The big bust-up between Trump and Zelenskyy

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Emergency Podcast: The Big Bust-Up Between Trump and Zelenskyy"

Episode Release Date: February 28, 2025
Podcast: The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Host: Sky News

---

Introduction

In this particularly tense episode of "The World," hosts Yalda Hakim and Richard Engel delve into an unprecedented public confrontation between former U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Recorded mere half an hour after the heated exchange unfolded in the Oval Office, Hakim and Engel provide an in-depth analysis of the fallout from this diplomatic debacle, exploring its implications for U.S.-Ukraine relations and the broader geopolitical landscape.

---

Background of the Meeting

The meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy was highly anticipated, primarily focused on the signing of a significant minerals deal intended to bolster Ukraine's economy without imposing a hefty financial burden. Preparations were meticulous, with the signing pens ready and a carefully curated lunch menu—including chicken, salad, and crème brûlée—set for the occasion (02:02).

However, tensions rapidly escalated approximately 40 minutes into the discussion, transforming what was expected to be a routine diplomatic engagement into a public spectacle. The presence of Vice President J.D. Vance added fuel to the fire, as his comments ignited the confrontation (05:03).

---

Breakdown of the Argument

Yalda Hakim opens the discussion by setting the scene of the deteriorating relationship between the two leaders, noting Zelenskyy's challenging position given Trump's overt skepticism about his leadership and Ukraine's stability. Richard Engel emphasizes the severity of the confrontation, highlighting Trump's remarks that labeled Zelenskyy as "gambling with World War Three" (05:38).

The exchange reached its peak when Vice President Vance aggressively questioned Zelenskyy's demeanor and gratitude towards the United States. Vance's remarks insinuated that Zelenskyy was unappreciative of the U.S. support, particularly criticizing Zelenskyy's absence during Trump's campaign activities (05:26; 12:53).

Zelenskyy's steadfast response underscored his commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty and his frustration with what he perceives as inadequate support and unrealistic demands from the U.S. side. His refusal to acquiesce to Vance's and Trump's pressure, especially regarding security guarantees, marked a significant departure from typical diplomatic protocol (07:53).

---

Key Quotes and Analysis

1. Donald Trump's Accusation:

   "You are gambling with World War Three."
   05:38

   Analysis: This statement reflects Trump's attempt to frame Ukraine's predicament within a larger, more dire global conflict narrative, possibly to justify a more assertive stance or to undermine Zelenskyy's position.

2. Vice President Vance's Challenge:

   "Why don't you wear a suit? You're the highest. Why don't you wear a suit?"
   12:42

   Analysis: Vance's focus on Zelenskyy's attire serves as a metaphorical attack on his perceived professionalism and respect for the diplomatic process, shifting the conversation from substantive issues to personal reprimand.

3. Zelenskyy's Defiance:

   "I will wear costume after this war will finish. Okay, yes. Maybe one."
   13:05

   Analysis: Zelenskyy's response is both a direct refusal and a symbolic statement of his commitment to Ukraine's cause, rejecting the notion that appearances should overshadow the gravity of the ongoing conflict.

4. Martha Calneck's Reprimand:

   "You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people. You’re gambling with World War Three."
   21:03

   Analysis: Calneck reinforces the high stakes involved, emphasizing the potential catastrophic consequences of the leaders' disagreements on a global scale.

5. Zelenskyy's Plea:

   "From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone and we are thankful. I said thanks."
   21:59

   Analysis: Despite the confrontation, Zelenskyy reaffirms his gratitude towards international support, juxtaposing it with the perceived disrespect from Trump and Vance.

---

Possible Implications

The confrontation between Trump and Zelenskyy has several potential repercussions:

1. U.S.-Ukraine Relations: The public nature of the dispute may strain diplomatic ties, potentially leading to reduced U.S. support for Ukraine in a critical time.

2. Global Geopolitics: Allies observing this exchange may reassess their commitment and support strategies towards Ukraine, fearing similar public disputes.

3. Trump's Political Influence: This incident could further polarize opinions about Trump, either solidifying his support base or alienating allies and undecided voters concerned about diplomatic decorum.

4. Ukraine's Diplomatic Position: Zelenskyy's unwavering stance may garner international sympathy and increased support, positioning him as a steadfast leader resisting undue pressure.

---

Conclusion

Yalda Hakim and Richard Engel effectively dissect the volatile exchange between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, highlighting the fragility of diplomatic relations amidst personal confrontations. The episode underscores the delicate balance required in international politics, where personal disputes can have far-reaching consequences. As the situation unfolds, the hosts anticipate significant developments, urging listeners to stay informed through ongoing analyses.

---

For a comprehensive understanding, listeners are encouraged to access the full unedited exchange at the end of the podcast episode.

---

Notable Moments and Timing

• Trump's Initial Accusation:
  "You are gambling with World War Three."
  05:38

• Vance's Critique of Zelenskyy's Attire:
  "Why don't you wear a suit? You're the highest. Why don't you wear a suit?"
  12:42

• Zelenskyy's Defiant Response:
  "I will wear costume after this war will finish."
  13:05

• Calneck's Emphasis on High Stakes:
  "You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three."
  21:03

---

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a critical examination of a momentary yet significant lapse in diplomatic protocol, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the interplay between personal dynamics and international relations. Hakim and Engel's analysis provides valuable insights into the complexities of leadership under pressure and the profound impact such encounters can have on global affairs.

---

Note: The timestamps referenced correspond to specific points within the provided transcript, ensuring accurate attribution of quotes and facilitating deeper exploration of the discussed events.

Transcript

[James Matthews]

Donald Trump is heading back to the White House.

[Martha Calneck]

Together, we can truly make America great again.

[Mark Stone]

We are in for an unpredictable but fascinating four years and we're going to.

[James Matthews]

Be following every twist and turn for the first 100 days. We'll be bringing you the latest updates and analysis first thing every morning. So join me, James Matthews, me, Martha.

[Mark Stone]

Calnick and me, Mark Stone for Trump.

[James Matthews]

100 every weekday at 6:00am Wherever you get your podcast, you're gambling with the.

[Martha Calneck]

Lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three. You're gambling with World War Three.

[Yalda Hakim]

Hello, I'm Yalda Hakim and I am in London and we're recording this emergency podcast just sort of half an hour or so after this extraordinary what turned into a heated argument between President Zelenskyy and President Trump. And Richard, you're here with me too, of course, so that we can dissect this and talk about what just happened.

[Mark Stone]

Yes. So I'm Richard Engel. Welcome, everyone, to this quick turnaround podcast of the world. Yalda. I have never seen anything like it. I think we should get right into this what just happened.

[Yalda Hakim]

And of course, follow us wherever you get your podcasts on Apple or Spotify and write to us, tell us all of your thoughts, any questions you may have.

[Mark Stone]

There's going to be a lot of those questions coming in.

[Yalda Hakim]

Absolutely. At the usual place, the worldky.uk Richard, let's get started.

[Mark Stone]

Yalda, tell us what just happened. You've been on air, I've been on air. I just got back from Ukraine. For those people out there listening who didn't, didn't catch it live, bring us up to speed quickly and then we'll. And then let's get into it.

[Yalda Hakim]

I mean, Richard, this was a much anticipated trip for President Zelensky. Don't forget, two weeks ago, Donald Trump described him as a dictator for not going to the polls, said his approval rating was at 4%. So all eyes were on this trip, this minerals deal that they were going to sign. The pens were ready, the table was ready, the cameras were there. Lunch, I believe there was chicken and salad and cream brulee was set out for them.

[Mark Stone]

You got a menu already? You had a readout of a menu.

[Yalda Hakim]

I heard what was going to be on the menu. I mean, they haven't been fed, by the way, Richard, they've left because, of course, this argument.

[Mark Stone]

He was thrown out. He said that he was thrown out, Humiliated. I've never seen anything like that. But go on. So the menu was ready, the pens were ready, they were gonna do this deal, they were gonna have a lunch.

[Yalda Hakim]

But about 40 minutes or so into this discussion at the Oval Office, the press was there. Things just broke down. And when you look at their faces, when you're watching this actual event unfold, both men, it's almost like you can see them seething, the steam coming out of their ears. They just got into such a heated argument that went on and on and on. And as you say, we haven't seen anything like it.

[Mark Stone]

We're going to play the entire thing at the end, so we're going to discuss this for a while. We're going to play a few clips so people can follow along. But for those who want to hear unedited, unfiltered, without our commentary, just here it is. You can find it at the end. But why don't we play a little bit right now? I just got home. I'm at home now. I just left Ukraine. And people thought, okay, this deal was going to happen. It was going to get signed today, and it was looking like a relatively good moment for Ukraine that they were trying to make lemonade out of lemons. Right. They were trying to play a weak hand fairly well, as you said. Exactly. President Zelensky, who initially proposed doing this mineral deal.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah, we talked about it last week.

[Mark Stone]

Yeah, it was his idea. He wanted to do this in order to foster this relations. He just didn't want a huge bill. You know, he said, oh, let's do an economic partnership. Trump came out back with him with a $500 billion bill and no promises of security guarantees.

[Yalda Hakim]

So they were supposed to sign this.

[Mark Stone]

Thing, and they were gonna sign it, and they were gonna sign it. And Europe was saying, we'll do the security guarantees. And they were at the Oval Office. And the way Trump is doing it now is he'll bring in people to the Oval Office. Then they have initially what's called the spray, where the cameras are let in high, you know, fast clicks. And then they usually. Traditionally, in a spray, you take, like, one question, two questions, but it's kind of ritualized. Then they were to go off and, you know, have their creme brulee, and then come back and sign this deal and have a presence and have a press conference. That was the plan. But during the spray, it all went off the rails. And it was started by Vance saying, you better just be silent and be thankful for what you're getting.

[Yalda Hakim]

And, yeah, let's have a listen. Because, as you say, J.D. vance, the vice president, baited him, and he took the bait but let's have a listen.

[Richard Engel]

Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No. In this entire meeting, have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the oppos opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

[Yalda Hakim]

Richard. Okay. For me, it's sort of the three things that stood out. And I've sort of written a note here. Donald Trump saying to Volodymy Zelensky, you are gambling with World War Three.

[Mark Stone]

Yeah, I'm not playing cards. Yes, you are playing cards.

[Yalda Hakim]

You have to be thankful. Your comments were very disrespectful. I mean it. And Volodymy Zelensky was not backing down.

[Mark Stone]

Trump is going to be. And the sort of Trump machine is going to be beating up on Zelensky, I expect. Enemy personal insults against Zelensky, making fun of his height. He's now going to be like little unappreciative Zelensky because, you know, Trump sort of likes to make these analogies about people's or insults about people's physical appearance. It was tough to watch. But as you said, Zelensky didn't back down, and he's now the only world leader, and we've been talking about this a lot over the last several months, who has done anything close to this. Macron sat there not long ago, smiled and said, yes.

[Yalda Hakim]

Charmed him.

[Mark Stone]

Charmed him. Macron was complimented for the beauty of his French. And Trump was like, wow, that was a beautiful, you know, display of the French language. They seem to be getting along very well this time. President Zelensky got there and was saying, hey, yes, we're going to send this deal, but we still need security guarantees. But we still need security guarantees. And J.D. vance basically said, sit down, shut up.

[Yalda Hakim]

And say thank you.

[Mark Stone]

Your job is to sit there, sign and say thank you. And Zelensky was like, whoa, what are you doing? Like this? Why are you talking to me like this? We need security guarantees. We don't trust Russia. And then Trump, watching this argument, came in on his vice president's side and doubled down and he had to sing his voice.

[Yalda Hakim]

And he's.

[Mark Stone]

Yeah. Defended him. And then, of course, Trump has to win the argument. He has to end it. And it ended badly. And it's not over here.

[Yalda Hakim]

No. But drama and theatrics aside, Richard, you know, let's just dissect what the worst case scenarios here could be. Okay, Worst case scenario, the United States pulls back its support from Ukraine. The other Scenario is Zelenskyy steps down and resigns. And you know what he thinks, well, I'm gonna go down, you know, in a respectful way. I go in, I face this guy. I didn't kiss the ring, I didn't suck up to him, I didn't do what the others did. I stood up for my country. And now I'm stepping down because that's going to be part of the sort of deal.

[Mark Stone]

The only question I have is, was this spontaneous or was he deliberately set up? So he went in there, everybody knew, as you said, that he was coming, that he was going to sign the deal, and then suddenly Vance is there instigating him. And was this just Vance sort of starting an argument and then the argument escalating and then Trump weighing in and then the situation breaking down. Was this a big personalities in a room or was there more to it? Was this deliberately done? Did Vance come in with this plan? I don't know. And I, at this stage, I don't know. But there's a lot of water under these bridge. Because you listen to Vance. He was talking about things that have nothing to do with Ukraine. He said you were here, not only unappreciative. Yeah, you were here campaigning for the opposition, you were here campaigning for the Democrats, stirring the pot. You're a traitor. You're not with us. You should be here saying, thank you, shut up, sign and get out of the building. That was Vance's position at the beginning. And then Trump kept saying, putin has gone through a lot. And Putin and I went through Russia gate together and we did you a big favor. You guys have been brave, but you only would have been brave because you had American guns in your hands, et cetera. So disrespectful to all the soldiers from Ukraine who really have been brave. So the question that I have is, was he deliberately set up or was this just something that fell apart?

[Yalda Hakim]

Let's think about Donald Trump, right? I mean, when you think about the world leaders who have gone to see him this week, the French president, the British Prime Minister, they've all tried to understand the Trump mindset that his grand strategy is ego. There's narcissism there and there's ego there. And we've talked about this a lot in terms of the position that Donald Trump takes. So, you know, yesterday we saw the British Prime Minister unveiled this turned up bearing gifts, this letter from the King, this very special historic letter that meant he would go for a second rare estate visit. Right. Emmanuel Macron showed up, you know, the bromance was on again, is how everyone described it. Keir Starmer, they sort of called him, you know, charmer Starmer. And I.

[Mark Stone]

Charmer Starmer.

[Yalda Hakim]

And I think, I think Volodymyr Zelensky, you know, has always taken this kind of shopping list to European leaders. I need this weapon. I need that. And there have been moments where commentators have said, is he being a bit ungrateful? But no, no, no, we have to support him. And this was not going to work.

[Mark Stone]

That whole concept of gratefulness. The Ukrainians think, hey, we're the ones who need to be getting thanked here. We're the ones who are doing the fighting and the dying in order to keep Russia in a box and not, you know, sending troops over into Poland. So when, when Ukrainians hear grateful, they're like, what are you talking about? And, and I think that's the disconnect part of the disconnect. The Ukrainians are like, you should be grateful. Sure. You're spending, sending money to the, to Ukraine, although most of that money is going back to the United States because it's, you know, used to buy defense contracts and American weapons, a lot of them, which were sort of for older generation anyway. But the Ukrainians perspective is we are shouldering the new Cold War. We are shouldering the fight here. And instead of showing us appreciation, you're giving us a ridiculous bill and then you're publicly humiliating the leader and then basically sending him packing from the White House. Don't let the door hit you on the back on your way out.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah, there was no lunch, there was no signing, no creme brulee of any kind. I mean, we don't know. Let's see. I just think, you know, in this moment, there is no point in freaking out. And I think that, you know, calm heads should prevail in this moment, because who knows, let's wait and see how this drama, drama ends. But, you know, so many people have said we've seen nothing really like this. I mean, we know that allies, partners, frenemies, you know, adversaries, they argue when it comes to geopolitics behind closed doors, but it never happens in front of, right in front of the cameras, never in the Oval Office, never in this way.

[Mark Stone]

And more than that, I think it wasn't just an insight into the dirty world of politics as usual. This was insight to how sort of Trump is holding court. He brings someone, and if that person doesn't supplicate in front of him and do exactly what is expected of him, one of his hitmen, in this case, J.D. vance, went on the attack.

[Yalda Hakim]

There was an interesting moment, Richard, where one of the other, I don't know who it was, but yelled out, can I ask you a question to Volodymy Zelenskyy? And he said, yes. And he said, why don't you wear a suit? You've arrived here, you're showing disrespect. You know, you're head of state. Why don't you wear a suit?

[Martha Calneck]

Why don't you wear a suit? You're the highest. Why don't you wear a suit? You're at the highest level in this country's office and you refuse to wear a suit. Just want to see. Do you own a suit?

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Yeah.

[Martha Calneck]

Yes.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Problems.

[Martha Calneck]

A lot of Americans have problems with you not respecting the dignity of this office.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

I will wear costume after this war will finish. Okay, yes. Maybe one.

[Martha Calneck]

Maybe something like that.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Maybe something like yours. Yes. Maybe something better. I don't know. We will see. Maybe something cheaper than. Yeah. Thank you.

[Mark Stone]

And that's again, why I was wondering, is this all. Was this all spontaneous? Because he walked in and the immediate question, you're wearing a suit. It's disrespectful. This is a guy who has said he's going to wear a suit because this country's at war. And when the country's no longer at war, he'll take his suit off. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche that world leaders have done before in times of crisis. Right. So was it all set up? I don't know. Or it reveals this tension, this tension that's existed from. From the beginning. A lot of people who are in the Trump orbit think Ukraine is a losing battle, that Ukraine has, that Zelensky is the real instigator here. You read online a lot of the people who are backing Trump or the people who he's brought in have been following that line, that. Following kind of Putin's line that Zelenskyy's the problem, he's the aggressor, he's the unelected dictator. Not Putin, man.

[Yalda Hakim]

I mean, it's a lot. And Volodymyr Zelenskyy tried there to talk about the annexation of Crimea and the. That he's lost and, you know, the sacrifices of the families, it was just falling on deaf ears. And once he'd lost Donald Trump, in terms of, you know, the anger that came through, as you say, it was probably simmering under the surface for some time, because I think that Donald Trump views the Ukraine conflict as a Joe Biden thing.

[Mark Stone]

I'm cleaning up that guy's mess, and you should be thanking me for it.

[Yalda Hakim]

And I want to deal with someone that I respect, Vladimir Putin. And Zelensky even said, they don't think we're a country. They don't think we exist. They don't think we're real. But it was sort of falling on deaf ear. So we'll have to wait and see, Richard, how this pans out over the course of the next few days and.

[Mark Stone]

The next few weeks, as promised. The whole thing, at the end, you can hear it and make judgments for yourself. But the. You mentioned how Zelensky may have thought, okay, I'm gonna go down. I'm going down. I'm going down with pride. All right, I'm gonna try and. Or he was just incredibly brave, or he was incredibly stupid. I don't know. But maybe a combination of all of them.

[Yalda Hakim]

A combination of all of them, yeah.

[Mark Stone]

But to take on the Vice President of the United States, President Trump, who's a force of personality in the White House, in a language that is not your own, not your native language, that's tough.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah, it is. It was a kind of almost, you know, as you say, I feel like it's a combination of all of those things, because we're yet to see how this will unfold, and the Kremlin will be watching very closely.

[Mark Stone]

He's gonna have a good weekend. Vladimir Putin is. And now we'll leave you with the exchange.

[Martha Calneck]

Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say really terrible things about Putin and then say, hi, Vladimir, how are we doing on the deal? That doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin. I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America and for the good of the world, I'm aligned with the world, and I want to get this thing over with. You see the hatred he's got for Putin. It's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hatred. He's got tremendous hatred. And I understand. I understand that. But I can tell you the other side isn't exactly in love with, you know, him either. So it's not a question of alignment. I have to. I'm aligned with the world. I want to get the thing set. I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done. You want me to be tough. I could be tougher than Any human being you've ever seen, I'd be so tough. But you're never going to get a deal that way. So that's the way it goes. One more question.

[Richard Engel]

I will respond to this. So look, for four years in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin. And then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the President of the United States words mattered more than the President of the United States actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Can I ask you? Sure, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump and God bless. Now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the contact. 2015, 2014.

[Richard Engel]

2014.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Yeah, so I was not here. Yeah, but. Yes, but during 2014 till 2022, was the situation the same that people have been dying on the contact line? Nobody stopped him. You know that. We had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him. Me like a new president in 2019. I signed with him the deal. I signed with him. Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire, ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him with gas contract. Gas contract, yes. But after that he broke this ceasefire. He killed our people. And he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, jd, you are speaking about? What do you mean?

[Richard Engel]

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Yes, but if you.

[Richard Engel]

Mr. President. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office, try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring it into this conflict.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

[Richard Engel]

I have been to come once. I have actually. I've actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people. You bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr. President, do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless.

[Martha Calneck]

You don't know that.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

God bless.

[Martha Calneck]

Blessed.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

God bless you.

[Martha Calneck]

Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

I'm not telling you because you're in.

[Martha Calneck]

No position to dictate that.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Remember this.

[Martha Calneck]

You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

You will feel influenced.

[Martha Calneck]

You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it from the very.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Beginning of the war.

[Martha Calneck]

You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now with us. You start having cards right now, you.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Don'T know you're playing cards.

[Martha Calneck]

You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three. You're gambling with World War Three. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. That's back to you. Far more than a lot of people said they should have.

[Richard Engel]

Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No. In this entire meeting. Have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you.

[Martha Calneck]

He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Can I help you? Wait a minute.

[Martha Calneck]

No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

I know.

[Martha Calneck]

You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us, Mr.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone and we are thankful. I said thanks.

[Martha Calneck]

You haven't been alone in this cabinet. We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment and your men are brave, but they had to use our military. What about if you didn't have our military equipment?

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

You invited me.

[Martha Calneck]

You didn't have our military equipment. This war would have been over in two weeks.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something maybe less in two weeks. Of course, yes.

[Martha Calneck]

It's going to be a very hard thing to do, business like this, I tell you.

[Richard Engel]

Say thank you.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

I said a lot of excitement, except.

[Richard Engel]

That there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media. When you're wrong, we know that you're wrong.

[Martha Calneck]

But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there. You're buried. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Listen, don't play.

[Martha Calneck]

You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. Then you. Then you tell us, I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go and I wanted this. Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying. And you meant stuff getting killed.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Of course we want to stop the war.

[Martha Calneck]

But you're saying you don't want to see. I said to you, I want to see.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Was there any.

[Martha Calneck]

Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than a degree.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think.

[Martha Calneck]

That was for you. That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person. That was your. That was with Obama.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

It was your president.

[Martha Calneck]

Excuse me. That was with Obama. Who gave you sheets. And I gave you javelins.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Yes.

[Martha Calneck]

I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins. You got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards.

[Yalda Hakim]

One more question, Mr. Vice President.

[Mark Stone]

I'm sorry.

[Martha Calneck]

It's going to be a tough deal to make because the attitudes have to change.

[Yalda Hakim]

What if Russia breaks ceasefire? What if Russia breaks these talks? What do you do Then I understand that it's a heated conversation right now.

[Martha Calneck]

What are you saying?

[Richard Engel]

She's asking, what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?

[Martha Calneck]

What if they. What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now? Okay, what if they broke it? I don't know. They broke it with Biden because Biden, they didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. You ever hear of that deal? That was a phony. That was a phony. Hunter Biden, Joe Biden scam, Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff. It was a Democrat scam, and he had to go through that. And he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war, and he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom. It was disgusting. And then they said, oh, oh, the laptop from hell was made by Russia, the 51 agents. The whole thing was a scam. And he had to put up with that. He was being accused of all that stuff. All I can say is he might have broken deals with Obama and Bush and he might have broken them with Biden. He did. Maybe. Maybe he did. I don't know what happened, but he didn't break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don't know if you can make a deal. The problem is I've empowered you to be a tough guy, and I don't think you'd be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very brave. But you're either going to make a deal or we're out. And if we're out, you'll fight it out. I don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll fight it out. But you don't have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position, but you're not acting at all thankful. And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest. That's not a nice thing. All right, I think we've seen enough. What do you think this is? This is going to be great television, I will say that.

[Mark Stone]

Yalda. I've never heard anything like it. Humiliating for Zelensky, humiliating for Ukraine. And frankly, I think allies are going to be watching this exchange and wondering, am I going to be in that position next. Whatever happens, if you need something from the United States, you're going to get called to the mat, talked over, and then kicked out without any lunch or dessert.

[Yalda Hakim]

Well, Emmanuel Macron has already responded to this and he has said we need to support Ukraine. We have, you know, basically saying we have no regrets for supporting Ukraine over the course of the last three years. We did the right thing to sanction Russia. They were attacked. Russia is the aggressor. And we need to continue to support Volodymyr. Volodymyr Zelensky. He worked really hard to try and charm Trump this last week, and I feel like it's all just blown up in all of their faces. But, yeah, we'll have to wait and see how the next week pans out.

[Mark Stone]

Yelda, great to see you and we'll keep this conversation going again. Thanks to everyone. Keep subscribing, keep liking, keep listening, watching, doing everything, and tell your friends.

[Yalda Hakim]

Richard, really good to see you. As you say, you've just come out of Ukraine. I sort of wish you were back in Ukraine quite quickly to get the pulse of the place. And thank you, thank you to all of our listeners for listening to this emergency podcast.

[James Matthews]

Donald Trump is heading back to the White House.

[Martha Calneck]

Together we can truly make America great again.

[Mark Stone]

We are in for an unpredictable but fascinating in four years.

[James Matthews]

And we're going to be following every twist and turn for the first 100 days. We'll be bringing you the latest updates and analysis first thing every morning. So join me, James Matthews, me, Martha.

[Mark Stone]

Calneck, and me, Mark Stone for Trump.

[James Matthews]

100 every weekday at 6am wherever you get your podcast.