Doubletake: Intended for Evil, The Plan

Summary

Summary of Podcast Episode: "Doubletake: Intended for Evil, The Plan"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The World and Everything In It
• Host/Author: WORLD Radio
• Episode: Doubletake: Intended for Evil, The Plan
• Release Date: February 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the compelling episode titled "Doubletake: Intended for Evil, The Plan," WORLD Radio delves deep into the harrowing experiences of Rada Manakum during the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia. Hosted by Les Sillers, the episode intertwines personal testimonies with profound reflections on faith, evil, and divine purpose.

The Rise of the Khmer Rouge

Les Sillers sets the stage by recounting the brutal onset of the Khmer Rouge's totalitarian rule in Phnom Penh in April 1975. This regime, characterized by extreme violence and ideological fanaticism, sought to dismantle societal structures through ruthless means. Sillers notes, "No other government has ever tried to exert such totalitarian control" (00:34).

Rada Manakum’s Ordeal Under the Khmer Rouge

Rada Manakum shares his personal journey, detailing the immense suffering endured under the Khmer Rouge:

• Forced Labor Camps: Rada and his family were relocated to cooperatives in the northwest province, where they were subjected to grueling labor, including digging canals and plowing rice paddies. "I had to show them that this is the power of the revolution" (02:13).

• Personal Losses: The thin line between survival and death was evident as Rada returned home to discover the deaths of four of his six siblings and his father. "His heart is broken because he used to have everything and now he sleeps on the dirt ground" (02:31).

• Desperation and Faith: Overwhelmed by despair, Rada attempted suicide, leading to a pivotal moment of introspection and faith. "Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest" (03:44).

The Forced Marriage Campaign

The Khmer Rouge orchestrated mass marriages to consolidate control and propagate their ideology:

• Initial Resistance: Rada was coerced into multiple forced marriage attempts. "I was in favor in getting married at all because I was skinny and, you know, barely can walk myself" (07:09).

• Ideological Indoctrination: The regime's emphasis on loyalty to Anka, their revolutionary organization, overshadowed personal freedoms. "They want to match up young men and young women... because they want to brainwash the children" (08:03).

• Rada’s Prayer and Defiance: Faced with relentless pressure, Rada sought divine intervention, praying for strength to resist. "I said, Lord, if you have a plan for my life and if this is your voice, you should help me now" (05:28).

Nget Samain’s Journey

Parallel to Rada’s story is that of Nget Samain, whom he eventually marries:

• Familial Tragedies: Semain endured the loss of her entire immediate family, mirroring Rada’s suffering. "I didn't want to get married. He was too weak and sick for marriage" (16:27).

• Shared Faith: Their mutual Christian faith became a beacon of hope amidst the darkness. "If I tell you this, please don't tell anyone else. Yes, I'm a Christian" (22:22).

• Divine Union: Their marriage is portrayed as a divine plan, giving them purpose and hope. "God really did have a plan for his life... they found each other taught them that God had a purpose" (23:14).

Reflections on Evil and Divine Purpose

The episode transitions into a profound exploration of the nature of evil and the role of faith:

• Human Capacity for Evil: Drawing on the insights of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Sillers emphasizes that "the dividing line between good and evil runs down the middle of every human heart" (Untimestamped).

• Institutional Safeguards: The importance of societal institutions like family, church, and democratic governance in restraining evil is highlighted. "When those pursuing some vision of a perfect society sweep away these institutions, the human capacity for evil is unrestrained" (Untimestamped).

• Rada’s Perspective: Rada reflects on his suffering and survival as part of a divine plan. "You intended this for evil... but God intended it for good" (Untimestamped).

Conclusion

Les Sillers wraps up the episode by celebrating Rada and Semain's enduring faith and their contributions to the Cambodian church. Rada's journey from despair to purposeful ministry underscores the theme that even in the darkest times, divine purpose can manifest through human resilience and faith.

Notable Quotes:

• Rada Manakum (02:13): "I had to show them that this is the power of the revolution."
• Rada Manakum (07:09): "I was in favor in getting married at all because I was skinny and, you know, barely can walk myself."
• Rada Manakum (22:22): "Yes, I'm a Christian. And I can see tears begin to roll down on her cheek."
• Rada Manakum (23:14): "God really did have a plan for his life... they found each other taught them that God had a purpose."

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This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the enduring power of faith in the face of unimaginable adversity. It invites listeners to reflect on the intricate interplay between good and evil and the possibilities of divine purpose even amidst chaos.

Transcript

[Les Sillers]

From World Radio, this is Double Take. I'm Les Sillers.

[Rada Manakum]

When the day lights up, you scare all the time. And during that first year, the Cameroons still have guns to carry around watching you working. So it is hard to see if you are next or they call you in the middle of the night. You're the next person that they call. You don't know.

[Les Sillers]

Last time we followed Radha Manakum through the first two years of the Khmer Rouge rule in Cambodia. The Communist Khmer Rouge marched into Phnom Penh in April of 1975. It was the start of probably the most brutal government in modern history. No other government has ever tried to exert such totalitarian control. Much Khmer Rouge ideology resembled key elements of Christianity turned inside out and upside down. Everywhere there were shadows of biblical truth and a practice love, worship, community, confession, transformation, unity, judgment, virtue, purity, equality all hideously distorted under the Khmer Rouge so that they produced hate, fear, idolatry, division and violence. Leftist scholars used to split hairs over the extent to which Khmer Rouge ideology reflected classic Marxism. But the outlines are clear. It's the philosophy of Mao executed with the speed and violence of Stalin, all shot through with xenophobia. It's as if some alien intelligence distilled decades of totalitarianism from around the world into one monstrous system and then unleashed it on a small, unsuspecting country. That fall, Rada and his family were among millions of Cambodians sent up to the northwest province to live in forced labor camps called cooperatives. He had to go out on work crews digging canals and plowing rice paddies behind water buffalo. The Khmer Rouge's revolutionary organization was called Anka. The soldiers and cadres were often merciless and brutal.

[Rada Manakum]

I had to show them that this is the power of the revolution.

[Les Sillers]

Famine and disease were raging through the land. In December of 1976, RADA went back to visit his mother. He learned that four of his six siblings and his father were dead.

[Rada Manakum]

His heart is broken because he used to have everything and now he sleeps on the dirt ground. His children die one by one.

[Les Sillers]

And that was very nearly the last straw for Rada. A short time later, he tried to commit suicide by singing. In January 1977, RADA was living in a cooperative called Tuol Mate. But on this night he and his crew were out sleeping with the water buffalo next to a rice paddy. He was 25 years old and after three years under the Khmer Rouge he weighed around 90 pounds. It was raining. His only covering was a thin blanket 1 yard square. In the darkness around him his fellow workers were trying to sleep. Spies were sneaking among the dikes. A verse came to Rada's mind. Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. Rada was so very weary, he didn't think he could keep going. The cadres were driving the workers to do more and more work on less and less food, on a few scant hours of sleep per night. He saw no way out.

[Rada Manakum]

I said, you know, God, take me home because I can't go on anymore. Because less to eat and long to work a long time. And so that night I prayed that.

[Les Sillers]

God would take him home, end it. He waited and heard only water dripping off the bushes. Nothing happened.

[Rada Manakum]

And then I said, okay, if you're not going to take me home, I'm going to try to help you.

[Les Sillers]

So he began to sing in English, perhaps not as loudly as he could, but quite clearly about how this world.

[Rada Manakum]

Is not my home. I'm just passing through My treasure are laid up somewhere beyond the blue the angel beckoned me from heaven's open door and I can't feel at home in this world anymore.

[Les Sillers]

It's a country gospel tune he had learned at Maranatha Church in Phnom Penh, soon after he became a Christian in 1973. He hummed it to himself in the fields while plotting behind the water buffalo, along with call for the reapers and bringing in the sheaves. Power in the Blood was one of his favorites.

[Rada Manakum]

And then halfway through, when I say I can't go on anymore, I hear like a voice whispering in my ear, said, I have a plan for your life. I don't know where I hear that. And it clearly in my ear. And then I said, lord, if you have a plan for my life and if this is your voice, you should help me now.

[Les Sillers]

Just then, a group of young soldiers stepped out of the darkness. They had been hanging around the communal kitchen, under the tin roof and out of the rain. But they had gone for a walk, picking their way across the tops of the dikes. They heard the strange singing and headed over to investigate. Their leader was named Sal, so they came with guns.

[Rada Manakum]

A younger, about this high, 14 year old, short guy, chubby. And he said, comrade, what language are you singing?

[Les Sillers]

Rada had expected this. He just had to say English. And ideally, Sal would just shoot him on the spot, dump him in a shallow grave, or beat him to death. He figured that God could hardly blame him. He'd endured a lot already. But as Sal was speaking, Radha heard the voice again. I have a Plan for your life, it repeated. Rada didn't really know what he was doing because he couldn't think clearly. But he changed his mind.

[Rada Manakum]

And I said, oh, it's not a language, just some word. I throw it together.

[Les Sillers]

Sal bought the lie.

[Rada Manakum]

He said, go to sleep. You need to get up early, go to work. And then I went back, and then I slept through the night. And I praised God that he kept me alive. But I'm not happy because I don't want to start 3:00 in the morning going to the water again.

[Les Sillers]

But he did. Some weeks later, In February of 1977, the Youth Brigade leaders pulled him in from the rice fields for a chat. Comrade 1 said, we want you to get married. Rada did not want to get married.

[Rada Manakum]

At the time, you know, I was in favor in getting married at all because I was skinny and, you know, barely can walk myself.

[Les Sillers]

He recalled from his days at church in Phnom Penh the words from 2nd Corinthians 6 do not be yoked together with unbelievers.

[Rada Manakum]

I said, no, I don't want to get married. And he said, well, it's not a request. It is an order for you to get married.

[Les Sillers]

The Central Committee had realized by then that the Four Year Plan's super great leap forward was in reality a leap into the abyss. Crops were failing. The country was near collapse. Pol Pot blamed spies and counter revolutionaries. He also blamed the inferior new people who were unable to work with true revolutionary consciousness. Besides, they were dying like flies on the cooperatives. So Onka ordered a series of mass weddings across the country.

[Rada Manakum]

So they want to match up young men and young women, you know, to be married so they can have more children. The reason they want that, because they want to brainwash the children, because the children belong to the government, not to the parent.

[Les Sillers]

Their children would be the next generation of the new socialist man. As one observer put it, if the only possible passion was revolutionary passion, then matchmaking was Onka's business. Rada went back out to the field. It was pretty bitter. And he prayed.

[Rada Manakum]

I said, lord, you know that I cannot marry a non Christian. If I married a non Christian, I wouldn't be a Christian any longer. And then I kind of say, well, by the way, I lost 13 member of my family, so you should help me.

[Les Sillers]

It wasn't exactly that he would turn his back on God. More like God was turning his back on Rada. So your understanding was that if a Christian marries a non Christian, then they aren't a Christian anymore.

[Rada Manakum]

That's right.

[Les Sillers]

But there was nothing he could do. On April 16, Rada was one of seven young men gathered in the communal dining hall. Also there were the seven young women they were to marry. The ceremony would be the following day, the anniversary of the glorious revolution. The cadres got up and delivered the Be faithful to Anka. Do not betray Anka. Always be committed to Anka. Rada would later call it the Khmer Rouge version of premarital counseling. But when the girl opposite Rada saw him, she refused the match. She was old people loyal to Anka so she could get away with it. The next day, the leaders told Radha that his marriage was off.

[Rada Manakum]

And I said, oh, okay. I didn't even say thank the Lord because it's kind of a relief for me because I don't want to get married.

[Les Sillers]

A few weeks later, there was another mass wedding. The village leader set him up again.

[Rada Manakum]

Then the second one, when she walked in on the night before she saw me, said, I'm not going to marry this dark skinned guy.

[Les Sillers]

She actually shrieked and ran from the room. This happened more times that year. Once the girl was pulled out of line at the last minute and given to this ugly old soldier, probably as a reward for service. Another girl ran away the night before the wedding. And that was that for 1977. In January 1978, the cadres called him in again. It was a year after he'd been called in the first time about getting married.

[Rada Manakum]

They came again and they said, comrade, this time if you don't get married, we're going to give you a piece of land. One meter by two meter, which I know is my grave because it's been four times now.

[Les Sillers]

He was to marry a girl named Maine. All he knew about her was that she seemed quiet.

[Rada Manakum]

So I went back to the Lord and I prayed. I said, lord, this time you keep her there because my life depends on it.

[Les Sillers]

The wedding was again set for April 17th. The night before the wedding, the leaders delivered the usual propaganda.

[Rada Manakum]

So the next day they line up, you know, 19 young men on one side, 19 young women on one side.

[Les Sillers]

The women did not have intricately patterned gowns, jewelry or makeup. Instead, they had Anka approved hair and wore a gray blouse with a gray skirt. The men wore blue pajamas from North Korea.

[Rada Manakum]

And then they walk in, they man dress up, face each other. And then one came up and said, this is your husband and this is your wife. You're not married.

[Les Sillers]

The newlyweds all came up to the front. They pledged to Anka that they would serve Onka faithfully and raise lots of rice and loyal young revolutionaries. Those were their wedding vows. Rada and Maine went through the she was new people, too. After the ceremony, there was no dancing or singing or feasting. Radha, Maine and the other couples went out through the rice fields to a new village that had been built over the previous few weeks. He was 25. She was 23. They had one small backpack each. It was a quiet one walk. Maine's actual name was Nget Samain, but in Khmer Rouge fashion, her first name had been shortened to one syllable. She had lived through much the same thing as Radha and many, many other Cambodians. On the morning of April 17, 1975, she and her family had been herded into the streets. They stuffed some belongings and grandfather into a small car and walked out of the city.

[Nget Samain]

They were new people, and we saw the same thing. We saw the people die in the street.

[Les Sillers]

They too, ended up south of Phnom Penh to work in a village. There, she lost the first member of her family. Her grandfather needed help to go to the bathroom. But one night he went out by himself because he didn't want to disturb anybody. He made his way over to a.

[Nget Samain]

Nearby pond and he fell down in a pond.

[Les Sillers]

He got stuck in the mud, fell over and drowned. They found him the next morning. At the end of June 1975, the Neguett family was part of the massive transfer of new people from the southern part of Cambodia to Battambong in the northwest to raise rice. Just like the manicums on the train from Persat, she saw teams of people instead of water buffalo pulling plows through the rice paddies. Her father was appointed a group leader in their new village. That went badly. Some of the new people would refuse to send their young people out on the work cruise. So Semain's dad used to send his own children to make up the required number of workers. Like Radha, Semain also dug canals and dikes in the rain, worked in fields. Starved, her mom would get so hungry.

[Nget Samain]

She would faint, go die every day, cry every day, some people cry.

[Les Sillers]

In late 1975, her father died. He had been sick for a long time, unable to leave his bed even to relieve himself. Finally, one day, he was delirious, agitated, waving his arms and looking around.

[Nget Samain]

And my mom asked him, what you see? And so he just said, I'm so happy. I'm so happy. Then he said, like three words.

[Les Sillers]

And he said it three times. I'm so happy. A short while later, he died. The family was devastated. Semain's mother slept with the corpse for three nights. How do you move on in that situation? And people had done much worse things with deceased relatives. The family looked for someone to bury her father's body. They offered their father's clothes in exchange but the comrades in the village insisted on rice.

[Nget Samain]

They want rice. They don't want our clothes.

[Les Sillers]

So they had to survive on even shorter rations than usual. For several days, old people mourned openly when a loved one died. They wept and wailed and vented their grief. New people were denied that luxury. It displayed a loyalty outside Onka and that was forbidden. So at the grave, the Negates shed a few quiet tears and felt the sorrow building up inside them. In early 1976, Samain and some siblings came inside one evening and found their mother on the floor of the hut.

[Nget Samain]

She too had been ill. My mom passed away too.

[Les Sillers]

That night, as with their father, they tried to find someone to bury her mom. She had wanted to be buried in some fine silk cloth she had somehow saved. But the guy they found to dig the grave wanted to keep the silk cloth for himself as payment. He finally agreed to bury her in the silk. But Semain was suspicious. She had heard of gravediggers who dig shallow graves and then come back later to rob them.

[Nget Samain]

Think that guy gonna do my mom like the same way? Same baby car. He buried my mom not too deep like that.

[Rada Manakum]

Shallow, in a shallow grave.

[Les Sillers]

They did never go back to check. Throughout this period, she had been gradually losing track of her siblings. Some had been married at the time of the revolution and had tried to flee Cambodia with their spouses and children. She didn't know where they were. A few had died. And then Semain and her sister Smith were sent away to a different village leaving her two youngest brothers behind she arranged for a neighbor to look after them. But Samain knew she might never see them again. A little later, a Khmer Rouge officer in charge of her new village sent word that he wanted to marry Semain. She did not want to get married.

[Nget Samain]

And one thing I say I don't want to get married for my whole life.

[Les Sillers]

She had never wanted to get married. Even before the Khmer Rouge took over, she'd seen lots of bad marriages back in Phnom Penh. It wasn't for her. So the officer walked by her hut every day for three days. Each day he sent a village leader in to renew the offer. It would have meant more food, a lot more food, less danger. She declined Each time I'm not too happy to marry. It took ferocious Courage, or maybe deep despair to refuse the offer. She suspects also that the village leader just reported to the cadre that Semaine was still thinking it over. Maybe she didn't want to be the bearer of bad news. But before the situation got really serious everybody in the village was shipped off to a new location including Samaine and her sister. It was called Cramuk. She never heard from the cadre after that. Kromouk brought its own set of problems. It was so short of food that Anka told the villagers to go out and forage for wild vegetables in the forests. Worse, after only about a week, she heard that the family looking for her two younger brothers had moved. They took the boys with them. There was no way to track them down and no point in going back to look. Her family of 13 was down to her and her sister. She had one change of clothes.

[Nget Samain]

I look like a boy. So skinny and small.

[Les Sillers]

A few months later, perhaps in June 1977, Anka ordered that Krumouk merge with Tual Matei. That was where Radha was living. The two sisters trudged over with everybody else and found a couple of spots in one of the long huts. She got to know a kindly older woman in her group Hang. She began to regard her as a godmother. Semane began in Tu Almate a long period of illness that is even more ill than was normal under the Khmer Rouge. When Anka started arranging marriages to build up the revolutionary strength of the people her group leader kept her out of the lineup. She was too weak and sick for marriage. But one day while she was in the cuisine eating dinner her group leader came up behind her and tapped her in the shoulder. Come to my room, said the group leader. Semaine thought she was about to be punished for something but she had no.

[Nget Samain]

Idea what Then I'm so afraid My hands try to shaking and my heart like pumping.

[Les Sillers]

She gave her rations to somebody beside her at the table and headed over. The leader sat her down. Comrade Main, she said, we want you to get married. His name is Comrade Da. Do you know him? Sime knew who Comrade Da was. Rada. Did she want to get to know him better? The leader asked. No, she did not. Simain protested that she was too weak and sick but her group leader insisted and so Semaine asked for a few days to think it over. The leader agreed. Semaine went to her room.

[Nget Samain]

Then I get out. I go to room Then my heart like a nervous like that. I don't want my family. I keep acting. I keep thinking about My family all the time.

[Les Sillers]

After four days, she agreed to the match, reluctantly. A bit later, she talked about it with her grandmother. Hang, it's time, said Hang. You need someone, and you can look after each other when you're sick. Look after each other with what? Simene demanded. All we have is our spoons. She was scared and resentful and sad that of her whole family, only Smith was there for the ceremony. She said the vows, promising to produce the rice and the revolutionary offspring, all the while thinking that nobody could do this, that it's ridiculous. But after the ceremony, she went with Rada back to the hut in the new village, carrying her belongings. For Samain, too, it was a quiet walk. Their tiny hut was just big enough for two people to lie down. But they didn't interact much. The very next morning, Rada went back out to the fields with his plowing crew. He slept out there for the first month. After a month, he came back to the village. He felt awful, could barely stand. Probably his malaria had flared up. His boss told him he could go.

[Rada Manakum]

Home, but you know the rule that no work, no food. And I said, that's okay because I'm too sick to eat.

[Les Sillers]

At that point, he went back to his hut and went to sleep. Around noon, Mayne came in and saw him lying in the corner.

[Rada Manakum]

She saw me there and she knew that have nothing to eat.

[Les Sillers]

She went to her corner and brought him a couple of small rice dust cakes and a bite of porridge she had saved. He was desperately hungry.

[Rada Manakum]

So I jumped on my feet and accidentally said, thank the Lord, kind of out loud.

[Les Sillers]

Maine looked up. Are you a Christian? She asked. Rada was terrified. Unga had told him that Christians worked for the Americans. They were probably CIA. They should be eliminated. And anyway, Onkka had forbidden all religion.

[Rada Manakum]

And then I hear the voice whispering in my ear again.

[Les Sillers]

The same voice he had heard before when he was singing in English, said, you tell her.

[Rada Manakum]

And then I kind of, okay, take a risk, you know, And I come close to her. I sat her down and I said, if I tell you this, please don't tell anyone else. Yes, I'm a Christian. And I can see tears begin to roll down on her cheek. And she said, that's okay because I'm also a Christian.

[Nget Samain]

He said, yeah, I'm a Christian. But he told me, don't tell nobody. But I feel so happy.

[Les Sillers]

And that's when it hit him like a water buffalo. That's the plan. God really did have a plan for his life. Here she was. Radha suddenly felt light. And somehow Anka didn't seem quite so ever present anymore. They went outside the hut so they could see any spies that might be coming along. They began to talk and genuinely listened to each other for the first time. Ngetsemain was 23, the sixth of nine children born to her father, the Ga Choi. He was a Cambodian pastor with the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Her father had also been the academic dean at Takmao Bible school in the 1940s. He was the first Cambodian staff member with the British and Foreign Bible Society in the early 50s. Her grandfather had been one of the first Cambodians to accept Christ through Western Protestant missionaries back in the 1920s. The family was one of the most prominent in Christian circles in the Phnom Penh. God had put them together. And together they prayed that someday God would open a door and allow them to see the other side of the world. When Radha and Samain got married, they didn't know what would happen next. As far as they knew, they were going to spend the rest of their lives under Khmer Rouge rule. And in fact, they still faced years of hardship and at times grave danger. But their marriage was a turning point. Radha and Semain might have survived without each other, but finding each other taught them that God had a purpose in allowing all this to happen. And having each other gave them hope. We don't have time in this podcast to tell you all the rest of their story. It's pretty amazing. The Khmer Rouge regime ended in 1979 when the communist North Vietnamese invaded Cambodia. Through much hardship and danger, Radha and Semain made their way to UN refugee camps in Thailand and from there to the us Rada became a pastor and missionary. He still travels back to Cambodia regularly. He's a leading figure in a national Cambodian church that might be 2% of the population. There are a lot of theories about how the Khmer Rouge could be so evil, why so many people had to die. A senior Khmer Rouge official, Brother Number two, once blurted out the truth to a documentary filmmaker. If we had let them live, the party line would have been hijacked. Exactly. If you think you're building utopia, you can justify mass murder. Those surprised by the evil found in human hearts don't yet know themselves. As the famous Russian dissident and Christian writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn pointed out, the dividing line between good and evil runs down the middle of every human heart. The question is not how could the Khmer Rouge be so evil, but why are we all not more like the Khmer Rouge? Yet by God's grace, the institutions common to all reasonably free societies family, church, voluntary associations, democratic government keep evil in check, but only to the degree that they reflect a biblical view of human nature. When those pursuing some vision of a perfect society sweep away these institutions, the human capacity for evil is unrestrained. It grows and distorts and corrupts all it touches until violence explodes out of one heart and escalates from person to person to person until, as the prophet Hosea lamented, they break all bounds and bloodshed follows bloodshed. It's something to keep in mind when a society's leaders insist that institutions like the traditional family or Christianity are outdated, irrelevant or oppressive and need to change with the times. I once asked Radha what he thought it meant, everything he went through under the Khmer Rouge. He said that while living under Onka, he was deeply angry with the Communists and with God. He thought that God was punishing the whole country for its unbelief. Now he believes God preserved Cambodian Christians and his own life through those horrific years to bring good out of great evil. And who knows what good those many thousands of Khmer Christians will accomplish in the future? He's like Joseph confronting the brothers who sold him into slavery. You intended this for evil, he told them, but God intended it for good. Radha could have fled his homeland years before the Khmer Rouge took over, but he didn't. God protected his life so many times, he said, because he has a plan for his his fellow Cambodians and the church in Cambodia. The plan includes Radha. It was a hard plan, one that called for much suffering. But if I hadn't stayed in Cambodia, he once told me, I wouldn't know the pain of the people. I'm Les Sillers and I wrote and produced this series. We'd love to know what you think of our program, so please send us a note editorng.org if you'd like to hear or read their full story, you can find Intended for A Survivor's Story of Love, Faith and Courage in the Cambodian Killing Fields as a paperback or audio book online and thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.