← The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Has China humiliated Trump?
00:42:38
Has Vladimir Putin traded Donald Trump for Xi Jinping? Yalda and Richard are back from their summer break and unpack the summit in Beijing. The leaders of Russia, India and North Korea are all there - but what is going on? And what will President...
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Foreign.
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Hello, it's me, Yalda, and I'm in London.
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And me, Richard Engel, and I'm in Israel. And welcome back to the World Podcast.
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B
That meeting between Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, very, very important and really notable just for the excessive warmth and affection. Here in the dead of night, people dig through the rubble with their bare hands. The earthquake had struck and their loved ones were missing.
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We refuse to take part in Netanyahu's illegal war, and we see it as a patriotic duty to refuse and to demand accountability from our leaders. It is great to see you, Yalda. We took a break, and I'm so happy that we're back together and back on air. So, Yalda, where have you been?
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B
So it's so rare in our business, Richard, and the kind of work that you and I do to be able to get some proper time off. And I remember at the end of July, when we recorded our last podcast episode, you know, we both talked about feeling under the weather, feeling tired, like we were hitting a brick wall, like we both needed a break of some sort.
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A
I actually was sick. I'll tell you what I had. I had Lyme disease.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Have you seen that episode of Curb youb Enthusiasm where they explain what Lyme disease is?
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Lyme disease is really bad. I got that show. I was like, God, I feel lousy. Remember, I was sort of sweating. I didn't feel so good. I thought I had a flu. And I went to a doctor and I said, I'm feeling this way and look at this rash. And I was like, immediately, you have Lyme disease. So I had to take antibiotics for about three weeks and killed. It feel great. No lingering effects, but that's what that was.
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B
Oh, God.
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But aside from that, I'm feeling. I'm a little better. So how was your summer?
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Really nice. Really nice. Had some time off, spent some time in the sun, just, you know, hibernating and just trying to get ready for what I know will be an incredibly busy period. And there's been no shortage of news stories to cover, you know, from Donald Trump and Putin's meeting rendezvous in Alaska to President Zelensky and all the Europeans turning up at the White House, and, of course, the ongoing situation in Gaza. There is so much to talk about.
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A
One of the reasons that I'm back in Jerusalem right now is the Israeli military. The Israeli government are planning a major offensive against Gaza City. The government is calling up reservists, calling up 60,000 reservists and preparing for a major push into the city. But what's different this time is that a growing number of Israelis are speaking out. A growing number of Israeli reservists are saying they don't want to fight in this war anymore. They want the war to end. And that is a significant shift. It's something we've talked about a lot and it's something that I'm seeing right now. And he'll talk about more of that in this episode.
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B
Yeah, I'm really interested to hear what you found on the ground speaking to people there about that issue. And Richard, we also should get stuck into this huge economic conference summit that the leader of China is hosting.
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Xi Jinping, isn't that amazing?
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And he has all of his favorite friends, partners, allies in Beijing for this massive military parade that they are going to be putting on. It's, they've been there for the last few days. Vladimir Putin is there. Kim Jong Un of North Korea is going to be there. And surprise visit after seven years. The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is also in China. So extraordinary coming together of these leaders. And the big question, Richard, is what sort of message are they sending to the west and, and to Donald Trump?
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A
I think it's like the Beijing Olympics. You know how the Beijing Olympics were a coming out moment for China for President Xi, a showcase when they were showcasing China's arrival as a global superpower to the world. So we're gonna talk about that. And of course, you've done some reporting and you're doing some reporting about this tragic earthquake in Afghanistan. And you point out, and I hadn't thought about it until I saw you wrote something about it, that women in particular are suffering there because the Taliban is the government, but the Taliban won't deal with women. So I hadn't thought about that, that since they can't really touch women and they don't hire women and they don't have any female firefighters or rescue workers, that the women are not being rescued and not being treated and not being helped. It's just when you mix ideology into a natural disaster, it seems like you can only have a calamity. So we'll talk about that too.
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Yeah, absolutely. As you say, a horrendous situation. And I am a little bit out of practice. But follow us wherever you get your podcasts, whether that's on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple, and send us your thoughts. We're back now and we'd love to hear from you, your questions, your thoughts at the usual place, the worldatsky.uk and.
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With that, let's begin.
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Okay, Richard, so you're in Jerusalem. You have been talking a little bit about, you know, the Israelis, talking about the soul of their nation, what the last two years has done to them, how the reservists feel. Reports coming out now that many reservists don't see the point of this ongoing conflict, which they describe as pointless. So much loss of life and, you know, yet it's taking a new turn. Twist and phase. Talk us through what you found and heard on the ground.
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So I've been speaking to reservists all day. They held a small press conference today.
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B
Small.
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There were probably 20, 30 people there, maximum. So it was a small group. And they said that only about 350 reservists that they are aware of have joined this particular petition, if you will, to not serve in Gaza during this Gaza campaign. They're saying we're not gonna do it, which is crime here. They could face punishment. But I've also been speaking to people who weren't at that press conference, who aren't part of that particular movement, who I just talked to and reached out to and other contexts that I have. And I'm hearing the same kind of sentiment that there is a growing movement in Israel among not just reservists but among the population at large that believe the war is now doing more harm than it is good. More harm, certainly to Palestinians, but more harm. And this is what's new because it's been doing harm to Palestinians from the beginning, but it's been doing that. A growing number of Israelis believe that it is harmful doing more harm to Israeli citizens and doing more harm to the name of the Jewish people and the reputation of Jews around the world. And that is something we've talked about a lot, that things would only change when the kind of Jewish community decided this is bad for us, we don't want this on our conscience. I spoke the other day to a. And I think, let's just start right with this clip. I spoke the other day with a young man and he has ultimate credibility to speak about this. Not only was he here on October 7, family members of of his were taken hostage. A cousin of of his was killed, executed by Hamas. She was in that group of hostages and they were all shot at point blank range in a tunnel near Rafah. And let's just hear it so you can hear directly from the horse's mouth, from someone who has earned, I would say, the right to say what he's about to say. Why do you think most Israelis now want to end this war? I think now want to end the war.
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I think most of the Israelis want to end this war now mainly because there's nothing more to do in Gaza militarily because it's just a wasteland. Yeah. And most of the Israelis don't see the horrible pictures of what's going on in Gaza, but we started seeing what the world is saying and how the world is reacting to this. And people are starting to realize the moral price of this war going on forever and ever and ever.
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The moral price for Israelis, the moral price for Jews.
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The moral price for Jews. The. Exactly as being. I'm a third generation of the Holocaust. My grandmother and grandfather were Holocaust survivors. To think these kind of horrible images are being just a few kilometers away and it's my military fighting this war, and it's my own people still there, the hostages. It's unbelievable. And we can't keep this going.
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B
It's extraordinary, isn't it, when you hear Israelis and coming out. Not just those images that we're seeing of protests in Tel Aviv, where thousands of people are coming out onto the streets. It's almost like we've gone back to October 6, 2023, when people were out on the streets protesting against Benjamin Netanyahu. Now they're saying, we want this war to end. Prominent Israelis like the historian Yuval Noah Harari coming out and saying, what are we doing? What is the point of this is impacting not just how we're viewed, but it's impacting who we are as a nation, the point of who we are. And let's not just forget. Let's take a moment, Richard, to remember how Israel was conceived and how it became to be a State in 1948, off the back of the United Nations Geneva Convention, where, you know, the whole premise of Israel as a state was focused on certain values and what it was going to and try and be as a democracy. And yet today, you know, it's being accused of crimes against humanity, it's being accused of genocide, it's being accused of war crimes. And the big question is the world has been speaking up, but is the government of Israel listening? And now Israelis are coming out and speaking up because it's on their doorstep. It's just a few kilometers away. And as you know, you were saying, and we were hearing in that interview, they don't necessarily see the images that we're seeing, but they're seeing how the world is responding to those images coming out of Gaza.
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I'm having Conversations like these with many Israelis these days, which you didn't have in the beginning. And I kind of get that right after October 7th, this Hamas massacre, the Israelis were scared, they were angry, they wanted vengeance. Everyone signed up for the military and everyone wanted to volunteer or donate blood or help in some capacity. In the first days, they still had to get the Hamas fighters, terrorists, off of their territory. Fine. But two years have passed and you talked about accusations of genocide. Just a few days ago, 500 of the world's leading scholars on genocide, 86% of them said that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide by Israel, including Israeli scholars.
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And yet the belief overwhelmingly has been, and increasingly, you know, people feel quite strongly about this, that Benjamin Netanyahu continues in this way for his own political survival, because an election could be called. And, you know, I'm hearing from many Israelis who say, if Benjamin Netanyahu is reelected, we're not staying in this country. We are also now increasingly seeing, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu's strongest and closest ally, Donald Trump, with his designs over Gaza, plans for the, you know, Riviera man, Riviera of the Middle east, meetings with Tony Blair, meeting his son in law, Jared Kushner, to plan for the day after. And many people, including Israelis, are saying, what day after? Let's deal with the day today. You know, it is extraordinary when we hear about these leaked documents, leaked papers, leaked plans of, of meetings being held where Palestinians don't have a say about their future, their sovereignty, their state. There is no discussion of a two state solution, despite a number of European countries, Western countries coming out and saying, we want to recognize, if you don't change course, Israel, we will recognize a Palestinian state. And you and I have discussed that and criticized the concept of that without actually dealing with the conflict itself. But for leaked documents to come out where we're seeing and hearing that the Palestinians would be moved out and Donald Trump would, you know, set off on his plans for a Riviera in the Middle east and that the Palestinians would be given $5,000 and digital tokens to compensate them for their land is absurd and it is ethnic cleansing.
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So if you remember, Trump said that the US should own Gaza. Own. He's going to own it somehow. That it should be turned into a tech hub because Gaza is on the Mediterranean coast. It potentially could be incredibly valuable, you know, real estate, property. And he put, he forwarded or posted this AI generated video of the Riviera in Gaza, by the way, where there were no Palestinians living there. It was Just hotels and beach resorts and belly dancers. And Palestinians were devastatedly or tremendously offended by the video. And he said, this is what it could be. It could be, you know, let's turn it into a Riviera. It's going to be fabulous. Well, just a few days ago, the Washington Post reports that the there's been this meeting or there have been a number of meetings that the Trump administration has been studying a nearly 40 page document to carry out this Riviera plan in which Gaza would be owned by the US for 10 years. It would be an AI tech hub and a Riviera, you know, be developed into some sort of resort and tech center that the Palestinians would be moved out. All 2 million of them described, quote unquote as voluntary, but it sounded pretty mandatory when read about it and that they would be compensated with $5,000 cash and a digital token that only landowners will get digital tokens. So if you're just a Palestinian who live there and you live in an apartment or something like that, you get the five grand. But if you happen to own a farm or you own some sort of tract of land, you'll be compensated with that by some QR code that you could later redeem, like a bond that would give you a tiny piece of this investment scheme. That's the idea. Move all the Palestinians out, give some of them $5,000 and give some of them QR codes.
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B
And in the meantime, Richard, you know, I really want to highlight the killing of Palestinian journalists. That continues. The Committee to Protect journalists now says 189 Palestinian journalists have been killed by Israel in Gaza. And you know, we weren't on recording our podcast, but you know, we cannot sort of allow this conversation about journalists being killed not to be mentioned because in the last couple of weeks we saw a group of Palestinian journalists. First of all, one Gazan journalist was killed, an Al Jazeera journalist and a handful of their colleagues which we talked about. And then of course there was this instance incident at NASA Hospital, one of the last remaining hospitals in Gaza, which is providing life saving treatment to so many injured Palestinians. One of the journalists was killed there. And then of course, like you know, in the training that we get as journalists is when there is a bombing, don't rush to the scene straight away because there could be a double tap. And there was a double tap situation by the Israeli government where a bunch of other journalists went out and then they too were killed. And it wasn't clear who the Israelis were targeting. First they said it was a camera. They didn't say it was a Hamas operative, they said it was a Hamas camera. So you killed five journalists because of a Hamas camera that they believed was implanted outside of a hospital where medics, healthcare workers, civilians, journalists were functioning and working out of. I mean, absolutely, you know, extraordinary. And I do want to name some of these journalists because they shouldn't go nameless. 189 Palestinian journalists killed. And in this double tap instance, five of these journalists, Husam Al Masri, Mariam Abu Dhaga, Mohammed Salama Ahmed, Abu Aziz and Moaz Abu Taha. You know, a devastating situation where they're doing their work for people like you and I because we cannot go into Gaza. They worked for, because we're not allowed. Ap, Reuters, we're not allowed to go in unless it's an embed. And they're providing footage of the situation on the ground for major agencies and news networks around the world. And there was a moment of outrage. But, you know, I find it terrifying that we go off to do our jobs. And if you're killed in this way for doing your work, I remember these things would happen in places like Afghanistan and Iraq when the terrorists would launch major attacks, and you would be told, don't go into that area. You know, straight away it was Al.
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Qaeda that did double taps.
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And yet now we have a situation where the Israeli government does a double tap and can't explain why.
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So I've been speaking to some, some officials about this, about this investigation, trying to figure out what happened. So these journalists were on the roof of a building in the Nasser Hospital, and that's. There's not a lot of cell phone connections in Gaza. So they were up in this high place because it was a decent signal there. And it was just a place where journalists could go send their footage, relax a little bit. It was believed to be relatively safe. They had cameras up there, which is standard practice in a conflict. Those cameras that they have provide perhaps some of the only unfiltered view, actually the only unfiltered view of Gaza that anyone gets to see in the world, according to Israelis and people who've been briefing me, they believe that this camera or a camera that was there was a Hamas camera, that it was tracking the movements of Israeli soldiers and that they acted to destroy this camera. Camera. Now, why they needed to attack the place four times, why they couldn't have just called these journalists and said, take down the camera, why they couldn't have done a whole host of other things instead of bombing it, several. Bombing it and Waiting a few minutes and then bombing it again.
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And Richard, on Monday this week, there was a newsroom protest organized by Reporters Without Borders. And the Committee to Protect Journalists is part of this. And I just want to read you the statement that, that they put out. They said at the rate journalists are being killed in Gaza by the Israeli army, there will soon be no one left to keep you informed. We join with more than 150 other media outlets across the world to condemn these crimes. And we call on the Israeli authorities to allow independent access for the international press in the Gaza Strip. Richard, earlier you said that, you know, you talked about how Israeli media is reporting and discussing the situation in Gaza. Do you want to just give us a quick breakdown of what they're saying and then go to a break?
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A
Absolutely. So obviously the Israeli television, Israeli newspapers covered this conflict extensively. Every day you hear about it. But it is from a particular perspective that the Israelis are right, that they have no other choice, that they're destroying terrorists, that if the people, if the soldiers weren't in Gaza, there would be another Hamas style attack every single day. And by the way, Hamas plays into this because Hamas continues to say if we get another opportunity, we will do another October 7th. And we're so they feeding this narrative. And that's something that is important to realize. Hamas does keep saying if we get the chance, we're going to do it again. And if they keep saying that, and I believe they believe that, then it makes it really easy for the Israelis to say, well, then we have no choice but to keep going. And anything the people of Gaza or Gazans get, they deserve because look at what the Hamas leaders are saying. So they're focusing on that. And there's a lot of attention focused on the UN or focused on foreign media or focused on incidents in Europe where Israelis are harassed while on vacation at a beach or at a theme park. And there's a lot of focus on the world doesn't get us. Nobody understands us. If we don't do this, nobody else will protect us. We have no other choice. And look at Hamas. They keep saying if they are given half a chance, they're going to come and wipe us all out. So you hear that kind of message over and over and over and over again. That's sort of the general tone of the television coverage. But I think Israelis are now starting to look elsewhere. People are starting to look at the BBC or Sky or NBC or any of the different outlets because you do start to hear people who are challenging that narrative.
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B
And a US Envoy to the region Steve Witkoff says he expects this war to be over by the end of the year. I guess it's, you know, we'll believe it when we see it. We've heard so many times about ceasefires that never came about, about, but, you know, a really awful situation that, that continues. Richard. We're going to go to a break and when we come back, we're going to shift our focus to China and the so called access of upheaval.
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A
Welcome back to the world. So Yalda, let's get into it. This huge economic summit in China where President Xi Jinping has been inviting whoever he can, who's important and powerful and significant. And it has been, I think, from China's perspective, an enormous success. To have Putin there, to have Modi there, obviously Kim Jong Un and other leaders, but to get these big three, China, India, Russia, together in the same room, holding hands, expressing affection, I think it's a significant moment.
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B
Let's just go back to what this summit actually is, Richard, because the friends, partners, allies of China have come together, 26 heads of state, for this huge military parade that China is hosting to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the end of the Second World War. It's hugely significant because of the optics and what it represents. The summit itself is called the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. It came together in 1996 and it, and it basically pulls together 43% of the global population and major economic, military and political powers. And to me, it appears that China has pulled off the reverse Kissinger to be able to lure India, a strategic partner of the United States, a relationship that they have worked on for two decades because frankly, to counter China, the United States said we need to build our relationship with, you know, this, the largest democracy on the planet in the region, India. Now, what we've seen as a result of 50% tariffs being slapped on the Indians because Donald Trump has decided to single them out and say, you're buying Russian oil, we're gonna slap you with these tariffs as a form of punishment. And what China has, has said, you know what? You need to come to us. The dragon and the elephant, we are allies, we are partners, let's work together.
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This could go so badly for the United States.
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B
Yes, it really is. So we can come together and we can form strong military and economic partnerships. Indians have always said to me, the United States isn't our ally, they are our strategic partner. They don't like to jump into bed with people, but they built this relationship with the United States and Donald Trump over the course of the last six months has frankly trashed that relationship, humiliated the Indians, who are very, very proud and view themselves as a superpower in the region. And the Indians are now saying to the United States, we have other options.
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A
China is now clearly the dominant power vis a vis Russia. And now China is welcoming in India as well. So if you compare. And it took years for the US to establish itself where, where it was at the top of the sort of the heap and with alliance systems and economic systems, and it seems like it's, I don't want to say pissing it all away, but kind of pissing it. He's pissing it all away. And that's how empires end. That's how you end your, your, your, your civilization. So this is, this is big stuff. I don't think this is just the optics of a moment and the red carpet and who got to ride in the presidential limo and who got not, you know, a longer handshake or a bear hug. These, these are big shifts in, in global politics that, that matter. And as you said, that India doesn't take lightly.
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B
Absolutely. And already we've heard statements from the leader of China, you know, making veiled comments about the United States describing, you know, them as having bullying behavior. I interviewed a, a Chinese sort of, of, they put up these, these professors as spokespeople. And he, I said, you know, was this kind of a veiled attack at the United States? And Donald Trump, he said, oh, it wasn't veiled. We were talking about the United States. It's the bullying behavior of the United States. And, you know, they need to back off. And this military parade will be the biggest military parade in history where the Chinese will showcase their latest nuclear weapons, their warheads, the kind of artillery and tanks and weapons, you know, to, to show the United States that if there is an attempt, we have this rivalry, but if there is an attempt at kind of, you know, trying to come to the defense of Taiwan, for example, if we try and reclaim Taiwan or.
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Something else, this is bad for Taiwan. Taiwan must be watching this with great concern.
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B
And you've been to Taiwan multiple times, and you've been on those drills. I mean, the Taiwanese would now be sitting there and really incredibly concerned about the images they're seeing come out of Beijing and the fact that they're looking at, at an administration that's unpredictable, that's pushing their partners into the arms of Xi Jinping. And frankly, one person said to me yesterday, Donald Trump would not be looking at those images of those leaders meeting in Beijing with concern he'd be more upset that he wasn't invited.
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A
Absolutely. And wasn't there, wasn't the center. Not just wasn't invited, wasn't the center of attention. It reminds me, and I think it will go down in history, as one of those moments where China came out to the world and showed itself. And it was a proud moment for China. I was in Beijing in 2008 for the Olympics, and NBC covers the Olympics for the United States, and they pay a great deal of money for it to be the American broadcaster. So I go to a lot of Olympic Games. I was in Paris, I was in Beijing, I've been to Athens. I go to a lot of them. So I was in the Bird's Nest Stadium, and I was able to watch the rehearsals of the Chinese Olympic opening ceremony. They had these huge drums and there were thousands of reporters and they were doing this enormous, powerful opening ceremony. And some people compared it to like a, like a war cry. It was, it wasn't just a sort of a glossy, cute kind of overview of the country's history like so many Olympic opening ceremonies are. This one was big and bold and strong and even a little bit frightening. It was an announcement for China to say, we're here, we're back. China may have been isolated for hundreds of years, and that was sort of bit of tendency for China. You know, it would rise and then it would isolate, and then it would rise and isolate. We are out, we are strong, we are proud. Look at us now. And I think this summit and this military parade and this grouping in, in China right now is going to. Has a similar effect, is a similar moment.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. And we'll have to keep an eye on, you know, how things unfold and the optics of this and how it's received by the United States and, and, and namely Donald Trump. Richard, before we move on, I really, really want to highlight the situation in Afghanistan. Another devastating natural disaster, an earthquake that struck the, the nation a couple of days ago in the east of the country. This is one of the most remote parts of the country, one of the most conservative parts of the country. Tough terrain. There was flooding there a few days before the earthquake. There are landslides. Rescue workers are now trying to get to the people who need rescuing with helicopters because there's no other way to get there. It's 1400 people killed, already over three and a half thousand people injured. And as I've been reporting, women and girls the most affected because of the Taliban restrictions and ban.
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A
So tell me more about that Because I read it from and, and it's one of these things, when you think about it, you're like, of course, it's such a misogynistic regime. They have a real issue with women. They don't want women to work, they don't want women to read and write or have anything beyond a primary school education. What impact did that have on the ongoing rescue efforts?
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B
Well, there are no female rescuers on the ground, for example, because women are banned from working for non governmental organizations. They are banned from operating within aid agencies and providing healthcare during these moments. And so in an already deeply conservative part of the country, which some people have described to me as, you know, being so cut off from the rest of the world and from any kind of, you know, assistance and sort of almost stuck in the 6th or 7th century, there is nothing there but mud brick homes that these people have built for themselves on the sides of mountains and thousands of homes have been destroyed. Women are being badly affected, girls are being badly affected because this happened in the dead of night, for example. The women and girls didn't come out because it's so such a conservative part of the country to seek help. So they waited till, till daybreak and some of them are trapped still in their homes under the rubble. We will see a spike in the death toll of women and girls in the next few days because they didn't emerge in time and they haven't been able to evacuate them. And then when they do get evacuated, they're at at a disadvantage in accessing life saving aid and medical help because there is no one there to support them.
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A
But why does it matter the gender of the rescue workers? Are the women being neglected because men don't want to touch them or go into a house and see a potential naked woman? Or how is this, how is this playing out in Afghanistan?
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B
Yeah, you know Afghanistan, you've reported from all of these parts of the country.
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A
Some of these places remote. I was in Kunar, one of the valleys, it looked like I half expected to see dinosaurs coming around the corner.
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B
And this is what I mean, like I said century. But even beyond that. And yes, the women don't want male rescuers barging into their homes. The families don't want the women exposed to the aid workers, the rescuers, the helicopters evacuating these people out. So already B, the area is conservative. On top of that, the Taliban restrictions and bans on international female aid workers being able to access these. So if you're not allowing male rescuers to get to the women, why not allow female rescuers who are willing to go there and to support these women and girls, they've put a ban on everyone.
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A
So male rescuers are not allowed to go into and handle the women. Even if it, even if they're bleeding and even if there's like a piece of wood or stone. But even if somebody's injured, a male rescuer can't say, okay, I'm gonna, you know, she's not my wife, but who cares? She's, she's being crushed by a wall.
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B
Male rescue workers, male aid workers, health workers, doctors are not allowed to. So this has left the women of Afghanistan in a conundrum. After the US Led invasion of the country, you know, maternal mortality rates in the country were some of the worst. After, you know, the international community engaged in afgh, it dropped dramatically. There is now concern that because women are no longer able to access midwives and hospitals and doctors and, you know, female medical students have been banned from getting degrees. So that has also been put an end to. Women are giving birth in some of the most horrific circumstances at home and dying from things that they could survive. And so in the same way, when a natural disaster happens, they don't have access to things that the men do and that the boys do. And so the images you're seeing right now on our TV screens, you know, of the coverage that we are seeing are just of boys and men and people are saying, well, where are the women? Well, the women are being crumbled and left behind.
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A
In terms of prediction, I think we're, we're going to see this Gaza City offensive ramping up because they're talking about it like they talked about Rafah and Rafa is a city in southern Gaza. And the Israelis went in, they gave notice to clear it out. They said, we're going to clear out the city. And it was totally, totally flattened. I've been to Rafah, there's nothing left of it. And I think Gaza City is probably going to face a similar fate. It's just going to be flattened.
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B
Well, no doubt over the course of the next few weeks, Richard, we're going to continue to talk about the situation, the devastation in Gaza. In terms of my prediction, I'm tracking and watching the situation in France very closely. There is going to be a vote of no confidence, which we believe will mean that the prime minister of France will step down.
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A
So a new governmental shakeup, New prime.
- [37:41]
B
Minister, a new prime minister. But you know the French, they love a good demonstration. They love a great riot and a protest. So we are expecting protests on the streets of Paris. So next Monday is when parliament holds this vote of and that we believe the Prime Minister will be forced to step down. And then on Wednesday, we next Wednesday there are planned strikes. So, you know, travel will be impacted, movement of people in Paris and other. The cities will be impacted. Stores will probably be closed. I was in, in France yesterday and taxi drivers were saying to me, you know, we won't, we'll all be out on the streets, we won't be operating in the city.
- [38:24]
A
What, why, why, why, why is it all falling apart? Why changing of the Prime Minister? And since everyone knows Macron is a, you know, he is the, the sort of, the, the figurehead and the leader and the one who would sort of represents France at all the major summons. Does, does the changing of the Prime Minister a mean very much? And why are there going to be protests on every street corner, including the taxi driver that you had, by coincidence?
- [38:50]
B
So Richard Macron appoints these prime ministers and so it is a sort of blemish on his particular rule. There is a lot of anger and discontent within France at his domestic policies. They believe that the cost of living is through the roof. There's a debt crisis in the country. There are concerns about immigration, for example, There is concern about drugs in Marseille and gangs. So there is a lot of several social issues that people believe that his government hasn't managed to handle. President Macron is brilliant on the international front. He likes to present himself as the leader of Europe, someone who drums up European leaders and takes on, like Ukraine. He speaks up about the situation in Gaza, he goes to the White House and takes on Donald Trump. He presents himself as this sort of leader of Europe and a global leader. But domestically, there's a lot of frustration at how his government has executed things. That's why we saw the rise of the far right, led by Marine Le Pen in the country, for example. And Marine Le Pen has now been barred from, you know, standing and she's now disputing that in the courts. But this gift gives people the opportunity to come out onto the streets and say, well, this is now your sixth Prime Minister that's been pushed out that you've appointed. Could there be sixth?
- [40:20]
A
This would be the sixth Prime Minister.
- [40:22]
B
Prime Minister in the course of the last few years. So this really puts Macron at the forefront of this crisis that his country is facing now. Will that now the reason why it matters globally and domestically is because could it push President Macron to hold snap elections? He is a little bit Unpredictable and suddenly say, you know what? Let's hold presidential elections now. Let's call this, you know, wouldn't that.
- [40:49]
A
Be really risky for him?
- [40:51]
B
And so it would be risky. However, with Marine Le Pen caught up in the courts, you know, she is his main rival.
- [40:58]
A
Better now than later.
- [40:59]
B
She's caught up in the, in the courts. If in a year or so, you know, or closer to 2028, where there's predictions that he would hold the presidential election, she could reem and she could clear herself up as a rival again to him, and therefore that would be more risky. So there are those who are saying perhaps he needs to call an election now while she's caught up in all of this and he doesn't have a strong rival to win the election and to move on from the situation. So there is a number of risks here for France that if I'm there next week, would be fascinating to dissect and discuss with you.
- [41:34]
A
Well, I can't wait.
- [41:35]
B
We are expecting things to really flare up next Wednesday and travel to France, I think will be really difficult because there'll be strikes, you know, at airports, train stations, everywhere.
- [41:44]
A
So to get in, if you want to get into France on Wednesday, go Tuesday, go Tuesday.
- [41:48]
B
Or, you know, we could see that they might get excited and hold the protests on Monday, but. Right.
- [41:54]
A
Maybe. Maybe go for the weekend. Give yourself some time, whatever it is.
- [41:58]
B
Exactly.
- [41:59]
A
Well, Yalda, I am so glad we're back. It's great to see you. Sorry, everyone, we were gone, but I hope you missed us. It's great to be back with all of you, you and until next week.
- [42:10]
B
Until next week. Thank you so much for, for listening and for following us wherever you get your podcasts. Richard, really good to see you. And we look forward to recording another podcast next week.