Podcast Summary: "Imran Khan versus the military – What's just happened in Pakistan?"

The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Sky News
Guests: Zulfi Bukhari (Imran Khan’s advisor and international spokesperson)
Main Theme: The current crisis in Pakistan—Imran Khan’s imprisonment, the military’s expanded power, and international implications.

Overview

In this compelling episode, Yalda Hakim and Richard Engel provide a rare, in-depth discussion of recent developments in Pakistan, centering on the fate of former Prime Minister Imran Khan, his imprisonment under dire conditions, and the unprecedented consolidation of power by Pakistan’s military. The hosts are joined by Zulfi Bukhari, Imran Khan’s top international spokesperson, offering firsthand insights into Khan’s treatment and the political context. The episode also includes a significant update on the Ukraine war, peace negotiations, and global power dynamics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Pakistan Matters Right Now (04:47–07:00)

• Pakistan’s Global Significance:
  • Large, young population (~250 million)
  • Second-largest Muslim nation; only Muslim-majority country with nuclear arms.
  • “It becomes one of the most relevant countries on the planet and then it’s completely forgotten.” — Yalda Hakim (03:46)
  • Strategic relationships with the US, China, and Gulf states; emerging economic power.
• Recent Spotlight:
  • Pakistan’s role in Donald Trump’s Gaza peace plan; Trump’s endorsement of current Pakistani leadership.
  • “When Donald Trump unveiled that 20-point peace plan and signed it… it was Pakistan’s Prime Minister that he invited to the podium…” — Yalda Hakim (06:09)

2. Imran Khan’s Imprisonment & Political Context (07:21–10:01)

• Conviction & Alleged Political Motives:
  • Imran Khan imprisoned since August 2023, convicted in corruption cases widely regarded as politically motivated.
  • “Being a Prime Minister in Pakistan, it’s almost part of the job description that you end up in prison.” — Yalda Hakim (08:32)
• Civilian vs. Military Power:
  • Enduring, uneasy relationship between Pakistan’s civilian governments and the powerful military.
  • “No Pakistani prime minister has ever served and then not ended up in prison…” — Yalda Hakim (08:44)
  • Imran Khan’s genuine support base in Punjab challenged military comfort; his popularity considered a threat.

3. Imran Khan’s Story—From Cricket Star to Political Prisoner (10:01–12:12)

• Personal Magnetism & Public Appeal:
  • International sex symbol, sports legend, married to Jemima Goldsmith—“one of the most famous sports people on the planet.” — Yalda Hakim (10:19)
  • His sons and ex-wife campaign for his release from abroad.
  • “He took the cricket team from being a ragtag team to actually victory in a World Cup.” — Yalda Hakim (10:24)

4. Exclusive Interview: Zulfi Bukhari on Imran Khan’s Condition (12:12–19:10)

a. Solitary Confinement & Mental Torture (12:12–13:18)

• “He’s been completely isolated… not being allowed outside… it’s mental torture.” — Zulfi Bukhari (12:45)
• Only a brief visit allowed after 30+ days without contact; even the court’s list of approved visitors ignored.

b. Legality, UN Findings, and Prison Conditions (13:18–15:30)

• UN Working Group calls Khan’s imprisonment “illegal… should be immediately released.” — Zulfi Bukhari (13:20)
• Isolated in a “death cell”—normally reserved for terrorists and death row prisoners.
• “It’s insane… we are being drip fed about who’s allowed to see him…” — Zulfi Bukhari (14:38)

c. The Role of Public and International Pressure (15:30–17:15)

• Outcry by family, advisers, and social media created enough pressure for officials to permit a brief visit.
• “It’s the international media… that’s definitely caused most of the pressure.” — Zulfi Bukhari (16:40)

d. Army Chief’s Power Grab and Its Impact (17:15–18:21)

• Chief of Army Staff Asim Munir’s recent amendments to the constitution are seen as targeting Khan and consolidating military power.
• “Imran Khan’s biggest enemy isn’t the Chief of Army Staff… it’s actually his own popularity.” — Zulfi Bukhari (17:34)

e. Khan’s Future: Hope and Uncertainty (18:26–19:10)

• “I think Imran Khan will not only be free, I think he will lead the country, the people… what you’re seeing right now is a movement in the making.” — Zulfi Bukhari (18:28)

5. Analysis: Civil-Military Power Dynamic & Future Prospects (19:25–20:25)

• Richard Engel underscores Pakistan’s persistent civil-military tension: “That power dynamic… has always been really at the heart of the country.” (19:25)
• Yalda is skeptical about Khan’s imminent release: “For as long as the Trump administration is in power and…the army chief, the prime minister…have endeared themselves to him, I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon.” (19:40–20:20)

6. Ukraine War Update and Pivotal Negotiations (21:55–30:48)

a. Battlefield and Diplomacy Realities (22:19–25:13)

• Ukraine is in crisis militarily and diplomatically, with Russia making slow advances and Ukrainian infrastructure repeatedly targeted.
• “It’s a very dark time for Ukraine… The initial proposal, this 28 point plan, seemed very much like it was written with the Russians' interests in mind.” — Richard Engel (22:19)
• Trump administration's envoys—most notably Jared Kushner—perceived as seeking a rapid deal, potentially leaning toward Russian preferences.

b. The Nature of the Peace Talks (26:27–27:54)

• Peace-brokering team includes “people who are friendly to Putin… want to get to yes, who want to deliver a win for their boss back home, Donald Trump.” — Richard Engel (27:14)
• Structural imbalance: “If you’re not at the table, you’re on the table.” — Yalda Hakim (25:13)

c. Putin’s Leverage and Ukrainian Resistance (27:58–30:48)

• Putin dictating terms, has “declared new gains on the battlefield.”
• “The Ukrainians are resilient… They are not going to accept a humiliating defeat.” — Richard Engel (29:42)
• Deep dependence on U.S. support and the risk of “uncomfortable compromises.” — Yalda Hakim (30:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Yalda Hakim on Civil-Military Relations:
  “Being a Prime Minister in Pakistan, it’s almost part of the job description that you end up in prison.” (08:32)

• Zulfi Bukhari on Imran Khan’s Ordeal:
  “He’s been completely isolated… it’s mental torture.” (12:45)
  “Imran Khan’s biggest enemy isn’t…the Chief of Army Staff… it’s actually his own popularity.” (17:34)
  “I think Imran Khan will not only be free, I think he will lead the country, the people.” (18:28)

• Richard Engel acknowledging Ukraine’s Weak Position:
  “If you’re not at the table, you’re on the table.” (25:13)
  “They are very dependent on the United States… when you want to get to yes quickly, you got to make compromises. And those compromises might be made here.” (30:18)

• Yalda, on hopes for Imran Khan:
  “I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon.” (19:54)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | | -------------------------------------------------- | --------------- | | Why Pakistan is globally relevant | 04:47–07:00 | | Imran Khan’s political journey | 07:21–10:01 | | Imran Khan’s personal story | 10:01–12:12 | | Zulfi Bukhari interview: Khan’s status & conditions| 12:12–19:10 | | Civil-military power analysis | 19:25–20:25 | | Ukraine war battlefield and diplomacy update | 21:55–30:48 | | The impact of peace talks & power dynamics | 26:27–30:48 |

Tone & Closing Thoughts

Yalda and Richard maintain a frank, analytical tone, blending personal insight, grounded skepticism, and a sense of urgency about global events. Zulfi Bukhari’s testimony provides a passionate and unsettling picture of the human and political stakes for Imran Khan. The episode’s Ukraine coverage underscores the challenges of diplomatic negotiation under stark power imbalances.

Summary for New Listeners:
This episode offers a must-hear, clear-eyed look at why Pakistan is making headlines again, unpacks the human story behind Imran Khan’s imprisonment, exposes the deep fault lines of civil-military rule in Pakistan, and draws out the global stakes with patient, authoritative reporting—before pivoting to an equally pivotal update on Ukraine’s existential struggle.

For more updates or to submit questions, listeners are encouraged to reach out for the Christmas special.