A (3:11)

We we have two separate indictments today. I've sat down and read them both. Indictment number one charges a whole bunch of people, including Terry Rozier on sort of an inside betting scheme tied to prop bets in the NBA. You and I talked about prop bets a year or so ago about Johnte Porter. These prop bets are just an absolute menace. And the other indictment talks about Chauncey Billups and his participation in rigged poker games that have mafia links where he and Damon Jones, a former assistant coach for the Cavaliers and the Lakers at one point and a former NBA player obviously are the quote, unquote face cards used by criminals to get unwitting victims to come play in rigged poker games rigged with all sorts of crazy technology like card card readers, rigged shufflers and all of that. And the key claim there is that allegedly Chauncey Billups and Damon Jones know that they are part of and in one case organizing rigged poker games. I don't know, man. Where do you want to start? There's actually more connections between the two indictments than I thought there would be when I actually sat down and read them. Including, including Chauncey Billups. But where would you. Where should we start? This is your world more than mine.

B (4:21)

I think we should start by first kind of defining the lines between what is game manipulation, like actually rigging NBA games and what is sharing inside information. I feel like that's an important distinction. There are seven games that were mentioned in the indictment. This is the sports betting indictment that resolves some sort of suspicious betting or insider betting, insider information sharing. And three of those, two of them were the John Tay Porter games. He removes himself from the game after playing only a few minutes so that his conspirators can win their bets on the under honest statistics. And then the other one is the Terry Rozier game from March of 2023. He was with the Hornets at the time he's playing the Pelicans. According to the indictment, he revealed to one of his childhood friends that he was not going to be playing very long in this game. He was not listed on the injury report. Soon as that happened, all this money started coming in on the under on Rosier's props, under on his points, under on his rebounds, under on his assists. And then when that happened, sportsbooks halted wagering on him at a time. Then eventually the game came about. He took himself after playing around nine to 10 minutes. So all those wagers won. Now, the indictment revealed some new information about that, that his childhood friend and him actually met back up at Rosier's house in Charlotte about a week after that game. To count the money, as it says.

A (5:45)

In the indictment, I've never. I've never sat down and counted money like that. And so you're distinguishing that from the sharing of inside information, which is an important distinction because also in the indictment are at least, I think, two, actually three or four instances of somebody. Well, let's just take them one by one. Two of them involve tanking at the end of an NBA season, and they're all part of the same indictment. So they all share at least some characters between the. In this wagering scheme. The first one is a March 2023 Blazers game. And it says co conspirator number eight told a defendant named Eric Ernest, who's a guy who comes up in both this one and the poker game, one, notably, that the trailblazers are going to be tanking. I intentionally losing to increase their odds of getting a better pick in the draft. And then people place bets on the Blazers not covering the spread in that game. Co conspirator number eight. Okay, that makes me go back and read who co conspirator number eight is. He's not named in this. In this gambling indictment. Co conspirator number eight, though, is identified as, quote, an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury and a resident of Oregon. Co conspirator number eight was an NBA player from approximately 1997 through 2014 and an NBA coach since at least 2021. That sure sounds like Chauncey Billups, who is named in the poker indictment as well. And so we have here is Chauncey Billups telling this guy, Eric Ernest, I don't know who this dude is, but he apparently knows Tara Rozier's friends and Terra Rozier, and he also knows Chauncey Billups. Hey, telling Chauncey, telling a friend, hey, man, just man, I guess we're tanking tonight. You know, maybe. Maybe he's bitching about the GM or the ownership forcing him to tank and he's just venting to a friend and then bets are taken on that friend on that information. Similarly, there's an Orlando Magic game. If I can get my sheet of paper out here, I want to read this to you verbatim. Orlando Magic played the Cavaliers about two weeks later, April 6, 2023. A defendant named Marvis Fairley. I don't know who that is, but he's all over in this indictment. And co conspirator number one, who I think I can figure out who that is because it's a part time NBA player. That player, he's identified as a player, knows a player on the Magic, knows a one of a player who's described as one of the Magic's regularly starting players. Player two, an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury, blah, blah blah. That player, a regular starter for the Magic, tells co conspirator number one, hey man, we're, we're sitting our entire starting five tonight, we're trying to lose this game. Co conspirator number one tells these gamblers bets are made. That's the sharing of inside information. And it's a weird, I don't know if this is, I'm out of my depth in the gambling world. It would seem natural to me that when you work for an NBA team or play for an NBA team, you're gonna have people in your life that you're gonna be like, man, I guess I'm sitting out tonight or you know, don't, hey, don't come to the, you know, tell your wife, hey, I'm not, looks like I'm not playing tonight, blah, blah. But you know, the fact that the guy that Chauncey is telling this information to, that we're going to tank this game is also mentioned in connection with Rozier and is also mentioned in the poker thing is, is interesting to me to say the least. Right?

B (9:08)

Oh, absolutely. And I believe he mentions that we're not going to play some of our regular players in that game as well. That's co conspirator number eight who is playing career and coaching career matches up with Chauncey. So while Chauncey was not named in that second indictment, which is more centered on sports betting, he was mentioned and named as a defendant in the poker one certainly seems to be that he had some relationships with some of these guys. This gambling ring, who I've been following for about a year and a half now, originally started learning about them with college basketball and then they started popping up with some of the same accounts placing these weird bets on the Rogier on the Jontay Porter. So it's been something very interesting to follow. I don't think this story is anywhere close to over. I think we're going to get some more stuff out of college basketball pretty soon, and it wouldn't be surprising if some more people in the NBA, whether current or former players are named.

A (10:04)

I'm going to come back to that and put a pin in that. Current and former players. But then you have this. Lakers games on February 9th and January 15th, 2024. Damon Jones is mentioned here. Damon Jones. They talk about how he played and coached for the Cavaliers and the Lakers. Said during many of those years, Jones was a teammate or a coach of a prominent NBA player by virtue of his relationship with that player, blah, blah, blah. He had access to information and he tells people in his life. On February 9, he texts Get a big bet on Milwaukee tonight. Milwaukee's playing the Lakers before the information is out. Player 3. The prominent player is out tonight. Bet enough so that D. Jones him can eat two. That there only can be one or two players who that is. LeBron James did not play in that February 9, 2023 game. No one is implying that LeBron James has anything to do with anybody. It's not Even clear if LeBron James himself told Damon Jones, hey, I'm out tonight. They're friends. It's a natural thing. You would. This is the gray area that I'm talking about is like, it's natural to have these kind of conversations with people in your life. And then you can't control where that information goes. So what am I to do? Like, there's just no way the NBA can. You can't. NBA can't go to people say you can't tell anyone in your life anything about anything anymore.

B (11:23)

Yeah, you're right. It's a very difficult spot. But we know that they should not be relaying it to people they know are going to bet. Now, we don't think LeBron did that with Damon Jones, but Damon Jones clearly had some nefarious ideas here, according to that text message and the indictment. So what are they supposed to do? Well, they got to be very clear and transparent on those injury reports. Rozier, in that March 2023 game, he was not listed on the game before and was telling people they believe we got to make sure that that stuff is accurate. And as well, I know that's a trouble spot. Just yesterday we had Cat go out say he was going to Be doubtful and then he's upgraded to questionable and then all of a sudden he's going to play. It's always going to be an issue, but we just have to make sure and monitor as close as we can and get rid of the nefarious actors.

C (12:11)

Right.

B (12:12)

If guys are doing this, passing it along to people they know are gamblers, first of all, they're going to get caught. Because now in the days of regulation we see these unusual betting spikes that come in, hey, why are people betting on John Tay Porter? You know, nobody's betting on John Tay Porter except when there's something kind of untoward going on so they're going to get caught. If you're going to try to pull something off like this and just hopefully this acts as a deterrent.

A (12:38)

I am just curious about these sort of the natural leak of information. Right. I don't know what to do with that. I'm going to be honest with you. Like an Orlando Magic player telling a friend, man, fuck, we're tanking tonight, man. I was looking for, I wanted to score 30 tonight or whatever, like that's a, that, like that's a natural thing. And I can't know where that information is going. I'm trying to think of a parallel to this in like the non sports world. I guess insider training would be the obvious one, but that's, that's, that's apples to oranges.

B (13:10)

I agree, but there is a line, right? I, I don't think it's this player relaying it to his friend, but once that friend takes it to known gamblers and knows that they're going to use it for their betting advantage. That's a clear line, right? We know that thing, so maybe we don't punish the players for that, but anybody that knows and takes this to a known gambler, who's going to do this. Yeah, I mean, you got to get that person out of the league.

A (13:34)

Well, John De Porter is out of the league, right. Terry Rozier's lawyer released a statement to Pablo Torre and others today saying essentially like, we disagree with this, we've cooperated, blah, blah, blah. So we'll see what happens with Terry, Roger. But it's very clear, like if you are caught in the middle of this, knowingly, knowingly, you're going to get banned from the league. Chauncey Billups has been placed on leave. By the way. Thiago Splitter is now the acting head coach of the Portland Trailblazers. If any of the. We haven't even talked about the poker stuff. Yet if any of this stuff is substantiated, I, I would find it very likely that Chauncey's career in the NBA is over. It doesn't seem recoverable to me. By the way, I interviewed Chauncey Billups a week ago about Scoot Henderson. Everything was completely normal, blah, blah, blah. What was I saying? Oh, look, I, look, I know everyone's in bed with the sports gambling companies. Like, I don't gamble on sports. I've never placed a bet on any of these gambling platforms. It's just not something I would do. I'm also not naive to like, who sponsors this podcast? Who sponsors the Ringers podcast? Who sponsors all, like, we're all, we're all complicit in some ways. I don't know how else to just be more bald faced about it than that. But like, it's just a freaking mess, man. I don't know what the NBA has to do to clean this up. It's one thing to say these prop bets need to be just vaporized. Like, and we've talked about that before, you just shouldn't be able to bet on like random role players doing X, Y and Z in these games. That's one thing. It just seems like there's a mess, there's just a larger mess here. And this is before we get to gamblers harassing coaches and players about their performance. And you cost me money. That's, that's an inevitable byproduct. I don't know there's anything you can do about that. But man, it, what you, you said like, you wouldn't be surprised if there's more names that come out.

B (15:14)

Sure, I wouldn't. I think that especially the ones that are running around in the poker circles, there were athletes definitely playing in these games more than just the ones that were named. I think we'll hear about them eventually. So it wouldn't surprise me at all. And you're right. I mean, it's a mess right now. It's a mess right now. However, would we have known about this if all this was still done in an underground sports book with the local bookmaker or with an offshore? Probably not. Okay, so we have one turn, one way we're seeing the visibility into the market. We're able to see these things and catch these guys and hopefully net people will notice that now, hey, we're going to get caught. If we try to do something like this, it'll end our career. And they don't. The other side of it is you mentioned all the prop Bets and Commissioner Silver is just on our network the other day talking about his concern about the prop bets. And I am a little concerned too, because the betting menus on these prop bets are too big. There are too many offerings. You can move the over, under, on points, down or up to whichever you want to, and they're on every player and they're on first baskets and they're on all these things. I figure that, that betting menus just open up opportunities for people to try this. They almost incentivize you to try it. It's not only the offerings of the bets, but it's the betting limits that they're taking on. These things that are so easily to try to manipulate. If we were to offer whatever you want, but you're only going to be able to bet 20 bucks on this and you're not going to be able to parlay it. So I think there are things that the sports betting industry can do on the same thing. I think the sports industry has done a job, their job here in terms of identifying it and getting these guys caught.

A (16:57)

You're making me remember the baseball thing from a couple of months ago where I believe it was a Cleveland Guardians pitcher. It was, the bet was the first pitch will be a ball or a strike or something and he threw the ball five feet outside. It's like. And what you're saying is the Adam Silver argument has long been the sort of sunshine transparency argument of bringing this all into the light will make it policeable. And in that theory, I guess right now we'd be going through the sort of inevitable 5 to 10 year learning curve of yeah, this is really policeable. People will figure out that because it's regulated and policeable, you are going to get caught. And when you get caught, you're going to be banned. And that will have a chilling effect on anyone doing it anymore. I guess the flip side would be it's, it's actually now so widespread that maybe the sunshine alone is not a solution and maybe this is just not a 5 to 10 year learning curve at where that will be quelled. But the new reality, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that, but there's a lot going on, man. Your beat is not going to be like. I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't know. I don't even. I'm not even asking a question. I'm just saying those are, those seems to be the two kind of prevailing schools of thought.

B (18:03)

You know, this has been 2018 is when they legalized sports betting right before then. You would maybe get a link about the opening line for the Super bowl on ESPN.com about. It was probably half a year ago. There's what, six or seven headlines on the news? The stack for the Top headlines on ESPN.com four of them dealt with betting scandals. It was like half. And it was all these different ones that were going on. College, NBA, Major League Baseball, NFL, you name it, they've all been touched by these scandals. Hopefully it will slow down a little bit and people will learn, like you mentioned, that you are going to get caught and that you will end your career. And in some of these cases, you're going to serve big time jail time. But right now it's a mess.

A (18:54)

Turning to the poker one, that, that's, that is you. You are focused on the kind of sports betting that we're talking about right now. Is this your world at all or is that also like, you know, not that you play, but is that even something that's been a. Like mafia rigged poker games, infrared playing cards, all this stuff? It just seems crazy to me, but I guess this is going on.

B (19:14)

There's been an overlap in the poker world and the betting scandals for quite a while. It went back to Johnson Porter. A lot of people said he got in debt through poker.

C (19:23)

But you're right.

B (19:24)

Some of these things that they do to manipulate these poker games, automatic shufflers that they can control and then relay the information to somebody who can see all the cards and they feed it back. There was a story about people wearing such tiny magnets in their ear that were transmitters that you would have to take them out. The transmitters in there, you'd have to take them out with a magnet. You stick it in there and get it took to pull it out because it was so small. So the sophistication of these things that are going on, it is wild.

A (19:53)

Yeah. And just to be clear, just to read a sentence out of the poker indictment, which is a different one, and how it relates to Chauncey Billups, this is the one he's actually named and he's not named, remember in the NBA gambling one. He's just sort of pseudo identified. This is from the poker one, for example. In furtherance of the rigged poker scheme in or around April 2019, six years ago, several of the defendants participated in rigged games in Las Vegas, Nevada, in which they defrauded victims of at least $50,000. By the way, there's victims here who lost six figures. This is, this is chump change compared to that the defendants, Chauncey Billups, Eric Ernest, who again is the guy who is informed that the Blazers are going to tank games and is connected to Terry Rozier. In other cases, the defendants Chauncey Billups, Eric Earnest, Jamie Gillette, Robert Stroud and Sophia. Yeah. Organized and participated in these rigged games using a rigged shuffling machine supplied by Stroud. So you can see a world in which Chauncey and Damon Jones and other quote, they call them, quote, face cards. The celebrities who are there to draw the fish into the game would argue, well, we didn't know. We thought we were being invited to an honest poker. And we like playing being poker, we like being big shots. The allegation is that they indeed knew everything that was going on and we'll see if that is borne out. But again, there are characters who appear in both of these indictments and that was what was sort of most interesting to me.

B (21:16)

Yeah, like I said, there's a huge overlap in the poker community in the sports betting world. People that are professional poker players are also known as advantage players in sports betting. They're very good at getting the information before everybody else and putting it into the play, into the market before everybody else. There's always been an overlap for athletes that like playing cards. They do it openly. On the World Series of Poker, you've seen guys play out there. So again, the overlap in this between poker and sports betting is going to be one to follow for sure. And I think it will be the reveal some of these other names that we're waiting for.

A (21:53)

Yeah, again, it's one thing if you're talking about sort of semi. No, not semi honest decisions by teams that just get out into the world before they get out into the public that were sitting players, that this player is hurt, that whatever it is. And we can talk about tanking on a. This is just yet another consequence of having a reverse order or semi. Reverse order weighted lottery, whatever is that these kind of things can happen at the end of a season. That's distinct from guys just manipulating their own performance to, to help betters or help themselves earn money. That just gets it. Like that gets at the integrity of sports. And once if you lose that on a larger scale, you've lost the sport. But we're not even close to there. Obviously it's easy for me to be like if you're in the NBA, if you're in professional sports, just don't bet on sports. How about you just don't. Just don't do it. It's easy for me to Say that because I don't bet on sports. I, and these people are making enormous amounts of money. Why do they need to bet on sports? But we've also seen that it's a very addictive and fun thing for people. And once you get into it, I mean I've had friends who have lost marriages to it. Like I've seen it up close. It's hard to stop once you start and you know it is legal and, and it's, and some of these guys do run in like to debt problems that they try to climb out of in, in counterproductive ways. Just like regular people outside of sports make mistakes to like pile mistake on top of mistakes. So it's easy for me to say that it should like I like if you play sports, if you play pro sports, you just shouldn't bet on it. But it's, it's, it's, I guess not that simple. And it's sort of naive of anyone like me to just sort of get on my lectern and tisk, tisk people like that.

B (23:51)

It's hard to imagine though, I mean these guys, how much did Rosie make? 100 billion inverse career and he was willing to do this for how much ever money they got maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars down for his share. I, I mean it is dumbfounding to me. I will say though, to your point about addiction, when somebody is battling addiction and not betting within responsibly within their means, you're not making good decisions at that point, right? You're in the thralls of an addiction and, and it is impacting your judgment. So you're making decisions that are just.

C (24:23)

Not very good ones.

A (24:24)

And to your earlier point, you know, we're 100 plus years into gambling, chipping away into sports in one way or another. And in the case of the Black Sox, sort of, you know, chipping away at the integrity of a World Series in 1919, more than 100 years ago. So it's not like a new, new, new phenomenon. But it is the kind of thing where it's like if I'm Adam Silver, I want to get everyone in a room and just say like delete all your accounts. You don't, you just like, you're just like bright line. This is just not something you need to be participating in.

B (24:57)

Yeah, I completely agree. You shouldn't joke about sports betting if you're playing sports, you shouldn't place bets on them if you're playing sports, you should just stay completely away from it.

A (25:06)

But again, that's one Thing. But you know, telling your friend who has a friend who has a friend, you know, that your knee hurts or something is something distinct from that and pretty innocent to me.

C (25:20)

Yeah.

A (25:21)

What, what am I not asking you? What should I be asking you that we haven't touched on? Just another why it feels like we're gonna have a wild day like this every other year. But this is going to be. If it's the end of a head coach and hall of Fame players career in the NBA, this is going to be a before and after day in. In the history of sports and gambling and basketball.

B (25:41)

When we started hearing a coach was involved, I knew that this was going to be way bigger than if Terry Rogier had just been arrested on this. We've been reporting Ontario would have been a big deal. But once we started hearing a coach and then when you start thinking about the co conspirator number eight that we talked about at the beginning of this, this is a guy that is transmitting information not only saying we're tanking because if you follow basketball, you follow the league, you know which teams are out of it and you know, just playing for draft pick status. But he was relaying injury information. And so this person had insight into guys that were not going to play before they were listed on the interior report. And the process was relay it to a gambler. Now think about.

A (26:29)

You could say he may not have known, he was just relaying it to a friend. Now this friend happens to be mentioned in the poker indictment as well. But let's give the ultimate benefit of that. Say he's just gossiping to a friend.

B (26:41)

Sure, sure.

C (26:44)

Yeah.

B (26:44)

It doesn't look good.

A (26:48)

What else have I, have I. Have I been derelict in not asking something else about any of this? We barely. Again, the poker is the one that Chauncey has been arrested and charged. Charged with the other stuff. He's just, he's not charged with anything. It just has mentioned that someone matching his description told a guy with connections to the gambling world that the Blazers were tanking. That particular.

C (27:08)

That's correct.

B (27:09)

No, I think you did a good job. I just want to re emphasize that I believe there is a clear distinction that should be made between sharing of inside information that allows better and then actual players participating in schemes to go out there and manipulate their performance. I think that's a big, big deal. And right now we've only seen that in two instances. Three games total, two players. Where the rest of this stuff, what seems to be sharing of inside information.

A (27:36)

All right, David Purdom You've got a lot to do today. Thank you for making a little time for us at the Zach Low Show. We'll see you down the road. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. Everyone loves a good comeback story. Like when Michael Jordan broke his foot in 85, then returned that same season and set a new record for most points scored in a postseason game. Another comeback that's just as exciting. The Scout Traveler and Scout Terra are returning new and improved with four wheel drive and a projected 1000 pound feet of torque. Join the waitlist@scoutmotors.com concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. All right, first change of pace. We're going to talk about basketball that was played on the basketball court. Blake Griffin is here, six time all star. I'm going to say it. Future NBA hall of Famer, Rookie of the Year, current Amazon analyst guru. I don't know what you are, what your title is, but I look forward to this great crew you've got going on Amazon. And thanks for coming on, buddy.

D (28:40)

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Glad to be on.

A (28:43)

Last time I saw you, we were reliving one of the lowest moments of your career.

D (28:48)

Yeah, man.

A (28:49)

Watching game Game 6 of the 2015 Western Conference Semifinals together. We won't talk about that though. That was a tough. That was a tough one for you.

D (28:56)

That was fun. I imagine when you asked me to come on the pod, it was like, hey, we're just going to talk about you getting traded to Detroit. That's just going to be the topic for today.

A (29:05)

We were going to go a little longer today. Then there was some big breaking news. So let's just. I thought a simple way to just. You and I have been binging all the games, as many games as we can. There were a million last night. We're recording this Thursday afternoon. A good way to get off some of our early season first impressions, overreactions, whatever would be. Let's just. Now that we've had a game to watch, almost every team, let's pick our top six in each conference. I haven't done that actually in order. And then we'll just sort of riff a little bit. So we're going to start with the superior conference, the one you spent most of your career in, the Western Conference, Blake Griffin's top six. We don't have to go through the play in to get into the playoffs in the Western Conference. Let's go.

D (29:45)

I've got the pretty obvious Oklahoma City Thunder. I mean, I think they got better last year from, from last year just by the simple fact that they have experience of a deep, the deepest playoff run you could possibly have. Chat looks good. Kason Wallace looked good. They didn't have jab. Like, they just have guys that you're just like, yeah, they, they got it. You know, and. And barring injuries, I think they're. They're the heavy favorite. So let's go Oklahoma City. Do you want to go rapid fire here? Okay. Okay. Six, Oklahoma City. I got Denver, I got Houston, Minnesota Warriors, Clippers.

A (30:25)

Okay, we have the same six in a different order.

D (30:29)

What do you have?

A (30:31)

Say your. Say yours again. It was.

D (30:32)

It was Oklahoma City.

A (30:34)

Okay.

D (30:35)

Denver, Houston, Minnesota Warriors, Clippers.

A (30:41)

Okay. I have Oklahoma City number one. It's a no brainer. And I don't think they actually looked great against Houston in the first game without. They look like a team who needed their second best offensive player. But everything that I saw from Chet was everything I expected to see from Chet in what is basically his second season or third season, rather, making a leap like that. Kayson Wallace I've mentioned many times is like a sleeper most improved player candidate for me and just awesome game all around. Denver number two. They're another no brainer for me. I just think they levitate above the rest of these teams. I went warriors number three.

D (31:21)

Wow. Really?

A (31:22)

I thought. I thought they looked awesome against the Lakers, who neither of us have pointedly. By the way, Draymond, congratulations. I was at the Knicks Cavs game last night and someone who was there was like de Draymond. Has anyone looked up whether that was the mo. The quickest in season? Technical foul from a player who was not even in the game. That has to be the record for quickest bench guy Getting. Getting attack.

D (31:44)

Oh, bench guy. 100%. Was it. Were we. Were we six minutes in?

A (31:49)

About. About. About six minutes in. I don't even know what. He was mad. I think he was. He was right. Whatever he was mad about was right. And the technical free throw is missed and he went all bald. Don't lie. Okay. I just thought they looked awesome. For Minnesota, starting divincenzo over Conley is a move I hinted at on this podcast last week. Conley playing only 13 minutes and looking, eh, kind of concerned me a little bit. DiVincenzo can kind of concern me a little bit, but I like Jalen Clark, I like Terence Shannon. They're just rock solid. They go in at four Houston, let's talk about. You had them third, I have them fifth and then I have the Clippers six and boy, will we talk about that. What did you see from Houston in an opening game loss at Oklahoma City that encouraged you, worried you. Whatever the right. What did you, what did you notice?

D (32:35)

I. I'm going to start with worried me. They're just lack of ball handling. I, I thought Oklahoma City. The good news is there's probably not another team that can pressure you as much as Oklahoma City. The bad news is you have to beat Oklahoma City if you want to win a championship. So like they're going to have to see them in the playoffs. Now that's not going to be a continuous problem is the ball handling in the regular season as much as it is against Oklahoma City. So I was kind of hoping to see Reed shepherd, you know, get some good minutes, be able to handle the ball defensively. It looked a little rough out there at times. I love him in Thompson, absolutely love him. And Sengun is a joy to watch. So just the fact that like those three guys, those, those two with Kevin Durant not in Jabari, like you have a really solid team, you have a great coach and that's, that's kind of what I'm banging on. And they, and they, you know, they played a tough game. So I, I was encouraged by some things. The glaring lack of ball handling I think is going to come up to bite them if they don't. If they don't find somebody to fill that void.

A (33:43)

Look, I was pushing back from second one on this idea that Fred Van Vliet's injury was, quote, a blessing in disguise for them. I just didn't buy it, despite how excited I am for Amin Thompson and for Reed Shepard, who. But again, defensively, he can make plays like his hand on the ball. He can, he can. He get strips and even shot blocks. But in space was a little rough. Shen Goon, just a little fun snap for you. Shen Goon ran 15 pick and rolls in that game as the ball handler. Something you know a lot about inverted pick and rolls. Blake Griffin, amazing 15. His previous career high. His previous high in any of the last two seasons was five. So that was a sea change and I think indicative of how much they needed him to do stuff. Amen. Looked awesome and I wonder if they win that game if he can stay in it. And he had instead he had that whatever that lower body injury had to come out and they would when they were clearing the floor for him and they would have Adams Come up at like, Amen would have the ball in the right wing. Adams would come up to set an off ball screen for kd. Way high on the floor to clear everybody out. Like, they couldn't do anything with Amin Thompson. He was scoring at will, but it just looked a little rough. The offensive rating was bad. Durant's workload worried me. And that was one of the things I said right when Van Vliet got hurt going against the blessing in disguise thing was like, there's going to be a temptation to overwork Kevin Durant in the first 30 games of the season, and they cannot do that. Can Adams keep this up? I mean, what a story. He. He's like sprinting coast to coast on rim runs, getting every officer but this guy. This guy looked broken a year and a half ago. Can he keep it up? They do miss Finney Smith. I don't know. It was a. It's just a little clunky. Tari Eason looked skittish and just. But I still think they're just a. Everyone three to eight and maybe they have probably three days. Gonna be pretty bunched up, maybe three to nine. So, like, it's three, four, five, whatever. I just think Houston is pretty rock solid. Should we talk about the Clip?

D (35:44)

Sorry. You had Houston fifth. No, fifth. Okay, Okay.

A (35:49)

I had Minnesota fourth, Houston fifth. You had Minnesota fourth, and Golden State fifth. So we just flipped Houston and Golden State and we both had the Clippers sixth. Okay. Extremely problematic opening game from the Clippers getting boat raced by Utah.

D (36:06)

Yeah.

A (36:07)

Discouraging opening game for the Lakers and a holy shit. Opening game for Victor Wembanyama. And I'm like, I'm a week away from vaulting the spurs into the top six over the Clippers. And I mean, I don't just talk about Wembanyama. That's why I really just want to hear you talk about Wembanyama. Because that game, that was everything anyone could have asked for out of him on both ends of the floor.

D (36:35)

When I started seeing clips of Women Yama and then I saw like, really, like a highlight package of him when he was still overseas. I remember this was like around 20, 23, you know, he was. Whatever was coming up. My last year in the NBA, I remember seeing like, some real highlights. And I've been to Victor. Womenyama is going to enter the draft, called my agent. I was like, I think it's time. I think. I think we hang it up. I think it's been a good run. I mean, this guy like, listen, we can and everybody does. We can go on about his height, his handle, his shot blocking, his touch, his shooting ability. Like, everybody talks about that. Everybody sees it. Last night was a perfect display. Some of the otherworldly things he does. I think what was almost just as impressive, if not more, is his mentality. Like, this kid seems so focused. He's going and working out with Monks in the off season. He's spending time with Elijah on. He's spending time with kg. Every interview you see of him is thoughtful. It's like his focus on, like, who he wants to be and how great he wants to be is by far first and foremost in his life. I can't think of another superstar or somebody with this potential that has this type of focus and drive. So that's just like my big Wimby piece. On top of that, like, he has made strides, like in. In two years from now when his hips get even stronger, when he gets a little bit more to his, like, upper body frame. Now some of these spin moves that he's doing, you know, he's spinning and he's still getting up there. He's still finishing over or slinging out a pass. I feel like in two years, three years. I was talking about this with Steve Nash last night. Like, those are just going to all be dunks. Like his, his ceiling. He's already so good in his ceiling. I don't. I don't know where it is.

A (38:27)

The handle last night was. Was noticeably not just tighter, but like faster. Like the pitter, pat, speed, dribble. He had that coast to coast, lefty in and out dribble blow by Anthony Davis. Not some chump and dunk. He had the, like, dance with the ball. He did the chef. He did the chef thing after he fell over and hit the three. And then that post up against P.J. washington when he up faked him and then went up and under for the reverse. My favorite part of that was he. He got PJ Washington thinking a little. He got. He got pj. He got in his head before he even got the ball by faking the old, like Shaq or used to even do this sometimes spin back for the lob. Zion does it sometimes. Like, he faked a spin to the baseline for the lob and PJ bid on it. And from that, from that moment on, Victor had him in his bag. And then he had one dunk against the. The Mavs were playing zone. And he got the ball at like the right elbow, took one dribble, two steps and was. And went up to dunk. And you could see him be like, am I gonna hit my head on the backboard? Have I gotten too far underneath? It was just an absolutely bonkers performance across the board.

D (39:40)

There was also a dunk last night where he was like, he was on the way down for a long time and still just dunked it. I can't remember what. I think it was a rip. It was a rip left and he kind of just went up and he's so far away and it's, it's great. It's just weird to see like somebody go to their peak and then three seconds later they're still, they're still, they still have the ability to dunk it. I, I agree. His handle to me tight is just like, it's the, the speed and the, and the control. Right. Like before, he had a good handle, but it felt loose. You know what I mean? And people weren't necessarily ripping him, but his handle was all within here, you know, instead of. His arms are so long putting it out here. I thought he was unbelievable last night and obviously, like, there was some highlight plays, but man, that kid. The spurs also have a really light first 15 games. 17 games, I think 15. They're 17. Or against possibly non playoff teams. So that kind of give that. That's another reason I would like to be so close to putting them in the top six because I just think they're going to have some Runway to really work some things out and, you know, take off with a, with a really good, with a really good record this season.

A (40:58)

Yeah. Listeners will know I have been way higher on the spurs than consensus since July when they, when they sort of wrapped their off season drafted Harper, who I thought looked pretty, pretty damn good last night. I think more. I don't think Dallas was aggressive enough daring all the spurs perimeter guys other than Vsell to just shoot. And I think other teams will take. Take a little bit of a bigger step back against Harper and against Castle, who also looked like. Castle is so explosive. He's one of those guys who gets the ball and goes up like in, in space and goes up to the rim and it feels like he's still going up.

D (41:33)

Just keeps going.

A (41:34)

Yeah, yeah, he just keeps going up. And the defender is like falling backwards. When he picked dlo, that was just not a great DLO moment. They, and I, I, I do think their lack of shooting is, is sometimes going to be problematic, but they played super fast last night. They ex. They like ran their cuts super fast. They screened super fast. Harper got a nice Slot, cut basket, which is going to be important for him. Playing off the ball, finding a way to punish teams who kind of don't respect his three off the ball. Same with Castle. I just really like the way they play.

D (42:05)

We, we didn't even see a deer. The Fox Wimby pick and roll. No, Fox. Fox even increases that speed. And I agree that the three point shooting will be an issue at times, but man, when you have somebody like when we like, are you ever out of a game?

A (42:20)

Well, that's been my thing. It's like the guy's just going to be so good. Like, I just, I, I'm very close to just jumping them into the top six already. And I think Fox is obviously going to help them. So Hand didn't play Cornet. Cornette is a game changer for them. Having a legit backup center who can also play a little bit with Wembanyama, which you saw last night, that's a big, big deal. He was really good for them.

D (42:45)

Huge. He's been great. I, I, I'm, I'm a big Cornett fan. He just, he's just a guy knows his role plays. Exactly. You know, there was that, those moments when you see him catch that kind of at the elbow and they're back completely off and he's not even thinking, but he's like, nope, I'm just going to go to that next thing, go find that DHL screen role he's doing. He will, he will play his exact role, which I think is perfect next to Wemby. And the fact that Wemby is 76 and Luke Cornett's 71 and they can play together is terrifying.

A (43:14)

Yeah. I mean, the defensive stuff, it just, it goes without saying. And he looks even more confident in his positioning and the way he can really scare people when they come to the lane. But just by, just by stunting at them and getting back to his guy. He disrupted a couple of lobs last night. Like Flag had one that he just. No shot. First impressions of the Dallas Mavericks and Cooper Flag.

D (43:38)

I. So to be honest, I didn't get to watch a ton of that game. I was kind of watching. We had this Amazon dinner last night, so we were kind of watching on our phones, just kind of in awe. I just thought they just looked flat. I thought defensively they looked like they were discombobulated. It's funny, Sean Sweeney going from, from Dallas to San Antonio. I was talking to him the other week and he was just talking about sort of implementing sort of that same Thing it truly looked like Dallas lost their defense, their main defensive coach, and it look like he went right to San Antonio. I thought, I thought their defensive schemes were just, they were. They were just off again. Flag first game. I think he's great. I love his preseason stuff. I love his ceiling. But San Antonio was just. They just, they outworked him in every, every aspect.

A (44:29)

I was slightly eh On Dallas when it came down to it before the season I did Bills. I mean it's a funny day to say it, but it's on the public record. There's no way for me to avoid the language. I did Bill's over under podcast last week and Dallas's line was either 41 and a half or 40 and a half. And I took the under and there were two reasons I took the under. Big picture. If the season goes sideways, they seem like a let's veer toward the top of the draft kind of team. But that's a big picture. Little picture was everything I saw last night. I was just worried their offense was going to be a little like eh, a little stuck in the mud, a little clunky. Playing these huge lineups with Flag, Davis and Lively who I love, or Gafford who didn't play, or Powell who inexplicably played a lot until he wasn't playing anymore. And that's kind of like it just. There wasn't a lot of. Without Kyrie and without a point guard in the starting lineup and then with DLO not really playing very well to be kind as a backup to the point that they then go to Brandon Williams and Jaden Hardy. It just kind of seemed directionless and, and defenders are going to go under on flag. They're going to switch on flag, both sides, directions. Like we don't, we don't think you can bully our guards. We think you're going to settle for fadeaways. He did in the first half. In the second he beat up champagne on a couple post ups. I thought that was encouraging. And we don't think you can beat our centers off the dribble if we take a step away from you and dare you to shoot. And that all kind of bore out in the first game. It's only one game. It's a long season. There's 81 left. But. But they just kind of looked like oh wow, they, they need Kyrie or somebody like that even more than anticipated.

D (46:15)

Yeah, I think that was, I think that the offensively that was like glaring to me. They're one of those teams in sort of the same way like Philly where it's just like they could, they could win 41 games, they could win 20 games. Health depending. I mean clay eight. We know how much AD is in and out of the lineup. Kyrie depends on when he comes back. I think you're right. If things go bad, it could, it could get bad quickly.

A (46:42)

Well, I don't. I, I just meant that like just the season has to go very badly for that tanking scenario to come into play. And I, I just, I took the under but barely. I think they're going to be a solid team with a good defense. I just was a little worried about the offense. Um, we only have seen the Lakers play once. Was a loss to the warriors, who again, I thought looked awesome. Perfect Jonathan Kaminga game, everything, the words. I was actually surprised they started him and Draymond and Butler all together. Those three barely played together last season because of the spacing concerns that Steve Kerr talks about all the time. Defended well. Unselfish playmaking didn't force, you know, too many like 17, 18 footers off the dribble. Talk a little bit more about him later. Kind of a flat performance by the Lakers in a game that Luca was awesome. Reeves ended up with a pretty good stat line. No one else did much of anything. I don't know.

D (47:33)

What'd you see from the Lakers? I just. My biggest question is I just don't know how you guard the backcourt with having to play Austin Reaves and Luke of 34 plus minutes a game. That was their Achilles heel last. I mean rebounding was like Achilles heel. The Aiden experiment. I just will see how long, see how long that that goes for. I thought they were incredibly flat. The one, the one great thing. Luca looks great. He looked in good shape. He was active defensively. Not saying he played the best defense, but he was active. He. A couple steals. Even had a block like. Yeah, I, I was.

A (48:14)

When they hunted him one on one, he looked good against.

D (48:17)

Yeah. And. Yes, exactly. I was also encouraged by how he looked in the second quarter, in the fourth quarter. Like he still looked like he was a little bit fresh. I know it's game one, but largely disappointed in most. I think Austin reeves scored maybe 13 in the fourth quarter or something like that and 11 of them were probably in the last six minutes. So you know, you look at the box score and you see he has I think 26 and you're like, oh, he had a pretty good game, but that it was too little, too late at that point. But I'm with you. I thought the warriors looked great. I, I, I, I thought they, they're just the Warrior. I mean, just, just, they just have the same formula. Steph and Draymond, just, people come in and they just keep it rolling. And it seemed to me like they were just like, hey, like, we're gonna guard, we're gonna put Kaminga on, on Luca, and nobody else is gonna, nobody else is gonna get anything. They were trading, you know, Luca's mid range for, for threes. And it just, I mean, you saw result.

A (49:13)

I saw you said a nice thing about Kaminga a couple days ago on running back. I think with Lou Will and Parsons and Beetle and I can't remember who else.

D (49:21)

Boogie.

A (49:22)

Oh, yeah, Boogie. I've always been like a. Kaminga is good guy. I understand the flaws. I understand the limitations.

D (49:33)

I do, too.

A (49:34)

And the thing I've always said is, like, he, because he plays for the warriors, who have this totally unique style, passing, cutting, movement, selflessness, he sticks out a little bit, and as a result of sticking out, he kind of gets typecast as a selfish scorer. And sometimes he plays that way. But I've always said, like, if you actually watch him play, he's trying to do Warrior stuff. Like, he's trying to do the quick pitch and pitch back to Steph. He's trying to do the, like, pass and go run instead of screen. It's not his natural game, but he's making an effort. There was one play in that game against the Lakers. He got the ball in the right corner deep at, like, coffin corner, behind the three point arc. And I thought he was going to, like, dance with it and just say, you know, this possession is not going anywhere. I'm going to make it go somewhere. I'm Jonathan Kaminga, and it's. He did for, like, a dribble, and then he saw Draymond at the top of the arc, and he whipped this pass out to Draymond. And he did it because he knew Draymond was going to hand the ball to Stephen. And that's exactly what happened. I think Steph hit a three and then he had another, like, simple just drive and kick to Pajemski for a three, where I was sure he was going to shoot it. But that first pass to Draymond is indicative of an understanding of. I'm just, I'm not just passing to Draymond. I'm kind of passing to Steph. This is like a hockey assist to Steph because of the way we play. I just thought he played a Great game. The Lakers, I thought smart, looked all right, like, for a guy who hasn't played much last year. I thought he moved okay. I thought Rui looked okay. Ayton, not enough. Laravia, not enough. I don't know, just, it's just hard in the west, man. I think the Lakers are good. I just think without LeBron, do they have enough juice against these other great teams? That's why they're not in either of our top sixes. And my God, the Vegas love the Clippers. I like the Clippers. On paper, they looked fucking horrible last night against the Jazz.

D (51:23)

Yeah, let me go one, one thing about the Lakers, the, the LeBron not starting a season scares me. And not knowing a lot about where he's at, the Aiden thing, he's gotta roll. He has to roll and roll hard two, three times early in the game. Then he can maybe do his little thing if you're trying to give him, throw him a bone and let him get those little short rolls like it feels like he wants to do. I just think it just feels like he's just always kind of in the wrong place. He's got like that next gear to go to where, you know, he's a, he's a true, he doesn't have to be a 25 and 15 guy. He just needs to be a 12 and 12 and make the right play guy. And it will, it will go so far for Luca, go so far for the Lakers, their defense, everything. So that was, that was a little bit disappointing. I don't know that I was expecting, like, a huge turnaround from, like, the Aiden that we've seen, you know, over the years, but that's just kind of what I saw.

A (52:26)

I thought, Clippers, go ahead.

D (52:28)

Sorry, Clippers. I didn't really get to watch that game last night. I was sort of following along, but just looked like everything was going in for, for Utah. I mean, I don't know. You, you tell me.

A (52:38)

Well, they just looked old and slow, which is really what they are. And they were missing one key bench, Guy Bogdanovich. But look, I, I, I thought both the warriors and the Clippers would have strong regular seasons. I think the warriors are a little better than the Clippers, but I, I shut the title window pretty tightly for both. And again, it's a long season. The Warriors, I think, are even a little better than I thought they were. Butler just looks awesome, but it's just when everyone is that old on your team, and in some cases, like Kawhi, injury prone, it's hard for me to believe, like, Oklahoma City, as young and deep as they are, was running on fumes at the end of a four of four playoff series. Like, they could barely gut it through to the end. And maybe they don't even win if Halliburton doesn't get injured. They're just. Both of those teams are just so ancient in terms of their key rotation guys that it's hard for me to see them getting all the way to the end. But the Clippers looked very old and very slow, and maybe I was a little too pessimistic about the warriors because they just are a machine that keeps on trucking. The Lakers, they just looked a little vanilla, a little predictable to me. And then I'm just monitoring Memphis at the bottom of this discussion because, you know, as long as Moran and Jackson are healthy, despite all the injuries behind them, Jerome and Pippen Jr. And Edie and Clark, they tend to win a fair amount of games. I didn't see their game last night against who they played the Pelicans, but yeah, so that's where we are in the West. Want to go East?

D (54:09)

Yeah, let's do it.

A (54:10)

Top six in the East. I'll let you go first. Just say your top six in order and we'll see how much we agree or disagree.

D (54:19)

Top six. I'm gonna still go Cleveland 1. I'm gonna go Knicks 2. Orlando 3. I didn't. I. I'm gonna go Detroit, Atlanta, Milwaukee.

A (54:33)

We have the same six teams again in a different order. Cleveland, New York. I was at that game last night. Such a bummer when you get so amped for an opening game and so many dudes are out. Yeah, Orlando. I saw their game against Miami last night. Just another fall from a head loss from Miami, who just made a whole season of them last year. Somehow opened the season looking good. Like, I was watching the game. This is how I work. Like, I was at Knicks, Cavs and during commercials and halftime and everything. I was watching Heat Magic on, like, from behind. I'm like, oh, yeah. It's like, I'm so glad I was high on the Heat. Little higher than consensus on the Heat. The Heater looking good. Norm Powell's jetting around the Heater, doing interesting stuff on offense. Knicks game ends. I go down to the locker room. There's like seven minutes left in the Heat Magic game. Heater up like nine. I get down there, I'm talking to people. I run into a Cleveland front office guy, and I was like, hey, see any scores? Sign anything interesting? He's like, yeah, Miami blew that one, huh? And I was like, what?

D (55:30)

God damn it.

A (55:32)

So Orlando, Atlanta. Look, I'm not going to talk about the Hawks. Hawks, You're. You're on notice after one game. I spent the entire off season telling everyone how excited I was for you. For the third. For the third of the last four years. You can't even. You get run off their own freaking home floor by the Toronto Raptors, who look great. That's awesome. Atlanta, you are on notice. You're on notice. You've done it to me before, but you're sticking at number four here. Milwaukee, 5, Detroit 6. For me, little concerned. Detroit took only 24 threes against Chicago in their first game. So we have the same top six here. Look, Cleveland looked a little clunky last night. A lot of Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell just like, all right, we gotta create some stuff from nothing. New York missing. Hart and Robinson look decent in winning that game. Definitely did. Did you see that game?

D (56:25)

I did. I watched most of that game.

A (56:27)

Did you. Did you sense that New York was playing differently on offense?

D (56:34)

Early on? It seemed like they were trying to make a concerted effort to. To. To play a little different offensively. My biggest thing for them was like, just, are we going to get. Just spread the wealth? Are we just going to get the ball out of. Out of. Out of Jalen's hands? I was looking to see Cat used as like a hub a little bit more. Like, Cat can pass the ball a little bit. You know, he. He sort of. He sort of loses his way from time to time, but he can sort of be that Sabonis ish role. We just throw him the ball and like, let some stuff happen off ball, set some screens, rib screens, whatever it is. And then. And then, hey, if nothing comes of it, like, let him go to work or let him toss out. Pick and pick and roll, pick and pop, whatever it is. I thought they did. I thought they looked pretty good, especially considering Hart is out. And I think heart is. Is very important for them. I'm interested because we've been hearing a lot about the Cat Robinson lineup. I'm really interested to see how that that lineup plays out. But I was. I mean, in Cleveland without Garland, without Streuss, without Hunter, like, I don't. They have such a solid roster. Like, of the guys that are playing, like, Alonzo looks solid. Didn't score the ball that much, but he just looked like he had his pop back.

A (57:51)

Wade is always helpful. Merrill is always helpful. Played crunch time for them last night. Yeah, I'm not going to worry about the Cavs missing all those guys. There was some optimism. I heard some optimism about Garland. Garland is tracking well, let's say based on what I heard last night, the Knicks. I saw germs. Germs. Germs of what they want to play. They played fast, which was unusual for them. And he clearly like whoever gets the rebound. OG you want to go coast to coast, grab and go. Brunson set more screens than usual. Bridges got more pick and roll reps than usual. I got the Cat piece is interesting because you mentioned Robinson didn't play. They start Huck Porti, who's kind of like Robinson light in terms of what he does on offense. And it was interesting to see Cat. Cat's always got that thing where he did it in Minnesota. Like I got to fit in around a rim running center and he's got the jumper to be able to do it, obviously, but he likes to be a little bit more involved in that. But I, I, the germs were there of a just were not like Brunson had one, one or two cuts along the baseline. One he missed a floater, the other, I can't remember what happened where he cut and he cut hard. He cut the score and not just to jog around to get the ball. My, my hot other hot take from last night among these top sixes. If these Cleveland injuries linger, Orlando could get the number one seed in the East. It's like it's in play for Orlando. I, I don't, I don't think they will because I don't trust their offense enough. But I thought against a pretty spunky Miami team, I thought they looked good last night. I Bane is just everything. The band was even more seamless than I thought. He got to handle it a lot. He set a lot of back screens to kind of get their cutting, try to hunt some smaller defenders, which was something they weren't able to do much last year. Suggs only played 17 minutes. I thought he looked pretty good. De Silva looked. I like Tristan De Silva. I think he's a good little player. I just think they're going to win a lot of regular season games.

D (59:46)

Yeah, I do too. I mean, I also think Bronze Wagner, I mean, the shot was concerning last year. It looks better in Euro. He had a great Euro summer. I mean and it from the looks of it last night, he, he's more comfortable. Like he's sort of gotten that thing out of his head. I, I don't know if I have Orlando likes Getting the one seed, I'd love, I'd love to see them for extended period of time play faster. That, that that group of guys being the slowest pace in the NBA last year is mind boggling to me. I, I do think Bane fixes a lot of those issues. It fixes some issues for them. But I do love their roster, I love their team, I love their coach. I think I said, you're right. It does kind of come down to Cleveland's injuries and how quickly they can get guys back in.

A (60:38)

Yeah, I wouldn't expect them to be the number one seat. I picked them to be a third or I think third. That was where I said just now. Yeah, I'm just saying like New York and Cleveland have some kinks to work out and I don't, I feel like Orlando doesn't really and, and can kind of get off to a little bit of a head start. Little note on Miami I mentioned a couple of times hinted at that they were tinkering with some stuff on offense because their coaching staff was well aware. Like this offense has kind of hit the wall. We just don't produce a lot of good shots at the rim. It's a lot of mid range jumpers. It's, it's just like full of motion and cuts and handoffs and doesn't really go anywhere. Just east, west, east west and that. There were. I said I had little birdies telling me they're tinkering. Last year was kind of like a gap year pre getting into media for you. I don't know. Did you watch Memphis a lot last year?

D (61:29)

I didn't watch Memphis much last year, no.

A (61:31)

So they had this, they started the season with this much ballyhooed offense. Kind of the brainchild of Noah LaRoche and an assistant coach where like we're not going to run any pick and roll and we're going to spread the floor and we're going to run a lot of like ISO kind of like a dribble drive offense. Like we're just going to, someone's going to drive kick and everyone's going to spin around in like, like clear the floor and cut and minimize pick and rolls. In Miami, from what I heard it has, has sort of looked at that, talked to some of the people involved in it and I had heard like they're trying to incorporate it and so last night I'm like yeah, it kind of looks like a less extreme version of that. And sure enough, Miami ran 29 pick and rolls last night, their season low. Last season was 41. So, like, a number that would have been their season low by far. Just something they didn't win, but their offense looked okay. Just something I'm monitoring. So those are our top six. Detroit was a little discouraging. Atlanta. Atlanta is in timeout for me. We have to talk about Philly, Vijay, Edgecomb. Holy smokes. I didn't get to watch that game. I went back and watched all of his possessions, and this morning, for them to win a game on the road where Embiid is almost like a no show by his standards would not have seemed possible to me. And Maxi and edgecomb combined for 74 points. I don't know if you got a chance to see Vijay at all, but he was awesome.

D (62:59)

Yeah, I was sort of going back and forth between the Knicks game and the Celtics game because we have Nick's. We have Nick. Celtics tomorrow. So I was trying to watch a little bit of both. But by the way, Edgecombe would have had. He would have had 36. He smoked two. Two free throws.

A (63:12)

It almost cost him. Almost.

D (63:14)

Yeah. I mean, that was. That was. It was just. It was great to see Edgecombe just come out like you. We hardly see rookies come out with that much poise and deliver. It's just Philly, man. Like, they could win. They could win 20 games, and they could win. There's kind of, like. I was talking about Dallas, but, like, they. I. I don't. I don't know where to put them. My concern is Joel's knees. At times last night, it looked like he wasn't confident in his body. And that's a. I mean, I know that feeling. I know that moment of like, oh, yeah, the break. Because the brakes are the first thing that go. And it's like, oh, I. I can still physically kind of do these moves. The problem is I can't pop to, like, the next move. I can't stop and shoot. I can't stop and spin. I can't do those things that look like he wasn't confident in his body. And that. That's a huge concern for me. Now Maxi and Edgecomb and McCain, when he comes back, these guys can go get you some games. I just don't. I just don't see them. Don't see them doing that.

A (64:19)

Top six is not a high bar in the east, in the. In the junior varsity. And so they're on my list. And they have been of, like. Because you. Because you. As you said, there's just no way to project them. It.

D (64:30)

The.

A (64:30)

The variance is just so High, given Embiid's health issues. Paul George hasn't even played. But I, you know, I had Bill on my podcast like a month ago and one of the. Just for fun, we picked Team USA 2028 because EuroBasket had just happened and we were, it was, it was on the miner. There was nothing else going on. And my toughest cut for that team was Maxi because I just love like his speed. And the open floor would be a really good fit for USA Basketball. They just don't like to take small guards. But it was, it was my sort of way of just pinning. In my mind, he kind of got off to a slow start last year and didn't make the all star team. Didn't make the all NBA team. I still think there's an ascension that's happening with him and last night, I mean, it's going to be overshadowed by Edgecombe. Just 40 points, seven of nine on threes. I've just, I've got my eye on Maxi for an all NBA third team kind of leap happening this season. And Edgecom, just the poise he played with his ability to rise up in the mid range like just over Derrick White. I'm just going to get to my spot. Pogo stick, go up. They let him run the offense with Maxi and Embiid off the floor and I just like, I'm just Maxi, Edgecomb grimes, they played 19 minutes together plus 17. So that's interesting to me. That's just, I'm just flagging it. You know, Boston's going to be competitive. Indiana is going to be competitive. Toronto looks like they're going to be competitive. You know, like, we'll see. There's some like Detroit look like a team that has some things to prove. Atlanta, you know, not talking about them.

D (66:06)

But Milwaukee's guard play really is. Is a real question for me. Obviously, I think Giannis is going to have a phenomenal year. I think he's just going to go scorched earth. I think him, you know, Turner being there I think is great. I'm just a little bit worried about Milwaukee's guard play. Atlanta, like everybody was talking about, they made some great moves this offseason. I agree. I think bringing in those guys, they're just one of those teams that it feels like they have no direction. Like it just doesn't they? Don't they? And I think part of that, like this year a big thing for Trey is going to be like, hey, can you get all these guys together who may or may not fit and, and just keep Moving everybody forward last night was like a perfect example of like kind of just what I think of Atlanta in my head. It's just like, I don't know, I don't know what their identity is, what do they want to play, like what type of team do they want to be, what type of roster are they going to build every year? It's just kind of a little bit different. They're, they're getting some nice pieces, but I don't, I just need direction.

A (67:10)

Well, and what you're really talking about, big picture with them is Trae Young and they're either going to find the right direction with Trae Young, like the way he likes to play is going to blend in a little bit more seamlessly with the all around skill of the guys around him and they're going to find that identity, they're going to land in the right spot and we'll know 30, 40 games in. And in that case, I think there's an extension to be had or a new contract to be had with Atlanta if we get halfway through. And it feels like there's not, not a tug of war, just a little bit of stylistic dissonance between how Trey has played in the past and maybe prefers to play versus how Quinn Snyder wants to play, how Jalen Johnson and Reese's Shay and you know, all Kongwu and the other young guys they have on the team want to play with the draft picks they have come in. And I think that's just an interesting dichotomy there and maybe it goes the other direction. I've been optimistic. It's been one game. I'm not getting off my Hawks bandwagon yet. But it was not encouraging. By the way, just going back to the west for a second. I saw Stephen A today said the spurs could make the conference finals this year if Wemby keeps playing like this. And people are going to laugh at that and say it's ridiculous. Like, I think that's a little much. But three to eight, three to nine in the west is going to be pretty compressed and what Wendy did last night was just. I. It was terrifying.

D (68:29)

Well, it's crazy. I mean he, like, he was making some crazy shots, but I think impact wise, like defensively, like there's going to be some, there's going to be some insane nine block games. Eight block games. There's going to be like his. I thought he was fantastic last night. I think he can play better, which is crazy to say. I mean, offensively I think he did. He was fantastic. But I think he can still play even better. And that's not even a knock on how he played last night. I just, I, like I said earlier, I don't know where his ceiling is.

A (69:02)

All right, I asked you a trivia, not a trivia question, just a fun question before we did this pick. Your pick. Your most important non all stars in the championship picture this season. Most important non all star X factor. And by non all star I mean has it made it and is unlikely to make it. So I banned you from picking Chet Holmgren. Amen Thompson. Guys who just haven't made it because they're younger, they've been injured like a legit. This guy has never made it, probably won't ever make it. But for whatever reason he is massively important to the championship picture.

D (69:36)

My non all star pick is Cameron Johnson.

A (69:41)

I think same pick, same pick. I'll go Aaron Gordon because you picked Cam Johnson. But Cam Johnson was my pick.

D (69:49)

So a lot of everybody's talking about Atlanta, their off season. Nikhil Walker, Chris Staps, you know, all the, all the guys they, they added to me. Cam Johnson going to Denver, Bruce Brown going back to Denver. Like they really like they are the team that got better the most because it put them in such a good spot to contend for a championship again. They took Oklahoma City. I mean, yeah, they took Oklahoma City seven games like they were right there. And Cameron Johnson is I to me, exactly what they need. And he's the type of guy who benefits greatly from Nicole Jokic.

A (70:28)

He's my pick to because I, I think Michael Porter Jr. Was a great fit with Jokic also and they won a championship. So obviously he was I, I think because of all the warts in his game, inconsistent on defense podcast game off the rails all summer. He, he's kind of gotten dismissed a little bit as like oh, this is a no brainer upgrade for, for the Nuggets. And I, I said right when it happened, the biggest upgrade is Cam Johnson ability to keep the offense moving off the dribble to attack a closeout, make the next play. He's Michael Porter Jr. Was just not comfortable enough with his handle to be able to do that. But on the flip side he's 610 with a Durant like three point shot that he can get off over anybody. And Cam Johnson's a little smaller than that, needs a little more space than that at times. So he's got a really leverage and, and I don't, I'm not sure he's a defensive upgrade over Michael Porter. Junior he, he probably is in space, but he's not on the glass. Michael Porter Jr. Is a better rebounder. He's a little bit bigger. He can make some plays at the rim. All of which is to say Cam Johnson keeping the machine moving and making 40 plus percent on his three. He can't be like a 37% three point shooter. He's got to be knocked down. Like I want his catch and shoot three percentage this year to be like 4, 44% and he's really gotta have like career best doing stuff off the dribble off of closeouts to make this a no brainer upgrade. If he does that, it is going to be a no brainer upgrade and their offense is going to be extremely hard to stop. The cliche answer would be Jamal Murray because it's always Jamal Murray. But I just feel like he's, he's kind of an honorary all star because we talk so much about how he's never made an all star team. He kind of doesn't count for this.

C (72:14)

This.

D (72:15)

Yeah, I agree. I, I was, when I was going through the list, Jamal, Jamal didn't make much sense. I kind of did the same thing with Aaron Gordon. I mean, I think he's been, he's been so good for them. But I, to me it's, it's, it's Cam Johnson for all the reasons you said. I just, I just really like a guy who you just, just know exactly what you're going to get from him in terms of how the, the style of play. I, I think he's, I think he's going to greatly benefit from playing with, with Jokic.

A (72:43)

Did you make a finals pick yet on, on any of your many platforms or not?

D (72:48)

I've had, I've done, I did the, the whole media, sir. I, I had, I actually, I went on a limb and I said not with the West. I had Oklahoma City. I wanted to possibly say Denver, but I have Oklahoma City and I, and I went with the Knicks.

A (73:04)

Me too. Same Finals. I went Oklahoma City over Knicks, but I just, just one game in, it's amazing. Just what. And we're not even one. We haven't seen like there's like eight teams haven't played it or something.

D (73:14)

We haven't seen Denver. We haven't seen.

A (73:16)

Yeah, we haven't seen Denver, but just one game in, it's like, oh yeah, there's so much. It's like unwrapping presence. It's like, oh my God, this, this toy looks like this and this. There's so much we don't know. All right, Blake Griffin, when are we gonna start seeing you? Like, when is the full blast Amazon schedule start for you?

D (73:32)

We start tomorrow, October 24th. That'll be our first game. We got Knicks, Celtics. We got. I'm sorry, Minnesota. We got Lakers. So, yeah, I'll be on every Friday and then we will start switching to some Thursday nights when Thursday night football ends. So, yeah, we're going.

A (73:53)

It's gonna be a very. It's a great crew in studio. You guys are gonna be awesome. Thanks for giving us a little bit of your time at the end of your media circus. Now the media circus is over and you just get to do the media. Blake Griffin, everybody. Thank you, sir.

D (74:05)

Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate it.

A (74:12)

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com all right, let's bring in the general manager, the president of basketball operations. I don't know what anyone's title is anymore. Of one of the hot young teams in the league. A lot of expectations for the first time for the Detroit Pistons, Trajan Langdon. How are you, sir?

C (74:51)

I'm good, sir. Good morning. Thanks for having me.

A (74:53)

It's a big year for the Pistons. I almost said the Alaskan assassin Trajan Langdon, but I read that you don't like that nickname. Is that true?

C (75:01)

I wouldn't say I don't like it. I actually think it's a cool nickname. It definitely is flattering. I wouldn't say I don't like it. Okay. Yeah, I think it speaks to what I used to do at Duke and even did it in Europe. But no, I enjoy it. I just don't go around calling myself that.

A (75:17)

Don't minimize the Europe stuff. You're one of the greatest Euroleague players of all time and you have said. I've read a lot of interviews you did to prepare for this. People ask you a lot, like, oh, do you regret that the NBA didn't work out Three short years you went to Europe and you've said all along, absolutely not. And now that you're back in the NBA and have been in front offices for quite a long time, do you still feel that way? Do you feel that way Even strong, more strongly.

C (75:40)

Yeah, I think the way that I see the world and see the game now, in my day to day life of being an executive and just a human being, I think I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my nine years playing in Europe and just how you're able to see the world, different cultures, different people, and just kind of reframe what basketball really is and in the context of life. So I'm glad I had those. I made some amazing friends, had some amazing experiences that I wouldn't have had if I would have stayed the stateside.

A (76:06)

I know you played for Czecho Moscow for several seasons, obviously. What was your. And I read somewhere like you were a little trepidatious about living in Russia. It was sort of a mysterious place to you. What was your like, what was your welcome to Russia moment? Were you greeted with vodka at the airport? Were you. I mean, what, what was the like, okay, I'm here, this is just how it's going to be.

C (76:32)

So I went back and forth with my agent at the time, and I was, I was. I had actually signed a contract in the ABA at the time to go play for the Orange County Crush. And the money just kept going up like every two days with the offer in Moscow. And finally I turned it down twice. And finally my agents called me and berated me on the phone. He said, you're making a huge mistake. So I called them back, I said, okay, take the deal. And they said, okay, they want you to plan in six hours. I said, no, absolutely not. They're flying you straight to Kazan to play a big league game. And was like, no, I need to come and have at least one or two practices. So my welcome to Moscow moment, although it wasn't Moscow, was getting into my apartment and realizing that I didn't have a bed and I had to sleep on a sofa for the first two months. Okay, yeah. But Moscow itself was so big, so expansive that people took a second to get used to. But Russians are just hard exterior, soft interior, so it takes you a time to get through that exterior. But great people that I enjoyed getting to know in my time there.

A (77:37)

Is it true that you were once gifted a Soviet rifle and do you still have it?

C (77:45)

So, yes, we won the Euroleague title in 06. And the gift from the Kremlin to all of that, all of us was a. Was a rifle, it was a replica. But it was also told that it's just blocked. So if you had somebody go manipulate it, it could turn into a full fledged Working rifle again. So I could not put it on the plane, nor I could put it normal. Could I have it shipped? So it is still in Russia.

A (78:15)

That's probably a better. Based on what you just said, probably better left behind. You're about my age. I just turned 48. You're a little younger than I am, but we grew up 80s. NBA, Lakers, Celtics, then Pistons, Bulls. First of all, who were you a fan of in Alaska? Alaska. Were they Sonics fans? Were they totally agnostic about the NBA? Did everyone just pick like, oh, the Hawks on national TV or the polls are on national tv? Did you have a team?

C (78:48)

I had a team, but it had nothing to do with location. Like you said, the two. You know, they had NBA on NBC, obviously on the weekends. Or was it cbs? I think it was cbs, actually. Weekend in basketball, the game of the week. And then TBS and WGN were the two stations we got. So obviously watched a lot of Cubs baseball and Braves baseball, but then Hawks basketball, Chicago Bulls basketball. And the games of the week were always the Lakers or the Celtics. So those are the teams I watched. Love the way that the Lakers played, the way that they got up and down. Obviously, I loved Magic. I loved Michael. Just watched Michael all the time, obviously being in wg and I don't think I missed a game if I could have watched it. But the guy that I locked, that I kind of locked in on, seeing he's different, was Michael Cooper. Just great defensively on the ball, locked guys up and then just played a role. And obviously that was a day when not many threes were made and the whole crowd chanted Coop when he hit a corner three. So I thought that was cool.

A (79:52)

Did you hate the. Did you hate the bad boys like everybody else outside of Detroit did? And I mean that affectionately like that. They loved to be hated. That was their thing. I respected. Like, I'm one of the few guys who kind of respected. When they walked off the floor against the Bulls before the season series was over, I thought that was a badass move. Did you hate the bad boys? And Bill Lambert and Dennis Rodman and Rick Mahorn?

C (80:14)

There was some animosity to them just because they were just decking people. And there was part of me that said, that's not real basketball. But in high school, we played a physical brand of basketball, and I had a huge head coach, it was 6, 5, 2, 3. That loved playing a physical brand, rough basketball. So I highly respected it, although I felt at times it was too much and over the top. I understood where they were coming from and they were competing. Yeah. At times I like, ooh, that's probably a little bit much. And shouldn't be fighting in the game of basketball. But what the hell did I know at that age, they're competing and trying to win a championship.

A (80:50)

Who do you think was more universally hated, the Bad boys or Duke? In the early to mid-90s, with Wojo slapping the floor, I don't think it's close.

C (81:01)

I think it's Duke. I think we. I wouldn't say Wojo, although we would walk into arenas on the road and they would. I would. I'd make sure I'd walk out with them because they would boo him. And I knew they weren't pulling me, so that felt good. But I tried to give him some support, too, just to be there. But, like, when we went back to Maryland and played at Cold Fuel House and going to uva, I mean, the booze he would get were just. It would fill up an arena, so. But he reveled in it. We reveled in it. But, like, they. Yeah, they.

D (81:32)

They.

C (81:32)

Most of North Carolina doesn't like Duke. Like, a lot of people don't understand that that's a UNC state. So around the US, we're probably loved more than unc, but we're. We're enemies in our own state.

A (81:44)

Did you ever slap the floor on defense? Did that ever trickle down to you?

C (81:49)

I mean, Ojo and I came in together, so he was always slapping the floor. We were freshmen together, so maybe once or twice, but I was just more of like, let's. Let's strap up and guard. That just was kind of who I was and how I played.

A (82:05)

I was pretty badier. Told me you were, like, supposed to show him around campus on his recruiting visit or something and basically just ghosted him. Like, he got to campus and you're like, all right, here's Duke. I gotta go to. I got. I gotta maintain my 4o GPA. Have fun.

C (82:19)

Yeah, I wasn't a great. I wasn't a great person to have that weekend. I had some stuff going on. Shane was great, but I did. I do admit that I did Ghost. And I wasn't the best host in the world for him, but he came a couple times, and obviously we're. I loved having him as a teammate for the two years that we were together. Man. We have. Yes. It's a hilarious story. He. He will never let me down.

A (82:46)

I mean, I. Yeah, that's probably better than, you know, other recruiting stories. I've heard that. And and like badly in the opposite way. Like I there was too much imbibed and I woke up in a room I didn't recognize, covered in my own urine kind of thing. On another, I may be speaking from personal experience. This is going to sound like a joke question, but it's not dovetailing on the bad boys thing, have you ever, have you ever sat down with Isaiah Stewart and Ron Holland and been like, hey, look, I respect the fight and the tenacity but like maybe dial it back a little bit on the fighting and the technicals.

C (83:29)

Not both of them together. Individually I have and it's more just talking about the text and what can happen if there's more and it lead to suspensions. And I know you're doing it for the right reasons and let's talk about this a little bit and how can we dial it back? But look, I know they have the best intentions. They're competing or they're having the backs of their teammates. Sometimes it's hard to dial guys up. You rather have guys, guys already dialed up and have to dial them back than opposite. It's really hard to dial, you know, even keel, low energy guys. It's hard to get those guys going. So give me a guy that's going to get after a compete at the highest level and we'll work on getting it to a level where you get that many taps to impact the team. But I'm all for these guys being physical, impactful, having the back of their teammates as long as it's in the, you know, in the right boundaries.

A (84:22)

You, you came in to Detroit into the top role right before the 2024 draft. Like you picked Ron Holland, right?

C (84:30)

Correct.

A (84:32)

What did you see in him and what are your hopes for him in, in year two?

C (84:39)

Yeah, I think a lot of the things that we look at, you know, eyes, ears, numbers, things like that, when you do, when you look at film, you watch him live. I got to see him live before he hurt his wrist out with the ignite size for position. And then you hear about how much he loves the game, how much he studies the game, how much he works on the game, how coachable he is. But you're always going to hear varying opinions throughout the draft process. There's going to be some workouts or maybe hear, oh, he had a bad workout, he couldn't make a shot, Pro day, couldn't make a shot. But then you start dialing in listening to interviews. We got a chance to interview him in Chicago. Before I got there, I was actually with still with New Orleans during Chicago pre draft. So I got to listen to the audio of Ron and I did a whole lot of digging on his personality and that was huge for me. When we're trying to establish an identity is have somebody come in who's willing to work, who's a high character, young man, size for position, has a chance to be a big time defender. And we all felt that the shot could be fixed. So I think adding all those things in, we just felt he had a chance to be a pretty good NBA basketball player. And I know he's going to reach his ceiling because he works, he listens and he loves the game of basketball.

A (85:52)

Do you have a go to off the beaten path interview question or technique for the combine?

C (86:01)

I don't really. I think we like to let the interview flow a little bit. Ask a couple questions about who the person is, what drives them, how they got to the seat today. And usually we allow them to steer the conversation. It usually gets to a place where they reveal something about themselves. If we need to find out a couple things here and there, we can grab it out of the interview. But I think the biggest thing for us is trying to let that person feel comfortable being themselves. A lot of these guys come in and they're all, they've all gone through the process of, of being. They know what's coming, right. And we want to get them out of the rose rope. Answers of oh, I did hear this. This is what I should say. No, no, say what you want to say. Feel comfortable in here. And that's hard getting them to that spot because they're doing six to eight of these a day and they're doing 15 over a three day span. So they've all been prepped. But we want to get him to relax and have a good time with us.

A (86:59)

Do you ever put them in front of a whiteboard? I had one team in particular, but I'm sure other teams do it that will say to guys when they come to the facility, say we draft you. Place yourself within our starting five and diagram a play that you'd be in and what you would do in the play. Do you ever do something like that?

C (87:18)

Yeah, we'll do it in Chicago. We'll have a whiteboard, especially more for guard play than any other position. Drop their favorite play, what they want to get out of it. And then, you know, sometimes it's do they draw it for them or do they draw it for somebody else on the team? Right. And you get that insight into how they think and Then yeah, we'll do some things at, in terms of like retention.

D (87:41)

Right.

C (87:41)

I think a lot of teams do like here's, here's a play. Let's go through the workout, draw the play up at the end of, of of the workout. Right. See if they can do that or run the play out on the court that we drew up 30 minutes ago. So yeah, try to do some of those things. But really, what does that give you? I don't know, 0.5% of the entire picture of what you're trying, the data points to draft a certain player. But try to make it fun, try to make it interesting and get as many data points to make you feel comfortable or figure out that this isn't the guy as you can in that month process.

A (88:15)

By the way, not for nothing, but at least one team that picked above you in that draft had the lottery at the ping pong balls or the picks flipped a different way would have taken Holland ahead of you. I know that for sure. So I'm interested to see what he does this season because, you know, it's just young guy on a good team. There's a big role for him potentially off the bench. Right. Like you need like backup forward, backup wing minutes.

C (88:39)

Yeah. I think, you know, Zach, he's been in the gym a lot, as all of our guys have, and I think a lot of people saw what he did in his few games in Vegas in summer league where he was the leader of that team, took a step, playing both ends of the floor, showed some things he can do at all three levels. And we're hoping that transitions into the regular season as well. But he's, he's got a chance to be a good player in this league for a long time.

A (89:05)

Did you get anywhere close on extensions with Jaden Ivey or Jalen Duran?

C (89:13)

You know, I will speak to the overall picture of extensions and how these things can be difficult at times. I think players and their representatives come in, I think they try to, they try to work with the team, but at the end of the day, their responsibility is to get their client the biggest, the most money that they can. And our job is to put together a roster that hopefully can be competitive for years and years. Right. So I think in extension scenarios, you can have two people in two different places in terms of what they're looking at doing. And hopefully those, hopefully those places can intersect to get something done. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's just like we're in one place, we're in another place. We can get somewhat close. I would say discussions kept being had, let's put it that way. But I think both we just felt, okay, let's revisit it. Let's don't make this thing too contentious. So I think tops were good. They were professional, and I think myself, JD and JI were all in a good place heading into the season.

A (90:31)

Does the last minute plot twist like Jaden feeling pain in his knee and then needing surgery right before the season? Does that affect extension talks at all?

C (90:44)

No, because I don't think that that was not something that we feel is a big deal. Like it. That to me, it did not. I think from the outside it might see that it could, but to me it didn't.

A (91:00)

Can you.

C (91:00)

If it's something, if it's something more severe, maybe it's. That's. But that's not something severe at all.

A (91:06)

Now that the procedure is over and you probably have a little bit of a better sense of, of it. Can you. I know I was reading that it was, it's. It's right knee. He felt discomfort. It was, I think I said in a statement related to the broken left leg he had last year.

C (91:23)

Not related. Not related.

A (91:25)

Not related.

C (91:27)

Not related.

A (91:28)

Can you provide any clarity on what exactly like the surgery did or was? And is there any updated timetable?

C (91:36)

It's just, it was a cleanup, some cartilage that kind of was just some loose particles in there that was causing some discomfort. So cleaned it up. I think he's feeling better already. He's. He's walking. He's starting his rehab. We're going to make sure he's good to go. I think that will go pretty easily. It was very, very simple. It was nothing. He was literally in the surgery room for 15 minutes and he. Oh, yeah, it was quick.

A (92:07)

My daughter's elbow surgery lasted longer than that a couple of years ago when she busted up her elbow.

D (92:12)

Geez.

C (92:13)

Yeah. And these. And these guys are. I mean, they're just ridiculous athletes. And he was in really good shape. He had a great summer. And so he's going to get back off this quick. I mean, it's not like he hasn't been training, so, you know, but we won't rush him. You know, our biggest thing with him is let's make sure you get back healthy and we keep you back. Obviously, it's, it's not easy coming back off of the, the ankle injury he had that was, you know, freakish back on January 2nd. He's worked his butt off and then he has to have this and go Back to it. But he's had a phenomenal mindset with this. He's going to attack it and he'll be back soon, I would say. You asked for a timetable. It's, you know, we're going to re evaluate in four and I think it's unfair for me to say anything different than that.

A (92:58)

You got to reevaluate. That's what reevaluating means. What was your vantage point for the Josh Hart uncalled foul on Tim Hardaway Jr. At the end of game four in the first round? Are you in the stands? And, and, and what is, what is the aftermath of that game? Because that's your first as, as the top guy. That's your first like hot house playoff.

C (93:19)

Oh yeah.

A (93:19)

Refs maybe did you wrong. How's the team going to respond? How. How do what. What do you want to project as the leader? What, what is that whole sequence like for you?

C (93:31)

Obviously a huge game for us because we wanted not only to keep the series, I think it would have tied the series up. But you, you, the fans were so good, Zach, going down the stretch for us in the last few months and during the playoffs, I mean that place was rocking. We wanted to win one home game for the fans, right? That would have been not only for our players, but for the fans and for the city. We were competing at a super high level and I think we put ourselves in a place to win a game and sometimes that's all you can ask. And obviously so where we sit is basically straight diagonal across the court from the play. And so I got a pretty good vantage point. And obviously they're going to show the replay 100 times from where the ref was. That was a tough vantage point to see because it was kind of blocked. So in our talks and understandings with the league, we understood why he made the call that he made. Was it difficult for us to swallow and move on? It was, but I think those. You just have to. And I thought our JB staff and our guys did a tremendous job of moving on and going on to New York and get game five, but it was, it was tough in the moment. Obviously you go in the locker room, guys are pissed and they're yelling and how the, how the, how does this happen to us? And is there any repercussions? And you just got to calm guys down and it's part of the game at times goes your way sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

A (95:01)

What is one? So the playoffs, obviously different game than regular season. Different level of intensity, different level of Game planning. What is one positive concrete takeaway you had from the team's first playoff experience roster wise? Like I learned this good thing about the roster and one negative or we've got to get better at that or we've got to address that need that you learned from the playoffs.

C (95:27)

I think our resilience was the thing as a team that really stood out, like lose the first game, come back, win the second game and lose the first game in a fashion that I think we felt, you know, they went on a run and I think it was like something ridiculous like 21 to 2 or 21 to 3. Fourth quarter run when we're basically felt like we were in control going into that fourth quarter. It's just a couple possessions, right? All of a sudden they get a couple easy ones. Crowd gets into it when the crowd was dead. And then we just didn't know how to respond. In game one day later, two days later, our guys respond, come out like nothing happened, like no memory of it. Come out and win a tough game, hit big shots down the stret. I think it's just that's a big one that I learned about being resilient. Another one I learned is sometimes you let your guard down in game too. Like you relax a little bit when you feel you're in control. And a lot of times that just comes from youth because you haven't been in that situation where you understand now is the time. And sometimes there's just a time in the game when you're like, now is game winning time. And it might not be two minutes left, it might be eight minutes left in the game. And that's what New York did to us in game one. They said now's the time, we're down 10, we're going to hit them, punch them in the mouth and see how they respond. I think we, I learned too that pretty good passing team, like we're unselfish. We moved the ball the way that JB and staff got our guys ready, we bought into that. And I think we executed at a pretty high level in, in terms of game plan on both ends of the floor, which is cool to watch because that actually doesn't always happen, especially when the stakes are high and anxiety and nerves hit. But I thought we did a really good job executing our game plan. I think then I think the one thing that happens too in that series is you just get fatigued. You have 82 games and if you haven't ever been through it emotionally, physically, you don't understand the fatigue that goes into those games because one, it's how physical the games are, but two, how much emotion is put into the games. I mean, you are gassed after those games because it's so emotional. And now how do you recover in a 48 hour time span? It sounds like it's a long time. It's not when you're emotionally spent and then you have friends and family around and you're entertaining them whether you're on the road or at home. So it's trying to block out the noise, focus on that when you've never done it before. And I think now when you know our guys and our team and a lot of good, because we have a lot of continuity, understand what's coming, I think it allows you to prep better.

A (97:58)

Yeah. You mentioned the passing. And one thing I've said before is one of my takeaways was something about this Cade during a Sar Thompson trio. It's got its, it's, it's got its weaknesses. Shooting, wise youth, all of that. But something about that group works with. With Jalen Duran screening for Cade, catching the ball in space, Asar cutting. I was like, all right, that's, that's interesting. I could, I can see that and crystallize that and then you can build off of that. Which is my way of saying, I picked a Sar Thompson to win most improved player this year and I'm very excited about him. What, what should I be excited about? And do you. Do you know kind of what I'm talking about? That shell of those three guys, like there's something there with that group?

C (98:43)

Yeah, I think they are, they're connected in a way where they look for each other, which I think is cool. I don't know where that came from. It's. I think it's just being together. And honestly, I think going through the season that they went to the year before when it's like, let's try to figure this thing out. We're losing 28 games in a row. I think there is a, there's a galvanizing moment with winning a lot. And there's a galvanizing moment at times, especially with young players with hard times. Right. They have to pull together and have each other's back. And I think that's what happened with that team the year before, especially going into the following year is they do have each other's back and went through some tough times that I can't even understand the things that they were going through in terms of that losing streak and only winning 14 games. But they're incredibly unselfish. They come to work every day. They try to make each other better, but they try to make one another better. And like you said, that, that, that combo of three guys, it can be difficult to guard on given nights. And like you said, yep, shooting sometimes can be an issue, but I think defensively those three have a chance to be pretty good too. And obviously, like you talked about at having a whole summer, a whole training camp feeling good, I think his teammates and our staff trust him with the ball a little bit more. So I think that's what you're going to see, his ability to playmaker, set the table a little bit more than he did previously in the past and get the rebound and go because he can do some things out on the open floor especially.

A (100:12)

You have played zero regular season games as we are recording this. And I know you cannot talk about any specific players around the league and you won't want to talk about any of your players. So I will ask it as vaguely as as possible. Will you be open to the idea of putting some chips in, in a win now trade if the right scenarios present themselves, or are you just like, we're just going to build what, what we got and see what this is?

C (100:37)

Yeah. I was actually asked at an event, at an event that I spoke at the other day. It's a great question. There's no way I would have ever thought that I'd be a buyer at the trade deadline last year. Right. I just, there was enough, no way until two weeks before the trade deadline that I told my staff, okay, let's go get a guy that can help us. And I didn't know that Dennis was going to be the one, but we were looking to see which would be the best fit for us at the time, if that opportunity presents itself. I think, yeah, we have to look at everything all the time to make us better. And so does that mean we're going to be super aggressive? Does that mean we add on the margins? Does it mean we put all our chips in? I don't know. Right now I do want to continue to see our young core grow and understand who they can be and who we can be with them as the pieces. And I think if you, in my, in our eyes, if you pull the trigger too early, then, then maybe you don't understand who they are. And some of their growth gets kind of, it gets, it gets hurt because maybe somebody gets in their way. Somebody's playing 38 minutes when those minutes weren't eaten before. So we analyze that Stuff a lot. And we'll continue to assess our team and our players as the season goes along and understand if that's the right path or not.

A (101:58)

Okay. Two fun ones to wrap up. I had forgotten or never knew that you were a high level baseball player. High enough to get drafted and accumulate some minor league stats.

C (102:09)

Bad ones. Bad minor league stats.

A (102:12)

Hey, look, you know who else had bad minor league sets? Michael Jordan. All right, so it's like, it's nice. It's hard hitting, hitting a round ball with a round bat. One of the hardest things. Do you have a player comp for like Peak, Trajan Langdon, baseball. And who was your. Were you. Was it Braves, Cubs? Was it a similar thing? Like who did you root for or who do you root for now? I guess you could say the Tigers. Now I probably have to.

C (102:35)

Yeah, player comp is a tough one for me just because I look, I pitched probably pitching in high school was my best position that I was able to dominate, but I just didn't throw hard enough to be drafted. I topped out at 86.

A (102:49)

But when Kevin Towers, did you throw some junk? Do you throw like.

C (102:52)

I threw a lot of junk cut. I threw a cutter, I threw a curveball, I threw a knuckleball.

A (102:57)

Wow.

C (102:58)

I threw it. A circle change. Yeah, I threw a lot of stuff. I probably had five pitches back through, but I just didn't throw hard enough. In Alaska you can strike out a lot of people, I guess, without throwing too hard, as long as you have the junk. But a couple scouts came, Kevin Towers with the Padres came in a game that I hit two home runs, one left center, one dead center. And they drafted me as a third baseman because they liked my bat and they liked my height and wingspan at the corner and I'd never played at the hot corner before. So that was, yeah, playing the hot corner and not seeing it in minor, I mean in little league ball or high school ball. And then you see it and yeah, it's a completely different monster how fast that ball gets on you at third base. But no, I enjoyed it. It humbled me tremendously, playing every day, staying at days ends, staying at holiday inns, getting 12 meal money on the road. I think my first, my monthly check my first year was about $450 a month. So it definitely was humbling coming from Duke basketball and going to play minor league baseball. And I played one year and spoke one summer in Spokane and two summers in Idaho Falls. So learned a lot of lessons but also understood that you have to love the game of Baseball, to play it at that level. I mean, it is. It's a lot. It's a lot of time and it's, it's every day.

A (104:24)

Did any of your. Did any of. I didn't look at your full minor league rosters. Did anyone make it? Were there any big leaguers that you played with?

C (104:33)

One stands out. His name was Matt Clement. He was a pitcher from Pittsburgh. Yeah. Played for the Cubs. Yeah, he was my teammate, Idaho Falls. And we stay still, stay in touch. He is a high school coach in, in the Pittsburgh area.

A (104:48)

Wow.

C (104:49)

Basketball coach, by the way. Yeah.

A (104:51)

Really?

C (104:52)

Yeah, he was basketball player. Yeah.

A (104:54)

87 and 86 career record 4.47 ERA. That's not. That's a represent. That's. That's a nice Major league baseball career.

C (105:00)

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Hell of a pitcher.

A (105:03)

It's October 22nd. Somebody, and I truly don't remember who off the top of my head said Trajan really likes Halloween. Is that true? Like, what, like, what are we talking about? Are we talking about, like, your house is crazy, your yard is crazy, what's happening on Halloween?

C (105:22)

Okay, somebody gave you a little insight. So two years ago to go, my wife and I did a party at our place in New Orleans. Just off the cuff. Like, let's do something for the organization, invite all staff and have a party. Didn't know where it was going to go and just people loved it. They obviously it was New Orleans, so they brought their, their best costumes and it just, it fit the city, you know, the city of New Orleans. They like to party. Anything they can find to have a good time, they're going to find it and in a positive way. And so we've kept that tradition and did it again last year. We do it at our house last year was fun and people really brought it. I didn't know what would happen in Birmingham, Michigan, and the whole staff, they brought it. They had a good time. So we're going to continue the tradition and do it again this year. Different themes, but try to have fun with it. Let everybody get outside of themselves, show up with whatever costume you want, whatever face paint you want. And there was a couple people that showed up that I did not recognize who they were for about a half hour.

A (106:24)

Yeah.

C (106:24)

Best costume.

A (106:25)

Best costume of the whole thing. Who did you give it an award away for this?

C (106:29)

Yeah, yeah.

D (106:30)

Couple.

C (106:30)

Couple different awards, I think. First, second, third. And we, we had a staff member who dressed up as an escaped convict, but with like, almost like a zombie escape convict convict outfit. Full, full makeup, full hairdo, it was ridiculous and I didn't know who the person was for probably 15 minutes. Amazing. So hopefully we'll have the same this year. Have some fun. We have to squeeze it in in the middle of a three and four. So we'll see how that goes.

A (107:02)

Inconvenient. Do you have a costume plan or can you divulge it or you're gonna see. You gotta surprise people, I guess.

C (107:08)

Surprise people. Definitely surprise people. The the theme is Great Gatsby.

A (107:14)

Nice.

C (107:15)

So yeah. So we'll see who does some things within that theme and and stands out in different ways.

A (107:22)

I wanted to be Mr. Met this year because I I've reclaimed my Mets fandom and there is a Mr. Met costume you can buy with a gigantic baseball head and it was north of $400. And my wife very gently was like, I think that's a little bit ridiculous for something you're never going to use again. And then a friend was like, you could just make a paper mache thing like a big head. I was like, I'm just, I'm not doing for no chance. So I love Halloween. But yeah. Good luck with the Great Gatsby team. You got to go. You got your. You got game one today against the Chicago Bulls. Old school Central division rivalry. Thanks for some time. Good luck and I will see you around the block.

C (108:00)

Thanks, Zach. Glad we make this happen and thanks for having me on.

A (108:05)

All right, that's it for kind of a loaded Zach Low show today. A lot going on. My head is spinning as you could probably tell. Thanks to David Purdom of espn. Thanks to Blake Griffin of Amazon. Thanks to Trajan Langdon of the Detroit Pistons. Sorry you lost your opener after we taped Trajan but hopefully better times are ahead. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike on production. Thanks to all of you for listening and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. We will be back next week on Monday as the NBA season really gets going. We'll have a lot to talk about. A whole weekend of watching teams for the second and third time. Thanks everybody. See you next week. Must be 21 or over in President. Select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 7, support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

D (109:37)

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A (109:37)

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C (109:43)

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B (109:44)

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A (109:45)

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