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- [00:09]
Lynn Vincent
It's March 18, 2005 in Clearwater, Florida, and Michael Schiavo is in maybe the last place he expected to be. Clinging to the top of an eight foot fence, Michael is balanced precariously peering over the far side. His brother in law, John, is standing below. Michael gulps a little, laughing, nervous. He's a big guy, but even for him it's a long way down. It's a blue skied spring afternoon in Clearwater. Michael lives in a plain bungalow style house with shade trees and a quiet cul de sac. At least it used to be quiet. Now, though, it's a media circus. A bunch of reporters are camped out front, practically on Michael's front lawn. A dozen cameras lined the sidewalk, all waiting to catch a glimpse of Michael Scheibo, the man at the center of the biggest news story on the planet. The media had been clogging his street for days. When Michael finally got the call. The feeding tube was out. Michael's wife, Terri Schiavo, was finally going to die. Michael didn't want the reporters to see him leave the house, so he sneaked out the back door, climbed a ladder to the top of his own fence. And now he's hesitating, eyeing the drop from the ground. John whispers, go, go, go. Michael takes a breath, then jumps. He lands with a thump in the soft grass and feels his right knee pop. He staggers, then limps through the neighbor's yard. Unmarked police cars are waiting for him. They whisk him away to Florida, Hospice of the Suncoast. There, in a small dark room, Michael bends over a narrow hospital bed. He gathers his wife Terry into his arms and begins to cry. From world radio and the creative team that brings you the world and everything in it, this is Lawless.
- [02:30]
Unknown Singer
I see a wicked man walking down a broken road. I see a ransomed man in the storm Trying not to fall for gold Devil's at the door trying to take control but the Lord's gonna scatter his bones.
- [02:51]
Lynn Vincent
I'm New York Times best selling author and World Magazine senior writer Lynn Vinson. Lawless is a new true crime podcast that examines a frightening fact of American life, that not every crime is against the law. In today's America, the essential value of being human has eroded to the point that what once would have been prosecuted as a crime is now unexceptional, even celebrated. In season one of Lawless, we'll investigate the Terri Schiavo story, a case that in 2005 shocked the world. This is episode two ballerina. It's February 25th, 1990. Fifteen years before Michael Scheibo found himself forced to sneak out the back of his own home. It's before dawn in St. Petersburg. Suddenly, Michael awakens in the dark. He's not sure what time it is. 4:30 in the morning, maybe 5. As he gets out of bed, he doesn't notice that Terry's side of the bed is empty. Then Michael hears a thud. And the Schiavo's lives are about to change forever. Michael says his first thought is that maybe Terry has fallen. He bolts out of the bedroom into the hallway of their tiny apartment and finds his 26 year old wife, young and healthy, lying on the floor outside the bathroom. Michael will later say he found Terry lying on her side, one arm flung up over her head like a ballerina. She isn't moving. Michael drops to his knees, turns her to face him and gathers her into his arms. He tries to rouse her, but. Terry. Terry, he says. Are you all right? What happened? Terry's breath sounds strange and ragged. Michael remembers becoming frantic, says he dashed to the living room, called 911. Michael tells the dispatcher that his wife is unresponsive, that he doesn't know what's going on or. Or something. He doesn't remember exactly what he said, but he remembers hanging up, running back to Terry and scooping her up again, cradling her against his chest. Sunstar Paramedics gets the call. Lights, sirens, two paramedics, one named Ridgeski and the other Eisenbrandt. One of them writes down the time on the ambulance run sheet. It's 5:40am Back in the Schiavo apartment, Michael remembers lowering Terry to the floor again. He says he sprinted back to the living room and called Terry's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. Bob and Mary live in isla del Sol, 15 minutes away. Again, Michael runs back to Terry. He remembers, then back to the phone again. Terry's brother Bobby lives in the same apartment complex, less than two minutes away. Michael calls Bobby and tells him, your sister's collapsed. She's on the floor. Then Michael hangs up, rushes to Terry's side again, scoops her up and cradles her in his arms. Experts say that in times of extreme trauma, events often burn into the human memory with sudden and unalterable clarity. The entire family was traumatized in those dark hours. Michael, Bobby, Bob and Mary Schindler. But somehow that burning clarity of memory would become blurry. The timeline of events, who called whom and when. Even the position of Terry's body and details that should have been easy to Remember would change. Bobby Schindler remembers receiving a phone call that night. Not from Michael though, from his father, Bob. He leaps from his bed and runs out of his apartment, pulling on his shirt as he goes.
- [07:22]
Bobby Schindler
I could have either ran over or driven. Driving would get me there a little quicker. So I remember getting into my car and driving over there and it was maybe a quarter mile from my apartment.
- [07:36]
Lynn Vincent
Bobby speeds through the dark, quiet morning, across a man made pond and into the parking lot in front of Michael and Terry's building. The whole drive takes less than a minute. Michael and Terry live on the third floor and Bobby takes the stairs two at a time.
- [07:54]
Bobby Schindler
Michael opened the door and he was very, I would describe him as being frantic.
- [08:00]
Lynn Vincent
The apartment is tiny. Kitchen on the left, living room straight ahead. To the right, a short hallway to the only bedroom.
- [08:07]
Bobby Schindler
And I remember walking and seeing Terri Lang in the hallway. When I first saw her, I went over and I could hear her breathing, but it was labored, kind of a weird type of sound.
- [08:17]
Lynn Vincent
His sister is lying face down on the floor, head turned to the side, both hands curled up under her chest. Bobby bends down to try to rouse Terri.
- [08:29]
Bobby Schindler
Believe it or not, I think I became less concerned because I thought she had just fainted. So I just went over and remember started shaking her shoulder, said, come on Terry, get up. And there was no response.
- [08:43]
Lynn Vincent
Bobby is there only moments when paramedics Rajeski and Eisenbrandt arrive. The uniformed men push Michael and Bobby aside and get to work. First, a sternal rub. No response. Michael hears a paramedic say that Terry's heart has stopped. She's 5 foot 6, 124 pounds. She's wearing sweatpants and a tank top that one of the medics cuts away with scissors. There's CPR, IVs, monitors attached. Michael is shocked, holding his head in his hands. Had it only been a few hours earlier that he talked to her, that she told him good night and just.
- [09:27]
Bobby Schindler
Asking me over and over and over again what could be wrong? What is wrong? What is wrong?
- [09:31]
Lynn Vincent
What happened to her on the morning that her life changed forever. Terri schiavo was only 26 years old, dark eyed and tan. Turned heads wherever she went.
- [09:44]
Unknown Singer
Pretty woman walking down the street. Pretty woman, the kind I like to meet.
- [09:52]
Lynn Vincent
Not just saying that because, well, bikini pictures don't lie. Terri worked as a receptionist at Prudential Insurance alongside her best friend, Jackie Rhodes. Though Terry was an olive skinned brunette, she sometimes went blonde. In fact, the day before that pre dawn incident, Terry had an appointment at a Hair salon at the office. That day her hair was a hot topic. Would Terry return to work as a blonde or a brunette? At 24 years old, Bobby was just 13 months younger. The two were close, always had been. Michael worked nights at a high end Italian restaurant in St. Petersburg called Agostino's. So Terry and Bobby hung out a lot. Going to clubs, taking in movies, all the hits of the 80s.
- [10:45]
Unknown Singer
Are you telling me that you built a time machine out of a DeLorean?
- [10:49]
Lynn Vincent
If you only knew the power of the dark side. Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes? Terry and Bobby have a younger sister, Suzanne. The three grew up outside of Philadelphia. They were close friends and antagonists. Typical brother sister stuff. Tight knit siblings growing up in the 60s and 70s. Here's the story of a lovely lady who was bringing up three very lovely girls. As they got older, Suzanne leaned toward athletics, while Terry was quieter, more of an introvert. But she did have a crush on Paul Michael Glaser, you know Starsky in Starsky and Hutch named Starsky. Just a few questions. In those days, I had a crush on Starsky too. Terry couldn't stand to see animals hurt. Her mother, Mary, remembers one night when she came through the door in tears, crying, daddy, Daddy.
- [11:48]
Mary Schindler
She says, there's a cat and it's dead. It's in the middle of the road and it's dead.
- [11:53]
Lynn Vincent
Terry had just gotten her driver's license. She'd seen the cat in the street and was worried that she was the one who had run over it.
- [12:01]
Mary Schindler
Gotta get it out of there. You gotta get it out of there. I think I hit it. I think I hit it. And she was going nuts.
- [12:08]
Lynn Vincent
Her father Bob went outside to check on the cat and he said, come back in.
- [12:13]
Mary Schindler
And he said, tar. He said, there's no cat out there. He said, you didn't hit anything. He said, it's gone.
- [12:21]
Lynn Vincent
Terry was ecstatic. She went upstairs laughing with relief. But Bobby wasn't convinced.
- [12:28]
Bobby Schindler
I said, dad, what took you so long? He said, well, we were burying the cat. That's a true story, actually.
- [12:34]
Mary Schindler
Yeah, it is a true story.
- [12:36]
Suzanne Schindler
She loved all kinds of animals.
- [12:38]
Lynn Vincent
That's Terri's sister, Suzanne. She lives in St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands now. Works as a private chef aboard a charter yacht.
- [12:46]
Suzanne Schindler
I remember her room. She had a million different kind of stuffed animals. We thought she was going to be a vet, but of course she never got to do.
- [13:00]
Lynn Vincent
The Schindlers were what Bobby calls a typical Catholic family.
- [13:04]
Bobby Schindler
We went to Sunday mass and holy days of obligation. Everything you're supposed to do as good Catholics. And I remember my mom would on Good Friday from 12 to 3, we'd have to stay in the house and turn all the TVs and radios off. And she would make us read the Bible for three hours to remember, you know, the Passion and the death of Christ.
- [13:30]
Lynn Vincent
Terry spent summers with her Italian grandparents.
- [13:33]
Suzanne Schindler
As you can imagine, hanging out with your Italian grandmother, what do you do? You cook and eat the whole time.
- [13:40]
Bobby Schindler
My dad got extremely upset with my grandmother because after he had dropped her off one summer, he came back two months later and. And Terry put on, I think, 15 or 20 pounds in just a couple months because of all the food that was available.
- [13:57]
Lynn Vincent
Terry was heavy all through high school. At one point, Mary asked the family doctor about it.
- [14:03]
Mary Schindler
He used to say to me, mary, do not say one word to her about her weight. When she's ready, she will tell you, and then we'll do something about it. As soon as she graduated, she said to me about mom, she says, I think I'd like to lose some weight.
- [14:21]
Lynn Vincent
They went back to the doctor and he put Terri on Nutrisystem. Slowly, the weight came off. And when it did, Terri blossomed. She'd always been shy, reserved, but now she revealed a sly sense of humor. She especially loved joking with her dad.
- [14:41]
Mary Schindler
Yeah, she changed completely.
- [14:43]
Lynn Vincent
By the time she was 20, Terri had lost 40 pounds. Guys began to notice her, and she noticed them. Noticing her, Terry became increasingly fun and vivacious with a hilarious giggle. For her, it was a joyful journey from high school wallflower to beautiful and confident young woman. But had that journey come to an end? In the hallway of that St. Petersburg apartment, Terry hangs between life and death. Two more medics arrive. One of them begins grilling Michael and Bobby. He wants to know what kind of drugs Terry took. He's persistent, aggressive even.
- [15:28]
Bobby Schindler
They seem to be adamant that it was an overdose.
- [15:31]
Lynn Vincent
Michael and Bobby insist that Terry didn't use illicit drugs. But paramedics inject her with Narcan anyway. It's a drug that reverses the effects of narcotics. They also hit her with epinephrine adrenaline to restart her heart. Not just once or twice, five times. Finally, they break out a defibrillator and apply the paddles to teri's bare. By 6:33am paramedics have been trying to revive Terry for more than 40 minutes. That's when two detectives arrive. Homicide detectives, actually, St. Petersburg PD their names are Philip Brewer and Rodney Tower. Brewer is the lead detective. Tower is new on the job, still on probation, Brewer talks first with Rajeski. The paramedic tells the cop that they found Terry face down on the floor, half in and half out of the bathroom. Rajeski says he called for police assistance because Terry was so young. The situation seemed unusual. But when Brewer and Tower look around the apartment, they find no sign of an overdose, no sign of a struggle, nothing to indicate that any crime had been committed. Brewer questions Michael briefly, but there isn't much time. Paramedics have strapped Terry to a backboard. Now they're preparing to carry her outside down the tricky switchback staircase. In May 2021, I met Bobby at Michael and Terry's old apartment.
- [17:17]
Bobby Schindler
I don't think I've been back here since, probably after they moved out.
- [17:21]
Lynn Vincent
Do you have any particular feelings about it?
- [17:27]
Bobby Schindler
It's a little weird. This is just a lot of memories come flooding back just these past few days.
- [17:34]
Lynn Vincent
Painful.
- [17:35]
Bobby Schindler
Yeah, at times. This is where it all started.
- [17:41]
Lynn Vincent
Let's walk up the stairs.
- [17:42]
Bobby Schindler
Sure. The third floor. I think these were the same spider webs that were here, Tony.
- [17:50]
Lynn Vincent
At the top of the stairs to the right is Michael and Terry's old front door.
- [17:56]
Bobby Schindler
Everything looks again almost identical other than the color of the building.
- [18:01]
Lynn Vincent
So from the looks of things, nobody's home. After Terry fell to the floor on the other side of this door, paramedics worked on her for almost no 90 minutes. Before they could even move her.
- [18:13]
Bobby Schindler
They finally. They get a pulse and they brought her downstairs.
- [18:18]
Lynn Vincent
Paramedics finally managed to get Terry down the stairs on that backboard. Now they pack her into the ambulance and speed off to Humana Hospital, Northside. The son is just coming up 15 minutes away. Terry's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, are waiting by the phone. When Michael called them earlier, Bob and Mary had gotten out of bed immediately.
- [18:58]
Mary Schindler
For a phone call to come that early, like in the middle of the night, I knew something was wrong.
- [19:03]
Lynn Vincent
And here's where things start to get blurry, where Michael's story and the Schindler stories begin to disagree.
- [19:11]
Mary Schindler
I think Bob said something was wrong with Terry. And then he hung up. And he said, I'm going to call Bobby. I remember that. And he said. He called Bobby and he said, bobby, go over to Terry's apartment. Something is wrong with Terry.
- [19:29]
Lynn Vincent
Now Bob and Mary sitting staring at the phone, waiting. Finally it rings and Bob snatches it up. It's Bobby this time.
- [19:39]
Bobby Schindler
I was just. I was in total shock, complete shock. And that's when I called my dad. I said, dad, you better get to the hospital. It's serious. So when I got to the hospital, I'll never forget this. I got to the hospital and my parents had already been there. They got there, they met, and we're in this room where they put the family. And I remember walking in. I'm like. I'm like frantic. I said, she's dead, isn't she? She's dead. And they said, no, she made it.
- [20:16]
Lynn Vincent
For the first time since the nightmare started, Bobby feels hopeful. But Terry isn't out of the woods yet. Instead, she's back, barely clinging to life. Nurses and technicians bustle around her in the ER treatment bay. Doctors issue orders in crisp shorthand. Already Terry is on a ventilator. In medical terms, she's also decerebrating. That means losing function in her cerebrum, the part of the brain that controls come cognition. Worse, Terry remains completely unresponsive. There are tests and more tests. Drug screening and blood alcohol tests come back negative. There's no evidence of a heart attack. Chest X ray also negative. In the waiting room, Bob, Mary and Bobby keep vigil with Michael.
- [21:13]
Fran Cassler
They were distraught. They were absolutely disappointed. And it stayed that way the whole time.
- [21:19]
Lynn Vincent
That's Fran Cassler, a close friend of the Schiavo family. She'd been with Terry and the Schindlers just the evening before when Mary called her from Humana. Fran and her husband dropped everything. They sped to the hospital to support the Schindlers.
- [21:35]
Fran Cassler
They were still, you know, kind of caring for Michael. Michael was a basket case, Total basket case.
- [21:46]
Lynn Vincent
The admitting physician, Dr. Samir Shah, comes out to question Michael about Terry's medical history. Michael tells Shah that Terry had been seeing an OB GYN for about a year. Michael and Terry had been trying to have a baby, and Terry's menstrual cycles had been irregular. Then a body blow.
- [22:06]
Bobby Schindler
Victi me Pascali Laude.
- [22:14]
Lynn Vincent
A nurse comes in and asks Michael if he wants a priest to give Terry last rites. Michael burst into tears after that.
- [22:26]
Bobby Schindler
Every time we heard a code blue, we all rushed to the door. We all thought it was Terry.
- [22:34]
Lynn Vincent
The family waits on edge, terrified. The clock crawls.
- [22:41]
Bobby Schindler
I remember them saying that if she makes it through the next 48 hours, there's a chance that she'll survive. But it was bad.
- [22:49]
Lynn Vincent
More friends stream in to join Michael and the Schindlers in the waiting room. Terry's best friend, Jackie Rhodes. Mary's dear friend Sherry Payne, and Dan Greco, an attorney. Greco also owns the upscale Italian restaurant where Michael is manager. Michael had called him to let him know what was going on and we.
- [23:10]
Dan Greco
Were closed on Sunday. So I was wondering, you know, why he was calling. And he was incredibly distraught. What happened? Car accident. What? He could hardly explain it. Finally told me he was at Northside, so I said, I'll come over there.
- [23:35]
Lynn Vincent
Michael wasn't just an employee, Greco says he had also become a good friend. Michael Schiavo grew up the youngest of five boys, all big and tall, with big tall personalities. They were close knit, each about two years apart in Bill, Steve, Brian Scott and Michael. They grew up in a four bedroom house half an hour outside Philadelphia. The brothers say Michael was a bit of a mama's boy growing up. They'd give him a pounding when they thought he deserved it. All the boys got into some scrapes, roughhousing. One time, Bill and Steve hung out the back window of the house shooting cats with a BB gun until the neighbors call the police saying they were under attack. Michael calls his family, quote, absolutely normal, A little crass, a little crazy, but nothing out of the ordinary. In 1983, Michael started going to a community college in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. That's where he met Terry. They got married in 1984. After the couple moved to St. Petersburg, Michael went through several restaurant jobs. A year at one, a few months at another. But when he landed at Agostino's, he found a home.
- [24:58]
Dan Greco
So he came in and Michael in person, especially at that age, before any of this happened, he was a tall blonde, handsome, looked great in a suit.
- [25:13]
Lynn Vincent
Dan Greco remembers Michael and Terry coming into the restaurant together.
- [25:16]
Dan Greco
Oh, Terry was a beautiful girl. She was small, petite. They looked great together. Except he was 8 inches taller or 9 inches taller, which even made it more interesting. They were very much in love.
- [25:30]
Lynn Vincent
Greco says Michael was the best manager he'd ever had and he'd been through a few. After he got Michael's desperate phone call, Greco headed to Humana, Northside. He arrived mid morning and said Michael was alternately hopeful and confused. Michael kept saying, I don't know how.
- [25:50]
Dan Greco
This happened, I don't know what happened, I don't know why she collapsed. And it wasn't my place at that.
- [25:57]
Lynn Vincent
Point to ask, but someone had to ask. Remember those homicide detectives, Brewer and Tower? They still had some questions. The two detectives had stayed behind at Michael and Terry's apartment before he jumped into the ambulance. Michael tossed his keys to the cops and asked them to lock up, so they did. Then the detectives drove over to the hospital to return Michael's keys and poke around a bit. According to Brewer's report, Michael was cooperative he told police he'd been sleeping, but woke up when he heard a thud. His first thought was, quote, maybe Terry fell. He got up, he said, found Terry in the hall. Then the phone calls, the paramedics, and the hospital. Michael told the detectives that there hadn't been any problems at home and that he and Terry had had no major arguments lately. But other people who spoke with Terry during the hours before her injury told a different story.
- [27:00]
Jackie Rhodes
It had been a big joke that week at work because she had a hair appointment on Saturday.
- [27:05]
Lynn Vincent
That's the testimony of Jackie Rhodes, Terry's best friend from work.
- [27:09]
Jackie Rhodes
And she had dyed her hair blonde, and she had to decide whether or not she wanted to stay a blonde or go back to her natural color.
- [27:15]
Lynn Vincent
Jackie first agreed to be interviewed for this podcast, but then she stopped returning my phone calls. The voice you're hearing isn't Jackie, but the testimony is hers, given in 2000 at the first of many courthouse battles in the case of Terri Schiavo.
- [27:32]
Jackie Rhodes
So I called her on Saturday afternoon, and I said, well, are you a blonde or a brunette? And she said, I'm still a blonde.
- [27:39]
Lynn Vincent
Terri's injury occurred just before dawn on February 25, 1990, a Sunday.
- [27:46]
Jackie Rhodes
And it sounded like she had been crying, so I asked her if she was okay. She said that her and Michael had just gotten in a fight and. And that he was very upset with her because she had spent, I think she said, $80 on her hair that day to stay blonde.
- [28:04]
Lynn Vincent
Michael agrees that there was a conversation. He says Terry called him at work that afternoon, fresh from the salon, excited to talk about her new hairstyle. But a fight over money? That never happened, he says. But Jackie Rhodes would later testify that she saw it differently. In fact, Terry was so upset that Jackie asked if she should come over, make sure Terry was okay. Terry said no. She'd already made plans to run over to Bobby's place a couple of buildings over. When Terry got to Bobby's house, he says, she was still upset. Terry told her brother she'd had an argument with Michael, but didn't go into details. Bobby and Terri chatted a while. She ironed his pants for him, and then she left. According to Michael, though, Terry spoke with him after visiting Bobby. He says he poked fun at her about ironing her brother's pants. What was she going to do next? Iron his boxer shorts? The afternoon of February 24, Terri went to a 5pm Mass with her parents. Then they all went to dinner at Fran Cassler's house.
- [29:13]
Fran Cassler
I had a friend from Italy who was a chef visiting, and he made us all dinner. Early dinner.
- [29:23]
Lynn Vincent
After dinner, Terry made a few quick stops. On her way home, she called her mother, Mary. And after that, no one knows for sure. Back at the hospital, Detectives Brewer and Tower wrap up their interview with Michael. And they never interview him or anyone else connected to the case again. They never return to the Schiavo's apartment, never collect evidence of any kind, or if they did, they did not enter it into the police record. Detective Brewer is retired now. I reached out to him through St. Petersburg pd, but he didn't reply. Detective Tower now works for a company that does crime scene cleanup. I reached out to him, too, and again, no reply. I would still like to ask the detectives one question. Michael Schiavo said he cradled Terry in his arms three different times. So why did Bobby and the paramedics find her face down on the floor with her hands curled underneath her chest? Next time on Lawless.
- [30:42]
Bobby Schindler
Everything I know about eating disorders that, you know, people do it in secret.
- [30:46]
Fran Cassler
And she leans over, she says, don't say anything. But Michael is not gonna let Bob and Mary take care of Terry. She said, I kind of. I can see trouble coming.
- [31:00]
Lynn Vincent
Lawless is a production of World Radio. Our executive producer is Paul Butler. Our production assistant is Lillian Hammond. Music by Will Sheehan. Lawless is reported and written by Anna Johansen Brown, Bonnie Pritchett and me, Lynn Vincent. For a list of additional audio sources in this episode, visit Lawless PR podcast.com thank you for joining us.