Trump & The Prince: Why is the Saudi leader’s visit to the White House so significant?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim

Episode: Trump & The Prince: Why is the Saudi leader’s visit to the White House so significant?
Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Yalda Hakim (Sky News), Richard Frost (NBC)

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Episode Overview

This episode provides deep analysis and frontline perspectives on three intertwined global flashpoints:

• The dramatic US military buildup near Venezuela and its implications for Latin America
• The high-profile visit of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) to Washington, marking his return to the international stage after years of controversy
• The conviction and death sentence of Bangladesh’s long-serving former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina

Yalda and Richard leverage exclusive interviews, sharp commentary, and personal experiences to unpack these complex developments, exploring leadership, power, and the unpredictable course of 21st-century geopolitics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Venezuela, Latin America, and Trump’s Military Moves

[03:04 – 18:28]

US Military Buildup & Regional Anxiety

• Richard recounts his recent reporting trip to Colombia amid major US military deployments in the Caribbean, dubbed Operation Southern Spear.

  “What is President Trump up to? Why has he sent around more than 10,000 American troops and sailors? … Maduro feels this is about regime change. And President Trump said Maduro's days are numbered.” — Richard Frost [06:51]

• Trump administration justifies lethal strikes on boats as targeting drug traffickers, but Richard’s interviews with local fishermen show civilian lives are being devastated.

• President Gustavo Petro of Colombia, nearing the end of his term, speaks out against what he sees as US political and military domination, rather than a genuine war on drugs:

  “It is undoubtedly an aggression against Latin America. The Caribbean Sea is considered a zone of peace. It must remain that way. All this activity seems to be more of a transformation from the war against drugs into a matter of political and military control of Latin America by means of fear.” — President Gustavo Petro [12:22]

Mixed Messaging and Uncertain Outcomes

• Maduro uses public rallies, even singing John Lennon’s Imagine, as both plea for peace and domestic mobilization:

  “He’s making it very public that he doesn’t want an open fight with the United States… At the same time, he’s handing out weapons to his people.” — Richard Frost [03:50]

• Trump appears to keep diplomatic options open (possibly insincerely), applying pressure to force Maduro’s ouster or at least major concessions.

  “Trump carries a big stick and does not walk softly, but I don’t know if he’s necessarily sincere about wanting talks with Maduro.” — Richard Frost [13:44]

US-Colombian Relations & Drug War Redux

• Yalda highlights that Colombia, despite massive drug seizures, is being labeled an enemy by Trump—echoes of the 1980s’ drug wars:

  “It sort of feels a little bit like we're going back to the 1980s...” — Richard Frost [16:19]

• Discussion of how domestic US politics, migration, and drugs are driving foreign policy choices, with devastating regional consequences.

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2. Mohammed bin Salman’s Washington Comeback

[19:31 – 27:27]

From Pariah to Partner

• This marks MBS’s first US visit since 2018 and the Khashoggi murder, a watershed moment where both the murder and MBS’s presumed involvement drew global outrage.

  “This very much feels like a comeback tour for MBS… Donald Trump is rolling out the red carpet for Saudi Arabia’s de facto leader...” — Yalda Hakim [19:31]

• Richard pinpoints the realpolitik at play:

  “Too rich, too powerful to ignore for too long… I don’t think he’s going to get raked over the coals too much by this administration over the Khashoggi affair. I don’t think they’re going to bring it up at all, frankly…” — Richard Frost [21:58]

Ruthless Reform and the Consolidation of Power

• Yalda describes MBS’s rise, his purges of potential rivals, and his use of both modernization rhetoric and iron-fist tactics:

  “He consolidated his power by more or less rounding up the establishment, rounding up the most powerful people in Saudi Arabia at the time, and locking them up, up in a hotel…” — Yalda Hakim [23:07]

• Discussion of how the 2018 Khashoggi murder scandal did not end MBS’s career, and how international priorities ultimately shifted.

New Deals and Strategic Concerns

• The US-Saudi defense pact is expected to mirror existing agreements with Qatar—possibly extending American-style security guarantees.

• Major arms deals are expected, but there are behind-the-scenes worries about advanced fighter technology (F-35s) and Saudi ties to China.

  “The concern is, will the Saudis ever leak the technology [F-35s] to the likes of the Chinese?” — Yalda Hakim [25:37]

• The perceived inconsistency of Trump’s foreign policy draws scrutiny—even among his own supporters:

  “Some people in his camp are asking openly what happened to America First—I thought we weren’t going to be the policemen of the world anymore.” — Richard Frost [27:27]

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3. Bangladesh: Sheikh Hasina’s Downfall and the Gen Z Uprising

[28:18 – 36:01]

The End of a Legacy?

• Sheikh Hasina, hailed as Bangladesh’s longest-serving PM, has been sentenced to death for crimes against humanity after a brutal crackdown in response to student-led protests in July 2024.

  “...she governed as an authoritarian leader, and you know, with an iron fist. ...When I sat down with her … she was very feisty and fiery and pushed back hard and completely rejected absolutely everything I was saying.” — Yalda Hakim [34:02]

• The protests, described as a “Gen Z uprising,” resulted in alleged security force killings of at least 1400 protesters under her watch.

• The swift verdict is considered politically charged; Hasina and her supporters denounce it as a “kangaroo court.”

Reactions and Broader Trends

• Hasina remains in exile in India, her extradition unlikely.
• Yalda contextualizes the events within a wave of youth uprisings challenging entrenched rulers across the developing world:

  “People are describing the movements we’re seeing in places like Bangladesh last year ... as the Gen Z uprisings... It suddenly evolves from a protest against joblessness to an attack on the ruling class.” — Yalda Hakim [32:34]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “President Trump carries a big stick and does not walk softly, but I don't know if he's necessarily sincere about wanting talks with Maduro.” — Richard Frost [13:44]

• “It is undoubtedly an aggression against Latin America. The Caribbean Sea is considered a zone of peace. It must remain that way.” — Gustavo Petro [12:22]

• “You don’t often see world leaders put something so scandalous and so shocking behind themselves so quickly... then being welcomed back as a key partner by the United States.” — Richard Frost [21:58]

• “He consolidated his power by more or less rounding up the establishment... and locking them up in a hotel where the world had no idea what his plans were.” — Yalda Hakim [23:07]

• “People are describing the movements in Bangladesh, Nepal, Madagascar as the Gen Z uprisings... It suddenly sort of evolves from a protest against joblessness to an attack on the ruling class.” — Yalda Hakim [32:34]

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Segment Timestamps

• US-Venezuela Tensions & Latin America – [03:04 – 18:28]
• MBS’s Washington Visit & Saudi-US Ties – [19:31 – 27:27]
• Bangladesh & Sheikh Hasina – [28:18 – 36:01]
• Hosts' Predictions & Closing Thoughts – [36:01 – 39:24]

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Predictions and What to Watch

[36:01 – 39:24]

• Gaza Stabilization Force: Yalda is monitoring the evolution of a UN-backed force for Gaza amid ongoing ceasefire negotiations.
• Corruption Scandal in Ukraine: Both hosts flag concerns as the investigation targets Zelensky’s inner circle.
• Latin America Military Escalation: Richard warns that military assets are in place and, per Chekhov’s maxim, “once the guns are on the table, they’re likely to get used.”

  “Once the guns come out ... there’s a cost to pulling it back. ... People I spoke to believed Trump would take some sort of military action against Venezuela before the end of the year.” — Richard Frost [37:21]

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode combines field reporting, critical interviews, and hard-nosed analysis, underscoring the unpredictability and interconnectedness of global power struggles. The candid, sometimes wry tone matches the seriousness of the subject matter, with the hosts challenging received wisdom and official narratives.

Listeners are left with open questions about the durability of authoritarian rule, America’s shifting international posture, and the potential for further instability in several world regions.

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For more episodes, analysis, and direct reporting from Yalda Hakim and Richard Frost, subscribe to The World and send in your questions.

Transcript

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[Yalda Hakim]

Hello and welcome to the world with me, Yalda.

[Richard Frost]

And I'm in London and me, Richard. And I am back home in Lisbon, having just come back from South America.

[Unnamed Interviewee (possibly a political figure or analyst)]

I've been speaking to Mexico. They know how I stand. We're losing hundreds of thousands of people to drugs. We know the addresses of every drug lord. We know everything about every one of them. They're killing our people. That's like a war. Would I do it? I'd be proud to. I'd probably go into Congress and say, hey, and you know what? The Democrats or the Republicans would both agree.

[Yalda Hakim]

Peace. Peace.

[Richard Frost]

Peace. The mainland hospital.

[Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain]

We have decided to inflict her with only one sentence.

[Yalda Hakim]

That is sentence of death. Bangladesh's former prime minister Sheikh Hasina, sentenced to death for crimes against humanity.

[Unnamed Interviewee (possibly a political figure or analyst)]

And if I didn't like him, I'd get out of here so fast. You know that, don't you? He knows me well. I do. I like him a lot. I like him too much. That's why we give so much, you know? Too much. I like you too much.

[Yalda Hakim]

Richard, how are you? Because I wondered, are you feeling a bit jet lagged?

[Richard Frost]

No, I think if I were jet lagged and same with you, you'd have to try, you know, do something else for a living. I've already sort of accepted that as part of my life. A constant sort of state of. Of jet lag. But no, it was great. It was a really interesting trip. It's an interesting time focusing on this US military buildup in Latin America. Is there going to be military action against Venezuela, against Maduro, and managed to inter the President of Colombia, who himself has a fascinating backstory and is in a bit of a verbal war of words right now with President Trump. He's been sanctioned by Trump. He called him a barbarian. So we're going to get into that.

[Yalda Hakim]

And you know, speaking of the Americas, did you see that video of the Venezuelan President singing John Lennon's Imagine? Everyone should go and listen to that.

[Richard Frost]

Because it is very, it is bizarre and is also indicative. So there's now a lot of military power built up around Venezuela. So Maduro clearly feels like he has American crosshairs on his back or maybe on his forehead right now. And he's making it very public that he doesn't want an open fight with the United States. He doesn't want to be in an open war, which of course he would lose. So now he's in public rallies singing Imagine by John Lennon. Imagine if there's peace. He spoke in English at another rally, a government run rally in support, saying, we just want peace, peace, peace. That's in English. But he's also handing out weapons to his people, telling them that they've gotta get ready to fight to defend the country against the imperialists. And he did one of these call and response things. He was at a rally and he said, who wants to be a colony of the Yankees? Not the baseball team, the gringos. And of course, nobody answered. So he's sort of whipping up public opinion, but at the same time, I think he's signaling. He doesn't really. He doesn't want to get into an open fight.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah, and we'll be covering that. We'll also be talking about Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi Crown Prince's trip to the United States. He'll be meeting with President Trump for that visit, his first visit since 2018. So we'll go into that. And I really want to talk about Bangladesh. The Prime Minister, former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, sentenced to death for. For crimes against humanity. So we'll be bringing that to you as well.

[Richard Frost]

And you've met her?

[Yalda Hakim]

I have. I did an interview with her in London and I can tell you she is a fiery, fiery woman.

[Richard Frost]

And now sentenced to the gallows.

[Yalda Hakim]

Absolutely. Ran the country longest serving prime minister and as you say, in exile now. And, and sentenced to. To death. So we're going to be talking about all of that. Don't forget to follow us on Spotify or Apple. And a reminder, you can watch us also on YouTube. Just search the world with Rich Yalda and you can send us your thoughts, questions, anything that crosses your mind about what we're discussing here at the usual place, the world sky.uk. So, Richard, as we were just saying, you are back. What on earth was going on or continues to go on in South America? How worried should we be? One minute it feels like we're on the brink of war there, confrontation between the United States and Venezuela, and the next minute we're hearing President Trump wants to talk with the Venezuelans. Is this a combination of military buildup and pressure, but also a diplomatic channel opening up as well?

[Richard Frost]

So I think a diplomatic back channel, not a public negotiation at this stage. But the questions you're asking are the questions that everyone is asking themselves right now all across Latin America. What is President Trump up to? Why has he sent around more than 10,000American troops and sailors? And the biggest American aircraft carrier in the fleet, the USS Gerald Ford, a nuclear powered sub, several other warships, American fighter jets, drones. This operation now has a name, Operation Southern Spear, which was announced by Secretary of Defense, or as he likes to call himself, Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth. So what is this all about? Maduro feels this is about regime change. And President Trump said Maduro's days are numbered. Maduro, of course, the authoritarian president of Venezuela. I wasn't in Venezuela. It's difficult for Americans to get visas there. So I was next door in Colombia and I interviewed the President who has been sanctioned by the, by President Trump and his administration and he's been critical of the increasing number of American lethal strikes on boats. So in addition to the buildup, there are also these regular strikes on boats. And I went up to Santa Marta, which is a beach area up in, up on the Caribbean coast, and I spoke to fishermen there and they are the ones who are getting killed on these boats.

[Yalda Hakim]

So just, just, Richard, just to clarify, these boats are being targeted by the Trump administration because they're saying that they full of drugs, they're run by the drug cartels. But the fishermen you're speaking to, they're saying these are not drug cartels, they're, they're fishermen.

[Richard Frost]

Well, a little bit of both, frankly. I think it would be naive to say that no fisherman has ever been involved in the drug trade from Colombia or South America in general. And I spoke to the President and I asked him, do you think there's drugs on these boats? And he said, you know, we really don't know. Maybe there are, maybe they're not. But I can tell you one thing, they're not the drug kingpins. Drug kingpins, big drug gangsters, don't go on these boats. They're poor fishermen who maybe take some money from a boss. So there is a network, but it is also having a chilling effect on civilian fishermen. So I spoke to this family of fishermen and they had a tiny little boat and a 25 horsepower engine on the back. They were not going to be taking any drugs anywhere. But what they are doing now is they're just going and casting their nets just off the shore. And I mean, just off the shore, I could swim up where this boat was because they're nervous to go, you know, several miles out, worried that they're going to get possibly destroyed. So there's this climate of fear and uncertainty, and the fishermen are saying, listen, don't make us suffer. You guys should have good intelligence. You can see there's a little dinghy here with a 25 horsepower motor on it. I'm not some drug narco. But they're still being influenced by this policy because they're now fishing off the sea. So I have a clip of the president and I asked him about what he thinks is going on. But to set it up, it's interesting to know who he is. Gustavo Petro is the president. In Colombia, they only have one term. So he's nearing the end of his term. You get four years and that's it. Which is quite, you know, interesting and democratic. It also means that he can speak openly now and he's not really hiding his thoughts. I mean, he's worried. He doesn't want to upset President Trump too much because there are warships off of his coast. But he's been very outspoken against President Trump, and he thinks what is happening now isn't really just about fighting narcotics, which is what the Trump administration says it's all about. But it's about Trump asserting political dominance in the Latin American area. So before we hear from him, also, he is a proud revolutionary. He was a former guerrilla fighter from a left wing group, then he was a university lecturer. And now he's president for the, for the time being, representing the left wing, which he's quite proud to say. President Trump has called you a lunatic. He said that you are in league with the drug traffickers, that you don't do very much to stop the flow of, of narcotics. So what would you say to him?

[Gustavo Petro]

That he is completely wrong. He's being cheated and deceived. The government of Colombia, the one that I represent, has seized more cocaine than any other government in world history. Trump's insult is at odds with reality, how can he call the largest destroyer of cocaine a chief trafficker?

[Yalda Hakim]

So, Richard, that's fascinating because Donald Trump has described him as a drug lord and frankly labeled all of them terrorists, including these narco terrorists. Narco terrorists, because justifying the strikes, justifying the buildup, saying that these are like the terrorists of, of Latin America, which is, you know, they're saying is, is directly impacting the homeland. So this is one of the main reasons they're doing this.

[Richard Frost]

Let's hear hear one more clip where I asked him about the sort of bigger political changes afoot as he sees them. What is your reaction to this massive US Military buildup in the Caribbean?

[Gustavo Petro]

It is undoubtedly an aggression against Latin America. The Caribbean Sea is considered a zone of peace. It must remain that way. All this activity seems to be more of a transformation from the war against drugs into a matter of political and military control of Latin America by means of fear.

[Richard Frost]

Do you think that the Trump administration is heading toward war, that this region is heading toward military conflict?

[Gustavo Petro]

He wants to frighten us. Using fear is not the same as using facts.

[Yalda Hakim]

So that's quite an extraordinary interview, Richard. I mean, Nicolas Maduro, the Venezuelan president, has taken a different sort of approach. He's, he's almost said, look, I'm open to talks with the U.S. president. You know, I want to resolve this. Donald Trump, as you say, has made it quite clear that he wants to see not necessarily regime change, but regime destruction. At least it put so much pressure on the Venezuelan authorities that, you know, it basically forces that shift. And the change that, that he's hoping to see. Are we starting to see, you know, with Donald Trump saying ye could potentially talk to Nicolas Maduro, some kind of shift in this moment, it's hard to know.

[Richard Frost]

This is part of Trump's negotiating strategy. You know, so it's in the past, America's foreign policy was going back to Teddy Roosevelt, you know, carry a big stick, but walk softly. President Trump carries a big stick and does not walk softly, but I don't know if he's necessarily sincere about wanting talks with Maduro. If you remember, the U.S. his administration was involved in talks with Iran and then ended up supporting Israel's attack on Iran and then joining Israel's attack on Iran. There's a lot of military power now pointed at not just Venezuela, but all of the Caribbean. The Colombian president we just heard from, that was his first interview since he cut off intelligence sharing with the US in opposition to these lethal boat strikes. And Venezuela, as Maduro has made it clear that he wants to talk perhaps, while he's also arming his population and telling them to get ready to defend against American imperialism. So there's a lot of pressure being put on Venezuela, and I think it's also being put on the people around Maduro. Briefings that I had gave me the impression that what President Trump really wants is to get rid of Maduro and to put so much pressure on the generals around him, his aides, his backers, so that they get rid of him and overthrow him. But that might not happen. You know, you could put pressure on them and just force concessions, forced negotiations. But Trump is trying to, it does seem, look for some sort of possible off ramp. Whether that includes Maduro being required to leave or not, I don't think we know at this stage, or I don't know at this stage.

[Yalda Hakim]

What's extraordinary about the situation with Venezuela is it did feel, you know, at the start of this year that things were starting to look a bit better in terms of relations with the United States and Venezuela. The Venezuelans were, you know, accepting back thousands of asylum seekers that were being shipped back from the United States to Venezuela. All these Venezuelans that have had their visas revoked and told to go back because there is no place for them in the United States. And at the same time, you know, President Trump is saying it's not safe. It's run by this authoritarian regime and narco state, you know, so they're pinning all their problems of migration and drugs, you know, on. On these countries and saying that we have this military buildup, need to resolve the problem here. But at the same time, we're seeing sort of mixed messaging.

[Richard Frost]

And that's why so many people in the region are wondering what President Trump is up to. Why restart the war on drugs? It sort of feels a little bit like we're going back to the 1980s. You know, in the 1980s, Colombia was run by Pablo Escobar, and it was effectively lawless and he could do what he wanted, operating with various guerrilla groups. He blew up an aircraft, he controlled polit. He had a government within a government. But after that, after the 80s and early 90s, the Colombians became close American allies, working with the DEA and the CIA and the FBI, and became the closest partner that the United States has in the fight against mostly cocaine from Colombia and other areas. A lot of the fentanyl and other drugs come from other places, from Mexico, products coming in from China. But the cocaine has always been associated with the cartels and other militant groups in Colombia. And that region. So since then, they've been seizing a lot. President Petro isn't wrong that they're seizing more and more cocaine. They're producing more and more. But the defense minister also spoke to the defense minister. He said, and I also spoke to the head of the counterterrorism unit, a counter narcotics unit that goes into the jungle, that they're destroying a cocaine laboratory every 40 minutes, which I thought was an extraordinary number. And these are not big places. Some of them are just shacks deep in the bush. But every 40 minutes. So that's a lot of cocaine. So there's a demand for it. And that's what President Petro was saying. He said, you got to look at the demand. If people, mostly Americans, still want to buy this stuff and are still willing to paid lots and lots of money for it, that you got to look at that issue as well and not just beat up on the fishermen and the. Well, and obviously the drum kingpins who are making a lot of money and selling a dangerous product.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah. So I guess watch this space to see how that evolves in terms of Donald Trump's rhetoric as well as the continued military buildup that we're seeing.

[Richard Frost]

Let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about the crown prince, de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia, his trip to Washington, and his extraordinary transformation from pariah back to world leader.

[Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain]

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[Yalda Hakim]

Welcome back to the world. So we've just been hearing about what's going on in South America, and I just want to talk about what's happening in the White House this week. You'll remember last week we had the Syrian president, Ahmed Al Sharar, the former Al Qaeda leader and bomb maker in Washington. Well, this week the bromance tour continues because Donald Trump is rolling out the red carpet for Saudi Arabia's de facto leader, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, his first trip to the United states, to Washington, D.C. since I believe, 2018, which was an incredibly significant year for the crown prince, for Saudi Arabia, because that was the year of course, where the commentator, the journalist, the activist Jamal Khashoggi was killed at the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul. And it caused uproar, outrage, a long investigation and in many ways Mohammed bin Salman, the finger of blame was pointed at him, including by US Intelligence. They determined that it was a team of, of about 15 Saudi agents who'd flown to Istanbul to carry out the capture or kill operation which they said was approved by the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman. This very much feels like a comeback tour for MBS. This is, you know, this is almost MBS 2.0. Donald Trump is back in the White House and he is also now going to be making this to Donald Trump who describes Mohammed bin Salman as a friend. Saudi Arabia was again one of the first places that Donald Trump went to as President. He made his first official foreign visit to Saudi Arabia earlier this year. They struck up a range of, of deals around AI and they talked about this defense pact that they wanted to sign and it looks like that is likely to take place. But isn't it sort of mind blowing and quite extraordinary how far in the space of these last seven or so years Mohammed bin Salman has come from this young, 30 something year old Crown Prince to who he is today? You know, it does feel like a comeback tour for him, but also we are seeing a changing and evolving Saudi Arabia as well.

[Richard Frost]

Too rich, too powerful to ignore for too long. The United States has a close relationship with Saudi Arabia, always has. It was on hold for a while when mbs, as he's commonly known, was put on ice and was a bit of a pariah and people didn't want to publicly associate with him, publicly defend him. But that seems to have blown over by now. So I don't think he's going to get raked over the coals too much by this administration over the Khashoggi affair. I don't think they're going to bring it up at all, frankly. Maybe there'll be some small protests, but as you say, an extraordinary transformation. You don't get to see or you don't often see people, world leaders like that put something so scandalous and so shocking behind themselves so quickly. You know, dispatching, according to this intelligence investigation afterwards, a team of assassins to kill and dismember a political opponent and a critic in a foreign country on a, in a diplomatic facility and then being welcomed back as a, as a key partner by the United States just a few years later.

[Yalda Hakim]

Yeah, I mean, you know, when we think about the reforms that Mohammed bin Salman has introduced over the course of the last 10 years, you know, you think back to the way that he emerged, you know, as this young 30, I believe 30 year old or 31 year old crown prince. He consolidated his power by more or less rounding up the establishment, rounding up the most powerful people in Saudi Arabia at the time, and locking them up, up in a hotel where the world had no idea what his plans and intentions were. And he more or less pacified anyone who was a potential threat to his power.

[Richard Frost]

And he rounded up a lot of other fellow princes and distant relatives, people who could be rivals to him and who had lots and lots of money. It's not like these people are rounding out off the street. He was rounding up other royals and members of the powerful elite to make sure that they were on board with his program and loyal to him.

[Yalda Hakim]

Anyone who was a potential threat was more or less rounded up, put, you know, under house arrest and had to sort of pledge allegiance to him. And you know what was so bizarre at the time? The Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri was visiting Saudi Arabia at the time and he suddenly disappeared. And then he reemerged at a conferen sitting next to Mohammed bin Salman. And then we saw this sort of public stepping down of Saad Hariri. So a lot happened at the time, which many left many people baffled, confused. He talked about the reforms, trying to modernize Saudi Arabia, but he was doing it with an iron fist. And he was being labeled as an authoritarian, young, hot blooded prince where people didn't know which direction he was going to actually take his country. And then, then of course, the Khashoggi thing happened in October 2018, where we saw this commentator, activist, journalist, a contributor to the Washington Post, hacked to death essentially inside the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul. And that left the world shocked and he was shunned. And what we, we are now seeing is him re emerging. First of all, we saw that take place when President Trump visited Saudi Arabia in May of this year. There are a lot of discussions about a defense pact. So what we're likely to see over the course of the next 24 hours or so is, as we know, Saudi Arabia is the biggest purchaser of American weapons. We are likely to see the signing of a defense pact which will very much look, look like the one that the United States has signed with Qatar, which has almost an Article 5, you know, feel about it. The NATO Article 5, which is an attack on one, is an attack on all. And so the idea is that, you know, if, if, for example, the defense pact that the United States signed With Qatar, if Qatar was, was ever attacked or targeted again. I guess, you know, thinking about the, the attack that Israel launched on, on Qatari soil, the United States would step and protect the state of Qatar. So they are saying that this particular defense pact will look very similar. The other thing that is emerging of course is the purchase of the F35s that Saudi Arabia has talked about for some time. The concern is will the Saudis ever leak the technology to the likes of the Chinese? And the Saudis are known to have an alliance. They have a defense pact with Beijing as well. So there are nerves that the Chinese could access the F35 tech. But I think, you know, this will be a big comeback tour for Mohammed Bin Salman. He will sign these big deals. The defense pact will probably see more of these AI and tech deals signed as well and potential purchase of the F35s which no doubt will leave the Israelis, you know, very, very angry and.

[Richard Frost]

Confusing many of President Trump's MAGA supporters. He was elected on a platform of America first and now there's American warships in Latin Americ. He's talking about regime change in Venezuela, although we're not sure how far he's going to go on that. Signing a defense pact with Qatar, signing a defense pact with Saudi Arabia, joining Israel, war against Iran, maybe another round of that to come. Some people in his camp are asking openly what happened to America. First I thought we weren't going to be the policemen of the world anymore. But you said you were surprised or you noted that it is extraordinary that MBS was able to be rehabilitated and welcomed back into the as a world leader. That didn't happen in Bangladesh, the longest serving ruler there. What happened with her?

[Yalda Hakim]

So just to rewind, Sheikh Hasina is the longest serving prime minister in Bangladesh and the longest serving woman in the world. And she first came to power in 1996 for a brief period of time and then returned to power 2008 until July of 2024. The second time that she came to power in that period it was she governed as an authoritarian leader and you know, with an iron fist. And she sort of, you know, the security forces operated under her orders. There were all sorts of draconian laws that she implemented and introduced the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. The United States was investigating mass disappearances under her watch. Up to 700 people are believed or cases of, of disappearances. And that was something. When I sat down with her a couple of years ago and conducted this interview, I asked about the, the mass disappearances. I Asked about the UN investigation into her conduct and, and the fact that the United States had even imposed sanctions against her, her government, because they were so concerned about the human rights. Now what happened last year, Richard, was a student led uprising and protest erupted in July of 2024. And they were protesting about the sort of crackdowns that she had imposed about the kind of rule that she had implemented over, you know, decades in, in Bangladesh. And that protest suddenly turned incredible ugly. The security forces are being accused of, well, not just accused. We saw the images where they opened fire on unarmed civilians and protesters. And the reason why this court in Bangladesh have accused her of crimes against humanity and sentenced her to death, because they're saying the security forces operated under her orders. The UN claims that 1400 people, people were killed in that crackdown on the protesters. Now, in August of last year, I guess she got a sense that things were spiraling out of control and she needed to, to leave. So she fled and went into exile, moved, you know, fled to a neighboring country, to India from Bangladesh and also one of her allied countries. So it's unlikely that she's going to get extradited back to Bangladesh to face this death sentence. But you know, with these things, you know, she's, she's currently 78 years old. You never know where allegiances change and shift and whether that could take place. But that is basically what's happened. I spoke to her son in the last 24 hours and obviously he, alongside his mother, Sheikh Hasina, deny all the accusations by the un, by the human rights lobbies and groups. And this court, they say it was a kangaroo court. This verdict came down within a matter of weeks when frankly have taken months. So it didn't come as a sort of shock to her and her supporters because they saw it coming.

[Richard Frost]

Is this about changing legacy politics in Bangladesh? She's also a legacy candidate. Her father was instrumental in the country's war of independence. She, as you said, was in power for decades now because of this sentence, very likely that she's going to be able to go back home. Is this about closing that chapter of the country's political history and creating space for another? Or why do you think they took this move just to force her to come back or to say, you can never come back and we want to open a new, a new door?

[Yalda Hakim]

I think that they saw this as justice. You know, the court in the courtroom, a lot of the family members of the victims were there. And as soon as the death sentence came down, the court erupted in cheers.

[Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain]

We have Decided to inflict her with.

[Yalda Hakim]

Only one sentence, that is sentence of death. After years of living under a Sheikh Hasina rule, they felt that, you know, justice was, was finally being being served. Now, will she be extradited? At this stage? Unlikely. But you know what's extraordinary, Richard? You know, people are describing the movements we're seeing in places like Bangladesh last year. We. Uprisings in Nepal, in Madagascar as the Gen Z uprisings. But, you know, every now and then you see these student movements come through, come up, speak up and protest against sort of authoritarian rule, unemployment, poverty, the lack of opportunity. It suddenly sort of evolves from, you know, a protest against joblessness to an attack on the ruling class. So it feels like that's what's basically happened.

[Richard Frost]

So, Sheikh Hasina, what kind of a woman is she? When you put these allegations to her, these reports that have said she'd killed this many people and ordered protests, did she accept that as a sort of, well, you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette or what was her response? What kind of a person is she?

[Yalda Hakim]

Well, I met her at. She was in London and I met her at Claridge's, and she was staying in the exact room that her father had stay. And so she wanted to. She said that to me with, With a lot of pride that, you know, she was in the space that her father had come to and visited when he visited London. When I put the accusations around the, the crackdowns in the past that she had in, you know, launched and the arrests of, of any kind of, you know, dissent in the country, anyone speaking up against her, her rule and her regime, the 700 disappearances, cases of disapp, the, the reports that had been conducted by human rights groups, the sanctions imposed by the United States. She rejected them all. And she was very feisty and fiery and pushed back hard and completely rejected absolutely everything I was saying. She wasn't really responding to any of my questions. At one point, one of her advisors came and whispered into her ear and she said, oh, I've heard about that case. Look, this is a complete, you know, fabrication. The whole thing has been fabric. It's. It's the United States and the west moving against my, my government. And she couldn't explain why they would be doing that. So I found her to be incredibly fiery, feisty, pushing back, not answering the questions. Frankly, I don't think she was expecting that kind of, of an interview from me. You know, she. She doesn't know you.

[Richard Frost]

She clearly must not have known you already.

[Yalda Hakim]

She doesn't follow any, any of my work. So I, I, I thought, you know, she has ruled the country with an iron fist for so long for a reason. And, you know, she, she was a tough lady and she remains quite tough. It will have to remain to be seen whether justice is served for, for all of those people who feel they are a victim of, of her rule.

[Richard Frost]

So let's do it. Let's, let's roll out some predictions. I've got one on Latin America, but I can start first. You could start with you want to do it?

[Yalda Hakim]

Sure. I mean, you know, I'm looking at a couple of things at the moment. This stabilization force in Gaza, the vote at the UN Security Council last night, I'm keeping an eye on that because I just want to see how things evolve there. Hamas has pushed back, they've rejected the idea of a stabilization force. It's part of Donald Trump's plan for Gaza. So we'll have to wait and see whether this current phase of the ceasefire holds and if a, what will be the makeup of the stabilization force, which countries will be a part of it and will it crumble? Will it be able to hold? So I'm keeping an eye on that at the moment. The other story I'm watching closely is this corruption scandal that's evolving in Ukraine. Ukraine, you know, we'll have to wait and see. I mean, this is something that Ukraine has long been accused of. The billions of dollars poured into the.

[Richard Frost]

Country and now it's targeting Zelensky's inner circle, people around him, people have been around him for many years. You think trouble is on the, I.

[Yalda Hakim]

Think trouble might be this might be the one that really, you know, as you say, it's close to his inner circle. And we'll have to wait and see how that actually evolves.

[Richard Frost]

I'm watching South America. There's this, you know, the expression of Chekov play.

[Yalda Hakim]

No, what is.

[Richard Frost]

So there's sort of the idea of Chekhov's guns. So going back to Chekhov, the writer, that if a gun is introduced to the plot, it has to be used and it becomes a literary concept that Chekhov's guns. Because you don't introduce a gun into the plot unless suddenly, suddenly it's going to be used in the plot. And you can apply that or has been applied to politics as well. Once the guns come out and you put the guns on the table according to Chekhov's, you know, gun law, they, they're used and President Trump has put a lot of guns out on the table. So we'll see. Once the guns start coming out and you have that much military power assembled, there's a cost to pulling it back. There's a cost to keeping it there, financial cost. But there's also a political cost to pulling it back. President Trump, if he just suddenly withdrew all the troops, sent them home for Thanksgiving, sent them home for Christmas and said, okay, we've achieved our goal here, he might be accused of being a flip flopper, a taco is the expression that his opponents, someone who basically just folds and crumbles and we'll see if that happens. But people I spoke to there, former officials, believed that Trump would take some sort of military action against Venezuela before the end of the year in order to escalate the pressure just that much more on Maduro and the people around him to try and force him out of power or force him to make a better deal that is more satisfying to the Trump administration.

[Yalda Hakim]

We'll have to watch all of these spaces, Richard, see what happens. Have you got another trip planned anywhere? Are you home for a while?

[Richard Frost]

Well, I'm hoping to be home through Thanksgiving, I hope, but it's a, you know, it's a big deal. I'm on the road a lot and I like to be home for certain holidays. Thanksgiving is one of them. Everyone comes over and we have the big dinner. If I have to go, I'll, I'll, I'll move. But I'm hoping to spend some time eating some turkey and, and, and enjoying the, the holiday, the family.

[Yalda Hakim]

Well, fingers crossed. You're home. Home for a little bit. Good to see you, Richard, as always.

[Richard Frost]

Wonderful to see you. And please send us your questions. The worldatsky.uk.

[Yalda Hakim]

Hey, it's Sophie and Will from Sky News. Too many heads, headlines, too little time.

[Richard Frost]

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[Yalda Hakim]

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[Gustavo Petro]

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[Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain]

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[Yalda Hakim]

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[Gustavo Petro]

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