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- [00:04]
Unknown Speaker 1
September 25, 2004.
- [00:06]
Bob Schindler
It was awful.
- [00:07]
Unknown Speaker 1
Hurricane Gene weather weary storm rattled central.
- [00:11]
Terry Schiavo
Florida residents or delivered a third powerful punch.
- [00:14]
Anna Johansen Brown
On September 26, 2004, most Florida residents are hunkered down inside as Hurricane Jean slams the eastern coast.
- [00:22]
Bob Schindler
One of the storms had just come through, you know, gone just south of Tampa, through Port Charlotte, ripped through the state, and every major air in the southeast was closed.
- [00:35]
Anna Johansen Brown
But the Schindlers and David Gibbs aren't taking shelter inside. Instead, they're making plans to head out on the roads into the storm. They're slated to appear for a full hour on Larry king live in LA, 2,000 miles away on the opposite side of the country. Right now, that's looking pretty impossible. Then Gibbs gets a call from one of Larry King's staffers and she said.
- [00:57]
Bob Schindler
Can you get to Miami? Well, I knew Miami airport was closed, but she said, we have a relationship with a carrier and they're going to land at the Miami airport and you will be allowed to board.
- [01:13]
Anna Johansen Brown
It's the Schindler's last hope to make it out of the state. So Gibbs hatches a plan.
- [01:17]
Bob Schindler
First of all, I called the Schindlers and said, are you willing to still go? So we made the decision, okay, we'll go. So I called my grandfather and he had one of the big four door Cadillacs going out in a storm, might as well have something big. And then I called a young single attorney on my staff that could drive the car back. And I figured, well, if we all die in the wreck, he won't have as much family. That'll be sad.
- [01:43]
Anna Johansen Brown
If it's over 250 miles from the Tampa Bay area to Miami, the track takes over four hours on a good day, but it's not a good day. High winds and sheets of rain pelt the car. Thunder booms overhead and we went out.
- [01:58]
Bob Schindler
In some pretty bad weather. I mean, there's no lights, everything's knocked out. We saw massive damage. Roads are cleared. You were actually, I think, prohibited from being out other than for, you know, emergencies. So we were kind of with the first responders. And so we made our way to Miami through a lot of nasty storm. And I still remember that ride, you know, Bob Schindler cutting jokes and probably because Mary was nervous. I don't think Mary spoke a whole lot. She might have been like thinking we were all a little crazy. But we were all fighting for Terry.
- [02:45]
Lynn Vincent
From World Radio and the creative team that brings you the world and everything in it. This is lawless.
- [02:51]
Terry Schiavo
I see a wicked man walking Down a broken road I see ransomed man in the storm Trying not to fall for gold Devil's at the door Trying to take control but the Lord's gonna scatter his bones.
- [03:12]
Lynn Vincent
I'm New York Times best selling author and World magazine executive editor Lynn Vincent.
- [03:18]
Anna Johansen Brown
And I'm World Radio features editor Anna Johansen Brown. Lawless is a true crime podcast that examines a frightening fact of American life, that not every crime is against the law.
- [03:29]
Lynn Vincent
In season two, we're wrapping up our investigation of the Terri Schiavo story, a case that in 2005 shocked the world. This is episode four, just walk away. In October 2003, Terri had just gotten her feeding tube back after seven days of dehydration. Now she's bouncing back. Bob Schindler isn't. The Schindlers live in daily suspense. And the stress is literally killing Bob Schindler. Dr. William Hammisfahr, one of the doctors who testified at Terry's latest trial, checks his blood pressure. It's off the charts.
- [04:16]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
It was like one almost 200 over 190. You set them right down, right that in that chair right away. And he would not let him leave.
- [04:28]
Anna Johansen Brown
Okay.
- [04:28]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
It was terrible. I'll never forget that day. And he told him to go call the doctor, his doctor. And we went over there. But oh, he was a mess.
- [04:38]
Lynn Vincent
The doctors pull Mary aside.
- [04:40]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
Mary, he said, let me tell you something. Don't worry about Bob. He said, now he says you have nothing to worry about. He said, but until Terry dies, and if she dies, then you start worrying.
- [04:56]
Anna Johansen Brown
As lawyers for both sides spar over Terry's law, Terry gets another guardian ad litem, Professor Jay Wolfson. He's not a medical doctor, but he has a doctorate in public health and a law degree. He's faced with a daunting review. The entire 13 year paper trail of the case in 30 days. After that, he has to give Governor Jeb Bush his recommendation, should the governor lift the stay on the removal of Terry's feeding tube. Wolfson holds long conversations with Michael and with the Schindlers. And he spends quite a bit of time visiting Terry, too.
- [05:30]
Professor Jay Wolfson
I would sit with her sometimes for hours, holding her hand, holding her head in my hand, stroking her hair, talking to her. I played music for her. I desperately, desperately wanted her to give me some consistent indication that she was interacting and responsive.
- [05:46]
Anna Johansen Brown
Wolfson submits his 40 page report on December 1st.
- [05:49]
Professor Jay Wolfson
I determined that the 13 years of evidence, the legal evidence, 30,000 pages of memoranda and motions and medical records, and the clinical evidence that was provided established a clear and convincing basis using the standards of Florida law to determine that Terry was in fact in a persistent vegetative state.
- [06:09]
Anna Johansen Brown
Short version. Wolfson believes that Terri is in pvs, but he still thinks she should have another test to see if she could learn to swallow food. If she can, Wolfson believes the governor's stay should remain. If she can't, the governor should lift the stay and allow the removal of her feeding tube. Wolfson puts forward a plan to help Michael and the Schindlers resolve their differences out of court. The Guardian ad litem would pick another round of specialists to examine Terry. But both sides have to agree beforehand how they'll respond to their findings. At first, the mediation seems to be working. Both sides seem willing. But at the last minute, 11:50pm the night before Wolfson's report is due, George Filos calls it off. He says it's a noble effort, but he can't go along with it. Wolfson was appointed under Terry's law, and that's a law Philos doesn't believe is constitutional.
- [07:04]
Lynn Vincent
Then on March 29, 2004, the Schindlers get a call that shatters the fragile status quo. It's from a local CBS reporter, and.
- [07:12]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
He said that you were accused of, and he said, putting puncture wounds in her arms.
- [07:20]
Lynn Vincent
Soon after, a visit from the Schindlers. Hospital staff had found Terry with five, quote, fresh puncture wounds on her arms and something like a purple needle cap tucked in her gown. With lightning speed, George Filo circulates a press release labeling Terry's room a crime scene and casting the Schindlers as the primary suspects.
- [07:40]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
And I said, bob, I said, do they really believe that we would do something like that?
- [07:46]
Anna Johansen Brown
Why?
- [07:47]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
Why would we do anything like that?
- [07:49]
Lynn Vincent
Michael cuts off all visitors to Terry indefinitely while the police investigate. The stress actually triggers a fainting spell for Bob Schindler. Mary rushes him to the emergency room. The Schindlers have long felt that the courts are against them. They've even felt betrayed by their own church as a local priest testified on Michael's behalf in the first trial over Terry's wishes. Even their own Bishop Robert lynch, refused to speak out on her behalf.
- [08:17]
Mary Schindler
And we begged for their assistance. We begged with the Catholic Church to come and stand behind Terry and a number of Catholic notes, not only Catholic, but organizations throughout the country to please help us and no one would help us. It was essentially our family against the euthanasia movement.
- [08:36]
Lynn Vincent
Catholic priests came down on both sides of the debate. Is it Ethical to remove a person's feeding tube. But now a new voice speaks up, a voice from the very top. In March 2004, Pope John Paul II gives an address on Leo life sustaining treatments. He doesn't directly mention the Schindlers, but with Terry making international headlines, it's a clear nod in their direction.
- [09:04]
Mary Schindler
John Paul basically said that if a person is not dying, which Terry was not dying, if they're not terminal and they're able to assimilate or metabolize food and hydration through a feeding tube, then we are morally obligated to continue that person's care, continue to provide them the food hydration through the feeding tubes.
- [09:22]
Lynn Vincent
It buoys Mary's weary soul.
- [09:25]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
I was excited that he said it, saying it and thinking that, you know, our family, he said something about our family, you know, and what was going on was you just thank God that he did and you prayed and thanked him for what, you know, the Pope was doing.
- [09:44]
Anna Johansen Brown
Pat Anderson files yet another motion. She argues that Terry, as a devout Catholic, would never go against the Pope's teaching, regardless of any earlier wishes. But Michael says Terry wasn't a practicing Catholic. His brothers Scott and Steve back him up on this point.
- [10:01]
Terry Schiavo
She graduated, went to Catholic schools her.
- [10:03]
Anna Johansen Brown
Whole life, but she wasn't a full.
- [10:05]
Terry Schiavo
Fledged churchgoer like they're making her sound. Terry was Catholic in that she went to church every so often. She was not a devout Catholic in the time that I've known her. Granted, they've known her a lot longer, but she didn't go to church.
- [10:23]
Anna Johansen Brown
Bobby says that's not really for the Shivos to say.
- [10:26]
Mary Schindler
Was Terry a devout Catholic while married to Michael? I don't know that Michael would know how to answer that for the simple fact he wasn't Catholic.
- [10:33]
Anna Johansen Brown
Mary says even though Michael was married to Terry, he wasn't around enough to know what her faith was.
- [10:39]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
Michael worked a lot on Sundays, okay, He was managing restaurants and stuff. He never knew when Terry went to church with Bob and I. And she did go to church, maybe not every Sunday, but as far as I remember, she went to church with us all the time. We used to go four o'clock in the afternoon. Usually Bob and I would go to church on Saturday and most of the time Terry would go to church with us and he worked.
- [11:06]
Anna Johansen Brown
Terry did go to mass with Mary and Bob on the afternoon of Saturday, February 24, 1990, the last normal day of her life.
- [11:16]
Mary Schindler
Even if you want to believe that Terry wasn't what Michael would describe as a devout Catholic, that doesn't justify taking away her food and hydration. It's still unethical. It's still against the teachings of the church. It's never right. You can never justify deliberately killing a human being.
- [11:35]
Anna Johansen Brown
On May 5, 2004, Judge W. Douglas Baird of the Sixth Circuit issues his ruling in the fight over Terry's Law.
- [11:42]
Bob Schindler
A district judge has now ruled that Terry's Law is unconstitutional.
- [11:47]
Anna Johansen Brown
Governor Jeb Bush lost.
- [11:48]
Bob Schindler
No time in lodging an appeal. The case may eventually be appealed all the way to the U.S. supreme Court.
- [11:54]
Anna Johansen Brown
Terry's law is out, but Terry's feeding tube stays in for now.
- [12:03]
Lynn Vincent
That summer, Clearwater police released their report on Terry's mysterious puncture wounds. After a month and a half of investigating, they find nothing nefarious. Terry's blood screens are negative, so she wasn't injected with anything. And that purple cap, it wasn't a needle cap. It was a plastic connector for a catheter. And hospice staff confirmed that Terry indeed had those marks on her arms before the Schindlers visited that day. In fact, they said that before George Felos sent out his press release. Investigators best guess is that Terry was injured on a hoyer lift, a tool used to move bedridden patients. But Michael doesn't buy that. He's still deeply suspicious of the Schindlers. Judge Greer grants The Schindlers a 90 minute visit with Terry anyway. But Michael's guardianship attorney, Deborah Bushnell says the Schindler's visit should be supervised. Pat Anderson takes Bushnell to the mat.
- [13:03]
Pat Anderson
Greer ruled in our favor. He left the bench. There were a bunch of reporters in the courtroom. One of them came up to me and said, Mrs. Bushnell has said that Bob and Mary are not going to get their visitation restored. What do you think about that? And I went over and said, did you say you're not, you're not going to let her parents see her? Despite what the judge just said? She said, yes. And I said, you're going to burn in hell.
- [13:33]
Lynn Vincent
But Bushnell says things actually escalated a step further. Anderson, she says, followed her to the door and told her to watch out. Bushnell says Anderson threatened her. She reports the incident to Judge Greer. Still, Greer restores the Schindler's visitation rights soon afterwards. Mary is overjoyed much.
- [13:56]
Dr. William Hammisfahr
All I know is I could go see my daughter again. That's all I cared about. I don't feel away from her for two months. I was never away from her that long, ever. You know, I just wanted to stay there.
- [14:08]
Anna Johansen Brown
Two months later, the Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in Bush v. Schiavo on August 31, 2004. The Schindlers and their lawyers aren't officially part of this fight. They watch from the sidelines as Filos and the governor's attorneys duke it out.
- [14:22]
Terry Schiavo
But in fact, the legislature has given the power to any person in the of state, state of Florida to raise the question of the rights of a vulnerable adult in an appropriate court. And that's really all this act does. This young woman has a right to have her final adjudication honored by the courts of Florida.
- [14:43]
Bob Schindler
This unlawful intrusion into that right should.
- [14:47]
Terry Schiavo
Be overturned and definitively overturned so her.
- [14:51]
Bob Schindler
Right to privacy can be affected.
- [14:53]
Anna Johansen Brown
The next month, the court hands down its decision. It's unanimous. Now the courts agreed with her husband until Florida Governor Jeb Bush stepped in and passed legislation to keep her alive. Now that bill has been declared unconstitutional and the path is once again open to end Terry's life. But the governor has pledged to appeal the court's latest ruling in October. The court denies Governor Bush's appeal for rehearing the U.S. circumstances. Supreme Court is now the last line of defense for Terry's law.
- [15:26]
Lynn Vincent
On a reporting trip to Florida in August 2021, I make a stop in Titusville to visit the headquarters of Priests for Life. It's a Catholic organization founded in the early 90s with the goal of ending abortion and euthanasia. I'm here to interview someone who lent a heavy seat spiritual and political hand to the Schindler family towards the end of Terry's life. Priests for Life director Frank Pavone.
- [15:52]
Unknown Speaker 1
This was actually like this when we. When we bought the place. We didn't even design this, but yeah. Isn't it beautiful?
- [15:59]
Anna Johansen Brown
This looks like my office.
- [16:01]
Unknown Speaker 1
Does it?
- [16:02]
Lynn Vincent
Yeah. When I move in here.
- [16:03]
Unknown Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [16:04]
Lynn Vincent
With production assistant Lillian Hammond, I follow Pavone as he gives us a tour of the headquarters. There are offices, a library, a broadcast studio and a chapel. In the mailroom, T shirts that say social justice begins in the womb are rolled up and ready to send out to supporters. Pavone's office is right off the kitchen. A green gecko scurries by as we walk in.
- [16:27]
Unknown Speaker 1
These little friends here, they're actually friendly because they eat the insects. I love geckos, those little guys.
- [16:34]
Lynn Vincent
The office is decorated with pictures of Pavone and various presidents. He seems especially proud of the one with Donald Trump.
- [16:41]
Unknown Speaker 1
I was privileged during the campaign to head up as national co chair the pro life Voices for Trump. That was one of the many coalitions that were formed.
- [16:52]
Anna Johansen Brown
Pavone is a firebrand of a priest hailing from New York. Ordained by the Catholic church at age 29, Pavone started as a director of the anti abortion group priests for life. Five years later, he was defrocked in 2022 for what the Vatican called blasphemous social media posts and disobedience to his bishop.
- [17:11]
Unknown Speaker 1
And they've tried to cancel me in various ways. They tried first by saying, well, you can't be full time director of Priest to Life. We need you back in a parish. And I said, well, I'm sorry, but this is my conscience. This is my vocation.
- [17:23]
Anna Johansen Brown
The Schindlers first met Pavone at a national Right to Life Convention in 1999. They struck up a conversation and eventually began meeting privately with him.
- [17:31]
Unknown Speaker 1
And they reached out and asked for my help, initially for my help in simply publicizing the case. And as it was starting to pick up publicity, they said, father, you know, it can't hurt. The more people that know about it, the more people can speak up for us and advocate for us.
- [17:53]
Lynn Vincent
You feel bad for Michael Schiavo?
- [17:54]
Unknown Speaker 1
Oh, I certainly do. In fact, Bill, I've reached out to him publicly in many of my public statements, inviting him to repentance and also inviting him to sit down and discuss the matter reasonably.
- [18:05]
Bob Schindler
Why does he have to?
- [18:06]
Anna Johansen Brown
By this time, media figures had begun caricaturing the Schindlers, particularly Bob, as money grubbing publicity hounds. But Pavone spent a lot of time with the family throughout the Schiavo case, and he says that's not true.
- [18:18]
Unknown Speaker 1
One of the reflections I often make about the family is they were not looking for. For any kind of spotlight. I mean, all they were doing, the reason they ended up in the spotlight is that they were simply living the vocation of a family. They were living the vocation of love. And you can have a very private, humble family. They don't want any notoriety. But when somebody comes in there and tries to interfere with the love that they're giving one another, they're going to fight back. And that's exactly what happened.
- [18:51]
Anna Johansen Brown
In September 2004, Pavone visits Terry for the first time. As with so many others, he's surprised at Terri's level of interaction.
- [18:59]
Unknown Speaker 1
You know, she was there in her bed, and her dad greeted her right away and did the funny thing about the mustache and the tickling. And her mom was joking with her, and it was just. It was just a feeling of a family being together. They obviously had a routine going on. That I was kind of stepping into and witnessing for the first time. And then they welcomed me right away into that whole dynamic of talking with Terry and praying with her and joking with her and so forth.
- [19:33]
Anna Johansen Brown
During these September visits, Pavone prays with Terry. He also has a very specific message for her.
- [19:39]
Unknown Speaker 1
I also often would tell her to unite her sufferings. To Jesus, offer your suffering, and it has meaning, it has value. The Lord is receiving it and is helping others through it.
- [19:55]
Anna Johansen Brown
But there is one person who would come to see Pavone's role in the story as anything but helpful. George Filos would later denounce Pavone publicly as someone who injected divisiveness into the battle over Terri's life. That same month, Pat Anderson officially passes the baton to David Gibbs. She's devoted the last three years of her life to the case, and now she's just run out of gas. Gibbs takes over as the Schindler's lead counsel.
- [20:23]
Bob Schindler
We made the decision that with all the media attention, that anything we could do to raise awareness was at least helping the conversation and in a sense, helping the cause, helping fight for Terry's life. Getting the truth out.
- [20:42]
Anna Johansen Brown
That's why the Schindlers risk the trip to Miami International Airport in hurricane weather to be on Larry King Live. They're desperate to get the word out to anyone who will listen. As they drive, they pass by flattened exit signs and gas stations. First responders speed by. But as they go, the storm lessens a bit. The Schindlers arrive safely in Miami. They check into their hotel, but the power's down. They splash cold water on their faces and collapse into bed.
- [21:12]
Lynn Vincent
Early the next morning, they catch their flight out on a refueling airliner. The airport is still closed, so there's no security. The Schindlers don't even have tickets. But a staffer escorts them to the gangway and they climb aboard. Their sudden entrance creates quite a stir. Fellow passengers recognize Bob and Mary from tv.
- [21:32]
Bob Schindler
You know, there was a lot of buzz. And so we get, I think three of us had, like, kind of a coach row together. So we're sitting there, well, people start coming up. And so we had more trinkets and lucky charms and beads and, you know, here's my lucky silver coin. I've always used good luck and fight for that girl.
- [21:57]
Lynn Vincent
Finally, they touch down in sunny Los Angeles, but they're not in the clear yet.
- [22:04]
Bob Schindler
Unbeknownst to us, Larry King had gotten desperately sick and had come down with pneumonia. So Larry King's in the hospital Someone.
- [22:14]
Lynn Vincent
Else will have to host the Schindler's interview or it may have to be postponed. At least that's what Larry King's staff thinks.
- [22:20]
Bob Schindler
While we were kind of in the hotel trying to figure out whether we're going on TV or not that night, Larry King is in the hospital and gets notified of what all we had done. So when he heard what all we had done, against doctor's orders, signed himself out, and he went from the hospital to the studio.
- [22:40]
Lynn Vincent
For Larry King, the show must go on.
- [22:43]
Bob Schindler
He is sick, coughing, hacking, spewing. I mean, he can't even meet with us ahead of time. And David, I'm gonna kind of. Then he's coughing. I can't hear him. And they kind of do 3, 2, 1. And they throw the finger at him. And he could shut it off. And he's like, welcome to Larry King Live. And a lot of people viewed that interview that have looked at it as a little bit of a turning point, because I think we'd had enough time on that program to get past some of the little snippet comments. But for people to look at the parents, for the people to think about the situation.
- [23:32]
Lynn Vincent
October 26, 2004. Gibbs sends a letter to Michael's team with a new offer.
- [23:38]
Mary Schindler
The next step we took is we wrote Michael Schiavo a letter and we asked him, you know, please give Terry back to us. You know, no strings attached. We just want our daughter. And of course, that letter was ignored.
- [23:49]
Lynn Vincent
When he doesn't hear back, Gibbs calls Philos directly. Filos rejects the offer, but counters with a deal of his own. Let another doctor examine Terry. If she can improve, fine. If not, the Schindlers allow Michael to remove the feeding tube. The two lawyers end the call in a stalemate.
- [24:10]
Anna Johansen Brown
That winter, Governor Bush appeals to the court of last resort. He asks the US Supreme Court to step in to review the state court's decision on Terry's law. But on January 24, 2005, the US Supreme Court declines the case. The state court's ruling will stand. Terry's law is unconstitutional. The following month, Greer orders Terry's feeding tube removed on March 18, 2005. By now, the case has escalated into a political firestorm. Over the last few days, Greer's gotten over 5,300 emails about it. People leave voicemails with foul language. Police escort the judge wherever he goes.
- [24:53]
Terry Schiavo
The real impact was on after work and before work. We had details of undercover deputy Sheriffs at our home 24, 7. They took us wherever we went. I wore A bulletproof vest. When I wasn't in the courthouse and wasn't at home, when I walked the dog, I wore a bulletproof vest.
- [25:13]
Anna Johansen Brown
Police are also monitoring protesters. One officer takes down the license plate numbers of almost 100 vehicles at the hospice and other spots around town. They also keep a close eye on Michael's home. Whenever Jodi leaves the house, they check to make sure she isn't followed. By now, the Schiavos are getting lots of disturbing mail. Michael writes about these incidents in his book. Someone from Wichita, Kansas, sends their neighbors hundreds of postcards announcing, your neighbor, Michael Schiavo is trying to murder his wife. Another time, a lovely bouquet arrives at the Schiavo's house. A protester sent it. The card is signed, love, Terry.
- [25:51]
Terry Schiavo
My house was invaded day in and day out, and these are people pushing their views on me, and I don't understand that. You have your view on things and you have your beliefs on. That's great, but don't stand outside somebody else's house and push that on them.
- [26:09]
Anna Johansen Brown
The darkest letters contain slurs and threats against Michael's kids.
- [26:13]
Terry Schiavo
They used to get letters that they wanted to steal my children. But at the end of the letter, they would. They would quote scripture from the Bible.
- [26:20]
Anna Johansen Brown
The Schiavos have security cameras installed. Someone monitors the cameras whenever the kids are in their rooms alone. Michael blames Jeb Bush for fueling the.
- [26:30]
Terry Schiavo
Craze, And I blame him for most of the actions that people have taken against me. He made my life miserable for the years that I've spent trying to grant my wife's wishes. He likes to preach limited government. Where was the limited government with me?
- [26:50]
Anna Johansen Brown
Police get intel on a demonstration planned at the Schiavos house. Michael and Jodi take the kids and leave, but they return two days later. Jody is determined not to cancel their son's first birthday party. Two family friends, an elderly couple, get the date wrong. They show up on the Schiavo's doorstep in the middle of the protest. Demonstrators waylay them, thinking they're Michael's parents. The hecklers are Franciscan monks.
- [27:17]
Lynn Vincent
Then the Florida Department of Children and Families enters the picture. When the Schindlers originally tried to nail Michael on abuse charges, local investigators declined to get involved. But now DCF wants to look into it. Michael says Jeb Bush has DCF in his pocket, and that's why the agency is stepping up now. DCF petitions Judge Greer for another delay. Postpone the removal of the feeding tube while DCF investigates charges of abuse. Those allegations that Michael had denied. Terri Rehab and wouldn't even open the blinds in her hospice room. But it doesn't take long for Greer to shut down the DCF request. He even takes it a step farther. He declares the court will no longer grant stays pending appeal. Greer says there will always be new issues that can be pled. He isn't going to keep postponing the feeding tube removal again and again. And on March 8, 2005, Greer adds a new order prohibiting anyone from giving Terry food or water by mouth.
- [28:25]
Anna Johansen Brown
Camera crews stake out Michael Schiavo's house. House. Satellite trucks clogged the street outside the hospice.
- [28:31]
Kerry Kirkland
All of the national media converged on this little tiny street, and they were set up in between the warehouses down here with their tents, you know, and their cameras and all this kind of thing.
- [28:40]
Anna Johansen Brown
National reporters are covering the case. People like Anderson Cooper and Sean Hannity. Less prominent, though, are local reporters like Kerry Kirkland. Amid the political narrative sweeping the country, she focuses on facts on the ground.
- [28:53]
Kerry Kirkland
Our top story. Protesters are getting desperate, and the politics of life and death continue. Details in just a moment.
- [28:59]
Anna Johansen Brown
Terry is reporting for Metro Network's Westwood One. But the journalists who write the news copy aren't getting their facts right. They keep saying, Terry's on life support. Kerry is supposed to read that news copy on the air, but it's not accurate.
- [29:12]
Kerry Kirkland
Life. I was just in this constant struggle and battle with the news organization that I was working for at that time to just, you know, report the actual fact that it's a feeding tube and not life support every single morning on the phone with my local news bureau chief, you know, in Tampa, you know, please, can we report a feeding tube? I see that you wrote the wire story again with life support. Can we change it to a feeding tube?
- [29:36]
Anna Johansen Brown
And Westwood One's bureau chief tells Kerry she's biased.
- [29:39]
Kerry Kirkland
And I go, no, I'm not. That's what the actual thing is. And I'm like, I'm telling you, that's what it is. I know the family. That's what's happening. And then, you know, I didn't get, you know, the answers that I wanted from the local news bureau chief. So I would call the national news deck because I'm extra pushy, you know, I want things my way.
- [29:56]
Anna Johansen Brown
Carrie keeps pushing, and eventually she does get her way.
- [29:59]
Kerry Kirkland
And the facts are the facts, right? So eventually they gave in and started letting me write the news stories for the Shia story. And that's where, toward the end, I got. I was given the ability to, you know, write the story exactly as it was happening. I was really getting to report, you know, all of the actual facts and put them on the news wire for other people to read around the country.
- [30:19]
Anna Johansen Brown
Country Kerry wonders if she'd been able to do that from the start. Maybe things could have been different.
- [30:27]
Lynn Vincent
Meanwhile, the Schindlers go to Florida's Second District Court of Appeal. But on March 16, 2005, the court rejects their appeal. The U.S. supreme Court also declines to get involved.
- [30:39]
Anna Johansen Brown
The U.S. supreme court has refused to.
- [30:41]
Lynn Vincent
Hear the Terry's Law case, and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush is running out of legal options. It's just two days before Terry's feeding tube comes out, an emotional roller coaster for everyone involved. Things are changing by the hour as the Schiavo case bounces up and down the ladder of American justice. The Schindlers are worn out, exhausted and emotionally drained. They soldier on, but their time and their options are running thin. Michael and Jody are sitting at home dreading the next phone call, the next update, the next development. They've been in survival mode for months, hounded by protesters and media alike. Jody isn't sure how much more they can take. Next time on Lawless.
- [31:31]
Bob Schindler
The concept was a simple one. Before we allow this innocent disabled woman to die, we want to meet her. We want to see her.
- [31:41]
Lynn Vincent
On the day Terry's feeding tube comes out, Congress issues a subpoena to see her. Lawyers Gibbs and Philos see the demand very differently.
- [31:52]
Terry Schiavo
The subpoena issued by the United States House of Representatives is nothing short of thuggery.
- [32:01]
Anna Johansen Brown
Lawless is of a production of World Radio. Paul Butler is our executive producer and sound engineer. Our production assistant is Lillian Hammond. Music by Will Sheehan. Lawless is reported and written by Grace Snell, Lynn Vincent and me, Anna Johansson Brown. For more resources related to this and other episodes, visit lawlesspodcast.com thanks for joining.
- [32:28]
Lynn Vincent
Oh.