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- [00:03]
Paul Butler
This is a special weekend edition of the World and everything in it. I'm Paul Butler. Earlier this week, we highlighted a few minutes of a recent conversation between World's Travis Kercher and early contemporary Christian music artist twyla Paris. In 1981, Paris recorded her first commercial studio project, no One youn Around. She was a relatively unknown songwriter at the time, just 20 years old. However, growing up performing in churches and evangelistic meetings, she was no stranger to the stage. In contrast to many of the female artists of the 1980s and 90s, Twyla Paris took a different path. She was not self promotional. She was modest, singing humbly and simply. Many of her most well known songs have become praise and worship standards. Songs like He Is Exalted, We Will Glorify, Lamb of God and We Bow Down. She would go on to record more than 20 albums with more than 30 number one radio hits and many awards and accolades. Still, Twyla decided to step out of the limelight to focus on her family and lead a life of quieter ministry. In a moment, her conversation with Travis on her upbringing, her faith and what she's been up to. Today.
- [01:37]
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- [02:07]
Travis Kercher
Twyla Paris, thank you for joining us.
- [02:09]
Twyla Paris
Thank you. My privilege.
- [02:11]
Travis Kercher
So let's start at the beginning. You've had a very successful career in Christian music. You released more than 20 albums. You had more than 30 number one Christian radio singles and you were named the Gospel Music Association Female Vocalist of the Year for three years in a row. But take me back, when did you first get involved in music?
- [02:30]
Twyla Paris
Oh, well, I think it was to some degree genetic. My dad was a very accomplished musician and for a while he was actually my piano teacher. So I just grew up, you know, with music in the house all the time.
- [02:47]
Travis Kercher
In fact, a lot of people don't know this, but you cut an album when you were just four years old, right?
- [02:52]
Twyla Paris
Oh my goodness. Yeah. I completely forgot based on that, yes.
- [02:57]
Travis Kercher
Us about the little Twila Paris album.
- [03:00]
Twyla Paris
So yeah, my dad, when I was very young, he was in ministry all, you know, all his life or all my life as, as long as he was here. And he was an evangelist at the Time, which, you know, in those days, what the particular meaning, you don't really hear the word used that much this way anymore. Um, but it basically meant an itinerant minister who traveled from church to church. And so he would be at one church one week, another church another week. So he was a preacher, but he also was a songwriter and singer. And so he had recorded an independent album project, and he had me start singing in church when I was 2, which I guess was sort of my idea. And then he just sort of, you know, went with it. And so by the time I was four, he asked me if I wanted to make an album, and I said sure. So we, you know, we did an independent album with, you know, him playing piano and me singing Jesus loves me.
- [04:05]
Background Singer
This I know, for the Bible tells me so.
- [04:12]
Twyla Paris
So, yeah, that actually once in a while that still, you know, you'll find someone who'll pull one of those out, who's had it for, you know, what would that. 60 something years at this point. So, yeah.
- [04:26]
Travis Kercher
So tell us about your memories of those early days when your dad was a traveling evangelist and you were going from church to church. I imagine that was a very different time. Help people now to understand what your life was like back then.
- [04:38]
Twyla Paris
So I was the oldest child and my next sibling was born when I was 8. And by that time my dad was pastoring, so it was always just my mom and dad and me traveling together in the car. And, you know, a revival also had a different meaning in those days, which I don't know that it was necessarily biblical, but a revival was what an evangelist came and did at your church. It meant that they would preach every night. Everybody would come out to church every night for a whole week or maybe even two weeks in a row. So my life at that point consisted of driving from one town to the next where we would. Then my dad would preach every night at whatever church we were at in whatever town. And so I spent my first several years going to church pretty much every single night of the week and twice on Sunday. And so, you know, those are my memories. And my question was always, as we were driving from one town to the next, sometimes we would stay in the pastor's home, very rarely in a hotel in those days. And so my question was always, do they have kids? Because that meant I'd have somebody to play with for the next week or two, and otherwise if they didn't, then it might be a boring week or two coming up. So, yeah, that was my life. And then when I was about 7. We moved to Springdale, Arkansas, and my dad began pastoring a church. And then my church life went down to only three services a week. You know, I'd be listening to my dad preach three times a week instead of six or seven.
- [06:24]
Travis Kercher
As a child, you learned music theory and piano. Was this formal training or did you just pick it up on your own?
- [06:31]
Twyla Paris
So my dad actually had a degree in piano. He had a Bible degree degree, but also a degree in piano. So even though he was teaching me it, I guess, you know, it. It was formal training. But I first started out with my grandma, who lived right next door. When I was just a beginner, she was teaching me, and then she sort of got to the end, I guess when I was around, I don't know, 11 or 12, she handed me off to my dad and he began to teach me. My dad passed away about, I guess it was maybe 13 years ago now. But he is the person who taught me to love God and taught me to write a song. You know, my mom was there and very important in my life as well. But dad really was the one sort of like mentoring, you know, in particular, and, you know, all that. That that came to be. And, you know, I don't know that you actually can. I don't know that you can teach someone to write a song, but he did teach me music.
- [07:33]
Travis Kercher
But he gave you homework, right? You had to write your first song when you were 12. Tell us about that.
- [07:39]
Twyla Paris
One day at my piano lesson, my assignment was to write a song before next week. And I was like, what? I can't write a song? Well, go try, you know, So I did, and I came back and I'd written a bad song that, you know, I don't even remember at this point. But it. What it did was. And I think he understood this, it demystified the process. It opened that door for me and said, you know, that's not just something that only, you know, certain, you know, you can go in and explore and see if that's something that you can do. So, yeah, he. But he taught me, you know, not just, you know, classical piano, but, you know, as a songwriter himself, I think he understood I'm probably don't have a goal of being a concert pianist, but useful, you know, and as someone in ministry, useful in ministry. So he taught me from a pretty young age theory, music theory, which helps to demystify the process of how can you take that music, including even those chords that you hear in your head, and create that sound on your instrument.
- [08:50]
Travis Kercher
You know, so Is there anything about it that you remember?
- [08:54]
Twyla Paris
Not a thing. I mean, I think it was. So I probably repressed it. I blocked it out. Yeah.
- [09:00]
Travis Kercher
So we know now how you started out musically. Tell us about your spiritual journey. How and when did you first come to know Christ?
- [09:09]
Twyla Paris
You know, I got saved when I was four. I went forward, you know, one night when my dad was preaching in one of those churches. And I believe that that can be totally valid. I think it is for so many, and it young, very young people and young children. But then for me, I'll use me as an example. There were aspects of my life that were part of me by the time I was 18, 19, 20 years old that didn't even exist when I was 4. Like ambition, for example, you know. And so I went through this process of God just doing his work in my heart, you know, being this preacher's kid that kind of thought I had it all together, was obeying the rules, you know, of really laying down and submitting, you know, everything and saying, you know, I want to do whatever you want me to do. I want to be, you know, who you want me to be. So God was just doing this. This intricate work in my heart, just in an ongoing basis. And because I'd been, you know, writing songs and my dad had kind of opened that door for me that just became this natural outlet of me expressing what was on, what God was teaching me, leading me through, doing in my heart.
- [10:26]
Travis Kercher
So how did your relationship with Christ start to affect your music? I mean, at some point you knew this was more than just a hobby. That music could possibly be your career or even your calling. Walk us through that change.
- [10:41]
Twyla Paris
Well, so that kind of goes back to the. You know, when I was about 17, still in high school, I began to wonder, is this something that I might be called to do as a vocation? And I did. It was around that age that I started to write real songs. I guess you would say that you could actually consider putting on an album at some point. So I started writing songs, and by the time I was 20, I just had this big stack of songs, you know, that I would sing for my friends, you know, that was about it. And so my dad encouraged me to record those. And so we just went, you know, he literally co signed for me. We borrowed some money, we went to a studio in Oklahoma City, you know, through a friend of a friend, found someone, you know, who was recommended to produce an independent album. And we just went and did that, you know, and the idea was, you know, we did the Math, Okay. You're going to make. In the. In those days, you'd make albums and also cassettes. Okay. So you're going around and you're singing and you're selling these. How many do you have to sell to pay back the bank? I mean, that was the whole. That was the goal. So. And you can use these in ministry and then you pay back the bank. And that's kind of as far as we thought.
- [12:04]
Travis Kercher
So in those early days, were there certain musicians that you looked up to? Like, who would you say influenced you musically?
- [12:12]
Twyla Paris
So among Christian musicians, he's not very much older than me. Doesn't seem like much now, but back in the day, you know, when he was a young musician and I was still in junior high, loved to listen to Dallas Home and then full circle when. When I was a young musician, I got a chance to tour with him for a while, which was amazing. Of course, Evie Turnquist. I probably. You'd have to be about my age, but when I was, you know, once again, in like, that sort of junior high, high school age, I listened to Evie a lot. Second chapter of Acts. Probably a lot of people even now don't remember Second chapter of acts, the Imperials, Rest Half, you know, but, yeah, my early influences would all be people that the young kids now never heard of. Right. So.
- [13:06]
Travis Kercher
So during this time, you've been producing records, cassettes, independently. Tell us about the day you got signed to your first major record label.
- [13:15]
Twyla Paris
So once again, a friend of a friend, someone sent this off to a company that was starting a new contemporary music. They had done, you know, traditional Christian music, but they were starting a new contemporary label because contemporary Christian music was moving into its second generation at that point. But it was still pretty young, you know, pretty new and fresh. And so we. I literally got a phone call out of the blue from Zondervan, who is best known as a book and Bible publisher. But they had a music division. But this lady was on the other end of the phone, and she said, hi, I'm calling from Zondervan and we'd like to sign you to our label. Can you be at the Christian Booksellers Convention next week? I mean, it was literally as simple and out of the blue as that. And I was like, well, I don't know. I've got to talk to my dad. He's out of town. You know, he's in Thailand right now. He was on a missions trip, you know. So, I mean, it was. That was like the initial conversation. And, you know, I did end up signing with them, Wayne Watson and Michael Card were on. Ended up on that label around the same time I did as new artist.
- [14:31]
Background Singer
We bow down, we crown you the king we bow down, we bow down we crown you the king we bow down, we bow down we crown you the king King of all kings you will be.
- [14:50]
Travis Kercher
I cannot imagine what that must have been like at such a young age. That must have been both exciting and scary. How did life change for you?
- [14:58]
Twyla Paris
You know, I thought, well, you know, it's going to be like, you know, next week everybody's gonna know who I am. Like, like Evie in Dallas home. But, you know, I realized after a while, oh, that's sort of like my permission to start to get to work. And then, you know, and then the work starts, you know, so very, you know, naive. Didn't know what to expect. And much more comfortable, you know, sitting at the piano writing a song and comfortable in the recording studio than I was on stage in the spotlight. That was not a natural desire for me. Had to, like, learn to get comfortable with that.
- [15:42]
Travis Kercher
So how did you get comfortable with that? Did you have to deal with stage fright?
- [15:46]
Twyla Paris
It wasn't exactly stage fright. I remember my dad said to me, you know what, Twyla? If you're God conscious, you won't be self conscious. Think about what it is that God wants to do through you. What it is he wants to say to these people. How does he want to minister in their lives? Through you? Focus on that and on him, and then you won't have space left over in your mind to worry about, oh, how am I coming off? What are they thinking about me? You know, and that was absolutely true, you know, so I think I'm naturally. I took one of those personality tests years later and found out that I was actually a little bit more of an introvert than an extrovert. But I, you know, you learn to get comfortable with it. It's part of what God has called me to do. And I, you know, if I hadn't gotten comfortable with it, I probably would have. I don't know, I would have had a stroke or something, you know, your.
- [16:48]
Background Singer
Only son, no sin to hide, but you have sent him from your side to walk upon this guilty sod and to become the lamb, Lamb of God.
- [17:19]
Travis Kercher
Wyla, over your career, you've written several worship songs. Some of them have found their way into hymnals. I was hoping you could tell us a little about the inspiration behind some of those. Let's start with the song Lamb of God.
- [17:33]
Twyla Paris
Lamb of God is Kind of interesting in that I did just, you know, I sat down and wrote that one day. There's not a single story behind it as such. But the thing about that particular song that really goes to a whole concept is that when I finished writing it, I remember kind of saying to myself, wow, did I write that? And then the answer was really quickly, no, you didn't. And I think, you know what I mean, it's. I always felt like I was dependent on that spark of inspiration that didn't start with me, you know, that was just from the Holy Spirit. And those ideas were living and they came alive as you started to work on them. And those were the ones that would resonate with other people and do God's work in their hearts. You know, I didn't need to be there at all. They'd hear a recorded version of the song and. And a way that I've thought about it a lot over the years too, is that people would. They could take those songs and make them their own. It was like a garment that someone else could put on. And it really never felt like it belonged to me. Didn't originate with me. And I think the things that God, the gifts he gives us, the things he allows us to do in ministry, that's always true, right? Anything that we just sort of do on our own, it just lays there flat. But those things that really are alive and do God's work, they originate with Him.
- [19:16]
Background Singer
He is exalted the king is exalted on high I will praise him he.
- [19:25]
Twyla Paris
Is exalted I wrote that song when I was. Before I was married. I got married at 26, but I remember I was still living in my parents house, you know, where they lived at that point. And there was one central living room, living area, big open living dining area that you had to go through to get from anywhere in the house to anywhere else in the house. So it was highly trafficked area, you know, and I would just sort of block everything out. I could just feel like I was alone in the house. And so I just block everything out and write in that big open central room, which when I think about it now, I'm like, that's crazy. I can't believe I did that.
- [20:08]
Background Singer
We will glorify the king of kings we will glorify the Lamb we will glorify the Lord of Lords who is the great I am.
- [20:28]
Twyla Paris
We Will Glorify was definitely written during that time. I was leading worship at the time in my home fellowship. And I will say some of those early songs, they Were almost born out of. Sometimes you'd be. You'd be leading worship and you'd be sort of reaching for a particular song and you just kind of couldn't think of anything that fit the moment. And it almost. It felt like some of those songs just sort of came from, like, I need something like this. You know, I'm kind of reaching for something like this. And so I would write it.
- [20:59]
Background Singer
How beautiful the hands that served the wine and the bread and the sons of the earth.
- [21:13]
Twyla Paris
How beautiful, how beautiful. I mean, it's been used some in corporate worship and I guess it is in some hymnals. I wasn't thinking of it as that kind of song. And how beautiful, you know, I literally was just thinking through that idea of, you know, when you listen to those words, how beautiful the hands that serve the wine and the bread and the sons of the earth. And then, you know, toward the end of the song, it's how beautiful the hands that serve, present tense. The wine and the bread and the sons of the earth. And the whole idea of the song is that we are to be. We're called to be a reflection of Christ. We are the body of Christ.
- [21:54]
Background Singer
How beautiful the radiant bright.
- [22:01]
Twyla Paris
And, you know, there's the line that says, how beautiful the radiant bride who waits for her groom with his light in her eyes. And I was just thinking about the body of Christ, the bride of Christ. And you might not even be able to believe this, but it never occurred to me, never occurred to me that people would use that song in weddings. And, you know, how often do I hear, even now, still, about some young lady, you know, within the last year or so, you know, who wasn't even born, you know, her parents were probably young when that song was written.
- [22:40]
Background Singer
How beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful.
- [22:59]
Travis Kercher
Is.
- [22:59]
Background Singer
The body of Christ.
- [23:10]
Travis Kercher
Twyla, having written so many songs that became congregational favorites, I think you're qualified to answer this. What, in your view makes a good hymn? And how is a hymn different from, say, a typical contemporary Christian worship song?
- [23:25]
Twyla Paris
So for me, you know, we have certain formats. Sort of when we think of a hymn, we think of older songs as hymns. The songs that draw me personally into worship and the songs that do seem to stay around and be used in that way for longer periods of time. It seems like they are more. They're just Christ centered, they're more vertical. It doesn't mean we can't mention ourselves at all because, you know, we are, you know, the focus of what Christ came to do. But I think. I think, you know, what I mean, it's like for our hearts to be really focused on him. You know, I, I think that the songs that make us think of the lyrics to the songs that we read about in the book of Revelation, the ones that are maybe more akin, you know, to those that just really draw our hearts up toward him and away from and out of our focus on ourselves.
- [24:33]
Travis Kercher
So when I think of your music, I think of two Twylas. There's Twyla the hymn singer, and Twyla the pop artist. So I wanted to ask you about some of the inspiration behind some of your more well known pop songs. Tell me the story behind Watch and Pray.
- [24:55]
Twyla Paris
I think it was more just, you know, thinking about Christ's return. You know, I have a program where I, you know, read through the Bible, I guess the Old Testament every year and the New Testament a couple of times and just finished Revelation just, you know, and started over in Matthew a few days ago. And so that, you know, come Lord Jesus is fresh in my mind and boy, I don't know about you, but I just, I think I pray that prayer a lot these days.
- [25:31]
Background Singer
I can see Jesus in you.
- [25:37]
Twyla Paris
I can see Jesus in you. That's a song I hadn't thought about in a little bit, but many years ago, I don't even remember, you know, what year that was released, but I was watching a little children's choir, they were getting ready to go on a missions trip and they were performing for us, you know, just for the, the local body. And this one little girl who was probably about, I don't know, eight or 10 at the time, her whole face just lit up. You know, they were singing and doing choreography and she was just beautiful. It was like the love of Jesus just shining through her. And literally it was written about, you know, this little girl was kind of like this, the inspiration about that whole little group of kids. And so, yeah, so that's the story behind that song.
- [26:41]
Travis Kercher
The song Neither Will I to Me is different from some of your other songs. It sounds like, like you're singing to someone who keeps falling back into sin. You tell the listener that God won't give up on them and that you personally won't give up on them either. Would you feel comfortable telling the story behind that song?
- [27:03]
Twyla Paris
So there was someone in my extended family who had been brought up in a Christian home and she has since, in the last few years passed away, but she struggled. You know, she'd given her life to Christ, but she struggled and she stumbled and she slipped and fell and then she Would, you know, come back and get on track. And then she'd stumble and. And she, you know, she just dealt with, you know, addictions and weaknesses and in a particular way that were so visible to everyone, you know. And I remember, you know, I. You know, we'd all get our hopes up and then we'd hear that she. Oh, dear. You know, And I remember being tempted to sort of just give up, just sighing and thinking, oh, you know, she's. And just being so convicted by the Holy Spirit, you know, that he. He does not give up on us in that way. And that my responsibility was to continue to pray for her and to hope with her.
- [28:10]
Travis Kercher
How did your listeners respond to that song?
- [28:14]
Twyla Paris
I heard a story of a lady, this has been years ago, too, that had given up on her husband, who had, you know, weaknesses that he kept falling back into, and maybe similar addictions, I don't know. But she decided she'd given up. That was it. And she was leaving him. She was leaving town. She had packed up the car and she was driving out of town, and the local radio station played that song, neither Will I. And she heard it, you know, and she was just thinking, yeah, whatever, you know, and then somehow, I don't know how this happened. Was it was a mistake, was it intentional, was it providential? Somehow? That station, without explanation, when that song was over, played it again, just played it twice back to back. And she said she started bawling and weeping and I'm, you know, pulled over on the side of the road and just said, lord, I'm so sorry, you know, and turned around and went home. So, you know, for me, sometimes the story behind the song is not as great as the story I hear from other people later about how God used the song.
- [29:49]
Travis Kercher
When we talk about repeated sin, it makes me think of some of the more unfortunate and in some cases, horrific scandals that we've seen in Christian ministry over the years. I'm thinking most recently of Michael Tate, the former member of DC Talk and the Newsboys. I won't get into all the things he confessed to. His statement is online, and I think it speaks for itself. But I wanted to ask, is there something about the industry, the celebrity, the touring life?
- [30:21]
Twyla Paris
Well, yeah, in answer to the question, you know, can there be a pull with. I think especially the celebrity, and I think maybe even. Especially also all the travel, all the being away from home, temptation, you know. But, yes, clearly there is. Although it's not just about that, because, you know, we all. What's the verse? I can hardly quote Anything perfectly. Now, because I've read so many translations over the years, I always have these little patchwork quotes. But, you know, he that thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall. Well, that wasn't just written to Christian musicians. That was written to all of us, because I think it's true for all of us. So we all have those particular little occasions for temptation in our own lives. And I think sometimes very talented people, whether it's Christian music, you see this in secular music, too. Sometimes extremely talented people start believing that little lie of the enemy. The rules don't apply to me. I'm different. I'm special, right? And they don't start out thinking it's okay for me to sin. What they start out thinking, you know, I'm so special, I don't need to do all the things that everybody else needs to do. I don't. You know, I don't have to stay in the Word. I don't have to be in a group where I'm accountable. I don't have to, you know, I'm. I'm good. And we're not. We're just not good on our own.
- [31:44]
Travis Kercher
What advice would you give young Christian artists to avoid these temptations? You mentioned Christian community, as simple as it sounds.
- [31:54]
Twyla Paris
I mean, we know what the means of grace are. We know what the disciplines are. But it can be so tempting to get so busy and in many occasions, so busy doing God's work that we somehow get distracted and pulled away from being God's child. And that simple faith, you know, the staying in his word, taking time to just be in prayer, to pour out our heart to him and take just a little bit longer to be open to hearing, you know, his still small voice in our hearts, really being a part of Christian community. And that's where I think the celebrity can. Sometimes there can be so much insulation that it can make it a little more challenging to do that. But we have to find a way. If you don't have to, don't move. You know, we always kind of stayed in that. We moved away very temporarily, you know, briefly, and kind of moved right back because we realized, ooh, we just pulled ourselves up from the soil that we need to be in, that we need to be planted in. And we just went back home. And it was more difficult logistically to live in northwest Arkansas, especially in those days, instead of in the center of everything in Nashville. But we felt like it's more important to be in that spiritual soil, you know, to have those deep roots, to be around those People who knew you before and who aren't all that impressed.
- [33:32]
Travis Kercher
You know, if someone like Michael Tate happened to be listening to this interview right now, what would you say to him?
- [33:40]
Twyla Paris
I think they know this, but I think maybe they don't hear it enough from the rest of the body. We love you. And, you know, the. The song that you were talking about, we didn't really refer to the lyrics, but it's, you know, he will never give up on you, and neither will I. And just the encouragement of, you know, one step at a time. You know, the way we all started following Christ, it's got to be so much harder when your name ends up in the headlines. You know, we're all flawed and we all have things that we have to repent of daily. You know, the Lord's Prayer, you know, forgive us our trespasses. You know, Jesus gave us that prayer to pray. I think he knew we all would need to be praying that often. And sometimes a tiny little handful of people in our immediate family know, oh, I lost my temper and blew up today and, you know, said mean things to the people I love the most. Please forgive me. Whatever it is, you know, we've all been there in larger and smaller ways, but I think at all it's about, you know, taking our eyes off Jesus and, you know, starting, you know, trying to walk on the water on our own and starting to sink, you know, however small or large it seems to be and however few or many people know about it. So I just think it's about getting our eyes back on him, off of ourselves, accepting his forgiveness and the forgiveness of others, and just putting one foot, you know, behind him, one step at a time. Just doing that again.
- [35:26]
Travis Kercher
So turning the page for a minute, I mentioned pop Twyla. Were we ever going to see grunge Twyla or acid rock Twyla?
- [35:36]
Twyla Paris
My goodness. You know, I was talking earlier about the fact that I had so many musical influences kind of across, you know, lots of genres in my young, you know, growing up life, that sometimes I wonder if people thought, oh, my goodness gracious, you know, they. I don't think they wanted any more influences coming out of my music. I think there were plenty. So I don't think they wanted me going in any more directions. I probably did go in every direction that interested me because it was sort of never about defining a genre. To me, it was just about good music is good music. If I love it, the people who listen to my music, they'll probably love it too. If I like it. They'll like it, too. And maybe I stretched them a little too far at times. I don't know. But it's almost like having people over to your house for dinner, right? If you serve them some food that you really love, that you've put your heart into cooking, and you've tried it and you like it, you think they'll probably like it too, and you. You want to share it with them, and. And so I guess it's a lot like preparing and serving a meal.
- [36:53]
Travis Kercher
I want to ask you about one last song. It's one that you released in the mid-1990s at the height of your career. What prompted you to write God Is In Control?
- [37:04]
Twyla Paris
Oh, what was the exact date? It was in the 90s, maybe the early 90s. And just kind of looking at what was going on around me in culture and society. And of course, now that all feels mild compared to what's been going on in culture and the like. It's funny to think about now, but I actually, in the last few years, I thought, man, God is in Control as more appropriate now than. Than it was when I wrote it. But I remember just feeling kind of nervous and fearful and worried, you know, and kind of like, ugh, you know, what's. What's going to happen here? You know, this is just. This is a scary time to be alive, you know, and. And, you know, I just felt like God was, you know, just speaking to me quietly in my heart and in my spirit and just reassuring me, you know, that just like always in the past, in the present, and in the future, you know, he's got this. He's not surprised by any of this. He's not worried about it. His plan is. Is moving forward, and he knows exactly how this is going to resolve. Right? And so that was. The song was really. For me, it was about the macro and me just taking a breath and remembering to rest in him, you know, in light of this world that I was living in. That's another one. That after it was released, people would come up to me and talk or write letters, and they'd say they'd be applying that song personally, not in the macro, you know. You know, my husband had cancer, and God used that song to minister to us and encourage us and help us to, you know, hold steady. And I was like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe, you know, I didn't. I didn't think of that application. And that's, you know, you feel silly admitting that, but that's just how it is. It's it feels, you know, whatever our gift is, doesn't it feel so often like the loaves and fishes? We give this whole thing to God, we share it with the rest of the body, and then it turns into something so much bigger than. And you're like, you know, imagine being the little boy that brought those loaves and dishes, you know, and people have preached sermons on this and. But I just Is true with songs, too. It's like, well, wow, that's a lot more than I thought it was, you know, Which I think just once again, is testimony to the fact that wasn't my song. You know, I had the privilege of that, you know, just coming through me.
- [39:47]
Travis Kercher
So what is it like these days being so well known that I guess you probably have complete strangers walk up to you on the street who feel like they've known you all their lives because of your music?
- [40:00]
Twyla Paris
When people would come up to me and say, oh, I love your music. I love your voice, you know, and younger people, especially kids, it's not. I don't mind it. I don't get offended by it. I appreciate it. You know, they want to. They want to say something. But when someone comes up and says, I just wanted you to know how God used this song in my life, and they tell you their story, that is what sticks with me. That is what means so much more. And so all of those stories, you know, I remember some. Sometimes something will make me remember one I haven't thought about in a while. I don't claim to have the ability over all these years to remember all of them, but all of those stories together, just sort of woven together. That's the eternal value of what any of us who are given gifts, you know, and called to be in ministry, and really, we all are. It just looks different for different people, happens in different ways. But people are going to give us compliments sometimes that relate to our gifts, and we can say thank you, and that's. And appreciate that, and that's affirmation. But when we get those little nuggets of, you know, hearing how God has actually done something powerful in someone's heart that somehow we got to be a part of, as I said, that's eternal. That's the gold.
- [41:31]
Travis Kercher
You're 66 years old. Your last album came out in 2014. But you've been pretty active. Tell us what you've been up to and what season of life you and your family are in.
- [41:43]
Twyla Paris
You know what? I'm in a season and have been for, you know, a while now. I used to Talk about myself. For people who know this ref. The Princess Bride reference of being mostly retired, but I am mostly at home these days. And, you know, in light of the fact that in the limelight was not necessarily my natural comfort zone anyway, I mean, I am. I am perfectly content. God has been giving me and my husband Jack and I, we always, we talk about this often. We always want to be listening for. What are those opportunities, large and small? A lot will be under the radar these days, you know, just opportunities to serve in sometimes small but important ways. Right. Our son is 24 now. He's a youth pastor and a worship leader. Just got married in May. And you know, I look at him and what he's doing. I look at some of my nieces and nephews who are just, oh, man, on, Just so on track, you know, with. With their purpose and calling what God is calling them to do and pursuing him. And I think, you know, they are just ramping up, you know, into being the tip of the spear. I am loving getting to watch this younger generation. It just fills me up, you know, to watch. To watch what they're doing and to have the privilege of praying for them and lifting them up. I mean, I literally woke up early this morning, my first conscious thoughts, around five, with my nieces on my heart and just praying for them one at a time. I'm so proud of these kids and it's such a privilege. I remember hearing my mom and dad talk about this, and my mom's about to turn 91 and she still prays for us faithfully, but it's more fulfilling than even the amazing opportunities you had and the amazing things that you got to do when you see the next generation, you know that you got to have a little hand in helping to raise and prepare and pray for moving into their calling. And there's just nothing like it.
- [44:04]
Travis Kercher
Last question. Twyla Paris, what is your legacy? How do you want to be remembered?
- [44:11]
Twyla Paris
I don't need to be remembered at all, but for however long my songs may stay around, I just want them to be used to glorify God, whether they're, you know, doing his work in someone's heart to encourage him, or whether being actually used in corporate worship, you know, whatever he intended them for, I want them to be used appropriately for his glory and returned back to Him. Reminds Me of Romans 11:36. For from him through him and to him are all things, to him be the glory. Yes, it came from Him. It goes back to him, right? Everything. And really, you know, when I'm gone. I don't think I'm going to be caring about whether people remember my name or not, you know, I don't think I would care at all.
- [44:55]
Travis Kercher
Twyla Paris, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a real pleasure.
- [44:59]
Twyla Paris
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it too.
- [45:03]
Background Singer
Lord, your throne is above any other throne and forever will remain so let the young and the old, Let the high and the low letter Let them praise.
- [45:32]
Paul Butler
This has been a special weekend edition of the World and Everything In It. We'd love to know you're listening. Drop us a line@editorng.org and tell us what you think. Again, that address is editorng.org or you can subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the program. The world and everything in it is made possible by the faithful support of listeners like you. Additional support comes from the healthcare sharing group Medishare. When it comes to healthcare, so many people are frustrated with how much it costs. But more than a million Americans have found relief by helping each other and in the process, saved thousands of dollars a year for themselves. You can find out more with a simple text. Text the word world to 70246. That's 70246. We hope you have a great weekend and Lord willing, we'll talk to you on Monday. I'm Paul Butler.
- [46:44]
Background Singer
Praise Let them praise your name.
- [47:10]
Twyla Paris
Sam.