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This episode is brought to you by State Farm. One minute the crowd's cheering, the next the scoreboard flips. Sports are full of surprises and life isn't much different. That's where State Farm comes in with their easy to use digital tools and over 19,000 local agents who can help you call the right play. Because when you know someone's ready to assist, you have the confidence to take on the unpredictable. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Price and eligibility vary by state. Foreign. Up on the Zach Low show we're back in our normal setup after a delightful live show in Brooklyn and we got Kurt Goldsberry here and there's a lot to talk about. Cade Cunningham Sad injury news for the Pistons. Collapsed lung, out for at least a couple of weeks. What does this mean for the pistons? Present, future, etc. Just a depressing coda for what has been one of the great feel good seasons in the NBA. We'll get into that and what it means for the East. Our Boston now just like clear cut favorites in the East. What's going on there? Lakers, Lakers 10 and 1 in their last 11 beat the Rockets again. Made the Rockets offense look like a clogged toilet to use Bill's terminology. Again The Lakers are 10 and 1 in their last 11 games. Luka looks unbelievable. LeBron looks like he has discovered his found his right place in the right hierarchy at the right time as this sort of like uber third option for the Lakers. They are rolling. They are rock solid third in the West. How dangerous are they? Can they get to the Finals? Can they get to the conference finals? Are they a threat to San Antonio, Oklahoma City? We talk about that. We talk about all NBA which is complete chaos right now, particularly with Cade's injury in the 65 game rule. Talk a little bit about expansion and Kaka. The hawks have won 11 games in a row. What's happening? Is it all the product of an angel food cake schedule that's about to turn into something tougher than angel food cake? Are they a dangerous first round playoff team if they get in? Lots going on in the NBA and Kurt Goldsberry, the great Kurt Goldsberry is here to help sort it all out for us. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. Things are really heating up on the court and FanDuel is the best place to bet on on all the epic matchups during the NBA season. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. And don't forget with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 over in President of select states 18 or over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. Kirk Goldsberry is here and there is a lot going on but we have to start with a sad piece of news that came out this morning. Cade Cunningham has been diagnosed with a collapsed lung and will be out for an extended period. According to Sham Strania. The Pistons then release a statement he's going to be reevaluated in two weeks. I hit our injury expert friend Jeff Stotts of in Street Clothes, the best in the business. He's got four cases in his database of collapsed lungs. Two of them are C.J. mcCollum. Average return time 11 games. So door open for a first round playoff return for Cade Cunningham. We'll just have to see. It depends on the severity. It depends on everything. First and foremost, you know Cade played 12 games in his second year, had some leg injuries that needed to be dealt with. He's had a, he's had a semi rough run. And to see this season where he was headed potentially for a first team all NBA spot, we'll get to that in a minute. And the Pistons were one of the feel good stories of the season. To see it not end like this because we just have to see when he comes back but potentially get derailed like this is just such a gut punch. It's a gut punch to a complete gamer. Plays both ends of the floor. Awesome player to watch. Has really leveled up this season in every possible way. And look the good news for the Pistons is they have a four game lead in the lost column on the Celtics for the number one seed. They have the tiebreaker over the Celtics. So their chances of falling even to 2 are pretty small. Their chances of falling below 2 are minuscule. But we just have to see Kirk because I mean beyond the implications for all NBA and the 65 game rule which should be lit on fire and we'll talk about that. It's like if he's not back for the first round or if he's not right for the first round, they are absolutely vulnerable to a first round upset. I don't even care who they play among this morass of teams from 5 to 10 right now. I mean, Toronto at 5 is only two games up in the loss column over Atlanta at 8. Atlanta's on an 11 game winning streak. But Miami, solid. Orlando is solid. Ish. Philly is just in free fall, just without any of their bodies. But presumably some of those people will come back. Charlotte, we know, is dangerous. Like all of those teams absolutely could beat Detroit without Kate Cunningham or even with the compromise, Kate Cunningham in the first round, which just sucks because the Pistons have been an awesome story this year. I mean, it's one of these. When injuries happen, you want to have a reaction and the reaction is generally like injuries. Bad, sad, frowny face.
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Yeah, bad sad, frowny face. Especially for a fan base in an organization that, like you said, was one of the better stories of the year. A player who had started to emerge into one of the best guards in the league. A legitimate MVP type player. So, yeah, first things first, get well soon. Anytime the lung stuff shows up in the injury report, you just want the person to be okay and get well as soon as possible. From the basketball perspective, I don't know if there's one offensive player that's as important, Zach, to their whole team in the league right now. And I know Jokic is in the league and Jalen Brown is in the league and Tyrese Maxey, but yeah, he really was. And if you look at the advanced stuff, one of the big centerpieces of any team's attack all year long, and without him, the numbers suggest they really go toward the very, very bottom of offensive efficiency. So I know you said they have 14 games left. I went through it. I'd say, hey, they're six and eight in this stretch. Maybe, maybe seven and seven. So the Celtics could catch them. So when we're looking at the standings, I think that becomes a storyline. Can they survive this 14 game window without, you know, their ultimate catalyst and get right for the playoffs? And I think that's the other big story you touched on. The bottom of the east isn't. Isn't a walk in the park anymore. You called it a morass. We have no idea who's going to be the eight or the six.
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A
That's what I meant by morass. Not that the teams are bad. It's just complete chaos. Five to whatever you want to draw the line. Yeah, the East. East ain't chop liver anymore. Okay.
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Right. Charlotte could be the eight seed. They play their way into the eight. It could be, it could be atlant. And these are teams that have had their own sort of crazy sagas this season and are trending up at the exact right reason, the bottom half of that eastern bracket. Even Orlando, Miami, as you mentioned, there's some competence down there that I didn't see when we were sitting here on Christmas Day. So obviously we want Cade to get well. That's number one just for the, for him and the league. But no matter who's Detroit's going to play, they're going to need to be at a better level in the first round than I would have expected them to have to be just a month or two ago.
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Yeah, they're not going to be able to get by on defense, toughness and so so offense. And look, their offense has fallen off a cliff all season without Cade. Now that often happens without your team's best player and they tend to load up those minutes with all of their best supplementary ball handling in Danis Jenkins and Caris Lavert. And Tobias Harris is also often out there when Cade is on the bench as sort of a stretchy four who can also post up mismatches. Just basically like everything we can throw in terms of offensive creation when Cade is on the bench, we're going to throw into those lineups and they still stink because Caris Laver just hasn't had that good of a year and the talent is just offensively like the level of shooting is for almost all of Detroit's core lineup. So it's obviously a crusher for them and would absolutely endanger them in the first round. I mean like if you care about the top seed and you know, it's a nice, it's, it's a nice thing to have. Certainly if Cade comes back in the middle of the first round or the second round, it's going to be more valuable as you go four games up on the loss column and effectively five because of the tie break is a lot, is a lot to make up for as well as Boston is playing. So at least they have that. Let's talk all NBA. I really hate the 65 game rule. I realize that that's now a borderline unanimous opinion. When they first enacted it, I remember saying I get it. I mean I get the reason why they're doing this. They have to try to incentivize the best players to play. Spoiler alert. It has not worked. And I also remember saying can you at least give me the flexibility on like third team all NBA to just not have to follow this rule? Because as things first of all, respect me as a voter, former voter, now maybe future voter, that I can actually like parse games played, impact minutes played, team record. Like I can put all this together and actually compare someone who's played 63 games with someone who's played 72 games and maybe come to the conclusion that the guy who played 63 games is better or more valuable or more worthy of an all NBA. But you've concluded that I'm too stupid to do that and you've changed the rules to disqualify certain candidates. At least for third team all NBA with everything that is at stake, particularly for young players on all NBA. I've already done things like, hey, Kevin Durant played 57 games this year. He's Kevin Durant. I'm putting him on third team all NBA over Julius Randle or something like that. Like who? Who are we kidding? At least for third team all NBA have the 65 game rule not apply. I'm ready for it to go away completely because he's at 60 qualifying games now. Luckily for Katie already secured the supermax thing last year. So the financial implications are not there. He's. I mean, I. It really depends. If he came back at the earliest possible time, he could still get to 65. I would bet against that. Why rush back if the financial benefit isn't there? He should still have this season honored as an all NBA player. And shame on the league and the rule change. If we are prohibited from using our brains to put Cade Cunningham, maybe not on first team anymore, but on second team or third team. It's stupid. It was stupid from the beginning. At least for third team. Maybe even second team. I'm ready for it to go away. It's just a shame that like okay, he made an all star team. Great. He should be on an all NBA team. If he plays no more games, he should be on an all NBA team.
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B
I couldn't agree more. I was looking at the first team guys. You know, everybody has about 13 or 14 games remaining around the league. You know, SGA still has about seven to play. Joker's got to play, I think 11. Wemby's got to play 11. Luke has got to play seven. So what it's also set up is this weird, perverse like games played. Watch. That is way too important as we wind down the end of the season for these awards. Will Shea get there? Will Wemby get there? Kawhi Ant man is relevant. Like we're watching the games played column on basketball reference in unnatural ways.
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I'm tired of doing the math where I look at the standings and I look at a team's players games played and do the math of how many games. Yes. I'm just, I don't want to waste any more time with this.
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Yeah. And basketball is really hard. And this is a point that Bill and I have vibed on a lot this season is, is we're asking for 82 games. Get it? The owners won 82 games. Even the players won 82 games, Zach. But it's really hard the way we're playing basketball to expect the league's best players to play 70 of those 82. It's just, it's a survival test. And like you've pointed out on a couple pods already this season, I think the strong point here is like this isn't load management. What just happened to Cade Cunningham? He has a freaking collapsing load management. Dude. The reasoning that you pointed out to earlier in your point is we were worried about load management. We weren't worried about collapsed lungs, sprained ankles, endless calf strains that are taking over the NBA because this game in this league, 82 games at this level is an insane ask for these athletes. If we're going to insist on that dude, we're going to expect collapsed lungs and calf strains and hamstrings and ankles and that's going to really be a more influential marker of who's all NBA than it should be. Right. Is moments like this and that's it's trash and the league needs to move on.
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Well, and we don't even know how this happened to Kate now. He left their last game against Washington, I think after five minutes with back spasms after a Wizards player kind of fell on top of him during the loose ball scrum. I don't know if it's that, I don't know if it's some acute thing. Just reading my, I put my little doctor's hat on and I read some, you know, WebMD and I always go to Harvard. I trust Harvard. I went to Harvard Medical School's web website and read about it and it really kind of depends on how there's different ways a collapsed lung can happen. An acute event or just like something else. I don't know. But like just you hope he gets well and just all NBA. I, I, I took a rough draft at it maybe a month ago and it's now just blurrier than it was then. But here's, I think, here's what we can say for sure. Well, assuming everyone meets the 65 game threshold, I think four first team spots are decided. Jokic, SGA, Wembanyama and Luka, who by the way, for all the Luca stands out there who are mad at me because I called his ref whining unwatchable a month or so ago, which it is. He was already in my rough draft. First team, all NBA then and not on my guests on that at that point. Now he what he's done. We'll get to the Lakers who are on fire and just swept a little baseball series with the Rockets, who have no functional offense. Kirk seems like a problem, just no functional offense. Seems like no idea what to do on offense. He's been beyond sensational and is now penned in first team, all NBA. And that leaves the fifth spot, which was shaping up to be a really interesting sort of. It's a matter of taste battle between Cade Cunningham. I mean, you might add or subtract one of these names, but here are the five names I had. Cade, Jalen Brown, Anthony Edwards, Donovan Mitchell and Kawhi Leonard were my five guys for that spot. If you take away Cade, it's now four guys for that spot. Three of them get shunted over to second team. And now I've got two second team spots open instead of one second team spot open for a whole pile of guys who may or may not even be eligible. Like, it's complete chaos. But do you agree with my first team projection or did you have another name in addition to those five for the last spot or a name that you wouldn't consider out of those five for the last spot?
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Yeah, I think the league now has a core 4 of foreigners, counting the Canadian, the Joker, Wemby and Luka. They're solid. They're, they're, they're the solid four. That fifth spot is now up there. I had Jaylen Brown in my notes is most likely to what, what a
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surge to the finish right now. I mean, that game against Phoenix the other day was like Woo masterpiece theater
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with Tatum out there too. And it is what he is. You know, he, I think stands to benefit the most because of where Boston is in the standings, because of the growing buzz around how he has carried this team and where they are and how surprising they are. But yeah, Ant Man, I mean, we're going to talk about this. Right hand man might not get to 65 himself.
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This is why, this is why I just sort of just left it blurry. I think Jaylen Brown is probably the favorite. I'm not sure I would pick him yet, but he's definitely surging toward the finish line. You know, the stat nerds hold it against him that the Celtics are. He's always. Jalen Brown's advanced stats have always trailed behind other indicators of his greatness. I'm not 100% sure why that is. I think a lot of it is assist to turnover ratio. He's just not a high assist guy and he is a high turnover guy. Maybe he's not as good of a rebounder. I don't know. It doesn't. I don't know if he doesn't get steals or blocks. I'd have to check. But it's just weird. There are guys like Booker is like this too, where their advanced stats just lag behind both the eye test and their traditional stats. And one of the advanced stats is while the Celtics are significantly better when Jalen Brown is off the floor. And I'm just not really going to hold that against him because they're still really good when he is on the floor. They're really good when he's off the floor because their team infrastructure and their coaching is really good. He's always going to face the best lineups because he starts games and finishes games and whatever they are with him, let's say they're, I think they're like plus 6 per hundred or with him on the floor and plus 11 off the floor, something like that. Still a solid number. It all comes out in the wash to me. Look at opponent shooting like I'm not going to hold that against him. And he's just been awesome and he's been just as good since Tatum came back. And then, you know, if you look at. So then I honestly, like, I think the best player of that group of five this season has been Kawhi Leonard. He's. He's also played the fewest games out of them. And I do think it's okay for this sort of hovering cloud of crap above him of above the treetops as it were, for you to just be like not the year to put Kawhi first team all NBA, but he definitely deserves second team all NBA.
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It is one of the more interesting situations in the league. Kawhi definitely is played maybe his finest year of basketball, certainly since he's been in la. But yeah, I think the other thing I would point to with Jalen Brown is he's been asked to transform his game a lot this season and he's reinvented it. And of course when somebody has that sort of giant uptick in usage and demand and leadership, like we can expect a drop in efficiency. But this guy is been, you know, the centerpiece of the Celtics offense and has added all this mid range stuff, which if that's going to be part of your game, I'm sorry, it's going to have a tax on those efficiency numbers you're referencing. But yeah, he's done it. He's answered the bell. When we were sitting here doing preseason pods, we weren't saying, oh my God, Jalen Brown's probably going to first steam all the NBA. The Celtics are going to have a chance to steal the one seed by the end of this year. It's crazy what's happened there. And for that reason, that's where I say if Cade is falling out, that's Jalen spot. In my opinion. Brunson has an argument potentially maybe Maxi, Donovan, Mitchell, Kawhi, if he gets to 65 games, hello. And if he gets to 65 games, hello. But for me it's Jalen Brown. Zach?
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Yeah, I think right now, I mean the Clippers have lost three in a row. It's not Kawhi's fault. But if they're under.500 at the end of the season, that's a tough, that's a tough one. I think right now would come down if Kate is not eligible to Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell for me and I'm going to reserve judgment toward the end of the season. Now if just put, just put Jalen Brown on right? Let's just for the purposes of this exercise, we'll put Jalen Brown. That puts Ant, Mitchell and Kawhi leading up the second team. That's still only eight guys. We have seven all NBA spots left at that point. And when I first did this a month or so ago, my third team, I think if I'm remembering right, was Jalen Brunson, Kevin Durant, Tyrese Maxey, Jamal Murray and Jalen Johnson. Now you could still make very good cases for all five of those players. Except now two of them would be on second team, second team. Now they also might still be on third team because I mean you can look around the league. I would say the following people's all NBA cases are rising toward the end of the season. Bam. Out of bio. Jaylen Duran. I'm, I'm almost at the point where I think Jaylen Duran has to be on an all NBA team. Devin Booker rising. Evan Mobley rising. Carl Anthony Towns rising. Think Denny Abdi is dropping a little bit. Maxi is just missed some games. Brunson has had kind of a last two weeks, let's say by his standards. Harden is dropping a little bit. Chet is still hanging around about the same spot. And I just named like 12 guys for seven spots. It's wide open. The last two spots on second team all NBA and third team all NBA. And I think will really depend on games played in a lot of cases, how these teams finish. And if, if Duran, I mean, what did he have 36 the other night against the Wizards? Who, you know, if you're a big guy against the Wizards, buckle up. Like get your, get, start, start, shoot, shoot, start shooting early because you don't know what could happen. It doesn't even matter if Alex Star plays or doesn't play, but if he doesn't play, Feast, it's, it's wide open. But I, I think like Cat. Cat has had an awesome last six weeks for the Knicks.
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B
Great.
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And bam just did bam things. And Booker, just a metronome of like, Dylan Brooks is out. Jalen Green has come back and is shooting like 30% and they just keep just staying there at 7 and hanging strong. And he's had a bunch of 30 and 40 point games lately. He's been awesome. It's going to be a very fun race. And he and Duran, I think are rising the most as we get to the end of the season. Any other, Any other thoughts on any of those players? Is anyone a must? Is anyone not like a must? Not for you. Of the guys I named, I think
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B
Katie, at 37, doing what he's doing as a score is, is, is impressive to me. Jalen Johnson, if the Hawks finish, like looks like they're going to finish, I would add him to the most ascendant people.
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He was already in my list. That's why I didn't. But yes, they are. They are soaring, one might say.
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B
Yeah, it's, it's. They're, they're. It's a magic city run down there, I think. Sorry. Luke Cornett, friend of the. Friend of the program.
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A
Um, but yeah, is he a friend of. He's not a friend of my program.
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B
I'll tell you a program that he's a friend of. I was sitting before watching.
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A
He's not, he's not an enemy of the program, to be clear. I'm just not granting him friend of the program.
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B
I'll tell you a quick story. I was sitting watching warmups against the Spurs Sacramento game here in Austin a couple weeks ago, and I was just minding my own business, watching guys shoot around. And I hear out of the corner of my ear I hear, hey, go Sea Dogs. I had my Portland Sea Dogs hat, which I've worn on the Zach Lowe show before.
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A
Sure.
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B
And I look over and who is it? Luke Cornett. And I'm like, I don't know Luke Cornett. I say, hey, Luke, what's up? How do you know the Portland Sea Dogs, man? He's like, well, I played for the Maine Celtics. I used to love to go to the Sea Dogs games. I love Portland, Maine. So that's when me and Luke became friends. Then I didn't know he was going to pen this really divisive letter about the adult entertainment establishment and its relationship with the Hawks. But that's, that's a story further in our time. I'm the big Lou Cornet guy. Chad Holmgren's the one. I would come back to the the Thunder are very good defending champs. The defensive metrics in all NBA conversations never get brought up enough. The Thunder probably deserved to have two players on this. You could get that way. You could argue that. But Jalen Johnson and Chad are the ones that I'm sort of circling the most for sneaking onto third team.
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A
I like all of it. I think Chet, you know, it's going to be very interesting to see how things finish up. I wish he had done a little bit more offensively when SGA missed games. And JDub's been out for most of the season, but he's been just rock solid for them and has made more of a leap on offensive leases. A shooter efficiency wise from three. And I feel very confident. Look, he just doesn't have a power game. That's fine. That's not who he is. But I feel very confident now when he gets a wing or a smaller guy on him and he faces him up and just kind of wriggles his way into like a 13 foot foot jumper. That, that feels almost automatic to me now the way Chad is playing. So those are all. Those are all great choices.
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B
Can I. Can I hit you with one quick question to end this segment potentially for the Zach Low show audience? So if the 65 game rule is trash, do you. Are you in favor of just eliminating that and like you say, trust. Trust the intellect of the voters just to get it right. Hey, we could find these 15 guys that we watch.
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I'm done with it. I'm over it.
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B
Just ruin it. I think that's right too.
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A
Or just around the East. I think I'm ready to now say Boston would scare me the most as an Eastern Conference playoff team like boss, if I had to pick a finals team now and I'm not going back on my Knicks Finals pick. It's it's locked in stone, I think. I think Boston has surpassed Boston. I said this the other night in Brooklyn on the live show. Boston, to me is the most complete and coherent of these four teams atop the Eastern Conference. The team that seems most certain about who they are and how they want to play. The team with the. I mean, it's hard to say that they have a higher two way stability floor than the Knicks, who are top seven, top six in both ends of the floor. Now I just feel more confident watching the Celtics than I do watching the Knicks on a night to night basis. And Tatum has looked unbelievable. He had his best game of the season last night. They blew out the warriors. He had 24, I think. And I just. Tatum is the big question mark, right? Like, can he sustain this? Is he going to run into a conditioning wall at some point? Is the playoff intensity going to sort of interrupt his reintegration and sort of rediscovery of the game? Every game that goes by, he kind of starts to answer that question. And if he looks like this, and if he looks better than this as we go and they get Vuchevich back at some point at least, is just like, hey, we're playing the Pistons or the Cavs with their two bigs, we need just a giant guy to get some rebounds. Like, like they, they, they look awesome right now.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah, they deserve to be the favorites. And one other point, oh, by the way, they won the NBA championship not too long ago with this same core. And I, I can't credit them enough for their drafts and their player development and getting this depth out of nowhere. But for me, it's those core guys, including Joe Missoula and the Jays, that are just, it's just very intimidating. And the odds, the odds favor them. If you look at what FanDuel is saying right now. Zach Lowe, they are the most likely team, according to the books to come out of the Eastern Conference. So I think their advanced numbers suggest they're the most complete team. I think their resume from the last few years suggests it. And Vegas agrees as well.
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A
I trust them in the Knicks, the most out of the top four. Cleveland has had a little bit of a scattershot last 10 games, despite Mobley having some huge gains in that span.
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B
Yeah,
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A
they're as talented as anybody. Like Max Stru just came back and looks like he, I mean, his change of direction on defense looks a little bit slower as you'd expect, but is just bombing threes and looks great. The Jared Allen thing is now getting into like, hey, what's going on with Jared Allen, like why is he not playing now? And it's this knee tendonitis and it's making me a little nervous because I think, you know, we can have reasonable debates over whether the best version of the Cavs has Both bigs playing 28 minutes together or 14 minutes together and a heavy stagger. But the best version of the Cavs has Mobley and Allen healthy and probably starting every game, no matter who the playoff opponent is. Certainly the best version of James Harden's pick and roll game has been with Jared Allen and not with Evan Mobley. And we've just seen Cleveland players miss long periods of time and come back, whether it's Garland or Allen. So I'm officially starting to worry about the Jared Allen thing. And they just feel like what they're they're sort of like Denver east where it just feels like the year where no. 1 they just can't get everyone healthy and going at the same time. And then we just out of the playoff picture. We have to talk about Giannis. Let's take a quick break and then we'll hit the Giannis thing. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. The tournament is here and on. FanDuel it's time to dance. Right now, FanDuel is dropping bonus bets into everyone's account for the tournament. All you have to do is opt in to claim your bonus. You got an upset rolling with the one seed calling for chaos. However you're playing the tourney, FanDuel is giving you a little extra to get in on the action from the very first tip. But don't wait. These bonus bets are only available for a limited time. FanDuel it's time to dance. 21 or over select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus bets which expires seven days after a seat. Max bonus $500 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chadincenetic this episode is brought to you by State Farm. On the court, the best players know when to pass and off of it. You still need teammates who are there when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. With agents and digital capabilities to help you find the coverage you need. You can focus on what really matters, whether that's scoring game winners or just getting through the day. State Farm with the assist Coverage options by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Kirk, I don't know if you saw this, but Shams, actually it was Eric Naim at the Athletic who broke the story yesterday that the Bucks and Giannis are at loggerheads. I think that's the first time I've used the phrase loggerheads in my. I don't think I've ever written the phrase loggerheads before, but I'm using it now over Giannis's return to play from, I think what they're calling a hyperextended knee, which follows a bunch of calf stuff all season long. The Bucks are done. We know they're done. Exactly one week ago today when I had Rob Mahoney on, I said, I'm predicting by March 19th, the Bucks shut Giannis down because they had this two week window where they played all the teams in front of them and if they didn't profit on that two week window, their season was going to be over. It's over. They're done. They're toast. Their roster around Giannis is a complete mess. Miles Turner, top of the list for most disappointing offseason acquisitions and players of the of the whole season. And Giannis still wants to play, according to Eric Naim and then Sham Strania. And the Bucks don't want him to play. And Giannis is mad about it, apparently, and insisting that he wants to play. And Kirk, I'm tired, man. I'm tapping out. Like, just, just wake me up when this is over. Like, wake like you're like, just. What is that? Is that Giannis?
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B
Yeah, it's Giannis. It's my Giannis doll. I always bring it on the Zach Lowe show.
- [31:35]
A
It's just endless now. And like in a month he's gonna tweet something where, like at the, like the Wolf of Wall street thing, I'm never leaving thing he did after the trade deadline where it's like, so wait a second, you're never leaving. And this all was complete bullshit. The first, the last two months of not just Sham's reporting, but the Athletic reporting and other people reporting and you saying, well, I like omelets for breakfast some days, but I might like scrambled eggs for breakfast the next day. And I want to be with the Bucks, but I also want to win a championship. And if those two things are incompatible, if, if, if. But now it's the Wolf of Wall street meme and you're staying forever and now you're mad at the Bucks because they want to shut you down when Your team is six games in the loss column out of the 10th seed and you're hurt so you're going to miss games anyway. So let's just round it up to eight games out in the lost column with 10 games left. And they want you to shut it down. Not. And that's like, that's not even just a lottery play. We know that the Bucks get the second best of their own pick and the Pelicans pick, the best of which will go to the Hawks. That says that's also just like, hey, maybe we just need you healthy, both as a trade piece in the summer or as a basketball player on our team next year. And you haven't been healthy for like a month straight almost the entire season. And this leg stuff is getting a little scary and it's in the best interest of our team on every possible level to shut you down. And it's cool that you want to play. Look in this era of 65 games and load management like Admiral. But that you want to play. I like. I bet I wouldn't even be surprised if you release a statement like, you know, the 10 year old kid who comes to the game in Orlando wants to see me play. Like, I gotta honor that kid. That's great for that kid. That's awesome. This is a perfectly reasonable position for the Bucks to have. I've done my own reporting on it. I think it's all true what's been reported. And this honestly, one of the reasons I'm tired of it is this feels like if I were trying, if I were a player and I wanted to get traded, but I didn't want to look like the bad guy. This feels like a really good manufactured way for that to happen. For me to be like, well, we had this dispute and I wanted to play. I wanted to honor my contract and play. And they didn't. And that pissed me off. It's just all I'm just wake me up. Wake me up when he either signs the extension or they trade him. Because I'm so tired of this endless back and forth.
- [34:05]
B
I haven't heard you talk like this since Jonathan Kaminga was stealing headlines for months and years at a time. It seems like this is the new Kaminga saga, but.
- [34:16]
A
Well, because everyone's going to say there was never anything to see here. Never, never.
- [34:20]
B
Well, that's the.
- [34:21]
A
Where I always go with, this is
- [34:22]
B
a little different than where you went, which is why am I. Why is this in the press? Like, it's just the sign of a very Dysfunct relationship at the very top level of an NBA organization, when the club says one thing and the superstar is back channeling. I've never seen anything like it.
- [34:38]
A
When it comes to the back channeling. There's no back channeling.
- [34:40]
B
There's no channel. He would do that. That's right. That's right. This. But it's just dysfunctional and I'm sick of it. And here's why. I'm sick of it the most. He's one of my favorite players. When he's right, he's one of the best players in the world. I've said it on your show before. I think the Bucks have let him down. I think the team building project around Giannis Antikounmpo has been sort of a failure. Now four or five years running, including the. Miles, Miles. Miles Davis. Miles Turner signing. It's time to move on, dude. It's time to move on. And then people around Giannis will say he's the most stubborn athlete you'll ever meet. One of the reasons this is happening, whether it's I want to play or I'm not going to demand a trade publicly, is that stubbornness. That is a huge part of his character. And here we're seeing it again. He's defiant. I'm. I'm also sick of it. But I'll go a slightly different way. It's time for the divorce. It's time. It is absolutely time. Please just part ways and let Giannis have potentially the second half of his prime here in a different atmosphere.
- [35:45]
A
So I'm going to disagree with you on two fronts. Number one, I think they've done a better job team building than maybe you're giving them credit for. Now we can. Obviously, the Dame Turner thing has been a failure across both. Both transactions. Getting Dame and then losing Dame. For Miles Turner, the draft has been not good.
- [36:07]
B
Right?
- [36:08]
A
But for most teams that pick in that range, it's not good. But if you're going to pick in that range over and over again, at some point, you've got a hit in the twenties and they didn't. And they punted on some of the guys they drafted already, so that. But I will always respect them for being all in all the time the Drew Holiday trade won them a championship like they did. It's. I just can't brand them a failure when they did the thing, as weird as that playoffs was, they have a championship, the first one in 50 years in Milwaukee. And I thought the Dame trade was a smart idea when they did It. I still don't think it was a bad idea. Like I would probably still try it again. I think it was aiming in the right direction. So I can't sit here and be like they, they stick in their failure and they failed and divorce or not. Like I don't really care, honestly. If he wants to be a one team guy, that's cool. He's only 31 years old. There's a world in which they keep him. They have either a really high pick in this draft and they nail it or they have picks to trade this summer and they reorient the reorient the roster around him and who knows what could happen. Like there's a world where that exists and maybe he's fine being a one team guy even if he sort of peters out into late career Dirk sort of pseudo contention and just having good teams and that's fine too. But I like we can talk about what's best for the Bucks. The best. What's best for the Bucks was to probably have traded him a year ago and got a complete bounty for him. I just, I, I mean just wake me up mode when it happens. All right. Are you. Any other thoughts on this?
- [37:35]
B
I would push back. Like as a small market team, you have to. You have to. The draft is the number one way to build your basketball team and they have arguably the worst draft history of the decade, period. And the dead money Damian Lillard choice is now we're going to try to play basketball in the second apron era with one hand tied behind our back on our cap sheet. It's just, it's a debacle, the coaching trend. I think I've said this on your show, but yeah, the coaching changes are also hard for me to defend. So yeah, I know they won. I love that team that won. They do deserve credit. Hand up. Getting Drew out of New Orleans and putting that championship team, that's a great accomplishment. I'm sort of doing the convenient podcast trick where I'm like starting after that. This is, this has not been great.
- [38:29]
A
I mean I think most of us thought the wave and stretch dame sign Miles Turner with cap space was borderline kamikaze mission. I can't believe how not even bad, just not present Miles Turner has been this year. If you just watch entire Bucks games. Like did he play? Was he on the floor? I don't. He just does nothing and he's not even shooting badly from three. I'm looking at him shooting 39. It just feels like he has not been there. Usman Jing though Nice. Nice acquisition. I like Usman Jing. There's a good pickup for them.
- [39:04]
B
The last point on that is to the other thing. The Eastern Conference is not, as you say, chopped liver anymore. Like they're 10th. Look at those teams and the futures of teams like Atlanta and Charlotte and Orlando.
- [39:19]
A
How about Indiana coming back full full strength?
- [39:21]
B
That's what I was just going to say. It looks like Pritchard did it again and you know, they coming back full strength plus a lottery pick depending on how that freaking.
- [39:31]
A
Or, or more intriguing. Now Indiana as a small market team I think would probably lean toward just using the pick and trying to trod two timelines at once. Real interesting trade piece depending on where it falls given that they clearly are going into next season in a win now mentality. I'm just. Just saying. Just saying.
- [39:52]
B
Yeah, I'm just saying. I think that's one of the themes of our podcast today, is that the east is better and deeper than we thought it would be. Boston never went away credit to them. But as you're looking into the future of the Milwaukee Bucks like it's, it's hard to see them competing at the top of this conference.
- [40:12]
A
Now let's talk about the Lakers who are competing toward the top of the Western conference. They are 10 and one in their last 11 games and it's a strong 10 wins. There's Denver wins, there's Houston wins, there's Minnesota wins. It's a strong 10 wins. It's not a Hawksy 10 wins. Forgive me Hawks fans, we'll get to you. It's a strong 10 wins. They are up to seventh in offense for the season, still 20th in defense, but trending right in that 101 span. They've been outstanding on both ends of the floor. That the recent Wins have included LeBron coming back to the team and fitting right in around the Luka show and around Reaves. And it has included the best stretch of Luka Doncic's Los Angeles career. It capped off with assimilating end of game sequence, just not even sequence like four sequences last night. And my favorite of which, and this is the word I've been using now for two weeks to describe how. How Luca has looked better starting around when LeBron went out. And I'm not positing that there's causality there. I'm just saying the word I've used over and over again is zip. He's just playing with more pace and verve and he's not a bursty guy. But that lob he threw, he threw two Lobs last night.
- [41:26]
B
Yeah.
- [41:27]
A
At the end of the game. One I think to Hachimura and one to LeBron. And they were both very similar where Shangun came out to blitz or hedge on the pick and roll because what the fuck else am I going to do if I drop? He's just going to work his way into his mid ranger and burn me that way. And instead of just dancing with it. And this is something he's been doing more in the last couple weeks. Zip straight line drive as fast as Luca can go right to the rim. Here comes the third layer of defense, here comes the lob on the baseline. And then he's talking shit to the fan. Whatever fan made the mistake of going at him early in that game. Not a good, not a good idea. Luka looks like peak Dallas. Luka again.
- [42:05]
B
Yeah.
- [42:06]
A
I think part of it is he seems to have found also a new comfort level with Ayton. He's trusting Ayton a little bit more when they send two to him, including. There was. What game was I watching? I can't remember which one it was. They were blitzing Luka and he was just throwing these lollipops over the blitz to Ayton, they were almost like pop flies in baseball. They traveled maybe four feet, like east, west, but went way high in the air. And he's like, you just go do the rest of it. And he just looks unbelievable defensively. This is why his lazy defensive nights are so frustrating. Because these last three weeks now maybe a month, he's been solid, rock solid, one on one, getting steals, getting his hands in passing lanes. And it's like you can do that. I don't know if he got healthier in the last two weeks. If something clicked. He's been just better all. He's been amazing all around. LeBron has fit right in and this team is now solidly in third in the West. You can think of them what you want with their point differential and this and that and how far can they really get? The projection systems now give them, because they have a pretty easy schedule the rest of the way give them like a 60 to 75% chance of being the third seed in the West. Now that ain't no picnic. The second seed, the delta between 2 and 3 is gigantic in the west based on your first round opponent. Apologies to the Suns, they're just not on the level of these other teams. But like the Lakers are a solid team and you know right now they'd face Denver in the first round. That's bad. I would pick Denver. I'd probably still pick Minnesota over the Lakers in a first round series. I definitely would not pick the Rockets over the Lakers. The Rockets look completely lost, right? But this is such a big win for the lakers these last three weeks because LeBron is fitting in and Luka looks outrageously good.
- [43:58]
B
Well said. I think they're the third best team in the Western Conference and I don't think I would have said that two months ago. I think they, they've, they've got there. I would say. Well, before I talk a lot about the Lakers, one of the other sort of macros trends in the NBA since the All Star break is just the. You talk about the morass. It's sort of a malaise in the west where a bunch of teams are sort of mediocre since the break, including the Timberwolves, the Clippers, the Nuggets.
- [44:26]
A
Nuggets lost to the Grizzlies last night. Jokic had 10 turnovers.
- [44:31]
B
So there has been an opportunity for the Lakers and they've taken it. So, you know, good credit to them. They've been 11 and 4 since the break. They're the third best team in the west since the break. All the markers suggest they're the third best team in the West. What will the nerd say? They'll point to what I call Lowe's Law here, which is you can't go very far in the NBA playoffs with the bottom half defense. You taught us that back in the old school days. I've referenced it before. But Zach Lowe's Law, they have the 20th ranked defense. You brushed over that conveniently. Now there's times when you're playing against Houston and they can't even deal with a double team anymore, apparently where they look fine. But look, when you're the third best team in the west and you say, okay, we're going to have either Anthony Edwards or Jokic in the first round, like I said, and you referenced there too. Would you take them to come out of the first round? Can they get stops against Jamal Murray, Nicole Jokic or Ant Man? Those are big questions. Last year the Wolves blew them off the court in the playoffs. This team is pretty much the same Ayton is there now. So look, a team with LeBron James playing pretty well at age 41, Austin Reaves and as you mentioned, one of the best offensive players in the world, Luka Doncic is going to be great on offense. The question is, in the playoffs, when it becomes chess, are they going to get stops to get out enough stops to get out of the first round against the Lakers or Wolves or whoever it is. And the last thing I would say is as hot as the Lakers have been since all Star break, there's two teams way ahead of them still in that period in the West, OKC and San Antonio who are profiling much better than them in all the key metrics. And this is a proud organization and a fan base that expects banners and little stars on their mid court decal to pop up. And yeah, that's what they do, right?
- [46:30]
A
Including for the didn't they make the in season tournament banner? They did and it has the years on it. So they just add the years if
- [46:35]
B
they win the NBA Cup. Long story short, this is good. I think JJ Redick's done a great job. I think LeBron is playing. By the way, LeBron had two dunks last night that looked like Heat. LeBron one off the log. Six dunks in the game, one fast break dunk where he looked like Usain Bolt turning into Dominique Wilkins like he used to in Miami. Just if he's playing like this, they got a chance against anybody, spurs included, Thunder included. They have to be happy with where they are. But the nerds are still skeptical because of Zach Lowe's law. This defense is not going to get them to the NBA Finals.
- [47:13]
A
That's always been their ceiling to me is the chance team, the puncher's chance team. And now they've got much more than a puncher's chance against their favorites. To me against Houston and Minnesota, the way they've played now they've won two games in a row without ant. That's encouraging. But the, the weirdness of their season, that's a if I I said I would pick Minnesota over the Lakers in a playoff series, that's a 6040 proposition at this point. Now the other thing that happened last season when the Lakers and the Wolves played in the first round is Luka was not 100% and LeBron was not close to 100%. And that's just always a built in risk with a guy who's 41 years old, as incredible as he's looked. And so who knows, that could happen again. And I would not take I just trust Denver's track record too much. Although that recent Lakers win was a really great win for them over Denver. But you can't count like we've I remember vividly. I've told this story before, so forgive me. In 2021, I believe it was the 2021 playoffs. There was jockeying at the End of the season where the Clippers kind of semi backed into a first round matchup against the Mavericks. And it was, they had beaten the Mavericks in the bubble the year before and I think it was a 3, 6 matchup maybe. And I remember talking to a Clippers assistant coach before the playoffs about this. Like it was, it was not subtle. They wanted to play Dallas. I think they were trying to avoid the Lakers, actually, if I'm remembering this correctly, and I remember talking to a Clippers coach who shall not be named. He said, yeah, we think this is a five game series for us. And I told the coach, I was like, boy, I think you're wildly underestimating the dude on the other team because that guy is a fucking monster. And if you remember, that was a seven game series that required the, maybe the greatest game Kawhi Leonard has ever played to dig out game six for the Clippers who then won game seven at home. I remember talking to that coach afterward and he was like, yeah, that was. I don't want to see that guy ever again. And this is, this is. I've gotten a lot of hate from the Luca stands in the last few weeks because I called his ref baiting unwatchable, which people misinterpreted because people want to do this as saying his game is unwatchable. That's never been the case. And I have to defend myself because I go to the Balkans every summer and the Balkans are going to come at me. Like when Jokic did not win mvp, when Embiid won mvp, I went to Croatia and I was assaulted by Balkan by all my basketball friend buddies. I was single handedly responsible for it. Here are some of the things I've said about Luka. In August of 2025, after I got back from Vegas, I said on this podcast, I don't think it's an open and shut case that I would take SGA over Luka for the coming season. Now that has proven to be a foolish statement because SGA is going to win the MVP again and has been just. I actually just voted. Do you do Ringer 100?
- [50:01]
B
I do. I have to get my ballot and don't tell them I'm a little late right now. Did you put SGA first?
- [50:06]
A
I put SGA number one for the first time. I put Jokic 2. So that looks like a foolish statement. That's what I said about, about Luca. I took the over on the Lakers this year on the House Simmons Low over Under podcast. Nobody else took the over. I was the only one who took the over. So I just don't want to hear this. And when, even when I did my all NBA thing a month ago, which is maybe the same podcast, when I said his ref winding, I was unwatchable. I had him rough draft on the first team. Luka is an unimpeachable offensive force who is absolutely terrifying when he's on his game. When he's making his step back threes, there's like nothing you can do except hope that the defense is not good enough. And you mentioned the word chess with jj. I don't really know how this is happening where they're playing like Canard, who's been sensational, and LeBron and Luka and Reeves all at the same time and surviving defensively.
- [51:02]
B
Yeah, I think.
- [51:03]
A
I think part of it is JJ has made them a really unpredictable team. So they'll drop into a zone now and then they've done it less the last couple games against the Rockets, they'll drop into a zone and then the zone will sort of morph into a man, the man defense and morph back into his own. Against the Rockets, you see, you saw them start switching everything and then doubling Durant hard when Ayton would get on Durant. You just kind of don't know what's coming with them defensively. And I think. I think that's really helped. And LeBron. You want to hear some LeBron stats?
- [51:33]
B
Hell, yeah.
- [51:34]
A
So I went on the tracking data this morning because I was watching the first of the Rockets games, the first of the baseball series, which was on the six three days ago, and I took it. I just noted in my notes, I was like, I don't think LeBron has run a pick and roll. And it's. There's three minutes left in the first half. I don't think he's been the ball handler to pick and roll yet. Flag that. So I went up and I looked at the tracking data, which starts in 2013. So we're missing Cleveland part one in the first couple years of Miami, and I just looked at the fewest pick and rolls LeBron has run in any game since then. I brought up every game. And I just looked at that. Against Chicago on March 12, a win for the Lakers, he ran three pick and rolls. That's his second lowest number in any game in the entire tracking database, which now goes back. What? What did I say? 13 years. Against the Magic on February 24th, he ran four pick and rules. That's tied for his third lowest. And in that Rockets game, he ran five that's tied for his fourth lowest. Like he has clearly come back and accepted his version, I like to say his version of old man Jason Kidd on the Mavericks when he was just like, I'm physically limited. I'm going to just kind of invent this position where I'm a point guard and I just manipulate defenses who are already in rotation, like someone else has gotten them in rotation. The ball swings to me and I make the extra pass or the cut or whatever, just flummox. I just make the next level IQ play after the better player. Luka in this case has broken down the defense or Reaves has broken down the defense. And you see him just like these extra passes are flying. He's cutting into open space. But the difference between Old Man LeBron and Old Man Jason Kidd is he still has the throwback games like last night. He still has the run the two man game with Reeves and LeBron. And if I get a switch and there's a guard on me, I can beat the hell out of him in the post and actually draw two and kick the ball out. This is, I said before the season, like when Rich Paul released that statement about that seemed to evince some unhappiness with how things are going in la. I remember saying, like, he should be so fucking psyched about playing with LeBron, playing with Luka and Reeves, because he, he gets to be this version of himself, which is the version of himself he should want to be at age 41 if he wants to win. And I don't know if it took him sitting out for those three weeks when the Lakers got rolling, but this is exactly who they need him to be. And guess what? He can still drop 30 on a given night like he did last night against the Rockets. This has been a joy to watch. And look, I don't, to be 100% clear, I don't think they could beat the thunder of the spurs in a playoff series. Like, I'm not even sure what kind of chance they would have. Those teams are just so goddamn good. But. But for What? What looked 20 games ago, like, this is just kind of a gap year before we figure out like how to resolve this LeBron thing and we got picks to trade over the summer. This is a lot of fucking fun. And they're. As long as that dude is on the floor 77, they're dangerous in any individual game.
- [54:39]
B
I think they could beat the Spurs. As the spurs guy, I wouldn't pick them too. But as everybody points out, the spurs are babies. This is their first time through and I don't know if they're going to react perfectly to, to bad moments, bad games. I would pick them. As I said, The spurs are 13 and two since the All Star break. The Thunder 13 and one. The Lakers are are one in five against those teams this year, Zach. And that one win was one of the ugliest games of the year. There were 66 fouls called in 48 minutes. When the Lakers beat the spurs in November.
- [55:16]
A
I think I blocked that out of my mind.
- [55:17]
B
I don't even remember 88 free throws, something like that. It was a three hour just slog of basketball. But dude, this is a great story. And off ball LeBron, I think he nailed it. He has the potential to be the smartest off ball player in the league and a real problem like whether it's catching lobs or in transition. But he knows exactly where to be. And if it's true that he's accepted this role, he can really help this offense go to the moon. Because like you said, Luka Doncic is offensive efficiency in a can and Austin Reaves ain't far behind. They're always going to have one of those two dudes on the floor in a playoff series. They're going to be very, very difficult to guard. And I think that offense can keep them in almost any game. So I think they're clearly establishing themselves as a third team in the Western Conference which is better than I thought they would be. I just think that that that top rung of two teams including the defending champs. And the other thing I'd say about the spurs matchup is if you look at the Lakers stats, the nerdy stuff, they are one of the best two point scoring teams we've seen in a very long time.
- [56:33]
A
Shooting like a thousand percent in the restricted area in the mid range.
- [56:36]
B
But guess what? Victor Wembanyama does better than any player of the era. So that's, that's really a strength against strength. And I'm a Spurs homer, I get it. But I would take the Wemby effect to cancel out a lot of that because he is such a geometry changing two point defender. But anyway I'd end with this. I would love to see the third seeded Lakers play the two seeded spurs in the second round of the NBA playoffs. That is basketball paradise. Let's, let's, let's have that happen.
- [57:07]
A
Couple of other quick Western Conference notes through these teams. Denver, just another goofy loss last night. You know I like from Memphis by the way, Javon Small. That's my, that's my nice thing about a tanking team for the day.
- [57:17]
B
I watched that game. I was very disappointed with Denver down the stretch. They're like down five or six against the team that's, let's face it, not great. And they just couldn't put it together, especially getting stops.
- [57:29]
A
Oklahoma City. Look, Jalen Williams is going to come back, J Dub. Jalen Williams, I. I assume. And I think they are really, really slow playing this because. And I respect the fact that once the injury started to happen and the spurs kind of derailed their season a little bit in starting in the in season tournament, the Thunder clearly shifted from we're chasing history to we're just going to try to prioritize winning a title. When he comes back, I'm very interested to see how he looks because he started to look like the wrist injury was done and then he had one hamstring and then he came back from that for two games and he looked like Jalen Williams again. And then he re aggravated it if he looks like Jalen Williams. The way A.J. mitchell is playing, the way Chet Holmgren has elevated his game, the way Kayson Wallace showed, like, hey, I can get you 20. It's been a quiet since Shay got back. I can get you 20. I mean, Shay's unbelievable. And McCain, I mean, it's just, every game is just a kick in the nuts to Philly fans right now. It's just, it's just 26 more points last night. The Sixers have like, Quentin Grimes is the offense right now and this guy is just, oh, yeah, I'm the ninth guy and I come in and I might score 26. You know, they'll unleash Caruso. Like there's a chance that the Thunder get healthy and we're like, oh, this is not a rap. Because I just think the spurs and the Nuggets in particular are that good. But. And Houston, they. If, if this ends with like just a first round flame out, they become maybe the single most interesting offseason team because they have a million picks, they have young players anybody would want. We all know that Giannis might be in play again. And they just look like they've completely lost the plot offensively. They just, they just have no. And look, they thought they lost the Steven Adams ingredient, which was huge for them. Fred Van Vlietz missed the entire season. I thought people slept on how important that was going to be. They just look like they have no idea what to do on too many possessions. And I, me personally, if they're going to save this offense. They're 22nd in offense since January 5th. 22nd. They're 27th in turnover percentage since January 5th. That's like a lot of games that their offense has just sucked. If they're going to save this, I think they need to just Start Reed Shepherd.
- [59:52]
B
100% they need.
- [59:54]
A
Or at the very least there, they need to just play Shepard Sengoon and durant together with two of Eason, who's in a hellacious slump. Jabari Smith Jr. Amen Thompson, Finney Smith, whatever. Like that trio has enough shooting and playmaking juice to like, at least just ungum the works a little bit. That's my Houston thought. They just need to go all in on those three guys playing together.
- [60:19]
B
I have a lot of Houston friends in my life and I've been saying to them, hey, look, if you took two key rotation pieces off almost any team Thunder probably excluded, that's a season ending situation. So you lose Van Fleet, you lose Adams. Those are two of your leaders, your morale guys, your culture drivers, whatever you want to say. You were in a tough spot. What's interesting is after that happened, we were all on podcasts like this saying, man, Houston's offense is going to suck without Van Fleet. Who's going to be the point guard? I meant Thompson's not a real point guard. I remember all that. And then they had incredible offensive marks in the fall despite all that. And it was largely driven by Stephen Adams and ridiculous second chance points and rebound percentage numbers that we've never seen in the modern era. He goes down that sort of big sort of stipend they were getting from those rebound offensive rebounds, second chance points goes down. And now they sort of resemble the team we all thought we were going to see after the Van Fleet injuries. Like, who's going to get this team into a basic pick and roll? KD gets double teamed against the Lakers. It's like a third grade basketball team. Nobody knows what to do.
- [61:28]
A
I haven't seen a team more at risk of backcourt violations than the Rockets in the last two weeks.
- [61:33]
B
It's.
- [61:34]
A
They've got a few. They've had a few.
- [61:35]
B
Yeah, KD got one because he was just like being lazy walking the ball up. They're also starting to exhibit sort of that grumpy vibe that we've seen with some of KD's teams over the last few years. It's just not great.
- [61:50]
A
You might pop up in a text thread. Be careful.
- [61:53]
B
I love Kevin Durant hook em Horns, by the way. And I still think Kevin is an all NBA performer right now in any offense that has Kevin Durant should be pretty good. So that's why it's sort of stunning to see this happen. And I do agree that Imei, who I also adore has been too slow and too conservative with Reed Shepherd. You need offense, you need shooting, you need spacing. That's your solution to this issue. So I think it's fair to expect IME to play him more as we approach the playoffs because we're going to need more offense from this team if they're going to compete to even get out of the first round.
- [62:31]
A
At this point, who do you think the offensive oriented lead assistant is that the Rockets are going to force Emea Doka to hire this summer? We should start taking odds on that. By the way, Shangun, quietly 50% from the field is just not good enough for a big guy who shoots as much as he does. His jumper has fallen off completely, but his two point shooting isn't good enough either. But that's a different story.
- [62:51]
B
Okay, let's wait. You didn't get Let me answer the question. I was going to say Mike d'. Antoni. Oh yeah, offensive assistant. He's worked with Ema in Brooklyn before. He lives in Texas. He's turned a couple of bad offenses into good offenses over the years. Bring in Mike.
- [63:07]
A
It's a good name. I'm just positing it. All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll caw our way out of the this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. When you pull off a superior play, like blocking a winning shot to push the game into overtime, it feels good. It even gives you shivers sometimes. All the best moments are served ice cold like the that. Just like Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA, Ultra is a superior light beer with only 95 calories and a crisp, refreshing taste. And you know what makes it even more superior? Michelob Ultra is giving fans like you the chance to win some incredible prizes, including courtside seat tickets. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now@michelob ultra.com Courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open U.S. residence 21 or over. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry period. See official rules@michelobaltra.com Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. TaxAct is your offensive coordinator for tax season guiding you step by step with your maximum refund guaranteed. Get tips along the way. Add Expert Assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you with Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See tech sac.com for details. Podcast. Look when you win 11 games in a row in the NBA, I don't really care if six of them. So by my math more than 50% have come against the Nets, right? Who had 24 points in the first half against the Thunder, the Wizards and the Mavericks, who are at least like Frisky but also not organizationally aimed at winning. Another one of the wins so we're up to seven was the Bucks without Giannis? Yeah, another one of the wins, so we're up to eight was Philly without Embiid, Paul George and Vijay Edgecombe. Another one of the wins so we're up to nine. Out of the 11 was Portland without Danny Abdia. Time Lord, who's been sneakily good for them off the bench. And Shane Sharp is out for a while now. The last two Orlando. That was a big win and it secured the tiebreaker for the Hawks. And then one win over the Bucks with Giannis, which you could take or leave. Whether that's a good win or not. My point is maybe the least convincing 11 game winning streak in the history of the NBA. I don't know. But it must be remarked upon because the hawks are now 38 and 31 and they are two games out of the fifth spot in the Eastern Conference. I I'm not sure how this the defense is number one in the NBA over those 11 games. The offense is number two. I'm not sure how much of this is actually going to work against good teams when they get a consistent diet of it. But I'll tell you this, this is a pretty effective pivot away from Trey Young. And I mean poor Zingis was never really there. I love watching them play because they play a bunch of weird players like Dyson Daniels is a weird player. Teams guard him with centers now because he just will not take threes at all. Jalen Johnson is treated like kind of a non shooter. He's an okay shooter. He's. He's sort of a point forward player. Kaminga and Jalen Johnson is a weird mix, right? And the numbers so far haven't been good, although there have been glimpses of it being good. And so they have to play Weird. And they play weird really, really well. They're like. They're like a very elusive offense. There's a lot of randomness to it. There's a lot of constant motion to it. Be like, did they just run a. A side pick and roll between CJ McCollum and Nikhil Alexander Walker? Like, what? Yeah, they did. What? Just. And then they just. Did they swing that into a Dyson Daniels, Jalen Johnson pick and roll? That. That was weird. A lot of it is enabled by the fact that Onyeka Kongu has become an A plus stretch big man, particularly from the corners, and so they can use everybody else in that space in the middle of the. They are a blur to watch on offense. Their principle is randomness. And part of that is if you watch every possession, there's always something happening. There's always like a ghost screen or a flare screen or, like, some action happening at full speed when the ball crosses half court with, like, 20 on the shot clock. Like, here comes Gabe Vincent. I'm just going to jog up, sprint up, set a fake screen for Jalen Johnson. And like, there's 21 on the shot clock. The other team's like, what's happening? And the ball just keeps moving. And they make chicken salad out of spacing. That should. That should be chicken. Something else. They're starting five with CJ McCollum when they moved him in over recess, which is a whole other story, is plus 160 points in 236 minutes. Yeah, that. Plus 160. There's only one lineup in the entire NBA that has a fatter, raw plus, minus plus than that lineup. Can you guess what it is?
- [68:08]
B
Oh, God. I knew you were going to do this. My head goes straight to the Thunder. But they've had so much chaos in their lineups. Is it an Area 51 lineup in San Antonio?
- [68:19]
A
Nope, it is. The Charlotte Hornets starting.
- [68:23]
B
Oh, yeah, there you go. They're a buzzsaw, too. No pun intended.
- [68:26]
A
And look defensively again. We'll see if this holds against real teams, but one thing the Hawks are, is they're pretty fucking big from like 2 to 4. And a congu is a little undersized at the 5, but he can switch. He can do a lot of different things, but when they have, like, Kaminga and Johnson and Daniels out there, it's a. It's just a lot of arms taking up space. This is really fun to watch. I wouldn't really be like, worried about them if I were one of the top four teams in the East. But this has made the, this is a fun late season run. They've discovered something and now their schedule gets real tough and we're going to see. Yeah, like, what it is. But what, what have you seen?
- [69:03]
B
Well, I had a piece due on like Monday or Tuesday, and I had to write about the Hawks and the biggest question was like, is this real? You know, so I settled in. Zach Lowe, very excited to watch that Magic game because it was like their first real opponent in this streak and Orlando had been playing very well. So I watched that game very intently. And Nikhil Alexander Walker was by far the best player in that game. He set a career high. He had 41 points, which is a stunning development. And everything you said is true. Jalen Johnson is electric, but they're long and they're big and they're athletic and they're active. Dyson Daniels is a nightmare. You can put him on the other guys, the other team's best player, and he doesn't need to score. That's a huge luxury. I'm huge on C.J. mcCollum who, who isn't happy for C.J. mcCollum here.
- [70:01]
A
He's done. He's meant so much more to the Hawks than I anticipated and shame on me for sort of not writing him off as an aging veteran. But he's been outstanding for them and he's exactly the kind of player they don't have. Like Nikhil Alexander Walker is averaging 21 a game, most improved player candidate, as is maybe Jalen Johnson and on and on, but he's like a hybrid guard. CJ is a straight like, pick and roll ace that can get buckets from it from anywhere. And they just didn't have a guy like that. And he's, he's been good and they can protect him on defense and he
- [70:40]
B
has a leadership element that will be great for a young team. He's won a Game 7 in Denver as a, as a leading scorer. I believe in that game and I would be worried about them. We mentioned if, if Detroit enters in
- [70:56]
A
a weakened state, that's, that's, that's my exception. I should have, I should have mentioned that if the crippled Detroit is. This is a bat, this is a problem for them.
- [71:05]
B
And I like Quinn Snyder, but I really want to give credit to my friend Ansi Sala, who I work with in San Antonio. And I'm biased because of that, but folks get to know that name. I mean, R.C. buford loved him. He's the, now the GM of the Hawks. Steve Kerr and Bob Myers Poached him to run the cap in Golden State. They loved him there. Atlanta swooped out of nowhere and gave him an assistant GM title a couple years ago. And since he's been in charge, you know, they, they fleeced the Pelicans in that deal to get a lottery pick. They obviously got off Trae Young and they signed Akil Alexander Walker's act to what might be one of the best deals in the league. If this is going to be who he's going to be, I think it's a four year, 62 and a half million dollar situation. So credit to Onsi and the leadership there for, for taking the Trae Young issue and, you know, building a new identity for this team on the fly. Maybe it's not this year, but I'm very bullish on the Hawks future in a way that I wasn't a year ago. I think he deserves credit. I think Quinn Snyder's going to be a good coach for a few years to come and this team really could gel into something that threatens to compete for Eastern Conference championships in the coming years.
- [72:21]
A
Well, they have a ton of assets. You know, we'll see where that Pelicans pick ends up. People have sort of given up on it because I think it's slotted at seventh now and the Pelicans keep winning. They won again last night. You know, seventh still gives you like a 35% chance at a top four pick. Like that's. If you, if you told me there's a 35% chance you're going to get struck by lightning if you walk outside your house. But if you don't get struck by lightning, there's a million dollars in cash waiting for you. It's a lot of money, but like 35%. I might die. I could struck, get struck by lightning. I don't know what I'm going to do there.
- [72:53]
B
It's a deep draft too. I mean, of all the drafts, to have seven in, you know, the Acuff who. There's going to be players at 5, 6 and 7 that, that scouts are going to be very excited for.
- [73:05]
A
I, they're very well positioned for the future. It just. Boy, if they could do the draft, the 2024 draft over again and get Castle or Shepherd or even Sar, because Reese Sachet, he looks fine. Like he's at least still engaged defensively and playing the right way, I just would like more than just like engaged in playing the right way for the number one pick in a draft. And I realized that that was sort of a mystery. Box at the top. But that pick looks like it's going to haunt them a little bit when you look at the alternatives, including Castle, who just. It's just outrageous.
- [73:35]
B
He's my favorite player in the sport right now. I love watching this dude play. So intense, so committed to making the right play on offense, so committed to being one of the biggest pests on the ball, on defense. And just that intensity you can see in his face. I just love watching him play, man. And yeah, to think about that draft is interesting now, right, because he was. He was fourth and clearly if they redrafted, he would be first, second or third at this point. The spurs also own that Atlanta pick. So this year, which they are not excited about this current winning streak that the Hawks are on.
- [74:15]
A
No Castle, by the way, I don't know if you listen to Chris Ryan and I picked our Marcus Saul All Stars, our five favorite players to watch. Castle was the only common denominator we had in our respective starting fives. And you mentioned, like Lakers, spurs as a matchup. I would pay money every game just to watch Castle guard Luca, because he wants all of it. You're going to talk shit at him. He doesn't care. You're like an established superstar, super duper, duper star. He doesn't care. By the way, he's on my. You want to just hear my long list for most improved player? This is how long it is. It's like 20 names long. Oh my God, this is going. There's no order to this other than I went through the rosters in alphabetical order. So it starts with the Hawks. Jalen Johnson, Nikhil Alexander, Walker, Onyeka Akongwu, Jalen Brown, Nemi Esqueda, Musa Diabate, Jalen Tyson, Matas Bouzelis, IO Dasumnu, Jalen Duran, Danis Jenkins. I never know what to do with the Dennis Jenkins types who go from like not playing at all. They did play, so they're not rookies. Amen. Thompson, Jaime Hawkez Jr. Ryan Rollins, Anthony Black. If he qualifies. This is a 65 game rule one. Colin Gillespie, Tyrese Maxey. I'm ready to cross off. He's already too good. Denny Abdia, Stefan Castle, Brandon Miller, Keonte George, if he qualifies and I think sneaky candidate. Now your mileage may vary on second year guys like Castle being eligible. Donovan Clingan. I don't know if people are watching what's going on in Portland because it's a little bit of a mess with all the injuries and the lack of Point guard plays now and then scoots back. He's been a little, a little, you know, he's making some threes but the turnovers are outrageous. Clingan is just set his career high. Last night he had 29 points. The three point shot is semi real. He's just a monster rebounder. And like I don't know any of those names. You like any of those names?
- [76:02]
B
I love all of them. And it made me think I was, I was coming in today and I was like, man, this should probably be a most improved team. Like because there's. The list is pretty long and choosing one of them. And again the criteria for different people is so different. Right? Is Jalen Brown, Brown even eligible? Are second year guys eligible? I don't think there's a right answer.
- [76:21]
A
You could make a Wemby case. I, I wouldn't make it because he was already so good.
- [76:25]
B
But, but yeah, you can, you can do that. I think Duran and the two Hawks guys are, are my favorite. Maybe it's recency bias with Alexander Walker, but I didn't think he was a 40 point scorer. So I would if I had to name two, I go Duran, who has just become unbelievable, a different category of big man. And I love his game and I love his future. I love what he's done for one of the better teams in the league with that improvement. And then Jalen Johnson, who in a Trey Young list universe has finally gotten to sort of be the epitome of what we're talking about, this long, active, athletic version of the Hawks. So yeah, those would be my three.
- [77:10]
A
And I think the Hawks are now. We'll see. I mean their schedule is Houston away, Golden State, Memphis, they better win those two games. But Golden State is the saddest watch in the NBA right now. Apologies to G. Santos and his family. He's been really good at Detroit, at Boston vs. The Kings, Boston again, Orlando, Brooklyn and then they finish New York, Cleveland, Cleveland, Miami and all of those teams might have something to play for in the last, you know, whatever games of the season. And they do not have the tiebreaker. Toronto has won the tiebreaker over them and they do have the Hawks have the tiebreaker over Orlando and Philly. The projection systems give them about a 25% chance of avoiding the play and of being fifth or sixth. So the projection systems are still factoring in the schedule and all of that, but undeniably fun to watch. And every, every part of Dyson Daniels game other than three point shooting on offense has leveled up this Season. He's also like to add to the randomness. You put centers on him, he'll set screens in the pick and roll. He'll make pocket passes as the ball handler, he'll take pocket passes and score. And he's become one of the great masters of the quarterback keeper, fake, handoff drive.
- [78:25]
B
He's great and they're really happy with him. Despite some of the woeful three point numbers, some of the most woeful three point numbers I've seen in a long time. I don't have it in front of me, but just safe to say it's stunning. Here's the question I want to ask you. I mean, look at the Eastern Conference playoffs, which by the way, the best story in the NBA over the last couple of months is just the Eastern Conference first round is going to be more entertaining than any of us thought it would be.
- [78:47]
A
We need, we need Charlotte to get in though.
- [78:49]
B
That's what I was going to say. Who do you want to see? 6, 7, 8. And if there was a team that you were like, okay, I don't want to see them in the playoffs. Who are you most sort of rooting for to be in a playoff series? Charlotte, obviously.
- [79:03]
A
So I, I have four teams out of Toronto, Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, Philly, Charlotte. Out of pure, like who are the most fun to watch and who are the most interesting as first round matchups. This is going to really make people in Toronto mad. I don't really like watching the Raptors. I'm sorry. Charlotte has got to be there. Miami, look, you know I have a soft spot for Miami. Hashtag E Culture. I love Bam. Bam just had 83 points. They go in. So that's two. I think Orlando, just because they've got a little bit more postseason juice and experience than the other teams, as ugly as they've been to watch, if they can ever get Franz back and Anthony Black back, they could be legitimately like a dangerous team. And then, so then I'm picking between Toronto, Atlanta and Philly as the fourth team. Who do. I just want to watch? Want to watch. I can't hang my head on the Philly thing. I can't. I can't be like, well, when they get everybody back and that they'll be great to watch. I just, I can't assume that that's ever going to happen. So I will just. You know what? I'll reward Toronto for having the best record so far and I'll pick them over Atlanta. But apologies to my kakah. I don't know, I don't remember what the over under for the Hawks was before the season. It. It's probably still in play now. I gave up on it. I issued a formal apology for to everyone who took the over because I took the over and I hammered it in as a lock. I bet they can still get it.
- [80:32]
B
Yeah, I don't remember what it was. I would have guessed Atlanta hawks preseason right around 500. Yeah, maybe.
- [80:38]
A
Yeah.
- [80:38]
B
42, 43. So they're 38 and 31. They were 27 and 31. So it's quite a run. And yeah, I'm picking them because I do love to watch them as you perfectly described. They're kind of weird. They play hard af as the kids say. And I love the CJ McCollum Renaissance. I'm not going to do what you did and pick teams who I don't want to see in the playoffs and get all those.
- [81:04]
A
I picked teams who proactively wanted to see. I love watching all NBA teams give me all the Brandon Ingram mid range jumpers.
- [81:14]
B
I think Charlotte could win a first round series because the way I look at the game, zach it since January 1st. What are they number one in net rating in the entire NBA like in the year 2026. They profile like they're a very good team. I've seen them beat Boston in Boston. I've seen them notch victory after victory. They are the most active and most efficient three point shooting team in the NBA. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Brandon Miller is clicked, Lamelo is clicked and obviously Khan is incredible. I'm the top three seeds in the east have to be a little bit nervous for a variety of reasons but Charlotte's got to be one of those reasons.
- [81:59]
A
Absolutely. They could win a first round series. Any quick thoughts on expansion before we go?
- [82:04]
B
Yeah, my biggest thought is if they go to 32 teams they got a chance to get rid of conferences and do just everybody plays everybody wants. We have 62 games. Then we turn the NBA cup into a 32 team single elimination tournament in the middle of the season, 31 more games in the break. So it'd be sort of like an English Premier League style table where we'd have 32 teams, everybody plays everybody. Once the playoffs are straight seeded and the NBA cup becomes a really cool thing in the middle of the season where we pay everybody plays. It's March Madness for the NBA. Much easier to understand and I hope we need to reduce the number of games. I feel like it's the league can support 32 teams. I hope it comes with a new structure for the league itself. But I, I've seen some people say, hey, the league can't support 32 teams. I think that's nonsense. I think there's enough good basketball talent on planet to support 32 NBA teams assuming they get tanking. Right. But yeah, I, I would like to see the NBA use this as an opportunity to restructure the schedule and the conferences.
- [83:19]
A
I'm glad you said the T word because all of these things are interconnected. No, there is no NBA issue that is separate from all the others. And I agree with you. I think the talent dilution thing is, you know, even Bobby Marks tweeted last night when The Nets had 24 points at halftime, maybe we should not have expansion because look, look at the score now. I don't know if he was talking about tanking or just, are we going to just have two more bad teams because we're spreading the talent too thin or a little bit of both. I think the talent is there if the incentives are tweaked to make abject tanking less profitable. Not only that, I think what you're also really talking about is if you're going to add two more teams and 30 more roster spots or whatever, it's not all talent is not the same. I think you need to think harder about what talent do you want to be spread around the league. And if there is a. Some dilution of talent at the bottom, if the. If the last four roster spots on every team are maybe not quite as impactful as they are now, then you maybe want to spread the top talent out a little bit more now. There are all sorts of dangerous consequences to that. And do we really want to chip away at a team's ability to keep its best players together? But you bring back up tanking. I don't know what they're going to do about tanking. Adam Silver clearly wants to do something more dramatic than, well, you can't do top eight protected and all that crap anymore. I don't know if you've heard from teams. I've heard from teams. There's a little bit of like a wait, how soon do you want to do this? Because we have all these picks that we've traded for or acquired or whatever that are based on rules. Like, is this really coming in 2027? There might be a little fight from some corners about the speed of it, but something big is going to happen. And the more you chip away at the connection between the team's record and where it picks in the draft, you do sort of chip away, at least at the ability to game your way to the best players in the league, which is obviously part of the goal of eliminating, tanking or cutting it. And if you do that attached to it, you could do other things to make it easier for bad teams to get good players who are already in the league. Free agency trades and all that. And, you know, I've mentioned maybe you eliminate restricted free agency. I had a team, I had someone with a team proposed to me. If you have a top 10 pick or something, you should have to win a certain number of games in their first three seasons, or else you don't get they become unrestricted after their fourth year. So things like that, that give other teams more access to the best players and the best young players, all those things are connected. But I don't. I'm not worried about the, oh, this is going to be such a bad product because of talent dilution. I think the league can absolutely add two more teams. And beyond that, how fucking great is it going to be to have the Seattle supersonics?
- [86:05]
B
Yeah, tell me about it.
- [86:06]
A
I mean, we're of the age where the green and yellow mean something to us, where Rain man means something to us, and the glove and George Carl's frenzied defenses and just the fans were unbelievable. The uniforms are iconic. The name is iconic. They'll get the name and history back and all that. We need Vegas. We'll see what they do with it. And there's obviously more competition to get that team than there is in Seattle. I just would be so delighted to have the Sonics back in my life.
- [86:33]
B
Yeah. And I was. I saw a photo of Kevin Durant in the yellow Sonics jersey and I was like, man, that's a great looking uniform. And it would be really cool to see Kevin go back and maybe even Westbrook go back. The Westbrook play there now. He's right after that. But, like, see Kevin back in Seattle right before he retired, I think would be a pretty awesome moment for that fan base. Maybe I'll even play for the Sonics. I could see something crazy like that happen if it was last year. But yeah, I mean, it's a criminal situation. What happened there. As a basketball fan, the fact that you and I haven't been to Seattle to cover a series or interview a player in so long, like, it's such a great city and a great fan base. So I'm a lot more excited about that than Vegas. Do you have any Thoughts on what you would name a team in Las Vegas?
- [87:26]
A
I think it needs to be a very Vegas Y name. Obviously they leaned all the way into that with Aces. I don't quite know the origin of Golden Knights for the hockey team. And then they just got the Raiders. Who are the Raiders?
- [87:41]
B
The Raiders.
- [87:42]
A
I'm a sucker for the. I'm a sucker for the Raiders. You just did the Berman. The Oakland Raiders. Just win, baby. One of the greatest catchphrases in the history of sports. All it is is a guy saying just win, baby. And it's like just. That's commitment to excellence. It's just anybody could say that. But with the Raiders colors and everything and it looks awesome. So I think we need to aim. You know, I. Somebody had. I think maybe it was even Bill proposed like the Rat Pack. Something rat. I think that's a little. But something. It's got to be Vegas. We got to lean. If we're having a team in that silly place. And I say that affectionately. We've got to lean into it.
- [88:17]
B
Yeah, I agree they've done great with the Gold Knights. But yeah, I don't have any ideas on what they should name, what their uniforms will look like, what their court design will look like. But that's all going to be really exciting.
- [88:29]
A
I don't think you can. I just think Aces is such a great card themed name that I don't think. Can you. Is there a better cards themed name than that? I think you can't do it because you'd be the second best card theme named in town.
- [88:41]
B
So I saw somebody say the Royals is in like a royal flush, but that's close to the Kings.
- [88:47]
A
Got a baseball team called the Royals.
- [88:48]
B
Why not just do the Aces and celebrate basketball in Vegas together? Like why do we have to have separate names? I mean the Vegas Aces is such a great brand. Becky Hammond, my former coworker in San Antonio has won three championships there. No big deal. But yeah, why not? Why can't we just do the Aces for the men's team as well?
- [89:09]
A
I mean, I don't like that idea personally. I want every dev teams to have their separate identities. But I can't. I'd have to. I'm going to brainstorm a better card name. All right, Kurt Goldsberg, you have an actual life to lead. Thank you for your time and your last thing.
- [89:21]
B
Last thing. March Madness pick you. Picking the Yukon Huskies and both sides.
- [89:24]
A
Probably no women's for sure. I think I have not. I need to look at a bracket. First of all. My wife is a Hofstra alumnus, so I'll pick Hofstra all the way. 13th seed. Can we just unite on this? Can we unite on this? Anybody but Duke. Just not. Just not Duke. Like, enough. Enough. Every game I watch on league pass, like, oh, look how many Duke players are in the game. Well, you know what? I liked when the Duke had an NBA team last year and they choked in the Final Four. I enjoyed that.
- [89:54]
B
Oh, wow. Houston again will be good. Florida's going to be really good. Arizona is my pick. And then on the women, my beloved Texas Longhorns. I know you guys are the favorites. The Yukon Huskies. Sarah Strong is probably the best player to play college women's basketball in quite a long time. I know what I'm saying there. But I like our Longhorns from Texas to upset them and win it all. So anyway, happy March Madness to everybody.
- [90:16]
A
A, B, D, anybody but Duke. Kurt Goldsberry. Thank you, sir. Check out his columns on the ringer.com and it's always wonderful to chop it up with you. Thanks, bud.
- [90:28]
B
See you, bud.
- [90:30]
A
All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe show today on Thursday. I'll be back next Tuesday as usual. And I will be back on Bill's pod Sunday night. I believe we're going to go right after Timberwolves, Celtics. Is it bad that I'm rooting for a Celtics loss to see Sad Bill on that podcast? I'd like to see that. Thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. Thanks as usual to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. And I want to give a special thank you to everyone who made the live show in Brooklyn possible. There's just tons of people that plan all aspects of this on production. Juliet Lippman, you know Juliet, Billy Gill, who's here. Mike Wargon, who's here. Jonathan Frias, who's here. They're always here. Rock stars. Bell Roman, Frances Bernal, Mike Sicoli, Stephan Anderson, who cheered me up after the show on a variety of levels. Allison Turner and Ally o', Donoghue. They get all the famous people to come, like Sam Morrell, who killed it as a standup comedian. Then they reach out to other people to see who can come. And then Elizabeth Fierman, the queen of events, just makes it so easy that I can just walk in and everything is all set up and the venue's great and all that. And Charlie Finan and Tessa Herrick. Tessa was a huge help on scene. Just an awesome crew of people. Thank you to everyone who made all that possible. We will see you next week on the Zach Lowe Show. 21 are over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, The Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdg.org and Maryland Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call call 1-877-8-Hopeny or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Monster Energy Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Summer Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.