← The Zach Lowe Show
The Zach Lowe Show
Celtics Top Thunder and Wemby’s Brilliance With Brian Scalabrine. Plus, Moussa Diabaté on the Upstart Hornets.
01:38:12
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. One minute the crowd's cheering, the next the scoreboard flips. Sports are full of surprises and life isn't much different. That's where State Farm comes in with their easy to use digital tools and over 19,000 local agents who can help you call the right play. Because when you know someone's ready to assist, you have the confidence to take on the unpredictable. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Price and eligibility vary by state. Coming up after this on the Zach Lowe show, we are coming off an absolutely bonkers night in the NBA. Houston and Minnesota play one of the wildest back and forth games you will ever see. What does it say about both of the teams, particularly Houston managing to blow a 13 point lead in overtime? The Celtics beat the Thunder in what very much felt like a statement game for both the Boston Celtics and Jason Tatum. Brian Scalabrine was at the game, calling the game. He's joining us to talk about that. And everything going on in the NBA, including all four leading MVP candidates. Absolutely showed out last night. Again, just a crazy night in the NBA. There's a lot going on to talk about. We'll talk about the top of the east. The bottom five to 10 in the east is now a complete mess. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about Giannis. What the hell is going on? What are they arguing about? What was the statement that the union released this week? Adam Silmer laid the hammer down on tanking. Let's see what happens with that and then we'll talk a little bit about some mid tier Western Conference teams. The Nuggets gave up a million points last night, but one because Jamal Murray. All NBA. Jamal Murray. That's right. At 53 points. Just a ton of stuff going on in the NBA and scout will help us sort through all of it and then put the antlers up. Moussa Diabate is here for a quick visit on all things Charlotte Hornets, including the brawl and whether he wants to see the Pistons again in the playoffs. Happy opening day. Let's beeping. Go Mets and we'll talk to you soon on the Zach Low Show. The Zach Low show is brought to you by FanDuel. Things are really heating up on the court and FanDuel is the best place to bet on all the epic matchups during the NBA season. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action. After tip off. And don't forget, with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 over in President of Select States 18 or over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinc. Welcome to the Zach Low Show. There's a ton going on in the NBA and it's centered on Boston last night. No one better to join us than Brian Scalabrini, the hardest working man in NBA media. He's on NBC Sports, he's calling Celtics games. He's got the starting lineup with Frank Isola five days a week on Sirius xm. Thanks for taking some time out of your mad schedule. Brian Scalabrini I tell you Zach, if
- [03:10]
B
Frank gets a hold of that intro, he knows there are some nights with my travel just get stacked up and I don't work five days a week. He's definitely going to call me out that you said five days a week. So can I call it 4.25 days a week? Is that okay?
- [03:24]
A
That's absolutely fine. That's still a lot of days of the week. That's a majority of the days of the week.
- [03:29]
B
That's good. It's like nowadays it's a lot. So I'm, I'm happy to be on Madam. Thanks for texting. You're right. Like I know it's like to have in the middle of college basketball but the NBA right now all time high as far as like storylines, drama, who's winning, who's not mvp. There's a lot of great stuff going on.
- [03:44]
A
There's a lot of bad stuff going on which we'll talk about. But there's a lot. The last night was an absolutely wild night. We had Celtics okc, the rare double digit Oklahoma City Thunder lost despite Oklahoma City being fully healthy. And we'll get back to that game in a second. We had all four leading MVP candidates absolutely show out in different ways. And then Jaylen Brown, one of my favorite Jalen Brown games of the season, sort of stamping himself is like hey can I at least get the fifth spot in here and like really make it a claim for the last first team all NBA spot if Kate Cunningham and boy does everyone hate the 65 game rule if he can't come back. We had a bonkers law. Houston come from behind then fall from a head loss in Minnesota. Neither of those teams are are you can't figure either of them out. Jamal Murray at 53 points, I think he's cinched up for me an all NBA spot and like might sniff second team if. If some of these guys fall away because of the 65 game rule. Just a lot going on. But I want to start in Boston. Is that felt like you were there. You called the game somehow it was not one of the national TV games. I didn't understand that. But you and it that felt to me. I'm interested to hear what you, you know, what you heard from the guys after the game and around the game. But from the, from the outside that felt like a big statement from the Celtics and the second quarter felt like a big statement from Jason Tatum. I thought that was the best he had looked on both ends of the floor. He had a blowby drive against Chet. He had a three in the pick and roll. He had a block at the rim on Lou Dort that sent the crowd into a frenzy that felt like a. Yeah, we're real. This is real. Like he's going to trend. He's going to keep trending upward and we can beat anybody, including the consensus title favorite. But what did you. What was your takeaway?
- [05:28]
B
Yeah, so let's dive. Celtics first, right. We can get in Oklahoma City in a second. Unbelievable that Jaylen Brown can outplay sga. Just a couple of weeks ago we didn't have Tatum and White and Brown had a great game, made some clutch shots, but it came up SGA with the big three and then you remember the offensive rebound at the end. So unbelievable duel. But in this game, Jaylen Brown was the better player. Something interesting like and I like the way that Joe does this. Jaylen Brown does not guard SGA throughout the game. In the fourth quarter, he guards him, does a great job, which is Jaylen Brown can guard sga, but SGA cannot guard Jaylen Brown. So we're talking about MVP and there's a lot to unpack there. But the fact that Jaylen Brown has been telling all of us that I want to be one of the best players in the world and you guys will see. And he got his opportunity this year and he's showing out. And he outplayed out dueled an Oklahoma City lineup that was healthy and whole for the first time all season and the fact that he outplayed SGA in the fourth quarter was a little mind boggling. So Jaylen Brown looks amazing. And here's the thing that stands out. Like SGA can make defenses look foolish. Jalen Brown, you can Play perfect defense and he can still score on you, which is dangerous because in the playoffs you don't really make people look foolish. What you do do is have like amazing defenses a la Steph Curry, and he still can go for 40. Well, Jalen Brown is operating on that level right now, which there's really nothing you can do to stop him. You kind of have to do the Kobe Bryant, just please, I hope he misses type of defense well.
- [07:05]
A
And he's just. His physicality has just gone up a notch and his control of his handle and his decision making when he starts bullying people toward the rim. I know he had five turnovers last night. I think he also had eight assists. It's just so much cleaner. He makes the every play simple. And you saw like both he and Tatum last night. You know, for me, the most encouraging Tatum play in that second quarter, he. He crossed up jet. That was great. The block on Dort was incredible. When they ran a white Tatum pick and roll to get Joe switched onto Tatum and they fed him the ball at the Dirk spot the nail. And he was just like, I'm going to be old Jason Tatum, Isaiah Joe, you can't guard me. I'm going to bully you all the way to the rim. And I think he dropped it off to Kada maybe for, for a dunk or a layup. And I was like that. That looked a lot like Jason Tatum to me. And it's been, you know, the shooting percentages aren't there. He's taken a ton of threes, which I, you could feel him being like, I need to get this shot back to, to an acceptable level for me. Let me force it a little bit if I have to. But that second quarter he looked great and like, I have no idea. We're going to talk about the top of the East a little bit. You know, when he came back and looked as good as he. As he did right away. And I'm still shocked at how good he looks now. Sure, there was a rush, I think, to anoint Boston as the favorites in the East. I think they are the most complete and coherent team in the east. The team that's most certain of their identity on both ends of the floor. So maybe that makes them the favorites. I don't know. I would put them in the Knicks sort of head to head. And we could talk about Cleveland and Detroit too, later, but I think he looks tremendous. And this core four that they have of white, Pritchard, Tatum, Brown, you throw Kate out there. That lineup is great. Hauser is Playing well. They get good minutes off the bench. Like, I just can't believe how good the Celtics are.
- [08:51]
B
Well, I think the issue, and I, and I'm not gassing Tatum up, saying I don't, I think he's just 75%, 70% of what he was last year. So Jaylen Brown has obviously ascended into a elite, elite player. And I still, I still feel like Tatum has a ways to go. The Chet Holmgen drive was like a sign of what I would want to see more of, you know, like I always look at. So before I unpack the three point shooting, the pull up jumpers, the ISO on Isaiah Joe, it's always like, do you hold your space in the NBA when you get downhill? Are you head on the rim or are you head on the outside of the backboard trying to finish? So I feel like the next iteration of him becoming his version of the great self that he was is finishing at the rim, getting to the rim, getting contact, using his euro step. He has all kinds of different finishes that he uses. He's 6 foot 9, 6 10, super long. So once he starts going to the basket, I believe that the confidence will explode into him. Making more plays, making more shots, making more threes. So I still have my eye on, are you owning your space on the drive? And if you just look right now at all the elite players, the elite players hold their line when they go to the basketball. Tatum is much better than when he started, but he's not where he was. So I still look at like tons of improvement for Jason Tatum to be able to, you know, have that strength, get used to hitting bodies while you go and finish around the rim.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah, and he, he had one drive early in the game where he had a clear path to the rim. And I think Hartness, he didn't have a clear path to rim, but he had momentum. And Hartenstein, I think was the last line of defense. And he kind of like went up and I thought, oh, he's going to go through Hartenstein, he's going to try it. And then he could. He, he was like, yeah, I don't know. And he kind of made this lefty, like awkward sort of like waiter carrying a trade dish to somebody and then kicked it. So I was like, that was like, oh, I think prime Tatum tries to finish that over Hardenstein. But then it got better as the game went on. And then at the end, Jalen Brown kind of took over. And Tatum in that game and in the Phoenix win a couple last week at some point has been Pretty happy to be like, hey, if. If you got the bully ball going and. And we've got smaller guys on the, like A.J. mitchell, great, good defender, couldn't guard Jaylen Brown, whoever is on the floor, like, you go and we'll run some motion stuff for me and I'll get involved here and there. But, like, you. You go and do it. And I. I think the mix, you know, Bill is very worried about your turn, my turn. I think some of that is inevitable when you get two star players like this. I think they've had a pretty good mix of both them controlling the offense and the Celtics and Joe Missoula running actions to get particularly Tatum the ball on the move with a little bit of an advantage. So it's not so, like, predictable. I.
- [11:37]
B
It.
- [11:38]
A
This is like, so far ahead of where I thought they would be for sure.
- [11:41]
C
What are they.
- [11:42]
A
What are we nine games into, Tatum coming back? I think.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah. I think one more thing to add to that is, you know, like, Holiday wasn't a demanding player as far as, like, wanting shots, but he did want the ball, like, to stay engaged. Porzingis was like. Porzingis wanted to get the ball on a mismatch or end on the block. So if you just start, like, comparing last year to this year, there's some possessions that were, like, kind of hanging around for those guys to now take advantage of it. Right. So I kind of feel like, like the balance of where White, Richard and the rest of the supporting cast are compared to the two stars, the ascending stars. Right. There's plenty of ball to go around. Like, how about if this same thing was happening last year with all the players that we had and all the demands that we had last year, I kind of feel like, man, where's Tatum going to find his way? But I think everyone on this team kind of understands.
- [12:35]
C
All right.
- [12:35]
B
Right now, Brown's the one's going to work. If he gets tired or whatever it is, Tatum is right there. Or they could have a my turn, your. Your turn, my turn type of style, but it doesn't feel like the ball is. Is. It's not enough basketball to go around as of right now, but we'll see. It's the playoffs go round and remember, and the minutes are going to go up. Brown is going to play. I don't know where Tatum's going to be, but we know Brown's going to play 42, 43 minutes in the playoffs. Everybody's going to have plenty of opportunities to make plays.
- [13:04]
A
A couple other rotation wrinkles that I wanted to get your take on. In a couple of recent games, Missoula has sat Brown and Tatum at the same time and kind of let White and Pritchard and some bench guys roll with it. Last night he went to full. We're going to have one of them on the floor at all times. And I've been watching him and thinking I wonder if sitting them both at the same time is obviously a way to get other guys touches and keep the flow going. But also like, do we want to overburden Tatum right away with being the guy when Jalen is on the bench? But last night they leaned all the way back into it. Do you like. What do you think is. What do you think is going on there?
- [13:41]
B
So twofold, right? Yeah, you're on the right track. Those guys are going to have moments in the playoffs where of those guys will be on the floor at all times. So just like wrap your mind around what you saw last night was probably the way it's going to be. But also remember chemistry between those two. Keep them on the floor as much as you can. They're not going to play that many games together. So in the playoffs they're going to be on the floor together, what, 30, 33 minutes a night?
- [14:08]
A
33 for Boston, if that's what it ends up being.
- [14:10]
B
Yeah, whatever, whatever. Like the threshold that Tatum could cross. Right. But you know, Jaylen Brown's going to be on the floor so you want to get those guys together. I think there's. I don't think you'll ever see them apart. So like Joe in a big game like that will dabble on. I think last night we probably saw our rotation minutes. The only thing that would be changed, like Hauser didn't play well yesterday. If Hauser's playing well, he's playing more great call by going with Baylor Shireman knocking down.
- [14:34]
A
Oh my God.
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B
He was ridiculous in the fourth quarter if you know his personality. He had perfect temperament to play against Oklahoma City.
- [14:41]
A
His mullet is getting a little out of control. It's getting a little.
- [14:44]
B
Come on. It's awesome.
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A
It's.
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B
He's.
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A
He. It was like vaguely a mullet and now it's just. We're going full on.
- [14:51]
B
Yeah.
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A
At this point. So that was a. That's a decision he's made apparently.
- [14:54]
B
And it's. And it, you know, like I always say about the NBA and you know, you can't be a poser. You got to be who you are. And Baylor Scheireman is like quadrupled down on who he is. By the way, he plays like the gunslinger mentality. I'm just going to shoot every shot. I get that they give it to me. I'm going to, I'm going to guard the best player and I got a mullet to prove it. Right. So it kind of works with him and. But I'm excited about his growth and like you know, that gives. If we're going to give shouts out like the coaching staff, the front office, like think of all the wings that they have drafted to support Brown, Tatum, White, Pritchard, all these guys are contributing all throughout the entire year. It's been really impressive.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah, Walsh can't even get minutes now and he's been ready when called upon the whole season. The other thing I thought was interesting last night, I don't think there were any foul issues but I may be misremembering it. I thought it was like the earliest and most sustained and aggressive that Missoula has gone. No big men on the floor and obviously, and obviously Vuch is out. Right. And I don't really even know what to expect from Vuch. It might be just completely matchup dependent with him because Garza has been really good. Is that a look that you think they are planning to lean into a little bit more or was it just like last night? Yeah, we think this is good against Oklahoma City.
- [16:11]
B
You can't. I love Garza and you know how people say with all due respect, you're actually going to like destroy the guy. Like he really struggles in the pick and roll against like a guy like Shai, like who doesn't struggle in a pick and roll against Shai. Garza does bring a certain element to the game that has been super valuable. But there are some times where you're just playing all world players against all world action and it's going to be really tough for him to guard and I would think like a lot of guys kind of fall under that category. You really want to go drop coverage on a guy like him. So I think what that did to them is they felt good about their rebounding with Baylor and Tatum who are both plus rebounders and they didn't have to worry about getting like, you know, shay with a 16 foot pull up jumper because you're in drop coverage. So it kind of makes sense why they would go down that road.
- [16:57]
A
That's a good point.
- [16:58]
B
I just don't know like who would be the guys in the league. Maybe Cade Cunningham, maybe Jalen Brunson. But you know there's, there's in that particular game. Remember, Oklahoma City sprints back 29th in offensive rebound. So if you're not going to get crashed on the glass, then why not go small and play with better space
- [17:18]
A
and switchability on okc? Obviously, they lose, spurs win. Spurs are now two games behind. The projection systems have cracked the door open for the spurs at the number one seed. It's still like 70, 75% chance, according to all the nerd systems, that Oklahoma City holds on to the number one seed. That may actually impact the MVP race, which we're going to get to. But I didn't love. I mean, look, OKC is like, unimpeachable. They are 11 guys deep, and they didn't even play Aaron Wiggins, who's Now like, the 12th guy, is the 13th guy. You know, I thought Jalen Williams looked good in his first game back last night. I just was like, where are you, man? Like, when she's on the bench, this is. I know you got AJ now and Hardenstein's doing dribble handoffs and McCain is being McCain. But 17 points combined out of Chet and Jalen Williams is kind of. That's like the recipe for how the Thunder are beatable. What did you think of them up close?
- [18:15]
B
Yeah, like, I'm going to kill Mark Dagnal right now. Like, he is the best coach in the NBA. He is like a superhero of a coach. But, Mark, like, I'm going to let you in on a secret. You can't play 11 guys in big games, bro. You just got to make a decision who you're going to go with. Like, pick your guys and stick with them. Like, you got, like, Alex Caruso is impactful. Luke and Dort's impactful. Like, I just. Just pick nine and go with that. And I felt like every time a guy, like, got a rhythm, he would sub out. Did you see the minutes that they play? Like, everyone's playing, like, 20 minutes, 17 minutes, 12 minutes. Like, what are they doing out there? So it's not the recipe for success to play 11 in a big game. And I know they're going to cut. Listen, Oklahoma City has first world problems with the depth that they have, but I just don't think you're ever going to be able to compete. It's a. It's a. The greatest part about NBA players, Zach, is their learning curve is so steep. You do something to me on one possession. I got you for the second possession, right? And it's just like all this learning curve and chess match going on. Well, guess what happened when you negate that by subbing a ton, Players don't get a rhythm to figure out. Like, if I'm going against Tatum and I'm going against Brown, like, I'm not going to give him one look. I have to like, mix that up. And as a player, like, like, like Caruso, you can't have him just play like three minutes on those guys. He needs like, like a little bit of a Runway. Lugan's Dort needs a little bit of a Runway. And I'm not, Listen, I'm not sitting here telling you I'm smarter than him, but I am smarter than him. In this situation. You can't play 11 and expect your guys to all play well. That's just not going to happen.
- [19:57]
A
I hadn't looked at the minutes yet. It's crazy.
- [19:59]
B
It's ridiculous.
- [20:00]
A
Jay played 37 minutes and everyone else, all what, 10 other guys that played or whatever it was, played between 13 and 26 minutes. Chet was at 26, JDubs at 24, McCain's at 13, and everyone is somewhere in between. I don't know that I've ever seen a box either, have I?
- [20:17]
B
Not a big game like that. Not like a quote, unquote, potential finals preview. Why would you do that? So he just like, that was. But by the way, Zach, first game where they quote, unquote, have their full rotation of players and like, it's all like, listen, I like Jared McCain and good player, all that stuff, but like, he could play on another team, but that team is so deep. Like, I'm going with the eight guys that all can guard and impact winning. And they had that game early on. Like, how about the, like the body blows they were throwing early and then they got like a little cute with the subs. So I'm, I listen. He is a brilliant man. Presti's brilliant. I'm not even sitting here comparing anybody in the world to those guys. But he kind of got a little too cute with having my full rotation of players.
- [21:05]
A
You know who Jared McCain could play good minutes for? Philadelphia could use Jared McCain. Although Embiid and Paul George came back last night and both of them looked fantastic. We'll get there. Mvp. I know you want to talk about this.
- [21:17]
B
Yeah, just.
- [21:18]
A
This is becoming 2017 again or 1990 again, or just pick your, like four to five person, really four person MVP race. It's just the fact that one of these guys is going to finish fourth is unthinkable. Luka has another 40 piece last night on 15 of 30 shooting. The Lakers are now plus four with Luka on the floor, minus two with him on the bench. And their offense without. They don't really have an offensive identity really without Luka at this point. And by the way, that Houston loss, if Houston is sixth and the Lakers are third, that's I think the best case scenario for the lakers.
- [21:53]
B
No question.
- [21:54]
A
SGA. SGA and a loss. All he does is go 33 and eight on 10 of 12 from the floor. And he was plus one when he was on the floor and they lost by 10. So that tells you about what happened when he was on the bench. Joker. 23, 21 and 19. Sure. Like, okay. And WEMBY in 20 something minutes throws up 19, 15, three assists, three steals, seven blocks. So basically five by five. Watch if it was a real game and the spurs had to play everybody. The spurs are plus 17 per 100 possessions with WEMBY on the floor and pretty much dead even with him on the bench. Who. Who is the right choice here? Scout?
- [22:35]
C
Yeah, it's.
- [22:35]
B
It's. To me, it's Wimby. Like, I've never seen a player. Like I, I have a feel like I wish that everyone that has a boat can watch Wemby play live. I've been in the league since 01. I've never seen a more impactful player on every possession. The fact that he's always behind the defense, they can throw the ball up if you come offensively. And he could dunk it. He's great in transition. He's starting to shoot the three better. I know his, like, his raw stats aren't great, but like, if you think last year SGA won the on court, off court number. He was the biggest plus the year before. I think it was Jokic. Right? This year it's Wemby. Wemby is running away with the field. Like even, like when SGA is off the. Off the court, I think they're plus 5.6, 5.7. There's still a really good team without SGA out there. But. But Wemby is running away with that. Wemby's lost like two games in two months. Like, he's the most impactful player in the NBA by far and it's not even close. But his raw numbers are not as gaudy as what you just mentioned, you know, so to me, like, I've just never ever seen such an impactful guy. And think about the end of the game last night. SGA is having a hard time guarding Jaylen Brown. Do you ever not want Wemby out there. Go ask these coaches privately, how do they deal with Wemby? They look at you with bewilderment, like, there's no answer for this guy. And he's like, to me, I think I'm just a year ahead. I'm always a year ahead with this stuff. Steph Curry I knew was going to break the NBA. I was watching him, I was like, I can't believe this guy's a human being. I'm thinking Wemby's doing the same thing this year. Like the way that Sean Sweeney is using him in that low dunker spot, like, they keep guarding the corner. It's really hard to move him around. It's like, it's a big problem across the NBA and he is the. You know, when Curry broke the NBA, everyone had to adjust and everyone's scrambling. Wimby is the new, like, what are we going to do with this guy? And it's happening. It didn't happen at the beginning of the year, but it's happened in the last three months. And like, I think coaches are like, I don't know if he could play like 35, 36 minutes a night and not get exhausted. Like sometimes he does. They're going to be tough to beat in a four in a seven game series.
- [24:56]
A
I think I said once they beat Oklahoma City on Christmas. That was the moment where I said, they can win the title now this year. I'm sure I'm going to pick them. But they are a championship team, caliber team right now.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah. Let me ask you, like, do you take into, like, if you're. You have a vote. I know you do.
- [25:12]
A
I don't. I don't have a vote anymore.
- [25:14]
B
That's. That sucks. Me either. Over over here. Just ranting on our soapbox on the, on the street. 4 and 1 against Oklahoma City in big games, you know, on Christmas Day on the NBA Champ cup games. Right? Like, they're like Wimy, like has something like, not only. I don't know if he has something against Chad, that's what the Internet says. But he also seems like, man, I've outplayed Shea in these games and look at their record of late. And this is a young team with some serious unproven guys and he's carried this team. It's not like SGA is carrying the Oklahoma City Thunder, who just won a championship, which they've had a ton of injuries to give him credit. But like, like Wemby has like completely changed the entire culture of San Antonio Spurs. I don't look at them the same way from January 1st as I did at the beginning of the season. Like, to me, that's what a true MVP does.
- [26:06]
A
No, he's, he's terrifying. And your point about how the spurs defense uses him differently? Everyone can see like the U turns that guys make when they get even near the lane and he's around. Everyone could see that. Like that was the first ever. First you see the blocks, right, and the shot challenges at the rim. Then you can see the U turns and the. Oh, no. I. It just, it goes even beyond that. It's, it's completely all encompassing. Like your game plan has to be different when you're playing the Spurs. There just are certain actions that depending on where he is, like, we just can't even, like we can't even run that. Like that's, that's out of the playbook, like lighted on fire. And there was, I can't remember who they were playing recently, where it was a team that was like, we're gonna bring Wemby into the action.
- [27:00]
B
We're gonna have. That was Boston when Jalen Brown was out there early.
- [27:03]
A
It was a different game than that. But. Yeah, but it's like, because you can see the spurs can make a choice like do we want him roaming around as a help defender or do we want him on your main screen setter in the pick and roll and the other team can kind of try to make that choice for you by no matter where he is, we're going to try and get him into the action. And that's a bad answer because he covers so much space that no one else needs to help. You're not going to get open driving kick threes, running a pick and roll at Wemby. I don't think there's ever been any. There's been nothing that in my lifetime like, like this all encompassing before tip off defensive impact, other great defensive players, wing defenders in particular, you could kind of like treat them like a cornerback in the NFL where they're just going to avoid that guy, park him over in the corner. There's no avoiding Wemby. There's no playing him out of a defensive possession. It's an every possession thing now. I would probably still lean sga just in hit the on off stuff you cited is right there. Plus 5 per 100 when he's on the bench. That is not a demerit against him to me. And it's not that you're making it a demerit, you're just, we're all splitting hairs because they are plus 15 with Shea on the floor. And so that number is so fat that that's really the one I care about.
- [28:20]
B
17 is more than 10.
- [28:22]
A
17 is more than 15 year. Whatever it is. Yeah, I get it.
- [28:25]
B
I'm saying Wimby's a plus 17 when he's on versus off. That's like. That's astronomical. That is SGA last year. That is Jokic when he won it.
- [28:33]
A
I don't think that is, like, dispositive of the race. But if. If reasonable people can disagree, it should also be mentioned whether you care or not. Maybe it doesn't matter to you that shay has played 350 more minutes than Wemby despite sitting a million fourth quarters because they didn't need him like that. That has to factor into it a little bit. But look, I said. I said on Tuesday that I think by next season, the consensus is going to be Wemby is the best player in the league. And there were very divergent reactions to that reaction. Number one was, it's too soon. He hasn't played in the playoffs yet. You're disrespecting these other three guys who are putting up crazy, historically great numbers, and all of them are. And then the other reaction was, well, duh. Is he the best player now already? I don't know what the right reaction is, but I. I think by next year, he's number one.
- [29:21]
B
Jack. Next year, you're trying to win a championship. You got the first pick. You taking Jokic? Are you taking Wimby?
- [29:27]
A
I'm probably taking Wemby.
- [29:28]
B
That's what I am, too. And you know, me and you.
- [29:30]
A
I don't know how much think about that. Yeah, we were like, team Jokic eight years ago, and now all he does. He. All he does is put up like 30, 10, and 10 every single game on 65% shooting.
- [29:43]
B
Correct. And they're now like. And I'm. I'm as big of a Jokic fan as anybody in the world. Like, I'm up there with his brothers, right? But, like. But, like, I would take Wimby because, like, Dak, when you're seeing him live, they're driving on the opposite wing, and they're just looking at Wimy. They're not looking at the rim. Everybody is searching, where is this guy at? I've just never seen this before. It is. You talk about the U turns. Like, if you don't do that. He's getting 10 blocks. He is breaking the NBA. He's breaking the NBA. If they keep winning out. And let's say Oklahoma City trips up a little bit and the record's the same. Come on, man. You have to admit, dude, that's ridiculously impressive to take that team and put them there. And when he's off the floor, they're a lottery team.
- [30:32]
A
If they pass the Thunder or tie the Thunder and Breaker, I'll bet you like 30% of the voting pool will flip their votes. It's going to be a significant number of voters will flip their votes.
- [30:45]
B
The only thing is voters don't like. They like to spread the wealth, you know, like, you know, very socialist when it comes to this. He's winning defensive player of the year, so maybe they won't double down this year, but I have a feeling we're going to look back and say, ah, we probably should have done it. But moving forward, it's really. Every award is his award to lose.
- [31:06]
A
I think Defensive Player of the Year should probably be unanimous. And I'll be curious to see if there's a Chet vote or an Amen Thompson vote or whoever else you put in there.
- [31:15]
B
Both.
- [31:16]
A
I think it would be unanimous. Okay, let's briefly hit the top of the east because I know you're. You're hankering to talk about the Knicks.
- [31:24]
B
Just their defense, by the way.
- [31:26]
A
Yeah, so Cleveland lost to Miami last night. I'm not sure how hungry Cleveland really is to get out of fourth. And so we might be looking at a New York Boston clash in the second round. You know, New York, I want you to talk about their defense because I think no one is sleeping on the Knicks because they're the Knicks and it's New York and everything about them is loud as hell. And everything Cat does is loud as hell. And even their owner has been loud as hell this year. This is like. But the way the Knicks are parsed, particularly here in New York area where everyone is fretting all the time about male bridges. Oh, my God, what's going on? Should they pull him out of the starting 5? And cat is just a roller coaster. And the coaching, I'm like, dude, we fire Tibbs. Is this guy any better? And blah, blah, blah. They're third in offense and fifth in defense.
- [32:18]
B
I know.
- [32:19]
A
Like, I like that. Just okay, like that. You've checked every box. I can't believe they're fifth in defense. What are you seeing that has driven this?
- [32:29]
B
It's like it's OG Anunoby and Mikhail Bridges, like, everyone gets caught up. And Mikel Bridges, like kind of his whiny Attitude. And OG used to be, I mean, historically, I think he was like that. I think he's been better this year. Like, those guys are pouters and they pout throughout the regular season and whatever, but when I watch them play in meaningful games and they sit down and they guard, like, OG is as good as any defender out there when he wants to guard because he's quick, he's strong, he's got good hands and he does a really good job of not fouling. Like that's important when you guard people. So we can like funnel guys to spots on the floor. You don't really blow by him and he doesn't bow that much. So I think that, you know, I think people would. If you say Nick defense, they would immediately think Cat and Brunson can't guard anybody. But I look at them a lot differently. I look at them as a team that in a playoff series when you cut rotations down, you play those guys a lot. They've been relatively healthy this year. I, I kind of think like that, that that defense could be really good. Now that the question is going to be like, is Karl Anthony Towns going to be like, he gets destroyed. The guy like knocks down threes and rebounds the ball at a high clip and he gets destroyed. But I feel like he could be like a little bit volatile.
- [33:46]
A
Do you mean destroyed by the media or destroyed by a post office?
- [33:49]
B
When I say I think it's more like not like beat writers per se, but it's more like fans on social media. Right.
- [33:58]
A
He's the punching bag for whatever reason. And then when you watch them play. And I get it, like everything he does is loud, he's awkward, he falls on pace to set the record for most offensive fouls committed in a season. It's not attractive at all times.
- [34:11]
B
Agree. Big feet and everything. Yeah.
- [34:14]
A
But I think his defense has really been much better in the last two months. And if he just gets big and executes what they want him to do so that all five players are on the same page and they know where he's going to be and he's pretty good late switching on some of these pick and rolls. He just does that stuff. The limitations are always going to be there. The evidence says, like with Hart, Anunoby and Bridges sort of just running around protecting everybody else. There's a pretty solid defensive team. And offensively he's having a really quietly very good two, like last two or three months. The three is starting to fall and a lot of why they're a great offensive team is because he's a shooting 5 of of the likes of which we've pretty much never seen. And all the cutting and stuff that they do and is opened up by the fact that the bigs are pulled away from the rim or they're on Josh Harden. Everyone's confused about where to be. I think he's had a pretty, I think he's had a pretty solid season. He's, he's back in the third team. All NBA conversation for me.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah, I mean for a guy that gets destroyed like that, he is having a good season. And then you have to add in who I think it's a kind of like an anomaly is Mitchell Robinson.
- [35:20]
A
Like he looks great.
- [35:21]
B
You don't have any answers for him. Offensive rebounding, getting behind the defense, you know, it's just, I think what people don't like about the Knicks is they don't have like their attitudes are a little bit like, you know, they like, I don't know, they pout a little bit, they complain a little bit. It's like not what you think of a championship level team. And I don't know how they're going to handle offense when, when it rolls around, but I just know I've seen a lot of big games. Like I watched the spurs game and I'm like, man, you know what, I don't care what anybody says. This is a championship level defense and they can build off of that. And when the playoffs come around, it really does come down to defending and rebounding. And they do those two things really well.
- [36:00]
A
Cats, an elite rebounder, they can have the double big thing with Kat and Robinson when they need it. I, I would. There was talk before Bridges had a good game the other day about taking him out of the starting five. I would not do that. I think that's way too upsetting of the apple cart. And I think you just need him in his skill set. Even if he averages 12 a game, like he's going to do other stuff that helps you win. And to me the tell with the Knicks is ball movement. And when they're moving the ball, they are really, really hard to guard. And so like when, when teams blitz, there's no great answer for Brunson. Right. Unless you can switch everything and not expose yourself elsewhere. And like Boston is pretty well equipped to do that actually. But when you drop, he just rains fire over you from the mid range and when you blitz, that's actually to me when the Knicks look their best because he'll get, when he gets off of it. Early. Even if he doesn't hit the roll man, if he hits like Hart on the wing and Hart is just so unselfish, like I'll hit the roll man. And the ball starts popping, you're like, damn, this is like for a team that has a rep as predictable and oh, there's too much Brunson and it's too much ISO. When they get it moving, that's when they ascend to a level like, yeah, this team could beat the Celtics in a seven game series. They could beat the Cavs in a seven game series. And I don't know who's going to win the east, but I think I would rank them in the Celtics as 1 and 1A in the East. With apologies to Detroit, who's obviously dealing with a major injury and you know, their offense has some questions I am curious to hear. Cleveland, to me is the hardest team of these four to get a handle on. In part because their four best players have basically barely played together because Jared Allen's been injured for so long. They're 15th in defense now, which is not great. The Harden Mitchell combination has been as dynamic as advertised offensively. Strus is back. Merrill has made a nice little jump. Do you believe in this team? Like, I, I kind of don't know what to make of them.
- [37:53]
B
Yeah, exactly. I believe in a team until it gets really, really, really hard. Right then I don't. And it's like I, I want to believe in them. I thought at the beginning of the year they had the best talent. They've been equally disappointing. Them and Orlando had to spin my, you guys should both be much better with the talent that you have, the size. But you know, like Mobley didn't take the jump. Allen has been a lot better with Harden, but he didn't hurt and he doesn't play. Like that team could be a dangerous team. But I'm just like, like I think Donovan Mitchell is having one of the best seasons of his career and yet we don't believe in the Cleveland Cavaliers because of the toughness element to it. So, you know, last year it seems like a completely different team and I think they're a lot tougher this year. Like Tyson is like the great addition to that team, like the way he plays, Love Max Schruce being back and all that stuff. But it's just like how all of a sudden you're going to go two straight seasons and then now it's going to like you're going to always get that point where you have your back against the wall in the playoffs and we're all are expecting you guys to deliver based off of what is what I would say to them. Like we like based off of the roster that you put together we're done doing that so you have to kind of prove it to us which who knows man, they can make a run. They definitely have some of the most talent in the East.
- [39:16]
A
I think they have a lot of top end talent, a lot of depth and a lot of different ways they can play with Schroeder and Ellis and Kenny Atkinson has made I think a smart decision that Schroeder is like attached to Donovan Mitchell and Ellis is attached to James Harden because the Harden Schroeder fit is a little more awkward. They just have a lot of Merril made himself quite a good little all around player I like I think they can absolutely win the East. I if I had to do like a a pie like an East Finals representative pie I think it would be like 30 to 33% Boston, 30 to 33% Knicks, 20 to 22% Cavs and like 20 to 22% Pistons. Like I I I think that that's like how jumbled it is. But I I do think for me the Knicks and the Celtics have have ascended to their own mini mini tier.
- [40:01]
B
Yeah.
- [40:02]
A
All right, let's take a break.
- [40:03]
B
I will say in the east number one team to avoid like those top four do not want to play Charlotte. Say it right now.
- [40:11]
A
It's a great segue. We're going to take a break and we're going to get into the the the second half of the east playoff picture. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is putting you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your award. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control no matter how you play. FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game this NBA season. Head to FanDuel.com low to make your pick. Get in the game and play it your way. 21 or over in select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in. Required rewards are not withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800-gambler call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut this episode is brought to you by Ebay. On ebay, behind every car and part is a story waiting to be shared. I read about this guy. I brought a nearly scrapped 2020 Porsche Cayman. Okay. He rebuilt the whole thing, all with parts he found on ebay. I couldn't do that. Maybe you can. And now that Cayman is out tearing up the track from Toyota's to Aston Martin's, ebay has thousands of cars and the largest online selection of vehicle parts and accessories. EBay. Things people love. This NBA moment is presented by State Farm Scal. You mentioned the Hornets and the chaos of the second part of the Eastern Conference playoff picture. It's, it's just like madness right now. The hawks are suddenly fifth at 41 and 32. The Raptors are 40 and 32. They've dropped to six. They're six and nine in their last 15 games and just look like kind of a mess. The Sixers are now seventh at 40 and 33. Embiid came back last night. Paul George came back last night. And then the Hornets, the Heat and the Magic all have 34 losses. This is like a, a wild race for fifth and sixth and home court advantage in the play in and all of it, which you can pick any of these teams. Who, who's most interested? I mean, like Charlotte. I. We're all, I think, rooting for Charlotte because they're the most interesting and I think the most dangerous of all of these teams in the first round. Their schedule is absolutely brutal to finish the season, which is why the projection systems give them like a, like a 10% chance of getting into the top six. I would give them a better chance at that just because they've been so goddamn good. But even their last three games are Detroit, Boston, Knicks, and two of them are on the road. But I think like all four of those teams in the east should beat Charlotte and any of these teams in a playoff series. But Charlotte is, I think, the most, the best of them. And Philly, if they can ever stay healthy for more than a hot second, is obviously kind of scary. But who do you want to start with here?
- [43:03]
B
Well, I always go with. So when it comes to the bottom half of the East, I just go with the teams that I love to watch. Right. I'm not going to love to watch you if you're playing losing basketball. So the way I order those two is 1 and 2 or 1A, 1B is Charlotte, Atlanta. You know that the top two lineups since January 1st is Atlanta and then
- [43:26]
A
Charlotte, like Atlanta with CJ McCollum starting.
- [43:29]
B
Yeah.
- [43:30]
A
With.
- [43:30]
B
Okongwu and then, you know, when they kind of figured out that Musa Diabate is not a human being, he's from, like, he's a machine, like from the, from the future. The guy doesn't even breathe air, man.
- [43:41]
A
Coming up, coming up after you on the, on the Zach Low show, we got a visit with Musa Diabate. We talk about his. Yeah, we got, we, we recorded it already built, man. We know we recorded it already, but we talked about his like insane stamina and work ethic and also, and also his pension for fights, which is a good time anyway.
- [43:59]
B
I think like he's brought like a crazy element to that team and everyone's like playing winning basketball. I love what Charles Lee has done with that group. So Charlie to me is the most dangerous because it's the team I love to watch. And then Atlanta is right beneath them. And then the rest of those teams, like, I'm on it, like you got to prove it to me for me to like, like you guys. I'll watch your all possession recap, but I ain't sitting down wasting my time watching you guys on the play because I see so many times where I'm going to sit down and watch a game and you're going to play Atlanta. Here we go, Orlando. And you lose by 30. How do you lose by 30 in a big time game? You know, so I just like, I think Charlotte has all the makings with Brandon Miller. He's playing well beyond his years in Concan Nipples doing the same thing. And Lamelo ball, a losing player and the rep for, for his whole life and all of a sudden now a plus player.
- [44:45]
A
Oh, man, you can't, you can't bring that noise. You can't bring that noise about Lamelo being a losing player. On Zach Lowe show. We've been the most loyal supporters of Lamelo ball. Like just look at the numbers, man, they were good. When he, look, he does goofy, we all know he's going to do goofy shit. And he's dialed back his goofy quotient by like 70% this year, which is helpful and makes him more of a winning player. I just don't. I think the losing player thing is. Was unfair.
- [45:12]
B
I could, I'll take it. I'll deep dive that for you. So when he's down by 20, he's amazing. When the game is tight, he's amazing. But the NBA is, you need to operate, it's really important. Down six, down eight. To understand the value of those possessions. As the point guard and you're down six, you're down eight and you do three dumb things and next, you know, it's 20. That's not good. So now he doesn't do those things. Like when those, when those leads are like, he'll make a big play.
- [45:41]
C
He'll.
- [45:41]
B
He'll find somebody for a wide open shot. That's like, in the past, I did not love him in like, I call those moments much. Like, I watch games with eight minutes to go, down by six, and I'm like, these next three possessions will determine the outcome of this game. Most people watch the last two minutes of the game. No, it's like, these are important when you're a guard getting a good shot, getting a stop, not turning the ball over. And in the past he's done those things.
- [46:07]
A
So he has. But they were also like a legit.500 team when he's been healthy with not a lot of talent around him.
- [46:14]
B
Yeah, but like, part of being good is being healthy.
- [46:16]
A
Listen, that's.
- [46:17]
B
We don't need to argue what he was.
- [46:19]
A
Okay. It's fine.
- [46:21]
B
What he is right now is a big time winning player and his talent is so great in the fourth quarter. He is the most player to the player you should fear the most when he's out there. And now some of these tight games
- [46:34]
A
as you're talking, I do wonder if the turning point for him. I would love to talk to him and the coaching staff about this moment. It might have been two months ago now when this thing was starting to happen, but not quite really happening. They were playing Indiana at home, and they were up three with like a minute left and there was a jump ball and the Hornets won the jump ball and it went to Lamelo. Now you're up three with a minute left. All you want to do is just like, let's. You don't want to milk it, but you don't want to do anything crazy. And he dribbled up the court and threw a crazy alley oop to somebody and it was like not even open. And the Pacer stole the ball and came back to win the game. And even the, Even the announcers who are so, so. Eric Collins is so enthusiastic and Del Curry's great. They were. I. I'll never forget it. They were just silent for six seconds. And then Eric Collins said something like, whoa, Whoa, boy. Or something just like that. We can't believe he did that. And it's. He hasn't done anything quite like that since Philly. I thought Embiid looked as, as well as you could have expected.
- [47:35]
B
Chicago, they scored 157 points.
- [47:37]
A
1 foot 7 against Chicago. We all got to wait and see Miami. I thought of note last night. They. They went in Cleveland, they snapped a five game losing streak. They started Mitchell, Powell, Hero, Wiggins, Bam, which I had in pencil as their starting five before the season. That group has only played in nine games so far this season. They flirt. They flirted with this like Powell off the bench thing because are we going to st. We do. We want both Powell and Hero on the floor. Can we survive defensively? Powell wasn't psyched about it. They've now just said, you know what, let's roll with this and see what happens. Then they threw Bam. And where together on the floor in the fourth quarter. And it worked. I'm just, I'm interested. But their ceiling is just not that high. Like it's not as high. They don't reach heights like the Hornets reach. And the Hawks have really found something with the way they're playing now. I want to see it more against good teams. And they played the Celtics I think twice in their next three games against the Celtics and Orlando.
- [48:37]
B
Yeah, I don't know where you even begin. Like they, they had that little run there where so Paulo and Jamal, Coach Mosley call each other out. They win five games, then they lose to Atlanta by 30 and they lose six games. So to me that's just like it's inevitable that that's not going to work and they're going to have some. I don't know what they're going to do this offseason, but it looks like they're going to do something this offseason.
- [49:01]
A
I mean if they actually finish 10th and lose in the play in, I think pretty much all bets are off. Other than. I don't even. I don't. I mean like, I think they'd look at tons of different things. Coach, front office hours, Franz. I mean, yeah, like literally. Literally all of it.
- [49:20]
B
Yeah.
- [49:21]
A
To me, the story of their last six games is their defense is falling apart. Their transition defense has fallen apart. They're not communicating and without that they don't have much.
- [49:29]
B
And then.
- [49:29]
A
But I also. There. It's so weird. I was watching their game as Cleveland the other day. Suggs is out as usual. Wagner's out, Anthony Black is out. And I'm like, they just. I kind of almost admire that they're 38 and 34 because the talent on the floor, like when one or Bain or Bancaro is on the bench, the lineups they're playing are like these are Almost like borderline unviable playoffs. Like, not even borderline. Like, these guys wouldn't play in the playoffs, and they're still scrounging around over.500. But it does. It doesn't look great. My favorite moment from that game. Did you see any of that Orlando, Cleveland game the other night?
- [50:06]
B
Yeah.
- [50:07]
A
Did you see when the woman got her drink knocked out of her hand in the second row?
- [50:10]
C
No.
- [50:12]
A
Fantastic. So someone throws an errant pass. I don't remember who it was. Woman in the second row. So not courtside. The spilling did not delay the game. She's on her phone, not paying attention to the game. Ball just smashes right into her beer and it spills everywhere. And she was not excited about being on television. She was not excited about the whole thing. If you're on your phone, just like, look, if you're sitting in the second row of an NBA game, a real fan may have wanted those tickets. And you're like, I. You deserve the spillage. That's all I'm saying.
- [50:43]
B
Yeah, yeah. Wait for a dead ball. You know what I mean? But no, that's for sure.
- [50:46]
A
But I have a. By the way, I proposed a rule last week. I did a live show in Brooklyn, and this rule got very good feedback from the crowd in my panel. Panelists, would you like to hear this?
- [50:54]
B
Yes, of course. I love rule changes.
- [50:56]
A
This is not a real rule change. If you like, we're all interested in speeding up the game, right? Like, the games are too long. The end of games take forever. If you're courtside and you spill your drink, it's your fault. You knock it over. You knock over somebody else's drink while you're coming back from the Delta Club four minutes into the second half, and they have to delay the game to, like, wipe up all the spillage. I think you should have to come to center court and someone says to you, like, the PA Announcer is like, can you name four players who are participating in tonight's. Tonight's game? And if you can't, you're ejected from the game and someone from the upper deck gets your seat. I think four is a fair number because anyone can name two because there's always two stars.
- [51:42]
B
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Both teams.
- [51:44]
A
Four players or one four combined players? Four. Both teams. Because anyone can get to two. I don't want you to get to eight. Like, I don't expect you to be like, Jet Howard played six minutes in the first half. Just give me four. And if you can't, you're out of the Game. That's all.
- [51:58]
B
Oh, man. You don't have a lot of respect for Gucci Road man and Toronto.
- [52:03]
A
Do you even want to say? I, I just can't. The Raptors are just, this is what they are. They're an okay team. I don't. To me, the more interesting questions about the Raptors, like, the Magic, come in the offseason because I think regardless of where they finish fifth, sixth play in, I think would be a big disappointment given where they've been for the season. But if they, as long as they make the playoffs, I think they'd be satisfied, but also come away knowing, like, I don't think we're that much better than this. Like, I think this might be as good as this group can get. Yeah. All right, switch topics. You ready?
- [52:33]
B
Go.
- [52:34]
A
What do you think of this Giannis thing and the players union statement?
- [52:37]
B
Ah, that's weak.
- [52:38]
A
That's weak. Which was one of the most bizarre press releases I can ever remember, which I thought was about the 65 game rule, and, like, welcome to the Party players association. The 65 game rule, which you collectively bargain sucks. And then it was like, oh, by the way, we're mad about Giannis because we think he's healthy and the Bucks might be holding him out against his will, and we're somehow inserting oursel into this. And the implication from what I, I, I made some calls on it, from what I heard, was they actually want the league to do, like, a player participation policy investigation, which normally, that's like, when a team is holding out a player and everyone kind of agrees what's going on. This would be, like, a hostile player participation policy, like, medical investigation to see if he's healthy. Doc Rivers said last night, he's not healthy, he's not cleared to play. It's one of the more bizarre things I can remember. And how do you read it?
- [53:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, to me, like, Giannis is trying to navigate the divorce and not try to basically, like, let's, hey, everybody, it's not my fault, you know, like, that's really what it looks like. And I love Giannis. He sits down with me every year for, like, 20, 25 minutes when we go to their training camp tour, and he's always, like, gracious with his time, but, you know what's happening is he's a legendary player. Gonna have a statue out front of Pfizer Forum, and he wants to leave, and he doesn't want, like, his name to be drugged through the mud for whatever reason. Right. But it's like, if he has those feelings, it's gonna be tough. So he's kind of like, making it like, the Bucks don't want me to play. How am I supposed to play here? I do have a theory, and I don't know if this is true, that Giannis is like, tells the agent what to do, and then he's like, do whatever you want, but don't let me know about it. So it's almost like the agent is going and saying all of these rules, oh, what about this and what about that? This is the best way. Let me talk to Shams. And Shams will throw out a tweet and everything like that. Like, all this back channel stuff. And the Bucks are just, like, protecting their investment, which is, if they're going to trade Giannis, they don't want him to get hurt. They don't want him to pop an Achilles. They just went through an Achilles pot by Damian Lillard. They want to go into this offseason clean. Whether they do trade him or offer him $275 million, they want to go into it with, like, some certainty of, what do you want to do, Giannis? And I think the Bucks are trying to do that, and I feel like Giannis is trying to save face. When he eventually asked to be traded.
- [55:08]
A
Yeah, I. I said two days ago, or maybe it was last week, whenever the. When Eric Naim. Whenever Eric Naim at the Athletic first broke the story that Giannis and the Bucks were at odds about him playing or not. I was like, this just feels to me like a player trying to manufacture a narrative that the team is the bad guy. And, like, this is why I'm leaving. And now I feel that even. Even more strongly than I did then. I just think this has all gotten so dumb, like, really just ridiculous, because the Bucks probably should have traded Giannis 18 months ago. I understand why they didn't. He's only 31 years old, and he's a top five player in the NBA. I get it. Like, your team is sunk without him for an indefinite period of time. And he's not 35. He's 31. I get it. I got it. But it was clear that it was over and that it would take a lot to. To build a new contender around him. And they didn't pull the trigger. That's fine. Nobody needs to actually be the bad guy here. Like, we don't need. We don't need to go through all of this fucking mess like Giannis. You're going to be beloved. Everyone would understand if you Asked for a trade, like, none of this needs to happen. And then Wes Edens comes out, the governor for now of the Bucks, because their ownership situation is a continuous disaster of incongruity, comes out and tells Ramona Shelburne, well, he's either going to extend or we're going to trade him. And that felt to me like, very much like it's up to him. We're putting the onus on him. And now everyone's trying to make it look like it's not our fault. It's like, this is so dumb. I'm so tired of it. Wake me up when he gets traded to wherever he gets traded to, and I'll analyze how he fits in with that team or the teams that are interested in it. But this is just, like, it's just dumb. I don't.
- [56:45]
B
It's like, let's say they turn on your podcast and listen to us talk. They would be like, yeah, you're right. But somehow, if you're listening to, like, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to Milwaukee local radio and listening to Milwaukee local callers and what they think, like, yeah, I could see how people could be a little bit emotional, but this is the NBA way. Giannis, do you want to be a legendary buck all time and just play with the Bucks and you guys are going to lose and you're just going to play and you're going to be fine with it? No, I want to win championship. Okay. If you want to win championships, let us work together to make this thing happen. Everybody wins. We want some assets. Because for us to win a championship for you earlier, like, we're still paying the price on the Jrue Holiday trade. So, yeah, it makes sense in the NBA to kind of restock the kitchen cabinets when you have a legendary player guy. Like, some people don't do that. Like the Celtics, they did, and they got Brown and Tatum. Other people like the Lakers and Dallas and San Antonio just let their guys get old and they got nothing.
- [57:50]
C
It's a.
- [57:51]
B
It's a matter of how you want to deal with it. It seems like Giannis wants to leave to let the Bucks get something for him. It's simple. It's as simple as that.
- [57:59]
A
And you nailed it when you said protecting Giannis from injury. Like, this is. There's just no logic to him playing again. There are nine games out of the, like, it's over. It's done. It's been over for two weeks. They lose every game by 30 points. Like, they just Lost to the Blazers by a million points last night. It's over. It's been over for quite a while. They get the worst of their own pick and the Pelicans pick. So sure, they have some incentive to make their their own pick as best chance of being a high pick as possible, whatever it is. But this is completely about. This guy's had how many calf strains in the last 18 to 24 months. And this knee thing that happened now, there's no rational team in any sport that would play this player in the going into the final year of his contract in this circumstance. Like, there's just. It's cool that you want to play great. That doesn't make you a hero for me. It makes you like, just do check the standings, man. Like, give Thanassis your minutes and let's move on.
- [58:57]
B
Yeah, agree.
- [58:58]
A
The other big thing that happened related to this was Adam Silver's press conference yesterday announcing that the league will explore expansion officially in Seattle and Las Vegas. And I'm cool with all that. And then the strongest language I've ever heard about tanking, when he said, we're going to stop this, full stop. We're going to change this, full stop. There's a consensus about changing it. I didn't think he would come out that strong. And I've seen a million different proposals. I think the league has seen twice that many proposals. I don't know what is going to win out, but when Adam Silver comes up and says that it ain't going to be a little Band Aid, it's going to be something pretty dramatic. Have you seen a proposal that you enjoy?
- [59:45]
B
Not really. Not really. I don't think there's anything that I can look at all 30 owners and, and the league and the players and the players association and all the, what they call them, the benchmarks or the check marks that the stopgaps or whatever. You have to have to get to the point where everyone's going to be on board with it. So it'll be interesting to see what they come up with and what's probably going to happen. Like, remember when they said we're going to curb the last. The three picks all have the same chances or whatever it is.
- [60:16]
A
7. Seven years ago they did. They changed. They flattened the odds a little bit, flatten the odds.
- [60:20]
B
It didn't change anything. So whatever the end result is, teams will still find ways to tank. The reality is this draft is supposed to be ridiculous. I hear, like, I talked to Brad the other day and he's like, man, I'M excited about our 20 something pick and our 40th pick. Like there could be guys that can come in and play for us. So it's not just a top tier talent. The AJ Debons of the world. Right. There's like really good players throughout the draft and I think it's a little combination of the nil stuff that's keeping people in college. So. But guys are coming in and maybe being able to play right away and contribute at 22, 23 years old. So that's kind of where I feel like it's. No matter what happens, it's going to be very difficult to make it so teams don't tank. But if the people vote, remember there's picks that have been traded in the future that are rely have been traded based off of one particular system. Now you're just going to change the entire system. I don't know if it's going to be really hard to get everyone on board. There is a competition committee, there is a board of governors and there is a players association. They have to deal with all that.
- [61:31]
A
He sounded pretty goddamn confident that we're voting in the spring and it's going to be changed after that and by the 2027 draft the rules are going to be different. Can I float some ideas at you Go for it if I. I'm not sure what the leader in the clubhouse is right now in terms of what the league wants, what's actually passable at the bog but there is some momentum is too probably strong of a word but of going back to a system where the odds are completely flat for all the teams that are all the teams in the lottery except for the teams that get into the play in and lose. Those teams would get some lottery odds but not the same odds as everybody else. And the idea there would be obviously flattening the odds removes all the incentive to lose at the highest level. But we don't want a system where teams are tanking out of the play in to get in to the lottery. And so we give them a little love too. I think that's got some momentum and that brings up the same fears that you know, I think there'll be some small market teams who are a little bit hesitant about that because they feel like it it, it takes away their cleanest way to get a superstar. Their most tried and true way to get a superstar. But I, I, they've also done this before like the NBA had that was the system of like the Ewing lottery I think was, was flat odds and so they need if that's what it ends up being, everybody needs to be prepared for. Like when they change the odds that you mentioned seven, eight years ago, they flattened out the odds you mentioned it didn't change behavior. And you're correct. It actually made some behavior tanking behavior worse because teams started tanking to the middle. But one thing it did change is there started to be some pretty wild jumps up in the lottery and wild falls down in the lottery. And everyone immediately was like, oh my God, what have we done? This is a bad idea. So we need to change it back the other way. And it's like if you just gave this system 25 years in the aggregate, the worst teams would pick the highest and you'll. But you'll have more years where there's some jumping around and you just sort of like, did you not understand what that was going to be? And if they go back to a system like that, they have to be prepared for there's going to be some crazy stuff. And you have to like just stomach that for 10 or 15 or 20 years or else we're just going to be continually doing this thing where it's like, we don't like that. Let's tweak it again.
- [63:48]
B
Zach, let me. I don't know the answer to this. Please help me. When it was flat, is it every pick was pulled out like one or once you got like the top three, then everyone followed suit after. After that.
- [64:02]
A
That's a great question. I don't know. Off the top of my head, I think, I don't think every pick was pulled like that. And that's another thing that has been proposed. There's also.
- [64:11]
B
That's, that's been a problem because like some people just like, I don't care what I do. I want to. If right now, if you get jumped by four teams like Washington had the worst record and they picked fit two years ago.
- [64:22]
A
Detroit, it's happened, but it's happened to all three of those franchises.
- [64:25]
B
Yeah, so. So they're like, well, we're better off with fifth. We don't want eight. So they keep losing on purpose. If it literally is a Giant, everyone gets one ping pong ball and you pull them out, then I think it will, it will eliminate it. But there'll be some really good teams getting the number one pick.
- [64:43]
A
Another. Another. So another criticism of the flattened odds is it disincentivizes losing, but it doesn't incentivize winning. And so there are other proposals where and the Heat have been behind one of these that has gained some traction where after a certain date in the season you actually get credit for winning. And so that teams aren't just not trying to lose, they're actually trying to, to be competitive in games. I don't, I, I, I, I don't know what's going to win out. I would place the flattened odds or something like it a little bit ahead of that, but that's an interesting one too. Then there's been some like, wild proposals. I don't want to get too into them here, but like wild, wild proposals that are interesting.
- [65:24]
B
But yeah, I, I be, I listen. This year was the worst year. I hate going on.
- [65:30]
A
It's brutal.
- [65:31]
B
And you're watching NBA League pass and there's like two games that matter and everybody else is trying to lose and it's like, what are we doing? And these people are paying, like, everyone's like, about the money. Like the 65 game rule with Kade and that does suck. But there are a lot of fans that pay, like, they save money and they go to games to watch teams that want to lose games. Like, are we talking about integrity of the game? And like, we do have to think about the fans as well. And I know the fans like want to lose so they can get a top pick. But I think competitive basketball is the most beautiful thing. Like, I don't watch historically, I haven't watched all star games because I hate those type of exhibitions. Just like Chicago and Philly. Last night was an exhibition. Like, I want to see competitive basketball. That's the only thing I care about.
- [66:20]
A
You weren't digging into Wizards Jazz last night?
- [66:25]
B
What, are you trying to call me out?
- [66:27]
A
No, I wasn't digging into that. Juju Reese had like a million rebounds because the Jazz didn't play any big guys.
- [66:34]
B
Heard
- [66:37]
A
the, I didn't, by the way, fans. I was a little surprised that Adam Silver, I don't know if you saw his press conference, was in trying to sort of figure out why tanking had become more commonplace. He was talking about analytics and these GMs that come from different backgrounds and owners from private equity. Then he was like, and the fans too. The fans clamor for this. I'm like, don't do, don't blame the fans.
- [66:57]
B
They do clamor for it.
- [66:59]
A
That, but that's fine. But if your team is so weak that you cave to that, like, what do you make team building decisions based on that? It's like, come on.
- [67:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Great point.
- [67:08]
A
Wait, there was one other thing I
- [67:09]
B
Wanted to say about 65 game rule probably.
- [67:11]
A
No, I don't care about that. I've already done that. Oh, the other tell that Adam Silver had yesterday, that this is going to be a real substantive change is when he talked about how we can change certain parts of the CBA down the road that account for some of the effects of the tanking changes. So like what he's saying, really there is, there are going to be teams who, when the lottery odds are flattened or it's more random or whatever we end up doing, who say, well, wait a second, this hurts our ability to get star players because we're small market teams. This is our only guaranteed way to get a star is guaranteed. It's not. I mean, God knows the Kings have sucked for a million years. But what Adam Silver is saying is that may be true. Let's posit that it's true. He probably disagrees, but let's posit that it's true. How about we open up other ways for you to get star players? And I've talked about how like maybe restricted free agency goes away so that or is limited in some way so that teams have quicker access to young free agents. Maybe you increase rookie scale salaries so that if a really good team wins the lottery, they're immediately in a financial crunch. I had even one team propose, like if you get a top three pick, you have to win a certain amount of games in your first three or four seasons to actually get him to be a restricted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent. That was interesting. So that, that was a tell. There's one other thing I want to get your thoughts on before we go. Where are you on Denver right now? Because it's been a very strange injury riddled season for them. They've won a couple games in a row, but they've been like high scoring games. That don't exactly encourage you about their defense, which is ranked 20 the league. But Watson just came back. Gordon just came back. Brown is now solidly back. They have their team now. Is this a juggernaut waiting to emerge or is this just the year from hell and it's not going to happen?
- [69:06]
B
Their defense is atrocious. And I will give Mike Malone a ton of credit. Like if you don't like his attitude, his yelling at the players and calling them out in the media and Adelman doesn't do it, but they responded to that, you know, so I don't know, like if I, when I watch them, they don't have like a disposition defensively where I believe that they can get stops when they need to. I'm okay with teams being bad at times, but I can watch like the last eight minutes of a game and I can watch you like raise your level up. And I get it. Pete Watson being out does, does help that. But when I look at them like junking up their defense 1, 2, 2. And moving Jokic around and like putting Yokich in compromise situations, like, I don't believe in their defense, therefore I don't believe in them. I, I, and listen, me and you, the Jokic, I love that team I think I picked. Denver is the one team that could beat Oklahoma City at the beginning of the year, but I was not expecting them to have a top. I thought they would have a top 10 defense with the additions of Cam Johnson and everyone being there, but they just not and not only when they're out there. They don't care to get stops. They have the best offense in the history of the game right now, but if you're not stopping anybody, you're not winning tight games. You're not doing what it takes to win. And I'm not. I don't think they play hard enough to overcome their defensive liabilities.
- [70:26]
A
Yeah, they have the number one offense in the league. I was right there with you. I called them a juggernaut hiding in plain sight earlier in the season. I thought they would be the biggest threat to Oklahoma City and I'm not writing them off. No, no, I'm not. I'm just not.
- [70:39]
B
I mean, I can't get stops when they want to.
- [70:41]
A
I would put them now behind Oklahoma City and San Antonio in the hierarchy to win the west, but I still think they could win Minnesota. You had a Minnesota ahead of Minnesota. Yeah.
- [70:50]
B
Wow. What am I missing Minnesota?
- [70:52]
A
I think Minnesota's been I there. They've been my stealth title to contender the entire year, but I would still the pedigree of Jokic and Murray and I just want to see how they look and what lineups they can play now that everybody is back. And you know, Watson is probably their best individual defender. Aaron Gordon is right there with him. Brown is fine. He's just a little overtaxed. Like he's not that good at the point of attack. He's not going to stop like an Anthony Edwards. He's, he's okay getting around screens, et cetera. They don't play those three guys together hardly ever because I think they've concluded it's not viable offensively. I wonder if they might dabble in Watson, Gordon And Christian Brown altogether. Cam Johnson is starting to find a rhythm again, so it doesn't feel like it's going to be their year. And whatever chance I thought they had of winning the west before the season would shrink by now. But I just can't ever dismiss a team with Jokic and health around him. I can't. I can't dismiss it.
- [71:49]
B
I can't. I. That's where I was until I keep watching them in the fourth quarter.
- [71:54]
A
It's been bad.
- [71:56]
B
I mean, you can't. I'm not saying you don't try. I'm saying when you try, you still can't get stops.
- [72:03]
A
Well, there, there's been a problem.
- [72:04]
B
Even the Lakers get stops when they try.
- [72:07]
A
Even they had a recent game against the Blazers that they won. It was too close for comfort. But, like, there were just very basic communication breakdowns where one guy would switch and another guy wouldn't, or two guys would rotate to the same guy and look at each other. Like, wait, I thought. And like, I know you guys have had a lot of injuries, but this is an experienced team. Like, we shouldn't be seeing that 70 games into the season. If they can't clean that kind of stuff up, they aren't going to get through the West. And yeah, the Lakers are there too. Man, the Lakers are legit, kind of scary.
- [72:39]
B
So. So last year when they got Luka, JJ Redick goes into all his junk defenses and they win right to the top of the NBA. And defense number one, until they face Minnesota in the playoffs. And it doesn't matter. Any junk defense you throw at Anthony Edwards, he has an answer for it. So I think Lakers are seriously matchup based. Like, they could beat a lot of teams. There are some teams I don't, I don't think they can beat. So I don't know if all this junk defense that they're doing right now, which is working like their top eight in defense since the All Star break, but they need all year. We know that LeBron Luca and Austin Reaves, they're not great man to man, but they're also pretty smart players. So I think JJ's done a good job of putting him in the right situation, but sometimes in the NBA playoffs, it just comes down to talent. And if you don't have defensive talent, how do you win? Even though deandre Ayden has been exceptional since the All Star break on the defensive end.
- [73:36]
A
I've talked a lot about the Lakers in the last week or so, so I'll keep it simple here. If they Get Houston in the first round. I'm picking them to win that series. Easy.
- [73:44]
B
That's an easy win.
- [73:46]
A
I there. They have a chance against almost everybody else in the west, but I would still pick in a best of seven series, I would pick Minnesota over the Lakers. I picked Denver over the Lakers. San Antonio, despite the experience factor, and Oklahoma City. I would pick all those teams to beat the Lakers in a playoff series. But if it would have been like team X and five a month or two ago, it's now seven or six or something like that. But would you pick the Lakers over any of those four teams?
- [74:16]
B
For right now, I pick them over Denver and Houston, but not San Antonio.
- [74:20]
A
Pick the Lakers over Denver.
- [74:21]
B
Yes, I will. I'm so down. I am so down on Denver. You know, you don't understand. I just. When you. It's like I'm like a fan. Like when you want to root for a team and then sometimes in the media you root to be right. I'm not right. I'm wrong. They were supposed to be better and they cannot get stops when they really want to get a stop. It's a problem. The Lakers, they can. No, they're not. This is a bad year for Denver. I don't know what happened. I think. And I don't want to, like, throw Adelman under the bus, but I think Mike Malone's, like, ruggedness was really good for their team. You know, like, I felt like, like that toughness and him calling guys out would like, they would raise the level and I'd see Denver, they look big, they look imposing, they look physical. Like, that has all disappeared to me.
- [75:08]
A
Wow. Okay. I mean, it's. You're not wrong about. The defensive issues are real. I just. I guess I just have enough. So much respect for the pedigree and I want to see their team with their best defensive players.
- [75:18]
B
All right.
- [75:18]
A
Brian Scalabrini, you can see him on Celtics games 4.25 days a week on Sirius XM from 7 to 10am with Frankie Ice. And how often are you on NBC?
- [75:29]
B
Pretty much every Monday. I'm either calling a game or in the studio. It's Monday on Peacock on Peacock.
- [75:35]
A
That's. I gotta. Peacock. Peacock. Are you enjoying the Peacock stuff?
- [75:38]
B
Oh, yeah. I love being there. It's like. Because it's like league wide, so you really gotta, like. You got. You got 12 seconds to hit a topic that's like, great. Where we just spend 12 minutes on a topic.
- [75:51]
A
Brian Scalabrine, you're the man. Let's bring in Musa Diabate. To conclude today's episode. But scal thanks. I'll see you soon.
- [75:58]
B
You got it. Thanks.
- [75:59]
D
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- [77:29]
A
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- [78:17]
B
Zach.
- [78:20]
A
All right, special guest time. About a month ago on Amazon prime with Steve Nash and Blake Griffin and Dwayne Wade, I did a segment my Marcus Soul all star shout out. Marcus Soul, my favorite players to watch. That's it. Just favorite dudes to watch in the league. And they were all delighted by one of my picks, Moussa Diabate. And I said on TV that night, nobody if you think whatever player on your team you think is the hardest paying player on your team, Moussa Diabate plays harder than that guy. And Moussa Diabate is here. What's up, man? How you doing?
- [78:50]
C
Good. And you, man? How's everything?
- [78:52]
B
We're good.
- [78:52]
A
We're good in the flesh. So I got to start with just the basics. The moose nickname. Do you like it or do you not like it? Because that's like just an easy pun on your name, right?
- [79:06]
C
No, I love it. I mean, it's, it's very funny because it really started at Michigan while I was out there. My roommate Will Cheddar, shout out to him and Ian Burns, they kind of came out. They came up with it pretty much when they were playing or whatever. And after the game, he's just like, yo, the moose is loose. The moose. The moose is loose. And that's really how I started. And so since then, I've always, you know, had it in mind. I've used it a couple times last year, but he really definitely took up this year. But, yeah, I've always loved it.
- [79:35]
A
Is it a kick to see the moose antlers all around now? I mean, Brandon Miller was wearing them during, during warm ups in a game. The fans are wearing them. Is it, is it crazy to you that this is now a fad?
- [79:45]
C
No. Yeah. This is insane. I mean, it's funny because like, literally last year I came in and I even know what was gonna happen, you know, and now for me to be in this situation where, you know, everybody's like, you know, kind of like supporting me and stuff, I mean, it's a blessing. It's amazing.
- [80:04]
A
I saw Andy Roddick and Brooklyn Decker at one of your games wearing the moose antlers. Did you get to Talk to them after the game about this?
- [80:11]
C
No, I didn't. But I did see it on Twitter, though. Yeah, that was crazy.
- [80:15]
A
Have you seen any other celebrity superfans either being, you know, someone text something to you or you see it in the crowd wearing the moose antlers?
- [80:23]
C
I saw a couple French celebrities do it texting me, but, yeah, nothing really for real.
- [80:31]
A
Okay, so you guys are maybe the happiest story of the entire season. Got off to a slow start, showed some potential, and then, bam, exploded. And you've been one of the best teams in the NBA now for three, four months, coinciding almost exactly when you got moved into the starting five. But the question I have is, was it a. Maybe it's a practice. Maybe it's a game. Maybe it's a film session. But for you, Moussa Diabate, when did you start to realize, like, oh, we may have something real and pretty special here? Was there a moment like that, man?
- [81:06]
C
I mean, really, it started from the summer. You know, at the end of the day, that's always what I'm gonna give props to this summer. We've worked very hard, and, you know, we had an understanding that, you know, we wanted to do something special or at least change the culture, and that's the mindset that we had, and coach brought it every single day. And so for us, you know, coming into training camps or even during the summer, like, before training camp, you know, it was like, all those talks that we had with the coach understanding the goals and the reasons of what we're doing things. And so now, I mean, I wouldn't say that it's. It's a surprise, but it's definitely, you know, funny to see how everything just took off, you know, so fast, and, you know, how, like, you know, the opinions are changing now. So, you know.
- [81:47]
A
Yeah, it's been a long time since Charlotte was this fired up about. About the NBA. Have you guys. You guys are now tied with Orlando at seventh and eighth, I think, in the Eastern Conference. Let me make sure I'm doing. Yeah, no. At eighth and ninth. I'm sorry. And game behind Philly at seventh. Two games behind Atlanta at sixth. You have a bunch of tiebreakers that go your way. Have you started to talk about, like, how high can we actually get? Like, should we shoot for the fifth seed? Should we shoot for the sixth seed? Do you have those conversations?
- [82:15]
C
Right? I mean, obviously, it's always something that, like, you want to talk about, but at the end of the day, man, like, we got to stay grounded. It's like one of them things where, you know, you just got to take it day by day. The playoffs are coming. Obviously, we have big goals, and you want to get excited because you are winning teams all losing. It's like, oh, yeah, like, we really have a chance to, you know, do something and steal a spot that, like, people didn't think that we were going to get to. But at the same time, like coach said, every single time, you know, stay grounded, you just take it day by day and give everything you have.
- [82:45]
A
Is there any part of you and be honest here that kind of wants to see the Pistons in the first round after what happened in that infamous game?
- [82:55]
C
You were funny. I mean, really, to me, it don't matter. At the end of the day, I'm just trying to play basketball. You know, it's always fun to play against the team, but I wouldn't say there's like, any specific bridges or anything like that. For me, it's just like, you know, playing basketball at the end of the day.
- [83:09]
A
So that was a wild scene. As you know. I watched it again, just to refamiliarize myself with it. And before the play where you foul Jalen Duran, they're taking the ball out of bounds, and there's some. There's some talking going on. What's he saying to you that's starting to get you a little angry? What are you saying to him? Like, was there anything said like that?
- [83:29]
C
I mean, I feel like it's just very much like trash talk. Like, you know, regular trash talk, like talking basketball. I don't think it was nothing, like, personal in that sense. At least. I don't remember. I can't recall exactly what was being said. But, yeah, it wasn't definitely. It wasn't nothing too crazy. It was just like, you know, talking basketball at the end of the day,
- [83:47]
A
I heard from a couple of your coaches who were like, man, when. When that happened, we were almost kind of joking with Musa. Like, man, we didn't know you had that. We didn't know you had that in you. But what do you remember from, like, the aftermath of that? Any. Any conversations like that or just, like, the process of coming down from something like that must be a strange feeling, too, in a way.
- [84:07]
C
I mean. I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm. I'm like. I'm familiar with it because it's like, you know, like, these things that happen at the end of the day, you know, I'm not. I'm not trying to be out here and trying to say, oh, Yeah, I fight, but it's like, you know, I'm not. I'm not familiar with the feeling, so it's not like it was crazy to me. It wasn't a surprise, but, like, maybe just somebody because, like, they don't know me. It's like, oh, yeah, like, dang. I know. Musa had that, but. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it wasn't. Yeah. You know, I definitely thought that, like, it was gonna have, like, some bad feedbacks to it because, you know, I didn't want anybody to feel like I was just an aggressive guy or something. But, you know, it definitely had the opposite times. Which was. Which was.
- [84:46]
A
Have you talked. Have you talked to Jalen during. Since. At all?
- [84:49]
C
No. No.
- [84:51]
A
You mentioned that. It's not unfamiliar with you. For you. You were in the middle of the Juwan Howard, Wisconsin coach thing that happened between Wisconsin and Michigan, where you were when you were in college there. What do you remember about that was like a wild one, because you don't see coaches going at it like that and you're in the middle of it and there's stuff happening. What do you remember about that?
- [85:11]
C
Oh, I don't exactly remember exactly what happened. All I knew is hands were thrown, and then all I saw was pretty much one of my teammates got snuck on by one of the Wisconsin players, and so I was just trying, you know, to defend them. So. Yeah, but, you know, things that happen, like I said, you know, sometimes emotions gets high and, you know. Yeah, things like that sadly happens.
- [85:39]
A
Have you always been a super hard playing player? Has that always just been a hallmark of your game? Like, I just want to outwork people for sure.
- [85:47]
C
Hell, yeah. I don't. I think for me, it's. Yeah, it's always been like that. As you're saying that, like, for me to have fun when I'm playing the game, I have to be playing hard. If not. I don't. I don't know. I don't have the same enjoyment, for sure.
- [86:00]
A
Someone with the Clipper. The Clippers drafted you in the second round and then they let you go, which is a mistake. But do you have. Have you. When you played the Clippers, which has probably only happened a couple of times here in the west, do you feel like this is now a revenge game for me? Like, I want to take. I want to show these guys what they messed up on, man.
- [86:16]
C
It's funny because I always get asked that question, but funny enough, I don't see it that way because, you know, at the End of this life, you know, things gonna happen at the end of the day, it is a business. You do feel like, damn, like why they ain't keep me. But at the same time, I felt like it was for the better for me at the end of the day. So I am kind of grateful for that decision, for that situation that happened like that. Even though maybe I'm not agreeing with exactly all like the way it happened, but you know, it worked for the better. So would I be mad specifically? No. I still have great ties with them. Great people took care of me and, you know, taught me a lot. So.
- [86:53]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, just speaking of how hard you play, somebody with the Clippers, I was doing a little research told me, man, you know what sold me on Moussa is someone we might want to draft. I had never seen anyone play so hard in a pre draft workout, and I sure as hell I've never seen anyone dive into the scorers table during a pre draft workout. So do you remember doing this in the Clippers pre draft workout? Like, I don't know if you were saving a ball, what was going on, but like crashing into the scores table.
- [87:18]
C
Right? I think I do remember what happened. Yeah. Because at that point, you gotta think so I was already at my, like, I think I have like some type of record or gotta be close to it. I think I had like, that was like my 22nd or 23rd workout.
- [87:32]
A
Wow.
- [87:33]
C
Yeah. Like, I remember like going into like my 17, 18 workout and just like people just like, just like clapping for me. Like, yeah, like, just want to thank you for being here. Whatever. I was just doing every team at that point. So yeah, it was, it was crazy. But I mean, you know, like I said, that's just how I play. So, you know, did you see some
- [87:53]
A
of the same prospects over and over again? Like, did you play some of the same guys in three on three or one on one in any of these workouts? Like, was there, was there a rivalry that happened almost. And who was it?
- [88:02]
C
I mean, it wasn't even a rivalry. It was more so like, damn. Like, are you here too? Oh, shoot. Like, where you going after that? It was more so like, like, wow. Like, dude, you like, we playing again? Like, I want to say it was like a rivalry more so, but it was like, obviously we're gonna, we're gonna do what we got to do when we get on the court, right? But yeah, no, it was more so fun because it was just like, oh, wow. Like I just played you. Like, yeah, that's Great.
- [88:23]
A
But anyone who's really made it in the NBA like you.
- [88:28]
C
Well, there's some of them that like in a G or kind of in and out, but like. Yeah, nah,
- [88:37]
A
well, maybe you, maybe you broke their spirit a little bit in some of the, one of the hallmarks of your effort and your tenacity is offensive rebounding. And one of the Hornets coaches told me, you know, we, we, we joke like Lamelo, like, you know how quarterbacks in football pay their offensive linemen or give them like watches at the end of the season. Like Lamelo with all the kick out threes he's getting off Moussa offensive rebounds should be. Have you discussed, have you discussed, have you discussed this with him? What would you like, do you need a new watch? Do what would you. Do you need a car?
- [89:09]
B
What would.
- [89:10]
A
What do you need?
- [89:11]
C
Nah, I mean like, it's like you need to place me in some type of way. I have to figure it out to think of something. No, I'm just playing overall though, I feel like, you know, it kind of works like in both ways, you know, because like it helps me out when he makes the shot and you know, even passing me the ball. He's my point guardian, so, you know, I ain't trying to be doing too much. I don't want him to start tripping.
- [89:31]
A
Have you ever been in a car driven by Lamelo ball?
- [89:37]
C
Hell no, never will. Nah, nah. It's cool though. I mean, I don't know, obviously, you know, you had that one incident that happened, but. Yeah, nah, I haven't.
- [89:49]
A
Speaking of the Clippers, I had forgotten this. Someone sent me a clip. You got popcorned during your time with the Clippers. They filled your car with popcorn. I'm always curious about this. You see this all the time. So it's funny. You open the doors, the popcorn falls out, everyone videos it. What happens next? Do you clean? Like how do you clean a car full of popcorn? Do you get a vacuum? Like, what do you actually do?
- [90:14]
C
To be honest, I don't even know. Cause all I did is pretty much that night I got some popcorn out, drove, and literally the next day somebody came in and cleaned my car. The Clippers had somebody to clean my car, so it was love. So I was tripping and it was a rental car, so I was just like, fine.
- [90:31]
A
It's not even good. That good of a prank if they're going to clean it up for you. It's like there's no punishment for you.
- [90:37]
C
Hey, it was better for me.
- [90:39]
A
I did hear though, that it wasn't just typical rookie hazing that was the cause of the popcorn. You can verify this or not? It was punishment for you for not being good at fulfilling your rookie duties with donuts and chick fil a and latte. You were not diligent enough with this. And so you. I, I just. I think people talk to me, Musa. That's all. That's all. That's what I heard. Is it bad information? You can refute this now?
- [91:04]
C
Nah, I mean, I would agree. I wasn't the best of the rookies. It was more. Okay, look, so to me, it was just more so, like, you know, like, I'm gonna help you out, but, you know, it's like, I'm not a kid.
- [91:18]
A
You're not a kid, right? You're not. Like, I'm not. I'm not a third grader.
- [91:22]
C
That's what I'm saying. Like. Yeah, no, it's just. Yeah, I'm gonna just keep it that way. But not the great vids, though. Great vids, for sure.
- [91:31]
A
This I did not know. You are just. You. You have been or were fasting for Ramadan, which is something that I remember when I was a kid. Hakeem Olajuwon would do that and there would be. People would ask him about it and there would just be this, like, awe that someone could play NBA basketball games for a month and practice and all of that, but play hard and play tons of minutes while fasting from sun up to sundown. How do you, how do you. Does it feel. Does your body feel different? Does it feel harder to you? And, and how do you kind of prepare your body to. To play a game during Ramadan?
- [92:10]
C
Right? Oh, man, It's. It's, it's a whole different mindset just in the standpoint of, of the sleep, especially for me, because I'm, I'm a terrible sleeper. So, like, for me, it's like, yeah, like, definitely, like, sleeping wise is very hard. Also, like, obviously you can't eat or drink. I mean, it's like a whole mental preparation for real. Just most understand that, like, you know, from that point on, you know, you can't eat or drink. So, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna have to, like, really lock in on what you. When you get time to eat, what you eat, like your nutrition, but also what you're drinking. Like, just make sure that everything is on point. I wouldn't say that it's hard, more so in a sense that it's. It's kind of weird. It's one of the things where, like, you don't really feel it in the beginning, I'll say. Or like, you kind of have this, like, adaptation point where, like, you just, you know, trying to get used to it and then it's kind of like, okay, I'm cool. But then, like, the closer you get to the end, the more you start feeling it. Like your body stuffing, like, you feel more tired. You. You know, it's just. Yeah, it's just what. What it was for me at least, and especially for a guy like me, that plays off energy. It's like, man, like, yeah, it gets tough at least the last. I want to say the last three games, four games while fasting, I was like, man, like, I gotta take it out. I just gotta find a way. So how do you.
- [93:28]
A
Yeah, how do you change your, like, eating and drinking habits post game? During Ramadan? Do you eat more after the game? Is there. Is there a kind of food that you. That you target more? Like, what do you actually do? Do you, like, chug Gatorade? I'm just trying to think, like, how would I like knowing I can't eat or drink again till after the next game or after the next sundown? Like, what do you. What do you do more of, less of, right?
- [93:51]
C
So for me, definitely, like, trying to eat things that's gonna stick more. So like steaks, you know, just things that's gonna, like, stay my stomach and it's just not gonna. It's just gonna stay in there for like a whole day. It's gonna be the main thing for the sleep. So pretty much what I try to do is, you know, trying to like, pretty much pray during the night. Let's say if I gotta wake up at like 5:40 to eat. So let's say I gotta end in my prayers. I'd like, oh, my prayers, let's say, is at 6, so I gotta wake up at 5 and eat. So I'll try to go to sleep at maybe like two, sleep for like three hours, wake up trying to eat as much as I can for like 40 minutes, you know, pray. And then the problem is not. Is not getting back to sleep. So now I gotta find a way to trying to go back to sleep. And then, you know, just going by my day from that point on. But, you know, I talked to my staff, to the. To the team staff, and, you know, they. They did a great job. Amazing job, you know, just making sure that, like, I was okay with everything that I had. Everything.
- [94:51]
A
Rumor has it you are agitating to start Shooting threes after making a couple end of shot clock grenade threes. Is this accurate?
- [95:00]
C
Grenade 3, the one in Memphis wasn't a grenade shot clock, was it? No, I don't think it was. Was it?
- [95:05]
A
I don't know. I didn't go back and watch them, but I just heard you had hit a couple, at least one at the end of the shot clock. And now it's like, hey, look, coach, like, let me loose, let me lose is funny, but.
- [95:17]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's. It's still in the talks, it's still in the process, but, you know, don't be surprised if it's not coming up though. For sure.
- [95:24]
A
I like it. Last one and I'll let you go. I was thinking about this. I was like, let me look at his international stats. And you didn't play Eurobasket and you were not on the Olympic roster for France. 2028, Los Angeles shaping up to be an all time amazing basketball Olympics. Is it in your plans to play for France in 2028? If you obviously make the team and all that, but is that something you're aiming towards?
- [95:53]
C
For sure. I mean, you know, like I said, like, every single time, like, me playing for the national team is always a blessing. It's always a great opportunity, you know, better, but also to represent your country. So to me, it definitely is always fun. And yeah, it's definitely something that I would aim for, you know, being able to play with, like, some of the best players in the world against the best teams in the world. I mean, and, you know, we. I feel like we have a chance to, you know, do something, you know, so, yeah, for sure, it'll be amazing. But like I said now, you know, we. We have a lot of young guys are in there now, you know, a lot of bigs, too. So, you know, it's definitely gonna be fun and interesting to see.
- [96:27]
A
All right, this is the last one. Sorry. This is. I always end with players like this. You got, what, 10 games left in the season before the playoffs? You can talk about seating and matchups and all that, but is there some aspect of your game as a team, as an individual, whatever, that you want to use these last 10 games? Like, let's really lock this down or let's work on this. It could be a play, it could be a defensive technique, switching, whatever it is, something that, like, I want to nail this down before either the play in or the playoffs so that we're really ready to go.
- [96:56]
C
All right. You know, I'll say for us, really just stay consistent. I think that, like, sometimes we, we get so comfortable in we're a lead or sometimes we like the way we plan that, like, we kind of lose ourselves. We can have just like little lapses and you know, like, understanding that in games that don't matter even more. So like now or like during the playoffs, you know, we're not gonna have those chances. We're not gonna have those opportunities to, you know, just like relax. So definitely, you know, stay mentally strong and consistent. But overall, I mean, you know, like I said, it's a basketball game. You know, things don't happen. So, you know, control what you can control.
- [97:32]
A
Moussa Diabate, it's just been a joy to watch you play the team and you individually. And look, if you make the playoffs, maybe I'll pop down to Charlotte, buy myself a moose antlers thing and hit a game. But I appreciate your time. I know you're busy. We're in the stretch of the NBA. Thanks for popping on and I'll see you around the block.
- [97:50]
C
Appreciate it. Thank you.
- [97:54]
A
All right. Thanks to Brian Scalabrine, incomparable Brian Scalabrine. Thanks to Moussa Diabate. Thanks to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. That's it for today's Zach low show. We will be back on Tuesday with a new episode and I will be on Bill's podcast on Sunday to recap whatever wild stuff happens in the NBA. Thanks to everyone for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. 21 are over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Monster energy.
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