeping outdoors—a basic human necessity.

• Personal Stories:
  Jennifer McDaniel shares her harrowing experience of homelessness, detailing the struggles of living on park benches, facing substance abuse issues, and the emotional toll it took when her boyfriend, Tomasz, overdosed.
  “I don't ever want to be homeless ever again. It's just not a lifestyle I choose,” [21:15] McDaniel expresses her determination to find stability and contribute positively to her community.

• Supreme Court Proceedings:
  The court ultimately ruled that the fines and jail time for camping bans were not cruel and unusual, as they were tied to conduct rather than status. Justice Neil Gorsuch, writing for the majority, emphasized that the Eighth Amendment pertains to methods of punishment, not the classification of individuals.
  “The anti camping bans were generally applicable laws that target conduct,” [18:40] Gorsuch stated.

• Ongoing Impact:
  Since the ruling, 150 cities across 32 states have implemented similar bans, with California experiencing a significant increase in local enforcement. The National Homelessness Law Center reports a surge in litigation challenging these laws under due process claims, suggesting a potential shift in legal strategies moving forward.

• Expert Insights:
  Joel Johnson, a law expert, provides a historical perspective on the Eighth Amendment, referencing the 1962 Robinson v. California case. He explains the nuanced debate between procedural and substantive due process and its relevance to current homelessness legislation.
  “The doctrine of due process is simply asking the question whether a law that purports to deprive someone of life, liberty or property is justified by a sufficient purpose,” [18:19] Johnson clarifies.

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Moneybeat: Understanding Inflation and Economic Policies

Timestamp: [23:03] – [33:13]

The episode transitions to the Moneybeat segment, where economist David Bonson provides an in-depth analysis of the current inflation landscape and its implications for the U.S. economy.

• Current Inflation Status:
  Bonson emphasizes that inflation remains a monetary phenomenon, referencing Milton Friedman’s principle that “inflation is always and forever a monetary phenomenon.” He critiques the politicization of inflation discourse, particularly President Trump’s interventionist stance on tariffs affecting consumer prices.
  “I don't believe government should be involved with that stuff,” [25:03] Bonson asserts, criticizing the notion that the government should dictate private sector pricing.

• Producer and Consumer Price Indices:
  Discussing recent data, Bonson distinguishes between general inflation and specific price movements caused by tariffs and supply chain disruptions. He highlights that while energy inputs have decreased, consumer electronics prices have risen, attributing these changes to targeted economic policies rather than broad monetary trends.

• Regulatory Environment and Housing Supply:
  Addressing the housing market, Bonson comments on the restrictive regulatory environment that hampers housing supply growth. He contrasts YIMBYism (Yes In My Backyard) with NIMBYism (Not In My Backyard), advocating for increased housing production to meet market demand and alleviate inflationary pressures on housing costs.
  “I want the production of more housing stock to let the market satisfy matters of supply and demand and prices level accordingly,” [27:55] he explains.

• Historical Economic Lessons:
  Bonson reflects on the 25th anniversary of the AOL-Time Warner merger, labeling it the “largest wealth wipeout in corporate history.” He underscores the importance of scrutinizing mergers and acquisitions, highlighting accounting pitfalls and the dangers of overvalued deals driven by vanity rather than sound economic reasoning.
  “This was the worst deal in American history. And maybe what we can just say out of an ending is, let's keep it that way,” [30:45] Bonson advises.

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History Book: Benjamin Franklin’s Postal Legacy

Timestamp: [33:38] – [39:30]

The History Book segment, narrated by Emma Eicher with contributions from Mark Mellinger, transports listeners back to the 18th century to explore Benjamin Franklin's transformative role in establishing the United States postal system.

• Franklin's Challenge and Transformation:
  Emma Eicher recounts Franklin’s intense confrontation with the British Privy Council in 1774, where he was publicly humiliated by Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn. This event was a catalyst for Franklin’s shift from a loyal British subject to a staunch advocate for American independence.
  “Franklin walked in an Englishman and walked out an American,” [35:52] highlights the turning point in his allegiance.

• Postal System Innovations:
  The segment details Franklin's revolutionary improvements to the postal network, reducing mail delivery times from months to just one day between major cities like Philadelphia and New York. He implemented efficient routes, employed horseback couriers, and established a reliable infrastructure that laid the foundation for today’s expansive U.S. Postal Service.
  “Under Franklin, delivery time went from months to weeks to one day,” [35:32] emphasizes his impact.

• Continental Congress and Legacy:
  Franklin’s appointment as Postmaster General of the United Colonies in 1775 further solidified his commitment to the fledgling nation. By the time he left office in 1776, the postal system had expanded significantly, setting the stage for the modern operations of the USPS.
  “America still uses the same routes Franklin carved out in more ways than one,” [37:34] underscores the enduring nature of his work.

• Modern-Day Reflections:
  The episode draws parallels between Franklin’s innovations and contemporary USPS challenges, such as delivering to remote areas using mules in the Grand Canyon and postal boats in Alabama. It also hints at future advancements like robotic mail carriers, showcasing the USPS’s continual evolution.
  “When you drop a letter in a mailbox, you probably don't give a thought as to how it reaches its destination,” [37:56] reflects on the unseen complexities of the postal system.

• Commemorative Honors:
  Emma Eicher concludes by noting the USPS’s 250th-anniversary tribute to Franklin with exclusive stamps, celebrating his monumental contributions to American communication and infrastructure.

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Conclusion

This episode of "The World and Everything In It" offers a multifaceted exploration of significant societal issues and historical milestones. Through personal narratives, expert commentary, and historical retrospection, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding homelessness policies, economic inflation, and the foundational work of Benjamin Franklin in shaping the United States postal system.

Notable Quotes:

• “I don't ever want to be homeless ever again. It's just not a lifestyle I choose.” — Jennifer McDaniel [21:15]
• “The anti camping bans were generally applicable laws that target conduct.” — Justice Neil Gorsuch [18:40]
• “Inflation is always and forever a monetary phenomenon.” — David Bonson [23:34]
• “I want the production of more housing stock to let the market satisfy matters of supply and demand and prices level accordingly.” — David Bonson [27:55]
• “Franklin walked in an Englishman and walked out an American.” — Mark Mellinger [35:52]

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Transcript

[Jenny Ruff]

Good morning. It's been a full year since the supreme court okayed local bans on homeless encampments on public property. But has it made a difference?

[Nick Eicher]

That's ahead today on legal docket. Also today, the Monday money beat. Economist David Bonson is standing by. We will take Stock on the 25th anniversary of the worst business deal ever made. What economic lessons stick and the world history book today, a founding father, lesser known legacy.

[Mark Mellinger]

Franklin realized there is no future for me or for people like me within the British empire.

[Jenny Ruff]

It's Monday, July 21st. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported world radio. I'm Jenny Ruff.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.

[Jenny Ruff]

Up next, Mark Mellinger with today's news.

[Mark Mellinger]

A U. S. Brokered ceasefire in southern Syria appears to be holding. Syria's government says there were no reports of gunfire Sunday between Bedouin tribes and the majority Druze group in Suwaida province. The deal was struck Saturday and Syrian president Ahmed al Sharra translated through an interpreter says his government won't tolerate violations. The Syrian state is committed to protecting.

[David Bonson]

All minorities in the country and is.

[Mark Mellinger]

Proceeding to hold all violators accountable. There is a history of tension and clashes between the Bedouins and Druze, both offshoots of Islam. The latest fighting started after members of a Bedouin tribe attacked and robbed a Druze man last week. Syrian government troops intervened in the fighting, prompting Israeli airstrikes on Damascus. Hundreds of Israeli Druze had crossed into Syria to help with the fighting and Israel said it carried out the strikes to protect the Druze. After hopes for a ceasefire in Gaza washed out last week, the conflict is once again intensifying. Sunday was reportedly the deadliest day of the conflict for Palestinians seeking food and other help, according to the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry. It reports Israeli gunfire killed at least 85 people Sunday, a day after it claimed 32 were killed Saturday. Israel says it's aware of the casualty claim and is still examining details. Dr. Travis Mellon is an anesthesiologist working in Gaza.

[Nick Eicher]

Sadly, no, this is not an abnormal day.

[Mark Mellinger]

The days where we don't have a mass casualty are kind of the surprising ones. Israel says it issued warnings to residents in several different parts of Gaza to stay away from combat zones. It also says its troops fired warning shots Sunday to remove an immediate threat posed to them when a gathering of thousands of gaz was identified in the northern Gaza Strip. Ukraine is offering to meet with Russia for a third round of peace talks to end the ongoing war between the two countries. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is calling on Russian leaders to meet next week for ceasefire talks. The latest round of talks in June ended after about an hour. This comes as the White House threatens new sanctions if Russia doesn't end the war soon. Democratic Congressman Adam Smith tells Fox News Sunday President Trump needs to now act with clarity after pressuring Ukraine in the early months of his second term.

[David Bonson]

The rhetoric has changed ever so slightly in the Trump administration in the last week or two, but we got a.

[Nick Eicher]

Long way to go for the Trump.

[David Bonson]

Administration to make it clear that we're with Ukraine and we're going to stand with Ukraine and we're going to stop Putin from taking over the country. If that happens, that can force Putin to the table.

[Mark Mellinger]

A Kremlin spokesman says Putin is ready to move toward a peace settlement, but Moscow's main objective is to achieve its goals. Russia has stepped up its drone and missile attacks on Ukraine significantly over the past few weeks. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick says President Trump will be renegotiating one of the signature trade deals from his first term, the U.S. mexico Canada Agreement, or USMCA. Under the deal, as it stands now, 75% of goods from Mexico and Canada come into the U.S. tariff free. But Lutnick tells CBS's Face the Nation that doesn't benefit America.

[David Bonson]

It makes perfect sense for the president to renegotiate it. He wants to protect American jobs. He doesn't want cars built in Canada.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

Or Mexico when they could be built.

[David Bonson]

In Michigan or Ohio.

[Mark Mellinger]

Lutnick says negotiations could be as much as a year away. A revamped deal would extend the USMC another 16 years. Republicans in Texas are holding a special legislative session to redraw the state's congressional maps this week. President Trump is pushing for the move, hoping it'll create a handful of winnable new U.S. house seats for the GOP in next year's midterm elections. Democrats, however, are thinking about staying away from this week's special session, potentially denying the state legislature the minimum number of lawmakers to convene with. Former Democratic Texas Congressman Beto o' Rourke says that's the right move.

[Nick Eicher]

I think it's time that we match fire with fire.

[Jenny Ruff]

I think Democrats in the past too.

[David Bonson]

Often have been more concerned with being.

[Nick Eicher]

Right than being in power.

[Mark Mellinger]

The purpose of the special session isn't only to redraw the maps. Lawmakers will also address flood response measures after that devastating July 4th flooding in Central Texas that killed at least 135 people. Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton says Any Democrats who don't attend should be arrested. US Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard has forwarded documents about the Obama administration to the Justice Department for possible criminal referrals. Gabbard says the documents show top Obama White House officials falsified intelligence information in 2016 to make it look like Russian interference had played a role in Donald Trump's election. Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas tells Fox.

[Nick Eicher]

News there are new documents that are showing that President Obama was in the.

[David Bonson]

Room and they did this conspiracy to try to throw out this misinformation to.

[Nick Eicher]

Try to address, make this an illegitimate election.

[Mark Mellinger]

Gabbard did not specify whether she's referring specific officials for possible prosecution. Democrats say Gabbard's claims are baseless. They point to a Republican led Senate report from 2020 that shows Russia tried to help Trump through social media but found no evidence Russian tampering with the actual voting process. I'm Mark Mellinger. Straight ahead revisiting a Supreme Court decision on banning homeless encampments on public property. And later, a founding father's lesser known legacy. This is the world and everything in it.

[Jenny Ruff]

Jennifer McDaniel felt helpless as paramedics worked to save her boyfriend, a guy named Tomasz.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

They pumped on his chest and I was just watching them.

[Jenny Ruff]

Tomasz had overdosed crack, crack cocaine. McDaniel had been homeless for much of her adult life, at one point living on the streets with Tomasz.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

We were homeless in Georgia, sleeping on park benches, walking around. That was one of the scarier times.

[Jenny Ruff]

They scrounged gas stations for free food.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

And you can go in there and get a little tiny cup like this big, this big. You can taste their chili or you can test out their soup. And we go there and get a bunch of crackers. And if that's all we had during the day was a little tiny paper cup of chili. And then we started panhandling.

[Jenny Ruff]

McDaniels spent her money on French fries. She didn't do drugs. Tomasz did. And it was the last thing he did.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

I don't know how he was doing it, but he blew his lung out and he was in. He actually flatlined on the way to the hospital. And then they told me to go down the other way because I was just sitting there bawling my eyes out.

[Jenny Ruff]

After Tomasz died, McDaniel returned to her home, Oregon, a small city tucked in the Rogue Valley, Grants Pass. But despite the miles, she wound up in much the same place, this time with a homeless man named Joe. At one point, they lived in an SUV parked at Riverside Park. And it wasn't just the two of them. McDaniel's sister lived in the car with.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

Them and her three kids and my mama and three dogs. One was Fatso, Buster and Princess, me and Joseph in the front seat. My mom and two of the kids were in the middle and my sister and her little baby and the dogs in the back.

[Jenny Ruff]

Riverside park was a place that had become a flashpoint in the city's effort to address homelessness. Legal controversy around the policy would land Grants Pass. At the epicenter of a U.S. supreme Court case last year, Grants Pass had put in place anti camping laws banning people like McDaniel from sleeping outside in public, including the tent cities that had sprouted up in Riverside park and others. It also prohibited what she was doing sleeping in cars on public property, something McDaniel says is hardly a luxury.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

My legs just felt so big. They were leaking. So I had really big wounds on my whole leg, both my legs, and they were this big. You can't be whole homeless and I have health problems.

[Jenny Ruff]

It's Monday, 21st July. Glad to have you along for today's edition of the World and everything in it. Good morning. I'm Jenny Ruff.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Eicher. Time now for legal docket. Policymakers in Grants Pass said the bans were meant to promote public health and safety. The theory was the likelihood of fines and jail time would steer the homeless into services and shelters like the Gospel Rescue Mission. I mean, last year we had a.

[David Bonson]

Pretty low amount of people come through our program. I had like 375 people come through our program.

[Nick Eicher]

Brian Boteler is executive director of the mission in Grants Pass.

[David Bonson]

Here's the thing. A third of those people that came into our program left with a sustainable income and a home. I got a third of them out of homelessness.

[Nick Eicher]

But because of the laws, homeless people ran for the courthouse. Instead, lawyers corralled a group of them into a class action lawsuit. Their claim was that the anti camping bands run afoul of the eighth Amendment's cruel and unusual punishment clause. Cruel and unusual, they said, because the laws essentially punished them for sleeping outside. And sleep is a biological necessity. The the court ultimately held the limited fines and jail time were not cruel and unusual. And whether the outside part was a necessity wasn't an 8th amendment question anyway. So it found no constitutional violation and upheld the bans. Today we unpack that decision and find out what's happened in the years since.

[Jenny Ruff]

Let me acknowledge that the full story has two Big pieces. Law and policy. Today we focus on the law. I made a reporting trip to Grants Pass last April, right before the Supreme Court heard oral argument in the case. Being there made it easy to see why the city passed these laws. Before I even got to Riverside park, three locals warned me, leave nothing visible in the rental car. Lock the doors. Theft is commonplace. The moment I stepped into the parking lot, the stench of marijuana smoke filled the air. But at first glance, I only saw Riverside Park's beauty. Ponderosa pines soared. The redbuds were in bloom. Ducks waddled along the banks of the Rogue River. But it was otherwise eerily empty, the playground abandoned. Parents no longer brought their kids because of drug deals and disorderly conduct. The disc golf course had been taken over by about 30 tents, two porta potties, and everywhere you looked, garbage.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

They call this stuff outside of our tents rubbish.

[Jenny Ruff]

Rachel considers it treasure, not trash. She lived in a green tent on a small hill.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

And it's actually our life belongings and if they don't like how we have it, they'll throw our whole tents, our whole life away in the trash can.

[Jenny Ruff]

Rachel said she didn't do. But it was hard to believe she did admit substance abuse was widespread in the camp.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

Alcohol, meth, you have fentanyl and that. That's just taking a toll on a lot of the younger ones because they're like they don't have nothing to look forward to anymore. You know, it's like, ho hum, why work so hard when we're not going to get nothing from it?

[Jenny Ruff]

She said living there gets even more stressful when the weather turns cold. The Gospel Rescue Mission right down the street had empty beds and warm blankets. But Rachel wouldn't pay the price.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

You have to stop smoking, drinking, ET cigarettes, everything, any controlled substance. And you can't just cut people off like that and expect them just to be able to be able to cope without having breakdowns.

[Jenny Ruff]

Every few days she had to move. Law enforcement came through to make sure all people in the tents regularly cleared out. The ninth Circuit had issued a a temporary injunction that prevented the city from fully enforcing the anti camping bans until the case was ultimately resolved.

[Nick Eicher]

But when it comes to homelessness, which is a terribly difficult problem, you're saying that's different.

[Jenny Ruff]

Eleven days after my trip to Grants Pass, I was inside the Supreme Court for the arguments. Nowhere near the complicated reality on the ground. And that reality is far more than merely finding a place to sleep. Sleep. The shelters are there with empty beds. But to the extent they're rejected, the rejection Is of structure and accountability.

[Nick Eicher]

If the place of the court is to get into the muck, its job is to get into the muck of the law and constitutional principles. For example, the broad question of whether the camping bans are legal. And generally, when it comes to criminal laws like these, states are free to tailor them.

[Joel Johnson]

States have a lot of latitude to define criminal liability however they want.

[Jenny Ruff]

Joel Johnson is an attorney formerly with the Department of Justice and now teaches at Caruso School of Law. He filed a friend of the court brief in this case. He says the eighth Amendment challenge in the Grants Pass case may seem odd.

[Joel Johnson]

Because the eighth Amendment had been thought to apply only to issues related to what type of punishment could be imposed after someone had been found guilty of a crime.

[Jenny Ruff]

Like methods of execution in death penalty cases.

[Joel Johnson]

It had not been previously understood to put limits sort of on the front end of what could be made criminal in the first place.

[Nick Eicher]

And generally, it's still thought of as limiting types of punishment, not types of crimes. But then there's this odd supreme court case from 1962, Robinson vs. California. A California state law had made it a crime to be addicted to narcotics. Defendant Robert Robinson was an addict who was arrested under that law, but he said it violated his 8th amendment right. It was cruel and unusual punishment because it would force him to quit drugs cold turkey in jail. Johnson says this novel argument was probably due to nothing more than sloppy litigation.

[Joel Johnson]

Robinson's lawyer strategy seemed to have been just throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. There's about a dozen different arguments for why that California addiction law was unconstitutional. And the 8th Amendment argument looked like a throwaway argument.

[Jenny Ruff]

The argument that made more sense, a 14th Amendment, one that says no state shall deprive a person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. That was also one of Robinson's strands of spaghetti. But back in 1962, the 14th Amendment was more limited than it is today. It's always encompassed procedural rights, meaning everybody has a right to a fair trial. But throughout the Supreme Court's history, some justices had flirted with extending it to also mean substantive rights, rights that aren't expressly listed in the Constitution. They're inferred.

[Nick Eicher]

Quick word here on procedural versus substantive due process. Just think, procedural due process is like instant replay. Did the receiver have control of the ball, or did he not? Did the officials follow the rules? Substantive due process asks whether the rule itself makes sense. Why does a slight bobble on the ground erase an otherwise obvious catch? Procedural due process judges the replay. Substantive due process judges the rule book. And for that reason, it's controversial in the law.

[Joel Johnson]

That label is sort of often associated with culture war cases like the abortion cases, gay marriage cases.

[Nick Eicher]

It's still a hot topic and a pet peeve of conservative Justices, especially Clarence Thomas. But substantive due process isn't only a question in culture war cases. It's broader than that. It comes up in criminal law cases, too.

[Joel Johnson]

The doctrine of due process is simply asking the question whether a law that purports to deprive someone of life, liberty or property is justified by a sufficient purpose. In other words, at a minimum, there can't be an arbitrary purpose.

[Jenny Ruff]

But in 1962, the court had not yet held that. So although the debate bubbled up during the Robinson case, the Court simply was not ready to adopt it. So to justify striking down the law making drug addiction a crime, the Court pulled another argument from the mess of defenses.

[Joel Johnson]

Here's this random piece of spaghetti on the wall. 8th amendment. Let's go that route.

[Nick Eicher]

The Court held that arresting Robinson amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, not because it would require him to quit drugs cold turkey, as he had argued, but because punishment for a crime has to be tied to a person's conduct, like buying, possessing, or selling drugs, not a person's status, like simply existing as a drug addict. So that's why the plaintiffs and Grants Pass case brought the 8th amendment claim. They had relied on Robinson to say that they were being punished for their status. The Supreme Court didn't buy it. Justice Neil Gorsuch, writing the 6 to 3 opinion that the 8th Amendment is about methods of punishment. He said the anti camping bans were generally applicable laws that target conduct. So in that sense, he confirmed the basic principle of Robinson that criminal laws do need to be tied to conduct. But he noted that the eighth Amendment was a poor foundation for that principle. He suggested it would make more sense to bring challenges to anti camping bans under a due process theory. Justice Sonia Sotomayor brought that up in her dissent.

[Joel Johnson]

Near the end, she draws attention to the fact that the majority left open this possibility of due process protection. In these circumstances, it makes pretty clear that the Court would at least be open to some further arguments under a due process theory.

[Jenny Ruff]

And in the year that's passed, that's exactly what happened. According to the National Homelessness Law center, since the Supreme Court's decision, 150 cities across 32 states have passed anti camping laws.

[Nick Eicher]

California alone accounts for about a quarter of the nation's homeless population. That state in particular has seen a surge in local bans. And right on their heels, another round of litigation and arguments like it's a due process violation when the law bans things the homeless consider survival gear, like blankets and tents.

[Jenny Ruff]

And in Grants Pass, Bow Teller of the Gospel Rescue Mission says he's still less than half full. An Oregon law that requires cities to make objectively reasonable accommodations has made clearing the camps difficult. We'll come back to the issue of homeless people being so deeply addicted that they want to choose death over what could be life in Christ. Grant's Pass begins to force the issue, removing the option of camping in public spaces. For Jennifer, she chose the shelter.

[Jennifer McDaniel]

I don't ever want to be homeless ever again. It's just not a lifestyle I choose. I don't want to, I don't want to be cold. I don't want to be scared. I don't want to be not being able to rest. Yes, I want to be able to be productive and give back to people that I know pour their love into me. I want to pour to others. Yes, like God tells us to love others.

[Jenny Ruff]

Bow Teller told me he's not heard from Rachel.

[Nick Eicher]

But it's really hard for the average person to get their head around. And we just think, well, if I were in that situation, I would want to come in.

[David Bonson]

And this is not what's happening here.

[Nick Eicher]

You know, sin's not rational.

[David Bonson]

I keep hoping that if we tell.

[Nick Eicher]

The story long enough that people will want to come and go, wow, maybe I can change.

[David Bonson]

Maybe there's some hope for me.

[Jenny Ruff]

And that's this week's legal docket.

[Nick Eicher]

Additional support comes from Cedarville University equipping students for professional excellence and gospel impact. Cedarville. Eduardo from Dort University offering fast track ag degrees to help graduates make an impact in agriculture sooner Dort. Edu and from the Joshua program at St. Dunstan's Academy in Virginia, a gap year shaping young men through trades, farming, prayer. Stdunstonsacademy.org.

[Jenny Ruff]

Coming up next on THE world and everything in it, the Monday Money beat.

[Nick Eicher]

Time now to talk business, markets and the economy with financial analyst and advisor David Bonson. David heads up the wealth management firm, the Bonson Group. He is here now. Good morning to you, David.

[David Bonson]

Good morning, Nick. Good to be with you.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, David, let's begin with the big picture. We just got fresh consumer price index and producer price index numbers. So set the table for us. What do these reports and the other data you're watching tell you about the current state of inflation and the overall economy?

[David Bonson]

Well, one of the things I've decided I really want to do on MoneyBeat is not hold back in trying to give a more thorough explanation about inflation, because sometimes I can't do it on television. You have a limited amount of time and they're going for kind of a quick, you know, thing are prices higher or prices lower? And it's a political thing, right? Is this going to be bad for President Trump or was it bad for President Biden about prices, Inflation economically, Nick, and I really hope listeners can understand all this because it's important. Inflation is always and forever a monetary phenomena. That's a quote from the great Milton Friedman. Too much money chasing too few goods and services. He didn't say and services. But the point being an economy made up of the goods and services, if there's too much money chasing those goods and services, then that's what's called inflation. And so you want responsible level of money supply relative to the size of the economy. And when we talk right now about inflation, this last week, as the consumer price index number came out, the producer price index number came out, as everyone's wondering if Jay Powell at the Fed is thinking there's inflation that will affect what he does with interest rates. Nobody's talking about that inflation. They're talking about whether or not prices come up from tariffs. And I believe that it is a bizarre conversation that anybody would wonder if prices would go higher because of their cost going higher. Of course they would. And President Trump had sent a really, I think, troublesome tweet or social media post out on Friday threatening Walmart, saying, you already make enough money, you already made billions of profits. Don't raise your prices because of tariffs. And that is most certainly not something I want to see from the president talking to the private sector about what amount of profit they're allowed to make and what they ought to be doing with their cost. I don't believe government should be involved with that stuff. The issue with, for example, the producer price index, you saw energy inputs come down as oil prices were lower, and you saw consumer electronics, wholesale prices go up quite a bit. But see, that's not inflation. That's a particular impact from one and a different impact on another. Politically, I totally accept that people go to the grocery store and see prices higher because of tariffs. That's what I call political inflation. It's going to be problematic. But the overall price level going up is a monetary phenomena. And so I understand that it may be semantics to some people. Did prices go up or not? That's all I think inflation is. Tariffs are if tariffs are implemented, that's the other piece is people are wondering where inflation is from tariffs that haven't happened. But if tariffs increase prices of some things that will be talked about, it will be problematic. I don't think it has anything to do with the Fed. I don't think it has anything to interest rates. And it is only inflation as a monetary phenomena. If it leads to production of less goods and services, because then you might have the same money supply but less goods and services because of less trade, that can become inflationary. So there are a lot of nuance in this, but it's important nuance and unfortunately it doesn't lend to a quick did this hurt a politician or not hurt a politician? That's what people are going for. That's most often what the media is going for. But it's a little bit more complicated of a subject than that.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, David, you have long noted it's a tight regulatory environment that chokes housing supply off. Now Barack Obama is telling Democrats much the same thing. Last week he said you all had better get behind an abundance agenda or keep losing elections. Do you think the former president is genuinely pro growth here or is this just a different brand of pro growth rhetoric?

[David Bonson]

Yes and no. It's. It's an important distinction you've helped tee up because there are plenty of people in the yimbyism movement. The yes in my backyard, which I'm a part of, as opposed to the NIMBYism movement. The not in my backyard, which is what he's criticizing. There are plenty of people that make strange bedfellows. Okay? In other words, they may be in agreement on a certain conclusion, but coming at it from a different reason. There are plenty of people that are driven by something very different than I am. I want the production of more housing stock to let the market satisfy matters of supply and demand and prices level accordingly. And I believe that NIMBYism is an artificial distortion to market forces caused by a whole number of things. Environmental interventions and often just cultural interventions, which is usually what people on the right are guilty of. That in affluent neighborhoods, right wing people just say, I don't want new growth anymore. I like my life how it is. I don't need a new apartment building, you know, down the street. I don't need new traffic or parking or whatnot. And so they want to use zoning laws to kind of impact because they don't want the noise or the construction or the interruption. President Obama is likely as a lot of the center left abundance people. Ezra Klein has A new book along these lines that I generally liked. But again, they're not necessarily coming at it because they're desiring market forces to drive it, but they are after a similar outcome which is removing impediments to get more housing stock built. And in the end, do I think that yimbyism, center left yimbyism would actually want to see governmental subsidies to drive more low income housing? I think it would, and that's not what I mean by the term. So I guess I'm giving him a mixed report Guard. He's probably saying something I agree with but for a little different reason and more than likely would end up proposing somewhat different solutions. That's been my experience with left wing or more progressive yimbyist.

[Nick Eicher]

Well, David, this month marks 25 years since the blockbuster AOL Time Warner corporate merger. It's still the textbook example of how to destroy shareholder value. You've called this the largest wealth wipeout in corporate history. Would you walk us through what went wrong and the key lessons we would be wise to keep front of mind today?

[David Bonson]

Well, there's the obvious sense that a lot of mergers and acquisitions in corporate America are vanity driven and should be avoided for that reason. But what I would say is more stark here is that you had a logic and an intuition that said why is this company that has far inferior revenues, inferior earnings and a much less dependable, reliable, proven business plan. How are they swallowing up a company that has Time Magazine, Life magazine, hbo, Turner Broadcasting, cnn, Sports Illustrated, Warner Brothers, Warner Music. This Time Warner Group that AOL swallowed up was iconic and real. And using this preposterous stock price of AOL based on smoke and mirrors. So the takeaways are, first of all, accounting matters. When you're looking at something that is what's called heavy on goodwill and trying to justify it as opposed to more traditional accounting metrics that are a little more reliable. It doesn't mean that all of it is always going to go astray, but at least have more scrutiny, more validation. And then ultimately I make the argument too that when they say we're going to grow the numbers this way, and even then, if they had, it was basically leading to a place that wasn't really all that attractive. They were never going to grow it the way they said, but even if they had, it didn't justify what the deal was. You were just dealing with something that looked like a bubble, felt like a bubble, quacked like a bubble, and people refused to call it a bubble. And a couple hundred billion dollars later. You know that at one point, the combined market cap of this deal was over $300 billion, and they were projecting to get to 580. Well, in 2018, AOL sold from Verizon to Apollo with Yahoo for 4 billion. Okay, so hundreds of billions of dollars set on fire and a lot of lives ruined, a lot of careers ruined. But a very valuable lesson learned. Whether you're adjusting for inflation or not, this was the worst deal in American history. And maybe what we can just say out of an ending is, let's keep it that way. Let's never ever do another deal this bad again.

[Nick Eicher]

All right? David Bonson is founder, managing partner and chief investment officer at the Bonson Group. He writes regularly for World opinions [e-mail] David, thank you so much. We'll see you next week.

[David Bonson]

Thanks so much, Nick.

[Jenny Ruff]

Today is Monday, July 21st. Good morning. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Jenny Ruff.

[Nick Eicher]

And I'm Nick Icker. Next up, the world history Book. The US Postal Service processes millions of pieces of mail each day, and it promises to deliver to even the most remote addresses.

[Jenny Ruff]

But it was not always that way. 250 years ago, a founding father traveled on horseback to help create the post office system we still have today. World's Emma eicher reports.

[Emma Eicher]

On January 29, 1774, Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin appeared in front of the British Privy Council in London. And he was brought there under false pretenses. He stood in the middle of the room while angry councillors and nosy citizens surrounded him. Franklin thought this subject at hand was to replace two colonial officials. But the British Solicitor General, Alexander Wedderburn, had other plans. Colonial frustration at the British Empire had been brewing. Wedderburn suspected Franklin was spreading sedition among the colonies and that he was using his position as Postmaster General for the Crown to do it. So Wedderburn decided to make an example of him. He insulted Franklin and accused him of treason. The diatribe lasted for an hour. Audio from an interview with John C. Van Horn, director at the Library Company of Philadelphia, and courtesy of a biography documentary.

[Mark Mellinger]

The Solicitor General took the occasion to excoriate and vilify and humiliate Franklin. And the berating of Franklin went on for an hour. And Franklin stood there silently and took it all.

[Emma Eicher]

Then Wedderburn dismissed Franklin as Postmaster General. But that turned out to be a big mistake. Before this, Franklin had been moderate in his attitude toward the British Empire. He urged compromise with his frustrated colonial friends.

[Mark Mellinger]

He considered himself a British Empire man. He was a true Briton. He loved the empire, thought well of it, and believed that America had a very firm and solid place in the imperial scheme.

[Emma Eicher]

But now he was furious at losing his title. Audio from a PBS interview with biographer HW Brands.

[Mark Mellinger]

Franklin walked in an Englishman and walked out an American. At that point, Franklin realized, there is no future for me or for people like me within the British Empire.

[Emma Eicher]

It was a great loss for England. For years, Franklin had worked hard to completely transform the post office network in the colonies. Before Franklin, people dropped off letters at inns and taverns. They hoped sailors would deliver them when they could. That meant it could take months for people to receive any mail at all. For local mail, faithful travelers delivered it on their routes. But that was also unreliable. So Franklin crafted a network in the colonies that worked efficiently and quickly. He surveyed roads around the country to establish the best postal routes. And he had workers ride horseback through the night to deliver bags of mail in the morning. Under Franklin, delivery time went from months to weeks to one day. In just 24 hours, Philadelphians could send a letter to New York and get a reply. Now Franklin turned to other means to aid the revolution against Britain. But he didn't have to wait long for another job. In 1775, the colonies schemed to set up their own postal service to compete with the empire. And they knew just the man to run it. On July 26, 250 years ago, the Continental Congress appointed Franklin as Postmaster General of the United Colonies. He immediately set to work again to improve the mail system. And when he Left office in 1776, there were 75 post offices in the country. Nowadays, there are more than 31,000. Audio from a 1948 Postal Service documentary courtesy of Periscope Film.

[Nick Eicher]

Biggest retail business in the world today is the United States Post Office, devoted exclusively to the service of its owners, the American public.

[Emma Eicher]

America still uses the same routes Franklin carved out in more ways than one. Today, the I95 highway from Florida to Maine is the same road postal workers first traveled on horseback in the 18th century.

[Nick Eicher]

When you drop a letter in a mailbox, you probably don't give a thought as to how it reaches its destination.

[Emma Eicher]

And the post office still has to get creative with how they transport mail to remote locations. In the Grand Canyon, mules carry mail down steep pathways. And in Alabama, small postal boats chug along the Magnolia river, delivering to homes on the water year round. In the near future, you might even see a robot delivering your mail, because the postal service is looking into using mechanical helpers.

[Nick Eicher]

For the United States Post Office, as it has since it was founded, still provides the one means of communication which reaches into every corner of the land, facilitating the exchange of news and ideas which has helped to make America great.

[Emma Eicher]

Benjamin Franklin's likeness has appeared on more than 130 postage stamps. And this month the USPS will release exclusive Franklin stamps in honor of America's 250th birthday, a small token of his enduring legacy. That's this week's world history book. I'm Emma Eicher.

[Nick Eicher]

Tomorrow, Afghan refugees in the under temporary protected status have to find another solution or else risk deportation. Will have an update. And how do you top a trip to the moon? You'll hear firsthand from the youngest of the still living moonwalkers, astronaut Charlie Duke. That and more tomorrow. I'm Nick Icker.

[Jenny Ruff]

And I'm Jenny Ruff. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires. The Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Psalm 19, verse 1, go now in grace and peace.