← The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Did America and Israel just ramp up the war in the Middle East?
00:34:05
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- [00:03]
Yalda Hakim
Sky News, the full story first. Hello, it's Yalda, and I'm currently in London.
- [00:17]
Richard
And me, Richard. I'm in Tel Aviv, and we are now three weeks into the war in Iran, and it is showing no signs of slowing down. In fact, the US is sending 5,000 ground troops to Iran. Many of them are Marines. And Trump has threatened NATO, accusing them of refusing to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. And he says this war will only be over when he feels it in his bones. And that is a real quote. All while Iran continues to fire drones at the Gulf and Israel.
- [00:53]
Yalda Hakim
And we know that the Israelis and the Americans are continuing to target top Iranian officials. And of course, Richard, the death toll continues to rise across the region. Welcome to the world podcast.
- [01:12]
Donald Trump
We've been protecting these countries for years with NATO because NATO is us. You can ask Putin. He has no fear of Europe whatsoever. Putin fears us, the United States of America, and the military that was built by me in the first term.
- [01:28]
Andrew Patterson
Even suggesting that a foreign country can put boots on the ground of another country, invade another country, occupy the land of another country, is something very much rogue, very reckless, and against all international law.
- [01:44]
Donald Trump
Hezbollah is a big problem, and they're rapidly being eliminated.
- [01:56]
Richard
Yalda, you made it home. Good to see you. You're looking remarkably rested and well. Or maybe I shouldn't call you Yalda. Maybe you are Yalda Hakim, total hack and loser, as Steven Cheung at the White House Director of Communication called you.
- [02:15]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah, he called me a lowlife. We could talk about that.
- [02:18]
Richard
A lowlife, too.
- [02:19]
Yalda Hakim
A low life, too.
- [02:20]
Richard
Just better and better.
- [02:21]
Yalda Hakim
He basically went nuts at me because I put out a twee tweet on X. Basically, I was talking about an interview that Sky News did with the Treasury Secretary. And the Treasury Secretary, in the middle of the interview, was summoned by the President to the Situation Room. When he came back, he looked quite shaken and rattled. So I just kind of made that observation. Stephen Cheung went insane calling me a loser, a hack, a disgrace to my profession, a low life for saying that. And the MAGA sort of crowd jumped on that bandwagon. And I thought, rather than going back and forth in the sewer that is social media and going down that rabbit hole, I thought I'd defuse the situation. And I put up a GIF or a meme of 50 Cent and told Stephen to just chill out. And he didn't respond to that. So, anyway, that was my little story.
- [03:21]
Richard
I'm starting to engage in social media more.
- [03:23]
Yalda Hakim
I know it suits me.
- [03:25]
Richard
It's a sewer. But you gotta, if AI is learning from this sewer, I figured we've gotta try and put something good into it.
- [03:36]
Yalda Hakim
And I mean your posts, you know, updates on how you cope in a conflict zone. You've been giving lots of tips, their public service.
- [03:44]
Richard
I don't know what I'm doing. I'm brand new to it, but I'm trying it out. I normally avoided it because it was such a toxic sewer.
- [03:51]
Yalda Hakim
Ignore the comments, but I think it suits you.
- [03:56]
Richard
But we are not. Thank you. We are not ignoring the comments on this show. We're going to have a lot of addressing a lot of questions and as we promised at the end of last week, we are going to talk about what's happening in Lebanon. It's been a war within a war. It's expanding, it's very significant. Israel is describing it as forward defensive operations so that they're forward deployed but to defend the homeland, sort of this idea if we're going to have an offensive of, of defense. And we've had some amazing questions from, from the viewers about Lebanon and other subjects. So we're going to get to those.
- [04:35]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah, Richard, the questions have been coming thick and fast and we're going to try and answer them here on the podcast today as we have been in the last few weeks. But of course you can follow us wherever you get your podcast on Spotify or Apple and follow us, watch us on YouTube, send us your questions as well. The usual place, the worldatsky.uk let's get. So Richard, as you say, I got back home, I'm going to head out back to the region hopefully at some point in the coming week. But you're still in Israel and we've been getting a lot of questions on YouTube, especially about what you are and aren't allowed to report on from Israel. So I'm going to ask you this question which has come from Salma Amar. He says, hi Richard, are you a able to report the truth and correct ground information from Tel Aviv considering the strict censorship? And this one from Ben Secourt123 who says can you tell us what percentage of missiles are not getting intercepted by the Iron Dome?
- [05:47]
Richard
Okay, perfect. This is a great question. A lot of people are wondering it and the two questions sort of relate to each other. So can we report freely and accurately with the censorship rules in place as they are? Yes and no. I can't get into Gaza. We can't get into Gaza, which is an enormous story. It is a massive story. It is an ongoing story. It is an Everyday story and we're not allowed. So on one level, I would say absolutely not. Can we do our jobs here? Because we can't get into and get access to, except with the US Israeli military when and they allow us get to that place physically and report independently. So that is an enormous, glaring black hole. Put that aside. The censorship rules that are in place now are not anything like that. They are old military censorship rules that are on the books that basically are in place for targeting. So it answers the second question. Could I say while on air, ah, wait, that incoming rocket almost hit the Ministry of Defense, but it missed it by 30ft. I can't do that. That's targeting information. So while there are incoming attacks, particularly if you're in a high place in a strategic overlook, overwatch position, you're on top of a hotel and below you is a military base or the port of Haif or even strategic parts of Tel Aviv. I can't just leave the camera rolling 24 hours and having it broadcast pictures. If I'm standing there in front of the camera doing my reports, what's going on behind me, what's going on behind me happens, it happens, I'm there. But I can't help with the targeting per se.
- [07:51]
Yalda Hakim
You can't do that in Ukraine either, Richard. I mean, there's a lot of places where there are conflicts and wars taking place where basically, and frankly, I don't
- [08:01]
Richard
think that's my role. I'm not there to help either side with targeting. I'm there to try and figure out hopefully what's going, understand quickly and explain it to people clearly. That's the basic job. I'm not trying to help people target and be an active participant in this war. I want to watch the war. I don't want to help it. So that is there. I don't need to send scripts in to some sort of Israeli censorship office. Right now we're talking. This isn't going through an Israeli censorship office. There's no one on the line listening. Well, they might be on the line listening in the background, listening that I don't know technology is there, but there's no one that I'm aware of who's been conferenced in, who's listening and who's going to come back and review the show and tell me what I should or shouldn't have said. So I would say the glaring, glaring issue is Gaza, where there is a massive story and we are not allowed to cover it in any way, shape or form except under these, you know, except with Handcuffs on.
- [09:12]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah. And I just want to also say, you know that we have a team currently on the ground in Iran and they have no access to the Internet. There's a complete blackout across the country because the regime is so concerned that they've been infiltrated and there are spies essentially all over the place giving military targets and other facilities of the government away. So they've now basically shut down the Internet. So this is not just an information war, but there is concern about the areas that are being targeted from both sides. And so, yeah, I mean, when we talk about censorship, there is a level of concern when there is war about certain targets being given away by people.
- [10:04]
Richard
Which went back to that second question which I did not Ignore by Ben Secourt123. He says, can you tell us what percentage of missiles are getting intercepted by the Iron Dome? Even if I knew the exact percentage, that would be the kind of targeting information that would be restricted. If I said, well, the Iron Dome only carries X number of missiles and the reload time takes four seconds and its range is exactly this. And it misses most often when it's fired, receives from the when there's high wind and the cloud cover. If I had specific information about missile defense systems, that would also fall under the military guidelines in this country and frankly and Ukraine and in many others where the point is not to be targeting, helping people target and more accurately adjust their fire. Okay, should we go on to the next question? This one goes to you and it's about the Gulf states. And this one is from Kelly Raisi from it's via email and it says, I was listening to your last show and I heard about the various Gulf countries and how angry they are with Iran for attacking and in some cases ruining their businesses and attacking civilian sites. When speaking to Gulf leaders, did you get a chance to ask, ask their explanation on how they themselves have put their countries at risk by allowing the US And European countries to have military facilities on their territory. So Yalda, do they feel that hosting these bases has harmed them and made them targets?
- [11:51]
Yalda Hakim
I think that what we're finding now we're hearing increasingly from these Gulf leaders is that they are suddenly realizing how exposed they are. These bases were supposed to be there as a form of security guarantees. Never did they think, you know, the fact that they sell themselves, their entire brand is safety, security, a place where expats can come and live and do business and treat as almost a safe haven, frankly. You know, a place like Qatar is where Hamas had their offices and still do the Taliban have their offices, and yet we don't see terrorism operate and function within their society equally. They have these US Bases in their country. The largest base in the Gulf is in Qatar, and they have the US Central Command there as well. So I think for these Gulf states, it was a form of security guarantee. And now they're suddenly realizing that they're being targeted by these lethal drones, by ballistic missiles. We saw two fighter jets, Iranian fighter jets, into Qatari airspace and Qatar saying that they, they shot them down. The threat from Iran is incredibly real. And never did they think, and frankly, Trump has admitted this too, that these Gulf states would be targeted in this way, that it would be part of the calculus of the Iranian regime, the Revolutionary Guard, and they would suddenly become fair game.
- [13:22]
Donald Trump
They weren't supposed to go after all these other countries in the Middle East. Those missiles were set to go after them. So they hit Qatar, Saudi Arabia, uae, Bahrain, Kuwait. Nobody expected that. We were shocked. And the other one, you know, they fought back.
- [13:43]
Yalda Hakim
And, you know, when I interviewed the Qatari Prime Minister, he talked about the fact that this was betrayal. He viewed it as betrayal because they've always had diplomatic relations, open channels. By Iran, by Iran.
- [13:54]
Richard
So the blame was not that. The fact that we had the basis. The fact is that Iran attacked us while we weren't doing anything. But did they have to go back to the viewer's question, a sense of, we brought this upon themselves by hosting these bases.
- [14:11]
Yalda Hakim
I think they're rethinking what it means to have these U.S. bases there. And I think they're rethinking what it means for them to have collectively a security pact amongst themselves, amongst the GCC states to ensure that in the future they, you know, safeguard themselves. When I've spoken off the record and on the record to diplomats and leaders in the Gulf, they've said that our concern is not that we will reach some kind of ceasefire, but what happens beyond the ceasefire? How will we have lasting peace and ensure lasting peace despite these bases being in our states and us having these US Military bases here? Why hasn't that offered us a level of security guarantees? Do we need to then invest in drone interceptors? And we talked about this last week on the podcast that, you know, the Ukrainians will potentially be one of the winners because they have managed to create those drone interceptors.
- [15:09]
Richard
Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that. I've been thinking a lot about Ukraine. I worry they're going to be a big loser in this but longer discussion.
- [15:17]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah, but what I wanted to say about this was the fact that they're having to rethink this for themselves. And by the way, a point that after my interview that was made to me by many of these Gulfsters, the Iranian regime says that these attacks are being launched from neighboring countries, some friendly neighboring countries. But the Qataris wanted to reiterate to me that they haven't allowed for direct strikes from their bases, from these American bases on Iranian soil. So they wanted to reiterate that those bases are not being used for these attacks on the Iranian regime, which they have relayed back to the Iranian regime. And the Iranian regime is saying, well no, even the Google office is fair game as far as we're concerned. Any American company, the businesses, the military facilities that are on your soil is a threat to us and we are going to target them. So the area that I was staying in, Musharra, which is downtown Doha, has a lot of these American businesses based there. Had to be evacuated. Many of the offices were evacuated in the last few days.
- [16:29]
Richard
Yeah. So it's not self blame. Don't blame us, we're the ones under attack. Blame the Iranians who are hitting our cities and threatening our business and threatening financial institutions. It wasn't, Gee, if we hadn't had the American troops, we would be, you know, all safe.
- [16:47]
Yalda Hakim
Yes. Not the mood Now I've got another question here and this one is from John via email. He says, Richard and Yalda, my question is, do you think there will be American boots on the ground? Why else would President Trump be sending thousands of troops to Iran? Iran? If not. Why don't you go first, Richard?
- [17:08]
Richard
This brings us up to Harg Island. Now Harg island is this industrial oil facility, small island just off the Iranian coast and the US just bombed it. Pentagon announced it destroyed all of its defenses but left the oil actual facilities intact.
- [17:31]
Donald Trump
And as you know, we attacked Carg island and knocked it, knocked it literally destroyed everything on the island except for the area where the oil is. I call it the pipes. We left the pipes. We didn't want to do that. But that we will do that. We can do that on five minutes notice. It'll be over.
- [17:52]
Richard
And Hog island is, sits right there, right in the middle of the Persian Gulf, right in the Hormuz, in this key waterway. And it's responsible for 90% of Iran's oil industry.
- [18:08]
Donald Trump
Just one simple word. And the pipes will be gone too. But it'll take a long time to rebuild that.
- [18:12]
Richard
And almost all of the oil from there goes to China. Incredibly strategic. Without it, Iran's economy can't really function. And it's an island. And islands have always been places that militarily powers have. Have tried to take over. There is some discussion that these troops could be used to seize or control Hog island, because we're talking about 5,000 troops that are being sent now. 5,000 troops is not nearly. Not even close. Not even close to close to being the kind of force you would need to take over a country the size of Iran, where the country is still intact. It's huge. It's covered with mountains. The US Sent in far more troops than that to take over Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which is basically flat. This is a different story. It's been an air campaign. And now a relatively small number of troops is coming. 5,000. But they do include a Marine Expeditionary Unit. It's called a mu. And they do one things, these Marine Expeditionary Units think D Day. They do beach landings. They have these amphibious craft that can come off of big ships and they can land on beaches and take beachheads. That's what they were built to do. That's what the Marines are all about. They are soldiers at sea. That's what the Marines were established to do. When you look at Hog island and how strategic it is and the fact that the US Just destroyed all of its defenses and left it vulnerable, it seems like a possible objective that the US could, in theory, consider taking, seizing maybe and using it as another island in the middle of a dangerous waterway to control both sides of the Strait.
- [20:09]
Yalda Hakim
And Richard, the idea that, frankly, these Marines are going to be able to somehow secure the Strait of Hormuz is fanciful, frankly, because you send American troops, boots on the ground, 17 miles away from the coast, and what you have is them having to deal with lethal drones. This is a way for the Revolutionary Guard to sort of bleed American lives, essentially, with these boots on the ground, they're going to have to defend themselves from the ballistic missiles, the drones, you know, in an area in a place that they're not necessarily accustomed to. I think it's quite an extraordinary move for a president who talked about being the president of peace and talked about ending these forever wars, has now decided to send boots on the ground potentially, and says this war will last another six weeks. It'll take a couple of weeks for these Marines to get there. And I think what we will find is, frankly, American body bags. Everything that he has said that he doesn't want by putting them on the front lines of this war.
- [21:28]
Richard
There's a lot of risks to having a Long term presence in the region, because if you break it, you own it. If you take it, you own it. What are you gonna do? You're gonna hold it for a little while and then give it up? Or does it become a long term presence? If there's been no straight announcement that the US Is going to capture this island, Hog island, but there's been, if you read military sort of analysts and you look at the situation and you look why they're sending troops and that number of troops and a Marine Expeditionary Unit, it's not very difficult to get from 1 to 1 and end up with 2. It's also that the US gets stuck, or that there's an international coalition that nobody seems to want to join that gets stuck patrolling waterways that are not necessarily littered with big magnet balls that explode. That could also hit Chinese ships, which Iran doesn't want, could hit Japanese ships, it could hit the European countries that are trying to stay out of this. More likely you'd see a dangerous waterway that has these sea drones or rocket attacks or targeted things. I could anticipate that more. As we're talking about the potential pitfalls of occupying, maintaining, and acting as the policeman of the Strait of Hormuz forever,
- [23:02]
Yalda Hakim
you're basically pouring all of these resources for something that feels like it's going to have a lot of gain but doesn't in the end. And what could potentially happen is you either leave in disgrace, bleed American lives, and playing into the strengths of the Revolutionary Guard rather than playing into your own strengths. So we'll have to see how that pans out, Richard but before we go to a break, basically in the last hour or so before we were recording, we got some news that one of the sort of most powerful people within the regime, one of the top national security officials, Ali Larajani, had been targeted in a strike by the idf. The Israeli Defense Minister has now confirmed that he has been killed. So Ali Larajani, the top commander of the Basij, and his deputy, confirmed or confirmed dead.
- [24:01]
Richard
And this news is just coming in, but it follows yesterday President Trump said, you know, we don't know who we're dealing with over there, and we don't
- [24:09]
Donald Trump
even know their leaders. Look, all of their leaders are dead as far as we know, but they're all dead. We don't know who we're dealing with.
- [24:19]
Richard
And he said the Iranians will make a deal, but we don't know who's in charge.
- [24:24]
Donald Trump
We have people wanting to negotiate. We have no idea who they are.
- [24:28]
Richard
And he said there was the first generation of people, and we were talking to them, then they gathered and we killed them. Then there was a second generation of people. They gathered. We killed all of them. And then he seems surprised that he doesn't know who's on the other end of the phone. He's saying, we've killed all their leaders and we keep killing their leaders. And now these new voices are coming on the phone and we don't know who they are. So how do we negotiate with them? But don't you see the inherent problem with this situation? If you keep killing the leaders, then you don't know who is going to be next on the phone. And President Trump in this same press conference was kind of openly having this debate, and he was saying, you know, well, we could end the war now and we've got a military objective and we've set them back 10 years, and we could just. We could just walk away and end it now, or, you know, we could go further and have this uprising. But the uprising hasn't really happened because the people there all have guns.
- [25:32]
Donald Trump
The biggest problem, and, you know, we have British brave people in this room, but the biggest problem that I see is that, you know, they put out a warning and we have the warning. We get everything they get. And he said, any protester that goes onto the street will be immediately shot.
- [25:46]
Richard
And then we could negotiate, but we don't know who the negotiators are. So in real time, it was quite evident that he is trying to figure this out as it goes.
- [25:58]
Donald Trump
And they put out, actually, a notice two days ago. If you protest, if you protest, you will be shot and killed. So I don't know.
- [26:10]
Richard
And with this latest information that you just reported, as it's coming in, they've taken out another very prominent figure who was someone, yes, responsible for a brutal crackdown that killed thousands of people in January. Not solely responsible, but deeply involved in it. But it was also a name that the Americans knew who has power in the country, who potentially could be worked with. Lots of people have dark histories, and President Trump has even said he's not looking necessarily for a democracy. He just wants someone who we can work with. If you keep taking out the leadership and subsequent wave after wave after wave, it's very difficult, it would seem to me, to then argue that you don't know who's picking up the phone at the other end of the line.
- [27:03]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah, absolutely, Richard. Let's go to a break. When we come back, we'll give a brief update on the situation in Lebanon.
- [27:22]
Yasmin Vesugian
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- [28:03]
Yalda Hakim
Welcome back to the World podcast. So, Richard, let's talk about Lebanon, because there's been a lot of attention on the situation in Iran, but very few people are focusing on the fact that we are seeing Beirut being bombed. They've been putting out leaflets telling people to evacuate their homes, giving them very little time to move. And we've seen the death toll now reach well over 800. Over a million people have been displaced from their homes. We've all seen this played out before. You and I were there in late 2024 when Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, was killed. Much of the Hezbollah leadership was decapitated. There was a feeling that Hezbollah had more or less been eliminated. But of course, once the war in Iran began and the supreme leader was killed, we saw Hezbollah launch some say symbolic rockets on Israeli territory in the north of Israel. But that really gave Israel, frankly, another excuse to go in and go after much of the remaining Hezbollah fighters and whatever's left of their leadership. But we' civilians being killed. We're seeing people driven from their homes, and the situation is just absolutely horrific.
- [29:25]
Richard
Yes, it's very much been this war within a war, and it's a very serious one, and it's expanding rapidly, particularly this ground war. There are already thousands of Israeli troops operating inside Lebanon. More appear to be heading this way. And they've released maps. The Israeli military has put out these evacuation order maps telling people to leave southern Lebanon because it is now an active war zone as Israeli troops on the ground are engaging in combat with Hezbollah. And here in Israel, there's open talk about creating effectively a buffer zone of taking a buffer zone that would extend to the Litany River. So slicing off a piece of southern Lebanon, occupying it and holding it so that northern Israelis, people who live in the north of the country, near the border, can go back to their homes. So Israel is expanding its buffer zone, its perimeter of defense. And it looks like Lebanon is the main target right at the moment, as thousands of Troops are going in there and more heading their way.
- [30:38]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah, absolutely. And we are going to track the situation in Lebanon very closely, Richard, in the next few weeks. We're being told this war could go on for a total of six weeks or more. But we'll have to see whether Iran wants to take any of those off ramps as well, because we started off with this war with a number of objectives. You know, regime change was. Was one of them taking out missile launches and missiles and nuclear facilities. Now victory could be securing the Strait of Hormuz, which is. Which is, you know, extraordinary that we are where we are. Before we go, Richard, I just want to give a slight, really quick update on the situation in Afghanistan, Pakistan, something I've been tracking very close. As we know, there have been skirmishes on the border between the two countries, and Pakistan has launched a number of airstrikes in major cities like Kabul and Kandahar, claiming that the Afghan Taliban have given sanctuary to the Pakistani Taliban, which is launching and militants launching attacks on Pakistani soil. The irony of all of this is that the Pakistani spy agency and its military trained, harbored, funded the Afghan Taliban for decades, going going back to after the fall of the Soviet. They basically had a lot of influence and a hold over the Afghan Taliban, basically.
- [32:02]
Richard
Remember, a Pakistani military official told you that on air. He was like, yeah, we were doing this for a long time.
- [32:07]
Yalda Hakim
Exactly. And so now that they've installed essentially their puppets into government, they're now no longer their puppets and they want to do it their way. And the puppet masters are furious, saying, you've got good relations with the Indians. You're harboring these terrorists. The Afghan Taliban say they're not harboring terrorists in Afghanistan. Overnight we saw a drug rehabilitation center which I've been to, which has about a thousand beds. When I was there in 2023, they had 3,000 of these drug addicts crammed into this facility that was completely overwhelmed under resourced, and they were trying to rehabilitate these drug addicts. It was struck overnight. The Afghan Taliban claims over 400 people were killed. The Pakistani government denies this and says that they were targeting terror facilities. When I went there, it wasn't a military installation, but, you know, we're yet to get more information on the ground. So the situation there has really deteriorated. And while the world is focusing on the situation in Iran, frankly, one of Iran's, you know, neighbors to its east is at war again.
- [33:18]
Richard
Well, like all things, they're connected. Are you saying that it sounds like you are, that Pakistan got involved in a regime change operation. They were going to oust the Americans and they were going to use the Taliban to do it. They were going to use the Taliban to be such a terrible stone in the American soldier's boots that the Americans were just going to hate it and leave the country eventually because they were going to be caused, and they did, pain by this insurgency. And they did. And then you're saying. Saying that the force they used, it now turns on them and things aren't going exactly as planned. Gee, that. That sounds familiar to me.
- [33:58]
Yalda Hakim
Yeah. Richard, we've watched this movie before, but we will be tracking this story as well. It was really good to see you. You're still in Israel. I'm back in London, but I'll be back out in the region over the next week or so and I hope to see you somewhere on our travels.
- [34:15]
Richard
I will see you around campus.
- [34:17]
Yalda Hakim
Richard, good to see you. And thank you so much to our listeners for listening, listening.
- [34:20]
Richard
And keep sending the great questions. We're loving them.
- [34:37]
Donald Trump
Your country's in big trouble.
- [34:39]
Andrew Patterson
The world is a pretty confusing place right now.
- [34:42]
Richard
How long have you known about Andrew and at the state?
- [34:45]
Andrew Patterson
I'm new Patterson. And after 20 years reporting and presenting for Sky News, one thing's become clear. People don't just want to know what's happened, they want to know why. Our new daily podcast takes one story at a time, explains what's really going on and why you need to know. This is why. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.