A kidnapping in Syria and a close call in Ukraine

Summary

Podcast Summary: "A Kidnapping in Syria and a Close Call in Ukraine"

The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim | Release Date: January 1, 2025
Host/Author: Sky News
Episode Title: A Kidnapping in Syria and a Close Call in Ukraine

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim, hosts Richard Engel of NBC and Yalda Hakim of Sky News delve into deeply personal and harrowing experiences from their extensive careers as frontline journalists. Moving away from the usual news analysis, this special episode offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the extreme dangers and emotional tolls faced by reporters in conflict zones.

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Richard Engel’s Harrowing Kidnapping in Syria

Setting the Scene: The Syrian Civil War ([00:00]–[05:23])

Richard Engel opens the episode by setting the context of his kidnapping over a decade ago during the early, intense phases of the Syrian civil war. In 2012, as uprisings spread across the Middle East, Syria’s rebellion lacked the international support that Yemen and Libya received, leading to increased desperation and volatility on the ground.

The Kidnapping Incident ([05:14]–[15:00])

Engel recounts the night of the kidnapping in vivid detail. Leading up to the event, he and his team were gathering a final story near the Turkish border, aiming to document the presence of Iranian forces supporting the Syrian regime. As they traveled in a convoy, a truck suddenly erupted from the roadside, with approximately 15 masked men in black emerging swiftly to seize them.

"I remember thinking very clearly, 'They're going to put me in that truck.'" ([07:17])

Engel describes the immediate fear and chaos as they were forcefully boarded, blindfolded, and restrained inside the truck. The kidnappers exhibited brutal behavior, using flashlights and physical violence to assert control.

Captivity and Psychological Torture ([09:41]–[16:04])

Held for a week, Engel details the incessant movements, psychological manipulation, and constant fear of imminent death. One particularly traumatic moment involved kidnappers forcing the team to choose who would be killed first, a test of their psychological resilience.

"They tried to hurt you psychologically and they seemed to enjoy it." ([15:58])

To maintain his mental strength, Engel employed techniques learned from survival training, such as focusing on pleasant mental activities like cooking—a method he credits with helping him endure the ordeal.

Release and Aftermath ([22:09]–[23:30])

Engel explains that their release was facilitated by a rival kidnapping gang intervening amidst the chaos of the Syrian landscape. The night was foggy and fraught with gunfire, leading to their unexpected rescue at a checkpoint. Reflecting on the experience, Engel emphasizes the profound personal impact, including his decision to prioritize family life post-release.

"Out of darkness, there can be light." ([31:38])

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Yalda Hakim’s Close Call in Ukraine

Embarking on the Mission ([24:50]–[25:24])

Yalda Hakim shares her experience embedded with Ukrainian forces in Mariupol during the low-level conflict following Crimea’s annexation. Despite limited resources and support, Hakim and her small team aimed to document the daily struggles and resilience of Ukrainian soldiers.

A Personal Crisis in the Field ([25:25]–[30:00])

During a particularly intense period, Hakim experiences severe complications indicating a miscarriage while on assignment. Despite being six weeks pregnant, she faces the dual threat of the ongoing conflict and her medical emergency.

"It was a horrible moment where I thought, like you in that moment, what am I doing?" ([28:20])

Hakim details her desperate search for medical assistance in a war-torn area, encountering unwelcoming locals and inadequate medical facilities. Her ordeal culminates in a forced administration of inducing medication at a makeshift military hospital, leading to the tragic loss of her unborn child, Alexander.

Rescue and Recovery ([30:00]–[31:38])

After enduring the induced miscarriage and a grueling 14-hour train ride back to Kyiv, Hakim returns to London. She reveals that despite the immense personal losses, both she and Engel found solace and strength in their families, highlighting the enduring bonds formed through shared trauma.

"Out of darkness, there can be light." ([31:38])

Hakim’s story underscores the unpredictable and perilous nature of conflict journalism, where personal and professional lives are inextricably intertwined with the dangers of the field.

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Conclusion

In this deeply personal episode, Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim offer listeners a raw and unfiltered look into the lives of journalists in war zones. Through their narratives of survival, loss, and resilience, they illuminate the often unseen human costs of reporting from the frontlines. Their stories not only highlight the physical dangers but also the profound psychological battles faced by those who document history as it unfolds.

"You're lying all the time. It's hard to keep track of all of these things because you want to say something that you think could help." – Richard Engel ([14:39])

"Out of darkness, there can be light." – Yalda Hakim ([31:38])

By sharing these powerful accounts, Engel and Hakim honor the courage and dedication of journalists worldwide, emphasizing the essential role they play in bringing truth to light amidst chaos.

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Notable Quotes:

• Richard Engel:
  "They tried to hurt you psychologically and they seemed to enjoy it." ([15:58])
  "Out of darkness, there can be light." ([31:38])

• Yalda Hakim:
  "It was a horrible moment where I thought, like you in that moment, what am I doing?" ([28:20])
  "Out of darkness, there can be light." ([31:38])

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This episode serves as a testament to the extraordinary resilience of journalists like Engel and Hakim, whose commitment to uncovering the truth often places them in unimaginable situations. Their willingness to share these personal stories provides invaluable insights into the sacrifices made in the pursuit of global understanding and reporting.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. Richard here. Happy New Year and I hope you all had a wonderful holiday period. Today's episode is a little different. Instead of speaking about the news of the week, Yalda and I are going to share some more personal stories from our time on the road. We'll be back to normal next week. They tried to break us. There was this one guy in particular, you know, he made us choose who was going to get killed first. He wanted us to choose who was going to be shot and killed first.

[B]

I lie down on this concrete slab and I can feel myself bleeding. I'm just bleeding and bleeding and bleeding. Hello and welcome to the world with.

[A]

Me, Yalda and me, Richard Engel.

[B]

Happy New Year, everyone. I hope everyone had a lovely festive period wherever in the world you've spent it.

[A]

Absolutely. And once again we are together and had this great opportunity of being in the same place at the same time, which always creates for a nice experience. And obviously it's always fun to be with you.

[B]

Absolutely, Richard. And you know what? Something that keeps reoccurring on every one of these podcast episodes that we've done so far. People have been writing in. It's been great to get all of their questions. We've really enjoyed reading them and getting your feedback and responses. But one thing that keeps coming up is people are saying, why won't Richard tell us the kidnapping story in Syria?

[A]

You want to do it? You want to do it now?

[B]

Let's go, Richard. So let's get started. And of course, make sure you follow us and never miss an episode. You can catch any of our episodes wherever you get your podcasts and of course you can watch on our YouTube channel. And if you have any questions, send it to the usual [e-mail] okay. This is sort of one of the darker sides of our business where we go to high risk training, don't we? And we get all of this sort of training to go into these dangerous places. We also try and figure out whether our governments pay or not in moments of kidnapping. I always, it's always in the back of my mind, am I British, am I Australian? Which government is going to come out and get me?

[A]

Well, in my case, there was no payment made. I got out because another group found me. This was in syria just over 10 years ago now at the sort of early phase, but quite intense phase of the, of the Syrian civil war. It's interesting and it's, it's also revealing because I think it's revealing what it's like to operate in a Law, this condition.

[B]

So, so let's, let's talk about this, Richard. Height of the Arab uprisings.

[A]

So we're talking about 2012.

[B]

Okay, so the war in Syria has now broken out. So you and your crew decide and I'm sure at this point you've gone in and out multiple times.

[A]

So. Yes. So to paint the picture, before the, the incident, this as you rightly described it, there had been the uprising and revolt in Egypt. First Tunisia, then Egypt, then Libya, which turned into a war. And it had been going on in much in a similar vein in Syria for about a year. But there was desperation creeping in because unlike in Egypt, there was really no international support for these rebels. There was a lot of lip service in Libya. They got weapons, they had NATO jets flying overhead. The Norwegians, who would have thought the Norwegians were bombing against, were bombing Muammar Gaddafi's forces in order to help the opposition movement. And the, the Syrian rebels thought, well, the same thing is going to happen to us, it's just a matter of time. But a year in, it wasn't happening. So desperation starts to set in and it starts to get darker and darker and darker and trust starts to evaporate.

[B]

Where were you, you and your team, you went into, from Turkey into North Western.

[A]

So we, we were in, I was in, as you rightly said. I was in and out with my team a lot in Syria. We'd been going in and out for most of that year. And you would go in and you would join a rebel group and then you would spend some time there. And we're talking weeks and weeks at a time. We would go in, jump around, go from rebel safe house to rebel safe house and you'd report on the conflict and then you would leave once you've had enough and you needed a little break. And we'd done this a lot, so I knew the rebel held areas of Syria quite well. And this was that one last story. We were on our way out and we were going to go home and there was just one more thing that I wanted to get. So yeah, we were very close to the Turkish border. We were on our way out. We figured, ah, it's close to the border, we'll just, we'll pick up this one last story, we'll have it on tape and then we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll take it out with us.

[B]

So you and your crew, you thought you were going to a certain area to film and get that one last story and then what happened?

[A]

So we were inside Syria already. We met up at the Turkish border because we were meeting with this rebel commander who was going to take us to, to a location. He said he was going to show us some Iranian prisoners. And this was new at the time that Iran was backing the regime and they were linked to Hezbollah. And we were curious because there was no real evidence that Iran had people on the ground working to prop up the, and crush this rebellion. So it was worth it. We, we said, okay, let's, let's, we'll do this last story and then we'll, then we'll get out across the border and we'll go see these Iranian agents and, and, and Hezbollah and we'll see what had been happening. They, they claimed to have captured them in some materiel. So we were going to go and see it. So we leave the, the border and there was a group of us, and there were six of us in total, and a taxi driver, you know, you know, tv. We travel with a lot of stuff. And instead of just cramped, being cramped in the car, we hired this taxi driver because again, it was just going to be a few hours to load some of our stuff in the back of his car. So we were actually kind of a couple of cars moving down the road in a convoy, me and Cameron and with, with sort of the rebel commander, the rest of the people in the back. And then we were trailed by this taxi with some extra lights and gear, and we were driving down the road to go see these, this evidence of Iranian presence in Syria.

[B]

And then at what point did you feel, because you get that feeling in your gut when we know when something is not really going the way that we want it to. You know, we go from being sort of almost feeling a false sense of security to almost feeling a bit aloof and oblivious to where we are. And then actually, no, this doesn't feel right.

[A]

Oh, in this case, it was much more obvious than that. We were driving by the road and then suddenly the guy I'm sitting next to it elbows me. He says, are you seeing this? And I look over, there's a truck parked underneath these trees backwards, so that the rear end of the truck, like a container truck, was facing the road. And the back two doors of the, of the cab, of the container, part of the truck were open and maybe 15 or 20 guys were pouring out of the back all dressed in black ski masks on matching clothing, AKs, and they were jumping out of the truck, fanning out across the road and stopping the car. And I remember thinking very clearly, they're Going to put me in that truck. We're going in that truck. And I looked to my left thinking maybe I can run, because, you know, seconds. This is all very quick. I looked to my left and thinking, okay, I could run, but it's just open, no cover, there's nowhere to hide. And I figured if I started running, they'll just shoot me, you know, there's nothing to hide behind. There weren't even any rocks. It was just open. And then to the other side was the trees, but that's also where they are. And then the next thing I know, they're at the door and they're opening the door and they're dragging us out and. Yeah, they put us in that truck blindfolded you. So they put us in the truck and pretty, pretty rough, you know, I won't say they beat us, but rough. A little bit of slap around and bang the head against the metal side. And blindfold with duct tape. And the duct tape over my mouth, duct tape all up. It took my shoelaces, took the belt. I thought I was gonna choke, so I used my tongue to sort of like push a little hole into the tape so I could breathe. And hands tied up. Hands tied up, everything taped. And they were beating badly. The. The rebel commander who we were with, who was driving, they were using the back of the rifle to. To beat on him. And actually the whole vehicle smelled like fuel. And I think they had been moving some sort of diesel in it or I don't know what had been in this truck before, but it smelled very badly of.

[B]

That in itself is terrifying.

[A]

And it was greasy, it was slidy slippery in. In the. In the back. And it was pitch black once they closed the door. But they were professionals because they had headlights on. So they closed the door, they had the duct tape, they had flashlights, you know, like campers or miners would use. They turned them on, they took off the shoelaces, slapped us around, beat up this guy. And then they're. They're off and moving and they stop. And there was one leader, clear leader. He has a bottle of gasoline and he pours it onto the commander, who's next to me, and he takes out a lighter. I was like, oh, no. Not only is this guy gonna die of horrible death, I'm right next to him and the whole thing is full of fuel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's talking to him, and he takes the lighter and he touches him with it, but it wasn't fuel. It was water. And then he starts laughing. He thinks this is a Big funny joke. And then they take out one of the rebel fighters, right? And they take him down from the truck, and I hear, boom. First he was talking to him, trying begging, mid sentence, falls to the ground. And I thought, okay, he's going to shoot us now, right? That's coming very next. And they left, didn't shoot us all then. And they took us to a safe house and one of the first safe houses, and then the captivity began.

[B]

How long were you held and what was the treatment? Were you, you know, able to talk to them? Did you get to know any of them? What were some of those details?

[A]

So it was. It was a week. It was just a week. Felt like longer, but it was. It was a week. And the reason. One of the reasons it felt like longer is. Well, for obvious reasons, but we were moved a lot. So almost every day we were moved from place to place. So each time you're there, you're trying to figure out the dynamics and figure out your location. The funny thing about being hostage is it's exhausting. Even though you don't move anywhere, your body is not your own, but your mind is racing all the time, going to horrible places and just trying to figure out layouts, politics, dynamics. Who are these people? What do they want? What's going on with my team? Separated from your team, they kept us all together. And you asked if we could talk. It was very difficult to talk because this poor taxi driver who we had just hired was in with us, and he was trying to make nice with the kidnappers. So he didn't know us. So every time we talked, he would shout out, they're talking in here. They're talking. So he would squeal on us all the time, making it very difficult for us to communicate, because then they would come in when he told on us. And you know what they did? They would yell at us and they kicked him. Nobody likes a snitch, so they hated him. He kept trying to win over their favor. And every time they would come in, they would sort of. And they would kick him and they would yell at us or threaten us or whatever. Their general behavior was, I mean, was terrible, but it was bizarre and mixed. There's something in the human nature, some dark recess that likes having power over others. They seem to enjoy it, and they seem to enjoy having this control over us, like pets or something, building fear.

[B]

In your mind every day.

[A]

So they lined us up against the wall. And one time, I remember one of the most terrifying is they. There were several times I thought, I'm gonna die right now. They would line us up against the wall. And I remember they would. They put plastic out in front. You can imagine what that's like. And they lined us up and they put us up into positions. Then rifles are loaded, and they left us there standing up against the wall with plastic out in front with the rifles charged. You're just waiting, and then the shots don't come. And they did this a couple of times in different configurations. And then the other times, they gave us food. And one time we tried to engage with the sort of lead kidnapper, like so. Because you want to win trust. So you're trying to be nice. So it's all about eye contact and smiling and trying to be as. Like, he gave us food. We're like, oh, this is the greatest food. He said his mother made it. So I was like, oh, we would love to meet your mother. She must be a wonderful woman. You're trying to be as you're trying anything you can. Yeah. And then other days, there was no food and there was lying.

[B]

Wonder what he told his mother where he was taking this food.

[A]

I don't even know if it was from his mother. Who knows? Like, the one thing. Everything was lies. We were lying to him. I'm sure he was lying to us. You're lying all the time. All the time. And it's hard to keep track of all of these things because you want to say something that you think could help.

[B]

Did they ask you the classic questions that we're trained to answer? You know, what's your family's name? You know, name your family members. And trying to dig deeper into who you are. I mean, did they know you were Richard Engel?

[A]

Well, they had my passport, so they knew who I was, but I don't think they had a full understanding of who we were. I don't think they grabbed us because I'm Richard Engel. We were the team. We were a target of opportunity, and they knew we were journalists. But I don't know how easy it would have been to do extensive research because just the comms weren't available. And maybe if we'd been there longer, they would have done more.

[B]

As you say. I mean, it was a long week. How did you stay mentally strong?

[A]

They tried to break us. That's what they liked. There was this one guy in particular, you know, he made us choose who was going to get killed first. So he wanted us to choose who was going to be shot and killed first. And we said no, which I'm quite proud of. Actually, and I'm still friends with everyone on the team. We're still friends. And I. We said, no, we're not going to choose. So he said, okay, well, I'm going to choose for you. So he picked one. One of the people and put a gun, pulled out a gun and started counting down and was like, does anyone else want to change their opinion? Anyone else want to volunteer and take his place? I thought for a second, maybe I didn't. 9, 8, 7. Anyone else want to take his place? 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Then he shoots up at the ceiling, starts laughing. So they tried to hurt you psychologically and they seemed to enjoy it. And I guess that was about their way of showing control, revenge, some darkness. So how did I. So to answer a question, how do you stay strong? You mentioned that there was a course that journalists are sent on one of these courses. And I went on one of these courses, and you've been on these courses before. And there was one thing that I remembered and I used. And I had done it years before. It's not that I had just done it, but it stuck with me because I thought, even when I heard it at the time, it was a pretty good trick. And the trick is think about something else, which is harder to do than it sounds when you're in an all consuming, terrifying situation, because you have to regain control of your own mind and think about something pleasant, something you know how to do, and that's pleasant. So maybe you like, I don't know, designing a house. So in your mind, design that house. Or you like building a motorcycle. Okay, build a motorcycle. Take the motorcycle apart. Clean every bolt, whatever it is that you know how to do, that you enjoy doing that slow, procedural, complicated, takes mental energy. Do that. I like cooking.

[B]

And I know you've hosted us.

[A]

Yes, I have. And I really like it. I find it very soothing. I find it therapeutic. I always have. There's nothing that I like more than chopping onions. I could chop onions all day and garlic. And so I did that. I made a dish. I made this one dish elaborately. And I would do it in real time. So I would turn on the. The gas and I put in the. I put on the frying pan, I put in the olive oil, and I waited until it got hot.

[B]

Did you close your eyes and just think about it?

[A]

Yeah, I think my eyes were closed most of the time. Maybe, you know, it would open them a little bit. Just look around if something happened, because it took about an hour. So. Because it was a real. I Cooked in real time. It was a elaborate. I made ice cream, I made canapes. I had wine. I remember the glass. I had a crystal glass, I used five. I set the table nicely because why not? I mean, if you're not gonna have a good bottle of wine on this day, don't go for the cheap stuff. So I got a nice bottle of wine and I had a nice glass. And I remember, you know, because. Nice heavy glass. And I picked, you know, you could hear the glug, glug, glug of the wine going into the glass. And I had the meal every time with someone. So I made it for this young woman who was my girlfriend at the time, Mary Forrest. And we made it together and I had it with her and we would do this. And I decided at the time, if I get out of this friggin nightmare, I'm gonna not just be a boyfriend anymore. I'm gonna marry this girl, I'm gonna have a kid. Life's too short. Too short to drink bad wine, too short to run around being the sort of vagabond cad foreign correspondent. I gotta. I'm gonna. Let's take things seriously here. And I'm gonna have a child. And let's try it, let's try a different path of life. Not give up on journalism, but just change the, change the personal life. Because I kept thinking about this, this, this wonderful young woman. To make a long story short, when we finally got out, I did make the meal and we got married. And then we had a boy named Henry. And as you know, Henry unfortunately was born with this terrible genetic disease. And he passed away after about almost seven years. And can I tell you something? Not only was it sad, obviously to lose a child, to lose a child to a debilitating disease and something you can't stop and you can't control and you do everything you can to make him comfortable and happy and engaged and learn. And we really. And Mary was the primary carer. There was no stone. She's remarkable that she didn't, that she didn't turn over. It just to me seems so cosmically unfair in the context of what we're describing. And it's just like this, this shouldn't be like this. What did this kid do? What did I do? What did Mary do? We didn't do anything. I never even heard of this genetic disease until we found out from the doctor that our son had this incurable, terrible, very severe neurological disorder called Rett syndrome. R E T T syndrome. And it just, it changes people. It Changes people. But to end the story after moving around from place to place. Well, actually, I don't have to end it. Do you have any. Well, there was a lot more.

[B]

Can I ask how you ended up getting out?

[A]

Yes. So we were being moved. And as we were being moved, Syria was chaotic. But you have to think of it as when there's a breakdown of total law and order, you get gangs. And this was a kidnapping gang. Like I was saying, they had some professional capacity and this gang was operating, it seems, on somebody else's turf. So if you think of a mafia, you know, these guys in. Cringe on someone else's territory. The other group didn't like it, so the other group stopped them, liberated us. So they were. We were driving at night. It was a misty, foggy night. I don't know what time it was. It was dark, I'll say midnight, but I don't. I don't. Don't really know. And. But it was dark and we were on this. This rainy road and there was a checkpoint that they hadn't expected, and it was gunfire and, you know, gunshots. And we got rescued by this other group of rebels and taken out of the car and into their vehicles. We spent the night with them. And then eventually they drove us to the border.

[B]

And you went and we all made it.

[A]

We all went. Everyone made it.

[B]

You went home to Mary, and I.

[A]

Went home to Mary, and we ended up getting married. Still married. Going well, despite a rough road. Every relationship has its ups and downs, especially when you go through a lot of, you know, personal trauma and unexpected things. But no, we're. We're. We're. We're still going. We're still going.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's a remarkable story, Richard. I'm glad you've. You know, we're lucky that you've decided to share it with us and our listeners because they've been wanting to hear the story every time you mentioned it. And then you. Obviously, we needed to do a special.

[A]

Episode and you, y'all, I mean, you've been on the road all the time, your whole life. And, and you've been. You've had some hard knocks as well. People see you in the studio.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot. And they see you all dressed up and nice and you're presenting the news, but that's not the Eldequin that I know. I mean, I remember you. You've been bouncing around for a while, too.

[B]

Yeah. You know, like you. I've been in some of these pretty hairy places, and one story that comes to mind when I think about a moment that, that I feel like you sort of changed me. But I arrived in Mariupol and it was maybe three years into Crimea being annexed and there was heavy fighting between Russian forces and Ukrainian forces.

[A]

This is before the latest Ukraine, before what they call the full scale Russian invasion, when there was the low level.

[B]

War between, we're talking post2014, so around 2016, 2017 and low level, but I mean people were dying every day and there was, you know, the fighting going on between the Russians and the Ukrainians and we decided, decided we were going to embed with the Ukrainian forces who.

[A]

At that stage were not particularly capable, not at all.

[B]

I mean they were, you know, they didn't have the, the weaponry and the support from the west that they do today. They were, it was, it was quite shambolic actually.

[A]

So what happened?

[B]

So I went in with a Russian speaking producer, so very small team, and we were in this base and in Mariupol and they handed us our flak jackets and said, put these on. And as soon as I put my flak jacket on, I just felt off something. Felt off. And I turned to the producer and I said, Nick was his name. Nick, I have to tell you. And he said, what? And I said I'm pregnant. And he said, what? And oh, congratulations. He sort of thought, oh my gosh, you didn't tell us this before we made this trip.

[A]

And so people understand the geography of this. Mariupol is like a million miles from any place.

[B]

It was 14 hours to get on a train from Kyiv to Mariupol.

[A]

You're right on the Russian border, as deep into Ukraine pretty much as you can possibly go.

[B]

And Mariupol's being battered at this point, you know, I mean there's explosions and there's a heritage.

[A]

So why are you revealing this personal information as you put on your flak jacket to your picture?

[B]

Because I suddenly thought I'm bleeding and I think I'm having a miscarriage. So I tell Nick, I say, well, he says, well, congratulations. I mean, are you okay? And I said, well, not quite. I think I'm having a miscarriage now.

[A]

Right now.

[B]

Right now. So he went and found a female Ukrainian soldier and she came over, he explained to her and they said there's a sort of a makeshift bathroom, you can go in there. It was completely pitch black in the space. And so I had my phone, I went in there and I was like, yep, definitely bleeding. So I came out and I said, yeah, it's happening, you know, in these Moments you kind of don't really know what to do. So I say, you guys keep filming. You go, you go to the front line, I'll stay back here, I'll figure this out. And he says, are you sure? And I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, because we've always come to the end of this 30 minute film that we're recording.

[A]

So you guys go, so you're doing a documentary. Needed a little bit, A little bit.

[B]

A few more extra shots, as you say. A few extra shots. It always gets us.

[A]

And what, are you just going to hang out in the dark bathroom for a little while?

[B]

So they say there's a, there's like a cafe, like a sort of a hole in the wall down the road. We'll leave you there because we can't leave you in the base. So they, they drop me off. No one even says anything. I just kind of wander out of the car, walk into this space. They drive off and these two Russian speaking women come out and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're speaking in Russian. They're like, you can't come in here. And I'm, and I'm sort of trying to explain. I'm using Google Translate, I'm trying to.

[A]

Say, trying to get into this, into.

[B]

Because they've gone and I've. I don't know where to go.

[A]

So they've left you there, but they don't. The people there don't want you.

[B]

They don't want me. And it turns out it's a child's birthday party and it's a private little room and they don't want me in there. Like, who is this foreign woman who's entered this space? It's freezing cold, by the way, and I have nowhere to go. And my team have gone to the front lines with the, with the Ukrainian soldiers.

[A]

Oh, lonely, terrible, horrible moment.

[B]

It was a horrible moment where I thought, like you in that moment, what am I doing? You know, I'm six weeks pregnant. Why am I here? So I managed to negotiate with these women. I just need to go to the backyard, I'll sit in the back. They're setting up for this birthday party and it's freezing and so I find a patch of sun and I lie down on this concrete slab and I can feel myself bleeding. I'm just bleeding and bleeding and bleeding. Before this story, the two women take me inside and they're cooking this meal and they start feeding me and, And.

[A]

All right, so they did warm up.

[B]

To you a little bit slightly because they're thinking, this woman's mad. Why is she here insisting and not leaving? And they can't understand why I'm there.

[A]

So they give you a little bit of something to eat.

[B]

I have something to eat, but I'm paranoid. I don't know this food. And I'm still adhering to the rules of being six weeks pregnant, even though I'm in Ukraine. And so they let me back out. This woman comes and stands over me and she says. I look at her and she says, I speak English. And I say, oh, my gosh, look, I have come from London. I'm a journalist. We're with the troops. They've gone to the front line. I think I'm having a miscarriage. And she says, I'm a doctor and you need to leave this town of 600 people. You're like, deep in. You know, some.

[A]

Yeah, you should not be here.

[B]

You should not be here.

[A]

So as a doctor, you should not be here.

[B]

You should not be here.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

So she says, you need to. There's a military hospital five hours from here. When your crew comes back, you need to go. So Nick and the team come back with the soldiers. They've got what they needed. She explains to them, from what this woman's telling me, she's having a miscarriage. You need to take her to the.

[A]

Take her to this clinic. Yeah.

[B]

We get to this military hospital and as I'm going in, I see this huge giant of a man, this filthy white robe, and he's smoking outside. And we say, we need the doctor. And he says, go upstairs. We go upstairs and there's these. This like sort of Soviet era room.

[A]

Was it him? Was it was the doctor. He was the guy.

[B]

He puts out his cigarette and he sort of tells me to get on. There's a sink, but there's not. It's not attached to the rest of the.

[A]

Sounds terrible, Horrible place.

[B]

And then there's those. Those stirrups or whatever they're called. What are they called?

[A]

Let's say stirrups. Good enough. I think the image is good enough.

[B]

Okay, so for your.

[A]

For your feet, right?

[B]

Yeah. So I get into that. He says, I need to examine you. I completely freak out. And I say, look, if I'm having a miscarriage, I just want to get back to Montana. He gives me this medication and he says, you need to take this. So we take the medication. We walk out and I Google the name of this medication. And it's an inducing medication. So it's to induce a miscarriage to fast track. So we get on a train from Valnavakha, which is apparently completely flattened now.

[A]

By Russian forces who never took the medicine.

[B]

I didn't take the medicine. We get into a train, 14 hours back to Kyiv. Sleeper train. So I get into Kyiv, we get the flight back to London, and I arrive at this. This clinic in London, and I walk in and I tell them the whole story, and they say, oh, my gosh. Okay, well, we need to examine you. So they examine me, and they show me the screen, and they say, there's your baby. And now he's five and a half years old.

[A]

That's Alexander.

[B]

That's Alexander. We made it. We made it. We made it, too.

[A]

That's fun. That's a nice story.

[B]

So that ended nicely.

[A]

Mine did as well. We're here. I have Theo. We have another son. He's also five and a half. Almost the same. Theo and Alexander know each other.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They're friends. Yeah. So out of. Out of darkness, there. There can be light.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Well, this was a different kind of episode, but more personal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But thank you for sharing that.

[B]

Thank you for sharing. I know it's. That these stories are not easy to tell, but I'm grateful to you.

[A]

And we'll be back next week, and we'll also include some new predictions until next time.