← The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Has Ukraine proved Trump wrong?
00:35:05
This week, Richard and Yalda talk about ‘Operation Spiderweb' - the Ukrainian drone attack that is being described by some analysts as 'Russia's Pearl Harbor'. How did Ukraine pull this unprecedented attack off? Where does this leave peace talks?...
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- [00:05]
Richard Engel
Someone who's literally got their body on.
- [00:07]
Martin Griffiths
Fire in Boulder, Colorado. It just defies belief.
- [00:12]
Yelda
Hello, this is the world. The situation is intolerable in Gaza and getting worse by the day. I'm Yelda and I'm currently in London.
- [00:26]
Richard Engel
The threat China poses is real. And it could be. We hope not, but it certainly could be. And I'm Richard Engel and I'm in Lisbon. Our Operation Spiderweb yesterday proved that Russia must feel what its losses mean. Your eye okay? What happened to your eye? I noticed there's a bruise there.
- [00:49]
Yelda
Yeah, no, I was just fussing around.
- [00:50]
Richard Engel
With Lex and I said, go ahead, punch me in the face. And he did. And what a week it has been.
- [01:05]
Yelda
We wanted to talk more about the challenges of reporting from Gaza, what's happening in Gaza. We'll be talking about that a little bit later and building a real picture of what's going on on the ground, what people are actually enduring on a daily basis, especially around this aid distribution at the moment.
- [01:25]
Richard Engel
And we'll be talking about Operation Spider's Web on this episode. That incredibly audacious Ukrainian drone inside Russia. How did Ukraine manage to pull it off?
- [01:37]
Yelda
And in that little sequence that you heard, Elon Musk has left the White House. I mean, he has said he has now the key, whatever that key was that Donald Trump gave him, which is probably an invitation to come back whenever he likes. But while he was at the press conference, you know, about 41 minutes in, someone asked him about the black eye that, that he had.
- [02:00]
Richard Engel
A lot of people said, oh, what a symbol. You know, he came and he left bruised and battered, but it so strange. And then he, you know, he said, well, it was my, you know, my son, little ex, who, who punched him in the face. Okay. We've all had, you know, Eldo, you have a five year old, I have a five year old. We all get injured. So I didn't find the fact that he got injured or says he got injured by his son unusual, but he says that he asked him to punch him in the face, that, that's true. You know, I, I got hit by Theo. He backed me, you know, he whacked me with his head right into my nose. But it was an accident, as far as I could tell. I didn't say, hey, come on, give me, do your best shot. Smack me right in the face.
- [02:37]
Yelda
What I found amusing was that Donald Trump turned around, looked at him and said, oh, I didn't notice that. But did X do that? Yeah, X would do that. Like he was quite Impressed by what.
- [02:48]
Richard Engel
This 5 year old had done by his physical prowess. Yeah, he's got enough power to leave you a shiner. But a very strange, very strange guy. A very strange episode. Apparently Trump says he's not leaving, but he is leaving and he's leaving with a shiner. That. There was a lot of speculation online. Did somebody punch him? Was it really the little kid? Who else did it?
- [03:11]
Yelda
I mean, frankly, he's got a lot of people who'd want to do that to him right now, whether it's the Tesla shareholders, whether it's even some Republicans. I mean, it has been 100 and I don't know how many days of this partnership. And so many people said the bromance wouldn't last. It appears that the bromance lasted, but I guess he didn't. Lost in the White House in that very powerful role.
- [03:38]
Richard Engel
But you know what's so strange, Musk seemed surprised to me that people didn't like him. You know, he was really. And you saw, did you see all those sort of exit interviews? And he was relatively humble for Elon Musk's perspective. And he was saying, you know, I just became the whipping boy and I didn't get it. And there's still a lot to do. And he didn't really like it and didn't like the feedback. This is a guy, as, you know, all these tech, tech, you know, titans, they come out and there's huge celebrations and they're on the stage and everyone's treating them like, like there's some sort of God or demigod. And he went into the White House and instead the Americans turned on him. But he was surprised by that. How could he be surprised when you have the world's richest man brought in on a mandate to fire lots of people who are making, I don't know, 50, $60,000 a year. How did he expect he was gonna be popular in that role?
- [04:33]
Yelda
We've spoken at length about the Tesla showrooms being set alight, people vandalizing cars, these Tesla cars that now have bumper stickers. I bought this before Elon, before I knew the truth about Elon or whatever these bumper stickers say. But he was an unelected official who had an incredible amount of power. And anyone you speak to would not dispute that bureaucracy in the United States is bloated and that perhaps they needed to be reformed. But he literally, rather than taking a scalpel and, you know, bringing about reform, he literally took a chainsaw to the bureaucracy and slashed and burnt it to the ground. And then didn't have a sort of a viable alternative to it. We saw that with all the USAID programs or all the people who were sent home, you know, and told, you're fired. Essentially Donald Trump liked his style, but did he ever really reach the $1 trillion saving that he said that he was going to make by doing this? No.
- [05:41]
Richard Engel
I thought that was interesting. People can be so rooted in their own perspective, so rooted in their own belief structure or their environment that they just don't see the other side anymore.
- [05:53]
Yelda
Just before we get started on Ukraine and Gaza, tell us your thoughts. I mean it might be what you think about Elon Musk's black eye or a silly reason why you might had a black eye for whatever reason. Send us your thoughts. Usual place, the worldky.uk and of course follow us wherever you get your podcasts, Apple or Spotify. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
- [06:27]
Richard Engel
So let's go on to Operation Spider's Web. This is that drone operation in Ukraine. It's been called audacious. President Zelensky said it was brilliant and, and for those who may have read about it or heard about it, it was a stunning intelligence driven operation. And the Ukrainians smuggled drones into Russia and then through means we'll talk about in a minute, simultaneously release them all. Release these swarms in five different locations in Russia, some of them incredibly far away from the Ukrainian border and had according to Ukrainians and Russian milit military analysts, these so called Russian military bloggers who are quite an influential group in, in Russia had enormous success attacking Russian aircraft while they were still on the tarmac, while they were still just waiting for future attacks. The Russians didn't see it coming. Some people described it as a Pearl harbor type of attack, a huge, a huge drone attack. I think it goes up there with the, the kind of attacks like when the Israelis use the pagers to attack hezbol. It's going to go down as one of the iconic, maybe historic drone attacks that the world has ever seen.
- [07:47]
Yelda
It's game changing and these bombers are significant for Russia. Billions of dollars worth of equipment exposed. Russia's vulnerability humiliated them. And as you say, these Russian bloggers and Russia itself has had to acknowledge the extent of the damage. And it's been described as audacious, but also I think gives us a preview into the future of modern warfare. And so you know, Western states, Western nations are having to look at what Ukraine did and learn lessons from it because you don't necessarily need to invest in legacy hardware. Sure, that's important to have the submarines, to have, you know, the fighter jets, to have the big war navy ships. But these drones have done an incredible amount of damage on Russian bombers that, that, you know, now has left Russia completely vulnerable and exposed.
- [08:45]
Richard Engel
So let's tell people a little more about how Ukraine did this and what exactly happened. So people always think of Ukraine a little bit like World War I, and there is some truth to that. And I've. I've used that description in my own stories in the past because there are trenches there, there's artilleries, there are landmines, there are soldiers who are sleeping out in the trenches. If you turn the pictures black and white, it would look like World War I. The only difference is, and it's a significant one, is every year that passes and this war is about three years in, it's increasingly a drone war. So imagine, you know, bunkers, trenches, trees that are all burned out, some villages scattered around, landmines in the area. That's on the Ukrainian side. So on the Russian front line, you have similar. You have trenches, you have bunkers, you have what are called dragon's teeth, these kind of jacks that put on the ground to prevent vehicles from rolling over them. So you have all of these kind of things on the ground. Artillery going back and forth, and then ahead of in the sky, drones going back and forth all the time. It sounds like some sort of swarm of deadly killer bees. That's what the front line looks like right now. You go out there and it's just everything is buzzing around. It's terrifying. And that's been the way that the drones primarily have been used in this war. They'd been an artillery replacement technology, but this was a totally different kind of attack. These drones didn't just go for an hour or half an hour and then try and dive bomb onto a Russian target or onto a Russian cannon or a mortar. They were smuggled inside Russia in a covert operation. They were put inside these. Have you seen the pictures? They look like almost like prefab houses on the back of trucks. Or like. Have you ever seen office parks? You know, when you. When they build office parks, the trucks build it, they bring in these little mobile housing units or they'll bring in toilets for the workers and things. So trucks carrying structures that look like that. And hidden in these structures were all these drones. And then according to Ukrainian intelligence, with a push of the buttons, the roofs came off of these structures and these drones just sort of lifted up and went onto their target in Siberia. So an extraordinary Intelligence operation, a use of drones in a way that we haven't seen before.
- [11:15]
Yelda
And I thought what was also quite significant was the fact that, you know, US Allies weren't informed. I mean, this is Ukraine driving this and, you know, showing that it has agility, the ability to, you know, think without necessarily having air superiority. You know, they've had to rely on Western equipment coming in, begging for Western equipment and support. And Ukraine has shown its willpower and its ability to be creative in these moments. So this is a hugely significant operation. And while it won't necessarily bring Russia to the negotiating table and force it, you know, to come and talk, because we saw, you know, this basically happened as there were peace talks taking place in Istanbul, in Turkey. It will, you know, put the Russians on notice that, you know, you are also fighting an enemy who is willing to come and try different tactics.
- [12:24]
Richard Engel
And Trump has said time and time again to. Zelensky, said it in sort of backhanded comments. Yeah, that the Ukrainians would be nowhere without American help. They'd be finished. That the Ukrainians should be clamoring for a deal. And maybe they should, or maybe they shouldn't. But the implication from Trump is they would be nowhere without us. They would be nowhere without American weapons. And that wasn't the case in this attack. These were Ukrainian drones, modified drones. I've been to these drone factories, and drone factories makes them sound more organized than they are. These drone frontline laboratories where Ukrainian engineers also. Engineer is a bit of a euphemism because these aren't trained engineers in many cases. Sometimes they're gamers. Sometimes they were good at fixing things. Sometimes they were just people who had an aptitude for technology. And they're modified, modifying farm drones. They're modifying these racing drones, these FPV drones that can go. Go incredibly fast at the kind of drones. I don't know if you've seen them. You have to wear goggles to drive them.
- [13:34]
Yelda
I've used them in a field in. On the outskirts of Kyiv.
- [13:38]
Richard Engel
You have.
- [13:38]
Yelda
It's hard to do. They had a display.
- [13:40]
Richard Engel
If you look to the left and right, you send the thing crashing into a wall. It's really. They're hard to do. You managed to fly one?
- [13:47]
Yelda
Well, they basically brought a display in this field on the outskirts of Kyiv and were showing journalists, you know, the sort of drones that they were looking at experimenting with. This was very early on in the war. And as you say, there were a bunch of basically gamers who were doing this at that time. It wasn't Necessarily for warfare, more so for intelligence gathering and kind of getting a sense of what was happening on the Russian side and what they were actually doing. But I think this sends a clear message to Western allies as well. When Ukraine keeps talking about using long range missiles deep into Russian territory, this is them also, also saying, we can do this. You give us the go ahead, which they've managed to get from some Western capitalists. Give us the go ahead, the green light to use your weapons deep into Russian territory. Which Biden was terrified of allowing Ukraine to do this because they were always saying, we don't want this war to come into NATO. If we allow you to use our weapons deep into Russian territory, then Russians will respond accordingly. So I think the big question now is what does Russia do?
- [14:58]
Richard Engel
Let's say Ukraine had launched these attacks with ballistic missiles, right? You'd need serious ballistic missiles to fire inside Russia at an air base all the way near the Chinese border. So imagine if there had been no drones. Let's say this conflict had happened, I don't know, five, six, ten years ago, and Ukraine had fired huge ballistic missiles, launching them from Ukrainian territory. They go up in sky and they form that parabola and they come crashing down and probably get shot down by Russian air defenses or they explode on a Russian base. That would be the traditional kind of attack. You'd need a huge powerful rocket that can fly at the speed of sound and is launched and the whole world is watching and there's tents and you know, I think if that had happened, we'd be talking about, is this going to, you know, have some sort of Russian nuclear response? I mean, it would be a much more aggressive. There'd be a lot of concern right now had Ukraine done that. Whose ballistic missiles were they? Were they American, were they German? What kind of missiles were they? But they didn't do that. Instead, they smuggled in and dropped these drones off and sent them, you know, on the attack, just outside the Russian bases. Totally different kind of attack. And there is no real protocol for how you're supposed to respond to that. It's another dynamic that hasn't really been factored into the world of war yet.
- [16:29]
Yelda
We just talked about the fact that, you know, it won't just be, you know, Western governments taking note and learning lessons about the way in which Ukraine launched this operation and how exposed Russia was. But the likes of China will be also looking at this. Okay, you know, if we were to go into some kind of confrontation with the United States, what tactics would we use? And, and I don't know whether you have any insights or intel into what they, the Russians might do.
- [16:59]
Richard Engel
I, I think the assumption is they're going to respond in kind. They're going to respond either with drones or they're going to respond with missiles. This all took place in the context of negotiations. It this Ukrainian attack happened as the Russians and the Ukrainians were holding ceasefire talks in, in Istanbul. So it's a very good way for the Ukrainians to show that they still have power even if Trump says, oh well, we might cut them off or the Europeans aren't quite ready. It's a way for the Ukrainians to show the Russians in terms that no one can misconstrue, that even on their own, they have the power to inflict a lot of damage on the Russians at a time and place of their choosing. So it was a, I don't want to say brilliant message, but it was a pretty effective message, a pretty effective military operation to do on the, on the more or less opening day of new rounds of peace talks. Welcome back. Yalda, you had an extraordinary documentary on Gaza. I thought it was really well done. And the limitation of reporting in Gaza is obvious. You can't get into Gaza, but that doesn't mean you give up. That doesn't mean you don't talk about what's happening there. You do the best you can. And in this case, aside from singing the pages and singing the praises and telling people they should watch it, what I thought was so extraordinary about this piece is you really used the local staff, you used the reporters in Gaza to maximum effect because they're inside Gaza. They're more or less trapped in Gaza like everyone else. They're under attack like everyone else. They're facing food shortages like everyone else. Even with all the limitations imposed and all the restrictions that the Israelis impose on entry to Gaza for foreign journalists, which are total, you can only go in and if you go on an embed and then you see what they want to show you. It was still, still, I think, an important piece of journalism.
- [19:13]
Yelda
You and I have both covered this story. You've done an embed with the idf. The only way for journalists to get into the the territory. Over the course of the last 20 months, journalists, Western and international journalists have been prevented from going in. We've had to rely on local journalists on the ground who are risking their lives on a daily basis. Dozens and dozens of of Gazan journalists have been killed over the course of the last 20 months. You know, the families of, of these journal killed. And then of course, these heroic local doctors who are working alongside a group of British surgeons who are there at the moment who are conducting life saving, you know, surgery and operations with, often without any anesthesia and talking about the fact that they have one remaining hospital in the south that they're operating from. In the last few days, aid distribution centers have been attacked. An aid distribution center run by the Gaza Humanitarian foundation, which is now the only way for Gazans to get food after a three month blockade which was set up by the Israelis, you know, manned and controlled by the idf. And yet still we're seeing civilian casualties as a result of, of these people going there and trying to get some, some food.
- [20:37]
Richard Engel
Let's just be perfectly frank, because people, enough people understand this conflict and don't understand how Gaza is different, that I think it's worthwhile every single time that you talk about Gaza to lay it out, because people think they know, but they don't know. And they don't necessarily, I think, appreciate how different the conflict is. So you have the war in Ukraine, let's call it a classic conflict. You've got two sides fighting over a territory and both believe that it is theirs. Right. And I'm not gonna attribute any blame or I'm not gonna attribute any whose case is stronger, but, but both sides say this territory, the Donbas or even all of the Ukraine should belong to Russia. And the Ukrainians say, no, it belongs to us. We have our own history and we have our own independence and we're gonna fight for it. Right? So they're fighting for a disputed territory over a disputed territory, but each side has the ability to retreat back to their own motherland. You can go back to Kyiv or you can go into the Carpathians. You can be in Ukraine and still be safe. And there's an industrial base that's working to defeat the other. And you can live in these countries. And if certain times things get really, really bad, like they did in the early stages of the war, they might get this way again. If you want to, you can be a refugee and you can leave, which is a tough thing to do, but you can be a refugee and you can leave and go live in the UK or live in Poland or live wherever a place will find you. Gaza's and the Palestinian conflict is so radically different. But let's take Gaza for a second. Second, yes, the two sides are fighting over a disputed territory. The Palestinians say that the land of Palestine is theirs. How big is. Again, I'm not trying to solve this conflict here and lay blame to other sides. But you have the two sides claiming disputed land and fighting over it. But what's so different is that the Gazans are a captive people. You have 2 million people who can't go anywhere. So that includes Hamas, that includes all the civilians, that includes all the, just the people of Gaza, all the kids, they're there, they can't go anywhere. They're cut off from food, from basic supplies. You have this locked in population that is under attack. So it is not a normal conflict. Nothing about it is normal. And this food distribution system is not normal. It is not the way it works in humanitarian zones and conflicts. It's its own thing. There's nothing else like it.
- [23:08]
Yelda
One of the core reasons, amongst many reasons, why journalists should be allowed to go into Gaza. And again, just like everything else, you know, the Israeli government controls what goes in and out in terms of aid and who goes in and out of, of the territory. And for the last 20 months, you know, international journalists have not been able to verify anything that has happened inside Gaza. We've had to rely on the local journalists who have been, you know, again, risking their lives to tell the story. And when the IDF comes out and says we did not fire on these civilians at these aid distribution centers, we, you know, there was, there were some suspects, the Hamas suspects, and therefore that's why, you know, we fired or whatever the attack was, or whatever you know, they claim may or may not have happened. If journalists were allowed to go in, we'd be able to verify what is actually happening on the ground. I just want to go back to this piece that we did. One of the interviews I did was with the former UN humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths. And you know, one of the major debates in the international community in humanitarian circles at the moment is, you know, the phrase, the G word, the genocide word that people are using. And I put this to Martin Griffiths and I just want us to hear what he had to say.
- [24:34]
Martin Griffiths
Of course it is genocide, just as it is weaponizing aid. We don't need to look behind ourselves to see that that's the case. And that should encourage us even more because of course we all doubt it, whether it come to that level of definition. We all doubted whether famine was actually there. I think starvation is killing people. That's bad enough. We don't have to worry about famine, which is obviously there lurking in the shadows, but also genocide.
- [25:04]
Richard Engel
So that's Martin Griffins. He's a lifelong diplomat. He used to be the UN Under Secretary General for humanitarian affairs and emergency relief. So this is someone who's a lifelong humanitarian worker, spent time in conflict zones, isn't just throwing these terms around lightly.
- [25:20]
Yelda
He's someone that has a lot of credibility in the humanitarian world, the political, the diplomatic world, and has spent decades of his life working through very complex international crises. And he is now coming out, you know, five or six months after leaving his post and saying this is. It is unequivocally genocide. Just a few weeks ago, you know, his successor, Tom Fletcher, addressed the Security Council and said, we need to do X, Y and Z to avoid genocide. He came close to saying it, but he. But it is not a term that, you know, these humanitarian circles international leaders are currently using. So this was an incredibly important shift.
- [26:08]
Richard Engel
I think you also interviewed a former. What was he? He was deputy national security adviser to Prime Minister Netanyahu, Jacob Nagel. And he just didn't want to hear you, didn't want to listen, didn't want to go there. You asked him, I can't remember 10 times, what about, what is Israel's policy? Is Israel trying to starve the people out there? Is Israel deliberately doing this in order to. To force the people of Gaza not just to their knees, but to total collapse and absolute surrender, even kick them out of their homeland? You asked him this, and I think instead of me trying to explain it, I think it just, maybe we should just play a clip and you'll get a sense of how he responded to your repeated questions.
- [26:57]
Yelda
I'm going to quote you what your former prime minister has said.
- [27:01]
Richard Engel
I don't want to. The quotes of people that are against Israel. Sorry.
- [27:08]
Yelda
He said, quote me people from within the government right now. Quote me Benjamin Netanyahu or Ron Dermer. And I said, okay, I'll quote you. You know, the Finance Minister Smartrich, who has said that he's going to. He wants to see Gaza cleansed. And he said, you know, you are. This is deliberate from you. You're attacking Israel. You know, but you know what, Richard? Initially, I was gutted because they're not the kinds of interviews I think it's important to do. Combative inter. But screaming matches is not something that I think the viewer gets much out of.
- [27:42]
Richard Engel
But I couldn't agree more. It's not my cup of tea, but.
- [27:46]
Yelda
I think what's important is that interview gave us insight into the mindset right now. It told its own story. You know, Israeli officials are not currently coming out and wanting to talk. And we, God knows we reached out to every office from the president's office to the prime minister's office, Ron Dermer's office. We tried to, to, you know, reach out across the board to get someone to be part of this, this special program we were doing. And don't forget we spoke to Hamas just a few weeks ago. So it's important to hear from the Israeli side and the Israeli perspective in this conflict. People have a lot of criticism of the Israeli government and the, the way that they're operating. But the fact that they continue to say, well, what about Hamas? No, you tell us what you have done because you say Hamas is a terrorist organization and Hamas is a prescribed terrorist organization. Why are you not talking about what your responsibilities are as a responsible state?
- [28:51]
Richard Engel
Did you see Greta is on her way to the environmentist, Greta Thunberg. She's got on a yacht, just left Sicily and is trying to get to Gaza on a unauthorized humanitarian blockade breaking ship, a converted yacht that is full of now diapers and feminine hygiene kits and things like that on its way to Gaza and just left a short while ago. And another boat that tried to do this a month ago was hit by drones in international waters after it left from Malta. And everyone blamed Israel. Israel has not commented on it. So I know we like to do predictions in the show. I'm putting one out even for free, even before we get to that section. I think her ship is going to be turned around. I think they're going to be blocked, they're going to be droned. That ship is not going to make it to Ghassan Shore.
- [29:46]
Yelda
And you know, terrifying remarks from Senator Lindsey Graham who said I hope Greta knows how to swim. That's a U.S. senator, a Republican U.S. senator.
- [29:59]
Richard Engel
Influential one.
- [29:59]
Yelda
Yeah, incredibly influential. You know, put out, put out a statement saying I hope she knows how to, how to swim. And we've seen these sorts of attempts in the past. The flotilla that left Turkey years ago and a month ago, as you say. So you know, we'll have to wait and see what happens. You mentioned their predictions.
- [30:17]
Richard Engel
You have one in mind? I've got one in mind.
- [30:19]
Yelda
Well, I was going to, you know, I mentioned the ceasefire talks last week and some contacts on the ground had described it as wishful thinking. I've been also speaking to some contacts in Israel and they, you know, the sense is that the escalation that we're seeing at the moment, the daily bombardment, this cannot continue. And these talks are gaining momentum and you know, the ball, they're saying Witkoff, the US Special envoy and the Israelis are saying the ball is now in Hamas's court and Hamas hasn't necessarily come out and outright rejected it. And there's now conversations behind the scenes whether they agree to a 60 day ceasefire, which will ultimately lead to a 1212 month ceasefire, which could potentially see Israel, you know, in a position where there could be a leadership change. For example, you know, between September of this year and November, an election could be called. And that is the sort of prediction that there could be elections in Israel. The elections would happen sort of four months after they were called. And the question is, will Israel see another five years of Benjamin Netanyahu or will someone else emerge? Because of course, there are huge questions about the security failings of October 7th. It's about survival for him, it's about the election for him, it's about getting another five year term. So he is speaking directly to his base. The United States could tell him to stop this tomorrow, Enough is enough. And he would have to stop, frankly. But right now for Benjamin Netanyahu, the focus is domestic. It's about the election, it's about winning another five year term. So my prediction this week is that's my long term prediction in terms of the, the election being called in Israel at the end of the year. And who knows whether it will be Benjamin Netanyahu or not. My prediction is that perhaps, you know, we will see some kind of ceasefire which might see a 60 day cessation of hostilities.
- [32:19]
Richard Engel
So a decisive election that may or may not get rid of Netanyahu at the end of the year, by the end of the year. And that some Progress on the 60 day ceasefire in the short term.
- [32:27]
Yelda
Correct.
- [32:30]
Richard Engel
I'm dialing back some of the optimism that I had for Iran deal because there's been some new developments. So, as we've talked about, I've been in Iran a lot over the last several months and I was pretty convinced that they were very close to a deal. And I think they were very close to a deal. I spoke with a senior advisor to the Supreme Leader. He told me what Iran's conditions were. I reported that out. President President Trump reposted it on his Truth Social, saying, well, it looks like they pretty much made a deal and things looked very promising that there was going to be a deal. And if you listen to what President Trump said, he said, I think we're going to get very close and we're there and you're going to hear some good news in two days or three days. So he kept teasing that there was going to be something imminently announced about an Iran deal still could happen. But now we know, and President Trump has explained it a little bit more what the US Position was as it was presented to Iran. And I'm hearing this from diplomatic sources as well. It was a harder position. It was, it was not as flexible as the US had been telegraphing. And now the US Position is that Iran, according to President Trump, cannot enrich uranium at all. That can't have even a minimum level for civilian use. They had talked about reducing the level to which they enrich uranium, maybe enriching it to, you know, 3% or 2% or 4%. But the U.S. position now, as it has been presented to the Iranian side, is no enrichment whatsoever. And that's, that's going to be a very difficult pill for them to swallow. Maybe they will, maybe they still get there. Maybe this, these negotiations continue. But I don't think it's as imminent as a. Yeah. Used to.
- [34:26]
Yelda
Well, we'll, we'll have to wait and see what happens over the course of the next week. And until we meet again, Richard, thank you for listening. And like I said, follow us wherever you get your podcasts, Apple or Spotify.
- [34:38]
Richard Engel
Thanks very much. And please keep sending in those, those emails, questions, comments to the world sky.uk.
- [34:51]
Yelda
Sa.