← The Zach Lowe Show
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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. One minute the crowd's cheering, the next the scoreboard flips. Sports are full of surprises and life isn't much different. That's where State Farm comes in with their easy to use digital tools and over 19,000 local agents who can help you call the right play. Because when you know someone's ready to assist, you have the confidence to take on the unpredictable. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Price and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:28]
Chris Ryan
Foreign.
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Zach Lowe
Up on the Zach Glow show it's
- [00:36]
Chris Ryan
me in my hotel room.
- [00:37]
Zach Lowe
I promise you I am not in a bathroom. This is just what the background of my hotel work area looks like. I'm not trapped in a bathroom. I am trapped in a hotel room with bad WI fi though, which stinks. However, I'm about to go over to the Fillmore Auditorium in Denver to do a loaded live show about the Western Conference and a bunch of other stuff. And before that I wanted to come on make my final awards picks very dicey awards season. A lot that I labored over for a long time flipped and flopped and flipped and flopped. Made my final picks going to talk quickly about the Bucks and Doc Rivers. Mark Stein and Jake Fisher just reported James Borrego will be a candidate for New Orleans head coaching position but was not just given the job after doing a pretty solid job in the interim.
- [01:18]
Chris Ryan
Doug Christie kangs just kangsing around.
- [01:21]
Zach Lowe
So we'll do some awards, we'll do some coaching talk and then the live show. It's not just Denver stuff. We're going to talk about entertainment value rankings of all the first round series. We're going to pick play in games. We're going to talk MVP and legacies and things that are at stake in the playoffs. And then we'll talk some Denver stuff too. Tim Hardway Jr. Is coming on at the end. That's all coming up on a funky edition of the Zach Lowe Show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams players and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. And don't forget, with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 20 or over in select states 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinc. All right, it's time. No more dilly dallying, no more delaying. Regular season is over. All the games are in the books. It's time to give out some awards. One of the hardest award seasons, top to bottom I've ever had. Since I've been doing this 15, 16, however many years it has been. We'll start with the Big Kahuna Most valuable player of the NBA. And for the second straight year I think it should be Shay Gilges Alexander
- [02:52]
Chris Ryan
by a little bit over Nicole Yoko.
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Zach Lowe
I have second, Wemby third, Jalen Brown fourth, Donovan Mitchell fifth. If Luka Doncic wins his appeal, and I hope that he does, but I don't know that he will. In fact, I would probably bet against him winning it just because I think the NBA is really going to try to draw a line in the sample.
- [03:10]
Chris Ryan
We'll see.
- [03:11]
Zach Lowe
I would have him fourth, knock Jalen, fifth knock Donovan off the ballot. I probably would have found a spot for Anthony Edwards had he been eligible. He's a few games short. This was Jokic's award as of Christmas. A couple of masterpiece games, including that crazy Minnesota game on Christmas. He had vaulted past Shea. He was having a historically unbelievable season even by his standards. One of the greatest seasons in the history of the NBA. And then he got hurt and he missed some time and Denver survived without him. I don't hold that against him at all. In fact, all of these teams survived without their best players to varying degrees. Very impressive. Cade Cunningham would have been probably, probably, actually would have made my ballot over Anthony Edwards actually. And Jalen Brown if he had qualified. I should have mentioned him. Pistons survive without him. I don't hold that against anybody. But he wasn't this quite the same guy for like the first 15 to 20 games after he came back, defense had slipped a little bit. Turnovers like ratcheted up and just bizarre like non Jokic kind of turnovers. And I just think Shea like a freaking metronome just every game. 30 points, efficient shooting, very good defense for his position. He's not just like along for the ride, being tugged by all the elite defensive players that Oklahoma City has. He's part of the machine, one of the best rim protecting guards in the league, has great hands. You can't really hunt him down. He's. He's big and rangy and he tries really hard. He's a plus on that end, I don't really buy Stan Van Gundy's argument. He. He made the case for Jokic. Very convincing case. He could. Like this should be a close vote. Jokic has done that much in the last three weeks of the season to like, reinvigorate his case. I don't buy the argument that Stan made that they're equivalent as defenders. I. Even though Jokic's size means he's an incredible rebounder, one of the best defensive rebounders in the league. And those defensive rebounds translate right into offense, right into Denver's. Absolutely unstoppable. Number one in the league with the bullet offense. I just don't think they're the same level defensively. And Shea, 55% from the field for a guard at 30 plus a game is ridiculous. Thought his playmaking went up this year. Leveled up a little bit this year. And you know, just like he's absolutely incredible. Like, I don't know what else to say about the guy. I think it also has to be mentioned.
- [05:21]
Chris Ryan
A.J.
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Zach Lowe
mitchell 57 games. Alex Caruso 56 games. Isaiah Hartenstein 47 games, and Jalen Williams, 33 games. So like the team was generally not there. And with Shea on the floor, 121 offensive rating. 105 defensive rating. That's plus 16 and a half. Boom. Elite.
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Chris Ryan
Without him.
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Zach Lowe
110. 107. So plus 3 net difference. About plus 13. That 110 number is interesting. That's like way below average at the team level on offensive. And here we are all these years later. We just don't have any evidence. If AJ Mitchell and Caruso had played more. They didn't. We don't have any evidence that the Thunder have like a functional high level, medium level, whatever, NBA offense without Shay's ability to score and play, make and not turn the ball over, which is a huge part of his skill set. It just like their offense just isn't close to good enough when he's not on the floor. Obviously the Nuggets as usual, are like a lot. I think it's a 11 with Jokic on the floor and minus a little bit with him off the floor. Spurs are plus 17ish, I think. So about the same that rating as Shea with Wemby on the floor and dead even without him. So all of these guys have airtight cases. We know about Wemby's defense. I just think Shea, start to finish has been by a little bit the mvp. If you wanted to award it to Jokic, wouldn't argue against you.
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Chris Ryan
Anyone else?
- [06:45]
Zach Lowe
I'd kind of argue against you. Considering Wemby played so, so many fewer minutes, about 400 fewer minutes than these guys. So Shay, back to back MVPs for me. And the wins have to matter too. Like it's not as big of a gap as it was last year, but the Thunder have been the best team all season and they've been wildly better with him on the floor. And they finished with 10 more wins in the Nuggets. It's not 18 like it was last year, so it's not dispositive on its own, but I'm going Shay mvp. All right, let's dispense with some easy ones. Defensive player of the year, Wemby. It should be unanimous. Chad Holmgren and Asar Thompson would be my ballot. Most improved player. Nikhil Alexander Walker, Jalen Duran, Ryan Rollins would be my ballot. Nikhil Alexander Walker, one of the absolute best stories of not just this season, but the past three, four or five years in the NBA. This is, he is the embodiment of what this award should be. This is the most wishy washy award. You can give it to a million different players every year. You guys, guys like Dennis Jenkins that barely even played. I think he played 23 minutes last year. Now he's the sixth man of the year candidate. He's almost more like a rookie than an improved player. Nikhil Alexander Walker is like mid career, astonishingly leveling up in a way that you just don't. So you don't see guys average 9 points a game, 10 points a game, go to a team to be a backup to an all star guard like Trae Young and then suddenly, oh, he's just a 21 a game scorer shooting 40% on a crazy number of threes. And he's one of the better, if not one of the best defensive guards in the entire league. He embodies the spirit in that he's not like a second or third year guy making like the expected age appropriate jump or even a big jump by those standards. Even a fourth year guy like Dern, he's, he's like middle of the road career. Dumped by New Orleans, dumped by Utah, dumped by Portland. I wouldn't quite say dumped by Minnesota. They had a money choice to make between Nikhil and Nas Reed. They chose Nas Reed for reasons that frankly still make sense to me. He's a very good player. 6 Man of the year candidate. They had these young guards, notably Dillingham, kind of in line to take the Nikhil role. They were not able to take it. And so the wolves had to go through a whole rigmarole to get IO Dusumnu in there. And he's a sixth man of the year candidate, too. And then Nikhil goes to Atlanta and just absolutely explodes. It's such an awesome story. He's a hard worker. Like, I was at a. A Hawks shoot around in Brooklyn.
- [09:05]
Chris Ryan
I want to say it was like
- [09:06]
Zach Lowe
eight to 10 games into the season, like, super early, and the Hawks were kind of scuffling, just calling their way around. They're probably around 500 a game under. They're playing the Nets, who stink, and shoot rounds getting done. I'm talking to some of the coaches, and then I walk back to the media area. Nikhil's like 10 paces in front of me, walking by himself and just muttering out loud like, it's a big game, man. We got to win this game. We got to take care of these games. It's a big game. We can't let these games go to waste. Just walking back to the Hawks locker room, talking to nobody but himself about what an important game, like the 10th game of the season against a crapo Brooklyn Nets team was. And I've always stuck with me, like, this guy cares about the right stuff. He's the most improved player. There's a million different candidates, but that's my ballot. Coach of the year, Joe Missoula, J.B. bickerstaff, Mitch Johnson. I think Missoula and Bickerstaff are a clear one, too, in whatever order you want to put him in. I think Missoula is fast approaching, if not equal to somebody like SPO as the most tactically sophisticated coach in the entire NBA. And obviously his relentlessness, his demand for perfect execution, for unrelenting effort has radiated throughout the entire Celtics team. And this is a staff award, too. This honors the player development staff of the Celtics who has turned all of these role players like Baylor, Scheimen, Jordan Walsh, Hugo Gonzalez, Luca Garza, on and on into better players than anybody thought that they could be in an opportunity that they had never gotten before, to the point that the Celtics just dusted the Orlando Magic, who needed to win the game, even though they treated the game as a formality. By sending Desmond Bain back over to the bench to just chill out after getting 82 games.
- [10:46]
Chris Ryan
They're like, oh, my God, Desmond, we need you.
- [10:48]
Zach Lowe
The backup Celtics are beating us. What a farce that was by the Orlando Magic. Congrats on finishing eighth in the east, by the way. Bicker Steps instills That same culture. I thought his lineup combinations were largely on point. JJ Red squeezed 50 plus wins out. Lakers and Lakers fans. Remember who is the only one who took the Lakers over this guy? Lakers, Lakers, who else? Certainly Darko Rajkovic, Charles Lee, Quinn Snyder, Mark Dagnall. Just. I think I've, I've picked him up the last two years. Same coach. Like I don't like. Should we still just pick them? They have the best team. They do crazy creative stuff all the time. David Adelman, Thiago Splitter, those are some of the names I put. But Mitch Johnson, 60, whatever wins that the spurs got, that's pretty crazy. They have a sort of unwieldy roster of young guys, veterans, young guards, learning on the fly. And he, and he is deserves credit, I think for helping make that all work. So he gets my third spot. Okay, let's go to the hardest ones. 6 Man of the year. There are a lot of candidates and the leading two, I think Jaime Hawkes Jr. And Keldon Johnson are leaving pundits a little bit cold. Like there's this general feeling that there's not a slam dunk 6 Man of the year like there is in a lot of seasons. And I kind of understand that. Hawkes, who put up 16, 5 and 5 off the bench, you know, 30ish percent on threes. I thought his defense dropped off a little bit as his role on offense increased. You know, just heat or kind of a mediocrity. Keldon Johnson, outstanding shooting, but dipped down to 36% on threes by the end of the season. Very well rounded player for the Spurs. Attacks closeouts, can defend up and down, but particularly up the positional spectrum. We've seen him defend Yokichi event, but there's also the feeling that the spurs have like three legit six man of the year candidates and him and Dylan Harper and Luke Cornett. So is he is like valuable? The valuable quotient is something we don't often put into this discussion, but I think it belongs in this one. So I've seen people pick guys like Isaiah Stewart or put Isaiah Stewart on the ballot. Alex Caruso, Danis Jenkins. Luke Cornett's gotten some love to me a bunch of like AJ Mitchell. I heard a couple people pick him to win it. I just don't think those guys have played enough minutes and we're talking five, six hundred minutes less than the two leading candidates. And I, I get that you could just go with who's been the best player off the bench and for portions of the season. That could have been AJ Mitchell who's been outstanding. It could have been Danish Jenkins when Cade was hurt. But it's just a lot of minutes to make up. So here's how I ordered my ballot. I went Jaime Hakis Jr. 1, Keldon Johnson 2 and I would assume new three. And I was a weird case to put over all the guys I mentioned plus Nas Reed and Reed shepherd and and Tim Hardaway Jr. Quentin Grimes and there's a million guys. He's a weird case. He's got traded mid season and his net, the team's net ratings with him on the floor are about the same but like that guy just pops. He was mid-40s on threes the entire year. He completely transformed parts of Minnesota's offense the moment he got there with his speed. His ability to attack an open space helped him win some games when Ant was hurt and McDaniels was hurt and they were trying to figure out who to play and how to play him. I think he had an awesome season and Hawkes over Keldon Johnson is a really tough call. Kelden Johnson's like a heart and soul guy on that team. I talked about his defense already. I talked about the sort of like, I don't want to say holes in Jaime Hawkins juniors game but the parts of it that leave you a little cold. He still shot I think 50. Let me just check it out to make sure. I think like 55%, 52% on twos like a pretty solid number on twos, five dimes a game and the value quotient tipped it for me. Like Tyler Hero missed a bunch of games like half the season almost, maybe more. Norm Powell missed a bunch of games. They were just without like Terry Rozier just obviously we know what happened with Terry Rozier was a non entity. They were just without a lot of guys all the time and he played more minutes per game than Kelton Johnson. He's almost at 30 minutes a game and he felt integral to how they played. They're hard driving, one on one, fast break, ISO heavy style. He just felt so integral to their team that I think without him they the Heat lose a little bit more than the spurs would lose without Keldon Johnson. Although they don't have a player quite exactly like his archetype. Harrison Barnes is kind of close. So I went with Jaime Hawkins Jr. By the way, the great myth of the Miami Heat offense. Please people stop telling me that because they average a million points a game. This is the greatest offense in the history of the Heat. I've Heard that a few times before. What an incredible offensive year for they're like 15th in offensive efficiency. How are we still doing this where we don't understand pace and points per possession? All right now the hardest one Rookie of the year. I flip flopped on this one ten times during the season. I was ready to tilt Cooper flag in the winter when he had the 49 point game, which I think was against Charlotte and a couple other big games after that. I thought he passed Khan, then he got hurt. Khan ended up playing 10, 12 more games, a couple hundred more minutes, something like that. This comes down to this for me. Khan canippel is better than Cooper flag at one thing. It just so happens that the one thing is like the most important thing in basketball, which is shooting the basketball. He's not just a good three point shooter, he's an A plus three point shooter, led the league in three point shooting and is, you know, three point shooting is like, it's the meta skill. It's the skill that unlocks all of your other skills. You're a better driver because guys have to close out on you more because you're a better driver. You have more passes that you have access to, so you're a better passer and all those things lift up your teammates because they are the recipients of those drives and passes. You're a better screener and boy have they leaned into guard, guard, screens and all sorts off the ball, on the ball, whatever. In Charlotte under Charles Lee, you're a better screener because guys have to stick to you and it's panic time when you screen and flare out and screen and cut to the rim and Khan can make plays short rolling to the rim and that's why all the advanced stats love him. It's, it's not close between him and Cooper flag. Every warp and Schnorp. I've got them all charted. They all are like pretty adamant. Con Knpel is the rookie of the year. You can say Cooper flag fattened up at the end of the season in tanky games against bad teams or when Dallas was not competitive. Fine, like he did it pretty efficiently for the most part. But again, all the advanced stats point con and this is very unlike me because I think normally I would just sort of end the analysis there. Like when all the advanced stats are screaming pretty loudly that it's the same guy, I usually go with that guy and I'm not going with that guy. I'm going to pick Cooper flag in the end. And I, I, I think first of all the the advanced steps get narrowed toward the end of the season. Still, it's still sizable but it Cooper caught up a little bit and I can hear the Hornets fan saying wait, the the Hornets are better with Khan on the floor than they are off the floor by a bit. Now they're not good when Con plays without Lamello. We'll get there. The Mavs are about the same with Flag on or off the floor. The shooting efficiency is not close on twos or threes. Actually it's kind of close on twos. I think he got to. Let's see, flag finished 51% on twos, con 55% on twos. The true shooting is obviously not close because of the threes. Khan 42 and a half percent, Cooper Flag 29 and a half percent which I'm going to round up to 30 just because I'm nice. I guess this for me is like a shooting can't be the whole thing. Cooper flag putting up 217 and 5 on like semi respectable 47% from the floor. Semi respectable shooting numbers on this team. I think people that weren't watching the Mavericks just don't have any idea how busted this roster was. Like sometimes there was a point guard, sometimes there wasn't. Sometimes there was a point guard who's a G league or sometimes there was no point guard, sometimes there was a representative starting center in Daniel Gafford, sometimes it was Dwight Powell, sometimes it was no center at all. Derek Lively didn't play the entire season. P.J. washington played here and there. It was just a complete mess of a roster and it's completely distinct from what Khan enjoyed in Charlotte where he got to play with LaMelo Ball who's a borderline All NBA candidate and was healthy. Brandon Miller who had a breakout season and was healthy. Musa Diabate rounded out their starting five. Miles Bridges had a good season. Their bench with Kobe, White and Grant Williams and Kalkbrenner and Ceon James. It's like a well oiled machine of a team. He is at the forefront of it with Lamelo and Miller but it's very much a three man machine that is well coached. And Khan defensively. Defensively Cooper Flag is better. I should mention that the size and the rebounding and the defense and I just think what he managed to do in that team context in Dallas. To me the advanced stats in the shooting can't be everything. The all around play, the defense. The team context has to matter a little bit. I think Cooper Flag will be a better player than Con Canyon. I'M fine with either choice. To be clear, here's what you can miss me with. And I've seen this from analysts, I've heard it privately from people lobbying for either player to me, even though I don't have a ballot, being like, oh, it's absurd if you pick that guy. Come on, it's obvious, Zach, you got to pick our guy. Come on, Zach. It's absurd to pick. It's not absurd and it's not obvious.
- [20:14]
Adam Mares
To me.
- [20:15]
Zach Lowe
It's a close race. The context of the teams are so wildly different that it's hard to compare. And I'm just going with the guy
- [20:22]
Chris Ryan
that I think is going to be
- [20:23]
Zach Lowe
a better player in the end and did a lot with little functionality around him by the slimmest of slimmest of margins, which is very unlike me. And I put VJ Edgecomb third because of the minutes issues. Okay, those are the he played like a thousand more minutes than Dylan Harper, who I think per minute has probably been better than Vijay Edgecomb. But the minutes are the minutes. Okay, all NBA, all rookie, all defense, and then we're out of here. All NBA again. No Luca, no Cade, no Ant. First team Shea Wemby, Jokic, Jalen Brown, Donovan Mitchell, My mvp. Valid. Second team Kawhi Leonard. I can see the argument for him making first team. He's been better per minute than Jalen Brown. And Donovan Mitchell, I'm putting him second team Jalen Brunson, Jamal Murray. Congratulations. Jamal Murray, all these years, when is Jokic going to play with an All Star? When is Jokic going to play with an all NBA guy? And you kind of thought like, ah, Jamal Murray might squeak into the All Star game, maybe make a third team. All NBA. No second team. All NBA. And he's all NBA. Even if the other guys all qualified, he's all NBA one way or another. So Kawhi, Jalen Brunson, Jamal Murray, Kevin Durant, unassailable numbers. And I put Tyrese Maxey on the second team. He'd be bumped the third team if all the guys were healthy, but they're not. And he just played an enormous amount of minutes for a team that needed every second. Third team Jalen Duran, he's a must. Jalen Johnson, I think he's a must. Chet Holmgren, second best defender in the league offensively, not what everyone dreams of him being, but still pretty damn good shot super efficiently from two. And my last two spots came down to a whole bunch of guys. Cat, Scotty Barnes, Evan Mobley, Shen Goon, James Harden, Lamelo Ball, Danny Abdia who kind of. I wouldn't say he struggled because Portland Surgeon to the eighth seed but his shooting dropped off a little bit, his defense dropped off a little bit. I ultimately went with Karl Anthony Towns and Scotty Barnes as the last two guys on third team all NBA. Obviously they'd get booted if we had a fully healthy or even semi fully healthy roster of candidates, but they are there as all NBA players. Cat, I think had a kind of underrated season honestly and a really nice last two months. Scotty, you're going to nitpick. The three point shooting isn't even take him really anymore. You just have to consider him more of a 45 on offense and you put in his playmaking, his defense, his finishing at the basket, his transition play. I think there's enough there over a bunch of frankly kind of flawed candidates. And the advanced stats, really by the way, if you care, they also lean Cat among this group. Lamelo's advanced stats are off the charts but they kind of protected his minutes and he's pretty far behind in the minutes category. So that's all NBA. What do we got next? All rookie. This was fun and I flip flop a bunch of times. What I did not flip flop on was the big four are on first team. Flag Knipple, Edgecomb Harper and I kept Maxine Renault as my fifth first team guy. Bad team, tanky team. I get it. He played against starters. He started 56 games, 60% on twos and when you watch them it was functional, real NBA basketball. Defensively he's going to struggle. That's fine. He's a rookie. All the rookies struggle on defense for the most part. Not VJ Edgecombe, but a lot of them do. I just think he did a little bit more in a little bit more minutes, almost 2,000 than the guys on my second team who are. Without further ado, Cedric Coward, who I think is a first team level player but kind of didn't play enough after the first half of the season. Jeremiah Fears, some big scoring games late in the season. Big time silly season. But again not inefficient. Guys got some zip, some vision. Derek Queen tapered off a little bit. He was first team halfway through the season. He's second team now. Ace Bailey and then my last spot. First I had Ryan Kalkbrenner halfway through the season. Then two weeks ago I had a week ago I had Will Riley a week ago at Will Riley and in the end I'm going with Colin Murray Boyles I just look, this is the 10th spot on second team, all rookie. He's behind both of those other guys, Kalkburner and Riley in minutes and I just don't really care for the 10. For the 10th spot, I'm going to go with the guy who is impacting winning on a real team. And since he came back from his thumb injury, particularly the last 10 games of the season, that guy has been a freaking force on both ends of the floor. He makes winning plays all game long, tipped out rebounds, offensive put backs, good extra passes. I'd like to see him shoot more. He. He like has a little bit of layup phobia sometimes that I think is probably linked to his thumb injury. He's an ace defender. He's just more of an impact player for a good team right now than Will Riley, who put up awesome numbers, did clean up in garbage time in some games and we all know Wizards games have a lot of garbage time. And K. Brenner is a rock solid choice. He protects the rim really well and he finishes around the rim really well. I'm just going with CMB and all defense. Last but not least, first team, Wemby Chet, Asar Thompson, Bam Adebayo and Scotty Barnes. I flipped him onto first team, second team, OG Anunoby, Kason Wallace, Rudy Gobert, Derek White and Dyson Daniels, who I don't think has got enough credit for a really good season on both ends of the ball. Other than his three point shooting. A lot of other candidates. But those are my final awards picks. Apologies to Bill Simmons and the Bill Simmons Taxi Uber service. I might get fired. Who knows? Doc out in Milwaukee. Not a shocker. See what happens. Giannis with yet more ambiguous comments on Trash bag day saying he doesn't control. He's not totally in control of his future. True to a degree. The Bucks have to actually offer an extension and if they do and you sign it, you do seed some level of control over your future. They can now, after a certain amount of time, trade you, against your wishes to anywhere you want to go. But just stop, just stop with the like, it's not in my control. I don't know what they're doing now for the playing time thing. That's their decision. I think it was a fair decision, but that is their decision. That was not in his control. He's right about that. The General like, my future in Milwaukee is not up to me. Yeah, it is. Like you hold a lot of the cards. You're going into an extension eligible summer. You Will signal to them whether you're likely or unlikely to sign it at some point. And when you do that, you will determine their course of action. James Borrego, I think he did a really good job in New Orleans. I hope they actually give him a fair shake. I hope this isn't one of those things where they have the candidates already secretly in mind. But we're going to give you a token interview. He. He committed full board to that team. They got much more competitive when he took over for Willie Green. He deserves a real shot at it.
- [26:59]
Chris Ryan
He did.
- [27:00]
Zach Lowe
If he doesn't get this job, James Rago deserves another shot somewhere in the NBA. And the Kings are keeping Doug Christie as their head coach.
- [27:10]
Adam Mares
Who.
- [27:11]
Zach Lowe
You would have thought that the intentional foul on Seth Curry in the bonus in a close game would have been
- [27:20]
Chris Ryan
maybe the last straw.
- [27:22]
Zach Lowe
No. In fact, we're going to proactively come out and leak to our favorite reporters. Sources say we're keeping Doug Christie. I mean, okay, I guess it doesn't matter who coaches the Kings next year. I guess it's just they don't care.
- [27:35]
Chris Ryan
I don't.
- [27:35]
Zach Lowe
I have not seen or heard of anything on the court from around the team that would suggest that the Kings, if they wanted to, could not find a better coach for next season than Doug Crease. Now, you can say the Kings were competitive to the end of the year and they were finished like whatever, 9 and 10 in their last 19 games. Whatever BS record they got. Congratulations. They beat a bunch of tankers. Levine missed the whole end of the season. Domas missed most of the season. Keegan Murray missed a lot of this.
- [28:06]
Chris Ryan
I mean, we can go on and on.
- [28:07]
Zach Lowe
It was a lost year.
- [28:10]
Chris Ryan
He finally.
- [28:11]
Zach Lowe
Doug Christie finally remembered that Devin Carter and Nick Clifford were like, on the team and our first round picks and maybe we should try to play them more. And played Renault quite a lot as well. Like Nick Clifford, by the way, he's got a little herky jerky to his game. I think he's gonna be decent. And. And next year, yeah, you get all the guys healthy. You get a top whatever pick. You know, you might be rare on the go. The only way that. The only way this makes sense is there. There are only two ways this makes sense. Number one, Vivek loves Doug Christie. Check. Vivek love. If you played for the Kings in the early 2000s, you're in forever. And if you ever go out like Vladi Divach, you can always come back in. Vivek might be embarrassed to pay yet another coach to go away. Probably check. And Scott Perry, the gm gets to kick the I fired my coach card down the line. Another transaction cycle or two.
- [29:00]
Chris Ryan
Because once you do that once or
- [29:01]
Zach Lowe
twice, you're next up. So I'm shocked. I thought for sure they'd turn to another coach. They did not. But the Kangs are going to Kang. And that's it for my awards. You hate them?
- [29:14]
Chris Ryan
Love them.
- [29:14]
Zach Lowe
I agonized over them. I looked at all the stats, I watched all the games, et cetera, et cetera. Those are my picks. Take them or leave them. And now onto the live show in Denver. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA play In Tournament is back and you can get better payouts this NBA play in on FanDuel. All FanDuel customers can claim a profit boost every day of the tournament. Plus you can also enter FanDuel's play in Palooza for a chance to win a share of $2 million in bonus bets every day of the Play in tournament.
- [29:45]
Chris Ryan
All you have to do is place
- [29:46]
Zach Lowe
a live bet using your Play in Palooza token. Please visit FanDuel.com low play your game with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA 21 over in select states or 18 over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. No purchase necessary. Opt in required limit 1 entry profit boost tokens issued as non withdrawable Profit Boost Token Prize is issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expires seven days after a seat gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chadincenetican this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. The playoffs are almost here. My favorite thing about the NBA playoffs they the intensity and the strategy. Every game is treated like a must win game. Even when A team is up 30 every quarter. Every half has a new adjustment that you got to really be dialed in to track. Oh, that guy's guarding that guy now.
- [30:38]
Chris Ryan
Why are they doing that?
- [30:39]
Zach Lowe
How is the other team going to counter that? It's the chess match that we don't really see quite as much of in the regular season. It's dialed up from the opening tip of game one in the playoffs. Playoffs are just awesome in the NBA. You know what else is just as great?
- [30:52]
Chris Ryan
Opening up a new bottle of Michelob Ultra.
- [30:54]
Zach Lowe
It's refreshing but light with only 95 calories. Plus as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, unique prizes and more Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open US Residents 21 plus begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules@michelobaltra.com courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. What a big day for Denver Nuggets fans.
- [31:33]
Chris Ryan
They get the three seed and the hardest possible road to the finals. Their superstar player is probably gonna come second in MVP voting. And the Zach Low show is in town for one night only with the one and only the MVP of the ringer, the MVP of Grantland. Chris Ryan in the house.
- [31:55]
Guest Analyst
Denver, it's great to meet you. Joel does not know what he's missing. No, it's awesome to be here. Thanks, Zach.
- [32:03]
Chris Ryan
He will be anointed the official Joel Embiid apologist. We will make him do that later. So Denver, by the way, awesome city.
- [32:11]
Zach Lowe
Always love coming here.
- [32:12]
Chris Ryan
The weather is unbelievable. By way of intro, I had never been to Denver before the fall of 2017 and I came because Nikola Jokic
- [32:22]
Zach Lowe
was in his third season.
- [32:24]
Chris Ryan
The Nuggets had just signed Paul Millsap. Remember Paul Millsap? Total badass player and kind of a landmark signing for the Nuggets. Remember he like, of course he spurned other teams to come play for the Denver Nuggets.
- [32:37]
Adam Mares
That didn't happen.
- [32:39]
Chris Ryan
And I was like, I got to
- [32:40]
Zach Lowe
go meet this guy.
- [32:41]
Chris Ryan
I got to go see this up close because he was clearly special.
- [32:44]
Zach Lowe
I think he was only. Jokic was only 22 years old that year and he averaged 18, 11 and 7.
- [32:51]
Chris Ryan
Last time he didn't make the all
- [32:52]
Zach Lowe
star team was 2017, 2018 and that
- [32:54]
Chris Ryan
and the Nuggets had had such a,
- [32:56]
Zach Lowe
like a weird 20 years, like 90s.
- [32:59]
Chris Ryan
I mean, you guys are how many was anyone here alive and aware of the 1990s? So those people, those people other than Dikembe Mutombo hugging a basketball, lived a very dark time. Like Rafe lafrens was heavily involved. Nicholas, I can never pronounce Skeeta's name.
- [33:19]
Guest Analyst
I think we just go Skeeta, Skeeta.
- [33:21]
Chris Ryan
Like just a very dark time. And then Melo got drafted. How is do we like Melo now? And it was like. It was a good time. It was a good time. There are a lot of first round losses. Let's just be honest. There's 2009 when you guys are like two. Trevor Ariza steals away from making the NBA Finals.
- [33:42]
Guest Analyst
Sorry, Lakers.
- [33:43]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [33:44]
Chris Ryan
And then the mellow thing goes sideways. Traded to New York, and you have this brief like, hey, this is a crazy fun team with George Carl and Danilo Gallinari. And Ty Lawson's running around, and Kenneth Freed is, like, dunking stuff.
- [33:57]
Guest Analyst
And then Iguodala.
- [33:58]
Chris Ryan
We're gonna get to Iguodala. We're gonna get. We're gonna get to Iguodala. If Andre were here, he would be like, that's not enough.
- [34:08]
Zach Lowe
But boost.
- [34:08]
Chris Ryan
I want more. I want more boost. And then there was, like, this.
- [34:13]
Zach Lowe
That period kind of ended with that Warrior series that they lose in the first round.
- [34:17]
Chris Ryan
Gallo got hurt right before that series. We'll never know how far that that was.
- [34:22]
Zach Lowe
That was.
- [34:22]
Chris Ryan
We both love that team. The George Carl Nuggets.
- [34:24]
Guest Analyst
I adore that. The Ray Felt and Ty Lawson team. Is that right, then? Right?
- [34:28]
Chris Ryan
They're around that era. Fareed Gallinari, Javale McGee. George Carl pioneered the strategy, or maybe Javale McGee did by accident, of standing out of bounds during the game as a way of spacing the floor. JaVale McGee would literally stand out of bounds. The NBA had to change the rules. To clarify, you are actually not allowed Javale McGee to just stand in, like, the third row of the audience. And then it petered out. And then they get this fat guy from Serbia in the second round during a Taco Bell commercial. And as soon as they let him play as a rookie, it was like, whoa, what? What is this guy? And I had to come see him, and I met him up close and we talked and I watched a bunch of games. That year is the year they missed the playoffs on the last day of the season.
- [35:14]
Zach Lowe
But they had.
- [35:14]
Chris Ryan
Remember, they had to fight and win, like, seven of their last day just to get down to that game. That proved, like, some toughness to me. The next year, they make the playoffs, beat San Antonio in seven, lose to Portland in seven. Kind of unremarkable, right?
- [35:28]
Zach Lowe
Like, that was not a great Portland team.
- [35:30]
Chris Ryan
It was not, like, a great showing.
- [35:31]
Zach Lowe
It was fine.
- [35:32]
Chris Ryan
And then the bubble comes, and they're getting waxed in the bubble. 3:1, Utah giving up a million points. And I remember thinking at that exact moment, when they're down 3:1, I had, like, a column ready to go, like, wrapping up the first round. And part of the column was like, maybe this just doesn't work. Maybe, like, the defense will never be good enough with Jokic and Murray and
- [35:53]
Zach Lowe
whatever else is surrounding them.
- [35:55]
Chris Ryan
And they storm back to win that series. They storm back to Beat the Clippers and then they lose to the Lakers. Whatever.
- [36:02]
Zach Lowe
We'll just sift that over here.
- [36:04]
Chris Ryan
And then there's the Jamal Murray injury and all that. But think about everything that's happened since then. A championship in 2023. Three MVPs for Nikola Jokic.
- [36:20]
Zach Lowe
Maybe he should have four previous to the four. Five, three.
- [36:27]
Guest Analyst
Give me one thing, you know,
- [36:31]
Chris Ryan
and now. And now all these years, like, is he ever going to play with another All Star? Jamal Murray doesn't just make the All Star team. He has an incredible year. He's going to make second team all NBA. And here we are. The Denver Nuggets are the third seed. And now this is where I have to allow you to take the floor. You are representing the entire city of Philadelphia, the 76ers organization.
- [36:57]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [36:57]
Chris Ryan
I know that you have prepared some remarks about Joel Embiid, who has not been in Denver. I mean, I may have been in 2017. I don't know if he's been here since 2017.
- [37:06]
Guest Analyst
The last time is 19. Right. He hasn't been here in, like, six years. And he does well against Denver in Philly. I would just like to say I'm sorry. You know, we've been robbed of, like, a truly amazing big man rivalry. I can't explain it.
- [37:21]
Chris Ryan
Rivalry? Yeah.
- [37:22]
Guest Analyst
I mean, like, it could have been. We've been robbed of it. And I also think that, like, I'd like to reach out across the aisle here to you guys and just say, I hope you're happy. You know, I didn't think that I would be adding to the list of Bell's palsy and orbital fracture caused by Markelle Faultz or tearing his meniscus up 31 against the Wizards on a dunk that didn't need to happen. Or disfiguring his finger. But now here we are with a nearly burst appendicitis appendix. I got to see the next episode of the Pit to see how that works out, but, yeah, we are in hell. This has been going on for years. Edgecombe is the only reason I watch basketball. Edgecombe and Maxi. But I hope you guys are happy. I think you're going to kick ass in the playoffs.
- [38:14]
Chris Ryan
All right, well, let's get to it then. We're going to have some fun. We got some guests coming after Chris. We're going to do a little around the NBA stuff now, starting with the last day of the season. Spurs Nuggets. I see a Spurs spurs shirt right in the front row.
- [38:28]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Great.
- [38:28]
Chris Ryan
What are you doing here? What's happening? And I thought, there's mutual interest between the spurs and the Nuggets. And having the spurs win this game, The Nuggets go down to the four seed, they get an easier first round opponent. The spurs could have manipulated the brackets so that the Nuggets and the Thunder would have to play each other. And they kind of tried to win, except they didn't play their best player. The Nuggets played a bunch of backups. They win, they seem like totally okay with it. And that makes me stand like the Spurs.
- [39:00]
Zach Lowe
I don't know what they were thinking.
- [39:01]
Chris Ryan
They should have absolutely gone all out to win that game. They have set themselves up for a really hard road. And I think the Nuggets were like, you know what? We're gonna have to beat the Thunder and the spurs in some order, no matter what. Let's just have some fun and let's win. And I'm here to tell you, the basketball gods see that there's no, there's no shenan. There's no shenanigans. There's no ducking any smoke. Minnesota, this is the third time in four years. It's been a tough matchup. Who cares? We're going, we're going for Minnesota. If we have to go Minnesota, Spurs, Thunder, so be it. I like the attitude. The basketball God should reward it. And I, I just, I love that they did it.
- [39:41]
Guest Analyst
On behalf of everyone watching the NBA this season, thank you, Denver, for doing that. Because in a year of aspiration burner gate tanking discussions, Chauncey Billups, local legend,
- [39:54]
Chris Ryan
Shanti Billups
- [39:57]
Guest Analyst
of everything that happened this NBA season, the fact that we get two weeks of Nuggets, Timberwolves, and hopefully Nuggets, spurs, is unbelievable.
- [40:07]
Chris Ryan
It could be. It could be absolutely unbelievable. And I just, I just thought it was cool that they did it. And I was out to dinner with a couple of my friends from Denver, one of whom, Scott is here, is a lifelong Nuggets fan. We were out to dinner the other night. There you go. We were out to dinner the other night and one of his buddies made. Aaron, made a great point, said, you know, you know what? I'm tired. He wanted the Nuggets to get the third seed and have this route to the finals because he said, you know what? I'm tired of hearing this shit about how the Nuggets had an easy road to the championship. How we had. We were supposed to apologize for playing the Lakers, the Heat play in teams and all this. All we can do is play the teams in front of us. And this Guy was like, you know what? Give me the gauntlet. I want the gauntlet. Because if we win, no one can ever say anything about us again. And it will be like a super championship. I love the whole attitude. Let's go. Let's have all of it. Because you see, you. The one thing. To quote Brian Winhorse, you never apologize for a championship. You never apologize for how you get there. You need a lot of luck to get there. The Nuggets championship was awesome. No apologies necessary.
- [41:11]
Guest Analyst
I think it's the right move. I think you're right. The basketball gods are going to smile down on it. It would just be. It would just be, like, kind of, like, amazing to get a bunch of one thing, 31, 28 games, like, over the next couple of weeks. And that's what this has a recipe to be.
- [41:27]
Chris Ryan
Jokic and Ant.
- [41:28]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [41:28]
Chris Ryan
Jokic going at Gobert. Gobert maybe stumbling around a little bit.
- [41:32]
Guest Analyst
A little bit, yeah.
- [41:33]
Chris Ryan
Could be fun. Okay, we're going to go around the NBA. We're going to go rapid fire. We're going to pick the play in games. Because this is not just a nugget show. We got to do everything. So we're going to pick the play in games. Orlando. Philly.
- [41:43]
Guest Analyst
Philly. But for a very specific reason. It's not hubris. It's because we deserve to lose to Boston. It's because I'm trapped in an episode of Black mirror where every 18 months, people in green baptize me in fire and I cry. And then I say, well, maybe next year if we could get a beat and PG healthy at the same time. But it's not going to happen. But I. I have a feeling that the Sixers will beat the Magic and then get smoked by Boston.
- [42:10]
Chris Ryan
Did you all see what Orlando did on the last day of the season? What a disaster. Baylor Shiren's very good. You know who else is very good is Desmond Bain, who played six minutes, and then I think they forgot he was on the team. Were like, we actually might need you to beat the JV Celtics. Can you come back?
- [42:29]
Guest Analyst
There were a lot of shenanigans yesterday because it was like Bane played. Mikhail Bridges played for 18 seconds in order to get his, like, Iron man thing.
- [42:37]
Chris Ryan
Iron Man.
- [42:38]
Guest Analyst
And there was Wemby wearing a headband, but with street clothes. Yesterday on the bench, like, I was just like, you guys just play or don't play. But a lot of this, like, my
- [42:47]
Chris Ryan
point is, against all evidence to the contrary, I'm going to pick Orlando to actually get their shit together. For one game on the road and beat the Sixers without Joel Embiid. Not a tall order. Charlotte, Miami.
- [43:00]
Guest Analyst
Charlotte. I believe. And it's also, again, we need this. We need Lamelo and Khan and Buddy Brandon in the. In the playoffs.
- [43:11]
Chris Ryan
I'm a little worried about this matchup for Charlotte. I'm a little worried about it. Miami has a little something on them. God, they're with their one on one offense is like. Charlotte doesn't have great one on one defenders. Miami just like the play in infuses them with some annoying heat energy. Hashtag heat culture. I'm picking Charlotte anyway. Charlotte's at home. They're better. All right, let's go to the conference of choice here.
- [43:32]
Zach Lowe
The Western Conference. Clippers.
- [43:33]
Chris Ryan
Warriors. The most depressing possible matchup between these two franchises in the last 15 years. Do you even care who wins?
- [43:41]
Guest Analyst
I. I don't. I don't think the warriors do either. I think Clippers win this one.
- [43:47]
Chris Ryan
I'm going to pick the Clippers because
- [43:50]
Guest Analyst
the warriors could get into the lottery if they lose this. Right.
- [43:53]
Zach Lowe
Of course.
- [43:54]
Guest Analyst
It's in their best interest, maybe not to go into the playoffs.
- [43:58]
Chris Ryan
You know who can't get into the lottery? The Los Angeles Clippers. Because the Oklahoma City Thunder will gladly take that pick and everything else that they know. Yeah, that's right.
- [44:06]
Zach Lowe
I'm sorry.
- [44:08]
Chris Ryan
Everybody hates the Thunder. It's just. It's just a continued delight.
- [44:11]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [44:13]
Chris Ryan
And then Portland, Phoenix.
- [44:14]
Guest Analyst
I got Portland here.
- [44:16]
Chris Ryan
I also am picking the Blazers. I think the Blazers are kind of fun and kind of interesting. This is going to be a rock fight. It'll be good for the playoffs if like a young, frisky Blazers team. So we agree on that. Okay. Before we get to the actual playoffs, Chris and I, this is your idea. We're going to play a fun game of Nuggets we wish we could have seen play with Nikola Jokic. This is his idea. I made a list. You made a list? Would you like to go?
- [44:42]
Guest Analyst
Yeah. So I have Slotted in. It's kind of cheating, but I put him on the 1011 team and I have him moving in to the 5 instead of Kufos and Mozgov. So he winds up playing with Melvin Eli, Kenya Martin, Aaron Aflalo, Junior Gallo, Al Harrington.
- [45:01]
Chris Ryan
Well, you're just, you're just slotting him straight on right in there.
- [45:03]
Guest Analyst
Like, like, let's just move. Go back in time. Time machine.
- [45:06]
Chris Ryan
Okay, I have, I have. There's a surprising amount of like old Nuggets who could have been their versions of Aaron Gordon to Nikola Jokic. First of all, how awesome is Aaron Gordon? I honestly think. I honestly think Mr. Nugget is one of like the five best basketball stories of the last 10 years. Wayward soul in Orlando trying to be like LeBron and Paul George. And the Nuggets are like, I can see what you're going to be and you're going to love it and you're going to thrive and you're going to make more money and be more famous just doing the Aaron Gordon stuff. And he comes here and he accepts his destiny. They immediately become a juggernaut. I think the Nuggets probably have one more title if Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. Are not injured in those two years, 21 and 22. But I just love Aaron Gordon so much. But Kenyon Martin would have been a great Aaron Gordon. Marcus Camby could have been a good Aaron Gordon. Antonio McDyess could have been a good Aaron Gordon. I. One of my. This is an old timey one. I always love lafonzo Ellis. Lafonzo Ellis is one of my man. Ty Lawson running the running fast breaks with. With Nicole Jokic would have been amazing.
- [46:21]
Zach Lowe
You want to.
- [46:22]
Chris Ryan
You want to pick a couple?
- [46:23]
Guest Analyst
I would love to have seen Jokic drop off an alley oop to Birdman every once in a while.
- [46:28]
Chris Ryan
Birdman.
- [46:30]
Guest Analyst
Birdman on that 0809Housing Crisis Team with. Was that Chauncey?
- [46:38]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:39]
Guest Analyst
That was just incredible. Like, so, yeah. Birdman running the baseline.
- [46:47]
Chris Ryan
Maybe not a popular pick. Maybe Carmelo Anthony. We could have had Team USA Carmelo Anthony before Team USA Carmelo Anthony on Team usa. That's what it would have been playing with Jokic. Super high iq, could shoot. Everything would have been perfect.
- [47:03]
Guest Analyst
I would like to have seen Joker play with double agent Andre Aguadala. Smart basketball player, I think would have been really effective.
- [47:14]
Chris Ryan
So he, he. Chris just unknowingly stole my thunder. My number one pass nugget that I would wish to see to play with Nikola Jokic is Andre Iguodala. Do we still consider him a double agent? A traitor? Is that a thing that Andre. Andre is. Andre actually could rival Jokic for basketball genius. And to see the two of them together would have been. They'll stop it, get over it. You guys won a title. It's been 10 years since then. Andre is a genius.
- [47:45]
Zach Lowe
Jokic is a genius.
- [47:48]
Chris Ryan
They would have been doing stuff on the floor that the other teams would have been like, I don't even know what's happening right now.
- [47:52]
Guest Analyst
I think that, like it's good to have villains on your team, but you got to let it go. You guys want a ring? I mean, it's just like.
- [48:00]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [48:02]
Adam Mares
Never.
- [48:03]
Chris Ryan
Who did. Who did you guys.
- [48:04]
Zach Lowe
What was that?
- [48:05]
Chris Ryan
That was all part of the Dwight Howard trade, right? Aaron Afalo.
- [48:08]
Zach Lowe
That's right.
- [48:09]
Chris Ryan
Also a very good player. Okay, the playoffs are here. Now it's time. Real season is here. We have four first round series that are set and we rank them all in entertainment value. Yeah, I'm going to do my list and we'll compare as the least entertaining first round series. I have Rockets, Lakers an unlikely choice, but given the fact that Luka is injured and Reeves is injured and the Rockets are not. The Rockets are like the anti Nuggets. The Nuggets are super fun to watch. Like, I love waking up and watching a Nuggets game. The Rockets are like, God, this is.
- [48:44]
Guest Analyst
The basketball is bad and they hate each other.
- [48:46]
Chris Ryan
Can you just.
- [48:46]
Guest Analyst
It's just not cool.
- [48:48]
Chris Ryan
Well, look, I mean the. Anytime you have a. It's not even a burner scandal. It's like a text thread.
- [48:54]
Guest Analyst
It's fully like a leaked text message thread. Yeah.
- [48:57]
Chris Ryan
It's not great for team chemistry when someone allegedly was like, so and so sucks. So and so can't shoot. So and so is.
- [49:05]
Guest Analyst
And like three of those guys follow him around like, you're my mentor, right? And he's just like, sure, protege. Just one second, third.
- [49:14]
Chris Ryan
Third on my entertaining list. So second least entertaining. I don't think NBA TV is doing any first round series, but that was always the saddest thing is when your team got like the unofficial NBA tv. No one cares about your playoff series series like, oh, the Hawks and whoever. So welcome to NBA tv. Cleveland Cavaliers and Toronto Raptors. Despite the fact that if Cleveland actually lost this series and James Harden crapped the bed in Cleveland losing his series, it would be massively entertaining on a lot of levels and have huge ramifications for the Cavs. But I cannot say I'm excited to watch that series.
- [49:50]
Guest Analyst
There's a. Just Speaking of NBA TV, there's like a whole genre of YouTube which is these like NBA TV highlights of like anything you want to see over the last 20 years, all scored by music that would make IKEA music sound like the Strokes and it's a guy being like, Joel Embiid goes up for a dunk that is going to leave a mark and it's like Embiid tore his knee muscle fully. It is the strangest bit of Internet ephemera is NBA TV Highlight reels rip
- [50:22]
Chris Ryan
NBA TV first round series. It was always the Hawks graveyard. Like Hawks Pacers was just every year. Yes, they're going to be on NBA tv. Second most entertaining first round series. I cannot wait for Knicks.
- [50:33]
Adam Mares
Hawks.
- [50:33]
Chris Ryan
I'm all in on Knicks Hawks. The Hawks are super weird. I still don't really understand what's happening and how they became awesome. But they're completely random. They play a random style. And the Knicks, look, people ask me, like, who's your team? Who do you root for? I'll let you in on a secret. I root for my own convenience. So the Knicks getting far in the playoffs, as someone who lives just outside of New York is good for me also. A Knicks disaster in the playoffs is very good for content. And this is like a very fraught, fraught year for the Knicks. There's a cat. There's like a cat existential crisis.
- [51:04]
Guest Analyst
It's been going on for years.
- [51:06]
Chris Ryan
Every 10 days like clockwork. There's like a cat. Is this working? Why is this not working? Why does he not seem to have any control over his extremities? Why is he falling all the time? What's happening? Is Mikhail Bridges ever going to get 10 points in a game again? There's just a lot going on.
- [51:21]
Guest Analyst
I do think if you, you like blind taste test, like the Hawks are playing better than the Knicks right now. But I really, for your sake, want the Knicks to make it to the second round.
- [51:30]
Chris Ryan
I don't even care. I just. I'm here for the entertainment. And then the number one most anticipated, most entertaining first round series. The Denver Nuggets seeded third. Denver, Minnesota. Roman numeral three. The rubber match. The third time they played in the last four years. And to help us break it down, you guys all know him, you should follow him. From DNVR Sports. Adam Mares is in the house. There he is. Right here. Hey, so who's the MVP this year?
- [52:15]
Adam Mares
Don't start with me. It's Jokic.
- [52:17]
Chris Ryan
It is now. It's Jokic now.
- [52:19]
Adam Mares
I changed my mind in the last 30 minutes.
- [52:21]
Chris Ryan
Okay. Denver, Minnesota, 2023.
- [52:26]
Adam Mares
Yeah.
- [52:26]
Chris Ryan
Four one nuggets. They called it the toughest series they played the entire championship run. Mildly insulting to the other three teams that came after them was the first round series.
- [52:34]
Adam Mares
I think that was intentional, by the way.
- [52:36]
Chris Ryan
What do you mean?
- [52:37]
Adam Mares
I think there was a. There was an enjoyment for saying Lakers series wasn't that tough. Sun series wasn't that tough.
- [52:41]
Zach Lowe
Minnesota.
- [52:42]
Guest Analyst
The reverse asterisks. It's like, oh, you say we had an Easy round, like. No, they did.
- [52:46]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [52:46]
Chris Ryan
The Lakers series, that's the golden broom, right? Like the most competitive sweep of all time. Congratulations to the Lakers.
- [52:52]
Adam Mares
If I remember correctly, that was a sweep.
- [52:54]
Chris Ryan
Yep. Yeah, yeah, great job.
- [52:56]
Zach Lowe
Great.
- [52:56]
Chris Ryan
But they were close games. That's the one where Jokic makes the crazy jump shot in Anthony Davis's face at the end of game four.
- [53:02]
Zach Lowe
Right?
- [53:02]
Adam Mares
He had two of them. So. So he had three. Or actually three or four of them. But in game one, he had two of them. One at the end of the third quarter, as you were, if you might recall. And then he had another one in the fourth quarter.
- [53:13]
Chris Ryan
I remember the fourth quarter.
- [53:13]
Adam Mares
And then in game four was the one that kind of ended the series. It was close game. Like a minute left and he's on the left side over the head like that from about 40ft.
- [53:22]
Zach Lowe
Absolutely insane.
- [53:24]
Chris Ryan
One of the guys, Jokic, one of like the 900th reason I love him is he would always take heaves at the end of quarters. Didn't care about his field goal percentage. Is like, no, there's a 1% chance they're going to make this. I'm going to take it and all. Now the cowards have been awarded by the fact that their shots don't count now.
- [53:40]
Zach Lowe
Cowards.
- [53:41]
Adam Mares
I think he just enjoyed doing it though. Did you ever see the one where he had him throw it high because there was like half a second second and he couldn't grab it. So he winded from 90ft. He just did that trying to. And he came close.
- [53:54]
Chris Ryan
41 Nuggets. They go on to win the title. I always thought that series was kind of a turning point for Cat, actually. He like stabilized in that series. The Wolves would remind you. No Jada McDaniels, no Nazareth.
- [54:05]
Zach Lowe
If I'm remembering correctly, the next year
- [54:08]
Chris Ryan
epic seven game series ends in Denver. The Nuggets exhausted, worn down from defending the title. Still no one has repeated since. The warriors blow a 20 point lead at home in game seven. After Jokic in game five of that series in Minnesota.
- [54:24]
Zach Lowe
It was no.
- [54:24]
Chris Ryan
Was that in Denver game?
- [54:26]
Adam Mares
Which one?
- [54:27]
Chris Ryan
One of those five or six. Jokic has one of the greatest games I've ever seen.
- [54:30]
Adam Mares
Game 5 of an all time.
- [54:32]
Chris Ryan
It's like an unbelievable. And they lose that game and now here we are two years later. The Wolves think they have a little something on the Nuggets. It hasn't carried over this year. It's three one Nuggets, for whatever that's worth. This is going to be an awesome series.
- [54:46]
Zach Lowe
The star power is off the charts.
- [54:48]
Chris Ryan
These are two teams who I think could plausibly actually get to the finals. The west is loaded.
- [54:53]
Zach Lowe
The top two teams are incredible.
- [54:55]
Chris Ryan
I think Minnesota has that kind of upside. And look, Denver, everyone is nitpicking your defense. I think you're 21st in defense. I'm just here to tell you, Aaron Gordon is a monster. Peyton Watson, I think they need in this series. We'll see if he gets healthy. He's guarded ant a lot in the prior matchups. And if they ever get their defense a little bit in order. This offense is so absolutely ridiculous. It's like so easy for them to score. I've said on my pod a bunch of times, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Like, it's boring for them to get easy shots. Their offense is that good. All right, so give me what. What are we.
- [55:33]
Zach Lowe
How are you feeling about the series?
- [55:35]
Adam Mares
So I'm feeling great. And the way you're setting the table here. Yeah, I'm feeling great. I actually, I'm feeling. I'm actually pretty. I'm only nervous about how confident I am in this.
- [55:44]
Guest Analyst
The weirdest place.
- [55:46]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Adam Mares
Like, I want to extend it just to not feel, you know, too excited. But I think the defensive part is obviously huge. Aaron Gordon played 36 games this year. It feels like he played 50, 55 or something like 36. 36 games this year. So. So fewer than half. And the way you set the stage was that you'll make it sound like a continuation from 2023-24 to 26.
- [56:10]
Chris Ryan
Just let me have it cinematically, please,
- [56:12]
Adam Mares
which I love from a narrative standpoint. But I'm stepping in to say that I actually think both teams are meaningfully different. Just as I think both teams were meaningfully different in 24 than they were in 23, they're different again this year. And the biggest difference to me one is that Jamal Murray is just having an all time, all NBA season. I mean, if he's not. If he's not one of the all NBA teams and I actually, I think I did the list. I think he's second team all second.
- [56:37]
Chris Ryan
I don't have a ballot, but I have him second team all NBA. And on this podcast you will hear tomorrow I have like a 20 minute awards thing before I shout from the rooftops that Jamal Murray has to be second team all NBA.
- [56:49]
Adam Mares
I love it. Excellent. Jamal Murray averaged 18 points per game in 2024 against the Minnesota Timberwolves. 18. He had one game over 24 points. 24 points it was the game 735. I think he had 33 in the first half that series. Part of why he got slowed down. One, he was coming off of an injury. It didn't really get in playoff shape heading into that playoffs. But 2. Nikhil Alexander Walker is one of the single best players in the NBA in my opinion at evading the screen and everything with Denver is the two man game. It begins with a ball screen and he was so good at getting away from it that Jamal Murray just could not get free and the two man game became a one man game. They have great defenders, you know, Divincenzo. They've got Dasunmu who might be interesting, but they don't have a guy that I think they Jamal cannot shake free of. And he's better than ever, especially at getting free from defender. So I think it's a huge difference between 24 and 26.
- [57:46]
Chris Ryan
Well, they'll try Jaden on him. Jaden McDaniels.
- [57:48]
Zach Lowe
Who?
- [57:48]
Chris Ryan
Former Nugget Jaden McDaniels. How would you grade that out for Jamal Murray?
- [57:54]
Adam Mares
It requires an important resource for Minnesota to put him on Jamal Murray. And some of this is you're taking some rim protection and athleticism him away from the basket and putting on a sold job.
- [58:03]
Chris Ryan
Good point.
- [58:03]
Adam Mares
And the two man game is versatile enough that you can always take advantage of that. It's not. We just have to run pick and roll. You could say, okay, let's take him out of the equation and attack elsewhere. So I don't think that's a viable strategy for like four quarters for Minnesota. It might be something that they go to a little bit here and there, but they had him in 24. That was an option to him and it worked in parts. They still have that option. They just have one fewer option.
- [58:24]
Zach Lowe
And Nikhil Alexander Walker, who's been unbelievable in Atlanta.
- [58:28]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, he's a superstar, most improved player for sure. I just think this is so interesting because Minnesota fancies itself an elite defensive team. I think they're only eighth defensively. But they have Gobert who's always in
- [58:39]
Zach Lowe
the defense player of the year conversation
- [58:41]
Chris Ryan
actually put him second team all defense this year.
- [58:43]
Zach Lowe
I thought he slipped a little bit.
- [58:45]
Chris Ryan
And now they have this immense challenge of like this is the best offense
- [58:49]
Zach Lowe
in the NBA by a lot.
- [58:50]
Chris Ryan
It's not close. They're one of the best offenses in the history of the NBA by any measure. They're one of the 15, 16 best offensive teams ever.
- [58:59]
Zach Lowe
These Denver Nuggets.
- [59:00]
Chris Ryan
How do we slow them down? And I Think it's so interesting. Like if you watch and none of
- [59:05]
Zach Lowe
you will be surprised, I spent today in my hotel room watching clips of
- [59:08]
Chris Ryan
Wolves Nuggets because that's just how much
- [59:10]
Zach Lowe
of a loser I am.
- [59:12]
Chris Ryan
They're going to try so many different strategies against that two man game. Sometimes they'll just let Jamal Murray drive and be like, we're not even. We're not leaving Jokic at all. Like, you don't have the option to even pass this dude the ball because he's too good. And every floater he shoots just sits on the rim like it's like the ball is made of molasses or something and drips through. We're not even letting go. And then Jamal Murray goes to the rim and all of a sudden they're swarming him and making Christian Brown shoot or Aaron Gordon shoot. I think the Nuggets are equipped to counter that strategy in a lot of different ways. And what the Wolves used to do, as you all probably remember, is not put Gobert on Jokic. They would put Gobert on Aaron Gordon and just say, roam around the rim and block shots. Cat, you're pretty damn big and bulky. You're going to guard Jokic. Cat's not here anymore. I don't think Randle can guard Jokic at all. I definitely don't think Nasri can guard Jokic. And so they've mostly stuck Gobert on him. And I think that just generally favors
- [60:10]
Zach Lowe
the Nuggets, just that gives them a
- [60:12]
Chris Ryan
little bit more optionality.
- [60:14]
Adam Mares
Nikola Jokic figures people out. This is one of the most fun things about watching him and watching his arc. I don't know if there's a single player he has played or matched up against more in the NBA than Rudy Gobert. I would bet that's the number one player. Yeah, just through Utah, now Minnesota, and then all the playoff series. I just think he has him figured out to the degree that it's not that Gobert doesn't make his life hard, it's just that Jokic knows exactly what kind of hard shot he's going to be able to get off of him every time. So you are right that Gobert's biggest impact in my opinion in a series against Denver is actually not on Jokic. But it's in the staggered minutes to try to put pressure on Denver's backup centers and then as a, as a roamer. But Aaron Gordon over the last two years has made himself into. And not just a good, but a consistently elite three point shooter.
- [60:59]
Chris Ryan
Like it's Absolutely unbelievable.
- [61:00]
Adam Mares
I cannot imagine the Timberwolves making the decision to put Gobert on Aaron Gordon in 2026.
- [61:05]
Chris Ryan
If you go back, remember the Christmas game? Did Yokich have 50 in the Christmas game?
- [61:09]
Adam Mares
It was, it was something crazy. I don't remember what the number 56, right? 56 and 14 and 11.
- [61:13]
Chris Ryan
If you go back, if 18 and
- [61:15]
Adam Mares
nighttime undersold it, you can't even make
- [61:17]
Chris Ryan
up YIC stat wise in that game. If you go back and watch that game at the end of the game and in overtime, the Wolves did something weird, which is they were like, we're going to put Jaden McDaniels on Jokic and put Gobert somewhere else so he can block shots. And we're just going to have Jaden McDaniels fight for his life against this guy and elbow him and get up into his body and fight, confront him. And like you have remarked about this, a lot more and more teams are doing this with Jokic is just putting smaller guys on him and basically being like, just beat the hell out of him and see what the reps will do and we'll keep our shop locker back there. I just don't think, I think Jokic figures that out in it. Remember the Rui Hachimura adjustment?
- [61:57]
Adam Mares
The Rui adjustment.
- [62:00]
Chris Ryan
Wow, the Lakers really found something. Rui Hachimura on yic. I wonder if YIC will ever be able to fix figure that one out.
- [62:07]
Guest Analyst
Can I put you on the spot and ask you to please basically for, you know, switch sides of the courtroom, make the case for Minnesota in this series?
- [62:15]
Adam Mares
I think the case is largely, you know, I always say that to win a championship, a team has to check three boxes. One of them is talent. You just have to be talented enough. Another one is you have to become connected. Basketball is a game of connection. Denver is really good at this. And when they get to the playoffs and they make runs, they're just playing like a hive mind team. But the third box and you can sink if you're deficient in this category, in my opinion is toughness just raw toughness. And I think Denver, even in 2024 was more talented and probably as or more connected than Minnesota. But they were so tough. They were physical with Jamal. They knew they could wear him down. They were physical with Jokic and knew that it could just disrupt him and make him frustrated. And we're just going to muck up the game. And I thought Denver wasn't able to handle that. I mean, they were close. It went to game seven. They had A lead. But they. That's why they won. They out tough Denver. I don't think. I think Denver has grown from that experience and I just think that gap is, is smaller. It might be that Denver's up for the challenge from a toughness standpoint, but I don't think Jamal in this state can be physically bullied. The way that they tried to bully them in that series. And then you add the depth. I think part of this also, if you remember in that game seven in 2024, Denver didn't see sub out. They played their guys through the last like 18 minutes just thinking, hold on, just try to get this. And it wore them down. And part of the reason was they didn't have the depth that they have this year.
- [63:33]
Chris Ryan
I think the case for Minnesota is just if Anthony Edwards is neck and neck with Jokic as the best player in the series, Minnesota will be a problem. Anthony Edwards has been dealing with some knee stuff. He's been ill. But you know that he's going to test their pick and roll coverage, right? Like YIC will blitz them sometimes and Del Testman is sort of like, can you pass the ball around? He'll, I mean, he'll hunt some smaller guards on Denver, which we might have someone ask about that and try to get mismatches that way. And Denver, it's been the weirdest thing with Denver their first 20 games this year. I couldn't believe how good they were defensively and they were good in zone, they were good in man. They were good at different kinds of man coverage. Like they, they walked into the season like the playoffs can start right now.
- [64:15]
Zach Lowe
We're ready.
- [64:15]
Chris Ryan
And then I think the injuries, malaise, whatever, they kind of let go on the rope on defense a little bit. If that defense is still in there somewhere. This is a 60 plus win team and they can absolutely go through Minnesota, San Antonio and Oklahoma City like they are that good offensively that, that now they'll have to do it in the last two rounds if they beat Minnesota without home court. Fine toughness, right? Like this is a tough, experienced team. But if that defense is still in here somewhere, like I bet that would have netted out as like they're the 11th or 12th in the league defensively.
- [64:49]
Adam Mares
Right.
- [64:49]
Chris Ryan
If they had kept playing with that level of focus and intensity, 11th on defense and first by a lot in offense, you can win the championship for sure.
- [64:57]
Adam Mares
Well, I think this is an interesting point in this one way. I think the reason Denver is not good in this Jokic era in the regular season Defensively is that it takes an enormous amount of energy to defend in today's NBA and the Nikola Jokic is not athletic enough and doesn't have the energy reserves given his offensive responsibility to play at that level. But they've traditionally been very good defensively in the clutch. As if you say, okay, we know we have eight good minutes of defense in us in the regular season and in the playoffs, that number goes up. I still think that's going to happen this year. I think that Denver will be able to defend, but in previous years, Denver just loves playing seven game series. They love to do it, like to pencil them in for two a year. I don't think teams are going to win championships in this era until something changes physically. If you have multiple seven game series,
- [65:44]
Guest Analyst
especially back to back, this is the darkest timeline of the route of the bracket that they chose. Right.
- [65:48]
Adam Mares
You have to find a way, in my opinion, you have to find a way to get at least one or two series wrapped up in five games. Because if you're going six, seven, six, seven every single time. Six, seven every single time. Sorry, it's out.
- [66:01]
Chris Ryan
It's out now. By the way, my daughter, who's 11, was that uncool?
- [66:05]
Zach Lowe
You're. Well, you're definitely uncool.
- [66:06]
Chris Ryan
I'm uncool. It's out now. Now 67's out.
- [66:10]
Adam Mares
We've moved on, thank God. But you know what?
- [66:13]
Chris Ryan
You are, you're cringe. My daughter would say you are cringe. Dad, you're being cringe.
- [66:18]
Adam Mares
I thought I slayed.
- [66:20]
Chris Ryan
No. And I tell my daughter, I'm 48 years old and you're going to middle school next year. It's only getting worse. I'm leaning in more and more to the dad jokes and the whole thing.
- [66:29]
Zach Lowe
Anyway, we were talking about something.
- [66:30]
Adam Mares
I just say you can't go seven, seven or six games over and over again. Denver's going to have to get it done in five. I can't keep going.
- [66:38]
Guest Analyst
I guess if I was the Wolves, I would probably say nobody saw our best team this year. Right. And that.
- [66:43]
Adam Mares
Including them though.
- [66:44]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [66:44]
Adam Mares
And it's like, it's difficult just to say, you know what we are the team we were.
- [66:47]
Guest Analyst
We might not just, we might just not have that best team.
- [66:50]
Chris Ryan
But the vibe, the vibe there has gone like this so many times. Like every four game winning streak is like, wolves are back.
- [66:57]
Zach Lowe
This is the Wolves.
- [66:57]
Chris Ryan
And then something happens and there's like a coach player thing or a player.
- [67:01]
Zach Lowe
It's just.
- [67:02]
Chris Ryan
And if that happens enough, it's like maybe it's just not going to happen this year. And then you throw in some health issues that they've had recently. It's starting to feel like maybe it's just not going to happen.
- [67:11]
Zach Lowe
And they're sixth and they're they have
- [67:13]
Chris Ryan
a brutal, a brutal route.
- [67:16]
Guest Analyst
The only reason I really want the Wolves to advance not only past Denver but San Antonio is I want to see Chris Finch vs. Shea in the Western Conference files.
- [67:25]
Chris Ryan
Chris Finch Has Adelman had an OKC moment yet this year?
- [67:28]
Adam Mares
I don't think he has. I'm trying to think if he's had a moment.
- [67:31]
Chris Ryan
You know what I'm talking about where a coach every two weeks,
- [67:37]
Adam Mares
I don't know if he's had one that like, like to that degree where he just called it out, but he has had a couple meltdowns I would say.
- [67:43]
Chris Ryan
Okay, do you want to make picks? Are you comfortable yet making a pick?
- [67:48]
Adam Mares
Let's do it.
- [67:49]
Chris Ryan
I am going to pick Nuggets and.
- [67:57]
Adam Mares
So Nuggets and six. Just real quick. Why like it's you think the offense is not going to be slowed down?
- [68:02]
Chris Ryan
I just said what I just said what I said about Minnesota, right. Like it's sometimes it's like it's not
- [68:05]
Zach Lowe
going to all click together.
- [68:07]
Chris Ryan
The ant in and out of the lineup stuff makes me nervous and I just think this offense is unstoppable if like Aaron Gordon has to play and play well. And as you pointed out, he's an unbelievable three point shooter. Now Cam Johnson's last six weeks have been incredibly encouraging and between him and Tim Hardaway Jr. And Bruce Brown has shot it well from three, I think they just have enough tools to put out the right kind of lineups. So the one thing I was going to ask you about though is like what if anything do we know about Peyton Watson because he's a really important part of their team. He's become a good corner three point shooter which is massive for them. He's guarded ant a lot and I can tell you like the Nuggets people I know are being a little a little non communicative about Peyton Watson's potential for playing in this series.
- [68:50]
Adam Mares
It's been the same. I've heard the same and I think my read on it is that I'm not sure they know for certain that he is going to be able to go or not. So we'll have to wait and see. Him and Spencer Jones both by Spencer Jones a heck of a defender. Man. He's plays hard.
- [69:03]
Zach Lowe
Wow.
- [69:04]
Chris Ryan
That was for Spencer Jones.
- [69:08]
Adam Mares
And if you look at the matchups, Anthony Edwards is a big bodied guy. You kind of need some, some strength to battle him. Julius Randall, Spencer Jones might draw that assignment as well. So I think both of those guys are important. Let me answer your question though, the pick with this anecdote. When Bruce Brown was In Denver in 2023, he talked about the LA series. I think he actually came on our show and talked about this. He said, I don't know why, but everybody was so locked in for that series. There was something going on. And of course the guys that had been on the team remember the bubble, the 20, 20, 20. And it felt like Denver let that one go. And I think Denver was dialed in for that Lakers series in a way that they were not for other series because there was history, there was some bad blood and they knew that there were a lot of stakes. Denver, I know that game seven from 2024 is still in their memory. And I think that this will be a series that has Denver's attention. I'm actually glad in many ways that they drew this route and drew Minnesota first because although it might be tough, I think we'll get the best version of Denver in a round one that we've gotten recently. And so I'm going to go with Nuggets in five, five,
- [70:10]
Chris Ryan
Denver in six, Wolves in four.
- [70:13]
Guest Analyst
I'm not that crazy. No, I want to get out of here tonight.
- [70:18]
Chris Ryan
Okay, we're going to do three fun Denver topics, two of which are your
- [70:22]
Zach Lowe
idea, one of which is my idea.
- [70:23]
Chris Ryan
I talked, I was on Bill's pod last night and I talked about Jokic and how Jokic is a three time mvp. And if you look at all the players who have won three or more MVPs, the only one with one or fewer rings is Moses Malone, who has one. And what would it mean for Jokic in his legacy? Everyone's favorite word to go through this gauntlet and get a second ring on top of three MVPs. A second finals MVP.
- [70:49]
Zach Lowe
Because here's the thing, like Jokic is
- [70:54]
Chris Ryan
already in the argument for best offensive
- [70:56]
Zach Lowe
player of all time, period.
- [70:58]
Chris Ryan
Like, that's how good he is. I actually saw Dune.
- [71:05]
Zach Lowe
I know what that's from.
- [71:08]
Chris Ryan
And I think, like, this is gonna sound heretical for somebody my age. I think at the end of his career, if not already, he's gonna be statistically and just like eye test, like better than Larry Bird, better than Magic Johnson. But fans and the pundits who yell on TV will just not be able to get there. If he has one championship. And I said that and a couple of front office people from other teams who really like Jokic and our Eastern Conference team so they don't have to face him very often texted me and said, I get what you're saying, but Jerry west had one ring, KG had one ring, Dirk had one ring. I think Jokic is already a tier above all of those guys. But his point was like one ring in Denver in a mid market, like it's not a glamour market team that steals free agents and is worth. You know what I mean? It's not the Lakers. Yeah, we know what you mean. You're not clearing three max cap slots and getting LeBron and Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. That's not how it works. Is worth is got a lovely city.
- [72:12]
Zach Lowe
Just chill out.
- [72:14]
Chris Ryan
He's worth more than like a Lakers ring or whatever. That's interesting. And I really do believe 2021 is the Bucks, 2022 is the Warriors. I think one of those rings belongs to either the Nuggets or the Clippers if they're healthy. But we are where we are. And I do think like Jokic should be in those conversations probably already. And it's just like, you know, the talk shows are just not going to accept that if he has one championship. I don't think.
- [72:44]
Guest Analyst
Don't you think also like his legacy, quote unquote, should have all the more weight given his trajectory to the league? I mean, you broke it down coming out here about this second round pick who was kind of like this anomaly when we first came into the league. And then you essentially build an offensive like an entire NBA ecosystem around his skill level. I mean, his achievement here in some ways is singular in a way that a lot of like lottery guys who were always nailed on from high school were always going to be all NBA talents. Like to me it's like almost more impressive that he even has one ring.
- [73:18]
Adam Mares
It's certainly part of the storytelling. I think about him, you know, I think he's probably a top three or four most influential player of the last 25 years. I think Steph Curry is probably number one. James Harden's up there. But when you look at to your point, he's reinvented the way we think about basketball. Andre Drummond was doing dribble handoffs, you know, in the years after, like he changed the way of what you thought was possible. If to answer your question though, about his legacy, I do think you have to win. And I actually think it's fair to say that you have to win. And it is different to your point in Los Angeles or, you know, one of these markets than it is in Denver. It's harder to go here. But I still think that at the end of the day, there's great players that have these great skills, and the entire point of the sport is can you be great in the right moments? And Nikola is great all the time. I mean, he really is. You can count his bad games on your, you know, on your fingers, especially playoff games. You really.
- [74:10]
Chris Ryan
He plays all the time when he's healthy. He got injured and everyone's like, I don't even know what this is like.
- [74:15]
Zach Lowe
Nicole Jokic is injured.
- [74:16]
Chris Ryan
How did this happen? He's indestructible, and he plays well and hard.
- [74:20]
Adam Mares
I think he's one of the best passers of all time. Full stop. You know, one of the best passers.
- [74:24]
Chris Ryan
He might be. No, no, he might. He might be the best pass of all time.
- [74:28]
Adam Mares
And what's funny is I think he's probably more dominant as a floater zone shooter than he is as a passer. I think he's by far the best floater zone shooter of all time. It's not statistically even close.
- [74:37]
Chris Ryan
I don't understand. Are they doctoring the ball here? But it travels on the road, too. It just hits the rim and it sits up there like, oh, this is cool. Now I'm gonna fall. I mean, it's unbelievable.
- [74:48]
Adam Mares
And then he gets off of his feet as fast as. Anyway, tips the ball into a rebound as well as anyone. He has like four or five skills that he's probably top three or four all time in the NBA at. But still, it comes down to what you do in the few moments where you're the only thing that matters. It's a team game. And in the playoffs, there's just these high leverage moments where you have to deliver. And he consistently has. I believe the team is good enough to put him in position to deliver those moments for us this playoffs. And I do think you have to win a couple more for him to get there, and I hope and believe he will.
- [75:20]
Guest Analyst
It's also amazing that, I mean, Joker has never held the team hostage and been like, well, if things don't change around here, I'm going to have to go look elsewhere for stuff. And it's like, that is also what a lot of the players that were.
- [75:31]
Chris Ryan
And while people were screaming like, is he ever going to play with an All Star? Is it ever going to happen? The Denver, like, the Nuggets failed to build around him. Calvin Booth took all these kids who aren't ready. Well, now the kids are ready. Like the kids are playing well.
- [75:43]
Guest Analyst
And Michael Malone ironically coaching kids now.
- [75:46]
Chris Ryan
So congrats to Michael Malone. You guys might have heard. It did not. It did not end well here. But I told Michael this, like, you want a championship, no one can ever take that away from you. You're a championship NBA coach.
- [76:01]
Zach Lowe
Like, no matter what people think of whatever it is, like, you want a title.
- [76:06]
Chris Ryan
The Spurs. The Nuggets are what, three and one against the spurs this year? The Wolves or the Spurs?
- [76:11]
Adam Mares
Yes, three and one. They won one. Three in a row.
- [76:13]
Chris Ryan
I'm just saying, to wrap up, to put a ball on this, they can actually do it. They could beat these three teams in a row. They almost beat the Thunder last year with Michael Porter. Now it's last year's Thunder first. First time through. Nerves, inexperience, all that. But Michael Porter Jr. Had one arm and Aaron Gordon had one leg. And it went to seven games. Like they actually can do it. Playoffs haven't even started yet. I'm just saying the path is there and the historical impact would be huge. This was your idea. Team of the decade for the 2020s is still in play. And you pointed out 80s is Lakers.
- [76:49]
Zach Lowe
Celtics. Sorry, Bill.
- [76:50]
Chris Ryan
Second place, 90s is Bulls. 2000s is between the Lakers and the Spurs. I think it's the Lakers. I think it's still.
- [76:57]
Adam Mares
The Lakers are like two teams.
- [77:00]
Chris Ryan
The Lakers won four titles.
- [77:02]
Adam Mares
Yeah.
- [77:03]
Chris Ryan
Spurs won three.
- [77:04]
Adam Mares
Yeah.
- [77:04]
Chris Ryan
All right, we'll just call it a tie.
- [77:05]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Okay.
- [77:07]
Chris Ryan
2010s.
- [77:08]
Guest Analyst
You could argue for sports arguments, that's just a tie.
- [77:11]
Chris Ryan
2010s. You could debate Miami with LeBron or Gold. I think it's Golden State. I think it's Golden State. I think it's Golden State for the way Curry revolutionized the game and just how 73 wins they didn't win. And then the Durant team, that was unfair and unbeatable. 2020, here's what we got. Oklahoma City has one championship and only. Only. Only one other playoff series win.
- [77:36]
Guest Analyst
Right.
- [77:37]
Chris Ryan
So far in the 2020. So that is about to change. I think right now the front runner is the Celtics. Let me just. Can I just make the case? One ring, one ring, one finals loss, two conference finals losses. See, there's that mid. There's that mid. You guys don't know.
- [78:02]
Guest Analyst
It's old school basketball. You know, we don't have any of this altitude with the rings.
- [78:06]
Chris Ryan
Wait till the Chicago Bulls finally rebuild. And then the east will Be back. Golden State, one championship. Have only won two other series. No Denver, one championship, one conference finals loss, three second round losses. Milwaukee, one championship, two second round losses. That's over. And the Lakers, one championship, one conference finals loss. I think right now, Boston, Denver and Oklahoma City are both one championship away from taking the team of the decade lead. What would you say to that?
- [78:42]
Adam Mares
And I think San Antonio is maybe chasing this late.
- [78:45]
Guest Analyst
They look like five years.
- [78:47]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, they got way to go years,
- [78:48]
Adam Mares
but they do have a lot of ground to make up. I think Oklahoma City is the favorite at this moment. You would just look at it and say they have the momentum. And I think Boston, because the crowd is right. I'm sorry, but they have. The Eastern Conference is a little bit simpler. They have a path there. They have an inside track. But this year is an opportunity for Denver. I don't know how many opportunities they get. This is by my count the third real championship opportunity Denver has had. I think last year was probably not. It was like a half open door,
- [79:15]
Chris Ryan
23, 24 in this and this.
- [79:17]
Adam Mares
And if you're able to get this one, then I just think this one might be the one that swings it. Boston, Oklahoma City and Denver all have a real shot at it. And if you take this one, I think you have a great shot at team of the decade, which is pretty cool.
- [79:28]
Chris Ryan
Philly, you know, Edgecombe's really good. Like the Eastern Conference is not very good. It's embiid. Could get healthy.
- [79:34]
Guest Analyst
I think Nick Nurse is petitioning the league to see if we can play Vijay 51 minutes a game next year. So we're excited about that.
- [79:41]
Chris Ryan
Well, I mean, speaking of conference biases, the team your team is about to play in the first round is like the most excited about expansion because they have a chance to move to the East. And you better believe I think they should have to play Memphis in a seven game series. Winner moves to the Eastern Conference. All right. Last Adam idea, by the way.
- [80:02]
Guest Analyst
I would say OKC for this decade. Not only for the title and the and the other like achievement and playoffs, but the profound impact that they've had on the league both in terms of everyone hating them. Team building philosophy. I like, I definitely do not enjoy it. And also just the shade I think might wind up being the most consequential deal.
- [80:21]
Chris Ryan
It's fair. I did not consider front office acumen in my hastily rendered rankings. Okay, this is Adam's idea and I don't know well enough to know, so I'm going to defer to you and
- [80:33]
Zach Lowe
if you have any opinions, you.
- [80:35]
Chris Ryan
You posited. Is Jokic already the greatest athlete in the history of Colorado professional sports? And you nominated. You nominated.
- [80:46]
Adam Mares
Well, I just. This was a text message. This is not a peaceful nomination here.
- [80:51]
Chris Ryan
You can't back out.
- [80:52]
Adam Mares
All right, let's work through this.
- [80:54]
Chris Ryan
Here are the names you nominated. Joe Sakic. Patrick Waugh. So two hockey players.
- [81:02]
Zach Lowe
The abs are really good again, right?
- [81:03]
Adam Mares
The abs. The abs are indeed very good.
- [81:06]
Chris Ryan
And the biggest one, John Elway. Yeah.
- [81:09]
Adam Mares
Man, that is such a subtle John Elway cheer. I expected a lot more from.
- [81:14]
Chris Ryan
These people are too young. They don't know what happened. Like, they don't remember.
- [81:17]
Zach Lowe
True.
- [81:17]
Adam Mares
You know, it might be true.
- [81:21]
Chris Ryan
So. So here's. Here's my. Here's my.
- [81:23]
Guest Analyst
There are no Rockies on this list.
- [81:25]
Chris Ryan
There are no Rockies. Andres Galarraga.
- [81:30]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [81:31]
Guest Analyst
The cat.
- [81:32]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. Dante Bichette.
- [81:33]
Adam Mares
I think if we're having this conversation, it's a little different. This is. This is a different conversation.
- [81:37]
Chris Ryan
I don't want to talk about baseball. The Mets are 7 and 9. They're playing the Dodgers in Los Angeles for the next three games.
- [81:42]
Zach Lowe
It's all going to horribly.
- [81:43]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, I know. I just said you're 7 and 9. Thanks for coming out.
- [81:51]
Guest Analyst
Here's in Mets corner. Thanks to new Arrow.
- [81:53]
Chris Ryan
Here comes Sean for 45 minutes on Mets corner.
- [81:59]
Adam Mares
Here's the thing. John Elway, it's hard to. To, like, overtake him for what he means to the city because he was both, like, the first huge athlete to the. To this degree, and he came around at the exact, you know, most important time. I always say New Denver changed from old Denver in 1995 because you had Coors Field arrived. So the new ballpark changed the entire city. You had the Avalanche arrive, and then the Broncos became a juggernaut that next year and then won two Super Bowls in 96, 97. So that it was. That he was the first. He was huge. And he came around at the exact moment when Denver was becoming. Was graduating into a major American city. And so he kind of has this, like, you know, he's the first guy. He's a legend. But if. I think if you just put these things in a vacuum, Nikola Jokic is unbelievably dominant at basketball. Unbelievably dominant. I mean, rebounds and assist leader this year is like. It's kind of laughable. But the truth is, he's. He's the best at, like, eight or nine different skills in the NBA. And just having him on the court, you feel like you're going to win any single possession or any single, any single moment. The championships do matter here because you, some of the guys you listed have multiple but I think if we just talking about the most dominant athlete I've ever seen with my eyes and this by the way includes non Denver athletes. But the most dominant athlete I watched o I grew up to away I felt like we were never going to lose when we had him. The yogic experience is different. I just feel like he can do anything. There's never a moment where I feel like he can't wiggle out of whatever defensive coverage you put him in. He is a near perfect basketball player, offensive basketball player. And to me, I think it is, I think it is him. I think he's the goat of Denver.
- [83:38]
Guest Analyst
The thing that blows my mind about him every time is somebody who has had James Harden on his team is the experience of never having to wonder is he going to show up tonight? Like, that is crazy. And there's no stat for that. There's no, it's a rarity. But you're just like, oh my God, like this guy's just going to get 30 and 20 tonight. We know that. And it's like I've never really had anybody in, in my sports fandom like that.
- [84:03]
Chris Ryan
I just want to remind everybody that Chris's favorite NBA team took Markel Fulton,
- [84:07]
Zach Lowe
Ben Simmons with back to back number one overall pitch.
- [84:10]
Guest Analyst
Had a lot of games.
- [84:12]
Chris Ryan
It's been a rough. There was a, a, a Twitter scandal.
- [84:16]
Guest Analyst
Yeah.
- [84:17]
Chris Ryan
A shirt collar thing. Nothing to do with that rough. Just give him some grace on, on all things
- [84:25]
Zach Lowe
Trust.
- [84:25]
Chris Ryan
Keep trusting.
- [84:26]
Guest Analyst
We're still trusting.
- [84:26]
Adam Mares
Keep trusting.
- [84:27]
Guest Analyst
This was all part of the plan to get back to the second round.
- [84:31]
Chris Ryan
Look as an outsider looking in and we'll wrap this up now to me, like, it's just no contest. Like Jokic is, is like the best
- [84:39]
Zach Lowe
athlete in the history of Colorado professional sports.
- [84:41]
Chris Ryan
Like, I don't, I can't sit here and tell you, like, where does Elway rank in the greatest quarterbacks of all time? I think I know enough to know it's not like where Jokic ranks in the greatest players of all time. And the hockey guys, I just don't know anything about. But enough about I know who they are and I know what they did and WA was unbelievable.
- [84:58]
Zach Lowe
In particular, can I ask who did
- [84:59]
Guest Analyst
he replace as the iconic nugget?
- [85:02]
Adam Mares
Jokic?
- [85:04]
Guest Analyst
You think it was mellow.
- [85:05]
Adam Mares
So this is what's interesting about this. Not really mellow because of the bad terms or something. It could Be mellow if we just talk about. Great. What's interesting to me, Alex English is the one that has all the records, games, plays, points, everything else. Yeah, give it up for Alex English. But when I talk to the old timers, when I talk to the old timers that were around, David Thompson is the guy they always. Every old timer has a firsthand story of something David Thompson did at a game they were watching. So it might be him, but he's just so old that it's all, like, passed down through word of mouth.
- [85:35]
Chris Ryan
Shout out to the high school student in here somewhere who's wearing an Alex English jersey because her dad, quote, makes me listen to your podcast on car rides to school. I said, let's. Let's try to reframe that one.
- [85:47]
Adam Mares
Okay.
- [85:48]
Chris Ryan
Let's try to reframe that one. I don't think it's close. Okay, well, let's bring out someone who can talk a little bit about. Well, first of all, Adam. Adam, thank you. Adam Morris, of course.
- [85:59]
Guest Analyst
Thanks.
- [86:01]
Chris Ryan
You all know DNVR Sports. You know where to find him. Nobody covers a team anywhere better than Adam covers the Nuggets.
- [86:14]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to watch basketball, think about basketball, talk about basketball. But even dream jobs have the stuff that nobody dreamed about. The busy work that gets in the way of the actual work. ServiceNow's AI specialists tackle that work. Requests handled, cases closed, the whole thing done. So you have more time for the work you actually want to do. For me, that's breaking down SGA film whenever I want and then talking about it into a microphone. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit ServiceNow.com
- [86:44]
Chris Ryan
all right, let's bring out someone who has firsthand experience actually catching passes from Nikola jokic and making shots. 6 Man of the year candidate already beloved Denver Nugget, Tim Haray Jr. Look at that. How good is this guy Ben, by the way? Just no, no hesitation. They're going up. They're going up, going up. So, first year in Denver.
- [87:27]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [87:27]
Chris Ryan
Adam was telling me. Apparently Aaron Gordon did an interview recently where he talked about his recruitment of you. Did you guys see this? I did not see this. He described it as a phone call in which you asked him, how's Denver? He said, it's all right. And you were like, cool, I think I'll sign there. Is that really about what happened?
- [87:46]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah,
- [87:49]
Chris Ryan
yeah.
- [87:49]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I said, bet. All right, cool. Sounds good.
- [87:53]
Chris Ryan
What other options were you weighing? And did you know, like, was. Did you have a relationship with a coach or a player on this team that you could also call on to be like, hey, what's it going to be like? What's my role going to be like? What else?
- [88:03]
Guest Analyst
Deeper than I. Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:05]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I think for the most part, I mean, it has some options, but with the recruiting of Jared Dudley and JJ Berea, their assistant coaches on the staff, just being familiar with them. I was with Duds when we went to the finals that year against Boston in Dallas, and I was teammates with JJ Berea when I first got to Dallas after getting traded from New York.
- [88:31]
Chris Ryan
I forgot about that. You played with him?
- [88:33]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, I traded with him, so. Played with them over there. So, yeah, it kind of made my decision a little bit more easier. And then AG's conversation was icing on the cake.
- [88:44]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. Pretty simple.
- [88:45]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [88:46]
Chris Ryan
How 82 games later, how has it been different than you thought it would be? Better than you thought it would be? Like, is there anything that surprised you about this team, this city, anything like that?
- [88:56]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean, I thought it would be kind of colder.
- [88:59]
Guest Analyst
Sports shorts. Yeah.
- [89:02]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean, no, but all seriousness, I mean, I mean, it's everything I dreamt of, to be honest with you. Playing with a guy like Yoke, playing with a guy like Maul Ag, I mean, I go down the list, and then the franchise, bringing back Bruce, which is great, my running mate on the back court, and then you just got these young guys emerging, like Payton Watson, and, you know, Julian Strother having a game like he did yesterday, showing that he's still here, still capable of making plays. And Big Val, what can you say about Big Val? Love that guy. So, you know, just being that second unit with those guys, we have great chemistry. And I going on. On.
- [89:52]
Chris Ryan
Has. Has played, has played. Playing with Jokic, been as fun as it looked? More fun than it looked?
- [89:57]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Oh, yeah, for the most part, because you get open looks. But in order. I mean, you get open looks, but you have to do your job once you get the ball, you know, if you make shots, it makes his job a lot easier. And that's why I try to prioritize to the best of my abilities while I'm out there on the floor with him.
- [90:15]
Chris Ryan
Have you caught any, like, touchdown pass outlets from him? I bet you have.
- [90:18]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, I have. And threw a couple lobs, which I'm surprised that I caught. But you're so wide open that you have no choice but to catch him.
- [90:26]
Chris Ryan
Have you had any passes where you were surprised that the ball was suddenly zipping towards your head?
- [90:32]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah. I got hit in the chin a couple of times, but I did shoot it. So that's all that mattered.
- [90:39]
Guest Analyst
For the ups and downs that you guys. Not even ups and downs, but for the season that you had, were you surprised that you ended as strongly as you did, or was it kind of like you want to be playing your best basketball at this time of year?
- [90:50]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, I mean. I mean, I was surprised. I'm surprised that it happened to that many people on our team.
- [90:56]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [90:58]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean, especially this. Basically, the whole starting five. So just to have the guys that we have that, like I said, the vets that came in this summer, and then us working with the young guys that were already here, that were established, that understood what the coaches wanted from them, it was an easy transition. And for the most part, with that, from December to that January, that stretch when no one was really playing or dressing out, yeah, I'm happy we kept the ship afloat.
- [91:36]
Chris Ryan
Were you surprised that you. I think you were, like, 10 and 7 without Jokic or something? It wasn't just Jokic.
- [91:41]
Zach Lowe
It was.
- [91:41]
Chris Ryan
Christian was out. Aaron was out on jv, got hurt the first game.
- [91:44]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Just say everybody.
- [91:47]
Chris Ryan
I heard actually four to six weeks became a running joke within the team. People are like, four to six weeks? Four to six weeks. Were you surprised that you kept it afloat?
- [91:54]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Like, for the most part, I would say I wasn't really surprised, but I was surprised with the way we did it with the different lineups, different change in starting lineups, and with coach just being a genius that he is with his staff and making sure that we're in positions, you know, to win ball games. So it was nuts. Especially that game in Philly when no one really played.
- [92:26]
Chris Ryan
Oh, he's a six. He's a Sixers fan.
- [92:29]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Oh, sorry, sorry.
- [92:31]
Chris Ryan
That was a close game, right? Was that a close game? I don't remember that.
- [92:35]
Guest Analyst
Yeah, that was a close game, but it was like. It was literally like. That was one of the first times I've had to go on, like, basketball reference and be like, I don't know who this guy is, like, and he's. He's killing us.
- [92:46]
Chris Ryan
I was at the Toronto game on December 31st or 30th. It was the first game without jokes.
- [92:51]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
That's when Val got hurt.
- [92:52]
Chris Ryan
Val got hurt in the second quarter, and everyone's like, are you kidding me? Another guy got hurt, and you guys found a way to win. Do you remember how that game ended?
- [92:59]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah. Was I in front of Brandon Ingram when he shot that turnaround?
- [93:04]
Chris Ryan
I should. I Should know that, but I don't. But Brandon Ingram made like a half court shot almost.
- [93:08]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
It was like a turnaround fade away, like what Bron did in D.C. when he was playing with the Cavs in front of their bench. But he was like. But BI was like a couple seconds late or something.
- [93:19]
Chris Ryan
It was a tiny. It looked good. And I was actually sitting. I mean, yeah, I was sitting with some Raptors officials, and they were like going insane because they thought it was good. Yeah, I thought it was good, and then it wasn't good. And that was. I mean, DA is a pretty even. David Adelman is a pretty even heel guy. He was really pumped after that game, and I could tell that he actually firmly believed. I talked to him a little bit after that. That he firmly believed, like, we're actually going to be all right. Like, we're going to tough out some of these wins by taking care of the ball, rebounding, just, like, scraping out some wins. And he was right.
- [93:51]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, he was. He was absolutely right. And like I said, he's being a genius. I mean, just like I said, putting guys in position to be successful and us playing off of him, really be honest with you. His. He's just. He's just a mean guy. Sometimes it just rubs off on us. He gets into us really bad in halftime. So we gotta go out there and.
- [94:15]
Chris Ryan
Okay, all right.
- [94:15]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Show up for my guy. He looks nice on the court, but it's not.
- [94:21]
Chris Ryan
Well, he's the son of a coach. He's the son of a coach. So, you know, you got.
- [94:24]
Zach Lowe
You got.
- [94:25]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [94:27]
Chris Ryan
So take us inside. Game 82. You guys all know the stakes. You guys know that if you lose, you can go down to the fourth seed. What does that bring with it? If we win, we're going to be the third seed. Minnesota. There's a lot of history there. Did you guys like. And obviously a lot of the key players didn't play, but did you all, like, was there a. How does the decision get made that these guys are going to sit, but we also don't care if we win the game? Like, what is that conversation?
- [94:51]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Like, I mean, knowing DA I mean, he wants to win every single game. And he said that when guys sat out when we played OKC at home, and he said that against the spurs in San Antonio. So whoever steps out there on the floor, you know, they have to have the utmost confidence in themselves and in the team's success. So for the most part, just having those guys go out there and compete the way they did, it rubs off on the other guys that we're watching. And we need to take that momentum into the post season.
- [95:28]
Chris Ryan
And you legit, like, whoever we play, we play. Like, there's no toying with the game.
- [95:32]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
No, not at all. I mean, you're here for a reason. You're here for a reason, so. And there is a system, I would say, especially going out there playing with the big guy.
- [95:42]
Guest Analyst
Well, you, historically, you kill Minnesota, like, even going back to college. Right. Like, don't you. Like, didn't you have, like, crazy games with Michigan?
- [95:50]
Zach Lowe
There's.
- [95:51]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Go Blue. There we go. Yeah. I mean, it's just. I'm very comfortable. I'll say. Just like you said, I went to school out there. Not out there, but in the Big Ten, in the Midwest. So it's just a comfort level for me every time I go out there and play against either. It could be Indiana, Minnesota, or, you know, any team out there. So just fun and exciting just to be able to play in front of Michigan fans.
- [96:21]
Chris Ryan
Speaking of, Michigan just won the national title.
- [96:24]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah. Came this close in the frozen four, but it's okay.
- [96:28]
Guest Analyst
Congratulations.
- [96:29]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Congratulations.
- [96:31]
Chris Ryan
That was a good game. I watched that. I watched that the other day at the bar. Not the Michigan, the Denver, Wisconsin final. Very exciting game.
- [96:37]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
It was very exciting. Yeah. Yeah.
- [96:39]
Chris Ryan
Do you consider yourselves on the 2013 Michigan team, the true national champions? How does one reckon with Louisville having its title vacated?
- [96:50]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Listen, I mean, if Trey Bergen didn't call for the foul on that clean block, I'm pretty sure that we would be national champions.
- [96:57]
Chris Ryan
Okay. I mean, but you don't. You don't claim it.
- [96:59]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
No.
- [97:00]
Chris Ryan
Okay, that's fair. You didn't win.
- [97:02]
Zach Lowe
You didn't win the game.
- [97:03]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
No.
- [97:04]
Chris Ryan
Do you claim. So Tim obviously played for Detroit last year. Very exciting first round series with the Knicks. The pivotal game.
- [97:12]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I know what's about to be the
- [97:14]
Chris Ryan
pivotal game is game four in Detroit. Tim Hardaway takes a corner three. I think you're down by one. I think you're down one.
- [97:21]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Damn ref. Man.
- [97:22]
Chris Ryan
Josh Hart. I believe Josh Hart made some contact with you.
- [97:25]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Oh, he definitely did.
- [97:28]
Chris Ryan
No call. And all you got to do is make two out of three. I trust you to make three out of three, but, like, you know, let's get a little margin.
- [97:34]
Zach Lowe
Fair.
- [97:35]
Chris Ryan
You're still going to win the game. Like, have you. First of all, have you talked to Josh about that? Has he admitted to you that was a foul?
- [97:42]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I haven't talked to Josh yet, but
- [97:44]
Guest Analyst
I mean, have you talked to Josh at all?
- [97:49]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I think I talked to JB Though Brunson? I think so, but. Oh, I mean, it wasn't called, man. But I mean, it should have been, but it wasn't called. But that was definitely a pivotal game that could have swung the series.
- [98:03]
Chris Ryan
But yeah, obviously you've ended up in a great spot. Did you expect to be a Piston this year when that season ended in the way you guys were going?
- [98:12]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Oh, I thought, I thought it was somewhat of like an unfinished business type situation. I'm not gonna sit here and lie about it. Like, we went there and, you know, helped turn that franchise back around and got him into the playoff picture. So just moving forward, you know, you're thinking as a player and as a competitor that you want to go back and try to get things done the right way and get off to a better start. But, you know, hey, they're doing their thing over there. I'm happy for them.
- [98:41]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. You're not surprised that bad, right, that they develop like this?
- [98:43]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
No, not at all. Especially with a coach like jb, you
- [98:46]
Chris Ryan
know, he's a hard ass.
- [98:48]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yes, he is.
- [98:49]
Chris Ryan
He's hard ass on the refs too.
- [98:51]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Oh, very.
- [98:52]
Chris Ryan
How's da with the refs? More polite. Nah, nah, the refs have it hard, man. These coaches are in their ear all the time. Yeah, they do. But you know, your guy Nick Nurse is in there all the time, all day.
- [99:06]
Guest Analyst
It's all, all game. It's relentless.
- [99:08]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [99:09]
Chris Ryan
Have you guys already started? I assume you have prepping for Minnesota or was today an off day? Like what's, what's. Have you started watching film? What's going on?
- [99:18]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean, today was, you know, last game of the season was yesterday, so he wanted to give us time with our friends and family. So he gave us a day off. But yeah, we get back to work tomorrow.
- [99:28]
Chris Ryan
Okay. So we went through the history of the Nuggets and the Wolves. You also have played the Wolves in a recent playoff series with Dallas.
- [99:37]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah.
- [99:37]
Chris Ryan
Do you think that is helpful for you? I mean, like a lot of the players are still there. Like, did you, did you get. Is that series still in your brain rattling around?
- [99:45]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, for the most part it is. It was, it was a. It was a weird, I would say series in a way. I mean, they had. It could have gone either way. And you have a guy like Luka that goes down and makes big shot after big shot down the stretch over Gobert and you got Kyrie Irving and the Anthony Edwards duo after. And I think they beat, they beat you guys that year. And then he said after the game he Had Kyrie or something like that. And then it was like a duel between them too. So it was. It was just a weird series going into it, but just being able to experience it and lock in and see the preparation. Yeah.
- [100:26]
Chris Ryan
So you guys remember the Luca shot over Gobert, where Luca said. I mean, that's one of the nastiest bits of trash talk you will ever see.
- [100:34]
Guest Analyst
Luca barely qualified. It's like more like harassment. It wasn't even like trash talk.
- [100:40]
Chris Ryan
So I rewind, watched it. I was like, let me see where Tim is during that shot. Cuz I couldn't remember who's on the floor, who's not. And you were behind. You're like second. You're standing on a chair.
- [100:47]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I'm standing on the chair looking at the shot.
- [100:50]
Chris Ryan
So I, I couldn't find you at first. And then I saw you, you have your hands on Maxi Kleba's shoulders watching the shot. The shot goes in and you're hopping around like a kid. Yeah. Like, what is. And then Luka's going crazy. Like, what is the aftermath of a moment like that? Like, that's game two, right? You go up two zero, I think at that point in the series.
- [101:07]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, I believe so.
- [101:08]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. What is like, do you even talk to him about that shot? Or you like, do you watch it on YouTube? Like, what's the aftermath of a moment like that?
- [101:17]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Get ready for game three.
- [101:18]
Chris Ryan
That's it. Really?
- [101:19]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah. I mean, you. You're happy and excited, but you got to get a defensive stop and you got to get ready for game three. Man. There's no more, no celebrating in between the series.
- [101:27]
Guest Analyst
I was always curious, like, when you're about to go into a playoff run, will you like, watch the play in games this week?
- [101:33]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I will.
- [101:34]
Guest Analyst
Like, you'll. You watch other series while you're kind of also getting prepped for whatever the next game you guys have?
- [101:39]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah. It gets you motivated, it gets you excited, and also gives you an idea of how the refs are going to call these games. So you'll see some refs let people get away with some things, and then there'll be some refs that will call the game really tight. So it's a good indicator of how they're going to be reffing these playoff games.
- [102:02]
Chris Ryan
You were in the finals with that Mavs team against Boston. Did you learn anything from that? Was the finals like, starkly different than even the conference finals, like, as an
- [102:12]
Zach Lowe
experience to live, or was it just
- [102:14]
Chris Ryan
like, it's just basketball.
- [102:16]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean, it was just Basketball. But those lights were brighter. I would say that for the most part it was fun to experience it. I mean especially I mean going into the Garden. TD Garden and playing against those guys, I mean and seeing all the banners up there, it was. It was pretty insane for the most part. So. Yeah.
- [102:37]
Chris Ryan
Who was your favorite team growing up? Whatever team your dad was on.
- [102:40]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Whatever team my dad was on. The Miami Heat though for sure.
- [102:43]
Chris Ryan
There you go. That was a badass team.
- [102:46]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
That was. They had a great squad. Dan Marley, Jamal Mashburn, Shawn Leonard, Alonzo mourning, Ike Austin, P.J. brown. P.J.
- [102:56]
Adam Mares
brown.
- [102:57]
Chris Ryan
Charlie. You know who remembers P.J. brown? Charlie Ward remembers P.J. brown for what he found. Flip disaster.
- [103:01]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Everybody knows the whole New York Knicks.
- [103:03]
Guest Analyst
I think Run TMC was my first like non Sixers favorite team. You know like playing with the Warriors.
- [103:10]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, yeah.
- [103:11]
Chris Ryan
NBA Jam. My team is Chris Mullen and Tim Hardaway. That's just bombing threes. Just bombing threes all day long. And I didn't remember your dad played for the Nuggets.
- [103:21]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, he had a quick little stint here.
- [103:23]
Chris Ryan
Like did you remember that? Honestly?
- [103:26]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I mean I remember because I was in Miami and I was watching the game when they were playing against the match and he threw the damn TV on the court. Court
- [103:36]
Chris Ryan
fair. Well, look man, it's you. You've had an awesome season. Well actually one thing. Have you. This is a little bit of an unfair question. I'm going to just say that in advance. Have you had the conversation with Bruce Brown about signing a one year deal with the Nuggets, getting paid more money somewhere else and then having to find your way back to basketball near Vana and Denver? Have you guys signed talked about that. Cuz he took a wayward route back to Yic.
- [104:02]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
He took a 14 route for sure.
- [104:04]
Chris Ryan
Staring at you might be staring at something similar. Not that you want to go there, but I just think it be a funny conversation.
- [104:08]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Yeah, I mean I've talked to him about that. I mean not only myself but everybody.
- [104:16]
Chris Ryan
They were. They were be. When they won the title they were begging. Brucey B. Brucy B. S got to stay. Brucy B is coming back.
- [104:22]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
If Bruce was got the hell out.
- [104:26]
Chris Ryan
Bruce De B was like $24 million a year. Look what that's for the time. That's a different time right now. The playoffs are going to start. You guys are playing Minnesota. You've had an unbelievable year. It's been super fun to watch.
- [104:39]
Adam Mares
Thank you.
- [104:44]
Chris Ryan
I want to thank you for coming out. Thanks. These fans are all so Stoked to see you. I know it's busy, so thanks for coming out and just good luck in the playoffs.
- [104:51]
Guest Analyst
Good luck.
- [104:52]
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Thank you, guys.
- [104:53]
Chris Ryan
Jim Hardaway Jr. Look at that guy. He starts the playoffs in, like, well, six days or something, so he's got some time.
- [105:09]
Guest Analyst
I like that he's gonna watch for refs.
- [105:12]
Chris Ryan
That was insightful. Like, I. I like, I don't watch
- [105:15]
Zach Lowe
for the refs, but I don't have to worry about the refs.
- [105:18]
Chris Ryan
Does anybody? Is there a team that's like, don't. Scott Foster. Is there one fan base who's like,
- [105:23]
Guest Analyst
by the Thunder or like, yeah, he's our guy. We have so many picks. We love Scott Foster.
- [105:32]
Chris Ryan
I would love. Yeah, so much. I would love to see a sign in the stands like, Scott Foster. I flew all the way from Taiwan for this game. Scott Foster, sign this thing. Okay, we're going to wrap this up. Thank you to New Era for sponsoring the show. They're awesome. You guys all know New. You are wearing a New Era hat currently Oakland A's. Thank you to you guys for coming out. It's like crazy to me that anyone cares what any of us have to say about you.
- [105:59]
Guest Analyst
Thank you so much.
- [106:03]
Chris Ryan
You are spending your time listening to basketball nonsense and Tim Hardaway Jr. Who actually knows what the hell he's talking about. So I appreciate that. I appreciate all the jerseys in the crowd. Thank you again to New Era. And we're going to wrap it up like this. What was your finals prediction before the season, if you had one and be honest, just pretend all these people are not here. What would your finals prediction be now? Philly versus who?
- [106:33]
Guest Analyst
My finals prediction before the season, if I remember correctly, was Thunder Celtics. No, not Thunder Celtics. Sorry.
- [106:39]
Chris Ryan
If you picked Thunder Celtics, that would have been like.
- [106:42]
Guest Analyst
It was Thunder Knicks. Sorry. And the finals prediction now is. Is Thunder Celtics.
- [106:54]
Chris Ryan
I like that we're going to end
- [106:55]
Zach Lowe
this on a good note with the crowd.
- [106:57]
Guest Analyst
Do you understand how hard it is for me to say all those words together, like, sound like I'm happy about it?
- [107:02]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. Would you even. Would you just. Would you hate watch that? Is that hate watching for you?
- [107:07]
Guest Analyst
You know what? I might watch, like, True Detective Season two over that and I just be like, let's run it back. It's more upbeat.
- [107:14]
Chris Ryan
I don't have a hate. I don't have a hate watch. The concept of hate watching is, like, foreign to me. Why would you watch something that you hate but people do it?
- [107:21]
Guest Analyst
You haven't watched season five of Yellowstone, obviously.
- [107:23]
Chris Ryan
No, Too violent. For my wife, I think. I don't think we could do it. My preseason finals prediction was Thunder over Knicks. I am forever bound by that prediction. But I asked myself the question if I had to change it, if the basketball gods gave me permission to change it now, I would also say Thunder
- [107:41]
Zach Lowe
over Celtics is my pick.
- [107:42]
Chris Ryan
I will say this, I will say this. It's only because they're the number one seed. They have home court, they're. They have 13 awesome players. Their defense is hellacious. But if the basketball gods are just, we are going to get Denver, San Antonio and the Nuggets can win that series. And if the basketball gods are just whoever faces Oklahoma City, those team look, we like Denver almost beat him last year. The spurs beat him four out of five.
- [108:09]
Guest Analyst
We need the Rockets to man up. Come on guys, just, just like have the peace talks. Just put it together. Just give the Thunder a series, please.
- [108:19]
Chris Ryan
Despite the fact that we're both picking the Thunder. It's the easy pick, it's the chalk pick. I, I am just bracing myself and I hope you are all bracing yourselves because there's a potential for these three teams to engage in, in like some super special basketball. Like they are three incredibly high level teams with three historically anomalous players in Shay and Wemby and Joker. And I do really believe truly that either the 21 Nuggets or 22 Nuggets are at least in the finals one of those years if not winning another trophy, which changes everything. Maybe this is the year. But either way like buckle up because it starts with Minnesota. You guys have seen that twice. And just like I can't believe that eight years later after I came to see this third year curiosity was 22 years old. All this stuff has happened and you guys like what a time in Denver sports. Broncos are good. The Nuggets have an all time great player.
- [109:15]
Guest Analyst
Rocky's killing it.
- [109:17]
Chris Ryan
Rocky. So I hope you guys get an awesome playoffs. And I'll say this, I hope I'm back here in May and June watching some conference finals or finals games. Anyway, that's it. Thank you. Thank you to new era. Thank you to Chris Ryan, the MVP of the ringer. Thank you all for coming out. Go Nuggets. Why not go Nuggets?
- [109:52]
Zach Lowe
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