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The World and Everything In It
8.25.25 The end of affirmative action, the Fed’s possible rate-cuts, and the Americans with Disabilities Act
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- [00:06]
Jenny Ruff
Good morning. Today on legal docket, the rise and fall of affirmative action.
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David Bonson
Every time the government uses racial criteria purporting to bring the races together, someone gets excluded.
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Nick Eicher
And the Monday money beat. Today, economist David Bonson on Fed chair Jay Powell's rate cut hints and the central bank's bold economic experiments. Later, the world history book. This month, the 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
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David Bonson
I think that's what the ADA did.
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Kent Covington
Was create intentionality in our culture to.
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David Bonson
Include people with disability.
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Jenny Ruff
It's Monday, August 25th. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Jenny Ruff.
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Nick Eicher
And I'm Nick Eicher. Good morning.
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Jenny Ruff
Up next, Kent Covington with today's news.
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Kent Covington
Many nations and world leaders joined Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy Sunday in marking Ukraine's Independence Day, 34 years after it declared independence from the Soviet Union. In Paris, the Eiffel Tower was aglow with blue and yellow lights, the colors of the Ukrainian flag. And in Kyiv, Zelenskyy greeted senior European officials and Canada's prime minister at a defence forum.
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Nick Eicher
We are very thankful to your leaders, governments and to yourself. Thank you so much for your long term support for Ukraine.
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Kent Covington
Zelenskyy awarded US Envoy Keith Kellogg with the Ukrainian Order of Merit, first Class. He said that was for Kellogg's work to help strengthen Ukraine and bilateral relations. Zelenskyy also thanked President Trump for his letter. In it, Trump praised the country's unbreakable spirit and courage. He also added that the United States supports a negotiated settlement that leads to a durable, lasting peace that ends the bloodshed in and safeguards Ukraine's sovereignty. But Democratic Senator Jack Reid says we are no closer to a negotiated settlement. After recent U.S. meetings with Russian leaders, including Vladimir Putin.
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David Bonson
Nothing has resulted from these meetings. Putin remains obstinate, refusing to consider anything other than surrender of Ukrainian territory, which I think would be a prelude just.
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Kent Covington
To a future attack. Reid said he did not care for the red carpet treatment Putin was afforded during his recent meeting with President Trump in Alaska. But Vice President J.D. vance told NBC's Meet the Press that Democrats criticism rings hollow.
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David Bonson
Frankly, President Trump has done more to apply pressure and to apply economic leverage to the Russians certainly than Joe Biden did for three and a half years when he did nothing but talk but do nothing to bring the killing to a stop. So you ask me what I'm enraged by. What I'm enraged by is the continuation of the war.
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Kent Covington
Russian forces are once again advancing in Ukraine's east, seizing two more villages over the weekend. Moscow claims to now control about 20% of Ukraine's territory. The Vice president on Sunday also pushed back against accusations of political targeting by the Trump administration after the FBI raided the home and office of former Trump adviser turned critic John Bolton. Prominent Democratic Senator Adam Schiff called the raid targeted retaliation against Trump dissenters and But Vance fired back, accusing Democrats of weaponizing the Justice Department under President Biden.
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David Bonson
We don't think that we should throw people, even if they disagree with us politically, maybe especially if they disagree with us politically. You shouldn't throw people willy nilly in prison.
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Nick Eicher
You should let the law drive these.
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David Bonson
Determinations and that's what we're doing in 2020.
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Kent Covington
Bolton published a memoir which detailed his brief tenure as Trump's national security adviser. Months later, the Department of Justice opened a criminal probe into whether his book disclosed classified information, but the Biden Justice Department closed that investigation the following year. Last week, FBI agents raided Bolton's home in Maryland and his Washington office, likely searching for classified material. No charges have been filed. Residents in New York City will elect their next mayor just a little over two months from now, and former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is taking aim at the frontrunner. He noted that Democratic nominee Zoran Mamdani, a self proclaimed Democratic socialist, wants to hike taxes on corporations.
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David Bonson
It's antithetical to New York City to be anti corporate. New York City corporations are already high taxed as are the individuals and I think it would be a death knell for New York City and he is dangerous frankly for New York City.
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Kent Covington
Mamdani also wants to freeze rent for many residents, provide free buses, free childcare and open city owned grocery stores. Cuomo, who was elected governor three times as a Democrat, is now running for mayor as an independent, as is the incumbent, another former Democrat, Eric Adams. The latest polls show Mamdani with a comfortable double digit lead over the rest of the crowded field. A Florida judge over the weekend denied bond to a truck driver arrested after a fatal crash earlier this month. The driver, Arjunder Singh, is charged with vehicular homicide and immigration violations. The judge said Singh is considered an unauthorized alien and a high flight risk. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis slammed leaders in California where Singh was licensed.
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David Bonson
They issued a commercial driver's license to an illegal alien who didn't speak English, worked for a California company and he ended up killing three people in Florida recently and we're now holding him accountable.
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Kent Covington
Authorities say singh entered the US illegally from Mexico in 2018. He he is accused of making an illegal U turn that killed three people. Wildfires in California, wine country and central Oregon are expanding, forcing hundreds of evacuations. In California, officials say the Picket fire in Napa county had grown to more than 10 square miles as of Sunday. And in Oregon, the Flat fire had grown to almost 34 square miles. Officials say that fire is threatening nearly 4,000 homes and some 10,000 people are under some sort of evacuation notice. I'm Kent Covington. And straight ahead revisiting The Supreme Court's 2023 decision prohibiting race based admissions, plus considering rate cuts by the Fed on Monday. Money Beat with David Bonson. This IS the WORLD and everything in.
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Nick Eicher
It'S Monday, 25th August. Glad to have you along for today's edition of THE WORLD and Everything In It. Good morning. I'm Nick Unger.
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Jenny Ruff
And I'm Jenny Ruff. Just over two years ago, the Supreme Court struck down race based college admissions programs.
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David Bonson
Such discrimination is plainly and boldly unconstitutional.
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Jenny Ruff
Justice Clarence Thomas announcing his concurrence in the decision earlier this month, August 7, the White House moved to ensure compliance with it.
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Mary Muncie
President Trump wants to bring more transparency.
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Jenny Ruff
To the college admissions process, saying the.
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Mary Muncie
Move will ensure that meritocracy and excellence characterize American higher education.
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David Bonson
The president is expected to sign an executive order directing education secretary Linda McMahon to revamp a federal database. They are just going to look at whether there's a racial disparity in test scores.
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Mary Muncie
And now he's saying many schools are not following a Supreme Court decision that essentially barred affirmative action.
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Jenny Ruff
The Trump administration wants to pressure schools to conform to those measures to the.
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Mary Muncie
Exclusion of black students and other students of color. What they can't do is determine that.
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Nick Eicher
Someone is a minority and maybe give.
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Mary Muncie
Them more points in the admissions process.
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David Bonson
The Trump administration says it wants to shine a light on how colleges decide who gets in and who doesn't.
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Nick Eicher
Last fall was the first year that colleges and universities had data on freshman class demographics following the court decision.
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Jenny Ruff
This year is year two. So let's unpack the decision and evaluate the new landscape.
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David Bonson
These cases involve the admissions systems used by Harvard College and the University of North Carolina.
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Jenny Ruff
Chief justice of the United States John Roberts. He's reading from the bench on June 29, 2023, the day the court announced the opinion in Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard and Students for Fair Admissions versus The University of North Carolina.
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Nick Eicher
Now typically we don't get to hear the justices announcing the court's opinions from the bench on legal docket. You do get to hear clips from oral arguments, but that's because recordings of the arguments are released same. The Court holds on to recordings of opinions for about a year before releasing them.
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Jenny Ruff
Robert started with a brief summary of the facts.
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David Bonson
Both schools acknowledge that they use race as one factor in making their admissions decisions and that race is a decisive factor for some of the students that they admit.
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Jenny Ruff
Students saw the issue through the lens of fairness. I love that part of UNC is being in the classes and developing myself as a scholar, a writer, a researcher. Cecilia Polanco was a student at the University of North Carolina from 2012 to 2016. Polanco doesn't know if her ethnicity gave her a leg up in her admissions to unc, but she does remember when she applied, she included this in her essay.
- [09:40]
David Bonson
And you know, I talk about, you.
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Jenny Ruff
Know, growing up and realizing that I was Latina but not Mexican. Mexican, actually Salvadoran.
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David Bonson
And what does that mean? And why are we here?
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Jenny Ruff
Why did my family immigrate here? What is their story? Polanco's junior year Students for Fair Admissions filed its lawsuit. Polanco intervened as a party in the case in support of the University's affirmative action program.
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Nick Eicher
Here's the way the Chief justice framed the legal issue.
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David Bonson
The question in these cases is whether Harvard and UNC's programs are permissible under the Equal Protection clause of the 1430amendment.
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Nick Eicher
And the Court's ruling we conclude that they are not. The Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment says no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. The text does not mention race or ethnicity, but the context seems to. The states ratified the 14th Amendment in 1868, coming in the wake of the Civil War. Its core purpose was to protect black Americans coming out of slavery to shield them from ongoing discrimination.
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Jenny Ruff
Students for Fair Admissions was not the first time the Court considered whether race based admissions violate that clause. Chief Justice Roberts walked through a timeline starting with what happened after the 14th Amendment took effect.
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David Bonson
Now, as anyone familiar with American history knows, however, for many years thereafter, the Equal protection clause failed to live up.
- [11:06]
Kent Covington
To its full promise.
- [11:08]
David Bonson
Jim Crow laws and decisions of this Court upholding them.
- [11:11]
Jenny Ruff
Decisions like Plessing versus Ferguson meant that.
- [11:14]
David Bonson
State enforced discrimination continued in many parts of America for decades. It was a sad and egregious chapter in our Nation's history.
- [11:23]
Jenny Ruff
Plessy versus Ferguson from 1896 imposed the principle of separate but equal.
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David Bonson
And that meant we were a very divided society in terms of theaters, restaurants, beaches, water fountains, buses, all sorts of things. Things, right.
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Jenny Ruff
Jerry Orgen is a founding faculty member of The University of St. Thomas School of law in Minneapolis.
- [11:45]
David Bonson
And that finally changed with Brown versus Board of education.
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Jenny Ruff
Brown was a primary school segregation case the court used to overturn. Plessy, Oregon analyzes school enrollment data in higher education. And he says affirmative action in college admissions was one way to compensate for the residual effects of racial discrimination.
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David Bonson
But it's hard to implement affirmative action without saying we are going to treat some people differently than others.
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Jenny Ruff
It is. And the court struggled for decades with universities that used racial preferences in admissions. In 1978, the Supreme Court decided Regents of the university of California versus Bakke. It said race based admissions were kinda okay, but it was a highly fractured decision. Chief justice John Roberts.
- [12:34]
David Bonson
Again, the case produced six different opinions, none of which commanded a majority of the court. But one opinion, written by justice Powell for himself alone, would come to serve as the touchstone for race based admissions policies going forward.
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Nick Eicher
Justice Lewis Powell said that racial quotas violated the equal protection clause, meaning universities could not reserve a certain number of seats for only minority applicants. But he contended that schools could consider race as one of many factors. Fast forward 25 years to 2003, the Supreme Court again considering race based admissions in two companion cases arising out of the University of Michigan. In Grutter v. Bollinger, a majority of.
- [13:18]
David Bonson
The court for the first time held that universities could make race based admissions decisions to pursue the educational benefits of diversity.
- [13:27]
Nick Eicher
But the Grutter decision came with an expectation.
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David Bonson
Grutter imposed one critical limit on race based admissions programs. At some point, the court held, they must end. The court made this important point six different times in six different ways.
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Nick Eicher
A 2016 case, Fisher versus the University of Texas, Also upheld race based admissions.
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Jenny Ruff
And that brings us to 2023 and the students for fair admissions cases. Cecilia Polanco, the student who intervened in the UNC case, told me that being a party helped her better understand the arguments. You know, coming in, I think I was very convinced about my position. And so seeing the expanse of the argument, I saw, well, there might be cases in which, you know, affirmative action may not be serving its purpose and.
- [14:14]
David Bonson
Other situations where, yes, this is needed.
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Jenny Ruff
In a corrective way because of. She also gained insight into how judges are supposed to apply the law, not personal policy preferences. And through the legal perspective, it is much more to what is the precedent that has been set by the law so far about this, and is it time for that to be updated? The court said it is time. Under the legal test of strict scrutiny, the court had been finding that diversity in education was a compelling interest so long as race was used narrowly considered one factor among others, to the present day students for fair admissions, the Court changed its mind. It said diversity goals are not a compelling interest.
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David Bonson
After all, under the Equal Protection Clause, courts may not allow the separation of students on the basis of race without an exceedingly persuasive justification that is measurable and concrete enough to permit meaningful judicial review.
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Jenny Ruff
So why did the same constitution, the same 14th amendment, considering the same legal question, result in so many different opinions? Well, the facts change, the Court changes, and the question itself strikes at the heart of human limitations. As Professor Organ explains, we're flawed.
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David Bonson
You know, you're talking about human institutions with human beings who are flawed. We have kind of tribal instincts. We tend to socialize with people like us. And the obvious difference is skin color. You know, are we a less discriminatory society than we were 100 years ago? Yeah, but there are still challenges, right? We still have problems to work through, but particularly for Christians, it requires all of us to remember that everybody is created in God's image. One way of embracing that is that the Equal Protection Clause makes sense. We're all of equal worth and dignity, and we should be treated equally.
- [16:10]
Nick Eicher
The Court's opinion also made much of the fact that neither Harvard nor UNC had an end date in sight to stop its current programs and start applying race neutral ones. And it pointed out that racial boxes in application forms are arbitrary and confusing. Asian American, for example, doesn't distinguish between South Asian and East Asian.
- [16:32]
David Bonson
And what do you do about someone from Lebanon or Iran or Egypt? If you don't fit in this box, you kind of default to white.
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Nick Eicher
Polanco ran into that problem.
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Jenny Ruff
Like, I don't identify with the race. Maybe if there was a brown race, maybe that, you know, like, just to line up with the colors. I hear people say so too. Like, oh, I don't see color. No, it's about actually seeing it. Let's just make the space for this whole color wheel. As I've talked with Christian lawyers about this case, they agree it can be right and good to acknowledge God's design in making us different. Not doing so can be a failure to see real challenges. But colorblind in the legal sense is the ideal of impartiality where race doesn't show favoritism or limit opportunity. And that brings to mind the famous Supreme Court.
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David Bonson
As Justice Harlan proclaimed in dissent in Plessy v. Ferguson, our Constitution is colorblind and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens.
- [17:36]
Nick Eicher
Justice Clarence Thomas, again, of the three justices who wrote Concurring opinions. He's the only one who read aloud from the bench. He echoed the chief justice in calling racial preferences in admissions a zero sum game.
- [17:50]
David Bonson
Every time the government uses racial criteria purporting to bring the races together, someone gets excluded and the person excluded suffers an injury solely because of his or.
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Nick Eicher
Her race, he said. Skin color does not define viewpoints.
- [18:08]
David Bonson
The racial boxes into which universities place applicants are little more than stereotypes, suggesting that immutable characteristics characteristics somehow conclusively determine a person's ideology, beliefs and abilities. That is decidedly false and dehumanizing and.
- [18:27]
Nick Eicher
Remedial measures, once permissible, he said, no longer apply.
- [18:31]
David Bonson
Today's 17 year olds, after all, did not live through the Jim Crow era. They did not enact or enforce segregation laws or take any action to to oppress or enslave the victims of the past. Whatever their skin color, they do not shoulder the moral debts of their ancestors.
- [18:52]
Nick Eicher
Not all the justices agreed. Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson dissented, arguing the court ignored the 14th Amendment's history.
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Jenny Ruff
The majority did leave one opening. Chief Justice Roberts said universities could consider an applicant's story, but not their race alone.
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David Bonson
We do not suggest today that universities must ignore an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration or otherwise.
- [19:21]
Jenny Ruff
Barry McDonald is a constitutional law expert and professor at Pepperdine University Law School. He says the essay exception could open the door to more racial gamesmanship.
- [19:32]
David Bonson
It's just really messy how this is going to work. Councilors are going to tell prospective applicants to just write essays talking about their racial and ethnic experiences and how they attempted to overcome that. So I think there's going to be a lot of litigation about this where you're probably going to have plaintiffs coming in and saying that university was putting way too much weight on life experiences and not enough on, you know, raw academic indicators.
- [20:02]
Jenny Ruff
But raw academic indicators are not as race neutral as they might seem. Test scores tend to favor students from wealthier backgrounds. Money can buy things like tutors, prep classes and high schools with AP courses. Also, colleges consider other factors from athletics.
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David Bonson
If you can throw a good curveball.
- [20:21]
Jenny Ruff
To legacy admissions, you can no longer.
- [20:24]
Kent Covington
Take into account race in college admissions.
- [20:27]
David Bonson
But you can continue to grant all these legacy, which is affirmative action for rich kids. Did your parents go to Harvard? Did their parents go to Harvard? Then you get extra points.
- [20:37]
Jenny Ruff
That's David Anderson, an author and the pastor of Bridgeway Community Church in Maryland. He points out the Bible says there's only one race. The human race. Yet, he says the sin we know as racism is assigning value to people based on color or ancestry. And that sin still lingers. His own family lived under segregation.
- [20:58]
David Bonson
Did my parents go to Harvard? My mom grew up in Mississippi. She remembers when you couldn't drink water from certain rudder fountains. She never got a degree. So guess what? My mom and my mom's mom, they never had a chance to start Legacy.
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Nick Eicher
Clarence Thomas lived his own version of that story. He was admitted to Yale law School in 1971, during a period when the university was putting in place an affirmative action policy. Thomas conceded that while it helped him access an elite education, it also cast a shadow of doubt on his accomplishments. As he explains in a memo, now.
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David Bonson
I knew what a law degree from Yale was worth when it bore the taint of racial preference. I was humiliated and desperate.
- [21:38]
Nick Eicher
A friend, economist Glenn Lowry, explained further in a PBS documentary on Justice Thomas life.
- [21:45]
David Bonson
He thought that his degree was devalued, that he didn't get the same kind of cachet out of the degree. Once he was looking for a job and trying to move in his career, he assumed that others were assuming that it's a Yale law degree, but with an asterisk next to it.
- [21:59]
Nick Eicher
In his career in government, going back to the Reagan administration, when he served as chairman of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Thomas repeatedly criticized racial preferences. Instead, he promoted the O in EEOC Opportunity, not equal results.
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David Bonson
Where you do run into the conflict is when you have a system set up under the guise of affirmative action that is called preferential treatment.
- [22:25]
Nick Eicher
And so in the summer of 2023, when the court struck down the admissions programs at Harvard and North Carolina, Thomas finally saw that principle prevail. After decades of dissents, Thomas closed his concurring opinion by pointing to the promise of the 14th Amendment.
- [22:42]
David Bonson
The equal citizenship guarantee codified in the 14th Amendment made us all citizens of one nation, government governed by one constitution. The Court today lives up to the promise of the second founding and ensures that the promise of equal citizenship continues to be fulfilled.
- [23:02]
Jenny Ruff
Justice Thomas story has come full circle, but legal challenges and progress in race relations cases are still emerging. And that's this week's legal docket.
- [23:29]
Kent Covington
Additional support comes from Audio Deacon, offering album reviews and artist interviews to cultivate mature musical taste in a noisy world. Audio-deakin.com From Covenant College, rigorous academics grounded in Reformed theology lived out in Christ Centered Community Covenant. Edu World and from Water's Edge. Save More, Do More, Give More. Helping Christians support ministry by giving through a donor advised fund watersedge.com dan.
- [24:19]
Jenny Ruff
Coming up next on THE World and everything in it, the Monday Money beat.
- [24:25]
Nick Eicher
It's time now to talk business markets and the economy with financial analyst and advisor David Bonson. David heads up the wealth management firm the Bonson Group. He is here now. Good morning to you, David.
- [24:37]
David Bonson
Well, good morning, Nick. Good to be with you.
- [24:38]
Nick Eicher
Well, David, Fed Chairman Jay Powell was in Wyoming last week for the annual Jackson Hole symposium that was put on by the Kansas City Fed. And this year he suggested that the Fed may finally be ready to ease interest rates. So translating the Fed speak we're about to hear, he points to inflation pressures on the one side, job market weakness on the other, and hints that it may be time to respond. Let's listen in. In the near term, risks to inflation.
- [25:08]
Kent Covington
Are tilted to the upside and risks.
- [25:10]
Nick Eicher
To employment to the downside. A challenging situation when our goals are intentioned like this.
- [25:16]
Kent Covington
Our framework calls for us to balance.
- [25:18]
Nick Eicher
Both sides of our dual mandate. Our policy rate is now closer to neutral than it was a year ago. And the stability of the unemployment rate.
- [25:27]
Kent Covington
And other labor market measures allows us to to proceed carefully as we consider changes to our policy stance.
- [25:34]
Nick Eicher
Nonetheless, with policy in restrictive territory, the.
- [25:37]
Kent Covington
Baseline outlook and the shifting balance of.
- [25:39]
Nick Eicher
Risks may warrant adjusting our policy stance. All right. So again, in plainer terms, Powell seems to be saying that the softening job market, to his way of thinking, outweighs any inflation pressures he's still seeing. So all of that, his words, may warrant a change in the interest rate. Now, I've learned from you to look at the futures market for the real odds, not just headlines and speculation that we see in the media. But before he spoke, the market had put a September rate cut at about 70% likely, and afterward it jumped to nearly 90%. So run with this where you want, David, and if you'd like to talk about the interest rate, then please do. But I do also want to get to the heart of your dividend CAFE argument this week about the bank bigger story of the fed balance sheet, QE&QT, quantitative easing, quantitative tightening. But we can start with interest rates.
- [26:38]
David Bonson
Well, I think that there's pretty much no question after the speech and as you point out, Nick, the futures market reaffirming that we're getting a rate cut in September. You know, 70% is not 90%. We should point out it was basically near 100% about 10 days before. And then that number fell after the hot PP number that we had discussed last week. And so there was some ambiguity. But I think that the market response to Jay Powell's speech on Friday was a lot less about the September assurance, which even though it wasn't as assured, it was pretty assured already that we were headed to a rate cut in September. The bigger issue was the posture, the language, the concessions that he gave were all pretty directionally on the dovish side. You know, we now have to think more about the other way and getting in front of what could be economic softness. I think it was some of the weakening of the labor data that he's kind of referencing. And even apart from the futures market in the fed funds rate, which is what the futures are telling you the rates will go to into the future, the current bond rates on Friday dropped significantly. So all that to say when you kind of filter through the different numbers out there, the thing that sticks out to me the most is that we are in the futures market at a much higher forecast for three rate cuts by the end of the year. And that's the more aggressive side. It's not an assured thing. You'll have that much. But I do believe that the general posture that the chairman took in Jackson Hole gave people the indication that he's now in, you know, singing from a different hymnal than he's been the last couple of months.
- [28:35]
Nick Eicher
All right, David. Well, of course, I mentioned yet another hymnal, so to speak, not just the interest rate policy tool, but the balance sheet policy tool that you laid out in this week's DC Meaning quantitative easing versus quantitative tightening. We've heard a little bit about that. And you make the point that that policy tool set is just as important. So could you go ahead and walk us through why that is such a big deal and go take the time that you need.
- [29:06]
David Bonson
Well, the dividend cafe on Friday was a bit wonkier than normal because the whole terminology of quantitative easing, quantitative tightening, the Fed doing asset purchases on its balance sheet, you know, I just said five or six things that might have tuned out, you know, half of our listeners, and I hope that's not true. But I don't mean it to get into a deep dive of certain monetary economic concepts. It's to indicate that there's this other really significant tool in the toolbox of our central bank that has been one of the primary uses of either affecting easing monetary conditions, trying to pump more credit growth, or tightening monetary conditions, trying to limit liquidity in the financial system going back now, what is 17 years since the financial crisis and all of this began. So I walked through the history of how all of that played out under Then Chairman Ben Bernanke after the financial crisis. And the point that I am trying to make is that the interest rate the Fed uses is a big tool. But while we're sitting around wondering, are they going to cut or not cut, they've still been tightening monetary policy by continuing to pull liquidity out of the system. And there was over $2 trillion in what is called the Fed's reverse repo facility a few years ago. It's now empty. There's nothing left there. So when they do quantitative tightening now, they're pulling money out of bank excess reserves, which is literally reducing money in the banking system. And then when you factor in leverage off of money lent out, then that amounts to a pretty significant reduction of liquidity of credit in the financial system. And I think that the Fed at this point is very, very likely to be done with quantitative tightening. Now, the interest rate has been the biggest monetary policy tool for decades. And then after the financial crisis, to try to kick it up a notch, they used this thing called quantitative easing, using their balance sheet. The thing I just got done talking about, the issue, I would say, is when you've now exhausted two different policy tools and the market is already of it, what is the next thing you could do? I'm not talking about a recession, Nick, but if there were a slowdown of economic conditions and the Fed decided they wanted to stimulate, what is the most likely tool they would use at this point? I think it would be reducing the interest they pay on the reserves that banks hold at the Fed. Right now, they're paying a attractive rate of interest, and that gives the banks incentive to hold deposit at the Fed and not lend it out. And if they were to reduce that rate, that would probably become a more aggressive monetary policy tool. So we're living in an era, and I've been trying my best to study it for a good portion of my adult life. I think I lack the adventurism of central bankers to keep up with how aggressive they're willing to be. But this is the story playing out is central banks from Japan to the United States to Europe being way more aggressive, way more experimental than they've ever been, and not really fearing the consequences. Pretty okay with the idea that, oh, we'll see what happens here. That, to me, is extremely noteworthy.
- [32:47]
Nick Eicher
All right, David. Well, speaking of adventures at the Fed, let's talk about the adventures of Fed succession. Chairman Powell's term is coming to an end, and we are starting now to hear some of the names floated. Chris Waller, Kevin Hassett, Kevin Warsh, Stephen Mirren, what do you make of that conversation and what does it tell us about the future direction of the Fed?
- [33:11]
David Bonson
Well, I really hope from that list it's Kevin Warsh, I believe it should be. And I do think that he has the highest odds of those four, but I don't think those odds are above 50%. I mean, the president's holding this close to the vest. There's no question that Scott Besant, the Treasury secretary, is going to play a big role in advising the president. Kevin Hassett, I continue to question if I think he really would want the job. For various reasons, I would prefer it not be Stephen Mirren. And then, you know, Waller is definitely in the mix at this point and he's on the Fed now and there would be the most continuity there. The advantage he has is that he's interviewed very well for the position by going out in the press and criticizing Jay Powell a lot and saying all the things President Trump wants to hear. The thing he has going against him is President Trump doesn't know him. And President Trump has really said privately, including some people I know, that he doesn't want to do what he believes was a mistake again, which is go off of other people's recommendations. Then Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin recommended Jay Powell. President Trump didn't know him and he ended up regretting that decision. And Waller may be in that camp where he's saying the right things, but Trump doesn't know him. He knows Kevin Hassett and he knows Steven Mirren now. But Warsh, he's interviewed several times. Warsh was in the mix in the first term as well, but there's a lot of talk as to whether or not the president is comfortable there. Warsh is probably the best of those four. That's what I'll say.
- [34:56]
Nick Eicher
Well, hey, David, before we let you go, I do want to let the World radio listening audience know about plans that we have for three weeks from tonight. That would be Monday, September 15th. If you live in or near Houston, Texas. We would love to meet you, David and I, along with members of the World team. We will be there as we launch a new live event series that we're calling the World Stage. We've asked David to speak on the theological themes that are so close to his heart, ideas that he explored in his newest book, Full Work and the Meaning of Life. So after a short speech that David will give, we'll have a Q and A on stage, then take questions from you in the audience. And when the formal program wraps up, David's going to hang around so we can all visit informally as so it's shaping up to be an exciting evening of ideas, encouragement and fellowship. And we hope that you will join us at First Baptist Houston Downtown. Space is limited, so please do reserve your spot today. WNG.org theworldstage and here's something fun. David and I have been friends for years now over a virtual studio line, but this is actually going to be the very first time that we have met in person. So I'm really looking forward to that part too.
- [36:25]
David Bonson
Well, I'm looking forward to it. I think that you know this to be true and I know it, but it may be funny for listeners to hear, but it's real. When you see someone on a video screen and do this every single week as we have, it really doesn't feel like we've never met. But it will be good to meet in person and to meet a lot of other world listeners and be able to be part of that community. It's gonna be fun and so look forward to being with everyone in Houston.
- [36:53]
Nick Eicher
All right. Again, wng.org theworldstage There is no charge, but in keeping with our economic talk here on the Monday Money Beat, there is economic scarcity here because space is limited and you'll want to sign up quickly. Three weeks from tonight, September 15th, you can meet David Bonson taking to the world stage. We'll link to the event page in today's transcript. All right, David Bonson, founder, managing partner and chief investment officer at the Bonson Group. He writes regularly for us at World opinions and@dividendcafe.com David, thanks.
- [37:32]
David Bonson
See you next week.
- [37:57]
Jenny Ruff
Today is Monday, August 25th. Good morning. This is the WORLD and everything in it from listener supported World Radio. I'm Jenny Ruff.
- [38:05]
Nick Eicher
And I'm Nick Eicher. Next up, the world history book. Think about all the places you go work, school, the store may be a ball game, but for millions of Americans, those ordinary routines used to be out of reach. 35 years ago, that began to change with the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act. World's Mary Muncie reports now on why the law was needed and what has changed since then, starting with a person who faced the old barriers firsthand.
- [38:36]
David Bonson
The restrooms in my high school were not accessible, so it wasn't possible actually to use the restroom during the day.
- [38:43]
Mary Muncie
Mary Lou Breslin is the co founder of the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund. She talked to PBS about what life was like as a high school student confined to a wheelchair in the 1960s.
- [38:55]
David Bonson
But I finally figured out that I could go into a parking lot, put my foot up on a bumper, slide out to the edge of my chair and pee on the ground.
- [39:06]
Mary Muncie
And she wasn't alone. People all over the country were wrestling with infrastructure that wasn't made with them in mind.
- [39:13]
Jenny Ruff
A curb is just a curb and steps are just steps, unless you're in a wheelchair. And even where the barriers have been brought down, attitudes can sometimes be even.
- [39:23]
Nick Eicher
More formidable, from people who take up.
- [39:25]
Jenny Ruff
The handicapped parking spaces to employers who blame insurance policies for not hiring the disabled.
- [39:31]
Mary Muncie
But as disabled veterans started coming home, first from World War II, then the Korean and Vietnam wars, attitudes started to change. In 1973, President Richard Nixon signed a bill to establish funding for rehabilitating veterans and helping them find gainful employment. At the end of the bill, in section 504, these 45 were. No otherwise qualified handicapped individual in the United States shall, solely by the reason of his handicap, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. After several years, that short passage became the basis for a movement.
- [40:19]
David Bonson
Elizabeth, what's going on now is an overnight sit in.
- [40:23]
Mary Muncie
In 1977, demonstrators occupied buildings all over the country, demanding that the government start implementing and enforcing section 504. Most of the occupations only lasted a few hours, maybe a day. But in San Francisco, it kept going and going.
- [40:44]
Jenny Ruff
And I've just gotten word to you.
- [40:45]
David Bonson
That these people are now locked into the building.
- [40:48]
Jenny Ruff
At 6 o', clock.
- [40:49]
David Bonson
This building did close down.
- [40:50]
Mary Muncie
The protesters had to rely on federal staff and volunteers to bring them food, blankets and medicine. Some had to rely on them to help them turn over and to eat. Meanwhile, other activists went to Washington, D.C. to negotiate with legislators.
- [41:06]
David Bonson
We're down to the bottom line, down to the basic issue here. Are we going to perpetuate segregation in our society? We're one of the largest minorities in this country.
- [41:22]
Mary Muncie
Finally, after 28 days of occupying the building in San Francisco, the protesters got what they demanded. Federal officials signed legislation to enforce Section 504, but it was still an uphill battle. Businesses were worried about the cost of making their buildings handicap accessible or about being forced to hire people who couldn't perform the role. Over the next several years, the bill faced lawsuits and new laws were shot down until 1988.
- [41:53]
David Bonson
This is perhaps the most significant piece.
- [41:55]
Nick Eicher
Of legislation that's been introduced.
- [41:57]
Mary Muncie
That's Lex Frieden. He helped craft the first iteration of the Americans with Disabilities act, or the ADA just in time for George H.W. bush to court voters with disabilities.
- [42:10]
David Bonson
I'm gonna do whatever it it takes to make sure the disabled are included in the mainstream.
- [42:18]
Kent Covington
For too long they've been left out, but they're not going to be left out anymore.
- [42:24]
Mary Muncie
Congress shot down the first iteration of the ada, but two years after Bush took office.
- [42:30]
Kent Covington
We must not and will not rest until every man and woman with a dream has the means to achieve it. And today America welcomes into the mainstream of life all of our fellow citizens with disabilities.
- [42:44]
Mary Muncie
Bush signed the current version of the ADA into law.
- [42:47]
David Bonson
Some of the first changes were in bathrooms.
- [42:50]
Mary Muncie
Sean Thornton is president of Johnny and Friends.
- [42:52]
David Bonson
But then also curb cuts began to appear pretty quickly.
- [42:56]
Nick Eicher
There were some parts of this that.
- [42:57]
David Bonson
Were very obvious and easy, but other.
- [43:00]
Mary Muncie
Parts are still being worked out, like employment law. There are so many kinds of disabilities that it's hard to write policy that covers them all while still being clear for the people who are implementing it. But Thornton says at least people are trying.
- [43:17]
David Bonson
I think that's what the ADA did.
- [43:18]
Kent Covington
Was create intentionality in our culture to.
- [43:22]
David Bonson
Include people with disability.
- [43:24]
Mary Muncie
And he says that's where the church can go above and beyond the call of the law.
- [43:28]
David Bonson
Churches sometimes are excluded from a lot.
- [43:30]
Kent Covington
Of the ADA stuff because of religious.
- [43:33]
Nick Eicher
Protections, but we want to, as Bible.
- [43:37]
Kent Covington
Teaching, Christ centered churches, we want to.
- [43:40]
David Bonson
Show those values and go the extra.
- [43:42]
Kent Covington
Mile, even in the area of ada, to even go beyond it.
- [43:46]
Mary Muncie
Thornton is also a pastor and says his church is constantly asking who would be excluded if they held an event, say on the lawn instead of inside, or do they need to have extra helpers at a kids eventually. Right now There are between 45 and 75 million people living with some kind of disability in the United States. And thanks to the ada, the US is at least thinking about how to bring them into public spaces.
- [44:12]
David Bonson
Christ always was drawn to those who.
- [44:15]
Kent Covington
Were the most marginalized in culture.
- [44:18]
David Bonson
And he was always looking for them and showing them value because he saw the the as the creator.
- [44:25]
Kent Covington
He knew the dignity, inherent dignity they had being made in the image of God.
- [44:30]
Mary Muncie
That's this week's history book. I'm Mary Muncie.
- [44:54]
Nick Eicher
Tomorrow or report on synthetic opioids even more dangerous than fentanyl. And a visit to an American church with a rare collection of historic relics. That and more tomorrow. I'm Nick Iker.
- [45:06]
Jenny Ruff
And I'm Jenny Ruff. The world and everything in it comes to you from World Radio. World's mission is biblically objective journalism that informs, educates and inspires Jesus told the parable of the lost coin what woman, having 10 silver coins, if she loses one coin, doesn't light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost. Just so. I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents. Verses 8 through 10 of Luke chapter 15 go now in grace and peace.