Podcast Summary: Oxford’s Inklings and the Christian Imagination

Podcast: The World and Everything In It
Date: December 6, 2025
Host: Lindsay Mast (WORLD Radio)
Guest: Joseph LeConté, historian and author of The War for Middle Earth: J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis Confront the Gathering Storm, 1933–1945

Episode Overview

This special episode explores the profound friendship between C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien and their efforts to combat the cultural and ideological upheavals of the mid-20th century through their fiction and academic work. Historian Joseph LeConté sheds light on how these two Oxford professors stood against rising secularism, totalitarianism, and literary modernism by anchoring their imaginative writing in a classical Christian tradition. Their story models how "small hands," seemingly ordinary actions and choices, can profoundly shape culture in times of crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Cultural Crisis of the 1930s (01:25–02:08)

• Backdrop: The West was engulfed by modernism, Freudian psychology, Darwinian evolution, social Darwinism, and eugenics—philosophies undermining traditional values.
• Geopolitical “Gathering Storm”: The rise of totalitarian states (Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, Stalinist USSR).
• Theme: Tolkien and Lewis responded to these threats with fiction intended as a "beachhead of resistance" to ideological madness.

The Unlikely and Fruitful Friendship (02:12–03:14)

• First Meeting: Initially adversarial at Oxford faculty meeting, debating curriculum philosophy; “circled each other like tigers in the wild." (Joseph LeConté, 02:26)
• Shared Passions: Quickly bonded over love for ancient myths, heroism, noble sacrifice, and languages.
• Importance of Heroism: Both authors deeply valued stories of the heroic figure standing against the odds.

Defending Classical & Christian Tradition at Oxford (03:14–05:58)

• Reforming the Curriculum: Together, they led efforts to preserve medieval literature and classical Christian inheritance within the Oxford English school.
• Pushback Against Modernism: They opposed the inclusion of modernist, often nihilistic literature (e.g., T.S. Eliot’s The Waste Land) in favor of preserving heroic, meaningful narratives.
  • Quote: “T.S. Eliot, this is the one man that I am vigorously opposed to in terms of the impact on literature.” (LeConté referencing Lewis, 04:44)
• Wider Meaning: This was more than academic preference. It was seen as a principled defense of values under siege.

Writing as Resistance: The Literary Pact (06:31–10:40)

• The Pact: In 1936, dissatisfied with contemporary literature, they resolve:
  • “Tollers, if they're not going to write the kinds of books we want to read, we're going to have to write them ourselves.” (LeConté narrating Lewis, 08:48)
• Assignments: Tolkien (time travel story) and Lewis (space travel story); neither had written popular fiction before.
  • Tolkien: The Hobbit (1937), then began The Lord of the Rings.
  • Lewis: Out of the Silent Planet.
• Greater Purpose: To point to the Christian narrative—heroic sacrifice, ultimate meaning—and counteract cynicism and dehumanization.

Fiction in the Shadow of War (10:57–13:16)

• Did They Anticipate Their Impact?
  • “I don't think anyone could have anticipated the forces of disintegration that would encroach right up to the shores of Great Britain.” (LeConté, 10:57)
• War as Catalyst:
  • C.S. Lewis: The evacuation of children to his Oxford home directly inspired The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe's opening lines (11:09–12:50).
  • Tolkien: The Lord of the Rings writing darkened by the reality of WWII.
• They Endured Bombings, Anxiety, Food Rations—found inspiration in darkness.

The Inklings: Community and Literary Collaboration (13:27–15:10)

• Formation: Lewis and Tolkien founded the Inklings—a group of Christian writers meeting weekly at Oxford through WWII, reading drafts, offering critique, and pursuing “something better” than literature (14:13).
  • “We gather theoretically to talk about literature, but almost always to talk about something better.” (Lewis, relayed by LeConté, 14:20)
• Humility and Trust: Willingly shared unfinished work for critique, “building each other up as writers.”
• Mutual Encouragement: Provided moral and creative support amidst the chaos of war.

Biblical Illiteracy & Writing for a Secular Age (15:44–19:28)

• Lewis Encounters Secularism: Deep surprise that even educated British reviewers missed biblical themes in his works.
  • “Of the 60 reviewers, only two recognized that I was talking about the biblical fall.” (LeConté quoting Lewis, 16:15)
• Strategy Shift: Lewis realized fiction and myth could “smuggle in” Christian truth for a biblically illiterate society. This insight transformed his career (Mere Christianity, BBC broadcasts).
  • Notable Intro:
    • “Everyone has heard people quarreling.” (Lewis's first line for Mere Christianity broadcasts, 18:38)

War Experience and the Deepening Bond (20:07–23:37)

• Shared Trauma: Both were WWI veterans. Friendship deepened in WWII's shadow.
  • Key Moment: Tolkien shares a deeply personal manuscript (Beren and Luthien) with Lewis, who responds not just with encouragement but rigorous, helpful critique.
    • “I've never had such an enjoyable evening in such a long time reading a work like this. Critique is coming, quibbles to follow.” (Lewis to Tolkien, 21:00)
• Support Amidst Darkness:
  • Continued regular lunch meetings “because dark forces seem to be conspiring against us.” (Tolkien to Lewis, 22:29)
  • Cultivated a “haven of sanity and moral beauty” in wartime.

Responding to Evil: Insights for Today (23:37–29:51)

• The Oxford Union Vote (1933):
  • Majority of students declared “under no circumstances” would they fight for king and country—alarming passivity as Hitler rose to power.
• Lewis & Tolkien’s Answer: Drew on classical Christian tradition and the “great books” as an antidote to evil and cultural withdrawal.
  • Quote from student Helen Wheeler:
    • “What happened in the great books was of equal significance to what happened in life. Indeed, that they were the same.” (26:20)
• Lesson for Today:
  • Start where you are, use what you have (talents, stories, actions); “cast your bread upon the waters.”
  • On Heroism: Both authors modeled their protagonists on ordinary people—hobbits after ordinary soldiers, Narnia’s heroes as children—which redefined heroism and affirmed individual agency against evil.
    • “Every individual small hands must do those great deeds…The wheels of the world are turned by those small hands. The eyes of the great look elsewhere.” (LeConté referencing Tolkien, 29:16)
  • Moral: Everyday courage and choice in resisting evil are meaningful and echo into eternity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Friendship:
  • “They circled each other like tigers in the wild…But what drew them together was their love of heroism and sacrifice for noble cause.” (LeConté, 02:26)
• On Literary Strategy:
  • “If they're not going to write the kinds of books we want to read, we're going to have to write them ourselves.” (Lewis to Tolkien, 08:48)
• On War’s Impact:
  • “He writes about it to his friend Sister Penelope: ‘You know, I never appreciated children until they invaded my home.’ And then what we know is in 1939, he wrote the opening lines to The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe... The catalyst of war.” (LeConté, 11:46)
• On Writing for a Secular Age:
  • “Of the 60 reviewers, only two recognized I was talking about the biblical fall…this ignorance could be used as an evangelistic tool—smuggle in all kinds of Christian truth now through fiction.” (LeConté quoting Lewis, 16:15)
• Defining the Moment:
  • “Do what you can do. The value of the individual person—every human soul matters before God.” (LeConté, 27:39)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:25 – Cultural crisis and backdrop for Lewis & Tolkien’s work
• 02:26 – Origins and nature of Lewis and Tolkien’s friendship
• 03:14 – Joint effort to reform Oxford curriculum
• 04:44 – Reaction to literary modernism, especially T.S. Eliot
• 08:48 – The literary pact between Lewis and Tolkien
• 10:57 – Did they anticipate their later influence?
• 11:46 – How WWII directly shaped their writing (Narnia/LotR)
• 13:27 – The Inklings: mutual critique and support
• 16:15 – Lewis’s realization of profound biblical illiteracy
• 18:38 – Opening lines of Mere Christianity broadcasts
• 21:00 – Lewis’s deep, constructive critique of Tolkien’s work
• 22:29 – Maintaining fellowship in the darkest times
• 23:37 – Facing evil—what is demanded of us?
• 26:20 – Student reflection on the importance of the “great books”
• 27:39 – Ordinary people as heroic figures in fiction and life

Conclusion

The conversation between Lindsay Mast and Joseph LeConté paints a vibrant portrait of Tolkien and Lewis’s friendship and strategic cultural engagement. Against a backdrop of war and upheaval, two ordinary professors used words, stories, and the power of myth—rooted in Christian belief—to resist dehumanization and cynicism. Their model: start where you are, use what you have, and never underestimate the impact of faithfulness in small things. Their work and legacy continue to speak to both the crises and hopes of our own era.