The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Episode: Zelenskyy tells Yalda: Trump, the time to act is now
Date: September 17, 2025
Overview
In this episode, Yalda Hakim recounts her in-depth and candid interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, held in Kyiv as Russian drone and missile attacks on Ukraine escalate and encroach on NATO territory. Richard Engel and Hakim analyze Zelenskyy's urgent message to Donald Trump and European leaders, delve into the evolving military landscape, and address audience questions about shifting alliances, the future of NATO, and the psychological toll of war on Ukraine's leadership and people.
The tone throughout is urgent, skeptical, at times somber—and, above all, raw and honest. As Ukraine faces intensified Russian aggression and uncertainty about American support, the discussion centers on Zelenskyy's frustration, his plea for action from the U.S., and the anxiety rippling through Europe as NATO’s security is tested.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Escalation of Russia’s War and Its Reach into NATO
Timestamps: 00:38 – 01:04
- Russian drone and missile attacks have reached unprecedented levels—800+ drones in a single night, with some entering Polish airspace.
- Poland warns of being closer to open conflict than at any point since WWII.
- Richard Engel contextualizes:
"It used to be 400...big number was 220, 230. When it went over 400 it was a story. 800! And what is it next time—I think we're going to hear it's going to be 1200." (06:41)
2. Yalda Hakim’s Interview with President Zelenskyy
Timestamps: 02:47 – 11:41
- Zelenskyy’s mood is notably more frustrated and defiant than in prior interviews.
- He takes Yalda for a rare, symbolic walk outside to government buildings damaged by Russian attacks.
- Yalda: "He wanted to tell Donald Trump: you have the power to stop Putin, you have the power to sell me more air defense systems, and you can and should act now." (07:25)
- On Russian intent:
"You know...they don't want to hear. They live in their fish tank." (Zelenskyy, 01:07)
Drone Warfare and Technology
- Both sides have become more sophisticated, but the conflict has turned into what Zelenskyy calls "drone hell."
- Rapid generational improvements in drone tech (new models every 3–6 months, much cheaper than heavy weaponry).
3. Zelenskyy’s Direct Message to Trump and the West
Timestamps: 07:25 – 15:24
- Zelenskyy’s plea is focused on American leadership:
"You have the power to stop Putin… you can and should act now." (Yalda paraphrasing Zelenskyy, 07:25)
- He is ready to meet both Trump and Putin, but refuses to travel to Moscow under current conditions:
"No, of course not... Russia attacked us. I can't go to the country... when...they're attacking us." (Zelenskyy, 11:55)
The Alaska Meeting Controversy
Timestamps: 08:37 – 11:06
- Analysts and the hosts agree that the Trump-Putin meeting in Alaska benefited Putin by ending his isolation and providing public legitimacy, but no tangible progress was made for Ukraine.
- Zelenskyy’s frustration is palpable, and he views Trump’s approach as dangerously dismissive.
Quote
- Richard:
"...it was a very interesting answer. Was that his attitude?...What the f just happened. You met there in Alaska and you gave him...all this recognition, and then he...starts bombing Ukraine more heavily." (10:17)
4. Sidelined by the US, Desperate for Western Unity
Timestamps: 11:06 – 19:32
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Zelenskyy feels abandoned by American leadership, perceiving the U.S. as focused elsewhere (e.g., China), while European sanctions and efforts, though significant, are insufficient.
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Yalda observes:
"He’s acutely aware that Donald Trump views this as Europe’s problem. Now, for Volodymyr Zelensky, he’s saying...the Americans need to, frankly, do more." (13:28)
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Concern voiced that direct appeals may backfire, with Trump interpreting Zelenskyy’s calls for action as ingratitude.
5. European Security Anxiety and NATO Realignment
Timestamps: 20:56 – 24:22
- Listener question: Can Europe face Russia one-on-one if Trump withdraws support?
- Richard and Yalda underscore that while Europe is facing up to this reality, it cannot "just wake up and build a pan-European army." The logistics, spending, and political will are not yet in place.
- Richard:
"The infrastructure doesn’t exist. Europeans...have relied on NATO...Now they're wondering, can Trump and this...organization really be counted on?" (20:56)
- Richard:
- Poland’s Article 4 invocation (not Article 5) signals growing urgency—NATO is being tested, but true collective military response hasn’t been triggered.
6. Russia, China, North Korea: Global Alignment
Timestamps: 22:26 – 24:22
- Yalda notes the global strategic shift: Russia, China, and North Korea overtly showing unity, with their leaders standing together, sending a message about the new world order.
- Ukraine’s future seen as uncertain, caught in the struggle for influence between East and West.
7. Zelenskyy’s Message to the Russian People
Timestamps: 29:27 – 31:00
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When asked directly, Zelenskyy expresses near despair about reaching the Russian public:
"It's difficult to have messages to people without ears. They don't want to hear. They live in their fish tank.... What is terrible, young people think the same way. This is their young faces, but they are really old people...They are not free...So that's why. What to say to them if they don't want to hear." (Zelenskyy, 29:27)
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Richard responds:
"He didn’t have that message of hope. He doesn’t believe that it’s just Putin, he says this is Russia...he feels nobody’s listening. Trump’s not listening. The Europeans listen. They talk, but haven’t been able to act yet. And the Russians, he’s like, there’s no hope from them." (31:00)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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Zelenskyy on Russian public mentality:
"They live in their fish tank. ... Young people think the same way. This is their young faces, but they are really old people." (29:27)
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Richard Engel on escalation:
"800...next time...1200. And it looks like it's heading in that direction." (06:41)
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Yalda on Zelenskyy's plea:
"He wanted to tell Donald Trump: you have the power to stop Putin, you have the power to sell me more air defense systems, and you can and should act now." (07:25)
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Analysis on Trump-Putin meeting:
"He doesn’t say, yes I think Trump shouldn’t have hosted Vladimir Putin in Alaska ... but then he goes on to list all the reasons why Putin got more out of it than Trump." (Richard, 10:17)
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Zelenskyy's exhaustion:
"I’m ready to meet with President Trump and Putin. But I’m ready to meet without any kind of conditions." (11:41)
Important Timestamps and Topics
- 00:38 – 01:04: The scale of Russian drone incursions into Poland.
- 02:47 – 07:25: Yalda’s first impressions of Zelenskyy’s mood; walkthrough of damage in Kyiv.
- 07:25 – 11:06: Zelenskyy’s focus on Trump, message to the West, frustration at U.S. inaction.
- 14:55 – 15:24: Zelenskyy’s appeal for air defense, skepticism about European unity.
- 20:56 – 22:26: Listener question: Europe’s ability to defend itself without U.S. support.
- 24:22 – 28:46: Global power alignments; Ukraine’s place in an unstable order.
- 29:27 – 31:00: Zelenskyy’s bleak view of Russian society and prospects for changing minds.
Takeaways
- Zelenskyy feels increasingly isolated and desperate, seeing minimal prospects for changed U.S. policy under Trump and limited European capability to fill the gap.
- The scale and frequency of Russian drone attacks are escalating, posing an acute risk not just for Ukraine but for NATO stability.
- European strategic autonomy is a long way off; for now, anxiety and stopgap increases in defense spending are the norm.
- Russia’s government—and, in Zelenskyy’s eyes, much of its society—remains deeply hostile to Ukraine’s sovereignty.
- Ukraine’s leadership is shifting tone: once resolutely hopeful, now more somber, indignant, and sometimes resigned.
Closing Thoughts
This episode offers a candid, revealing look at the psychological and political pressures on Ukraine’s leadership as Western support wavers and the war’s human toll mounts. Zelenskyy’s direct, almost hopeless address to both Russian citizens and Western allies serves as a stark warning and a plea—one Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim passionately dissect and place in the larger context of shifting world alliances.